Re: [Repeater-Builder] SyntorX Repeater
Did you go to the source and ask KB0NLY? He may be able to give you exactly the answers you need. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 5/18/09, Henry Harms hha...@fidnet.com wrote: From: Henry Harms hha...@fidnet.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] SyntorX Repeater To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 10:42 AM OK, I have been reading for several days all of the info on these radios. I have two units that I want to modify into repeater to replace an antique split site machine that we have and have a spare with the other. What I understand is if I get the Xcat module and make the mods that KB0NLY has on his site that should do what I want for a low power 50 watt machine. What I don't see is where to connect the receiver antenna lead. Thanks Henry Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
[Repeater-Builder] Trying to fix Cushman CE-50A-1/TG
I've got a unit that was probably dropped. I had to replace every exposed part on the rear panel. I've got a PDF copy of a manual that's close but it's woefully lacking in many areas, like how to get things apart and work on them. Anyway, the sig gen operates fine but doesn't output anything in Spectrum Analyzer mode. The scope works fine and DOES display spectrums. The unit receives signals and measures modulation. A lot of it is working. Just a few issues to deal with. Does anybody out there have one of these they could pop the cover off and take one voltage measurement for me? There's a signal called SW10V that's high in all positions of the function switch except Spectrum Analyzer, and I suspect one or more diodes on this switch may be bad, but before I dig into the unit that deeply I'd like to confirm this signal. If it should be at +10V in SA mode, that gives me something to look for. If it's 0V in SA mode on a working unit, then this is obviously not the problem with mine. I promise: No electrons will be hurt or damaged by this procedure. If you know anyone who's intimately familiar with these units who might be willing to discuss a few service techniques via e-mail, that would be good to hear about. Reply privately if you wish. Just maintain the subject so I know it's not spam. Bob M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LCS2000 for 900 MHz Amateur
Oh come on. Having played with Motorola stuff for so long, you should know the answer to this question without even thinking about asking it. Of course you can't program the LCS2000 radios with anything you currently have. But once you have the right software you may have to hex-edit it if the SHIFT-NUM trick doesn't work. So how's the crowd and the weather? Bob M. == --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Mark n9...@ameritech.net wrote: From: Mark n9...@ameritech.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] LCS2000 for 900 MHz Amateur To: motorola_software_us...@yahoogroups.com, Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, ar902...@yahoogroups.com, 900...@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 4:38 PM OK, I picked up a couple of these at Dayton. (Yes, the price was good!!) Can I program them with the standard RSS, or will I need a hacked version to allow freq entry? Mark - N9WYS
Re: [Repeater-Builder] First UHF MSF5000 Attempt
On the first station I had with the internal filter/duplexer, I tried tuning it with the recommended equipment: sig gen, RF voltmeter, tuning probe, dummy loads. It was rather difficult and I wasn't happy with the results, so I figured I'm smarter than the average bear and I tried tuning it with my spectrum analyzer and tracking generator. The results were even worse. Eventually I went back to the recommended method and substituted my own 50 ohm dummy load for the PA during tuning. One thing I did find was that you MUST follow the procedure in the book and not go back and readjust the coils again unless you back them out and start over from the beginning. You'll just end up chasing your tail that way. The tuning is very sharp using the tuning probe; it's very wide using the SA/TG combo. All of the filters are bandpass, so tuning by nature is somewhat broad. Using the tuning probe and dip method, like with the front end, you see the suck-out effect in the neighboring coil and you know exactly when you've got it tuned. It's almost like watching the notch tuning on a duplexer. Just follow the instructions and tune each core once. I ended up with just over 2dB loss in the post filter and slightly less in the pre-filter. If you do the math, I think you'll find that your 110/70 ratio is right about on the money, even though it doesn't agree with what you see in the manual. It may also be that Motorola considers those to be maximum power levels with those configurations, not necessarily that you'd get 110 watts without the F/D and 85 watts with it on the same station. If the pre-filter has too much loss, the station may complain and not transmit because it required too much drive from the IPA, but that doesn't seem to be your problem yet. Also remember that the station's power control circuit is measuring the RF voltage at the output of the PA, so the amount of power you see will also depend on the load impedance. The load presented by the internal F/D is anybody's guess, especially after you tune it up. If you had something like a return-loss bridge, you could look into the ends of the filters and adjust the first coil for best return loss / match, and hope the rest work out OK. But if I recall the procedure in the book, you work your way towards the PA of the post-filter so the input (left-most) coil would be adjusted last anyway. The 110w PA is really capable of a lot more power than Motorola rates it for. I've seen stations with the internal F/D making over 110 watts out of the antenna port. The IPA, PA, and internal F/D are all either range-1 or range-2. In your case, range-2 covers about 435 to 475 MHz. The PA has a built-in circulator so it needs either a low-pass filter or the internal F/D after it to get rid of the 2nd and 3rd harmonics that could result. A good external duplexer that has a real bandpass cavity on the input will also do the job. The low-pass filter used on base stations starts cutting off around 600 MHz and it reduces the 2nd harmonic and higher by over 80dB. Those are my thoughts at the moment. You can reach me off the group if you want to get down to the nitty-gritty. Bob M. == --- On Fri, 5/8/09, Adam Feuer feu...@optonline.net wrote: From: Adam Feuer feu...@optonline.net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] First UHF MSF5000 Attempt To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, May 8, 2009, 5:06 PM Hi Mark, Interesting about your MSR2000. I'm not sure about it's band splits but if I'm not mistaken, my MSF is in band all the way down to 438mhz. I'm suspicious about my tuning of that 4 pole filter because of my lack of knowledge on the use of a tracking generator. Although, when I was done tuning it, my scope looked very similar to the pics on the MSF page here on Repeater-Builder. I tried tuning it three times and every time I'm done, I only get 70 to 72 watts at the side of the cabinet. OH wellthanks anyway! Adam N2ACF Mark wrote: Adam, It may be far enough out-of-band for the harmonic filter that it isn't passing as much RF to the antenna connection port, regardless of what the specs call for... I had an MSR2000 that was like that - it was in the commercial UHF band and worked fine, but when it got moved to 444.5500, it kept burning up the PA - melted the connections to the harmonic filter, even with silver solder. (We finally gave up on that one.) Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Adam Feuer Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 2:49 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] First UHF MSF5000 Attempt Hmm??? The book at my friends shop said (if I read it right) that a C74 with the filter option was rated at 110 from the PA and 85 at the junction box which is why I'm concerned about my 71 watts. James Delancy wrote: UHF models that are 110 Watts
Re: [Repeater-Builder] changing frequencies on GM 300
It's not feasible to replace the necessary components. There are probably 20-30 surface-mount capacitors plus some coils. The entire board should be swapped for one on the right band-split. You may also need to do something with the power amplifier as well. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 5/6/09, sixpe...@sbcglobal.net sixpe...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: sixpe...@sbcglobal.net sixpe...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] changing frequencies on GM 300 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 2:22 PM What needs to be done to the RF board to convert hle 8264a to hle 8300a?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 440 UHF
The condition is often referred to as tin whiskers. There's a lot of info about that on the web. NASA has done a lot of research about it. It's the growth of tiny filaments mainly on tin-plated RF assemblies. In the MSF5000, this condition can be found inside the two VCOs, inside the mixer coil assembly, inside the RF front-end assembly, and inside the internal filter/duplexer assembly. It usually happens on only the real shiny parts. Motorola changed the alloy for their castings, possibly in the late 1980s, to have a dull finish which is not supposed to suffer from this problem. The VCOs and mixer coil assembly can be opened. The front end and duplexer aren't supposed to be opened, but I don't know why. Maybe there are some gaskets that must be positioned just-so. Way too many screws. The adjusting cores can be removed and you can stick a piece of wood or plastic through the hole, move it around, and see if that clears the whiskers out. It doesn't take much. They will look like very thin cobwebs or hair-like strands going between the inside of the assembly and anything else that just happens to be near it. I've only encountered it in the VCOs and mixer coil assembly. Disassemble the unit, use a toothbrush or toothpick and move it all around the entire inside perimeter. Wipe all metallic surfaces. Go around any coils or other components, especially between them and the side surfaces of the assembly. Go into areas you may not even see. This is about all you can do. The growth seems to take years to occur. The filaments are extremely thin and fragile and sometimes they'll break off or disintegrate if you just bang the assembly on the workbench or lift it up a few inches and drop it. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 5/4/09, Bob Luttrull kd7...@comcast.net wrote: From: Bob Luttrull kd7...@comcast.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 440 UHF To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 11:23 PM Hi all I am having a problem with my repeater. It is a MSF5000 440 UHF 110W. I was told that it might have crystal hairs in the TX duplexer. People are telling me that I need to disassemble the duplexer and clean it with a toothbrush to get the crystals out and use a nolock on the adjustment screws. Is that right? If not can someone fill me in on the correct way to do it and the right things to use? I don't have a service manual for the unit but I don't think I will have a problem. Thanks Bob kd7ikz
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Ham installation quality/non-quality
I agree. There's a nice article on r-b about what you should think about and do when building a repeater. That's great if you already have an inkling about what to do. But people don't always have the same vision after reading something, so pictures definitely are worth thousands of words. There's plenty of stuff on the web telling and showing people the right way. A little bit of here's what NOT to do would be a welcome addition. It may embarrass a few people enough so they clean up their act a bit too. If we can't put a what not to do article up on r-b, it can always find a welcome home in the Humor section. Bob M. == --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com wrote: From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Ham installation quality/non-quality To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 4:48 PM Nate - May I suggest that you do a write-up with photos that could be posted on the RB site? Maybe the right way and the wrong way would be helpful for guys making installs. And explain why it's done this way, not that way. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Ham installation quality/non-quality On Tue, 05 May 2009 12:32:57 -, Louis k1...@yahoo.com said: Interesting, this looks like one of those Hams/bash-hams discussions that is not suppose to take place on this forum! Sometimes you just have to rant when you see something this bad. I didn't name names, and I didn't attack any individual. Yes, I will agree their are those that cause havoc with a tower site owner, or other lessors, but the number is minor compared to those Amateur Radio installs that are done properly and well maintained. I hope so. From the proud papa photos around the Internet, I'd say it's closer to 50/50, but luckily that ratio gets better at commercial sites, where my club's gear often lives. SNIP
RE: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project
USC 47 part 97 (FCC amateur service) rule 97.119(c) quoted below: (c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both before and after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may conflict with any other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned to another country. Seems to me that /R is allowed, unless the R is not an FCC-specified indicator. I couldn't find a list of acceptable indicators in Part 97, which was surprising. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 5/4/09, Mike Besemer (WM4B) mwbese...@cox.net wrote: From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) mwbese...@cox.net Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 5:55 AM Actually, the /R is not ALLOWED by FCC rules any longer. Mike WM4B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Plack Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 2:20 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project Dean, you have one: KJ4LII/R. Discreet repeater callsigns have been gone for decades. The repeater's callsign these days is typically the owner, another individual designated by the owner as the licensee, or in some cases a club callsign. Controllers are often programmed to appends /R to the end of the callsign, but even that is not required any more. 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: redleg_8 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 6:16 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project I have selected hardware, controller, duplexer, antenna, and location. SERA has provided me with available frequency pairs and a blank application. What I CAN'T locate any information on is how to obtain a legal callsign for a individually owned repeater. Thanks, Dean KJ4LII
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Piston Cap Source (a good deal)
I've got a few myself and they ARE really that good. Easy to adjust, very stable, solid as a rock. I'm using one as the gimmick capacitor in a Heliax duplexer. Other than putting my hand near it, nothing seems to make it change capacitance. The only odd thing about them is their mounting style. They just solder into holes in the circuit board. There's no mechanical (threaded-hole) mounting, but you could solder one end to a metal plate if required. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 5/4/09, skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com wrote: From: skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Piston Cap Source (a good deal) To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 11:18 AM Piston Cap Source (a good deal) Now that I've got mine... I'll happily share a source of low cost Piston Capacitors with the group. Hamtronics has a clearance page at: http://www.hamtronics.com/sale.htm A49 Piston Trimmer Capacitor. 1-11 pF trimmer suitable for adjusting oscillator freq or general vhf/uhf tuned circuits. Very stable ceramic material. .5/$2 (or 50$10) These are great caps for the price, should you want to repair or build something new. The price is right... cheers, skipp
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Google .. some one messed it up :)
Yeah, it took me a while to figure out the text wasn't on TWO lines; you had to read it left to right. I don't think it was necessarily ham-related; more like the creator of the code. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 4/27/09, Rick Szajkowski va3r...@gmail.com wrote: From: Rick Szajkowski va3r...@gmail.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Google .. some one messed it up :) To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 8:08 AM can you read google this morning ? Nice to see a 'ham' feel to it :) Rick
Re: [Repeater-Builder] HENRY RF AMP C40D02 Manual
From www.radiodan.com: C40D02, 2-40 watt Mobile, 10 MHz approx. bandwidth, FM only This is NOT a continuous-duty amplifier; it's meant for a mobile setup which would typically be 5/5/90%. It would need a R after the model number to indicate repeater (i.e. continuous) duty. Bob M. == --- On Sun, 4/26/09, Romy ve7...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Romy ve7...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] HENRY RF AMP C40D02 Manual To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 3:08 AM Hi, This is a 40 Watt PA, I need to know if this is 40 Watt 100% duty cycle. Does anyone has a pdf manual for this PA. Thanks, Romy
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Funny noise on repeat audio
Yup, some of them sure do make noise. Had this happen on a Henry UHF repeater amplifier which are thermostatically controlled. Only got the buzzing when the fans came on, and stopping them with my fingers did NOT cure the noise, so it's not due to mechanical rotation. Henry kindly sent me some 120VAC fans and the problem went away. Yet I have another continuously running 12VDC fan mounted inside the cabinet and I have no noise from it whatsoever. Some brands are worse than others. Line filtering usually does not cure it; it's radiated from the motor windings and/or electronics. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 4/13/09, John Harrington w5...@gt.rr.com wrote: From: John Harrington w5...@gt.rr.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Funny noise on repeat audio To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 10:59 PM Here's a problem that caused me much gnashing of teeth and tearing of hair before I nailed it. Some of you may find it old news, but here it is: Mastr II station with NHRC controller. Mobile PA, with fans added so the PA would live through nets and long transmissions. Problems with a humming noise on repeated audio, low deviation, but annoying. Station mike clean, but hum (sorta like PL tone) on any repeated audio. Lived with the problem for a while, but an overhaul on the bench on other problems (whiskers in the rx front end, etc.) gave me some time to play with it. Turns out it was the fans! I had used 4 12V brushless muffin fans. The fans were running from the 12V station power supply. When I disconnected them in desperation, the noise went away! I built a little filter from a toroid core and a few caps in a pi-net, but the noise was still noticeable. I installed two 120VAC fans and the problem was solved. My theory is that the 3-phase oscillator in the fans produced square waves to run the little fan motor. Square waves have lots of harmonics and was radiating them into the rx audio line into the controller. Word to the wise-- be careful of 12V brushless fans around susceptible equipment. John W5EME
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola R56 grounding
Thanks for the explanation. I was certainly thinking lower resistance with the 4-inch copper ground but didn't think the impedance at 60 Hz would be that much different. I can definitely see the coupling problem with conduit and I believe conduit is required in commercial installations. I bet a lot more people would follow R56 if it was more freely available and not shrouded in secrecy and cost. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 4/9/09, Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net wrote: From: Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola R56 grounding To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 10:51 PM Bob, The reason is quite simple. If a fault (say, a short to the case) occurs in a piece of equipment that is grounded per the NEC, the fault current- which may be 100 amperes or more- flows from the service through the circuit protection device (fuse or circuit breaker) to the fault, and returns via the equipment grounding conductor (green wire) to the service. When the green wire is in close proximity to the hot wire (in the same conduit or cable jacket), the impedance to the fault is as low as it can possibly be- ensuring the immediate functioning of the circuit protection device. If the fault return path were to follow a circular route- as it would if through a path not in close proximity to the supply conductor- the impedance will ALWAYS be much greater, and can possibly be high enough to limit the fault current to a value near the rating of the circuit protective device. For example, if the impedance of the ground return path limited the fault current to 25 amperes on a 20 ampere branch circuit, the circuit may cook for several minutes before tripping. Keep in mind that a fancy copper strip running around the shack may have a DC resistance that is a fraction of one ohm, but its AC impedance may be many ohms. When the electrical installation is within steel conduit, the problem becomes much worse if the grounding conductor follows a different path from the hot and neutral conductors. When a fault occurs, the presence of the steel conduit creates a solenoid and the impedance increases significantly. Case in point: About 20 years ago, I was rewiring a very old theater that was then almost 50 years old. When I got around to working on the house lights, I found that an audible hum could be heard when the dimming rheostats were in a certain position. The hum seemed to come from everywhere, making it difficult to pinpoint the source. On a hunch, I used my trusty Simpson clamp ammeter to test the conduits up in the rafters. Surprise! One of the conduits had almost 15 amperes flowing through it, meaning that there was a fault in the house light circuit, but the impedance of the grounding circuit limited the current to less than the circuit breaker rating. While pulling out the ancient TW wires, I found one that was skinned bare by being pulled through an unreamed conduit, and had shorted to the conduit. Had this circuit been properly grounded, the circuit breaker would have tripped instantly; instead, a dangerous electrical fault persisted, and in a place of assembly, that is unacceptable. The NEC includes many references to minimizing the impedance of a fault current path, but the NEC Handbook includes detailed explanations of the rationale. For example, Article 250.24(C)(1) states, This [grounding] conductor shall be routed with the phase conductors... Article 250.32(B)(1) states, An equipment grounding conductor as described in 250.118 shall be run with the supply conductors... It takes a leap to assume that it's okay to depart from this consistent mantra. An electrical inspector's primary concern is ensuring the safety of the public and of structures occupied by the public. I will admit that few inspectors will perform a thorough inspection of a mountaintop radio or cellular site, because the public's safety is not much of an issue there. I also understand why an electrician- regardless of how experienced he or she may be- will probably never object to performing an installation that is not fully compliant with the NEC. The owner will probably perceive that electrician as a troublemaker, leading to lost business. The electrician can always say that he followed the plans exactly, and is therefore not likely to be held accountable. I have worked with many electrical inspectors who don't sweat the small stuff, but also with many who are very thorough and would never allow creative grounding methods. As an IAEI/ICBO Certified Electrical Inspector myself, I have been in the business long enough to know that a telecommunications site wired and grounded in accordance with the NEC will work properly and be safe. As for the currency of R56, I do not know how often it is updated. I do know that its authors are aware
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola R56 grounding
I question the validity of your statement that separating the grounding conductor would greatly increase the impedance of the grounding system It might do this depending on the route the ground wire takes, but if the installation had a 4 inch ground foil running around the perimeter of the building and every grounding conductor ran from an outlet to this ground foil, wouldn't that REDUCE the impedance and possibly offer better ground conduction? Seems to me that a long #12 ground wire, from the outlet all the way back to the service panel, would have a higher impedance. I agree with the rest of the paragraph below however. How often is R56 updated? Does R56 mention somewhere that local regs take precedence, or that NFPA codes supercede R56? Is R56 just a thorough collection of installation guidelines and recommended practices? I've never seen a copy so I'm asking merely for my own education. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 4/8/09, Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net wrote: From: Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola R56 grounding To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 10:04 PM Martin, Sure! The National Electrical Code (NEC) requires that the equipment grounding conductor (green or bare wire) must always follow the same route and wireway used by the supply and return conductors. There must never be any deviation from this basic requirement. The three wires (hot, neutral, and ground) feeding every receptacle must always run together, but the R56 manual proposes that the grounding conductors of some technical receptacles shall follow a path separate from the hot and neutral conductors. That is not allowed by the NEC, since that would greatly increase the impedance of the grounding system and thereby reduce the protection of the circuit against faults. Also, the NEC requires that the system grounding conductors, equipment grounding conductors, and lightning protection grounding conductors must ultimately be bonded together to create ONE grounding system. The R56 manual proposes a scheme that creates separate grounding circuits that can create dangerous voltages on some circuits if a fault occurs on another circuit. Despite some really creative schemes to create separate grounding paths, such schemes are not allowed by the NEC or by state electrical codes based upon the NEC. Readers following this thread should be aware that the NEC is updated every three years, and becomes law as each state or commonwealth ratifies it through legislative action. The current edition of the National Electrical Code, NFPA 70, is the 2008 edition. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Msf5000/ TLE1452A amp problems
Well, if it's too easy, I can give you another procedure that's a lot more difficult, painful, and expensive. Your choice. Bob M. == --- On Sun, 4/5/09, mdnosliw mdnos...@yahoo.com wrote: From: mdnosliw mdnos...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Msf5000/ TLE1452A amp problems To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 10:31 PM Thanks for the info, that sounds too easy. I can tell which amp stage it is by the different current on the test set positions. I have a spare amp for parts so I should not have a problem. Thanks Mark KB1IOZ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bob M. msf5kg...@... wrote: Usually the dividing / summing resistors cause issues. These split the output of the driver stage to the multiple PA modules, then merge them together. Check for burnt or discolored components. You may have to pull things apart to get to the resistors. I think they're mounted underneath the circuit boards. Also check and resolder ALL the omega strips, even if they look good. Taking meter readings will tell you which PA module is failing, but it won't tell you if it's loss of input power or the module itself. Everything works at 50 ohms so you can try swapping modules and see if the trouble follows the module (module bad) or stays with one position (divider or summing network resistor bad). Bob M. == --- On Sun, 4/5/09, mdnosliw mdnos...@... wrote: From: mdnosliw mdnos...@... Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Msf5000/ TLE1452A amp problems To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 6:37 PM Anyone have any experience troubleshooting these amps. I have one where one stage fails after about 10 minutes. Still will make about 75 watts. Out of three of these amps I find that the third stage always seems out of balance with the other two. Are there common parts on these that fail or is my only option to replace the stripline assembly. Thanks Mark KB1IOZ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Msf5000/ TLE1452A amp problems
Usually the dividing / summing resistors cause issues. These split the output of the driver stage to the multiple PA modules, then merge them together. Check for burnt or discolored components. You may have to pull things apart to get to the resistors. I think they're mounted underneath the circuit boards. Also check and resolder ALL the omega strips, even if they look good. Taking meter readings will tell you which PA module is failing, but it won't tell you if it's loss of input power or the module itself. Everything works at 50 ohms so you can try swapping modules and see if the trouble follows the module (module bad) or stays with one position (divider or summing network resistor bad). Bob M. == --- On Sun, 4/5/09, mdnosliw mdnos...@yahoo.com wrote: From: mdnosliw mdnos...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Msf5000/ TLE1452A amp problems To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 6:37 PM Anyone have any experience troubleshooting these amps. I have one where one stage fails after about 10 minutes. Still will make about 75 watts. Out of three of these amps I find that the third stage always seems out of balance with the other two. Are there common parts on these that fail or is my only option to replace the stripline assembly. Thanks Mark KB1IOZ
[Repeater-Builder] Awfully quiet today
Comcrap cable has an e-mail outage that started Saturday morning around 7-8am EDT. I've been told you can still send messages out but you can't check for, or receive messages using your favorite mail program. Their web-based SmartZone e-mail program also is down, so you're screwed either way. Way to go, Comcrap. Bob M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Awfully quiet today
One major difference is that Comcrap is a business. Verizon, aka Ma Bell, is a utility. Look how much better job is done by the Public Utility Control groups on prices for telcos, and how cable tv rates just keep climbing and climbing as the channel choices become less and less. I wasn't home during the evening but it seems stuff started working again around 6pm EDT. Bob M. == --- On Sat, 4/4/09, rahwayflynn mafl...@att.net wrote: From: rahwayflynn mafl...@att.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Awfully quiet today To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, April 4, 2009, 5:19 PM --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bob M. msf5kg...@... wrote: Comcrap cable has an e-mail outage that started Saturday morning around 7-8am EDT. I've been told you can still send messages out but you can't check for, or receive messages using your favorite mail program. Their web-based SmartZone e-mail program also is down, so you're screwed either way. My site was shopping for a T3 During the Comcast's salesman's speech, I asked what their SLA terms were. I had to explain SLA and what 5 nines were (less then 5 minutes downtime per year). Comcast could not guarantee anything. What good is 45 Mbs of bandwidth with a CIR of Zero? We are on a Verizon T3, with a second being installed shortly. Verizon is pulling 24 strands of dedicated single mode to an alternate wire center for me. When it *has* to work, it's back to Ma Bell.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Desktrac
I'm pretty sure that the DeskTrac base station does NOT have the additional cables necessary to support the second radio that would be present in a repeater configuration. You would need a second antenna cable (N-female to T-D male) for the receiver, and a rather unique flat cable going from a connector (that may not even be installed) on the station's front panel to the front and rear of the receiver chassis. After getting all that (you could either make them yourself or try to buy them new from Motorola, but I suspect the DeskTrac is discontinued by now) you'd still need an external duplexer, and as there's no identifier built-in to these stations, you'd need some means of identifying the transmissions. This could be accomplished by adding an external CW ID or even a commercial repeater controller; it depends on your application. You'd be better off making something from scratch with a pair of radios, a power supply, a dedicated repeater controller, and a box to put them in. Bob M. == --- On Tue, 3/31/09, Aisen Lopez aisendwi...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Aisen Lopez aisendwi...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Desktrac To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 9:34 PM Hi Could someone tell me if it is possible to modify a Desktrac Base to repeater configuration? I have a couple of radios here that I could use. But I'm not shure if the Desktrac in base configuration has all the cables and stuff already installed or... would I need to look for those?. Any help and orientation will be greatly appreciated.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] The repeater-builder yahoogroup just hit 4400+ members !!!
