[Repeater-Builder] Re: duplexer
Bill, I tried tuning the 522-509 UHF duplexer and do not think I am getting the isolation I will need. It is a strang one. Do you have any specs on it??? Thanks again for the instructions. 73, ron, n9ee/r --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bill Hudson w6...@... wrote: I just uploaded the manual for the application/pdf PD-522-509.pdf http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QKKISXVJzk1H25Gw-jX2o6QkQaLp7PwFU4- gc_uABT4ful y5TVGc2b536zWTjbBUM_MMhUUfS_8DVxpBedWJwoed/PD-522-509.pdf In the files section of this Yahoo Group W6CBS - Bill Hudson _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff DePolo Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:31 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] duplexer If I remember right, it's four notches and two passes. The normal configuration was one pass and one notch on the Rx leg, and two pass and two notch on the Tx leg. --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder% 40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder% 40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] duplexer hi all, I have a Phelps Dodge RFS/Celwave) 522-509 old UHF 6 cavity duplexer. Each cavity has one tuning rod only. Does anyone know what type of duplexer, bpbr, bp, br, etc this critter is. I am trying to tune. 73, ron, n9ee/r No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. http://www.avg.com com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.12/1911 - Release Date: 2/2/2009 7:21 PM
[Repeater-Builder] duplexer
hi all, I have a Phelps Dodge RFS/Celwave) 522-509 old UHF 6 cavity duplexer. Each cavity has one tuning rod only. Does anyone know what type of duplexer, bpbr, bp, br, etc this critter is. I am trying to tune. 73, ron, n9ee/r
[Repeater-Builder] Re: duplexer
Bill, Thanks so much. Just what I needed. 73, ron, n9ee/r --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bill Hudson w6...@... wrote: I just uploaded the manual for the application/pdf PD-522-509.pdf http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QKKISXVJzk1H25Gw-jX2o6QkQaLp7PwFU4- gc_uABT4ful y5TVGc2b536zWTjbBUM_MMhUUfS_8DVxpBedWJwoed/PD-522-509.pdf In the files section of this Yahoo Group W6CBS - Bill Hudson _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff DePolo Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:31 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] duplexer If I remember right, it's four notches and two passes. The normal configuration was one pass and one notch on the Rx leg, and two pass and two notch on the Tx leg. --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder% 40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder% 40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] duplexer hi all, I have a Phelps Dodge RFS/Celwave) 522-509 old UHF 6 cavity duplexer. Each cavity has one tuning rod only. Does anyone know what type of duplexer, bpbr, bp, br, etc this critter is. I am trying to tune. 73, ron, n9ee/r No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. http://www.avg.com com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.12/1911 - Release Date: 2/2/2009 7:21 PM
[Repeater-Builder] Re: isolator
Bob, Yes, I looked for better than hour and did find some good info. I am sure not all for it seems hard to locate some items after having to read thru tons of titles, but then again one learns about other things, hi. 73, ron, n9ee/r ps Thanks to all who replied with real information. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you checked the web site that accompanies this Yahoo! Group? Bob M. == --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] isolator To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 11:01 PM Hi all, I have aquired a EMR Isolator, model 7450/4 for 150-170 Mhz and tuned to 155 MHz. It has 3 tuning adjustments so need to retune it. Can anyone give info as to how to tune it or where I can get info. EMR has good info on what it does and how it works, but found nothing at their site on tuning. Tune for low SWR, max power out, min smoke, etc??? 73, ron, n9ee/r
[Repeater-Builder] isolator
Hi all, I have aquired a EMR Isolator, model 7450/4 for 150-170 Mhz and tuned to 155 MHz. It has 3 tuning adjustments so need to retune it. Can anyone give info as to how to tune it or where I can get info. EMR has good info on what it does and how it works, but found nothing at their site on tuning. Tune for low SWR, max power out, min smoke, etc??? 73, ron, n9ee/r
Re: Re: {Disarmed} Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on Tower Climbers
Bill,
I am not sure who is saying the show is not airing in the USA. It is scheduled
at 10 PM EDT on NBC, Ch 8, on Dateline NBC tonight, Monday. I am in Tampa
Bay area, Florida.
The show Dateline NBC is a USA broadcast company made for USA NBC viewers and
the footage was shot in the USA using USA tower climbing companies.
This is a
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: Bill Till [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/20 Sun PM 11:44:10 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on Tower
Climbers
It's scheduled on NBC on cable up here in the Great White North (which is
green this time of year). Check your local listings. We will get it at 11PM
from KHQ . I can't understand why it wouldn't be aired in the USA. 73 ..
BillVE5FN - Original Message - From: Gmail - Kevin, Natalia,
Stacey Rochelle To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSent: Friday, July
18, 2008 7:08 PM Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline
story on Tower Climbers
Just a shame some of us won't be able to see this interesting doco, not in
the cont USA. Unlikely our TV companies will show this any time soon, maybe
ever. Any change someone will record it and make it available via a
torrent? Heres hoping. Kevin.
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer cables
David, My understanding is the cables between cans is 1/4 wavelength electrically. For RG214 which has a velocity factor of 0.66 at 147 the cables would be about 13.25 inches. Now the type of connectors can influence this in that the connector type might lengthen the cable. N-connectors protude beyond the cable where PL259s do not. The equation is (2951 (inch) / F (MHz)) x vel factor of cable (results is in inches). Might get more info from other on the board. I looked thru the DB probucts cat and they give no info on duplexer cabling. Give about every thing else. If you can get one of these catalogs it has some good info on antennas and duplexers in the back. Today with the internet few have data books or catalogs except on the internet. Instant results instead of waiting weeks sometimes. I have found making the cables between tx and rx can improve slightly duplexer performance, maybe 5 db, but many say it does not matter. Getting this length can be difficult because often inside the repeater tx and rx is cable also. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: David [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/21 Mon PM 12:46:01 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer cables After searching the site I have not been able to figure the cable lenghts I need. Does anyone have the lenghts to bring a Decibel Model # DB4060 duplexer down to 147Mhz? David Epley, N9CZV [EMAIL PROTECTED] Winchester, Indiana Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: {Disarmed} Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on Tower Climbers
Scott,
Would you delete Rick for he replied to the message also, hi.
Delete a user sounds threating...like waste or rub out. I guess remove from
board would be better said.
Just kidding.
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: skyhawk579 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/21 Mon AM 11:57:36 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on Tower Climbers
Scott,
Would you please delete all the user's whom keep responding to this
thread that you've already closed?
tnx,
73's
Rick Klinge
KC5UIW
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Bill,
I am not sure who is saying the show is not airing in the USA. It
is scheduled at 10 PM EDT on NBC, Ch 8, on Dateline NBC tonight,
Monday. I am in Tampa Bay area, Florida.
The show Dateline NBC is a USA broadcast company made for USA NBC
viewers and the footage was shot in the USA using USA tower climbing
companies.
This is a
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: Bill Till [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/20 Sun PM 11:44:10 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story
on Tower Climbers
It's scheduled on NBC on cable up here in the Great White North
(which is green this time of year). Check your local listings. We
will get it at 11PM from KHQ . I can't understand why it wouldn't be
aired in the USA. 73 .. BillVE5FN - Original Message -
From: Gmail - Kevin, Natalia, Stacey Rochelle To: Repeater-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 7:08 PM
Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on
Tower Climbers
Just a shame some of us won't be able to see this interesting
doco, not in the cont USA. Unlikely our TV companies will show this
any time soon, maybe ever. Any change someone will record it and
make it available via a torrent? Heres hoping. Â Kevin.
