Re: [Repeater-Builder] An advocate for a little audio compression
On Aug 9, 2009, at 9:07 PM, skipp025 wrote: re: An advocate for a little audio compression. Yeah, I know a decent number of you are in-stone same-in to same-out repeater audio levels types. However, I've changed my opinion. You're a brave man to say it, Skipp. Here's my problem with it. Let's just say there's a very large linked repeater system that decided MANY years ago that they could fix the incoming audio from their IRLP link from BADLY CONFIGURED IRLP NODES by adding a commercial compressor-limiter in-line. I won't say who or where, since I like the folks running it and have ZERO beefs with them. I just need to use them as an example of where compression/limiting is BAD NEWS. However, let's also just say that I've called them from MULTIPLE IRLP nodes I've set up PERFECTLY with a service monitor and swept for audio response, and they ALWAYS complain about whatever it is they're hearing on their end -- after their compressor-limiter. Hey guess what folks. The audio left here JUST FINE... someone on that end decided to muck around with it. Not much I can do about that. What does this phenomenon actually lead to? I don't know. Maybe an idea below... I know my nodes are done right, and I know they have a LOT of other nodes connected to them that sound like ass so they tried to fix it. But, instead of asking those folks to fix their nodes, they tried a fix on their end, and broke things for those of us sending proper levels and audio. If they'd put in a way to TURN IT OFF, they'd hear what a properly set up IRLP node is supposed to sound like. Do I care? Not really. But the experience of that problem over the years, has just entrenched me further in the what comes in is what goes out camp. Do I realize that the vast majority of folks setting up IRLP nodes don't bother setting levels CORRECTLY to a network standard? Oh heck, yes. I rant about that at least once a year on the IRLP list... to mostly deaf ears. So I say, sure... compress away on a local repeater only. But please keep the compressed audio the hell away from outbound links to others... and away from the incoming link audio too. And always provide a way for the USERS to turn it off, just to see if it's having a bad effect. Seems reasonable, doesn't it? I think that's a fair opinion to all. Compress the snot out of local traffic if you want... but please send the rest of us something that sounds like what your users put in out any links, especially IP-based ones. Otherwise you run the risk of really bugging those of us who DID set levels and test audio, by creating a new problem the users on the far end think is OUR problem. What do you think Skipp? Is that a fair point to make? Links to other people's systems shouldn't include compression. Now... the reality is... some repeaters do it anyway... hard to stop it from going out. I can almost always tell ya when someone's on a MODERN (not MICOR) Motorola repeater by listening to their audio coming out of my IRLP node(s). In fact, with the audio set up correctly on an IRLP node, it's downright easy to tell there's a Bat- Wing somewhere on the other end of the link. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X n...@natetech.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor cos question
Did you put a pull-up resistor on the collector of the transistor? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Nick w7...@sbcglobal.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 1:32 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor cos question I have a micor Station , I did the mod for the cos on the audio sq board . I have 9.6v no signal , with signal 0 volts. I need o volts no signal and 5 volts or more for signal. I did the invert logic mod , with the 10 k npn 2n transiter not enough voltage less than 1 volt. Any Ideas ? Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement Caps. for Motorola Micor Pwr supplies
CDE Capacitors: http://www.cde.com/ All major distributors (Mouser, DigiKey, Allied, Newark, Future, Arrow) carry these USA made products -- BUT no specific distributor based in Hawaii. Need mounting hardware for the new capacitor styles? http://www.cde.com/catalogs/hardware.pdf Join CDE's Laird Macomber for a 15 minute webcast demystifying capacitor selection with these highpoints: a.. Realistic performance expectations b.. Typical power electronics applications c.. Capacitor selection keys for success d.. CDE expected life calculator for optimizing your design. e.. Review of screw terminal, flatpack and snap-in capacitor choices. Enjoy the experience of updating your bus capacitor design skills with this web cast. http://www.eetechbrief.com/login.php?event_id=77pro=hearst
[Repeater-Builder] Re: 2M Vertical Dipoles
If you want Laird / Antenex does make a 2 and 4 dipole array for the 2 meter band the part number is YDA1362 for a 2 dipole 136-150 antenna and YDA1364 for the 4 dipole antenna. They don't come with a mast pipe like the cushcraft antennas from long ago. They have a YDA2004 for 200-225 MHZ and a YDA4304 for 430-450 MHZ. They all come with the dipoles and the harness and you supply the mast pipe or it can be ordered with the antenna. I am ordering one of the YDA1362 to check out how they work. Now that amateur line of Cushcraft has been absorbed by MFJ it will be interesting to see what happens to the line of Cushcraft antennas. Paul R. Dumdie Jr. 73 W9DWP/R IRLP-NODE-4455 443.025/2A 145.270/1B/1Z/NAC-293 ARC-Radio-8 KCARES KCAPS HERD546 EX WB9QWZ WQGG738-462.725 AAR5CU/T www.riflesandradios.com www.theherd.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 2M Vertical Dipoles