Cool. Now, you should have posted this tomorrow, when it might have been less believable. Happy AFD (I think it's already that date somewhere in Europe). Bob M. == --- On Tue, 3/31/09, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@gmail.com wrote: From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@gmail.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] The repeater-builder yahoogroup just hit 4400+ members !!! To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 6:27 AM As a moderator one of the things I do daily is log into the group and check for pending messages and pending members. Well, when I got home at 0117 on Tuesday (after the semi-annual sheriffs communications reserve meeting, plus the post-meeting critique at the local Dennys) I went to check for pending messages before crawling into bed and found that we've hit 4402 members (not counting the 251 on the banned list). I had planned on making this announcement at 4,000 but real life got in the way - and by the time I was able to check the count was at 4428. So I was waiting for 4400. So... here's a few things that struck me as interesting... Of those 4402, 700 (exactly!) are in daily digest mode, 1096 are getting individual emails, 2163 are in No Email mode (which means they read it at the yahoogroups web site - hopefully they DO read it) and 441 are in Special Notices mode (which is just like the No Email mode except that they would receive an email if the moderators or the owner needed to send out a high priority email to all the group members). Personally, I never use No Email mode, I always use either Individual Email mode or Special Notices mode. There have been times when the group owner or a moderator needs to send out a high priority bulletin. Of the 4402 current members there are 131 that get their mail via arrl.net, which surprises me as my arrl.net address (I've been a life member since 1978) consistently black-holes about 20-25% of the mail sent to me by way of arrl.net. A closer look shows that only 20 (exactly) are on individual email mode, and 22 are on daily digest. The rest are in No Email or Special Notices mode. The oldest member is dated as having joined on the first of January 1999 (which may be an artifact of the Yahoo data base), and 148 are listed as having joined that year, 178 in 2000, 290 in 2001, 316 in 2002, 438 in 2003, 413 in 2004, 579 in 2005, 648 in 2006, 639 in 2007, 576 in 2008, and 175 so far in this year. A few more facts that struck me as interesting are: 214 on gmail 198 on hotmail 29 at juno.com 2 at motorola.com 1 at ge.com none at Ericsson none at tyco none-at com-net 1683 at yahoo (collectively) 37 at yahoo.ca 36 at yahoo.uk 1492 at yahoo.com 6 at yahoo.ar 27 at yahoo.au 7 at yahoo.br 7 at (anything).gov 65 in (anything).au (Australia) 13 at (anything.br (Brasil) 97 at (anything).ca (Canada) 2 at yahoo.com.cn (China) 2 at (anything).hk (Hong Kong) 23 at (anything).it (Italy) 5 in (anything).mx (Mexico) 9 in (anything).nz (New Zeland) 5 at (anything).pt (Portugal) 11 in (anything).se (Sweden) 3 at yahoo.com.tw (Taiwan) 59 at (anything).uk (United Kingdom) 9 at (anything).za (South Africa / Zaire) 1 at (anything).zw (Zimbabwe) The above is not intended to be a full country code list - just the ones that stood out as I wandered through the spreadsheet And no, I will not violate anyone's privacy by releasing that spreadsheet. Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] Anyone seen or heard from Justin Ogden N3OG lately?
Back in early March his web site mysteriously disappeared. I sent e-mail but never got a reply. Has anyone seen or heard from him lately? I fear the worst. Bob M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MARATRAC
If the locations don't match, search for the original data values. They'll probably be very close to the locations in the article, or offset by some fixed amount that will be consistent for the other addresses too. Unless of course someone already hex-edited the version you have, in which case the values won't be the same no matter what you do. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Robert Kafarski radiotwo1...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Robert Kafarski radiotwo1...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MARATRAC To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 7:52 AM HI MIKE. I TRIED THE INFO ON REPEATER BUILDER. THE HEX ADDRESS DOES NOT MACH UP. ..73 BOB --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@gmail.com wrote: From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MARATRAC To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 3:51 PM At 04:45 AM 03/24/09, you wrote: HELLO GROUP! ANY BODY OUT THERE THAT CAN HELP ME WITH PROGRAMMING A MARATRAC TO SIX METERS? THANKS BOB See http://www.repeater -builder. com/motorola/ maratrac/ maratrac. html especially the section on the 6m conversion. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MARATRAC
Are you working with the same RSS version: R05.00.00g dated 20-Dec-96? Do you have your hex editor set to INTEL byte-order (little Endian)? Unfortunately you can't just replace one value with another throughout the entire file, as not all locations with a specific value need to be changed. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Robert Kafarski radiotwo1...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Robert Kafarski radiotwo1...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MARATRAC To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 2:16 PM HI BOB! NOTHING CLOSE TO WHAT I SEE ON REPEATER BUILDER. THANKS BOB --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Bob M. msf5kg...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Bob M. msf5kg...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MARATRAC To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 10:54 AM If the locations don't match, search for the original data values. They'll probably be very close to the locations in the article, or offset by some fixed amount that will be consistent for the other addresses too. Unless of course someone already hex-edited the version you have, in which case the values won't be the same no matter what you do. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Robert Kafarski radiotwo1955@ yahoo.com wrote: From: Robert Kafarski radiotwo1955@ yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MARATRAC To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 7:52 AM HI MIKE. I TRIED THE INFO ON REPEATER BUILDER. THE HEX ADDRESS DOES NOT MACH UP. ..73 BOB --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@gmail. com wrote: From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@gmail. com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MARATRAC To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 3:51 PM At 04:45 AM 03/24/09, you wrote: HELLO GROUP! ANY BODY OUT THERE THAT CAN HELP ME WITH PROGRAMMING A MARATRAC TO SIX METERS? THANKS BOB See http://www.repeater -builder. com/motorola/ maratrac/ maratrac. html especially the section on the 6m conversion. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MARATRAC
Version 5 is out there on some web sites. It might be worth trying to find it. Then things will line up. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Robert Kafarski radiotwo1...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Robert Kafarski radiotwo1...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MARATRAC To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 3:16 PM HI BOB! NO VERISON 4.03 THE HEX EDITOR IS INTEL BYTE ORDER.THANKS BOB --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Bob M. msf5kg...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Bob M. msf5kg...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MARATRAC To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 2:32 PM Are you working with the same RSS version: R05.00.00g dated 20-Dec-96? Do you have your hex editor set to INTEL byte-order (little Endian)? Unfortunately you can't just replace one value with another throughout the entire file, as not all locations with a specific value need to be changed. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Robert Kafarski radiotwo1955@ yahoo.com wrote: From: Robert Kafarski radiotwo1955@ yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MARATRAC To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 2:16 PM HI BOB! NOTHING CLOSE TO WHAT I SEE ON REPEATER BUILDER. THANKS BOB --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Bob M. msf5kg...@yahoo. com wrote: From: Bob M. msf5kg...@yahoo. com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MARATRAC To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 10:54 AM If the locations don't match, search for the original data values. They'll probably be very close to the locations in the article, or offset by some fixed amount that will be consistent for the other addresses too. Unless of course someone already hex-edited the version you have, in which case the values won't be the same no matter what you do. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Robert Kafarski radiotwo1955@ yahoo.com wrote: From: Robert Kafarski radiotwo1955@ yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MARATRAC To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 7:52 AM HI MIKE. I TRIED THE INFO ON REPEATER BUILDER. THE HEX ADDRESS DOES NOT MACH UP. ..73 BOB --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@gmail. com wrote: From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@gmail. com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MARATRAC To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 3:51 PM At 04:45 AM 03/24/09, you wrote: HELLO GROUP! ANY BODY OUT THERE THAT CAN HELP ME WITH PROGRAMMING A MARATRAC TO SIX METERS? THANKS BOB See http://www.repeater -builder. com/motorola/ maratrac/ maratrac. html especially the section on the 6m conversion. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 Squelch
You've got several more hours (or even days) of reading ahead of you! Thanks for the comments. The MSF5000 squelch is a single-level noise-based squelch system, much like the MaxTrac and most mobile radios. The squelch-tail duration is fixed. However there are two distinct and electronically different squelch circuits in the station: one for the Repeater, one for the Receiver, and they are independently set via EEPots. To confuse matters, the Receiver squelch can be set from the front panel Squelch pot instead of the EEPot IF the Acc Dis switch is raised. The only official way to tell if the squelches are closed is with a digital metering panel, as it has LEDs on both squelch signals. You can also measure the squelch circuit outputs with a DC voltmeter. The station's CW ID will NOT fire if either squelch circuit fails to close. Whichever way you're not using the station (repeater or receiver), then set its squelch EEPot to 99 or some high setting to insure they both eventually close. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 3/19/09, Adam Feuer feu...@optonline.net wrote: From: Adam Feuer feu...@optonline.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 Squelch To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 1:16 PM Hello All, I've just come into owning my first MSF5000 UHF Repeater model C74CXB. Also, I've spent the last few hours reading Bob's (WA1MIK) MSF/PURC Station Page as well as the Photo Tour page on Repeater Builder. By the way Bob, very well done and informative! Thanks!! I'm not sure if I missed it but I'm curious about the MSF's squelch. In particular, how it compares to the Micor Bi-Level Squelch. I have no experience yet with the MSF and I'm just wondering how it's squelch would do in general and as compared to that of the Micor. Thanks in advance! Adam N2ACF
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSF5000 Squelch
I sit corrected. Sorry if my info misled anyone. They tried to mimic the Micor squelch without the Micor chip. I've never had one work that way, possibly because I'm not using the internal repeater configuration. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 3/19/09, nj902 wb0...@arrl.net wrote: From: nj902 wb0...@arrl.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSF5000 Squelch To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 4:59 PM --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bob M. msf5kg...@... wrote: ... The MSF5000 squelch is a single-level noise-based squelch system, much like the MaxTrac and most mobile radios. The squelch-tail duration is fixed. ... . Incorrect. Since the original post referred to a CXB station, the operation of the squelch circuitry in the SSCB is as follows: The receiver squelch switching circuit operates in two modes. With a weak signal just above the opening sensitivity, squelch closing is slow (approximately 150 ms.) which results in the long squelch tail heard at the end of a received message. The long squelch tail is present to prevent the received message from being chopped during a weak fluttering signal. With a strong signal (approximately 10 dB above opening sensitivity), a squelch closing occurs immediately after the end of a received signal. This prevents the squelch tail from being heard. ... The repeater squelch detector circuit is very similar to the receiver squelch detector. (repeater slow squelch closing time is approximately 200 ms.)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Fish paper
The description doesn't say if there's an adhesive backing on this. I'd think you'd need something - glue or double-sided tape - to stick it on a panel you want to protect. As I recall, Heathkit used to use the self-stick stuff in many of their units, but after 20-30 years, the adhesive dries up and the fish paper falls out of position. Most annoying. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com wrote: From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Fish paper To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 7:33 PM Once again - Fish Paper listed here: http://www.oselectronics.com/ose_p147.htm Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Fish paper At 02:28 PM 03/05/09, you wrote: Does anybody know of a good source for fish paper insulating material? I trying to find it available in small quantities. 73 Bernie Parker K5BP I've not been able to find it for years. The last time I needed a small piece I ended up using an old bank ATM card. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 CLB Eprom Programming Template
If this was a stand-alone repeater, instead of a base-station, I'd think you have the repeater-activate and repeater-holdin parameters set differently, such that it needs carrier and PL tone to bring up the repeater but the holdin is missing or OFF. However, in a base-station configuration, the only field that has meaning is the receiver audio control / activation. I'd suspect the signal polarity and/or level feeding the CAT controller is incorrect or needs a pull-up on the input. What points in the MSF are you using to supply the COR and CTCSS input signals? Is the CAT set up to require CTCSS? There's an AND/OR switch or field setting in most CAT products. There's a test point in the SCB that has raw receiver audio. Put a scope or voltmeter on this point and verify that you still have signal coming through when the CAT keys the transmitter. Also verify the PTT signal coming out of the CAT is keying the transmitter when you provide the proper INPUT signals to the CAT. In other words, disconnect the COR and CTCSS lines and activate them manually to see if it's the CAT or the MSF that's not working the way you want. Bob M. == --- On Sun, 3/1/09, svfdcook rsc...@seabrookfd.com wrote: From: svfdcook rsc...@seabrookfd.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 CLB Eprom Programming Template To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 8:57 PM I am looking for some healp from users that have already programmed a CLB unit as a repeater with external controller. Any input on already programmed templates for a MSF 5000 CLB (C74CL7106A) including the appropriate options would be greatly appreciated. I have the eraser and eprom burner, and have burned the eprom a couple of times based on information I have found here and else where, but something must not be configured correctly. I am attempting to connect a CAT-400 and have the CLB (eprom) configued as a base station, however, whenever the unit receives a good signal (CSQPL) from the signal generator, the receives appears to go away once the transmitter goes hot. It is acting like it still has the antenna switch, but that is not correct, I have removed it and installed separate TX/RX for an external duplexer. This is my first posting on a Yahoo group, so I hope I have done it correctly, if not please advise. svfdcook KE5VJH rsc...@seabrookfd.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSF5000 CLB Eprom Programming Template
First thing I did was check the schematic. U832 pin 11 comes from the microprocessor and goes high when it wants to pass RX audio through the station. This would feed the transmitter and control line output. TP9 is the local mike PTT input. Your PTT Priority has L in it so this would allow the local mike audio to go through the station as well. I'm not sure, but I think that the MSF will only let one audio signal pass through it at a time. This is why there's a PTT Priority field. You've got LW so the local mike has priority followed by the wire line. If this does operate as I think, once the mike PTT line (TP9) gets grounded, this shuts off any other audio source and routes mike audio through the station. You didn't specify the pin number on U834 where you're feeding TX audio into. I think you're mixing and matching several incompatible signals here, while also trying to interface the CAT controller to the station. I'd connect a scope to U832 pin 11, feed a signal into the receiver with a valid PL, then ground TP9 and see what happens. If the COR signal goes away, that's one problem. If not, then many of my assumptions above are incorrect. Also check the summed audio output at TP1 and make sure receive audio stays there with TP9 grounded. You might consider connecting the COR and CTCSS inputs on the CAT together. I don't recall if switch or zone settings deal with whether you are using or not using CTCSS. You'll have to check and set the polarity properly. You probably don't want ANY timeouts set if you'll be using an external controller, as the CAT has its own timeouts in it. Full-Duplex should only pertain to the wireline remote control, but I'd set it to FULL just to be safe. I've never played with any CLBs or the R180x programmer, but it sounds like you're right on top of things. There are a couple of articles on the web that deal with interfacing and programming CLB stations. I haven't checked them recently but perhaps these will give you some additional choices. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 3/2/09, svfdcook rsc...@seabrookfd.com wrote: From: svfdcook rsc...@seabrookfd.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSF5000 CLB Eprom Programming Template To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 12:02 PM Here are my current connections and programming. Programming has changed a couple of times as I try different things. Connections: CAT-400 (J4) CTCSS (Not Used, since my COS only goes high with proper PL. CAT-400 (J6) COR (COS) to SCM Board, U832 pin 11, active high CAT-400 (J10) PTT to SCM Board, Test Point 9, active low CAT-400 (J11) TX Audio Out #1 to SCM Board, U834 with 18K 1/4 watt resistor CAT-400 (J13) RX Audio In #1 to SCM Board, J800, Pin 38 CAT-400 (J14) Shield Ground to SCM Board, J800, Pin 37 CAT-400 (J14) Ground to SCM Board, J800, Pin 40 Programming: #1 Model C74CLB7106A #2 Number of Channels = 1 #3 RF Frequency Infor / Range Checking Desired = Yes, Channel 1 = RX Freq = 448250.00 KHz, Channel 1 = TX Freq = 443.250, Update Tuning Channel? = Yes #4 Coded Squelch Info / Channel 1 = TX-PL = 3A, Channel 1 = RX-PL =3A #5 P-T-T Time Out Timer / Channel 1 = LIN-TOT = 60.0 Seconds, Channel 1 = LOC-TOT = 60.0 Seconds, Channel 1 = RPT-TOT = 180.0 Seconds #6 RPTR Drop-Out Delay / Channel 1 = RPT-DOD 0.0 Seconds #7 P-T-T Priority Onfo / Channel 1 = LW #8 Repeater Control / Channel 1 = RPT Act = SC, Channel 1 = RPT Hold = SC #9 RCVR Audio Control / Channel 1 = RCVR Audio = SC #10 TX Audio/Data Mixing / Channel 1 = Mix LIN with Data = No, Channel 1 = Mix LOC with Data = No, Channel 1 = Mix RPT with Data = No. #11 Auto ID Callsign = Left Blank #12 Alarm Tone Routing / Channel 1 = Over the air = Enabled, Channel 1 = Over-The-Air = Enabled, Channel 1 = Over-WIRELINE = Enabled #13 DC Remote Currents = Default #14 Mux-Bus Power-Up = Default #15 Spectra-TAC Info / MCS Station Info = Spectra-TAC Station Type = Base #16 MCS Station Info / MCS Station Operation = No #17 RA Station Info / On-Cabinet Repeat? = Yes *This has been changed both ways (Yes and No) #18 Wireline Duplex / Full Duplex = No Thanks In Advance Ray KE5VJH rsc...@seabrookfd.com --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bob M. msf5kg...@... wrote: If this was a stand-alone repeater, instead of a base-station, I'd think you have the repeater-activate and repeater-holdin parameters set differently, such that it needs carrier and PL tone to bring up the repeater but the holdin is missing or OFF. However, in a base-station configuration, the only field that has meaning is the receiver audio control / activation. I'd suspect the signal polarity and/or level feeding the CAT controller is incorrect or needs a pull-up on the input. What points in the MSF are you using to supply the COR and CTCSS input signals? Is the CAT set up to require CTCSS? There's an AND/OR switch
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSF5000 CLB Eprom Programming Template
Put a scope on your COR signal and check to make sure it's going lower than 1V and higher than 3.5V. If not, some form of buffer will probably be needed. The CAT expects close to TTL input signals. Also make sure the power supply feeding the CAT stays high enough (typically above 14V) so the on-board regulators operate properly. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 3/2/09, svfdcook rsc...@seabrookfd.com wrote: From: svfdcook rsc...@seabrookfd.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSF5000 CLB Eprom Programming Template To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 12:59 PM I have reprogrammed my eprom and changed the Repeater Control to OFF on Rpt Act and Rpt Hold, since this will be controlled by the CAT- 400. I have also changed In-Cabinet repeat to OFF. The unit is now transmitting and receiving at the same time, however my COR (COS) is dropping in and out, suspect causing to much of a load on the circuit. Suggestions? Opamp? Thanks In Advance, Ray KE5VJH rsc...@seabrookfd.com --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bob M. msf5kg...@... wrote: If this was a stand-alone repeater, instead of a base-station, I'd think you have the repeater-activate and repeater-holdin parameters set differently, such that it needs carrier and PL tone to bring up the repeater but the holdin is missing or OFF. However, in a base-station configuration, the only field that has meaning is the receiver audio control / activation. I'd suspect the signal polarity and/or level feeding the CAT controller is incorrect or needs a pull-up on the input. What points in the MSF are you using to supply the COR and CTCSS input signals? Is the CAT set up to require CTCSS? There's an AND/OR switch or field setting in most CAT products. There's a test point in the SCB that has raw receiver audio. Put a scope or voltmeter on this point and verify that you still have signal coming through when the CAT keys the transmitter. Also verify the PTT signal coming out of the CAT is keying the transmitter when you provide the proper INPUT signals to the CAT. In other words, disconnect the COR and CTCSS lines and activate them manually to see if it's the CAT or the MSF that's not working the way you want. Bob M. == --- On Sun, 3/1/09, svfdcook rsc...@... wrote: From: svfdcook rsc...@... Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 CLB Eprom Programming Template To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 8:57 PM I am looking for some healp from users that have already programmed a CLB unit as a repeater with external controller. Any input on already programmed templates for a MSF 5000 CLB (C74CL7106A) including the appropriate options would be greatly appreciated. I have the eraser and eprom burner, and have burned the eprom a couple of times based on information I have found here and else where, but something must not be configured correctly. I am attempting to connect a CAT-400 and have the CLB (eprom) configued as a base station, however, whenever the unit receives a good signal (CSQPL) from the signal generator, the receives appears to go away once the transmitter goes hot. It is acting like it still has the antenna switch, but that is not correct, I have removed it and installed separate TX/RX for an external duplexer. This is my first posting on a Yahoo group, so I hope I have done it correctly, if not please advise. svfdcook KE5VJH rsc...@...