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: {Disarmed} Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on Tower Climbers
Scott,
I WAS NOT NIT PICKING AND TELLING YOU HOW TO RUN YOUR LIST. AND AS I SAID
JUST KIDDING. I think someone else was trying to tell you how to run the
list. Someone else was suggesting you should delete others.
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: Scott Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/21 Mon PM 02:26:01 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on Tower
Climbers
Ron,
DON'T LECTURE ME ON HOW TO RUN MY LIST.
I am composing a reply to follow shortly. It's nit-picking, like you have
just shown, that causes more frustration than anything.
Scott
Scott Zimmerman
Amateur Radio Call N3XCC
474 Barnett Rd
Boswell, PA 15531
- Original Message -
From: Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on Tower
Climbers
Scott,
Would you delete Rick for he replied to the message also, hi.
Delete a user sounds threating...like waste or rub out. I guess remove
from board would be better said.
Just kidding.
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: skyhawk579 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/21 Mon AM 11:57:36 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on Tower
Climbers
Scott,
Would you please delete all the user's whom keep responding to this
thread that you've already closed?
tnx,
73's
Rick Klinge
KC5UIW
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Bill,
I am not sure who is saying the show is not airing in the USA. It
is scheduled at 10 PM EDT on NBC, Ch 8, on Dateline NBC tonight,
Monday. I am in Tampa Bay area, Florida.
The show Dateline NBC is a USA broadcast company made for USA NBC
viewers and the footage was shot in the USA using USA tower climbing
companies.
This is a
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: Bill Till [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/20 Sun PM 11:44:10 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story
on Tower Climbers
It's scheduled on NBC on cable up here in the Great White North
(which is green this time of year). Check your local listings. We
will get it at 11PM from KHQ . I can't understand why it wouldn't be
aired in the USA. 73 .. BillVE5FN - Original Message -
From: Gmail - Kevin, Natalia, Stacey Rochelle To: Repeater-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 7:08 PM
Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on
Tower Climbers
Just a shame some of us won't be able to see this interesting
doco, not in the cont USA. Unlikely our TV companies will show this
any time soon, maybe ever. Any change someone will record it and
make it available via a torrent? Heres hoping. Â Kevin.
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Yahoo! Groups Links
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.3/1563 - Release Date: 7/20/2008
12:59 PM
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Warning for Ron Wright was NBC Dateline
Kevin, I've removed myself from receiving additional e-mails from the list. I don't need this junk from a tower climber. I have not seen your reply to the one who ask Scott to delete users. My reply was as stated a joke. Sorry you could not see it. Have a good day. 73, ron, n9ee/r --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Custer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ron, I have banned you before for being out of line - you are headed in that direction again - quickly. My patience is running thinner by the day. Don't tell us how to moderate our lists, we are fully capable of determining how far out of whack to let things get. Kevin Custer List Owner (Certified in Tower Climbing/Rescue - Citca)
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PL Problem
A good rig has a PL filter so you don't hear it, but know it comes thru on some rigs. Does sound annoying when it does. Also need to remove from the repeater receiver for it might beat with the tx generated PL due to it being slightly different freq/phase. Most rigs will not pass low freq PL thru their audio input. This is why most rigs have seperate input for PL encode. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: JOHN MACKEY [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/20 Sun PM 02:37:13 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PL Problem I set all my repeaters for 450 Hz to 550 hz and have never had a problem with listeners being able to decode. so something in the range that David suggests below should be fine. I know some people who think PL level should be set at 750 hz to 900 hz. In my opinion, that is way to high, and it is annoying to hear the PL tone which can be done at those levels. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 06:45:05 AM PDT From: David Murman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PL Problem Run all my repeaters with a tone of 600 hz. This is what GE recommended when I was in the 2-way business. So far all three repeaters, two VHF and one UHF have had no problem with any radio being able to decode the tone. David -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nj902 Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 9:37 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PL Problem Actually, what I think what I confirmed is that I passed reading comprehension... The Standard is 500 to 1000 Hz . Period. . --- In Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My statement about the definition of Standard CTCSS Modulation is correct, and thank you for confirming that. ... Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PL Problem
Paul, The same happens with DTMF. If one has too much distortion the low group harmonics get into the high group and confuse the decoder. DTMF decoder ICs do the same period averaging. On the u thing use to be more of a problem with SSB and VOX. Some of us to prevent clipping of the first word during key up would get into the habit of saying uhhh before we started talking. Was more of a mental thing and not necessary, hi. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Paul Plack [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/20 Sun PM 04:48:40 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PL Problem Guys, this is nothing more than really low-frequency DTMF. It should work fine if the levels are low enough that they're not clipped or otherwise distorted. In a non-linear stage, they'll cause audio intermodulation distortion. If the combined voice + CTCSS level hits the limits of a clipper for a long enough duration, (like the guys who feel the need to key their mics before thinking of what they'll say, and fill with u..wbr.) you could drop the receiver if the audio distortion confuses the CTCSS decoder. But that could happen with a single tione, too. 73,Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Ron WrightTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 1:10 PM Subject: Re: Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PL Problem John, I've wondered about multi-PL tones at one time. I am sure with the older reeds not a problem, but newer IC type usually take in the PL, strip off the higher freq audio leaving only the PL and then feed to a pin that I am sure is counting the period or doing some period averaging. The Comm Spec TS64 has to be this way for they use a 6800 ventage CPU for their decoder. If 2 PLs were present this would have a wierd wave form and bet might not decode. I've never tried it, but would be interesting to try. I have used multi-PLs on a single rcvr for control and other purposes, but never at the same time. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on Tower Climbers
Kevin, Might be good to record this and put on DVD so some like you could get to view. I know there would copywrite issues, but think nothing would be said if offered for free download. Just make sure you put the advertising in. However, as I do, I fast forward thru these, but still some PR to help. Also might be able to get on internet by going to NBC.com and they might have at a site after the show airs. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Gmail - Kevin, Natalia, Stacey Rochelle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/18 Fri PM 09:08:53 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on Tower Climbers Just a shame some of us won't be able to see this interesting doco, not in the cont USA. Unlikely our TV companies will show this any time soon, maybe ever.Any change someone will record it and make it available via a torrent?Heres hoping. Kevin. - Original Message - From: Chris HuberTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 12:26 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on Tower Climbers For those interested in seeing what tower climbers go through. DATELINE NBC ANNOUNCEMENT - final.doc DATELINE PRESENTS TOWER DOGS - MONDAY, JULY 21 July 16, 2008 DATELINE PRESENTS TOWER DOGS -- A NEVER-BEFORE- SEEN LOOK AT THE MOST DANGEROUS JOB IN AMERICA -- MONDAY, JULY 21 AT 10 PM (New York) - July 16, 2008 - An upcoming Dateline Presents takes a never-before-seen journey into the perilous world of the tower climbers who work on the frontlines of America's high-tech communications system. They scale heights of up to 2,000 feet, in all types of weather, to install, maintain, and upgrade cell phone, Internet, and broadcast towers coast to coast. And according to figures cited by OSHA, these so-called tower dogs have the highest death rate per capita of any occupation in the country. The hour-long broadcast goes up close and personal to give a no- holds-barred look at tower dogs' lives - up in the air and on the ground. We experience their on-the-job tension and watch them work hard, play hard, and mourn when they lose one of their own. In a twist on all the dangerous-job programs viewers have already seen, Tower Dogs follows an unusual subcontract crew boss: a woman named X XXX, a single mom, former cheerleader, and the person keeping her tough-guy charges in one piece. There are approximately 9,500 tower climbers working at any given time, and they spend about 300 days per year on the road. A Dateline team worked with veteran tower dog Doug Delaney for four months documenting this group of tower climbers as they worked their way through 40 towns and cities in 24 states. During this time there were seven fatalities nationwide, including five deaths in a 12-day period in April. Tower Dogs airs on Monday, July 21st at 10:00 PM/ET. David Corvo is the executive producer. Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on Tower Climbers
