[Repeater-Builder] LOW RF OUTPUT D43KXA7JA7BK
Hi,ok guys here's one for ya. i have a D43KXA7JA7BK that has low rf output, at 10.5v i can get 15-20 watts out about 5-7 amps draw at 13-14v i get 5-7 watts out about 4 amps draw in rss rf power and current adj does nothing no output when keyed from rss also i have recaped and checked for bad solder joints its like something is braking down at the higher voltage sometimes it will kick up to 45watts for a sec. but drop right back to 5-7 watts maybe final transistor,driver,pre driver,??? Help !!! i have no manual,schamitc,no info gong at it blind.. a scan of pa manual schamitc ?? would be nice if any one can help. Thank you for reading N8RTN.MIKE Also any one have paper manual i can buy?+shipping..must be cheap as iam layed off work
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Station question
I had to tune the 1st band pass and the second band pass. I did not know about the metal soldered cover that needs removed to allow tunning. I have about 019 watts on a 1 watt scale out the exciter . Thanks for the info . --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Captainlance captainla...@... wrote: no mods required, other than tuning. I have 2 on 441, both pout out rated power. check the regulated 12 volts to the tripler, the molex plugs on the interface board tend to be intermittent and /or resistive... the exciter board should be making about 350mw to 500 mw..if working correctly. lance n2HBA - Original Message - From: w7nikw7nik To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:30 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Station question I have a micor station 450-470 . I have .019 watts out the exciter after the 1st band pass tfd6373a. The tripler needs modified. The test meter 5 output is 34ma. Where can I find the mods for the tfe6153a tripler? The transmit freq is 441.850, I tried 445.550 element 1 watt with out tunning . I have narrowed it down to the tripler . Should I add some more wire to the turns on the 2nd band pass ?? Any help would be great . -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.101/2376 - Release Date: 09/16/09 11:21:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Station question
w7nikw7nik wrote: I had to tune the 1st band pass and the second band pass. I did not know about the metal soldered cover that needs removed to allow tunning. I have about 019 watts on a 1 watt scale out the exciter . Thanks for the info . This may seem obvious - but realize that the exciter in a UHF Micor Station runs at VHF. If you have a frequency sensitive RF meter, make sure you are looking for RF power at 1/3 your operating frequency. If you are having trouble getting 400 mW or so on your new frequency, take another element in the commercial VHF band and re-tune the exciter to make sure it is (still?) working correctly. The exciter makes 400 mW at 1/3 the transmitter operating frequency, then there are filters - which also operate at VHF, then is the tripler which makes about 1 - 2 watts at UHF. All stages should be re-tuned to insure PA saturation, otherwise the transmitter will be spurious. Hope this helps... Kevin Custer
Fw: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Station question
I'm most familiar with Maxtrac's with regards to less than full power operation, i.e. that they can produce spurs other undesirables when run that way. So other radios can have the same issues? I read that it is because when running below rated levels (anywhere in the tx chain) there exist impedance mismatches between stages, so things aren't running correctly. E.g. bandpass filters might be mismatched to active stages so they can't do what they're supposed to do. I'm thinking that most (all?) stages of an FM tx are running at saturation(?). We (repeater club) run our Maxtrac's at 4-10 Watts; I don't know if anyone has ever looked at spectrum of output for junque. Is there some better way of running at lower power w/o making RF crud? Thanks --John WB0EQ/VE6 --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Kevin Custer kug...@kuggie.com wrote: From: Kevin Custer kug...@kuggie.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Station question To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 8:44 AM w7nikw7nik wrote: I had to tune the 1st band pass and the second band pass. I did not know about the metal soldered cover that needs removed to allow tunning. I have about 019 watts on a 1 watt scale out the exciter . Thanks for the info . This may seem obvious - but realize that the exciter in a UHF Micor Station runs at VHF. If you have a frequency sensitive RF meter, make sure you are looking for RF power at 1/3 your operating frequency. If you are having trouble getting 400 mW or so on your new frequency, take another element in the commercial VHF band and re-tune the exciter to make sure it is (still?) working correctly. The exciter makes 400 mW at 1/3 the transmitter operating frequency, then there are filters - which also operate at VHF, then is the tripler which makes about 1 - 2 watts at UHF. All stages should be re-tuned to insure PA saturation, otherwise the transmitter will be spurious. Hope this helps... Kevin Custer _