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola RSS File Structure
So why don't you and Mike and MCH combine all your information and write up an article to be posted on Repeater-Builder? This seems like an interesting topic. As long as you put a disclaimer at the top about not being responsible for any problems that may occur with the operation of the user's radio as a result of modifications made with this information, etc, you should cover your a$$ fairly easily. Bob M. == --- On Sat, 2/14/09, W. H. Phinizy k6...@socal.rr.com wrote: From: W. H. Phinizy k6...@socal.rr.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola RSS File Structure To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 8:27 AM Mike, MCH, et al, Thank you for your comments and particularly the Rosetta Stone for the channel lines of an MT1000 codeplug. Several observations, which may be of interest: (1) The first 14 lines (which appear to be 11 lines for my 16-channel MT1000) are not entirely sacred grounds. It is possible to hack that data to some degree, although at this point, I haven't really investigated it thoroughly and the RSS might just as well provide one enough access...so why bother. By the way, I refer to them as the header data and the channel lines as detail data. (2) I suspect one of the reasons that modifying the header data -- or using a pedestrian editor like Notepad -- doesn't work out is because it/they might truncate the three blank lines between the top of the header data and the part that precedes the detail data. Below, modified to not wrap, is a snippet from a codeplug header. Notice that the line containing the recurring 1234566789+ literals is the first of these three blank lines. The remaining two are polulated woth periods. These were modified (filled with non blanks) adulterated, saved, and re-read without incident. I have not written the codeplug to the radio, so be careful. The point is that so long as there are 48 blanks terminated by a CR/LF (0x0DOA) the code plug seems fine. (3) Of possible interest to hack would be the big long, line of 308NONENONENONENONENONE.. which appears to be the PL table. The format belowis separated into significant tokens for clarity: 308 D023 D023 0693 2336 0719 2418 0744 2503 0719 2541 where: 308 = constant value D023 = Digital 023 (TX RX) for entry one 0693 = TPL 69.3 (TX) for entry two 2336 = TPL 233.6 (RX) for entry two ..etc. Header of 16-channel MT1000: 00F604782YYYABCDEFGHIJ XYZ1ARU0909H445S ENDDD0103084000300303016070... 042NONE NONE 042NONE NONE EEEDXXX 308D023D02306932336071924180744250307192541NONENONE... 123456789+123456789+123456789+123456789+12345678 020007007DDEE0001DDDEDEED1501500500DEK EEDDDNPDE01500502577750790101800080 01562EE100110011001100110011001100110011001100110011001000 D015DD0821649 (4) I use an editor called UltraEdit; it is by far the best product available for software developers. It has a built-in hex editor that can be toggled on or off. By the way, no pecuniary interest here, just a satisfied customer. It is cheap, however, and offers a 45-day trial period. (5) By the way, if one is interested in methodology, it is possible to run the RSS in a DOS window (remember, the radio is NOT being programmed), edit the code plug, read a code plug with RSS, make changes using the RSS, and instantly have the editor alert you that a change has been made so can see the net effects. I tried this on my friend's computer with his RSS and my code plugs. I have not gotten into the HT600 code plugs yet, but I suspect that some of the data blocks are pretty much the same -- or, at least similar. Again, Mike, I am grateful for your insights and the wonderful contributions you and the others have made to the Repeater Builder's site. These areicles have fueled my excitement for these radios. They are great bargains, can be fixed up, and offer reliable and sturdy alternative to the more fragile, higher-priced alternatives. Besides, as a ham, I just like to take things apart and see what makes them tick. 73s, Bill, k6whp Funny you should ask about the Genesis radios. They are the only code plugs that I've really looked closely at. The HT600 and P200 (except low band) are the same radio. The HT600E, MT1000 and low band P200 are the same radio. I have no knowledge of the HT600 code plug, but the MT1000 code plug is straight ASCII text characters that are positioned
Re: [Repeater-Builder] M1225 programming problem
I think Eric and I said exactly the same thing, but my explanation was looking into the radio while Eric's was looking at the business end of the cable. I would NOT recommend any RIB-less cable. Most are powered by the serial port, and some RSS programs don't activate the proper handshaking lines to power the electronics, so it won't work. Other units have the ability to be powered externally; these usually WILL work properly. I'd suggest you try the following experiment: 1. with nothing plugged into the MIC jack, turn the radio on. 2. unplug the RIB cable from everything. 3. plug the RJ45 end of the RIB cable into the radio. NOTHING SHOULD HAPPEN. If the radio transmits at this point, your RIB cable is defective as it's grounding the PTT line. It could also be a short at the RJ45 connector. 4. make sure the RIB is turned off. 5. plug the DB25 end of the RIB cable into the RIB. NOTHING SHOULD HAPPEN. If the radio transmits at this point, you've got more than two wires connected on your RIB cable, including PTT. 6. turn the RIB on. NOTHING SHOULD HAPPEN. If the radio transmits at this point, then you've still got more than two wires connected in your RIB cable. PTT is on pin 6, which is right next to the programming line on pin 7. Verify the wire colors. Use an ohm-meter to make sure you're only using pins 4 and 7 in your RIB cable and make sure pin 6 doesn't go to anything. Bob M. == --- On Fri, 2/6/09, Jeff Clark je...@cruzio.com wrote: From: Jeff Clark je...@cruzio.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] M1225 programming problem To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 9:22 PM Thanks to Bob and Eric for the quick responses. Their descriptions match the batlabs diagram exactly. I've checked everything again, but still have the same problem with the PTT going active, even when powered up in the sequence recommended by Bob :-( I may have to break down and buy one of those rib-less cables on ebay afterall. --jeff At 04:20 PM 2/6/2009, Bob M. wrote: When you are plugging an RJ45 connector into the MIC jack, the tab will either be on the right or on the bottom. If it's on the right, the uppermost pin is #1. If the tab is on the bottom, the rightmost pin is #1. If the MIC jack is oriented some other way, make the appropriate adjustments. Note that this pin numbering may not match any other cable you have, but that's the way Motorola numbers them for a lot of their radios and the pin numbers given below correspond to this orientation. Ground is pin 4. The programming line is pin 7. Those are the only two wires you need for programming purposes. If you crimped all 8 wires into the RJ45 connector, check the other wires at the other end of the cable and make sure they're all clearly insulated and not attached to anything. Also, make sure you connect the cable to the RIB and power up the RIB before plugging the RJ45 connector into the radio. The radio can be turned on before or after you plug the RIB cable into it. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 2/5/09, Jeff Clark je...@cruzio.com wrote: From: Jeff Clark je...@cruzio.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] M1225 programming problem To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 9:22 PM Hope this is the correct group for this kind of question. I'm trying to program two m1225 UHF mobiles with a Polaris PA-II rib and a cable assembled per the batlabs cable page (listed same as GM300). I've checked and double checked the connections on both ends and made sure the tab on the rj45 end is oriented according to the diagram, but when I plug it in to the mic jack and turn on the rib, the radio keys up and stays keyed until I kill the power or pull the plug. I've tried this on both radios with the same result, and I've programmed my P1225s with the same rib, so I'm wondering if the pinout on the rj45 jack is wrong. Are there additional pinouts beside the one listed on the batlabs page? thanks, --jeff, kf6bkg
Re: [Repeater-Builder] M1225 programming problem
When you are plugging an RJ45 connector into the MIC jack, the tab will either be on the right or on the bottom. If it's on the right, the uppermost pin is #1. If the tab is on the bottom, the rightmost pin is #1. If the MIC jack is oriented some other way, make the appropriate adjustments. Note that this pin numbering may not match any other cable you have, but that's the way Motorola numbers them for a lot of their radios and the pin numbers given below correspond to this orientation. Ground is pin 4. The programming line is pin 7. Those are the only two wires you need for programming purposes. If you crimped all 8 wires into the RJ45 connector, check the other wires at the other end of the cable and make sure they're all clearly insulated and not attached to anything. Also, make sure you connect the cable to the RIB and power up the RIB before plugging the RJ45 connector into the radio. The radio can be turned on before or after you plug the RIB cable into it. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 2/5/09, Jeff Clark je...@cruzio.com wrote: From: Jeff Clark je...@cruzio.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] M1225 programming problem To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 9:22 PM Hope this is the correct group for this kind of question. I'm trying to program two m1225 UHF mobiles with a Polaris PA-II rib and a cable assembled per the batlabs cable page (listed same as GM300). I've checked and double checked the connections on both ends and made sure the tab on the rj45 end is oriented according to the diagram, but when I plug it in to the mic jack and turn on the rib, the radio keys up and stays keyed until I kill the power or pull the plug. I've tried this on both radios with the same result, and I've programmed my P1225s with the same rib, so I'm wondering if the pinout on the rj45 jack is wrong. Are there additional pinouts beside the one listed on the batlabs page? thanks, --jeff, kf6bkg
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Manual Request-Motorola RICK
The single-page schematic on BatLabs is complete. That's all it is in the manual. Three 16-pin connectors. Bob M. == --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Joe Serocki joesero...@gmail.com wrote: From: Joe Serocki joesero...@gmail.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Manual Request-Motorola RICK To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 8:34 AM Anyone have a manual? I could use it, especially with the pinouts. I have a schematic, but it only shows half the pinouts! Sheesh J 73 Joe Serocki, N9IFG
Re: [Repeater-Builder] True ValueHardware Software [Hardware] (controller) in your repeater?
Better download the documentation while it's still there. Seems like True Value became Tiny Vital. The products is NLA and not supported. I'd think that NHRC has something comparable. http://www.tinyvital.com/TVS/index.htm Bob M. == --- On Sat, 1/17/09, skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com wrote: From: skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] True ValueHardware Software [Hardware] (controller) in your repeater? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 1:47 PM Re: True Value Software [Hardware](controller) in your repeater? Never heard of the True Value Software TVS-701 Repeater Controller before. Any of you folks got (John Madden) one in a box of yours? True Value software TVS 701 Repeater Controller Ebay Item number: 290289330903 your opinions please..? cheers, s.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater controller to be used with MSF5000
That'll certainly work. Zetron likes to wire things directly to those switches and other various points on the control board. Some stations (including mine) have a TX INHibit input on one of the DB25 connectors on the junction panel; I planned to ground that with a normally-open relay. No soldering (to the control board) involved. The situation I have in mind offers no phone line, no other repeater. So I'm looking for solutions that connect only to my equipment without modification (plug-n-pray). Bob M. == --- On Tue, 1/13/09, hybridfan wa6...@cox.net wrote: From: hybridfan wa6...@cox.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater controller to be used with MSF5000 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 5:55 PM Well, I'm cheap and lazy also. On the front of the control panel is a center off Access Disable switch, SW801 sp3t (on-off-mom). I took a shielded wire, soldered the shield to the center contact and the center to the on contact, i.e., the ACC DIS position. I ran the wire to a friends UHF controller with a spare latching relay. Connected to the N.O. contacts on the relay. Done! One code latches the relay disabling the MSF5000, another unlatches it. P.S. I do plan on putting my own control receiver and DTMF board on line eventually. Have fun! Ken --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bob M. msf5kg...@... wrote: Not only am I cheap, I'm lazy. Building something takes time. I was mainly interested in a product I could buy that just needed power, incoming audio, and a set of dry contacts that could be stuck inside the MSF5000 cabinet and be ready to use in a matter of minutes. The DTMF decoder in the MaxTrac also needs to be programmed, and it uses different software than what would be needed for the MSF5000, of course. Once this is installed, I don't want to be the one they call every time they want to change something. Bob M. == --- On Tue, 1/13/09, nj902 wb0...@... wrote: From: nj902 wb0...@... Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater controller to be used with MSF5000 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 4:33 PM --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bob M. msf5kguru@ wrote: I believe the Motorola DTMF decoder resides in an expansion chassis. ... As you said, both are rare and none of the stations I need to control have an expansion chassis. ... The other suggestions, while innovative, don't seem to decode DTMF, which is what I want to use to control the repeaters. ... -- -- Expansion chassis aren't really all that hard to find, I have gotten several off that e auction site, as a matter of fact there is a current listing of two for $40 buy-it-now. As regards DTMF, the Maxtrac does a fine job of decoding DTMF as I said in my original response: ...to have the Maxtrac decode DTMF you need a small option board or you need to duplicate that circuit on a perf board. ... That option board is available from Motorola parts for $64.60 ready to go, but knowing that hams are cheap, as an alternative I suggested a DIY version on perf board - it's pretty simple - it consists of 2 IC's, a 145436 decoder chip and a 4021 CMOS shift register plus a 3.58 crystal and a few resistors caps.