Kevin, On this same subject many of the doc type programs they give an ad for where you can get a copy for money of course. In US you got the money you can get anything, hi. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Gmail - Kevin, Natalia, Stacey Rochelle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/18 Fri PM 09:08:53 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on Tower Climbers Just a shame some of us won't be able to see this interesting doco, not in the cont USA. Unlikely our TV companies will show this any time soon, maybe ever.Any change someone will record it and make it available via a torrent?Heres hoping. Kevin. - Original Message - From: Chris HuberTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 12:26 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on Tower Climbers For those interested in seeing what tower climbers go through. DATELINE NBC ANNOUNCEMENT - final.doc DATELINE PRESENTS TOWER DOGS - MONDAY, JULY 21 July 16, 2008 DATELINE PRESENTS TOWER DOGS -- A NEVER-BEFORE- SEEN LOOK AT THE MOST DANGEROUS JOB IN AMERICA -- MONDAY, JULY 21 AT 10 PM (New York) - July 16, 2008 - An upcoming Dateline Presents takes a never-before-seen journey into the perilous world of the tower climbers who work on the frontlines of America's high-tech communications system. They scale heights of up to 2,000 feet, in all types of weather, to install, maintain, and upgrade cell phone, Internet, and broadcast towers coast to coast. And according to figures cited by OSHA, these so-called tower dogs have the highest death rate per capita of any occupation in the country. The hour-long broadcast goes up close and personal to give a no- holds-barred look at tower dogs' lives - up in the air and on the ground. We experience their on-the-job tension and watch them work hard, play hard, and mourn when they lose one of their own. In a twist on all the dangerous-job programs viewers have already seen, Tower Dogs follows an unusual subcontract crew boss: a woman named X XXX, a single mom, former cheerleader, and the person keeping her tough-guy charges in one piece. There are approximately 9,500 tower climbers working at any given time, and they spend about 300 days per year on the road. A Dateline team worked with veteran tower dog Doug Delaney for four months documenting this group of tower climbers as they worked their way through 40 towns and cities in 24 states. During this time there were seven fatalities nationwide, including five deaths in a 12-day period in April. Tower Dogs airs on Monday, July 21st at 10:00 PM/ET. David Corvo is the executive producer. Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on Tower Climbers
It says on NBC. If you don't have NBC programming you aint going to watch it no matter what the announcement said, hi. Most of the world does not have NBC just like most of US does not have the Japanese networks for many reasons. Also tomorrow is Sunday in the US where the program airs. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: wd8chl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/19 Sat PM 02:49:24 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] NBC Dateline story on Tower Climbers Gmail - Kevin, Natalia, Stacey Rochelle wrote: Just a shame some of us won't be able to see this interesting doco, not in the cont USA. Unlikely our TV companies will show this any time soon, maybe ever. Any change someone will record it and make it available via a torrent? Heres hoping. Kevin. It says right in the note that it airs monday night (tomorrow) at 10PM eastern on NBC. Check your local listings. It should be on your local NBC affiliate. I would say if not, it's your local station censoring it for some stupid reason. Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
Eric, Thanks for the info. Yes we all went thru the vacuum cleaner current junk days. I guess was good marketing tool. Now it is how quiet and how it will clean your home air. Still little about how well it will clean what you want it for except for picking up MMs and bolts. The bowling ball pick up is still hanging in there, hi. So we can get 15 Amps out of a 15 amp 14-2 w/G circuit if needed. That was my question. The safety factor is my concern. We all know we should normally not load 100%, but how does one know in typical life. Most users don't even know what load is let alone how much it is. That is where the NEC comes in to give some assurance it is safe, not workable, but safe and that is how it should be. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/17 Thu PM 11:47:03 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Ron, That is a good question. The answer is that one is not supposed to connect any load greater than 12 amperes to an outlet rated at 15 amperes, that is, a NEMA 5-15R receptacle. The NEC allows two or more 15-ampere-rated outlets to be installed on a 20-ampere branch circuit (wired with 12 AWG conductors and a 20A fuse or circuit breaker), but the limit of 12 amperes on each outlet still applies. Proof of this restriction is evident in the vacuum cleaner wars of a decade or so ago. Hoover came out with a vacuum cleaner with 7 amperes of cleaning power. Then Bissel came out with a unit claiming 9 amperes of cleaning power. Other vacuum cleaner makers entered the fray until all of the brands had units with 12 amperes of cleaning power. The reason that nobody offered a unit with 13 amperes of cleaning power is because they would then have to equip that unit with a NEMA 5-20P plug and at least a 14/3 power cord. Most older homes do not have NEMA 5-20R outlets, so such a vacuum cleaner could not be plugged in to the outlets in most homes. Besides, there is no credibility to a laughable rating of cleaning power expressed in amperes! That is about as silly as claiming that a mobile radio has 13.8 volts of talk power! Back to your second question. By definition, a 15-ampere-rated branch circuit has circuit conductors of #14 AWG or larger, and is protected by a fuse or circuit breaker rated at 15 amperes. The fuse or circuit breaker should hold indefinitely at 15 amperes, but the NEC recognizes that allowing 100% of rated current is never a good idea, since wiring in attics may already be in a very hot environment. Therefore, the NEC requires that no ordinary branch circuit be permitted to be loaded more than 80% of the circuit rating. That's where the 12 and 16 ampere limits come from. Another issue is voltage drop, which is directly proportional to circuit loading. Circuits that are loaded to 100% of rating will probably have excessive voltage drop, which leads to inefficient operation. Good electrical design dictates that the wire size be increased for long runs, to keep the voltage drop below 3%. Moreover, an adequate electrical supply system should never experience more than 80% loading of any circuit. Very heavy single loads should have a dedicated branch circuit of suitable capacity, with a single outlet. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 8:07 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Eric, Question about the outlets. Is the only reason one cannot get more than 12 amp from a 15 amp outlet is the rules so if one is designing a power system if more than 12 amps is required one has to put in 20 amp outlet to meet code??? I would think one could get 15 amps due to the breaker able to handle it or are 15 amp breakers designed to trip at just above 12 amps??? 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:wb6fly%40verizon.net Date: 2008/07/17 Thu PM 11:00:53 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Wayne, That is not exactly true. An outlet rated at 15 amperes cannot have any load greater than 12 amperes plugged into it. An outlet rated at 20 amperes cannot have any load greater than 16 amperes plugged into it. This is clearly stated in Article 210.21(B)(2) of the National Electrical Code. A device that actually draws 20 amperes at 120 VAC must be plugged into an outlet and branch circuit rated at 30 amperes. When load currents exceed 16 amperes at 120 VAC, it's time to consider a branch circuit rated at 208 or 240 VAC. Most repeaters and high-power PAs have optional connections to enable operation on 208 or 240 VAC. Keep in mind that there is no such voltage as 220 although that obsolete figure
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] PL Problem
PL is usually aroung 800 Hz. 1 K little high, but should not cause a problem unless the problem radio's PL circuits are being over driven. I would get the problem radios on a service monitor. Some of the IC PL units, which probably is what is in these radios, and there might be a problem with them not being on PL freq. Generate the input rcv signal with PL from the service monitor and see how far off PL tone freq you can be. Might find they are on the edge decoding sometimes and not others. Also could verify if receivers have a sen problem. With radios in PL it is often harder to tell if signal is fading since PL cuts in and out and cannot open sq for this test. I would want to verify problem receivers are working before I tore into the base/repeater. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: David Murman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/18 Fri PM 07:49:19 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] PL Problem Isn’t1K a little hot for PL tone? David -Original Message- From:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tgundo2003 Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 7:56AM To:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] PLProblem I need some suggestions. It seems that my users that have newer Motorola Astro series radios have a problem on my Micor UHF repeater where the PL does not always open up their radios. It seems that it's only Astro type radios that have the problem. I have the PL Deveation set at 1K. It's generated internally on the uni-chassis TX PL board. I have 2 GP-300's, 1 MAxtrac, 1GM300, a Yeasu dual band Mobile and a Radio Shack HTX-404 (With an MDC board installed it in! I actually love that little radio) and None of them have any problems decoding the PL. So what's up with the new stuff? It it really picky? what else should I check? Thanks!! Tom W9SRV P.S.- I told them all to buy old radios and be done with it. Besides the TX audio out of the new stuff sucks anyways, IMHO, unless you like listening to over-processed crap ;) Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mitrek on 6 meters.