On this same topic of the mast-less Antennex/Laird dipole arrays, has anyone attempted to top mount these from a fiberglass mast to minimize interaction with the normal steel pole? I have quite a few surplus fiberglass poles left that would likely work, even for side mounting on 1/2 wave spacing from the tower... On that same note, does anyone have construction plans for a dipole array (not necessarily folded dipoles)? I remember seeing a set of plans somewhere quite a while ago - we're thinking of constructing one but encasing the dipoles in fiberglass or PVC to try to protect from the weather and debris at our site (top of a large farm field)... 73, AJ, K6LOR On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Paul Dumdie w9...@sbcglobal.net wrote: If you want Laird / Antenex does make a 2 and 4 dipole array for the 2 meter band the part number is YDA1362 for a 2 dipole 136-150 antenna and YDA1364 for the 4 dipole antenna. They don't come with a mast pipe like the cushcraft antennas from long ago. They have a YDA2004 for 200-225 MHZ and a YDA4304 for 430-450 MHZ. They all come with the dipoles and the harness and you supply the mast pipe or it can be ordered with the antenna. I am ordering one of the YDA1362 to check out how they work. Now that amateur line of Cushcraft has been absorbed by MFJ it will be interesting to see what happens to the line of Cushcraft antennas. Paul R. Dumdie Jr. 73 W9DWP/R IRLP-NODE-4455 443.025/2A 145.270/1B/1Z/NAC-293 ARC-Radio-8 KCARES KCAPS HERD546 EX WB9QWZ WQGG738-462.725 AAR5CU/T www.riflesandradios.com www.theherd.com
[Repeater-Builder] SM50 440 mod
Trying to get a UHF SM50 M44DCG20A2AAA down to 440. Already tried the shift method without success. Searched Google high and low with little success. There was a few threads on the boards about moving this down. Dropped and few emails with out a return. I've read on Batlabs on moving the SM50 to cover the entire band limits on VHF. Nothing on UHF. Can this radio go down to 440? Any help would move this project off my bench and desk. Thanks. Tony
[Repeater-Builder] Notch Cavities + 600KHz Repeater = Work?
Was just curious as to if folks have gotten Notch cavities to work ok with a 600khz split. Have 4 in Rx leg 4 in TX leg. According to the analyzer, each bank has a 90dB notch. Double shielded cable throughout (RG-9). Just about pulled all my hair out over the last couple of weeks, and still have desense issues. Even tried another repeater, just to see if it was still there, yep it is. (was actually a bit worse than the Quantar, but it uses cheesy cables for RX (TKR-720)). Did find something interesting inside the Quantar tho, the RX cable that screws into the RX filter housing had a problem. They use a crimped Mini-UHF, and the section that got crimped actually rotated freely around the piece that has the center conductor in it. Nice rotatable cable, but don't think that it was intended to do that! Soldered the two together. Thanks, Tim W5FN
Re: [Repeater-Builder] SM50 440 mod
I used the batlabs article: http://www.batlabs.com/sm50.html and modified my codeplug file to make mine go down to 438 It works pretty good down to 440, but it starts dropping off pretty quickly below that. On Aug 10, 2009, at 5:47 AM, tonyn2mft wrote: Trying to get a UHF SM50 M44DCG20A2AAA down to 440. Already tried the shift method without success. Searched Google high and low with little success. There was a few threads on the boards about moving this down. Dropped and few emails with out a return. I've read on Batlabs on moving the SM50 to cover the entire band limits on VHF. Nothing on UHF. Can this radio go down to 440? Any help would move this project off my bench and desk. Thanks. Tony -- Cort Buffington H: +1-785-838-3034 M: +1-785-865-7206 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor cos question
I did only the one mod which was . 9.6v to a 10k resistor to the base, emitter went to ground, collector to the controller. This mod was on the better duplexing for a micor station on repeater builder site. Nick w7nik 775-626-7605 Web site-- http://geocities.com/w7...@sbcglobal.net/ When all else fails . Amateur Radio. From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 4:13:32 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor cos question Did you put a pull-up resistor on the collector of the transistor? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Nick w7...@sbcglobal. net To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 1:32 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor cos question I have a micor Station , I did the mod for the cos on the audio sq board . I have 9.6v no signal , with signal 0 volts. I need o volts no signal and 5 volts or more for signal. I did the invert logic mod , with the 10 k npn 2n transiter not enough voltage less than 1 volt. Any Ideas ? - - -- Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Notch Cavities + 600KHz Repeater = Work?