[Repeater-Builder] Repeater controller to be used with MSF5000
I'm looking for a low-cost, simple, multi-digit DTMF controller to shut an MSF5000 repeater down for legal purposes. I've run across one for under $50 but was wondering if there's something else out there that's built and ready to hook up. Function acknowledgement is not needed; if the repeater stops transmitting when I issue the appropriate command, and I can turn it back on afterwards, I'll be happy. How are you controlling your MSF5000 repeaters (for FCC-required shutdown purposes)? Are you using the repeater's input frequency for control, a separate receiver, or other method? Controller make/model/cost? Interface method (MRTI connector, junction panel DB25 connectors, other)? Thanks. Bob M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater controller to be used with MSF5000
I believe the Motorola DTMF decoder resides in an expansion chassis. I've never encountered a SAM so I don't know where it plugs in. As you said, both are rare and none of the stations I need to control have an expansion chassis. The other suggestions, while innovative, don't seem to decode DTMF, which is what I want to use to control the repeaters. It can be over-the-air on the input frequency, or using another receiver, however that does tend to complicate things one more level. There's already a decent receiver built into the MSF, so I'd rather use that, then I can shut down the repeater using a portable or mobile radio with a DTMF mike. Bob M. == --- On Tue, 1/13/09, nj902 wb0...@arrl.net wrote: From: nj902 wb0...@arrl.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater controller to be used with MSF5000 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 1:26 PM Motorola had two factory options that would allow control of the MSF5000 station, the DTMF decoder and the SAM [Station Access Module]. The SAM card can respond to DTMF, MDC, and other signaling formats and is the most versatile. It was also referred to as the Smart Wildcard. Unfortunately, they are pretty rare, although they sometimes show up surplus since they were used in certain 800 MHz RDLAP mobile data base stations that are at end of Motorola support life. Lacking one of those decoders, a simple solution is to use a Maxtrac. You can do that two ways. For either case, you need a way to get the control function into the station. For CXB stations there is one programmable input line available unless it's already in use. If so, or for CLB stations, an expansion tray with a wildcard is the best way to put signals onto the station's MUXBUS. For example, to control a repeater, you configure an input for 'repeater knockdown'. The first way to use the Maxtrac as your decoder would be to simply connect a decode output from the Maxtrac to your configured MSF repeater knockdown input. That Maxtrac can be configured as a receive only radio on a different frequency than the repeater input. The use of a different frequency is a common sense approach to supervisory control. That radio could also be configured to transmit back an acknowledgement if desired. In order to have the Maxtrac decode DTMF you need a small option board or you need to duplicate that circuit on a perf board. Using MDC, however, doesn't require anything extra. A second solution is to use just the Maxtrac logic board and install it in the same expansion plastic tray where the wildcard board is. Over the air control on the repeater input is acceptable for some applications, for example, enabling one of several mutual aid repeaters that have overlapping coverage or for other functions like enabling or disabling PL operation, changing RF output power level, etc. In this case, you simply feed the raw MSF receive audio to the Maxtrac logic board. It really has no way to know that it doe not have its own RF board. One more trick and an easy way to have several over the air functions from the Maxtrac decoder, is to use the Maxtrac display driver chip to provide your decode outputs. If the Maxtrac, either a complete radio or just a logic board that thinks it's a radio, is programmed for only one channel, its display will normally show the digit 1 at all times. The Maxtrac high tier signaling model has the ability to decode unit ID's and to 'alias' them, in other words to display a number corresponding to the ID received. For example MDC ID 1234 could show in the radio's display as 41. When the radio decodes that ID, it will activate the display segments to show that number. The extra segments, other than the ones that were active for the current channel display digit, are available as outputs to drive your wildcard inputs to set station states. The radio can have up to 99 different ID's in its list. There aren't that many unambiguous display segments available as outputs, but the segment lines could be configured to address a PROM or other simple circuitry to expand the decode capability. In other words, this idea is based on using something that's cheap and readily available - the Maxtrac logic board - to do the hard work of decoding. You could even configure one of these to use MDC ID's for a group of users to enable repeater access only for users that are in your decoder's list. You can even do this with a five pin logic board, one you have left in the parts pile after upgrading radios to use 16 pin boards. The TLN5172 trunking models of the five pin board will run the conventional firmware and initialize fine as conventional high tier signaling. After you initialize the radio, go to the option connector configuration and set everything to NULL
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater controller to be used with MSF5000
Not only am I cheap, I'm lazy. Building something takes time. I was mainly interested in a product I could buy that just needed power, incoming audio, and a set of dry contacts that could be stuck inside the MSF5000 cabinet and be ready to use in a matter of minutes. The DTMF decoder in the MaxTrac also needs to be programmed, and it uses different software than what would be needed for the MSF5000, of course. Once this is installed, I don't want to be the one they call every time they want to change something. Bob M. == --- On Tue, 1/13/09, nj902 wb0...@arrl.net wrote: From: nj902 wb0...@arrl.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater controller to be used with MSF5000 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 4:33 PM --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bob M. msf5kg...@... wrote: I believe the Motorola DTMF decoder resides in an expansion chassis. ... As you said, both are rare and none of the stations I need to control have an expansion chassis. ... The other suggestions, while innovative, don't seem to decode DTMF, which is what I want to use to control the repeaters. ... Expansion chassis aren't really all that hard to find, I have gotten several off that e auction site, as a matter of fact there is a current listing of two for $40 buy-it-now. As regards DTMF, the Maxtrac does a fine job of decoding DTMF as I said in my original response: ...to have the Maxtrac decode DTMF you need a small option board or you need to duplicate that circuit on a perf board. ... That option board is available from Motorola parts for $64.60 ready to go, but knowing that hams are cheap, as an alternative I suggested a DIY version on perf board - it's pretty simple - it consists of 2 IC's, a 145436 decoder chip and a 4021 CMOS shift register plus a 3.58 crystal and a few resistors caps.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Site Generator - First 09 War Story
I was waiting for you to mention the inevitable phone message waiting for you 23 hours later that tells you about the repeat/disable switch you forgot to throw as you walked out the door... What brand genset chewed up its gear? Bob M. == --- On Wed, 1/7/09, skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com wrote: From: skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Site Generator - First 09 War Story To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 7:05 PM Jan. 2009 Site Generator - War Story Well... the first train wreck of 09 hit early in the calendar year. A critical care customer reports a serious problem... off we go to the super remote solar propane radio site. We arrive to find everything looking just peachy... but since it's a 5 hour drive we figure to check every detail and do regular maintenance anyway. Move around some cable to find a one repeater cuts in and out... oh my god, the feed line is *^#$%@ LMR-400 from the original site owner. Out it goes and everything quiets down, life is good once again. Or so we thought... Packed up ready to leave... let's do one last generator test. Switch on to hear a really bad sounding metal on metal grinding noise... quick switched off. Let me give the short version... Genset (generator engine) starter removed to see the most of the flywheel ring gear missing. The grinding noise was the starter chipping teeth off the flywheel ring gear. Bad, very, very bad... Dark clouds form in my head while I/we try to figure out how to fix this remote mountain site cluster #...@%. We resign ourselves to at least get the major pull-down part of the repair started, then think about how to allocate resources and dive into pulling the genset apart. Much to our surprise... we properly unbolted 10,000 items to end up with the flywheel in our hands 3 hours later. Down the mountain to the nearest, largest nearby town where we quickly relearn how nothing happens or moves fast in Hooterville. So I ask and find a local full-service machine shop and off we go. The appended version is the machine shop did a fix to the ring gear and repressed it on the flywheel while we ate a late lunch. I had a RB sandwich with fries... and Ice Tea of course. Picked up the beast (repaired flywheel) and off we went back to the site... Another 2 hours or so to reinstall the flywheel and restore the unit. Big smile as I hit the switch to hear the engine cleanly roar to life every time. Down the mountain we go... dirty, mangy and might unclean but no longer wanted men (sorry to those of you who get the AC/DC reference). Forget the decafe coffee, stocked up with 20oz French Roast (light cream), snacks, a recently renewed XM-Radio subscription and start the long drive home. Walked back in the shop door some 23 hours after we left... So, how was your day? cheers, skipp skipp025 at yahoo.com www.radiowrench.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Transmitter fingerprinting?
I passed your question to a friend who used to do this kind of thing for the Coast Guard. Here's what he had to say: I am using the Motron TXID transmitter Fingerprinter; Motron shows it has been discontinued. I am not aware of any similar products on the market. A phone call to them might uncover a used unit. The software that I have works in DOS and requires a discriminator connection to the receiver. I am using the IC7000. I found some discussion at: http://kb9mwr.blogspot.com/2008_04_01_archive.html Hope this helps. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 1/7/09, w1ik w...@arrl.net wrote: From: w1ik w...@arrl.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Transmitter fingerprinting? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 4:57 PM I searched the archives, and did not see this issue addressed. Please forgive me if this has been covered before. Is there anyone here utilizing any form of transmitter fingerprinting software and/or hardware to identify sources of interference, either intentional or otherwise? Can you please provide me with an explanation of just how you are accomplishing this? Your experience and expertise would be greatly appreciated! Thank you! 73 William J. (Jim) Wickstrom, W1IK/NNN0AHC Technical Director, Utica/Shelby Emergency Communication Association (USECA) w1ikatarrldotnet www.usecaarc.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reed vs. Reedless Boards in Mitrek Radios
You may find that after the PL signal goes through the modulator, the distortion is even lower. It also probably doesn't matter too much; 1% is still 40dB down. You probably don't know (yet) what component is producing that little bit of signal either; it could be some high-frequency noise coming out of the circuit itself, rather than actual distortion of the sine wave or an actual harmonic of the PL tone. If the reed is being overdriven in an attempt to make sure it oscillates, it could be bumping into something inside and causing distortion that way. Don't they use wide-band noise to get the reed going in the first place? Some synthesized radios (i.e. MaxTracs) use two output lines from the microprocessor that get summed in a two-resistor D/A converter. This feeds a low-pass filter before joining the modulation path. The filtering has to allow for all PL tones up to about 250 Hz, but it doesn't have to be flat; radio alignment can make up for some of that. Yet the PL tone is fairly pure. MSF5000s use a four-bit D/A converter for their PL encoder, so I would expect it to be even more pure than a MaxTrac. Spectras and GTXs do everything inside an IC, so only The Minds of Motorola truly know what goes on in them. Every time I try to measure the distortion of a MaxTrac's transmit audio, I find it to be in the 3% range, even with low levels of modulation, at 400 and 1000 Hz. Since you're in California, I'm sure your readings will be lower! Sounds like a bit more research and investigation is in order. Could be a nice topic for a Repeater-Builder article. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net wrote: From: Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Reed vs. Reedless Boards in Mitrek Radios To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 8:26 PM I recently acquired a Kenwood HM-250 Audio Distortion Analyzer, and I have been experimenting with various CTCSS tone encoders to find which produce the purest tones. Since I am putting together a 6m repeater using Mitrek radios, I wanted to compare the older HLN4020B reed board to the newer HLN4181A reedless board. What an eye-opener! At the outset, my gut feeling was that the reed board would produce a purer tone than the digital reedless board, since the reeds are essentially tuning forks. That turned out to be a false assumption. With two known-good tone boards hooked up on the bench, the 4020B reed board consistently produced a 127.3 Hz tone with distortion ranging from 0.75% to 1.52%, while the 4181A reedless board produced the same tone with only 0.43% distortion. I adjusted the output level pot (R23) on the 4181A board to match the output level of the 4020B board. I tested the 4020B board with six 127.3 Hz reeds. Another interesting fact emerged from my experiment: Although the PL tone reeds can be plugged into their sockets in either of two positions, I found that there was definitely a difference in the amount of distortion produced. The differences ranged from 0.1% up to 0.6%- not much, but surprising, since the reeds are supposedly symmetrical. I got similar results with KLN6209A, KLN6210A, and TLN6824A reeds. For comparison, I measured the distortion at 127.3 Hz from several pieces of test equipment, with the following results: HP 204B Audio Generator: 0.24% Motorola R2600D Service Monitor: 0.26% Wavetek 188 Audio Generator: 0.19% CSI TE-64D Tone Generator: 0.76% My next step is to evaluate the purity of the CTCSS tones after passing through an RF link. Some radios- cheap ones especially- use rather coarse tone synthesis techniques to generate PL tones, and the resulting tones are prone to falsing and talk-off problems. Stay tuned... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GM 300 Question
The MaxTrac/GM300 radios use one of several methods for changing channels remotely: 1. one input line to revert to a known channel, 2. two input lines: one to go UP, one to go DOWN, 3. four input lines which you program with a binary code: thru to select the desired channel. Of the various methods, the one where you tell the radio which channel to go to is far more reliable. The others depend on you knowing where the radio is before you tell it to change because there is NO feedback of any kind. If you want something that's very user-friendly and may even provide feedback in some way, you're better off with an Icom, Kenwood, or Yaesu radio. The Motorola link radios you're using just don't have what you want. Bob M. == --- On Sat, 12/27/08, rrath rr...@charter.net wrote: From: rrath rr...@charter.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] GM 300 Question To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, December 27, 2008, 11:05 PM I have a GM300 as a link radio on my repeater. We will change channels using the accessory jack on the back and the NHRC DTMF Remote +. My question is this: Has anyone done the same thing? If so, how do you know what link channel you are on? I know you are thinking the channel you DTMF'ed to go to. Correct, but do you have a confirmation report over the repeater confirming the link freq? We would like some sort of confirmation report over the repeater. Any thoughts or ideas or what worked for you. Thank you. Rod kc7vqr
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Astron P/S question
I think both Mark (the original poster) and I were WAITING for you to jump in and offer your comments, but you were out-of-service for the last few weeks and your absense was felt. So today's questions are (in your experience): 1. Does the supply just fold-back the current if the output is shorted? 2. Does the supply just fold-back the current if the crowbar SCR fires? 3. Can anything simple be done to prevent the crowbar from firing when the supply operates in a strong RF environment? 4. Is the crowbar firing due to RF, or is the output voltage actually going high enough to trip the SCR, thus making it fire for the purpose it's there for? Hopefully the answers you post will be more detailed than: It depends, Maybe, or Yes and No. Bob M. == --- On Fri, 12/26/08, skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com wrote: From: skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Astron P/S question To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, December 26, 2008, 12:55 PM wb6fly wb6...@... wrote: I should point out that Astron has made several significant changes to the RS-series regulator boards over the past 20 years, Amen... notice how I've been steering clear of this thread? There are/were so many board revisions and design shortfalls that I just didn't want to patch their circuit, which is the reason I choose to start making my own. For what it's worth, almost every Astron regulator board I've seen has a few extra resistors or capacitors added to it, as if each one was customized during manufacture. Yep, parts were added to make the main board work for different models. As one example the crowbar circuit on some models is right on the regulator board, others external and case mounted. I have a parts table for the various Astron Regulator boards so if you smoke a resistor (or any other part) I can probably tell you the original value. According to Fred, Astron's lead technician, some components are still being changed to make the units more stable- decades after the original design! They still appear to have not closely read and applied the LM-723 chip engineering data sheet. My original replacement regulator board is still pretty much the same circuit although the next generation pc board will appear slightly different. Since there are so many regulator board part versions based on the model and type of supply... it's hard to single out a specific problem unless I/we know your a bit of the internal details about your supply. The original problematic regulator circuit suffers from susceptibility to RF, less than optimal engineering in the SCR detect and trigger/ fire circuit, sometimes not so great parts placement and soldering. It's sometimes hard to know what power supply regulator board version and chassis layout you really have without lifting the lid to have a look. cheers, skipp skipp025 at yahoo.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Astron P/S question
I think they do, but only if the supply is putting out current to the load and the current exceeds the value they've set for it. The crowbar firing definitely exceeds the current limit but it's so sudden and complete that the design and component values just cause the fuse to instantaneously blow. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 12/24/08, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com wrote: From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Astron P/S question To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 12:59 PM I don't disagree with you, but it seems odd to me. Doesn't Astron use the current fold-back feature of the 723? If they do, it should just foldback due to overcurrent. If they don't, well, the fuse is the only salvation. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: wb6fly wb6...@verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:28 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Astron P/S question Laryn, If the power supply were a switching design, current foldback would occur. But, in the typical Astron RS-series linear supply, the firing of the SCR puts a bolted short on the output. As soon as the large capacitors on the output start to lose their charge, the regulator tries to maintain the output voltage by turning on the pass transistors to full conduction, quickly exceeding the current ratings of the transformer and rectifier diodes and blowing the fuse. Every time this has happened to an Astron RS supply (that I have personal knowledge of), it has blown the fuse. Every time. Odd that your experience is different. The fuse ratings are specified by Astron to ensure that they will blow under such conditions. Because of their (RS-series) relative instability in high-RF environments, I now install only Duracomm, Samlex, and Astron switching power supplies. Lightweight, very efficient, and very reliable. 'Nuff said. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron P/S question
First, I have a much bigger trash can at my house, so you can send that supply my way ! No sense wasting it in YOUR trash can. Second, if the supply output voltage did change as a function of load, then the 723 regulator is not doing its job. I can tell you that the whole idea of a regulated power supply is to maintain the output voltage regardless of load, at least until something draws excessive current. I set all of my supplies to 14.00VDC and label them as such; haven't had a problem in 20 years. The crowbar shouldn't fire until about 16 volts, but it certainly IS sensitive to RF, and if a lot is floating around, that can definitely trigger it. Whether it's the SCR itself, or the sense circuit driving it, something is causing it to fire and blow the fuse. You'd need to measure the actual output voltage of the supply to see if it's going that high or if the SCR is being falsely triggered. Of course, you only get one shot at trying it before the fuse blows. Astron supplies will not turn on if there's a significant load on them when AC power is applied. I had one powering a 90w amplifier that drew about 16 amps. If drive was applied when I turned the Astron supply on, it would output zero volts. I had to remove the drive, thus removing the load, then turn the supply on, then turn the drive on. Most of the time this isn't a problem. It does the same thing with a 1/2 ohm load attached to the output terminals; goes into immediate current overload foldback. Seems to be happy to sit that way, but of course you don't get any output voltage. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 12/22/08, n9wys n9...@ameritech.net wrote: From: n9wys n9...@ameritech.net Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron P/S question To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 1:17 PM Since I’m the one who started this thread, I think it is incumbent upon me to let the collective masses know how I am proceeding… To date, I have added additional filter caps (0.1 µf disc caps) to the SCR (GATE to GND) and across the output of the supply. I have already affixed ferrites to both ends of the cabling going from the supply to the PA. I am still blowing fuses. I am planning on adding caps from each output line (POS and NEG) to chassis ground. I was also told to dial down the output voltage a bit (it is at 13.8V now) to around 13.2V, because the Astron “ramps up” the voltage to its transistors as the supply nears rated capacity, which closes the gap between the operating voltages and where the SCR triggers. Can anyone confirm this? In the end if these fixes fail, I will be relegating the Astron to other duties (AKA: the trash can). I temporarily replaced the Astron supply with a 75A switching supply, and so far no problems – even after 30 minutes of steady operation of the repeater. (The Astron would fail after about 10 – 15 minutes of operation.) I was able to get my hands on a service monitor – the building is not shielded in any way, so there is RF all over the place. The only major peak we saw, however, was about 11.7 MHZ down from the center freq of my UHF repeater (the repeater TX is at 444.5500, the bump was at 437.8500) and after some testing we found it was from the switcher. It does not seem to be affecting the receiver of my repeater… For now, I think I’m going to stay with the switcher, until I am sure we have found a permanent fix for the Astron. Besides, with the current temp at -2°F, I’m in no hurry to go to the tower site. grin How ‘bout it, Skipp?? Any ideas? I know you’ve been away and busy, but I hope you are catching up on the thread… Mark - N9WYS
Re: [Repeater-Builder] fan timer circuit
I would think that the person who designed it, and submitted it for posting on r-b, built and tested it. Did you have a problem with it? Do you think there's an error in the diagram? If so, it should be fixed. Please provide more info. Bob M. == --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Michael Ryan mryan...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: From: Michael Ryan mryan...@tampabay.rr.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] fan timer circuit To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 1:57 PM I was directed by someone on the reflector here some months back, to a cooling fan timer circuit that is posted on the repeater builders website. I wonder if anyone has tried to build this? - Thanks - Mike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Receiver
Some of them don't idle exactly at zero. I've got a low-band strip that idles at 3-4uA. If you've gone through the full alignment procedure, including adjustment of the discriminator and IF stages with a strong on-frequency IF signal, that's all you can do. Component tolerances and crystal frequencies are throwing it off just a bit. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 12/18/08, mike m...@verizon.net wrote: From: mike m...@verizon.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Receiver To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 9:19 PM I looked in the files section but didn't see anything about the discriminator circuit. The receiver I'am working on is an unmodified Micor UHF 450-470mhz. I have had the channel element recrystaled by ICM for 455.xxx. After going through the alignment. I tried to adjusted the discriminator to 0 by shorting the AFC circuit as discribed in the manual. I can bring discriminator to zero but after removing the short it drifts up to 1 on the meter. It sounds okay and the receiver sensitivity is within factory specs. I don't understand why the discriminator drifts up after tuning it. Any info on this would be helpful Thanks and Happy holidays to everyone Mike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MSF 5000 vhf power amp TLD2692A manual query
I've got a manual that has that PA in it. Not much there except a power splitter, two FET PA modules (undocumented), a power combiner, and a power sensor. There's some troubleshooting charts and some parts lists, but absolutely nothing on the actual PA modules themselves. Most of the sheets are big fold-outs. Those with circuit board layouts are in color. It would take considerable time to scan them, plus it would be a very big file. Easier to make copies at the local copy center, but that wouldn't happen for several days and would cost several dollars plus postage. I can give you specific info from the manual a lot faster. Bob M. == --- On Sun, 12/14/08, ghbyrkit ghbyr...@chartermi.net wrote: From: ghbyrkit ghbyr...@chartermi.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSF 5000 vhf power amp TLD2692A manual query To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 11:54 AM Hi, I've got an MSF 5000 VHF power amp, TLD2692A. Does anyone have a manual for this beast, or can you point me to a link for one? My meager attempts at google-fu didn't show anything that I could identify as such, nor any on eBay, nor R-B website. Thanks so much for reading, especially if you can help! 73, George K9TRV (Technical Coordinator for ARROW, W8PGW.org)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MSF-5000 PL encode deviation