Mick, By Mot spec the upper limit is 50 MHz. I have a mitrek that I simply bought the 52.525 crystals, installed in the supplied ch ele which was on the 143 range and tuned and all worked fine without any mods. Do need the manual or tuning procedure and if you got Mot test set makes it easier. I've only done one of these and as with any component there are tolorances. So one might tune and another might not. Just have to try. As in another posting mods were done to make it move. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: mickupi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/17 Thu PM 03:50:37 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Mitrek on 6 meters. Does anyone know if the Mitrek will tune up and work on 6 meters? One source says the top freq is 50 mhz, and another says it is 54 mhz. My model number is T81JJA4900CK and HUB1054C Thanks, Mick, KB4UPI Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Harmoinic products
Mark, Usually desense is not harmonic or intermod related. It is caused by wide band noise from a transmitter. For harmonic it is just 2,3,4, etc times a frequency. For intermod it is nF1 +/- mF2 = your receive freq. In either case the problem will be there only when the offending txs are keyed up. Is the 904 tx keyed all the time? If not then you can determine if coming from it. Listen when it is unkeyed for the problem. If it is keyed all the time then I would put your friends tx on a dummy load with the remaining parts of the repeater, duplexer antenna receiver, connected. This can aid in determining if your tx is part of the problem. What are the freqs of your friends repeater? 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/17 Thu PM 03:11:13 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Harmoinic products OK, it’s been a while since I’ve had to computethis, so if my question seems a bit “trivial” or elementary innature I apologize in advance. Yes, my math is rusty. ;-) Having said that, I’m trying to assist another hamwith a desense problem he is experiencing on his 900 MHz ham-band repeater. He is experiencing about 10dB of receiver desense because of a signal centeredat 904 MHz. He tells me this is verified with a Spectrum Analyzer and itis about 100 kHz wide… I take him at his word. The site he isat has no other 900 MHz at all, but it is a commercial site with other “stuff”,including various government and commercial frequencies, in use. What I am trying to do is see if we can figure out whetherthis might be a spur, or some maybe harmonic, that is being generated as theresult of a mix of other products there. Can anyone provide me with the math necessary to try todetermine whether this is a harmonic, using very rudimentary figures? (For example, I want to be able to use basic freqs like 150 MHz, 450 MHz, etc,to at least get us in the ball park.) Once we get close, then we canfine-tune the freq combinations to see if it is a mix product. Or ifanyone has any ideas, I’m certainly open to suggestions. Thanks, Mark – N9WYS Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
Eric, Question about the outlets. Is the only reason one cannot get more than 12 amp from a 15 amp outlet is the rules so if one is designing a power system if more than 12 amps is required one has to put in 20 amp outlet to meet code??? I would think one could get 15 amps due to the breaker able to handle it or are 15 amp breakers designed to trip at just above 12 amps??? 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/17 Thu PM 11:00:53 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Wayne, That is not exactly true. An outlet rated at 15 amperes cannot have any load greater than 12 amperes plugged into it. An outlet rated at 20 amperes cannot have any load greater than 16 amperes plugged into it. This is clearly stated in Article 210.21(B)(2) of the National Electrical Code. A device that actually draws 20 amperes at 120 VAC must be plugged into an outlet and branch circuit rated at 30 amperes. When load currents exceed 16 amperes at 120 VAC, it's time to consider a branch circuit rated at 208 or 240 VAC. Most repeaters and high-power PAs have optional connections to enable operation on 208 or 240 VAC. Keep in mind that there is no such voltage as 220 although that obsolete figure is still in common usage. The nominal single-phase voltage supplied to residences is 120/240 VAC, while the electrical supply to light commercial, apartment complexes, and condos is usually 120/208 VAC derived from two phases of a three-phase distribution system. I mention this because a fellow Ham who now lives in a large apartment complex mentioned to me that his 500 watt rig that worked fine in his former home was not putting out full power at his new location. The cause was revealed when he measured his line-to-line voltage as close to 208 VAC. His power amplifier was rated for 240 VAC, but was starving when fed 87% of its design voltage. A commercially-available boost transformer was installed to give him a true 240 VAC supply. Problem solved. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wayne Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 11:01 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies To properly plug in an item that is a 20 amp draw. etc., one should install a 20 amp outlet. This can be single or duplex, and is readily spotted (if dual purpose) by the fact that one side will be flat instead of vertical, or have both horizontal and vertical on that side. the flat/horizontal is on the neutral side. Not to be confused with a similar looking outlet for 250 volts, which has two flats , and one has vertical as well on the left side, looking at the front with the ground hole down. Anyway, there are oulets made for 20 or more amps, which are different than the 15 amp common outlets. local ordinances can often be more stringent than even the NEC codes. of course, if you are running a high power repeater, you would probably wish to put it on a circuit breaker by itself. But ordinary house wiring normally has several outlets wired in series from one breaker, and is NEC approved that way. Shop and Industrial become another matter, ha ha ha... Wayne WA2YNE On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 20:08:33 -0500, Bruce Bagwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I figured that was A local code, not NEC. The only reason I can think of for that requirement is the ampacity of the 12 or 14 ga wires. While we all know, in actual use, 2 or more outlets strung along will not all have 15 amp or higher loads in EACH outlet. However, theoretically, each outlet could have A 20 amp load plugged into it.That is probably why some pencil pusher decided each outlet needs its own wire. (Never mind the fact the breaker would trip regardless of what is plugged into each outlet or the number of wires leading to said outlets, but that's another crazy thread) As for the Breaker Box, I would assume each also has its own breaker. Trying to stuff more than one wire into A breaker would more fun than I care to have. Bruce KE5TPN -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ Yahoo! Groups Links Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 12v 24 hr timer high current circuit needed..or means of external power cycling
Rusty, I've used a circuit that looks at the ptt and if it stays continously keyed for more than 10 minutes, continously, the circuit removes power from the controller for about 1.5 sec, enough time for things to drain, and then re-applies power. The circuit reset the 10 minute timer on ptt going hi, unkeyed. The circuit is all hardware, no CPU. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Rusty Boling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/15 Tue AM 09:07:16 EDT To: repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 12v 24 hr timer high current circuit needed..or means of external power cycling Hey guys, just trying to figure out a quick and dirty way to automatically cycle power to a repeater one time per day for a short period of time. Been having problems with the repeater that I maintain. Basically figuring it's a controller glitch, but occasionally the repeater will lock up on transmit until power to the repeater and controller are cycled. I am pretty sure it's a glitch in the controller as this has happened on and off for years but for some unknown reason it has occured more as of late. It's not a huge deal, but it is a pain in the rump to drive to the site every time that it occurs to do a manual reset. So what I have done over the years is install a 120V timer in line with the power supply and cycle the power once per night for 1 minute at a time and that keeps me from driving 30 miles, through 4 gates, cow patties, and jungle-like conditions each way to get to the site. At any rate, I basically need a timer that will run on 12V, that can power a relay that can cycle power to the repeater (and controller specifially, but want to do both) as I would like to get this repeater back on it's battery backup without having to drive up there every time that it has a glitch to do a full power cycle when what I am speaking of will atleast solve the