Can you tell us more about the model of your duplexer? When you say notch is it: A. Flat pack mobile style notch only duplexer with a 3MHz minimum split. B. Wacom BpBr cavites such as WP-639. C. Motorola style notch only small cans. Also if you have a VHF circulator you can replace the tee between the 2 sides of the duplexer and antenna for an additional 20dB of isolation. On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 9:07 AM, tahrens301tahr...@swtexas.net wrote: Was just curious as to if folks have gotten Notch cavities to work ok with a 600khz split. Have 4 in Rx leg 4 in TX leg. According to the analyzer, each bank has a 90dB notch. Double shielded cable throughout (RG-9). Just about pulled all my hair out over the last couple of weeks, and still have desense issues. Even tried another repeater, just to see if it was still there, yep it is. (was actually a bit worse than the Quantar, but it uses cheesy cables for RX (TKR-720)). Did find something interesting inside the Quantar tho, the RX cable that screws into the RX filter housing had a problem. They use a crimped Mini-UHF, and the section that got crimped actually rotated freely around the piece that has the center conductor in it. Nice rotatable cable, but don't think that it was intended to do that! Soldered the two together. Thanks, Tim W5FN Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 2M Vertical Dipoles
If you mount the array on a non-conductive pole, won't you then have to model the effects of interaction with the outside of the coax shields of the feedline harness that would normally be insignificant when attached to the side of a conductive pole? - Original Message - From: AJ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 2M Vertical Dipoles On this same topic of the mast-less Antennex/Laird dipole arrays, has anyone attempted to top mount these from a fiberglass mast to minimize interaction with the normal steel pole? I have quite a few surplus fiberglass poles left that would likely work, even for side mounting on 1/2 wave spacing from the tower...
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor cos question
I might have to add 12 volts into a 10k to the collector. Thanks to a friend in our club , he suggested to use the NHRC cas inverter . I did not want to that with out direction. I don't smoke anymore ::)) Nick w7nik 775-626-7605 Web site-- http://geocities.com/w7...@sbcglobal.net/ When all else fails . Amateur Radio. From: Nick W7NIK w7...@sbcglobal.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17:11 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor cos question I did only the one mod which was . 9.6v to a 10k resistor to the base, emitter went to ground, collector to the controller. This mod was on the better duplexing for a micor station on repeater builder site. Nick w7nik 775-626-7605 Web site-- http://geocities. com/w7nik@ sbcglobal. net/ When all else fails . Amateur Radio. From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner. com To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 4:13:32 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor cos question Did you put a pull-up resistor on the collector of the transistor? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Nick w7...@sbcglobal. net To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 1:32 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor cos question I have a micor Station , I did the mod for the cos on the audio sq board . I have 9.6v no signal , with signal 0 volts. I need o volts no signal and 5 volts or more for signal. I did the invert logic mod , with the 10 k npn 2n transiter not enough voltage less than 1 volt. Any Ideas ? - - -- Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor cos question
Nick W7NIK wrote: I did only the one mod which was . 9.6v to a 10k resistor to the base, emitter went to ground, collector to the controller. This mod was on the better duplexing for a micor station on repeater builder site. That part of the modification is not intended to drive a controller - it is intended to drive internal cards after doing the modifications suggested for better muting. You simply need a logic inverter: http://www.repeater-builder.com/pix/cosswitch.gif Disregard the (mobile only) note - this circuit is what you need to drive a controller - whether or not you have a Mobile or Station. Kevin
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 2M Vertical Dipoles
Paul Plack wrote: If you mount the array on a non-conductive pole, won't you then have to model the effects of interaction with the outside of the coax shields of the feedline harness that would normally be insignificant when attached to the side of a conductive pole? Be careful hereSome dipole arrays, like the cushcraft, requires a metallic support pole to obtain/maintain the 50 ohm feedpoint impedance. Kevin
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor cos question
Thanks Kevin , That mobile note threw me off . I did see that mod. I will give that a try thanks again. Your mods are very helpful. Nick w7nik 775-626-7605 Web site-- http://geocities.com/w7...@sbcglobal.net/ When all else fails . Amateur Radio. From: Kevin Custer kug...@kuggie.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:13:14 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor cos question Nick W7NIK wrote: I did only the one mod which was . 9.6v to a 10k resistor to the base, emitter went to ground, collector to the controller. This mod was on the better duplexing for a micor station on repeater builder site. That part of the modification is not intended to drive a controller - it is intended to drive internal cards after doing the modifications suggested for better muting. You simply need a logic inverter: http://www.repeater -builder. com/pix/cosswitc h.gif Disregard the (mobile only) note - this circuit is what you need to drive a controller - whether or not you have a Mobile or Station. Kevin
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Notch Cavities + 600KHz Repeater = Work?