RE: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Station question
I'm most familiar with Maxtrac's with regards to less than full power operation, i.e. that they can produce spurs other undesirables when run that way. So other radios can have the same issues? Many do, but not all, hate to over-generalize... I read that it is because when running below rated levels (anywhere in the tx chain) there exist impedance mismatches between stages, so things aren't running correctly. It tends to most often be a class C amplification stage issue. The multiplier stages in the exciter, if tuned properly, shouldn't cause problems. As far as I'm concerned, only a poorly-designed transmitter would rely on adjustments in early exciter stages as a means of varying the final power output power... E.g. bandpass filters might be mismatched to active stages so they can't do what they're supposed to do. I'm thinking that most (all?) stages of an FM tx are running at saturation(?). I'm not sure if you're talking about early exciter stages (multiplication stages, buffers, etc.), or the PA, or both. Multiplier stages are, to greatly simplify, harmonic generators. They produce harmonics (distortion) which are then filtered/resonated typically by LC circuits to yield the desired harmonic. So, yeah, I guess you could say that those stages are in saturation. Buffer stages that act as limiters to remove any amplitude variations would likewise be in saturation obviously. Most class C PA's are comprised of cascaded gain stages. If you're lucky, the inter-stage impedances will be 50 ohms. Many of the two-way equipment we all know and love is designed this way, either at the inter-stage level or, in some cases, at the inter-board level for PA's that are comprised of multiple boards/strips. This makes it easy to get the power output level you really need if you have a PA that's too big for the job at hand. If you have, for example, a 100 watt amplifier but only need 25 watts, you would bypass the last stage or two so that you're only running the earlier stages to get the 25 watts out that you need, running those early stages at or near their designed power output level. Reducing collector voltage (power supply voltage) is *usually* a safer way of reducing power output as compared to under-driving a class C amplifier as far as stability goes. Efficency will likely degrade, but if you're running the amplifier below its continuous duty power output rating in doing so, most likely dissipation isn't going to be a problem. Of course, if you have cascaded gain stages, this can be a catch-22 situation; if you reduce the collector voltage to all of the stages, you've also reduced the drive to each successive stage... As a last resort, a high-power attenuator on the output can be used for reduced output. I don't know if anyone has ever looked at spectrum of output for junque. Is there some better way of running at lower power w/o making RF crud? Anyone who puts a repeater transmitter on the air without looking at it on a spectrum analyzer post-install should be publicly flogged at the next hamfest with a 4' scrap of 1/2 Heliax ;-) Again, at the risk of repeating myself, there are well-designed class C amps that remain extremely stable at reduced power levels. For example, I run a lot of GE UHF Delta-S's as link radios, and you can turn them down as low as they will go (about 4 watts) and they remain unconditionally stable, I've never been able to get one to spur, and I've purposefully tried via load mis-matching, opens, shorts, you name it. Many others I've found to be a lot less forgiving. Several of the made-for-the-amateur-market repeaters have been particularly bad in this regard. --- Jeff WN3A
[Repeater-Builder] Re: LOW RF OUTPUT D43KXA7JA7BK
BAD CAPS that have already leaked and damaged the circuits causes this. Recaped is not going to repair the problem. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike n8...@... wrote: Hi,ok guys here's one for ya. i have a D43KXA7JA7BK that has low rf output, at 10.5v i can get 15-20 watts out about 5-7 amps draw at 13-14v i get 5-7 watts out about 4 amps draw in rss rf power and current adj does nothing no output when keyed from rss also i have recaped and checked for bad solder joints its like something is braking down at the higher voltage sometimes it will kick up to 45watts for a sec. but drop right back to 5-7 watts maybe final transistor,driver,pre driver,??? Help !!! i have no manual,schamitc,no info gong at it blind.. a scan of pa manual schamitc ?? would be nice if any one can help. Thank you for reading N8RTN.MIKE Also any one have paper manual i can buy?+shipping..must be cheap as iam layed off work
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LOW RF OUTPUT D43KXA7JA7BK