problem 1 to 2 times per day depending on how many times I have it recycle daily. It would not be a big deal to drive up there as I used to do when I was single and had no children, but nowadays when the thing locks up on transmit it's never at a conveinient time now that family life is a big concern and my phone rings off the hook (with hams that never use the repeater, unfortunately) with people calling me to let me know the repeater has hung up again on transmit and sometimes I simply can't get away quickly to fix the problem. Not that it's needed particularly as the solution could apply to any repeater, but it's a GE Mastr II UHF 100W repeater with a CAT-300DX controller. If anyone else has had this problem then let me know what you have came up with. Of course, if anyone has a better idea other than cycling power to it once or twice per day automatically I am open to that idea as well. I would absolutely love to have a remote radio up there with a dtmf decoder and some type of EXTERNAL controller up there on an extra control frequency that I can use to control an external relay to fill this function. I have a good spare 2m mobile that would be perfect for the cause. If anyone can lead me in the right direction please respond back to me (preferably direct). My email is ae4bkatyahoo.com Spelled out the @ to help avoid potential spam issues that can result from various reflectorsThanks in advance.Rusty Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 narrow banding
The MSR2000 does not have a syntheser...it is crystal controlled. Maybe you are thinking of the MSF5000, hi. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: nj902 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/16 Wed AM 11:07:26 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 narrow banding There is a special RSS for the MSR2000 that will let you put it on any frequency you want. You don't even need to sign a license agreement. Just call International Crystal. They can 'reprogram' the MSR2000 'synthesizers' for you. ;) -- --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, wd8chl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One BIG glitch-depending on the band/frequency, it may not program to the new frequency. On VHF especially, there are channels that cannot be programmed in the synthesizer. ... Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 narrow banding
Mike, I did wonder about the special RSS comment, no license aggreement and calling ICM. I thought well maybe it was something someone came up with on their own, but ICM was out of place for even that. But wanted to make sure. Actually I was thinking maybe someone came up with a synth to replace the MSR2000 ch ele. I had thought of this while back for some of the older GEs and Mot rigs. I bet one could manuf for the price of a crystals especially when a complete synth HT goes for $100-140. Synths are all over the place. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/16 Wed PM 01:40:34 EDT To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 narrow banding Ron, I think you missed the humor of the response. Mike/W5JR ---[Original Message]--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Jul 16, 2008 1:25:57 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 narrow banding The MSR2000 does not have a syntheser...it is crystal controlled. Maybe you are thinking of the MSF5000, hi. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: nj902 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/16 Wed AM 11:07:26 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 narrow banding There is a special RSS for the MSR2000 that will let you put it on any frequency you want. You don't even need to sign a license agreement. Just call International Crystal. They can 'reprogram' the MSR2000 'synthesizers' for you. ;) -- --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, wd8chl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One BIG glitch-depending on the band/frequency, it may not program to the new frequency. On VHF especially, there are channels that cannot be programmed in the synthesizer. ... Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder ] Re: RadioShack Recalls P ower Supplies Due toElec trocution and Fire Hazards
Wayne, I've seen some shotty wiring also. Scares you sometimes thinking what can happen especially if the wire used is too small. One note is from the Philipenes. There they use, as many other countries do, 220 VAC, but use the same 110 outlet we use here in the US. My wife is from there and we sent a TV/VCR to her family with a 220 to 110 converter which worked well. Then the converter went bad so they simply plugged the TV into their outlet. Next they were asking about parts for it and where to buy. I told them forget it for it was in house part numbers and little chance of finding them. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Wayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/14 Mon AM 03:00:56 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards I have seen instances where a light switch to a ceiling fixture was put in the neutral side, nd not the hot side of the line. I have also seen where some hams, to save money, were using 120 volt 3 prong plugs for their mobile radios. Thinking what would happen if someone else plugged it into a 120 volt outlet, ha ha ha. I also dislike 12 volt light fixtures that take a 12 volt screw in bulb of the same size as a 120 volt light bulb. Took me a while to figure that out on a 5th wheel I had, and putting a 120volt bulb in it would not light. A previous owner had rewired the light over the bathroom sink for 120 volts, but using zip cord. At one corner of a 10 acre plot, of which I own 1/4, there is an electrical box on a pole, no switches or breakers, that still has 430 volts coming into it. they use a lot of supposed 480 volt motors around here for oil well pumps. They wire two transformer outputs in series to get the 480. Some, but not all, meter boxes are marked 480 volts. I see a lot of poor wiring around this area. I even found one outlet in this house, one of only two left, that had the white and black wires reversed. I redid that before I hooke that line up to a new breaker panel. I had to extend the wire, but did that in a box to be sure of what I had. I always tend to check each outlet to be sure it is wired correctly. Most of the ceiling lights that had been in here were poorly wired with no boxes at the fixtures. I'm putting in boxes where I will be wiring ceiling/wall fixtures. It doesn't take that much to do a proper wiring job, compared to a lousy jb with possible hazards... YMMV Wayne WA2YNE On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:39:50 -0500, Bruce Bagwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are many makes of voltage sensing sticks one can get basically anywhere. Many times I have seen outlets Converted to 3 wire from two, only to find all they did was ground from the neutral wire. That means I get all kinds of RFI and if the Ground ever dropped, it would be HOT just from the return from the light bulb or whatever. BTW, those cheap Testers will NOT detect HOT/Ground/Neutral Reverse! If in doubt, run a wire from a known ground to your Meter and find what wires are Hot I remember A house I rented, every time I touched the light switch/outlet in the garage I got tickled Glad I knew what was going on or else I might have made full contact, and I would not be typing this right now! Swapped the HOT/Neutral/Ground and all was OK! Always remember, just because the outlet is Grounded does not mean it is really Grounded Verify! Stay safe out there! Bruce Bagwell KE5TPN -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ Yahoo! Groups Links Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Switching a Repeater Betwen AC Sources
Laryn, As recommended by Eric, I and others a relay would be simple thing to do using the normal outlet until it failed and then automatically switch over to the RED outlet. I am sure one could come up with a complex way of doing it with some good reasons, but a simple 3 pole/double throw relay being powered from the normal white outlet would work with you not having to worry about tripping the RED breaker under normal use. If 40 years ago we would suggest you put a penny in the fuse socket, hi. Back then you could probably get away with it, but today just doing it would get your repeater tossed into the next county. That is what we need...panel circuit breakers with penny slots. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Laryn Lohman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/13 Sun PM 11:57:05 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Switching a Repeater Betwen AC Sources Thanks for the great posts so far. Perhaps I didn't make it clear in my original post--our equipment is and always has been plugged into the red receptacle. It was installed by hospital electricians a number of years ago for us, and we are the sole load on the circuit. It was the recent storm, and presumed lightning strike, that tripped the AC breaker in the emergency breaker panel in the penthouse where our stuff is. The point of all this is that the breaker tripped, leaving our equipment with no power duh hehehe. So I was proposing a method of implementing a backup breaker in case one breaker trips. My proposal is that our normal, daily supply would be the white receptacle. If it goes dead, whether from utility failure or breaker trip, we have the red receptacle, which will then be ready to feed our stuff. The reason we would not want to be on the red receptacle normally is that in case of a lightning strike we are potentially left with a dead red from the strike, and dead white if the utility is down. Obviously, another strike, after we've switched to the red, kills AC totally to our stuff. The presumption is that a breaker probably won't trip, even after a strike, if there's not a load of some sort on it to complete a path for the tripping current. Make sense? Eric, I think you're on my line of thinking. Good point on keeping the greens isolated. Laryn K8TVZ Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: do you believe this