Hi Dcflu7x, It's a DB products SP-1894. Can't get any info on it from anywhere. Each of the 8 cans have the approx dimensions of 5 x 21. A single screw-type shaft in the center, and one SO-239 sticking out of the top of the can. No variable caps, or anything else on the cans. Each can has an RG-9 jumper between each 'T'. The male portion of the 'T' screws down into the can. The 4 cans on the 147.7 side are strictly 4 cans in series. The 4 cans on the 147.1 side also have an additional 'T' between cans, and from that dangles a short stub. The stubs actually pull up the high side of the notch. Without them, the cans exhibit high loss at 600khz above the notch. With them, the total loss is about 2 - 2.5dB. The duplexer was originally in the 166 range, then pulled down to the 154 range, which was what they were set for when I got them. Tuning: First I used the spectrum analyzer with tracking generator to move each notch on top of each other at the desired frequency. Next, I used my service monitor to generate a +10dBm signal which I fed through each set of 4 cans. On the opposite side, I hooked up the spectrum analyzer tuned out the signal. It told me it was between -92 -95 dB on each set of cans. I also put a 50 ohm load on the port that I was not testing. I think they are tweaked as good as they can be. Thanks, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, DCFluX dcf...@... wrote: Can you tell us more about the model of your duplexer? When you say notch is it: A. Flat pack mobile style notch only duplexer with a 3MHz minimum split. B. Wacom BpBr cavites such as WP-639. C. Motorola style notch only small cans. Also if you have a VHF circulator you can replace the tee between the 2 sides of the duplexer and antenna for an additional 20dB of isolation. On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 9:07 AM, tahrens301tahr...@... wrote: Was just curious as to if folks have gotten Notch cavities to work ok with a 600khz split. Have 4 in Rx leg 4 in TX leg. According to the analyzer, each bank has a 90dB notch. Double shielded cable throughout (RG-9). Just about pulled all my hair out over the last couple of weeks, and still have desense issues. Even tried another repeater, just to see if it was still there, yep it is. (was actually a bit worse than the Quantar, but it uses cheesy cables for RX (TKR-720)). Did find something interesting inside the Quantar tho, the RX cable that screws into the RX filter housing had a problem. They use a crimped Mini-UHF, and the section that got crimped actually rotated freely around the piece that has the center conductor in it. Nice rotatable cable, but don't think that it was intended to do that! Soldered the two together. Thanks, Tim W5FN Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Notch Cavities + 600KHz Repeater = Work?
Ok, if they are the type with the variable coupling loop you should have 2 coupling loop holes per cavity, just one has a round hole cover. If so take 2 cavities and transplant a coupling loop to one of them to make 1 band pass cavity. Make another one for the RX side Place the band pass cavities closest to the repeater in each leg. So you have 1 band pass and 2 rejects and then the tee. If that doesn't work you might try converting them to BpBr. This would be done by adding a very high quality piston trimmer such as a johansen cap to the coupling loop, in series with the grounded end. Or a BNC jack going to a piece of coax that can be trimmed to form a gimmic capacitor. I like to salvage the capacitor from surplus Mastr 2 ICOMs that are EC. But those have to be soldered in and I'm not sure what material DB cans use on the rotatable whosis. The inner cavity jumpers should be 1/4 wavelength electrically, so you have to calculate velocity factor of your cables. 4 cavities should give you 80-85dB. and I like to use a circulator as the tee to the antenna which brings it up to the 100dB range.. But if you don't have one, try just 4 cavities and if you still have desense try 6. On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:21 AM, tahrens301tahr...@swtexas.net wrote: Hi Dcflu7x, It's a DB products SP-1894. Can't get any info on it from anywhere. Each of the 8 cans have the approx dimensions of 5 x 21. A single screw-type shaft in the center, and one SO-239 sticking out of the top of the can. No variable caps, or anything else on the cans. Each can has an RG-9 jumper between each 'T'. The male portion of the 'T' screws down into the can. The 4 cans on the 147.7 side are strictly 4 cans in series. The 4 cans on the 147.1 side also have an additional 'T' between cans, and from that dangles a short stub. The stubs actually pull up the high side of the notch. Without them, the cans exhibit high loss at 600khz above the notch. With them, the total loss is about 2 - 2.5dB. The duplexer was originally in the 166 range, then pulled down to the 154 range, which was what they were set for when I got them. Tuning: First I used the spectrum analyzer with tracking generator to move each notch on top of each other at the desired frequency. Next, I used my service monitor to generate a +10dBm signal which I fed through each set of 4 cans. On the opposite side, I hooked up the spectrum analyzer tuned out the signal. It told me it was between -92 -95 dB on each set of cans. I also put a 50 ohm load on the port that I was not testing. I think they are tweaked as good as they can be. Thanks, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, DCFluX dcf...@... wrote: Can you tell us more about the model of your duplexer? When you say notch is it: A. Flat pack mobile style notch only duplexer with a 3MHz minimum split. B. Wacom BpBr cavites such as WP-639. C. Motorola style notch only small cans. Also if you have a VHF circulator you can replace the tee between the 2 sides of the duplexer and antenna for an additional 20dB of isolation. On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 9:07 AM, tahrens301tahr...@... wrote: Was just curious as to if folks have gotten Notch cavities to work ok with a 600khz split. Have 4 in Rx leg 4 in TX leg. According to the analyzer, each bank has a 90dB notch. Double shielded cable throughout (RG-9). Just about pulled all my hair out over the last couple of weeks, and still have desense issues. Even tried another repeater, just to see if it was still there, yep it is. (was actually a bit worse than the Quantar, but it uses cheesy cables for RX (TKR-720)). Did find something interesting inside the Quantar tho, the RX cable that screws into the RX filter housing had a problem. They use a crimped Mini-UHF, and the section that got crimped actually rotated freely around the piece that has the center conductor in it. Nice rotatable cable, but don't think that it was intended to do that! Soldered the two together. Thanks, Tim W5FN Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 2M Vertical Dipoles
Hmm, that would make sense... Back to the drawing board :) On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Kevin Custer kug...@kuggie.com wrote: Paul Plack wrote: If you mount the array on a non-conductive pole, won't you then have to model the effects of interaction with the outside of the coax shields of the feedline harness that would normally be insignificant when attached to the side of a conductive pole? Be careful hereSome dipole arrays, like the cushcraft, requires a metallic support pole to obtain/maintain the 50 ohm feedpoint impedance. Kevin
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Notch Cavities + 600KHz Repeater = Work?