As others have said, the PL/DPL deviation is NOT separately adjustable. It's a fixed percentage of the total deviation. It is very clean however, so even though it might measure rather high, it'll be quite inaudible. You'd have to add a resistor somewhere to lower just the PL level. Make sure you measure and set the deviation with the PL turned on. Your total deviation should be set for 4.5 to 5.0 kHz; it will be less without PL. I haven't seen a spec on the PL/DPL deviation in any MSF manual either. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Ralph Hogan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ralph Hogan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSF-5000 PL encode deviation To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 10:43 PM Gang, New to MSF-5000's. Great piece of hardware. But more used to working with GE Mastr II's. Have an MSF-5000 repeater we're trying to get going on VHF. Have experimented with both the on-board controller stand alone as well as off board CAT. Several ee-pots to adjust in the software setting output audio levels, but none specific to just PL encode level. We got it adjusted for 5 KHz output deviation, but noticed the PL encode deviation is a little high at about 900 Hz. I usually like to see around 600 to 750 Hz. I couldn't find in the manuals anywhere what Moto spec'd PL deviation at for the MSF-5000. Looks like the PL level is a fixed percentage without an independent output level adjust. Probably something we are doing wrong in setting levels, but wanted to get some feedback from the group. Thanks in advance! Ralph W4XE
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Opinions on telewave duplexers
I think it's just a matter of personal preference and where you're located. Check with some other site owners and get their opinions too. I've dealt with Telewave and their phone and e-mail support is quick and helpful. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Jed Barton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Jed Barton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Opinions on telewave duplexers To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 2:15 AM Hey guys, I am in the process of designing a rather large repeater system. Any thoughts on telewave duplexers? I've heard a lot of great things about them, but the only thing I have to compare it with is txrx. Thoughts? Thanks, Jed
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron P/S question
I've had DMMs also go nuts at my site too. Luckily the Astron supply hasn't had that problem yet. The fuse usually blows when something catastrophic happens. One such thing is when the output voltage goes too high and the built-in SCR crowbar fires. It shorts the supply immediately, and the excess current usually causes the fuse to blow. Sometimes it also causes the diodes to short out, and they end up blowing the fuse. RF getting back into the supply can trip the SCR. Even RF riding on the supply lines can cause the voltage that the SCR sees to be high enough to trip it, even though it may not show up with a meter or even a scope. You've probably done all you can with the ferrites unless you missed the wires going to the SCR. On some supplies it's mounted to the chassis and has fairly long wires (just waiting to pick up RF) running to it. You'd be better off with ANY kind of unregulated power supply, such as what you had with the MICOR supply. Ferro-resonant transformers usually aren't susceptible to such RF problems, and there's nothing electronic such as a crowbar inside to trip and blow the fuse. This doesn't explain why your MICOR supply blew its fuse, unless you exceeded the output current capability. Most MICORs were only rated up to 100 watts, and the supplies probably are good to 25-30 amps MAX; it seems that your PA is already exceeding that. Then you tack on a receiver, exciter, etc, and you've gone past the limit for the MICOR supply. Even an MSF5000 supply would be strained to handle that much current; that's why the bigger stations have TWO supplies, one for each PA, and the VHF stations have 28V supplies in them. Solutions? You might consider a battery and a charger that's strong enough to keep the PA happy, to run just the PA. Split everything else off and run that on another smaller supply. Consider a switching regulator supply, rather than a linear regulator supply, to run the rest of the equipment. I know that some of the high power amps are now being built to run on 24-28VDC. This cuts the current consumption in half and they can be run with switching supplies. Let's hope Skip comes aboard here. I know he's had experience with these units. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 12/8/08, n9wys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: n9wys [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Astron P/S question To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 10:20 AM For the learned group here… I know there has been some discussion on one the list regarding Astron Power supplies. Unfortunately, searching hasn’t revealed what I am looking for, so I pose my query here and apologize in advance if this was a subject that was discussed at length in the past… I will describe my problem in detail, so forgive me for being so verbose right off the bat; but I figure if I provide a lot of info now, it will avoid a lot of question and answer exchanges later in order to get an understanding of my problem. I have a UHF ham repeater system (TKR-820 as transmitter, MICOR SpectraTAC receiver and comparator, Astron RM-70 Power Supply, and Crescend 150W P/A) that is experiencing issues with the power supply. Seems that when the repeater is on the air for any time (for example, over three minutes key-down) the power supply blows a fuse. The first time this happened, I changed out the P/S with a MICOR supply I had from a 100W continuous duty station. It also blew THAT fuse… The Astron supply that blew the fuse had two bad diodes in the rectifier, so that was repaired. There was nothing found wrong with the Motorola supply, other than the main fuse had blown. I took the PA back to Crescend, but they found nothing wrong with the P/A. The station was put back on the air with the repaired Astron supply. Was on the air for about two weeks, and failed again while I was talking to another ham. Went back to the tower and found the fuse blown again in the supply. I took the PA offline and brought it back to Crescend, told them of the issue with the P/S, and that I needed them to check the PA for problems. Their service tech called me and said he’d had the PA running on his workbench as we spoke, and had it transmitting for about 45 minutes with no problems – all operating within spec (~32A nominal - 38A max draw @ 165W output). After we talked some more, he said he’d leave it run all night. If it was OK, he’d ship it back. I got the PA back the following Tuesday. I put the station back on the air… In the meantime, I spoke with an engineer from Crescend who told me that they had some experience with RF getting into Astron supplies… so when I took the PA back to the tower, I put ferrites on the A+ and ground leads to the P/S from the PA. (There are about 10 wires altogether in the power cable going to the PA – two bundles of three A+, and four Grounds.) I put three ferrites altogether on the DC lines, and made three turns through
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re:800 MHZ RECEIVER
Just about every Motorola 800 MHz radio is designed to transmit in the 806-825 MHz range and transmit and receive in the 851-870 MHz range. There are several issues you need to overcome: 1. The software can be over-ridden by hex-editing the MAXTRAC.MDF file. 2. Those radios have good front end filters that only pass 850-870 MHz. You could remove or short them out and then the receiver might hear something around 806-825 MHz. 3. These radios operate by mixing the input signal with a second signal. This produces a sum and difference signal. The radio only accepts the difference signal, which is about 45 MHz. The VCO in the radio, which determines the operating frequency, normally operates about 45 MHz below the frequency you want to hear. Due to the mixing process, you can also get it to receive something if you get the VCO to operate about 45 MHz above the frequency you want it to hear. The front-end filters prevent the radio from normally hearing the other signal. To get it to receive 813 MHz, it has to operate at 858 MHz. To fool it into doing that, you'd need to program it to receive a frequency 45 MHz above that, or 903 MHz. Then the software will tell you it's out of range, so you're back to step 1. You might have better luck with an 800 MHz SpectraTAC receiver, as they're designed and built to receive 806-825 MHz. You just have to find one, order a channel element on the frequency you want to hear, tune the receiver, and you're good to go. Unfortunately, they're not programmable, and channel elements cost about $50 to recrystal, so you better be darn sure about the frequency you want to pick up. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 12/8/08, Mike Dietrich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mike Dietrich [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re:800 MHZ RECEIVER To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 6:55 PM Hello to the group, I am trying to make a maxtrac or gtx 800 radio receive down on 813 mhz which it normally doesn't reveive on. All of the software says it's out of range and won't accept it. Any ideas whether it will work and/or how to do it? Thanks in advance, Mike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] SSCB
Must have been a serious short circuit on the 9.6V line to burn the inner foil. I'm very surprised. Are you just missing 9.6V on various ICs, or has that foil actually shorted to other layers? Did it take anything else with it (like the 9.6V line in the flat cable that plugs into the SSCB)? Theoretically any VHF/UHF/800 MHz SSCB should work in that unit. There's no physical difference between a CXB and an RLB in the area you've got problems with. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 12/4/08, k6kusman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: k6kusman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] SSCB To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 7:37 PM Happy Holidays to everyone. I want to have one but my poor C63RLB7106BT's SSCB is totally gonzo. We have checked everything over very carefully and have found the distrubtion section of the 9.6v part of the sscb is burnt in like layer 2 and 3 of the board..so.. it would seem that the board is totally gone. What I need to find is the fairly newer TLN3385 SSCB. I know that U people should be the best source for finding one of these. The SSCB that was in it was the 3198 but the newer service manual does say to replace that with the 3385 so PLEASE searce your stockpiles of goodies and see if ya can find one for me. It's a lonely MSF 5000 limited without it's SSCB. Thanks again.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola Duplexer Info Needed
There is an older T1500-series manual on the web site that goes along with this Yahoo! Group. There are two rather different coupling loop assemblies/setups in those cans: those that arranged for the notch ABOVE the passband, and those that are arranged for the notch BELOW the passband. I doubt you can arbitrarily reverse them. The various cable sets are only documented by the colored dots on the connectors. I didn't see any actual cable lengths. I think they use the same unit on the Quantar and there might be a newer document in that manual, but I doubt anything has changed in those cans in 30 years. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Joe Burkleo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Joe Burkleo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola Duplexer Info Needed To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 4:20 PM Bill, That is interesting that you are having the problem with the duplexer not tuning down to 440.8. This duplexer that I have will tune down to at least 440.0 with no problem on the duplexer running out of pass tuning range. The problem that I am having is with the notch sliding adjustment on the top of the cans running out of adjustment range on the notch tuning. The screwdriver pass tuning adjustments on the front of the unit have plenty of range. I never did run them all the way in just to see how far they would go, but they will go well below 440.8. I will try your suggestion of tuning it up on the higher end of the band tonight if I get home early enough. I have one of these style duplexers on our 444.525/449.525 225 watt Micor repeater running at 150 watts with a Angle linear preamp on the receiver with no problems, so I know they can be made to work at the higher end of the band. I don't think a T1500 deries duplexer will perform as well at that power level. I was hoping someone had a manual that covered the duplexer. I can not find any reference to the specifications or parts list in the MSR or MSF manuals that I have. Thanks, Joe --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bill Hudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe You just happen to have one of the series of duplexers that does not make it all the way down into the bottom of the ham band at 440.xxx Mhz. If it truly is the Motorola duplexer out of the MSR2000 series repeaters, they - in fact - do not tune down to the bottom of the band. The original T-1500 series duplexers make it fine, but the mechanics of the tuning in these specific cavities bottom out before making it to the lowest part of the 440 - 450 MHz. band. What you are experiencing is normal. Trying tuning it up in the 444.9 / 449.9 range, and you will see it works fine. Maybe you can trade it with one that you know will be going on a higher frequency. Interesting timing on your post. I just became aware of this myself a couple of months ago. Bill - W6CBS _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Burkleo Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Duplexer Info Needed Hello, I have a Motorola 4 can duplexer out of a UHF MSR2000 series radio that is the pass/notch style. I am pretty sure Motorola also used this same duplexer on the MSF5000 series of radios. I can not find any info on this unit and I am having a problem with the notch on the low pass side. I can not seem to adjust the notch past 4.5 MHz spacing. It will adjust down to 3 MHz spacing just fine. The notch on the high pass side adjusts just fine and will actually go a little beyond the 5 MHz spacing. The pass adjusts properly on both sections of the duplexer. It was originally on 464/469 and I retuned it to 440.8/445.8. The notch problem was there on the original frequency as well. I am using a IFR A-7550 analyzer/tracking generator for alignment. the duplexer has very good insertion loss and the notches are -100 db, so it is meeting specs very well, other than the one notch being off. Has anyone ran across this before or have any ideas. I though I would ask the group, before I started drilling out pop rivets to disassemble the cans from the mounting bracket. Thanks, Joe
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola CDM1250 COS
I understand and agree with all that, but is there a 20-pin connector available, and if so, what's the part number? Someone might want to make their own cable for a CDM some day and make it idiot-proof. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Brian Poellnitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Brian Poellnitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola CDM1250 COS To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 9:37 AM The 16-pin connectors work just fine on CDM mobiles. They install on the middle 16 pins, leaving one pair of unonnected pins on each side. I worked for a Moto shop a few years back and we used them frequently. If I remember right, even the Moto documentation states this. He should be fine for most applications, unless he needs a function that can only be found on one of the outside 4 pins. These radios could be used with a RICK, so I think the 16-pin plug would have everything. 73s de N4BWP Bob M. wrote: Eric: is the HLN9242A accessory kit you mention for 16-pin or 20-pin jacks? There are several eBay sellers of 16-pin connectors and pre-terminated wires for use on many Motorola radios, but I haven't seen any 20-pin plugs. Bob M.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola CDM1250 COS
Eric: is the HLN9242A accessory kit you mention for 16-pin or 20-pin jacks? There are several eBay sellers of 16-pin connectors and pre-terminated wires for use on many Motorola radios, but I haven't seen any 20-pin plugs. Bob M. == --- On Sun, 11/30/08, Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola CDM1250 COS To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 11:16 AM Tom, Forget about using the microphone connector on a CDM radio for any purpose other than connecting a microphone, handset, or programming cable. All of the radio status signals you might need are available at the rear accessory connector. Unless every programmable output pin is already being used, you can simply insert a contact in an open space in the existing accessory plug, and you're ready to rock. Pins 4, 8, 12, and 14 can be programmed in CPS to provide CSQ detect or PL and CSQ detect. I suggest using PL and CSQ Detect as the logic indicator for a valid signal. Just purchase the HLN9242A Accessory Connector Kit from Motorola Parts for about $5, and use one of the pre-terminated wires in the kit to insert into the existing accessory connector, and program that pin in CPS to do what you want. Very important! The accessory pins on CDM radios have an oddball numbering, since they have 20 pins while MaxTrac, GM300, and similar radios have 16 pins. Rather than screw up the arrangement of the original 16 pins, Motorola simply added two pins to the left side and two pins to the right side. When you are facing the rear of the radio, the top row of pins are numbered left-to-right as follows: 20-2-4-6-8-10-12-14-16-18, and the bottom row of pins are numbered left-to-right as follows: 19-1-3-5-7-9-11-13-15-17. The HLN9242A plug has 16 contacts, and fits in the middle of the 20 pins on the radio. If pin 7 (logic ground) is already in use, just use chassis ground or the negative power lead as your logic return. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Oliver Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:06 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola CDM1250 COS Ok how about PL logic signal? tom - Original Message - From: Mike Mullarkey mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: 11/30/2008 7:05:27 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola CDM1250 COS NO you will need to get is from the connector on the back. From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Oliver Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:25 PM To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola CDM1250 COS Does anyone know if COS signal is available at the mic jack on a CDM 1250 mobile radio? Rear accy jack is being used by other stuff. tom
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VHF Engineering
I seem to recall a few years ago VHF Engineering asked Repeater-Builder to remove almost all the manuals posted there. VHF Engineering wanted to be the sole provider of such information, for whatever reasons they had. Naturally they don't have ALL the manuals, so a few do remain on r-b. I'll wait for someone closer to the situation to comment. Bob M. == --- On Tue, 11/18/08, aa4ji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: aa4ji [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VHF Engineering To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 8:51 AM I have two(2) full sets of mauals and schematics (receivers,transmitters, CORs, controlers, and power supply) for VHF Engineering Repeaters. It also has the programing information. I would like to donate one set for use and publication on our site for all to use but do not know how. Please contact me and trll me if it is needed and hw I may send it for use if it is. Thank You AA4JI member.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VHF Engineering
Sorry, wrong company. My bad. So send us all your VHF Engineering stuff that's related to repeaters. Bob M. == --- On Tue, 11/18/08, Kevin Custer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kevin Custer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] VHF Engineering To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 6:54 PM Bob M. wrote: I seem to recall a few years ago VHF Engineering asked Repeater-Builder to remove almost all the manuals posted there. VHF Engineering wanted to be the sole provider of such information, for whatever reasons they had. Naturally they don't have ALL the manuals, so a few do remain on r-b. I'll wait for someone closer to the situation to comment. That was/is Hamtronics. VHF Engineering went out of business long ago, and I have no problem hosting any/all information we can get or produce. Kevin
Re: [Repeater-Builder] isolator
Have you checked the web site that accompanies this Yahoo! Group? Bob M. == --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] isolator To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 11:01 PM Hi all, I have aquired a EMR Isolator, model 7450/4 for 150-170 Mhz and tuned to 155 MHz. It has 3 tuning adjustments so need to retune it. Can anyone give info as to how to tune it or where I can get info. EMR has good info on what it does and how it works, but found nothing at their site on tuning. Tune for low SWR, max power out, min smoke, etc??? 73, ron, n9ee/r
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Diamond X510 Failure
Go with the shorter antenna, but if you need/want the higher gain and your antenna is side-mounted to a tower, consider adding an anti-sway support near the top of the antenna. I've got one on my 20+ foot UHF Super Station Master antenna. It was pricey ($250US) and I don't think it was installed properly, but basically it's a pole with a plastic ring at the end that slips over the antenna. The pole mounts to the tower with two clamps and it keeps the top half of the antenna in one spot. Some rubber O-rings fit around the antenna to fill the gap and make a snug fit. Of course this only works on a side-mount antenna; if yours is mounted at the top of a tower you can't use this accessory. Another common failure of these antennas: the capacitors at the bottom give up easily when there's a nearby lightning strike. The values may not be easy to get. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Gmail - Kevin, Natalia, Stacey Rochelle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Gmail - Kevin, Natalia, Stacey Rochelle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Diamond X510 Failure To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 4:31 AM HI All, After 15 years of faithful service our Diamond X510 dual-band RX antenna has failed. We started getting some noise and poor signal input to the 2mtr repeater. We had decided to check the 2x X510 antennas (1x TX and 1x RX). A couple of weeks ago the TX was checked and found to still be in fairly good condition, we did however solder the crimp joints. Today we pulled the top antenna down which runs the 2mtr RX and the 70cm repeater. Once we opened the antenna we found that it had come apart just above the bottom joint, and the very top of the element was split. Now we know why the RX had turned bad. No recovery for this antenna. We want to replace it with something that can be used for the 2mtr and 70cm repeaters. So far other then the antenna dual-band antennas there is nothing to replace it with from a commercial type. But maybe there is something that could be used? There is a thought that maybe due to the lenght of the antenna and the winds we get up on the hill this has added to the damage. We are thinking to replace it with a Diamond X300 dual-band, a third shorter and a little less gain. Any thoughts on a replacement would be helpful, I will pass it onto the other trustees. Regards and Thanks for reading this email. Kevin, ZL1KFM. Owner/Trustee.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] SSCB MAJOR Problem
No board to offer, but also check the 9.6V supply on the RF tray. It is needed by the SSCB. Also check ALL the fuses in the station power supply. There should be ample current availability of the 5V supply to run the SSCB. Disconnect any other boards you may have plugged into it, including any expansion tray. The board itself doesn't draw that much power at 14V (probably an amp or two). I've connected +14V and ground to an SSCB on the bench and had it come up, although it does display tons of error codes, most related to the fact that nothing else is plugged in and it has no 9.6V so all the analog circuitry is dead. But at least you can troubleshoot the supply on the bench this way. I recall there are some low-value resistors under the board that form a current shunt. These can go bad, or the foil feeding them can burn up. This is just a fairly simple switching power supply. Should be repairable with a schematic and PCB layout. Bob M. == --- On Sun, 11/9/08, k6kusman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: k6kusman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] SSCB MAJOR Problem To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 10:36 AM Hello all. I seem to have a SSCB on my msf that has gone. well.. tit's up!. I can boot the station but all that happens is a few of the led's willcome onand the display will show 888 for a few moments then go blank. It would seem that the SSCB has gone away. I have checked the +5v regulated supply and it seem's to be working though it will load down to about 3.4v then I put the jumper back in.. Unloaded it's showing 4.8v. So.. would it be the 5v supply or?.. To make life real simple I was hoping someone would have an extra SSCB p/n TLN3189A05 that they would be willing to part with fairly cheap. Contact me off list if this is the case. Thanks in advance for any help.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Low band Maratracs on 10m
Read the MaraTrac articles. Modify the programming software and see how it works. You might have to add some ferrite cores in the RX front end coils to bring the sensitivity up a bit at 28 MHz, if you need to go that low, but as the radio is already spec'd to 29.7 and you probably don't need much lower than 29.6, it will most likely make it without modification. Let the rest of us know how you make out. Bob M. == --- On Tue, 10/21/08, Ethercrash [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ethercrash [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Low band Maratracs on 10m To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 6:20 PM I see a lot of discussion about 6m conversions for Maratracs... I'm curious about using the low-split model (RF board HLB4099) on 10m FM. The stated range for these units is 29.7 - 36 MHz roughly. Not a huge stretch down into the 10m repeater band. I have a 10m repeater in the conceptual stages, and I've had good results with Maratracs on high band and 440. I'd really like to use them on this machine too. Any wisdom offered is certainly appreciated. Thanks and 73's de N4BWP Brian
Re: [Repeater-Builder] perhaps OT: need connector
Any reason you can't use the connector that's listed in the Mouser catalog above or below the UG-58? It's still an N female, four-hole chassis mount. Mouser p/n 523-82-97-RFX Over 1000 in stock, cost under $5. Bob M. == --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Gary Glaenzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Gary Glaenzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] perhaps OT: need connector To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 10:09 AM Hello all; I'm trying to resurrect a 'Hybrid Ring Combiner'; it takes two 950 MHz broadcast STL transmitters into a common antenna I need one of the chassis-mount N-female connectors, it has one of the 4 'fingers' broke off the center connector UG-58 A / U is stamped on them Mouser says 'not in stock, minimum order 50' Anyone have one of these around ? Thanks ! Gary
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MSF 5000 Part