Johnny, This is true. We all have the idea in us that if it is in print it is true, more than if someone speaks the same. Just something about it being in print especially in a newspaper or magazine. But when you think of it all this is written by someone that puts their pants on the same as us so what makes them so special. Of course we need to believe some, but investigate it. The other problem one will write something then other writers pick it up and they write the same in their words and before you know it it is true. Guess the Russian thought of if you tell a lie enough times it will become the truth. I still like the PO Office 3 cent charge for e-mails. Have not seen this for a while. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Johnny [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/14 Mon AM 10:42:57 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: do you believe this You would be suprised how many idiots see something like this and consider it gospal fact. Johnny Tom wrote: There was a recent article where the businessman that commissioned the ad acknowledged that it was phony. Seems he worked for a headset manufacturer that was trying to suggest the safety hazard of holding a cell phone next to one's head, thereby promoting headset sales. It didn't take this admission to realize that the ad was phony. The laws of physics clearly show that a few hundred milliwatts (or even a few watts) from a cellphone, or even a dozen cellphones, for that matter, cannot produce enough heat to vaporize the water in a kernel of popcorn. Add to that the fact that, when several phones are used, who's to say that the signals are all in phase, therefore additive. They could just as easily be 180 degrees out of phase and therefore, essentially cancel each other out. Just takes a few seconds thought to write that kind of rubbish off. I take this kind of advertising as an insult to my intelligence. Tom --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope. Richard http://www.n7tgb.net/ www.n7tgb.net _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 8:10 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] do you believe this hi all, This kinda repeater related, but do you believe this: http://www.koreus. http://www.koreus.com/video/telephone-portable-mais-popcorn.html com/video/telephone-portable-mais-popcorn.html Popping pop corn with a cel phone video. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Yahoo! Groups Links Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Switching a Repeater Betwen AC Sources
Kris, I think you need to read the initial and follow up postings. It is thought that if either the normally used white outlet and/or unused RED outlet were not in use at the time of the lightning strike it would not have tripped their breaker. So it is thought if the breaker that was to the outlet was in use and got hit and braker tripped then something would switch over to the other unused RED emergency powered outlet. If lightning did hit the relay or anything else it will do as it wants. The posting of using a UPS after a relay switch appeals to me. This way when there was switching between the sources the UPS could buffer the short loss of power and the repeaters and other equipment would not see a change. Also the UPS would have to maintain power for short period of time and could be lower VA unit, possible 500 VA. Most UPSs have surge and some lightning protection. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Kris Kirby [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/14 Mon AM 11:41:00 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Switching a Repeater Betwen AC Sources On Mon, 14 Jul 2008, Laryn Lohman wrote: The reason we would not want to be on the red receptacle normally is that in case of a lightning strike we are potentially left with a dead red from the strike, and dead white if the utility is down. Obviously, another strike, after we've switched to the red, kills AC totally to our stuff. The presumption is that a breaker probably won't trip, even after a strike, if there's not a load of some sort on it to complete a path for the tripping current. Make sense? We're talking about an ionized channel of electrons that can cross hundreds of feet vertically, and still generate smaller channels within the radio shed that can jump a foot or more. Do you really think that a 3PDT relay with contacts one quarter of an inch apart represents an obstacle for this immense charge of electricity? I understand that you want to get it back on the air yesterday, but unless you've implemented a lightning arrestor on every bloody port of every bloody device, I wouldn't bet that you could keep the breaker from tripping. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: antenna mounting hardware
Al, Yes, I had thought of the threaded bolts. I have some I am going to use, but in a strieght format with half clamp plates. My application is going high on a 5.25 leg tower and need some hardware to secure a top and bottom antenna mount. I found some material at this site for SitePro1: http://www.sitepro1.com/?OVRAW=Bolt%20UOVKEY=bolt%20uOVMTC=standardOVADID=4835093522OVKWID=42106146522 There prices are good and have lots of heavy hot dipped Galvanized. It seems, like in aircraft, if one goes to a radio comm equipment site the prices near double or sometimes much more. Thanks for the info on the threaded bolts. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Al Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/13 Sun AM 01:59:28 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: antenna mounting hardware Ron, I've often used All-Thread for U bolts and V bolts, you know, the continuously threaded rod often found at the local hardware store. The all-thread is easily wrapped around a piece of pipe or angle by putting one end into a vise and inserting the other end part way into a short section of 3/4 pipe or conduit and bent into shape around a mandrel. One might need to apply some heat to the rod if the bending angle is really sharp, but I've never had to with the ones I've delt with. The all-thread comes in many sizes and lengths and is easily cut to size with a hacksaw. (Do this only after it is bent to shape and some nuts screwed on before cutting!) The V shaped grooves of the all-thread bite into the tower leg and don't slip. Last year I disassembled an AM broadcast skirt antenna that I installed in 1975 using hardware held together with the all-thead U bolts I made back then. This was on a tower with four inch diameter legs. The tower was rusting from the inside of the legs and needed to be replaced but the 1/2 all-thread was still in perfect shape more than thirty years later. It goes without saying that these bolts need to be kept painted as they are bare steel. I used Rustoleum for this. After the first coat they got repainted every time we had the tower painted. Good luck, Al, K9SI Does anyone know of a source or V-clamps or the like for 5.25 legs??? This has to be hardware that will last 20 years and not hose clamps which I have. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Measuring Desense
Randy, I think this is what we said, just little difference in the time. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: wb8art [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/12 Sat PM 07:51:59 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Measuring Desense I don't beleive that to be correct. The FCC has mandated 3 years for the continued carriage of analog. Some exceptions on small systems and low bandwidth but most will still carry analog. Randy --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 12, 2008, at 9:31 AM, Ron Wright wrote: Understand the FCC has mandated typical coaxial cable keep analog to I think 2012 although they can offer digital on the cable as Bright House does here. Their set-top boxes have to provide analog service to the TV itself, but what they send down their distribution pipe is up to them. -- Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: antenna mounting hardware