--- On Mon, 8/10/09, tahrens301 tahr...@swtexas.net wrote: From: tahrens301 tahr...@swtexas.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Notch Cavities + 600KHz Repeater = Work? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 1:21 PM Hi Dcflu7x, It's a DB products SP-1894. Can't get any info on it from anywhere. Each of the 8 cans have the approx dimensions of 5 x 21. A single screw-type shaft in the center, and one SO-239 sticking out of the top of the can. No variable caps, or anything else on the cans. Each can has an RG-9 jumper between each 'T'. The male portion of the 'T' screws down into the can. The 4 cans on the 147.7 side are strictly 4 cans in series. The 4 cans on the 147.1 side also have an additional 'T' between cans, and from that dangles a short stub. The stubs actually pull up the high side of the notch. Without them, the cans exhibit high loss at 600khz above the notch. With them, the total loss is about 2 - 2.5dB. The duplexer was originally in the 166 range, then pulled down to the 154 range, which was what they were set for when I got them. Did you change the coax lengths to match the change in frequency ?
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Notch Cavities + 600KHz Repeater = Work?
Hi Ralph, No, they were 10 as came from the factory for 166 mhz, so it didn't look like they were cut for anything in particular. DCflux - I started to do what you suggested... sounded like something else to try. Took the link out of the last can the loop wasn't soldered to the PL259 connection. Only a solder blob on the end of the pin. I could push on the link it would freely move on the pin. NOT GOOD! Think I'll pull them all out have a look - I found one like this earlier in the other side. Guess it was built on a Monday! haha Thanks, Tim
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Notch Cavities + 600KHz Repeater = Work?
I've actually seen that before on a Wacom. Go with silver bearing solder if you have it. On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 11:19 AM, tahrens301tahr...@swtexas.net wrote: Hi Ralph, No, they were 10 as came from the factory for 166 mhz, so it didn't look like they were cut for anything in particular. DCflux - I started to do what you suggested... sounded like something else to try. Took the link out of the last can the loop wasn't soldered to the PL259 connection. Only a solder blob on the end of the pin. I could push on the link it would freely move on the pin. NOT GOOD! Think I'll pull them all out have a look - I found one like this earlier in the other side. Guess it was built on a Monday! haha Thanks, Tim Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] SM50 440 mod
Yes they will play nice down there. I have had t many to count as links Full-Duplex and they will play nice to the 430Mhz without any modification other than the hacked software. Mike Mullarkey - Original Message - From: tonyn2mft tonyn2...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 4:47:15 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain Subject: [Repeater-Builder] SM50 440 mod Trying to get a UHF SM50 M44DCG20A2AAA down to 440. Already tried the shift method without success. Searched Google high and low with little success. There was a few threads on the boards about moving this down. Dropped and few emails with out a return. I've read on Batlabs on moving the SM50 to cover the entire band limits on VHF. Nothing on UHF. Can this radio go down to 440? Any help would move this project off my bench and desk. Thanks. Tony
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Hp 8921a test set
Hi guys just to finish off .the fault was the 2 amps in the input atten After these were replaced all tested ok . Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 Phone 0749922574 or 0409159932 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au ---Original Message--- From: kerinvale Date: 31/07/2009 01:31:06 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Hp 8921a test set I followed the unit test procedure and it failed on filter output detector output variable att,auto range att,duplex detector(no signal) Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 Phone 0749922574 or 0409159932 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au ---Original Message--- From: Scott Zimmerman Date: 31/07/2009 01:06:39 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Hp 8921a test set Any handheld or mobile radio will work. A scanner would even be appropriate. Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 kerinvale wrote: Ill try that .which is ht you refer to Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 Phone 0749922574 or 0409159932 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au http://www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au/ /---Original Message---/ /*From:*/ Scott Zimmerman mailto:n3...@repeater-builder.com /*Date:*/ 30/07/2009 11:08:31 /*To:*/ Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com /*Subject:*/ Re: [Repeater-Builder] Hp 8921a test set Ian, I did the same thing. (easy to do isn't it!!) I ran the internal tests before and after the repairs and there was a significant difference. That's what I did to be sure it was working OK. I must admit, it's probably not as good as sending it somewhere for calibration, but on a ham budget, it works OK enough. You could always hook your HT to the I/O port and check sensitivity then connect it to the duplex port and see if it's about the same. That's a REAL easy benchmark. Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 kerinvale wrote: I accidently hooked up my test leads to my 8921a wrong and introduced high Watts into the duplex out socket .Removed the a23 module and found the cr203 And cr501 burnt out in the duplex switch .I have replaced them and the unit Seems to be working again .Can anyone suggest simple ways to check the Duplex and ant in section to make sure there isn't any more parts damaged . Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 Phone 0749922574 or 0409159932 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au http://www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au/ http://www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.35/2271 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.35/2271 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Maxon sm4450sc