What is that? You can find most GE lbi's on repeaterbuilder. WA Brown - Original Message - From: Mike n8...@woh.rr.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] LOW RF OUTPUT D43KXA7JA7BK Hi,ok guys here's one for ya. i have a D43KXA7JA7BK that has low rf output, at 10.5v i can get 15-20 watts out about 5-7 amps draw at 13-14v i get 5-7 watts out about 4 amps draw in rss rf power and current adj does nothing no output when keyed from rss also i have recaped and checked for bad solder joints its like something is braking down at the higher voltage sometimes it will kick up to 45watts for a sec. but drop right back to 5-7 watts maybe final transistor,driver,pre driver,??? Help !!! i have no manual,schamitc,no info gong at it blind.. a scan of pa manual schamitc ?? would be nice if any one can help. Thank you for reading N8RTN.MIKE Also any one have paper manual i can buy?+shipping..must be cheap as iam layed off work Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Programming of X9000 with Handheld controller
No Problem, Glad you got it figured out. What you said about the HHCH for the dual radio 9000 was the one I was talking about that had the grey box on it, I think it is called a SIU box. I have one of them. If I remember right, the one you have is either a 32 or can go 64 channels with moving a jumper. I have the suitcase programmer for those if you need it. 73, Mike KB5FLX - Original Message - From: tahrens301 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:28 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Programming of X9000 with Handheld controller Hi Mike, BUSTED! Man, I gotta eat crow on this one... I've had X9000s on the brain for a couple of months now, by golly, if that sticker was a snake, it would'a bit me. First clue.. I had never seen a control board like the one that is in this radio... that shoulda' been an indication that something wasn't right! I had never seen a Syntor X, frankly, thought it was in a different case. Guess that's why it didn't dawn on me to even pay attention to the sticker. Tunnel vision! I even got some extra light so I could read the model number. Talk about the forest the trees! The X9000 did have a provision for a HHCH... it was used in a dual radio configuration - VHF UHF radios.. I even have the book. I guess that didn't help me out with the main issue tho. Anyway, thanks to all who endured the questions with a really dumb answer! Now I gotta go to Batlabs respond to somebody else that figured it out. Yum, this crow tastes like chicken!! Tim
[Repeater-Builder] hand held 800mhz...which one
i have msf5000 repeater in simplex, full duplex with telephone interconnect...working nice. which handheld device will be utilized the best and programmed to use DTMF as telephone with TPL to this repeater 800mhz. thanks!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LOW RF OUTPUT D43KXA7JA7BK
GE LBIs aren't going to help fix a Motorola Spectra. At 05:19 PM 09/17/09, you wrote: What is that? You can find most GE lbi's on repeaterbuilder. WA Brown - Original Message - From: Mike n8...@woh.rr.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] LOW RF OUTPUT D43KXA7JA7BK Hi,ok guys here's one for ya. i have a D43KXA7JA7BK that has low rf output, at 10.5v i can get 15-20 watts out about 5-7 amps draw at 13-14v i get 5-7 watts out about 4 amps draw in rss rf power and current adj does nothing no output when keyed from rss also i have recaped and checked for bad solder joints its like something is braking down at the higher voltage sometimes it will kick up to 45watts for a sec. but drop right back to 5-7 watts maybe final transistor,driver,pre driver,??? Help !!! i have no manual,schamitc,no info gong at it blind.. a scan of pa manual schamitc ?? would be nice if any one can help. Thank you for reading N8RTN.MIKE Also any one have paper manual i can buy?+shipping..must be cheap as iam layed off work
RE: [Repeater-Builder] hand held 800mhz...which one
The MTS2000 is a great radio but not made anymore. The Kenwood TK480 is also a great radio. Mike Mullarkey K7PFJ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gueorgui g Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:46 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] hand held 800mhz...which one i have msf5000 repeater in simplex, full duplex with telephone interconnect...working nice. which handheld device will be utilized the best and programmed to use DTMF as telephone with TPL to this repeater 800mhz. thanks! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.104/2379 - Release Date: 09/17/09 15:55:00
[Repeater-Builder] Anybody have some REALLY old Moto manuals?
If so, I need a favor. The first implementation of PL used about 20 tones. The 32-tone standard list didn't come until later. Does anybody have a copy of that early tone list? It would have been somewhere in the 1950-1955 time frame. Thanks in advance. Mike WA6ILQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Anybody have some REALLY old Moto manuals?