Eric, Thanks for the tip on the supplier. I would prefer the galvanized and fixed hardware for this, but might consider the all-threaded stock. Probably half dozen/six of the other. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/13 Sun PM 12:56:00 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: antenna mounting hardware Al and Ron, I would prefer to use stainless steel threaded rod. washers, and nuts for this application. Such materials are readily available from McMaster-Carr and other industrial suppliers. For example, a six-foot length of 5/8-11 all-thread made of 316 stainless steel costs about $82, and shorter lengths are available. McMaster-Carr also sells both round-end and square-end stainless-steel U-bolts. You won't find this stuff at your local hardware store. More info here: www.mcmaster.com 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Wolfe Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 10:59 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: antenna mounting hardware Ron, I've often used All-Thread for U bolts and V bolts, you know, the continuously threaded rod often found at the local hardware store. The all-thread is easily wrapped around a piece of pipe or angle by putting one end into a vise and inserting the other end part way into a short section of 3/4 pipe or conduit and bent into shape around a mandrel. One might need to apply some heat to the rod if the bending angle is really sharp, but I've never had to with the ones I've delt with. The all-thread comes in many sizes and lengths and is easily cut to size with a hacksaw. (Do this only after it is bent to shape and some nuts screwed on before cutting!) The V shaped grooves of the all-thread bite into the tower leg and don't slip. Last year I disassembled an AM broadcast skirt antenna that I installed in 1975 using hardware held together with the all-thead U bolts I made back then. This was on a tower with four inch diameter legs. The tower was rusting from the inside of the legs and needed to be replaced but the 1/2 all-thread was still in perfect shape more than thirty years later. It goes without saying that these bolts need to be kept painted as they are bare steel. I used Rustoleum for this. After the first coat they got repainted every time we had the tower painted. Good luck, Al, K9SI Does anyone know of a source or V-clamps or the like for 5.25 legs??? This has to be hardware that will last 20 years and not hose clamps which I have. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: antenna mounting hardware
Eric, I went to McMaster-Carr and found U-bolts I needed. I tried Tessco and a few others, but they did not have large enough for my needs. McMaster-Carr had some nice ones and just what I needed. I did notice a big price difference in the Stainless-Steel and Hot-Dip Galvanized; 3:1 at the same sites for same item. I am sure for a good reason. I was also in need of a plate for mounting a top mount pipe to the tower. Found nice big one at SitePro1. Even though the pipe is only 1-5/8 the tower leg of 5.25 makes all the hardware expensive. Thanks for the info and site for the U-bolts. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/13 Sun PM 02:29:12 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: antenna mounting hardware Ron, Sure, I would go with galvanized all-thread and other hardware, but only if they were hot-dip galvanized which is the standard for hardware used by electrical utilities. Hot-dip galvanized threaded rod is actually threaded undersize and then galvanized- the zinc coating increases the diameter by a small amount. Ordinary galvanized all-thread rod is the more common version found in some hardware stores and home centers, and has the threading done after galvanizing. Such rods are extremely prone to corrosion cracks in the valleys of the thread, since they are bare metal at that location. Major communications supply houses like Tessco, Talley, and Hutton carry mounting hardware for tower applications. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 11:15 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: antenna mounting hardware Eric, Thanks for the tip on the supplier. I would prefer the galvanized and fixed hardware for this, but might consider the all-threaded stock. Probably half dozen/six of the other. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:wb6fly%40verizon.net Date: 2008/07/13 Sun PM 12:56:00 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: antenna mounting hardware Al and Ron, I would prefer to use stainless steel threaded rod. washers, and nuts for this application. Such materials are readily available from McMaster-Carr and other industrial suppliers. For example, a six-foot length of 5/8-11 all-thread made of 316 stainless steel costs about $82, and shorter lengths are available. McMaster-Carr also sells both round-end and square-end stainless-steel U-bolts. You won't find this stuff at your local hardware store. More info here: www.mcmaster.com 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Al Wolfe Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 10:59 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: antenna mounting hardware Ron, I've often used All-Thread for U bolts and V bolts, you know, the continuously threaded rod often found at the local hardware store. The all-thread is easily wrapped around a piece of pipe or angle by putting one end into a vise and inserting the other end part way into a short section of 3/4 pipe or conduit and bent into shape around a mandrel. One might need to apply some heat to the rod if the bending angle is really sharp, but I've never had to with the ones I've delt with. The all-thread comes in many sizes and lengths and is easily cut to size with a hacksaw. (Do this only after it is bent to shape and some nuts screwed on before cutting!) The V shaped grooves of the all-thread bite into the tower leg and don't slip. Last year I disassembled an AM broadcast skirt antenna that I installed in 1975 using hardware held together with the all-thead U bolts I made back then. This was on a tower with four inch diameter legs. The tower was rusting from the inside of the legs and needed to be replaced but the 1/2 all-thread was still in perfect shape more than thirty years later. It goes without saying that these bolts need to be kept painted as they are bare steel. I used Rustoleum for this. After the first coat they got repainted every time we had the tower painted. Good luck, Al, K9SI Does anyone know of a source or V-clamps or the like for 5.25 legs??? This has to be hardware that will last 20 years and not hose clamps which I have. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ISO Slow Computer for R100 repeater programming
John, It is hard to give away old computers these days, even some that are 3-4 years old. I have about 5 nice CRT type monitors I've offered for coming to get them and no one even responds. I bought a 486 IBM lap top at a Hamfest for $10 that actually worked and had external floppy with it, but some at the same Hamfest went for $100 and a friend of mine bought one of these that did not work. I bought mine just the same purpose you need. For your RSS programming I would recommend a 486. It should be slow enough for this. I also use a desktop 486 for programming Mot HTs. With the club I would get the repeater working and charge them double and maybe something for your time. It is with so many wanting others to do the work, they get the benfits and still complain, but still will not lift a finger. If they will not pay take the repeater and sell on e-bay, hi. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: John Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/13 Sun PM 07:29:39 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] ISO Slow Computer for R100 repeater programming Where does one fine a CHEAP but reliable old computer for this purpose. I understand that if the clock speed is too fast it can turn the machine into an expensive doorstop. I am not seeking the RSS software, just a slow computer with DOS on it to run the software with, I am located in Southeastern Indiana does anyone know where one can be found? A laptop would be the best and I assume one could be mailed, or a desktop in the Cincinnati or southern Indiana area could be picked up. We do not have a lot of money as we have been rebuilding our repeater system and the membership of the club isnt too enthusiastic about contributing till the repeater is fixed ( Catch 22 ) Thanks in advance for you assistance. Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Switching a Repeater Betwen AC Sources