I think it's a standard Molex or Amp connector. You might be able to buy it from Mouser or Digikey. I can get the Motorola part numbers for the cable end but you will pay less elsewhere (unless it's a custom part). I can get you the wiring for it, but I'd guess the center pin is ground and the two outer pins feed the transformer. That should be easy to figure out. It would be far easier to just snip the connector off and splice an ordinary AC line cord to the wires, especially if you have no plans to ever install the supply into a real MSF station and just want to use it stand-alone. Bob M. == --- On Fri, 9/26/08, Bob Luttrull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Bob Luttrull [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSF 5000 Part To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 26, 2008, 10:56 PM Hi All I am looking for the AC power box with the lead to the power supply for the MSF 5000 case. I have a TPN1185A I would like to get up and working. Can anyone help? Bob kd7ikz
Re: [Repeater-Builder] radio model#D43LRA7PA5BK
HVN9173 is the package's identification. The actual program within goes by the name RADMBL.EXE and it should do that radio. You probably can't buy it from Motorola any more, so you'll have to acquire it off the web. Read more info about MaxTracs, etc. at: http://www.repeater-builder.com in the Motorola section, MaxTrac/Radius/GM300 area. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 9/24/08, ludgerio1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: ludgerio1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] radio model#D43LRA7PA5BK To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 8:59 AM Hi to all I have the radius radio model#D43LRA7PA5BK I have no idea as to what program that need to program them can any one help with the name of the software to the radius, Thank you.!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic -- Tektronix 475 Oscilloscope
Usually you remove the back panel, i.e. the rubber feet and cover on the back end of the unit. There may be additional screws under that, holding the outer cover to the chassis. They'd probably be near the corners. Then the outer skin should slide backwards, leaving you with the guts coming out the front. On the larger scopes, the outer skin had a left and right half. You should be able to find some photos of the inside of the unit. Perhaps one will include the outer cover partially removed. Of course, this is very general and your mileage may vary. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 9/25/08, John Transue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: John Transue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic -- Tektronix 475 Oscilloscope To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 2:56 PM Can anyone tell me how to get this oscilloscope out of the case? When I unplugged it from one outlet and plugged it into another, it apparently became shorted someplace beyond the fuse. The fuse blew, and a replacement blew. I suspect a short in the power supply, and I would like to find and fix it. I removed the back trim. Should the front face and innards slide forward out of the case? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. John Transue AF4PD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project
I thought the community repeaters could decode and encode separately. In other words, there's no requirement that the received PL tone match the transmitted PL tone. If that's the case, then the PL decoder is supposed to remove any received PL tone, which sounds exactly like what yours is doing. You would need a separate encode card to feed the transmitter. The decoded PL output signal would be run through a matrix which chooses the proper PL encode tone. You don't want two PL tones feeding the transmitter (one bleeding through from the receiver, one from the encoder). It works this way on any normal repeater. You always want to remove the received PL tone and generate it fresh for the transmit PL tone. Of course, I could be all wrong about this. Bob M. == --- On Sat, 9/20/08, n9wys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: n9wys [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 20, 2008, 10:33 PM Well, I got this thing all reassembled and tuned up on the new frequency pair… a fellow ham (who used to work for the local Motorola shop) came over with his service monitor and we tuned and tested the system. It is still not passing PL to the transmitter. Some PL bleeds through from the receive, but I know that is not correct – nor is it of sufficient level. (I only get about 90 Hz of deviation with this PL.) We took a CLOSE look at the Master Decoder card itself and it appears to be configured VERY differently than the later version depicted in my manual. For example, the later version card (based on two ICs) has no connection on Pin 24 to the backplane. My card (an earlier version with discreet components) appears to have some sort of signal (audio) on Pin 24. So I need desperately to find either the manual pages pertaining to my older Master Decoder card, or I need a newer version card. If ANYONE has either of these, I’d be much obliged of you would contact me. The issue HAS to be the Master Decoder card – it is not passing any PL to the exciter. The problem is, I have about 8 of the same vintage Master Decoder card, so changing them out is not resolving the issue. For the time being, I am going to put the machine on the air as-is… it works just fine, other than it will have to be CSQ receive for all users. I’ll decide later on whether I will put in a tone panel, or continue to operate it as it is now. Mark – N9WYS / WQIV271
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola MICOR Receiver enclosure questions
One of my 900 MHz PURC5000 manuals has several Micor receivers in it, including 72 MHz. There's also a section that seems to cover the chassis, although I don't know if it's the same one you have. It might be. One board has a squelch pot and an RJ45 jack on it. If that's mounted directly behind the front panel, then it just could be the same board. There's also room inside the chassis for a DPL decoder board and a flat audio board. I suspect these same modules would fit into a SpectraTAC chassis but I haven't checked the pinouts. There's a ribbon cable from the main interface board to the rear panel. The schematic shows the pinout of that connector. Nothing magic but the flat cable does make a mess of the various signals. I would expect you could put ANY wide-band Micor receiver into the unit and it would work just fine. I don't know how the unit interfaces with the parent station, but obviously it can be done. I thought I had a full manual for that exact chassis. I still might; just haven't come across it yet. Bob M. == --- On Sun, 9/21/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola MICOR Receiver enclosure questions To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 1:35 PM I recently picked up a 72-MHz MICOR receiver off of the big auction site (won't mention the name lest someone get all [EMAIL PROTECTED]!).. This MICOR receiver appears to be in a 3-1/2 high MSF-5000 series box, with the spring-loaded releases on the black front panel. It has a squelch control and an RJ-series jack on the front panel, and the rear panel has a BNC antenna jack, along with a 10-pin male plug. The Motorola P/N stamped on the rear is TRC1072AB, which might be just something like the rear panel number and not the complete assembly number. Does anyone know what series station this receiver was used in? I'd like to find the hookup info for it, and find a part number the 10-pin matching connector. I have plenty of actual MICOR receiver info, for receivers of all bands, and would like to use this as a UHF control receiver for a 2-Meter repeater. Repeated request for info emails to the original seller have not been responded to, so Im trying here. One person in our shop felt it might be part of an MSF-5000 sereis paging station, with this 72-MHZ receiver used for control (maybe similar to a 330W MICOR PURC station on 42 MHz with its 72-MHz receiver, which I have sitting in my garage.) Larry
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Power Supply
Too many times, the available on-line Motorola resources are 100% useless. I find the human touch does a lot better. Call 1-800-422-4210, punch your way through to Parts ID, and ask the person for the right manual and/or part numbers. They have resources that aren't available to the order-takers. It's free too. They don't care who you end up buying it from, but they WILL give you the latest manual or part number to order. Bob M. == --- On Sat, 9/20/08, Gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Power Supply To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 20, 2008, 6:18 PM Thanks Eric, I didn't know the part number for the manual and a Resource Center search on MOL turned up nothing as did a parts search. I'll look again. Gary -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 3:06 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Power Supply Gary, The manual for the R1011B bench power supply is 6881069A94, which is still available for purchase from Motorola Parts for about $24. Call 800-422-4210 to order. I saw a few used manuals for sale on eBay, listed as 68P81069A94 for about the same price, not including some significant shipping charges... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 2:32 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Power Supply Folks, I'm in need of the manual for a Motorola R1011B power supply. Anyone have a spare or a good electronic copy? Please reply direct if you have something that may help me. Thanks very much,
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Microphones for GM300s and a Desktrac Question
You can use microphones for MaxTracs in your GM300 radios. I'm pretty sure they will also work in the DeskTrac. EBay always has dozens for sale. It's just a matter of whether you want new or used. Some MaxTracs do drift. I've actually seen them go as much as 300 Hz off frequency while transmitting, and it's not as if something heats up. The microprocessor in the radio TELLS it to change frequency. Most annoying. GM300s suffer from dirty contacts between the logic and RF boards. MaxTracs could suffer from the same thing, but for some reason seem to be less prone to it. The only fix is to remove both boards, clean the pins on the connector, and reinstall everything. Not difficult, but you have to take just about the entire radio apart. This might fix the 1 kHz error but the 300-500 Hz error is well within the spec of the radio so there's not much you can do about it. Shouldn't hurt anything on a 5 kHz channel. Bob M. == --- On Sat, 9/20/08, Charles Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Charles Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Microphones for GM300s and a Desktrac Question To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 20, 2008, 2:52 PM All: Kind of off topic, but thought I'd ask. We have 3 GM300's we got for our emergency communications trailer but we didn't get microphones. I have two desk mics that came with a couple repeaters we got a bit ago but we'd really like Hand mics for this application. I'd trade the desk mics (real clean) for hand mics (real clean) if anyone is interested. We are also a 501(c)(3), so donations welcome. Regarding the repeaters... We found two Desktrac repeaters that we're going to use at a museum ship here. They're all setup and ready to go. The one thing about them is that the TX frequency is all over the place for both of them. While warming up they can be more than 1 KHz off. They do drift in to about the correct frequency after warm-up, but still drift back and forth quite a bit (300-500 Hz). Is that normal for these things? (These have MaxTrac radios in them.) Chuck - N8DNX
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor TPN1110A power supply parts ID
The problem with buying NOS caps is that they might have been new in 1980. They've been sitting on the shelf for all this time, and might not be much better than what you have now (unless yours are shorted). Bob M. == --- On Fri, 9/19/08, kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor TPN1110A power supply parts ID To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 19, 2008, 12:48 AM Thanks for the reply/suggestion. A stud mount of greater current rating may be the way to go. I could just drill out of the existing mounting holes and use the stud mount and a nut/washer combo. However, after googling till my eyes fell asleep, I found a few sources on the web for the original diode - which turns out to be a 1N3492R. So that takes care of the diodes - Now, on to the caps. I mistyped last evening, as they are 17500uf and not 27000uf. Not as much luck, but I did find one supplier listing NOS Moto numbered caps on their web site. I requested pricing. Depending on the price, I will either buy them or retrofit a newer style cap. Eric KE2D --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Captainlance [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: THE DIODES CAN BE REPLACED WITH 1N1191A, THEY ARE REVERSE POLARITY, AND CAN BE SCREWED DIRECTLY TO THE CHASSIS. I HAVE USED THEM MANY TIME WITH GREAT LUCK... AND THEY HANDLE LOTS MORE CURRENT THAN THE FACTORY ONES DO. LANCE N2HBA - Original Message - From: kk2ed To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:10 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor TPN1110A power supply parts ID The diodes CR1 and CR2 are compression-fitted style rectifier diodes that are pressed into a rectangle stock of aluminum, and the aluminum is then secured to the chassis via two screws. The diodes have one solder lug terminal. The service manual only lists the Motorola part #; no specs or industry-standard part # is given. Same on the caps. Only spec given is 27,000 uf @ 20wvdc. I did a quick search of Mouser and DigiKey, and was unable to find any chassis-mount style caps. Anyone find something suitable that can be re-secured to the ps's chassis via new rivets or screws? I know I can just solder in any cap that meets electrical specs, but I would like the caps to be secure and not have the ps become a fire hazard waiting to happen! The power supply was still sitting in my truck last night. When I get a break today I will take it apart further and see if I can find a part # stamped on the diodes and caps that might indicate what the real part # is. While I was at the repeater site yesterday I thought I saw a 1N stamped on the diodes. I would have thought that there would have been someone here on the list that has repaired one of these supplies before, so that is why I asked. Eric KE2D
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor TPN1110A power supply parts ID
Those big aluminum electrolytic caps with screw terminals are getting extinct, and if you DO find one, it'll likely be expensive. You can get something quite smaller in size but the same or larger electrical value. Go with that. Stuff some stiff foam rubber or even some wood slats around the bottom so it will fit into the original clamp. That's what a lot of the hi-fi repair guys are doing now. A lot cheaper for something that has much better specs. The diodes are probably very similar to what an automobile alternator uses. Of course, finding the exact replacements could still be difficult. They're probably (minimally) 50V, 50A, but I'd look for something a bit bigger. The supply is good for 25A at 14V nominal. According to the schematic, the anodes (the ends with the arrows) are connected to the case and ground. Push-in diodes came both ways, mainly because many alternators use three of each inside, and they can only ground the case of three of them. You could also replace the diodes and bracket with a piece of aluminum heatsink material and use stud-mount diodes. Again, observe polarity otherwise you'll have to insulate the cases or the heatsink (probably not a good idea to have that sitting at +15V). Bob M. == --- On Thu, 9/18/08, kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor TPN1110A power supply parts ID To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 10:10 AM The diodes CR1 and CR2 are compression-fitted style rectifier diodes that are pressed into a rectangle stock of aluminum, and the aluminum is then secured to the chassis via two screws. The diodes have one solder lug terminal. The service manual only lists the Motorola part #; no specs or industry-standard part # is given. Same on the caps. Only spec given is 27,000 uf @ 20wvdc. I did a quick search of Mouser and DigiKey, and was unable to find any chassis-mount style caps. Anyone find something suitable that can be re-secured to the ps's chassis via new rivets or screws? I know I can just solder in any cap that meets electrical specs, but I would like the caps to be secure and not have the ps become a fire hazard waiting to happen! The power supply was still sitting in my truck last night. When I get a break today I will take it apart further and see if I can find a part # stamped on the diodes and caps that might indicate what the real part # is. While I was at the repeater site yesterday I thought I saw a 1N stamped on the diodes. I would have thought that there would have been someone here on the list that has repaired one of these supplies before, so that is why I asked. Eric KE2D
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor TPN1110A power supply parts ID
Other diode alternatives: consider replacing the two diodes with a bridge rectifier. You can get a 50A 1000V unit (I've used these in Astron RS35 supplies) on eBay for about $5 - KBPC5010. One single #8 machine screw holds it to the chassis, and 1/4 inch quick-disconnect terminals let you connect it to just about anything. There are also 60A and 70A versions on eBay. You'll need to add your own ground wire to the negative terminal, but it's probably easier to deal with in the long run. Stud diodes come in both anode-to-case and cathode-to-case, but they're each about the same price as the bridge rectifier, and you need two, plus some means of mounting them (bracket etc). I guess you have to decide if it's worth replacing just the press-fit diodes to maintain the original Motorola configuration, or finding a current component that will do the job and be readily available if it ever fails again. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 9/18/08, Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor TPN1110A power supply parts ID To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 1:02 PM Those big aluminum electrolytic caps with screw terminals are getting extinct, and if you DO find one, it'll likely be expensive. You can get something quite smaller in size but the same or larger electrical value. Go with that. Stuff some stiff foam rubber or even some wood slats around the bottom so it will fit into the original clamp. That's what a lot of the hi-fi repair guys are doing now. A lot cheaper for something that has much better specs. The diodes are probably very similar to what an automobile alternator uses. Of course, finding the exact replacements could still be difficult. They're probably (minimally) 50V, 50A, but I'd look for something a bit bigger. The supply is good for 25A at 14V nominal. According to the schematic, the anodes (the ends with the arrows) are connected to the case and ground. Push-in diodes came both ways, mainly because many alternators use three of each inside, and they can only ground the case of three of them. You could also replace the diodes and bracket with a piece of aluminum heatsink material and use stud-mount diodes. Again, observe polarity otherwise you'll have to insulate the cases or the heatsink (probably not a good idea to have that sitting at +15V). Bob M. == --- On Thu, 9/18/08, kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor TPN1110A power supply parts ID To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 10:10 AM The diodes CR1 and CR2 are compression-fitted style rectifier diodes that are pressed into a rectangle stock of aluminum, and the aluminum is then secured to the chassis via two screws. The diodes have one solder lug terminal. The service manual only lists the Motorola part #; no specs or industry-standard part # is given. Same on the caps. Only spec given is 27,000 uf @ 20wvdc. I did a quick search of Mouser and DigiKey, and was unable to find any chassis-mount style caps. Anyone find something suitable that can be re-secured to the ps's chassis via new rivets or screws? I know I can just solder in any cap that meets electrical specs, but I would like the caps to be secure and not have the ps become a fire hazard waiting to happen! The power supply was still sitting in my truck last night. When I get a break today I will take it apart further and see if I can find a part # stamped on the diodes and caps that might indicate what the real part # is. While I was at the repeater site yesterday I thought I saw a 1N stamped on the diodes. I would have thought that there would have been someone here on the list that has repaired one of these supplies before, so that is why I asked. Eric KE2D
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor TPN1110A power supply parts ID
I'd suspect one of the two diodes is open on the other supply. Disconnect them both and test them with an ohm-meter. Of course, bad caps can also cause this kind of problem too. The 9.6V regulator gets its input power from the raw 14VDC supply, so you can re-use that part, even if you just mount it on a blank panel. The Micor exciter power control (IPA) operates from the 9.6V supply, so I'd think it needs to provide several amps. Astron only uses the positive half of the diode bridges in their supplies, so you can certainly use the negative half in the Micor supply. It may be more expensive or harder to find a two-diode array with that much current capacity. I agree; OEM parts are certainly desirable, especially when you can see tham all the time (like front panel escutcheons and knobs), but you have to decide what your priorities and goals are. Articles are always good. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 9/18/08, kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor TPN1110A power supply parts ID To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 2:33 PM Thanks for the reply, Bob. It sounds like the 50a bridge rectifier may be my best bet. Same with the newer style caps. I'm admittedly somewhat of a perfectionist and neat freak, and my motto has always been use oem parts for proper repair, but this appears to be one of those cases of do you want it fixed or not?, and I guess an ugly working TPN1110A is better than a junk TPN1110A! I will hit eBay and pick up a few of the bridge rectifiers. A screw, nut, and some thermal grease and that part should be good to go. The caps, well some heat shrink and wire ties should fit the bill. I have a second TPN1110A that works but has horrible voltage sag and ac hum under load. So I guess I will be rebuilding two of them at once. Maybe a few pictures and RB article are in order when I'm done. Eric KE2D --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Other diode alternatives: consider replacing the two diodes with a bridge rectifier. You can get a 50A 1000V unit (I've used these in Astron RS35 supplies) on eBay for about $5 - KBPC5010. One single #8 machine screw holds it to the chassis, and 1/4 inch quick-disconnect terminals let you connect it to just about anything. There are also 60A and 70A versions on eBay. You'll need to add your own ground wire to the negative terminal, but it's probably easier to deal with in the long run. Stud diodes come in both anode-to-case and cathode-to-case, but they're each about the same price as the bridge rectifier, and you need two, plus some means of mounting them (bracket etc). I guess you have to decide if it's worth replacing just the press- fit diodes to maintain the original Motorola configuration, or finding a current component that will do the job and be readily available if it ever fails again. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 9/18/08, Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor TPN1110A power supply parts ID To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 1:02 PM Those big aluminum electrolytic caps with screw terminals are getting extinct, and if you DO find one, it'll likely be expensive. You can get something quite smaller in size but the same or larger electrical value. Go with that. Stuff some stiff foam rubber or even some wood slats around the bottom so it will fit into the original clamp. That's what a lot of the hi-fi repair guys are doing now. A lot cheaper for something that has much better specs. The diodes are probably very similar to what an automobile alternator uses. Of course, finding the exact replacements could still be difficult. They're probably (minimally) 50V, 50A, but I'd look for something a bit bigger. The supply is good for 25A at 14V nominal. According to the schematic, the anodes (the ends with the arrows) are connected to the case and ground. Push-in diodes came both ways, mainly because many alternators use three of each inside, and they can only ground the case of three of them. You could also replace the diodes and bracket with a piece of aluminum heatsink material and use stud-mount diodes. Again, observe polarity otherwise you'll have to insulate the cases or the heatsink (probably not a good idea to have that sitting at +15V). Bob M. == --- On Thu, 9/18/08, kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor TPN1110A power supply parts ID To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 10:10 AM The diodes CR1 and CR2 are compression-fitted style rectifier
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio War Stories (Story #741)
The people in charge of the repeater 25 kHz away (and on the opposite split) DID contact the guy in charge of the over-deviating repeater. He turned down some of the audio sources, again with no test equipment, but the lack of pre-emphasis/limiting/low-pass-filtering in the transmitter still exists, and signals with a high noise level wreak havoc. Definitely time to bump it up a notch by going to the coordinating body to get some pressure put on this guy. He was into the hard rock stuff in the 80s and his hearing has been poor since then. Bob M. == --- On Tue, 9/16/08, skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio War Stories (Story #741) To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 12:43 PM Case in point... . Depending on how realistic the repeater owner/op is... you could offer to help. In the case of hard-nose Alpha Hotel types... you might then set out on a paper-work trip that ends up involving the local coordination group leading through to the FCC. Takes time but it does work in some cases A deviation scope shows peaks out to 7 kHz, but a spectrum analyzer shows a much wider bandwidth, almost all of which is high-frequency noise from marginally weak signals that gets amplified way out of proportion to the actual voice audio. You are only concerned with the emissions outside the normal band-width for the standard mode (FM). You do know that's malicious interference, Not until you contact the owner, ask the proper questions and present the situation for his or her response. and he can be shut down? It's been done here! Sure, if you do the proper homework first. The owner might be ignorant and actually appreciate and welcome a second source of technical assistance. For Step-1, be nice and contact the repeater owner with a hello and a smile on your face. cheers, s.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Volt-Amp (Re: APC UPS Charging Power)