Actually it was developed for the military in the 1940's if you do a search on Motorola and Fred Link gear for the military I think you will find the first lists of PL or CTCSS tones used-I use to have the references but have long since purged them from my system-PTT was invented in the 1930's, is anything really new? From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:09 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Anybody have some REALLY old Moto manuals? If so, I need a favor. The first implementation of PL used about 20 tones. The 32-tone standard list didn't come until later. Does anybody have a copy of that early tone list? It would have been somewhere in the 1950-1955 time frame. Thanks in advance. Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: hand held 800mhz...which one
the handheld should have DTMF keypad --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, k7...@... wrote: The MTS2000 is a great radio but not made anymore. The Kenwood TK480 is also a great radio. Mike Mullarkey K7PFJ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gueorgui g Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:46 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] hand held 800mhz...which one i have msf5000 repeater in simplex, full duplex with telephone interconnect...working nice. which handheld device will be utilized the best and programmed to use DTMF as telephone with TPL to this repeater 800mhz. thanks! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.104/2379 - Release Date: 09/17/09 15:55:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: hand held 800mhz...which one
Both have DTMF Pads Mike Mullarkey K7PFJ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gueorgui g Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:28 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: hand held 800mhz...which one the handheld should have DTMF keypad --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , k7...@... wrote: The MTS2000 is a great radio but not made anymore. The Kenwood TK480 is also a great radio. Mike Mullarkey K7PFJ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of gueorgui g Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:46 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] hand held 800mhz...which one i have msf5000 repeater in simplex, full duplex with telephone interconnect...working nice. which handheld device will be utilized the best and programmed to use DTMF as telephone with TPL to this repeater 800mhz. thanks! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.104/2379 - Release Date: 09/17/09 15:55:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.104/2379 - Release Date: 09/17/09 15:55:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Anybody have some REALLY old Moto manuals?
Hi Mike, I would say Neil Mckie WA6KLA should help you out with any OLD Motorola manual that they have ever printed since 1948. But he has been locked up for several years and all of his stuff he gave away. Mike Mullarkey K7PFJ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:09 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Anybody have some REALLY old Moto manuals? If so, I need a favor. The first implementation of PL used about 20 tones. The 32-tone standard list didn't come until later. Does anybody have a copy of that early tone list? It would have been somewhere in the 1950-1955 time frame. Thanks in advance. Mike WA6ILQ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.104/2379 - Release Date: 09/17/09 15:55:00
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Programming of X9000 with Handheld controller
Hi Mike, It might be nice to re-program the module with my frequencies.. I looked through the info, I'm not quite up to doing it manually... too many bits down the bucket to go back to those days! How bout we take this off line. I'm tahrens at swtexas dot com Thanks, Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dietrich m.dietr...@... wrote: No Problem, Glad you got it figured out. What you said about the HHCH for the dual radio 9000 was the one I was talking about that had the grey box on it, I think it is called a SIU box. I have one of them. If I remember right, the one you have is either a 32 or can go 64 channels with moving a jumper. I have the suitcase programmer for those if you need it. 73, Mike KB5FLX - Original Message - From: tahrens301 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:28 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Programming of X9000 with Handheld controller Hi Mike, BUSTED! Man, I gotta eat crow on this one... I've had X9000s on the brain for a couple of months now, by golly, if that sticker was a snake, it would'a bit me. First clue.. I had never seen a control board like the one that is in this radio... that shoulda' been an indication that something wasn't right! I had never seen a Syntor X, frankly, thought it was in a different case. Guess that's why it didn't dawn on me to even pay attention to the sticker. Tunnel vision! I even got some extra light so I could read the model number. Talk about the forest the trees! The X9000 did have a provision for a HHCH... it was used in a dual radio configuration - VHF UHF radios.. I even have the book. I guess that didn't help me out with the main issue tho. Anyway, thanks to all who endured the questions with a really dumb answer! Now I gotta go to Batlabs respond to somebody else that figured it out. Yum, this crow tastes like chicken!! Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Anybody have some REALLY old Moto manuals?
Mike and Mike, I have a Motorola twin coffin 30D set of manuals out of Neil's collection. I will have a look tomorrow and see what I can find out for you as to what is listed for PL Tones. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, k7...@... wrote: Hi Mike, I would say Neil Mckie WA6KLA should help you out with any OLD Motorola manual that they have ever printed since 1948. But he has been locked up for several years and all of his stuff he gave away. Mike Mullarkey K7PFJ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:09 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Anybody have some REALLY old Moto manuals? If so, I need a favor. The first implementation of PL used about 20 tones. The 32-tone standard list didn't come until later. Does anybody have a copy of that early tone list? It would have been somewhere in the 1950-1955 time frame. Thanks in advance. Mike WA6ILQ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.104/2379 - Release Date: 09/17/09 15:55:00