Hi guys .thanks for the replys .The fault was I had too much length between the radio and the ctcss decoder card .I have altered most of my repeaters to allow the maxons to decode the signal by itself and then it controls the transmitter by the maxon approved design with a bs170 fet .I have now developed a interface circuit that has no relays for switching audio .and the new design uses a 4066 audio IC to switch audio paths .It has reduced transmitting delays very well .Now the repeaters seem to work almost as soon as a signal comes in .One repeater decodes even if the signal is just below the mute .I need to find out how that one works.All in all very happy I have found the problem .Now I have repeaters with no ctcss breakup. Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 Phone 0749922574 or 0409159932 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au ---Original Message--- From: kerinvale Date: 11/07/2009 02:18:36 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Maxon sm4450sc Thanks for the reply Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 Phone 0749922574 or 0409159932 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au ---Original Message--- From: Razvan Daniel Date: 10/07/2009 21:57:50 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Maxon sm4450sc Hey, You can use the external card, just shield it as well as possible by placeing it into a metal grounded case and using double or triple shieldee coaxial condutors to link it to the radio. This wil prevent any interference from dispurbing the useful signals. This having said, please take into consideration that if the TX antenna is at least several meters away then you should check the feeder, connectors and antenna reflected wave, since this diturbance should not normlly happen in good configuration. I have also noticed that for some reason, the internal decoder takes a wihile to react to the carier CTSS signal. It may be a design glitch or it may be possible that a optional delay might exist via software. I never checked. For these reasons, I think the external card is best. Regards, Buie Daniel Razvan RADIOCOM Bihor 004 741 133740 buie.raz...@radiotelecomunicatii.ro www.radiotelecomunicatii.ro --- On Fri, 7/10/09, kerinvale kerin...@pacific.net.au wrote: From: kerinvale kerin...@pacific.net.au Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Maxon sm4450sc To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 4:35 AM Hi guys .I have a maxon sm4450sc that is setup for rx ctcss decode in a repeater and it is decoding ctcss ok but it only activates the call led when the signal is over the squelch level. I am wondering is there a way that the radio decoder can be on all the time so even if the signal is below the squelch the radio will activate the call led without affecting the audio squelch level. I tried to use ctcss external decoder card and they work great with direct connection to the receiver audio out from the detector but as I have found out recently with the cards outside the radio they are affected badly with rf when the transmitter is activated if the leads are too long so I have setup the radio to decode the ctcss and this is working well but it is slow to activate the repeater.I am trying to set the receiver up that it will decode as soon as the signal is present instead of it needing it to be over the squelch level before decoding. Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela. 4715 Phone 0749922574 or 0409159932 www.kerinvalecomaud io.com.au
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair R2B12 duplexer
That's what I did first but they do at least pretend they have no info left on this older model duplexer. But the typical Sinclair instruction leaflet (some are available for other models on repeater-builder and on Sinclair's website) doesn't reveal such info anyway. Duplexer manufacturers in general do guard everything as jealously as they can. 73, Martin --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Martin, The best place to get that information is from the company that built it. Contact Sinclair Technologies at 800-263-3275. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cruizzer77 Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:54 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair R2B12 duplexer Does anyone have technical info (i.e. tech drawings) or inside pics of these duplexers? I wonder how they do the shortening as there can't be a 1/4 wave resonator for 2m inside this 19 box... Regards Martin
[Repeater-Builder] Re: An advocate for a little audio compression
Nate, your comments about compression and bad-sounding audio coming in from IRLP just goes to show, at least in part, that improperly set-up compression/AGC sounds bad. For several years, I ran an Alesis 3630 on the audio coming in from IRLP and feeding our local repeater transmitter. I had it set for 3 second release (the slowest it would do), fastest attack it would do, around 12db of gain reduction, and around 6:1 ratio. It sounded absolutely fine, with no wierd stuff, no pumping, nothing obvious at all. Only consistent, good-level audio. It can work and sound great. And there's really nothing inherently different betweeen audio from IRLP and audio from your local receiver feeding your repeater transmitter. As I stated in an earlier post, the RC850 has internal AGC, and when properly set up, also works very well with few artifacts. I think where it begins to sound bad is when the release time gets too short. That's when any background noise instantly sucks-up between words, and quickly becomes ugly-sounding. Laryn K8TVZ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair R2B12 duplexer