Thank you Eric. This was the explanation I was looking for. The UPS is saving me money when drawing 181 Volt-Amps, yet the electric meter is only recording and charging me for 31 Watts. I wonder if APC did this on purpose. I don't know how much current is actually being fed to the batteries; they've been in there for a couple of months and should be fully charged by now, so it should just be trickling them (eight 12V 7A SLA cells in series/parallel for 48V). Bob M. == --- On Tue, 9/16/08, Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Volt-Amp(Re: APC UPS Charging Power) To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 9:21 PM Albert, You are forgiven, because you pose an important question! The spinning aluminum disk in the kilowatthour meter found on most residential service-entrance panels measures true power in kilowatts versus time, which equals energy. Thus, your electric utility charges you for the true power you use, not for volts times amperes- known as reactive power. Although the utility must provide the capability to supply all of the amperes you need, some of those amperes are given back to the utility due to a lower than unity power factor. That is why many utility companies charge a kVAR Penalty to certain industrial power users whose volt-ampere demands far exceed their watt demands, meaning that the power factor is low. Industrial power users strive to keep their power factors at 0.95 or above, to avoid some really painful penalties! The power factor, or PF, is simply watts divided by volts time amperes. The issue of power factor is why large Diesel generator sets have ratings such as 1000 kW/1250 kVAR. In simple terms, any AC generator requires torque (engine horsepower) to meet true power demands, and excitation (field flux intensity) to meet reactive power demands. When the generator load is reactive, that is, it has a power factor less than unity, the generator must not only have the horsepower to supply the energy in watts, but it must have excess capacity to handle the additional current required by motors and other low-power-factor loads. In a nutshell, that is why a 1000 watt generator may be unable to keep running a refrigerator that uses only 900 watts; the fridge may require 1200 VA to operate because it has a low power factor, and the small generator has no ability to handle such loads. Because of its relatively small amount of spinning mass, such a small generator probably could not even handle the refrigerator's starting current- which is about 5 to 6 times its running current. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Albert Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 2:13 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Volt-Amp (Re: APC UPS Charging Power) Hopefully, you will forgive me for hijacking the post, but this brings up a question I have had for a long time. What on earth is a volt-amp? My logic would state that is is the same as a watt, which is volts x amps, as you probably well know. So what on earth is it? Confused. Albert
[Repeater-Builder] APC UPS Charging Power
I have an APC SU2200 (SmartUPS, 2200VA) 3U tall, that I put new batteries in a few months ago. So far it's just sitting, plugged in, turned off, with no load. I got curious as to how much power it was sucking out of the wall outlet, so I plugged the UPS into my Kill-A-Watt device and plugged that into the wall. Here are the numbers I observed: 122.2 Volts 1.48 Amps 31 Watts 181 Volt-Amps 0.17 Power Factor The values were identical with the unit turned on, also with no load. The only thing running inside the UPS is the battery charger; the inverter is completely bypassed and is not running. I then ran the UPS into a test cycle, again with no load, but this time the inverter turned on and powered the load, thus disconnecting itself from the commercial AC power. Surprisingly, there was still a little bit of power being used, probably by the transformer and line sampling circuit. Here are the readings I got during the self-test: 122.4 Volts 0.09 Amps 0 Watts 11 Volt-Amps 0.06 Power Factor As far as I know, the utility's kilowatt-hour meter on the side of my house, which is a rotating aluminum-disc style, measures WATTS, not Volt-Amps. Somehow APC has managed to get their charging circuit to draw a lot of current while keeping the power factor and Wattage power extremely low. I suspect it's highly capacitive. So here's where you all get to jump in. Is this UPS costing me a lot just to keep the batteries charged (180 VA) or am I only being charged for the wattage it draws? Bob M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Comspec TS32P encoder control (CAT Audio)
This is getting slightly off the original topic... I suppose some mild amount of equalization can help, but it can also be implemented completely incorrectly and cause a lot more harm than good. Case in point (Dave M, start laughing) is a local UHF repeater. The trustee has a slight hearing problem (loss of high-freq) and almost all of the users have Yahoo handhelds (VX2s, etc). Naturally there's an EchoLink port and multiple receivers, and links to just about everything in the area. The main repeater has had its pre-emphasis, audio filtering, and limiting defeated and a stereo EQ feeds it. Basically it is a straight line from -20dB at the low end (20Hz) to +20dB at the high end (20kHz) using both channels in series, way more than the standard 6dB/octave pre-emphasis, and no low-pass cutoff above 3 kHz. No test equipment was used to set up levels; it was all done by ear in an attempt to get FM broadcast-quality audio out of a 1 inch speaker. So with no limiting or low-pass filtering, the repeater puts out strong sidebands up to 20 kHz away, pretty much ruining any use of another repeater that's the reverse split, 25 kHz adjacent, and 13 miles away. A deviation scope shows peaks out to 7 kHz, but a spectrum analyzer shows a much wider bandwidth, almost all of which is high-frequency noise from marginally weak signals that gets amplified way out of proportion to the actual voice audio. So if you must use an EQ, make sure the transmitter still has the final word on pre-emphasis, low-pass filtering, and limiting. Bob M. == --- On Fri, 9/12/08, ldgelectronics [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: ldgelectronics [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Comspec TS32P encoder control (CAT Audio) To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 12, 2008, 1:22 AM Mike, I have the same general question about repeater audio. What does it really supposed to sound like? In my systems, I try to make it so the repeater output sounds like the repeater input. In other words, it's close what you would hear if you were simplex. For me, it doesn't sound like CAT or Arcom. I'm sure that others have their favorite way to make their repeater sound (a little compression may also sound good). The repeaters that I have are mixed with Arcom and CAT controllers. In general, I like the sound of the (non-modified) Arcom better, but that is just me and it's not by a great amount. We have some users that like the CAT sound and some that like the Arcom. If you have a CAT controller that sounds bad, then there may be an impedance mis-match or you have the de-emphasis jumper in the wrong place. A couple of the CAT systems have a rack mounted 15 band stereo EQ in line with the receiver. The controller enclosure got RCA jacks mounted on the back (or side) and there is a 3 foot RCA cable between the controller and EQ. In this case, it worked out very well as the systems have a link receiver on it that also needed some audio shaping. The EQ can then be used to shape the audio any way you like. For this system, I went right in between the normal CAT sound (less highs) and the normal Arcom sound (a little brighter) to get what I perceived to be a simplex sound. Your mileage (or sound) may vary. Dwayne Kincaid WD8OYG Hmmm . interesting comment Bob. What IS a repeater supposed to sound like? Having a CAT controller I can tell you I HATE the audio. ..stinks. A cheaper ARCOM on the same repeater sounds far better. This sounds to me like personal preference. But as this is THE BUILDERS forum, has anyone got some ideas on how to improve the CAT audio other than to replace it? - Mike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] wanted: N-female flange mount crimp connectors
Be careful. The crimp ferrule for double-shielded coax (RG142/400) is thinner than what it would be for single-shielded coax (RG58) to allow more braid to fit under it, yet still use the same crimping tool. Many vendors don't know the difference, and you'll have a heck of a time pushing/forcing the ferrule down over two layers of braid. The proper connectors are a snug fit but can be pushed down with strong fingers. Same thing goes for full-size connectors. RG213 (single-shield) vs RG214 (double-shield) ferrules are quite different. The inside diameter is over 20 thousandths smaller on the 213 connectors and it will not fit over two layers. Been there, done that. Any problem with buying RF Connectors from places like hdcom? Bob M. == --- On Thu, 9/11/08, kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] wanted: N-female flange mount crimp connectors To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:39 PM I'm working on a few projects and need a number of N female flange mount style connectors, crimp style for RG58/142/400u cable. Similar to those found on the side of MSF5000 cabinets. Amphenol part # 082- 5372. Anyone have any? Have any of you folks recently needed to refresh your shop stock of connectors? I mean quality connectors like Amphenol? Make sure you are sitting down! I recently needed to order some N Male connectors for RG214, and what I used to pay $4-5 for is now $10+, even wholesale! DAMN!!! I should have invested in connectors rather than the market! In Dayton this year I hit every used vendor and bought all the new/unused UG21 N males I could find, and wish I could have found more. Seems like I never have enough of them. Anyway, I'm also looking for Amphenol UG21 (aka 82-202) N males as well. Anyone have surplus stock to sell? Eric KE2D 609-713-3742
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Comspec TS32P encoder control
Add a simple NPN transistor (and two resistor) inverter between the CAT and the TS32. Don't fight it, just put on your Borg hat and adapt. Of course you know that the CAT only enables its transmit PL when there's a valid COR signal on the input. You won't get PL activated on CW ID, courtesy beep, or anything else. For all that, you might as well just wire your receiver COR to the TS32 and bypass the CAT controller. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 9/11/08, kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Comspec TS32P encoder control To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:58 PM Has anyone controlled the encode function of a TS32P via a CAT controller's encode logic pin? I've wired several SCOM 7330s and Arcom RC210s to factory encoders in MS2000s, Micors, and even outboard TS32 encoders. The Scom and Arcom controllers can be configured to set their encode logic for either active high or active low (active high needed for the aforementioned units); however my latest project utilizes a CAT200 controller, which only supports active low. In the past I've used the logic pin to ground the input of the op-amp stage on the TS32's encoder, effectively shutting off the encoder. However, since the CAT controller is active low, that won't work, as the logic needs to be active high for the op-amp's input to pass. I don't prefer to use a relay or audio gate switch on the TS32's output because the impedance load of the encoder affects the overall exciter deviation. If anyone has played with Micors or MSRs, you know that adding or removing the encoder output from the exciter changes the load on the modulator stage, resulting in varying repeat audio deviation levels depending on the state of the encoder connection (even with zero tone level, ex: reed pulled). Hence the reason the factory boards control the encoder BEFORE the final tone output. The final impedance load of the encoder is still present at all times, with or without encode tone present. I also can't just switch the ground of the TS32 board, as it is being used as a full time decoder as well. Before I add some inverting logic between the CAT controller and the TS32, does anyone else have any ideas? Eric KE2D
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Comspec TS32P encoder control
Yup, that's all I'd do for an inverter. I have two repeaters using CAT200Bs and have had no problem with the audio. I never measured it to see how flat it was. It's not broadcast quality; it's not supposed to be. hdcom sells coax connectors, cables, etc. They're located on Lawn Guy Land. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 9/11/08, kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Comspec TS32P encoder control To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 6:23 PM Thanks, Bob. The NPN was my plan if no one had any better suggestion. All I'll need to do is tie the CAT's logic pin to a 10K pullup and 2n, then tie the collector to the TS32P's op amp input, and the emitter to ground. At least the CAT will enable the encoder based on rx activity of either RX1 or RX2 9 (when linked), and only if the rx's are actually active. For example, if the receive mode is COSPL rather than COS only, and the encoder was tied directly to COS, then the encoder would thump on and off any time the rx squelch popped from noise while the tx is active, which could be an issue for some instances like a hub repeater. Better to let the controller handle it WHEN possible. I also don't care for the audio quality thru the CAT controllers. Somewhat restricted curve as compared to the others. I would never use a CAT on my own repeaters, but this is for someone else, so I'm using what they had on hand. This is a prime case of you get what you pay for, and where the extra money spent for an SCOM or Link is money well spent. Eric KE2D --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Add a simple NPN transistor (and two resistor) inverter between the CAT and the TS32. Don't fight it, just put on your Borg hat and adapt. Of course you know that the CAT only enables its transmit PL when there's a valid COR signal on the input. You won't get PL activated on CW ID, courtesy beep, or anything else. For all that, you might as well just wire your receiver COR to the TS32 and bypass the CAT controller. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 9/11/08, kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Comspec TS32P encoder control To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:58 PM Has anyone controlled the encode function of a TS32P via a CAT controller's encode logic pin? I've wired several SCOM 7330s and Arcom RC210s to factory encoders in MS2000s, Micors, and even outboard TS32 encoders. The Scom and Arcom controllers can be configured to set their encode logic for either active high or active low (active high needed for the aforementioned units); however my latest project utilizes a CAT200 controller, which only supports active low. In the past I've used the logic pin to ground the input of the op-amp stage on the TS32's encoder, effectively shutting off the encoder. However, since the CAT controller is active low, that won't work, as the logic needs to be active high for the op-amp's input to pass. I don't prefer to use a relay or audio gate switch on the TS32's output because the impedance load of the encoder affects the overall exciter deviation. If anyone has played with Micors or MSRs, you know that adding or removing the encoder output from the exciter changes the load on the modulator stage, resulting in varying repeat audio deviation levels depending on the state of the encoder connection (even with zero tone level, ex: reed pulled). Hence the reason the factory boards control the encoder BEFORE the final tone output. The final impedance load of the encoder is still present at all times, with or without encode tone present. I also can't just switch the ground of the TS32 board, as it is being used as a full time decoder as well. Before I add some inverting logic between the CAT controller and the TS32, does anyone else have any ideas? Eric KE2D
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Specfic Cable Lengths
It depends on the connector. N-male crimp connectors for RG214 and RG142/400 all add exactly 0.5 inches to the length of the center conductor, so if you need a cable that has to be exactly 12 inches from end-to-end using N-males (where the center pin does NOT extend outside the barrel of the connector), you cut the coax to exactly 11 inches and add a connector at each end. Just don't cut the center conductor any shorter and take care trimming and fitting the connector to it. Other connectors vary, especially PL259s, where the center pin extends out through the barrel of the connector. I usually stuff a piece of stiff wire into the connector, note where it sits, withdraw it, and measure how much gets inserted into the connector. It has been my experience that no matter how carefully you measure and make a cable, it will be the wrong length. I think this is one of Murphy's Laws. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 9/8/08, Jeff Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Jeff Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Specfic Cable Lengths To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 7:35 PM Has anyone seen information on how to account for connector length when wanting to build a cable of a specific length (i.e. half wavelength)?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help needed on PD-526 UHF duplexer
Physician, heal thyself! Did YOU look on www.repeater-builder.com? I know there's a cut chart (PDF file) that lists several models, including the 526 using RG214 coax. Probably in the Antenna section. Do you know how good it feels to tell the great one to look in his own back yard for a change?!?!?! Sorry, I couldn't resist! Bob M. == --- On Tue, 9/2/08, Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Help needed on PD-526 UHF duplexer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 4:26 PM I picked up a PD-526 UHF duplexer as part of a rebuild of a local community college repeater (W6BAB). See these two photos : http://www.repeater-builder.com/wa6ilq/pd526-duplexer/duplexer.jpg http://www.repeater-builder.com/wa6ilq/pd526-duplexer/rg-8.jpg As visible in the photos this duplexer is missing the center section of the harness, plus it's so old that it has RG-8 jumpers between the cavities,and the outer jacket of that RG-8 is cracking. I'd like to replace the entire harness with modern cable but need some length measurements of the harness. Does anybody have one that they can measure? Any suggestions as to cable, or a vendor ? My current plan is to use RG-393 and new Kings or Amphenol N Connectors. (Why 393? Well, it's going on a 60 watt repeater right now, and RG142 would be fine, but down the road the duplexer will probably end up on the output of a 250 w Micor, and if you are going to make up a harness that will be used for the next 30 years why impose limits on yourself ? Besides RG142 is LOSSY) Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Help needed on PD-526 UHF duplexer
Actually he put everything he owned into a storage facility and now everything is at the bottom of the pile. Maybe he'll just have to use good old RG214 and crimp-on N connectors like Celwave did on the stock cable sets they sold for $250 (I bought one). Bob M. == --- On Tue, 9/2/08, sgreact47 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: sgreact47 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Help needed on PD-526 UHF duplexer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 8:16 PM Hey Bob, don't you remember, Mike moved his back yard, and can't find anything. Anyway, he wants to use RG-393 and new Kings or Amphenol N connectors. They would have a different velocity factor... Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Physician, heal thyself! Did YOU look on www.repeater-builder.com? I know there's a cut chart (PDF file) that lists several models, including the 526 using RG214 coax. Probably in the Antenna section. Do you know how good it feels to tell the great one to look in his own back yard for a change?!?!?! Sorry, I couldn't resist! Bob M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 Tone Issue, PL 131.8 opens cor, non 131.8 keys repeater but no audio
The CAT controllers have separate inputs for COR and CTCSS. Perhaps they're wired to different spots in the MSF SCB and the CAT is set up for OR logic rather than AND logic, so the CAT is responding to the carrier with the wrong PL. It's either a DIP-switch configuration or one of the bits in a zone. It could be a code plug issue, where the repeater activate and repeater hold-in aren't the same. But if you've got it configured as a base station and aren't using the internal controller, most of this stuff has no effect. Bob M. == --- On Sun, 8/31/08, n9lv [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: n9lv [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 Tone Issue, PL 131.8 opens cor, non 131.8 keys repeater but no audio To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 31, 2008, 11:44 AM I have the analog MSF5000 repeater that has the Cat300DX repeater controller installed. Not sure if this has been this way all along, but I noticed there is another repeater somewhere close that has a different PL. When they are using there repeater, it will cerchunk my 442.000 repeater. My PL is 131.8, and that will open the squelch and allow audio out the repeater. Any other PL will not open the repeater, but will consistanly cerchunk the repeater and causes the courtesy tone to trip as well as the rest and wait id timers. Any ideas. Mathew
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Rackmount clips/screws
I found that it's very easy to use one of the existing M6x1 T30 self-tapping screws to tap any other virgin holes in the rack, then an ordinary M6x1 Phillips-head machine screw can be used in its place. I bought a box of 100 of them from a local hardware company for about $5 and replaced all the missing screws. OK, they're not black, they're not original, and they're not T30, but it's easier to put the new screws into the old holes in the most used locations and just use the Phillips driver from then on. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Milt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Milt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Rackmount clips/screws To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 6:38 AM Now Motorola cabinets on the other hand mostly have 1/4 holes for the tinnerman nuts he was talking about... The current Motorola floor mount cabinets how have rack rails that are predrilled for metric screws. The size is M6x1. The screws are a T30 Torx head and are self threading. Based on a quick check of Lowes' pricing for metric hardware it's cheaper to purchase the self threading screw from Motorola. Milt N3LTQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Rackmount clips/screws
I bought a box of 100 because I was dealing with six stations that had multiple missing screws. I probably used 30-40 of them, and they were all going into holes that previously had screws in them, so no tapping was required. Eventually we moved some of the T30 screws around to the blank panels and less-used assemblies. Home Despot is horribly stocked with Metric hardware. We used to have a Sears Hardware store in town, but H-D conveniently did away with that venture. At least they had a lot of odd-ball stuff and managed to keep it in stock. I still have plenty of the screws I bought. They're probably longer than 10mm but that's rarely a problem. I also managed to buy an M6x1 tap, so if I don't have a spare self-tapping screw, I can just run the tap in and get the job done that way. It's big and probably will never break. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Milt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Milt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Rackmount clips/screws To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 11:44 AM Not a bad idea Bob. The Lowes store nearby has M6x1x10 hex heads at 0.23 each. Other suppliers probably have better pricing. Motorola's pricing looks like 0.15 each. Milt - Original Message - From: Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Rackmount clips/screws I found that it's very easy to use one of the existing M6x1 T30 self-tapping screws to tap any other virgin holes in the rack, then an ordinary M6x1 Phillips-head machine screw can be used in its place. I bought a box of 100 of them from a local hardware company for about $5 and replaced all the missing screws. OK, they're not black, they're not original, and they're not T30, but it's easier to put the new screws into the old holes in the most used locations and just use the Phillips driver from then on. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Milt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Milt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Rackmount clips/screws To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 6:38 AM Now Motorola cabinets on the other hand mostly have 1/4 holes for the tinnerman nuts he was talking about... The current Motorola floor mount cabinets how have rack rails that are predrilled for metric screws. The size is M6x1. The screws are a T30 Torx head and are self threading. Based on a quick check of Lowes' pricing for metric hardware it's cheaper to purchase the self threading screw from Motorola. Milt N3LTQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Genesis series bank charger question
Yes, the IR thermometer will show a lower temp on the outside of the case than the cells are actually experiencing. However, it won't be too far off, and since the charger stops the rapid charge cycle at about 104 degrees Fahrenheit, a few more degrees one way or the other won't really make much of a difference. The temperature rise is also fairly slow, as in several minutes per degree even when the battery finally reaches full charge, so the thermal lag is minimal, even though the plastic doesn't transfer the internal cell temp very well. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 8/11/08, Albert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Albert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Genesis series bank charger question To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 11, 2008, 10:04 AM Thank you all for the input. As always, I can trust that this group has a wealth of distributed knowledge. Allow me to respond to a few of your suggestinos and comments. I did look through my P200 Radius manual (don't have it handy or I would write down # of manual) and found a small section in the back describing the theory of opperation regarding the bank charger. There was also a schematic and expoded diagram. It was very enlightening. The six slot charger is much more complicated than I thought. I am glad I took digital circuits or else I would have been lost. Thank you Mike for your comments on Bob's article. I had a feeling that was the case. As I have researched, experiemented, and learned a little more I came to the same realization. Either you could modify the charger or modify the resistor and thermistor in the battery. I guess manufactures have finally picked up on that and begun to install different components in the packs. So, this raises another question. Monitoring battery temperature while charging. I guess the IR thermometer would be ok but I immagine the batteries inside the shell would be a bit hotter than the outside of the case. What would be a better way of monitoring battery temperature in order to determine if the battery was charging properly or not? I guess I will leave the charger alone for now since the circuitry seems different enough from the desktop fast charger that the same modifications can't be made. Also, as stated above, the modifications may not be necessary at all. Thanks as always. Albert KI4ORI --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 04:14 PM 08/10/08, you wrote: Hey guys, I am back with yet another Motorola Genesis series question. I have acquired a 6 slot bank charger and would like to convert it over to handle NiMH batteries. I have done both my stand alone fast chargers and my MVA, but not the bank charger, but I immagine it shares at least some similarities with the others. I was wondering if anyone would mind offering guidance? Thanks. Note that the mod listed in Bob's article was required because of the different thermal response of the NIMH cell chemistry, and the fact that the manufacturer of the particular batteries Bob received used the thermistor intended for NICDs. Different manufacturers may use different thermistors. In some cases no mod may be needed. At one time the local Radio Shack had their hand-held remote IR Thermal readout device for $20. I wish I had purchased one then, but by the time I heard about it they were out of stock. See http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2460852 One of these would making the measurments mentioned in Bob's article very easy. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Zetron 38a Schematics
That's like totally great news, dude! One very important piece of information missing, however. Bob M. == --- On Tue, 7/29/08, n3gh_1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: n3gh_1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Zetron 38a Schematics To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 8:45 PM Greetings All! I have uploaded PDF files of schematics for the Zetron 38A controller. Have fun! 73, N3GH George
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: How to figure cable length for duplexer?