Google Bob Morton .. he is an x Sinclair man .. he knows his stuff .. he might have the info on paper ,,. if not it might still be in his head .. as a lot of duplexers where his designs Rick On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 5:46 PM, cruizzer77atlant...@gmx.ch wrote: That's what I did first but they do at least pretend they have no info left on this older model duplexer. But the typical Sinclair instruction leaflet (some are available for other models on repeater-builder and on Sinclair's website) doesn't reveal such info anyway. Duplexer manufacturers in general do guard everything as jealously as they can. 73, Martin --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Martin, The best place to get that information is from the company that built it. Contact Sinclair Technologies at 800-263-3275. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cruizzer77 Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:54 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair R2B12 duplexer Does anyone have technical info (i.e. tech drawings) or inside pics of these duplexers? I wonder how they do the shortening as there can't be a 1/4 wave resonator for 2m inside this 19 box... Regards Martin
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: An advocate for a little audio compression
is a desktrac repeater capable of audio compression? - Original Message - From: Laryn Lohman lar...@hotmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: An advocate for a little audio compression Nate, your comments about compression and bad-sounding audio coming in from IRLP just goes to show, at least in part, that improperly set-up compression/AGC sounds bad. For several years, I ran an Alesis 3630 on the audio coming in from IRLP and feeding our local repeater transmitter. I had it set for 3 second release (the slowest it would do), fastest attack it would do, around 12db of gain reduction, and around 6:1 ratio. It sounded absolutely fine, with no wierd stuff, no pumping, nothing obvious at all. Only consistent, good-level audio. It can work and sound great. And there's really nothing inherently different betweeen audio from IRLP and audio from your local receiver feeding your repeater transmitter. As I stated in an earlier post, the RC850 has internal AGC, and when properly set up, also works very well with few artifacts. I think where it begins to sound bad is when the release time gets too short. That's when any background noise instantly sucks-up between words, and quickly becomes ugly-sounding. Laryn K8TVZ Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Notch Cavities + 600KHz Repeater = Work?
At 8/10/2009 09:07, you wrote: Was just curious as to if folks have gotten Notch cavities to work ok with a 600khz split. Have 4 in Rx leg 4 in TX leg. According to the analyzer, each bank has a 90dB notch. The big question is, what is the loss 600 kHz away from the notch? There are some notch-only duplexers like the DB-4048 that are made for 600 kHz spacing. Spec'd notch depth is only 80 dB which can be a bit short, especially for solid-state multiplied source TXs (as opposed to tube-type or PLL-sourced). Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Notch Cavities + 600KHz Repeater = Work?
At 8/10/2009 10:21, you wrote: Hi Dcflu7x, It's a DB products SP-1894. Can't get any info on it from anywhere. Each of the 8 cans have the approx dimensions of 5 x 21. A single screw-type shaft in the center, and one SO-239 sticking out of the top of the can. No variable caps, or anything else on the cans. Each can has an RG-9 jumper between each 'T'. The male portion of the 'T' screws down into the can. The 4 cans on the 147.7 side are strictly 4 cans in series. The 4 cans on the 147.1 side also have an additional 'T' between cans, and from that dangles a short stub. This sounds like a modified DB-4050. I don't understand why one side of the duplexer would have additional Ts. The specs on the DB-4050 are: notches -95 dB, passes -2.2 dB. Sounds close to what you're getting. The stubs actually pull up the high side of the notch. Without them, the cans exhibit high loss at 600khz above the notch. With them, the total loss is about 2 - 2.5dB. Bob NO6B
[Repeater-Builder] Update, Sinclair Q-202G (frankenstien series)
I talked to the guy that obtained the duplxers for our club and he confirmed my belief. Those 4 cans began life as 4 separate BpBr filters used on some offshore communications, possibly mobile telephone or phone patch. He was not certain. Anyway the high pass side worked great out of the box so to speak, but the lo pass was a booger. I had to change the parralell cap values on the tuning caps for the notches. I still don't have quite as good a notch as I have on the high pass pair, but it works well anyway. 73 de N5NPO Norm
RE: [Repeater-Builder] An advocate for a little audio compression
It's funny- on the most-used local 2m repeater, we don't have a problem with the majority of users, whose voice levels are fine. I think compression is necessary to cut back on a few users who 1) practically shout into the mike, or 2) have bumped up the deviation on their radios because they think that more deviation is better, or 3) are using a multiband radio with modulation still set as for HF, and don't realize that their excessive deviation is causing distortion in the repeater. In any case, it's a few users who are too loud, rather than a few users who are too soft. As a road-show sound engineer and recording-studio operator in an earlier life, I know the benefits of seamless compression. The primary rule is that the static level should have no gain or compression at all, so that the compression begins only when audio exceeds a certain level. An audio compressor is misapplied if it always brings up the noise level between words. My primary audio treatment device was a DBX 166, which also has a noise gate. The trick to using a noise gate properly is to set it so that it opens at the beginning of the first syllable. I spent a lot of time getting the levels and timing fine-tuned so that the compression and gating were undetectable. It can be done with quality equipment, but good audio processing equipment is not cheap. I have found that it is helpful to simply advise a user that he is too loud and needs to back away from the mike, or that he is barely audible and needs to speak up! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Plack Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 10:10 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] An advocate for a little audio compression Skipp, I generally agree, but it's not the fault of the user's voice. It's a lack of training in mic technique, sometimes combined with audio circuits that aren't easily user-accessible. Compression on the repeater eliminate's the user's need to get things right at the source, and one day, he's going to need to operate simplex. I've worked with broadcast compressors for many years, and agree they could play a useful role in repeater audio chains. But I always wanted to design one that was a little different, and digital control of an analog signal path seems like a good candidate. Specifically, I'd like to have something like a compressor with very fast attack and infinitely long release, immediately dropping gain as needed to accommodate voice peaks, but not releasing until COS dropped. This would essentially set the audio gain individually for each user at the start of a transmission, without any ongoing compression to create the obnoxious pumping artifact we all know and hate. The downsides would be additional background noise before the first syllable, and difficulty in distinguishing users with low audio from users with inadequate signal strength. Both would feature increased background noise as a symptom. Then again, IRLP users hand out S-meter reports from a thousand miles away, so maybe it doesn't matter...(sigh) Just running the audio gain 6-10 dB hotter into a fast limiter still allows great disparity in perceived loudness, but at least the guys with low audio can be heard. 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: skipp025 mailto:skipp...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:07 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] An advocate for a little audio compression ...a number of operators don't seem to have voices that drive their radios with adequate audio...Consider 6 to 10dB of audio compression in your repeater system... . http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=104168/grpspId=1705063108/msgId= 93195/stime=1249873641/nc1=4025373/nc2=5689702/nc3=5807838
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Update, Sinclair Q-202G (Frankenstein series)
Norm, I'm glad that you're getting that duplexer working. But, I am curious about those parallel capacitors. None of the factory-tuned Sinclair Q-202G duplexers I've seen had any capacitor in parallel with the Johanson tuning capacitors- even those made for the 2m band. The loop assemblies for the high-pass and low-pass cans are identical. Perhaps the previous owner added capacitors because the tuning caps were damaged. Or maybe the loop assemblies for a combiner were used in place of the correct BpBr loops. Are the interconnecting cables the correct length? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of NORM KNAPP Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 6:35 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Update, Sinclair Q-202G (Frankenstein series) I talked to the guy that obtained the duplxers for our club and he confirmed my belief. Those 4 cans began life as 4 separate BpBr filters used on some offshore communications, possibly mobile telephone or phone patch. He was not certain. Anyway the high pass side worked great out of the box so to speak, but the lo pass was a booger. I had to change the parralell cap values on the tuning caps for the notches. I still don't have quite as good a notch as I have on the high pass pair, but it works well anyway. 73 de N5NPO Norm
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Notch Cavities + 600KHz Repeater = Work?
Hi Bob, I was pretty curious about it as well, especially in the 'early days' of this project. Nobody seemed to know much about the stubs. If you are looking at the spec. analyzer trk gen, you see the notch. The left side goes down deep, then comes up on the right side of the notch. But, without the stubs, the right side doesn't come up as fast as the left side went down, hence more insertion loss. With the stubs, they got pulled right up. As far as your earlier question, the notches come up to the 0dB point well before the other frequency. They seem to be pretty tight. I guess I'm still looking for an answer to the original question. Do the notch cavities work @600khz spacing? I've always had the BpBr duplexers for ham stuff, I guess I've gotten a bit spoiled working with 4 5mHz splits! Thanks, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, n...@... wrote: At 8/10/2009 10:21, you wrote: Hi Dcflu7x, It's a DB products SP-1894. Can't get any info on it from anywhere. Each of the 8 cans have the approx dimensions of 5 x 21. A single screw-type shaft in the center, and one SO-239 sticking out of the top of the can. No variable caps, or anything else on the cans. Each can has an RG-9 jumper between each 'T'. The male portion of the 'T' screws down into the can. The 4 cans on the 147.7 side are strictly 4 cans in series. The 4 cans on the 147.1 side also have an additional 'T' between cans, and from that dangles a short stub. This sounds like a modified DB-4050. I don't understand why one side of the duplexer would have additional Ts. The specs on the DB-4050 are: notches -95 dB, passes -2.2 dB. Sounds close to what you're getting. The stubs actually pull up the high side of the notch. Without them, the cans exhibit high loss at 600khz above the notch. With them, the total loss is about 2 - 2.5dB. Bob NO6B