Telewave is VERY responsive to e-mails and even phone calls. I've had technical questions about their duplexers on several occasions and have sent e-mail to their only public e-mail address. Usually I get a reply later the same day or first thing in the morning from a man named Ray Collins. Turns out he's the president of Telewave and very nice to converse with. Highly recommended. I will offer this, however. Celwave (and possibly other manufacturers) seem to have cut lists which specify the lengths of coax you need between cavities and from the last cavity to the TEE connector. Telewave doesn't seem to have them; I've asked in the past and I'm always told they make each cable set on the shop floor when the unit is attached to expensive analysis equipment, starting with some known (but un-publicized) length, just to get it close, then they trim to fit until the unit performs as they want it to. In actuality, they may have a bunch of cables all made in various lengths by 1/4 inch increments, then select the right ones to get the desired performance. You probably wanted a TPRD1454 unit, if they make one, as that would have the right cable lengths and configuration for the 2 meter band. Bob M. == --- On Fri, 7/25/08, garyp609 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: garyp609 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: How to figure cable length for duplexer? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 7:09 PM Jim, Thanks for the response. The duplexer is a Telewave TPRD1554. They are brand new and bought from Tessco tuned. The cable on the RX side is marked 11 in black marker on the connector and the TX side is marked 11 1/2 . Both cables terminate at the T. I just want to feel assured that they are the right length as I feel my performance should be much better and want to rule out the duplexer. Gary K2ACY --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Jim Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What kind of duplexer is it? I have several older Sinclair 2 meter duplexers that were up in the 170 mHz range that I moved down to the ham band, and I had to replace each 10.5 inch cable that went from the can to the Tee with a cable 12.5 inches long. Turns out for those older models that piece of cable was part of the tuned circuit for adjusting the nulls. All duplexers are not made the same, so I think you need to be more specific. Interesting on the frequency you are using. We are just putting one on the same frequency here in central New Mexico - HI. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Fri, 7/25/08, garyp609 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: garyp609 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] How to figure cable length for duplexer? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 5:46 PM Output frequency is 145.450 input is 144.850. How do I figure out what length the cables should be between the rx side and tx side that connect to the T-Connector? Thanks and 73's ! Gary K2ACY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: How to figure cable length for duplexer?
As someone else mentioned, 77dB is nowhere near enough isolation, especially at 600 kHz spacing. You need at least 90dB with double-shielded coax between the duplexer and radios. As with so many other things in life, more is better. This also translates to more bucks. You may need a six-cavity duplexer, depending on the design, to get that kind of isolation, especially with that spacing. One more cavity on each side could give you enough isolation, but with a bit more insertion loss. I think you should have done some reading, homework, and question-asking before buying that duplexer. Bob M. == --- On Fri, 7/25/08, garyp609 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: garyp609 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: How to figure cable length for duplexer? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 8:12 PM Thanks for the info. I will call call Telewave for an education. The TPRD1454 shows 77db of isolation and a minimum of a 1 meg split. I am running .600 split here. 73's Gary K2ACY --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Telewave is VERY responsive to e-mails and even phone calls. I've had technical questions about their duplexers on several occasions and have sent e-mail to their only public e-mail address. Usually I get a reply later the same day or first thing in the morning from a man named Ray Collins. Turns out he's the president of Telewave and very nice to converse with. Highly recommended. I will offer this, however. Celwave (and possibly other manufacturers) seem to have cut lists which specify the lengths of coax you need between cavities and from the last cavity to the TEE connector. Telewave doesn't seem to have them; I've asked in the past and I'm always told they make each cable set on the shop floor when the unit is attached to expensive analysis equipment, starting with some known (but un-publicized) length, just to get it close, then they trim to fit until the unit performs as they want it to. In actuality, they may have a bunch of cables all made in various lengths by 1/4 inch increments, then select the right ones to get the desired performance. You probably wanted a TPRD1454 unit, if they make one, as that would have the right cable lengths and configuration for the 2 meter band. Bob M. == --- On Fri, 7/25/08, garyp609 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: garyp609 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: How to figure cable length for duplexer? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 7:09 PM Jim, Thanks for the response. The duplexer is a Telewave TPRD1554. They are brand new and bought from Tessco tuned. The cable on the RX side is marked 11 in black marker on the connector and the TX side is marked 11 1/2 . Both cables terminate at the T. I just want to feel assured that they are the right length as I feel my performance should be much better and want to rule out the duplexer. Gary K2ACY --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Jim Brown w5zit@ wrote: What kind of duplexer is it? I have several older Sinclair 2 meter duplexers that were up in the 170 mHz range that I moved down to the ham band, and I had to replace each 10.5 inch cable that went from the can to the Tee with a cable 12.5 inches long. Turns out for those older models that piece of cable was part of the tuned circuit for adjusting the nulls. All duplexers are not made the same, so I think you need to be more specific. Interesting on the frequency you are using. We are just putting one on the same frequency here in central New Mexico - HI. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Fri, 7/25/08, garyp609 gary.paul@ wrote: From: garyp609 gary.paul@ Subject: [Repeater-Builder] How to figure cable length for duplexer? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 5:46 PM Output frequency is 145.450 input is 144.850. How do I figure out what length the cables should be between the rx side and tx side that connect to the T-Connector? Thanks and 73's ! Gary K2ACY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] How to remove Scotch Kote
It seems there are a lot of orange cleaning compounds. A couple of years ago I had my roof replaced. Even though they set up tarps to catch the old shingles, the siding still suffered a lot of scuff marks as stuff slid off the roof. When the job was done, the roofers went around the house spraying this citrus-smelling stuff on the vinyl siding, waited about 10 seconds, then wiped it and the tar streaks right off. If you leave it on too long, it'll take the paint right off aluminum siding and the stuff they use to wrap around exposed wood on houses. Most of this stuff is only sold commercially, but if it looks orange in color and smells of citrus, chances are it'll do the job for tar, gum, most adhesives, and Scotch Kote. Bob M. == --- On Tue, 7/22/08, Scott Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Scott Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] How to remove Scotch Kote To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2008, 7:57 PM Awhile back, I had asked this list for ideas on how to remove Scotch Kote weather proofing. I was at an auto detailing place today and just happened to ask them their opinion on the matter. The woman pulled out a liquid in a spray bottle and gave the dried puddle a few squirts. She waited a minute or so, and sprayed the area again. After waiting a few more minutes, she gave another spray and started to brush the area with a stiff bristle brush. Sure enough the scotch cote started to come loose from the carpet. I then asked her to try the spot on the seat. Sure enough, same results. The spray was called 'California orange': http://www.prowax.com/1prod_bulls/C-66pb8_8_07.pdf At almost $80 per gallon, it's a bit pricey. Here is a version in a spray can: http://www.prowax.com/1prod_bulls/ACO_660pb8_8_07.pdf It's a bit more reasonable at $15 per can, but it's not available in all states due to environmental restrictions. There you go. Of course, the best plan is not to spill the stuff. If you do though, this stuff might help you out. Good Luck, Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Rd Boswell, PA 15531
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strange BNC-like connector
Yup, that sure looks like it. BNC, single-hole mount, with three bayonet pins instead of the usual two. The rest of it sure resembles an ordinary BNC connector. Thanks. This connector has been bothering me for years. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 7/23/08, Ed Yoho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ed Yoho [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strange BNC-like connector To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 1:37 PM Bob M. wrote: I've got an old piece of HP test equipment that has a very strange BNC connector on the back. Initially it looks just like an ordinary BNC female jack, and an ordinaryh BNC male connector will start to fit it, but... It has THREE little nibs sticking out the sides at 120 degree offsets, instead of the usual two nibs 180 degrees apart. I've not come upon any other connector like it. A regular BNC male will fit inside but the locking ring with two slots won't mate with the three nibs on the outside of the jack. RF Connectors doesn't have anything like it, and I haven't seen one in the Mouser catalog. I could post a photo if it would be helpful. Anyone have a clue? Bob M. Bob, It sounds like a triax connector. The have an additional isolated shield between the center and outer conductors. Take a look here: http://www.amphenolrf.com/products/triax.asp?N=0sid=48867480942E17F; Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strange BNC-like connector
It does seem that the real triax connector actually has a center pin and two shields, hence tri. Twinax used two center pins. This connector has one center receptacle and one shield connection, just like an ordinary BNC. The only difference I can tell is that there are three pins on the outside bayonet, equally spaced. I replaced it with an ordinary BNC jack, but the mounting hole was smaller, so I had to use some fender washers to install it. Functionally it's fine, but it would have been easier for HP to use an ordinary BNC jack. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 7/23/08, DCFluX [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: DCFluX [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strange BNC-like connector To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 4:21 PM When I think triax I think about the big connectors used on TV cameras, that actually use cable with 3 conductors. Basicly a center and 2 shields. I am not sure that these connectors actually accept 3 conductor cable (Triax).
[Repeater-Builder] Spectra radio FAIL 001 errors
An acquaintance has a 50w VHF Spectra. It was coming up with intermittent FAIL 001 messages on the screen. He had all the electrolytic caps replaced. Now it comes up with FAIL 001 messages whenever he changes modes. They stay there for 3-8 seconds, then go away, and the radio works fine. It just takes a while for things to settle down after changing modes, and they're all programmed within the legal range of the radio, from 146 to 174 MHz. I think it's a cap, or a bad foil feeding a cap, where the old one may have leaked and damaged the board. The radio is in Europe so I'm diagnosing it somewhat remotely. Anyone have suggestions? Bob M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Spectra radio FAIL 001 errors
Well, of course it's a synthesizer problem, although it hasn't failed completely. It's just slow to lock. If I had the radio on my bench, I would find the problem, but it's several thousand miles away in Europe. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 7/16/08, Jim Cicirello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Jim Cicirello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Spectra radio FAIL 001 errors To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 6:51 PM Hi Bob, See the Fail 001 below. Maybe someone knows how to tweek the Synthesizer if that is even possible. Good Luck JIM KA2AJH FAIL 001 Synthesizer out-of-lock condition. Troubleshoot Synthesizer. See: http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/spectra/spectra-error-codes.html - Original Message - From: Bob M. To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:50 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Spectra radio FAIL 001 errors An acquaintance has a 50w VHF Spectra. It was coming up with intermittent FAIL 001 messages on the screen. He had all the electrolytic caps replaced. Now it comes up with FAIL 001 messages whenever he changes modes. They stay there for 3-8 seconds, then go away, and the radio works fine. It just takes a while for things to settle down after changing modes, and they're all programmed within the legal range of the radio, from 146 to 174 MHz. I think it's a cap, or a bad foil feeding a cap, where the old one may have leaked and damaged the board. The radio is in Europe so I'm diagnosing it somewhat remotely. Anyone have suggestions? Bob M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 Uniboard Needed
We need to know what band (VHF, UHF, 800 MHz, 896 MHz) station you have, as the Uniboards are quite different for the 800 and 896 MSFs. I had a problem with those connector assemblies. Some crud on top of the feed-thru capacitor was acting as a semiconductor, dragging a line low and causing all sorts of troubles. The connector assemblies can be unscrewed and unplugged. Scratch a locating mark on each one and remove one at a time. Then use an ohm-meter on every pin to ground and make sure you have infinite resistance (over 100 megohms). I measured 10-50k on one pin to ground with a digital multimeter that uses low-voltage on the ohms scale, but it acted like 1k to ground with 9.6V applied to it. Scraped the crud off the top and bottom of the feed-thru cap and the resistance went back to infinity. Put the cleaned connector assembly back and do another one. Most likely the two that connect the Uniboard to the Interconnect board under the RF tray are the culprits. If pushing on the Uniboard causes the problem to go away, then you should just try to find the signal that's changing and fix that. Could be a cracked foil, a bad solder joint (most unlikely), or a loose pin in one of the Uniboard's sockets. Loose in this context means it got spread internally and isn't putting enough pressure on the gold feed-thru pin. Any repair of this type will be a lot cheaper than another Uniboard. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 7/9/08, garyp609 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: garyp609 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 Uniboard Needed To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 6:18 AM I am looking for a uniboard that snaps into the RF deck. I was having a problem with my repeater being off frequency on the receive side by 6khz. Upon inspection and testing of the repeater at the site by pressing on the uniboard the receive lines up and works fine. There is probably a bad cap or solder joint I was told. If anyone knows where I can get another uniboard please let me know. I was told in another post to clean the connections between the uniboard and the RF deck and it didn't fix the problem. I have narrowed it down to the uniboard so any help in locating one would be apppreciated. Thanks 73's Gary K2ACY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Maxtrac Mic-Hook software option?
It may have something to do with the way the radio was initialized, as in product line, model number, and the various features. Lots of bits, lots of combinations. I'll have to run my 900 MHz radio up and see what's there. I suppose this is one more reason why those who know just jumper the MIC jack pins 3+4; it works on ALL radios, regardless of race, creed, color, sexual preference, or political affiliation. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 7/7/08, skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Maxtrac Mic-Hook software option? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, July 7, 2008, 11:30 AM Hi Bob, Well an interesting thing happens when I try two different band Maxtrac Radios. The Off-Hook option appears in the Radio Wide Settings Table as you suggested, but only for the low UHF and VHF band radios. When I use the same software to read a Conventional 900 Radio the Off-Hook option goes away and all I see is the Handset Y/N option left behind. I know the Conventional Firmware for the 900 Maxtrac radio is different from the lower frequency bands... but the off-hook option would normally be expected to be available in both bands. I guess I'm going to make up more Radius Repeater monitor mute plugs. Thanks for taking the time to reply cheers, skipp Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes. Check the Radio-Wide settings page, left column, bottom. There should be something regarding the hang-up box (HUB). TAB to that field, press F1, read the HELP screen about it, and make the appropriate choice. Most people just short out pins 3+4 on the back of the MIC jack inside the control head. You can still unsquelch the radio by using the MON button on the front. Bob M. == --- On Sun, 7/6/08, skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Maxtrac Mic-Hook software option? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 11:19 AM Hello to you Maxtrac people... Please help me answer an off group email information request. Re: Maxtrac Mobile used as a repeater receiver. Is there a way in programming software to force a mic off-hook CTCSS Decode without having to actually have the mic or a mute plug in the radio front mic jack? Easy enough to make the modular mic on-hook plugs but some radios will allow you to toggle the CTCSS function in software. Thanks in advance for your replies. cheers, skipp
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Maxtrac Mic-Hook software option?
Yes. Check the Radio-Wide settings page, left column, bottom. There should be something regarding the hang-up box (HUB). TAB to that field, press F1, read the HELP screen about it, and make the appropriate choice. Most people just short out pins 3+4 on the back of the MIC jack inside the control head. You can still unsquelch the radio by using the MON button on the front. Bob M. == --- On Sun, 7/6/08, skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Maxtrac Mic-Hook software option? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 11:19 AM Hello to you Maxtrac people... Please help me answer an off group email information request. Re: Maxtrac Mobile used as a repeater receiver. Is there a way in programming software to force a mic off-hook CTCSS Decode without having to actually have the mic or a mute plug in the radio front mic jack? Easy enough to make the modular mic on-hook plugs but some radios will allow you to toggle the CTCSS function in software. Thanks in advance for your replies. cheers, skipp