Laryn, Your thinking is good. A simple relay, 3 pole/double throw would do what you want and power the relay coil with your normal AC power. When it goes the relay drops out and connects the repeater to the RED emergency outlet. As someone else suggested switch all 3 wires of hot, neutral and safety ground just to make sure you are not connecting something that you should not. Some suggest runing the repeater on the RED emergency outlet and all else on the normal outlet. You need to check to see if this RED outlet is powered all the time and not just when the gen/emergency power is running. Since it goes to the generator it might not be. Easy to check by plugging a lamp under normal power conditions. The only problems I see is the sudden switching back and forth that might occur quickly serval times in a short period. Like turning on/off the repeater power supply rapidly, but don't think this would be an issue. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Laryn Lohman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/13 Sun PM 08:17:51 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Switching a Repeater Betwen AC Sources We have two repeaters, plus an IRLP computer, on one emergency-fed circuit at a hospital. There are normally no problems with this. During a recent storm, the AC panel circuit breaker tripped, taking everything down in the middle of our Skywarn net. There are two receptacles near our equipment. One is normal power, the other is the red Critical Power receptacle. What problems would anyone see if we would feed everything from the normal power circuit, and if it would ever trip off, switch to the red receptacle. That way, if lightning trips the normal circuit, we would instantly feed our equipment from the red receptacle. This sounds so simple, and I'm inclined to build such a setup, but am I missing something obvious that could cause problems? Any better ideas? Laryn K8TVZ Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
[Repeater-Builder] do you believe this
hi all, This kinda repeater related, but do you believe this: http://www.koreus.com/video/telephone-portable-mais-popcorn.html Popping pop corn with a cel phone video. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Switching a Repeater Betwen AC Sources
RAy, If you read my reply I stated make sure the RED outlets are powered at all times by testing with a simple lamp if you want to use all the time. Different states have different codes for Hospitals so would just have to check. I would think the hospital electrical dept would have to notified to make sure the repeater equipment could be connected to the RED outlet. Many times only certain equipment is allowed to prevent overload and other problems. The relay would work if having to switch between outlets. If the RED outlet is powered at all times then probably best to use if allowed. As for UL as someone else mentioned I assure you there are parts of that Ham repeater that do not have UL. Probably low voltage or current, but there are parts in there, but after things like power supplies that are UL. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Ray Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/13 Sun PM 10:28:21 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Switching a Repeater Betwen AC Sources Sorry, Ron, I disagree with the relay idea. If it's critical that the radio power supply be up all the time, then run it in the emergency circuits, which ARE active all the time. Our main ambulance radio and our maintenance repeater are on emergency power, as I specificied and coordinated the istallation of both of them myself./div div /div div The only switching occurs when the power goes down, all receptacles (both white and red are now dead) then the generators fire up within 15 seconds, stabilize, and transfer the feed of the red receptacles from the outside utility to the generators. Power switches back automatically after utility power has been restored and stays up for at least 5 continuous minutes with no dropouts. Then the generators run on cool-down for at least 10 minutes.BR/div div My CBET rating means I'm certified as a Biomedical Equipment Technician on 6 levels of the proper care and feeding of medical instrumentation, including power supplies. :-) And, Laryn, I re-read your initial statement. You had 2 repeaters AND a computer on the same circuit, and it tripped? Again, what all was on that circuit? If the printer was also on that same circuit, you need to get it off the red and on the white. But even 100 watt repeaters with linear supplies should only draw 4 amps each on full load, plus 4 for the PC and display. Something else is on the circuit. Shame you can't take pictures. Check with the hospital electrician and see what's up. Good luck! Ray Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Laryn, Your thinking is good. A simple relay, 3 pole/double throw would do what you want and power the relay coil with your normal AC power. When it goes the relay drops out and connects the repeater to the RED emergency outlet. As someone else suggested switch all 3 wires of hot, neutral and safety ground just to make sure you are not connecting something that you should not. Some suggest runing the repeater on the RED emergency outlet and all else on the normal outlet. You need to check to see if this RED outlet is powered all the time and not just when the gen/emergency power is running. Since it goes to the generator it might not be. Easy to check by plugging a lamp under normal power conditions. The only problems I see is the sudden switching back and forth that might occur quickly serval times in a short period. Like turning on/off the repeater power supply rapidly, but don't think this would be an issue. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Laryn Lohman Date: 2008/07/13 Sun PM 08:17:51 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Switching a Repeater Betwen AC Sources We have two repeaters, plus an IRLP computer, on one emergency-fed circuit at a hospital. There are normally no problems with this. During a recent storm, the AC panel circuit breaker tripped, taking everything down in the middle of our Skywarn net. There are two receptacles near our equipment. One is normal power, the other is the red Critical Power receptacle. What problems would anyone see if we would feed everything from the normal power circuit, and if it would ever trip off, switch to the red receptacle. That way, if lightning trips the normal circuit, we would instantly feed our equipment from the red receptacle. This sounds so simple, and I'm inclined to build such a setup, but am I missing something obvious that could cause problems? Any better ideas? Laryn K8TVZ Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] looking for an input/output card with serial port and parallel port
As Tony said these are around in many places that supply computer parts. I use www.newegg.com. However, consider, as Tony said a USB to serial adapter. They are reasonably priced and don't require opening the computer..just plug it in. If a lap top then little choice...one of the USB adapters. If however, you do need the printer port then a card might suit you more. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Scott Berry N7ZIB [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/11 Fri PM 10:09:20 EDT To: Repeater Builder Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] looking for an input/output card with serial port and parallel port Hello guys, Does anyone know where I can find an input/output card whichhas a serial port and a parallel port. I am wanting this to program my radios formy repeater. I need the com port or serial port more than anything else. If anyonehas one or knows where to get these please let me know. Scott Berry Email: sberry at northlc.com Ham Call sign: N7ZIB Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Desense
My cable provider here in Tampa area, Verizon, is all digital. It is fiber. The other cable provider, Bright House, is putting in fiber, but still has many analog and digital channels on coax. Understand the FCC has mandated typical coaxial cable keep analog to I think 2012 although they can offer digital on the cable as Bright House does here. Analog is going away for many reasons. I am looking for the digital cable TV...the converter built in just as the TVs did with cable ready analog tuners. This was just more channels so simple. There are a number of digital formats used by the cable companies so would be a chore, but with tech today one chip could proably decode many formats. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/11 Fri PM 08:04:12 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Desense You're right, I think the majority of cable providers will be dumping analog within a few years in order to free up bandwidth for more digital channels. Richardwww.n7tgb.net From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gerald Pelnar Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 4:38 PM To:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Desense - Original Message - From: Dave Gomberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Desense DTV is the new millennium. Those who miss it get to buy cable forever. NE5EE with 39 digital channels over-the-air, most HD. And HDTV for 2 years. Not exactly. Cable here is only going to keep analog for three years after the switch to digital. Gerald Pelnar McPherson, Ks Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: RE: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Desense
John, Even if the transmitter was at 100 W the 38 db loss in the isotee would give only 0.016 watts into the sig gen which believe me would not be a problem. Sure this is a major signal compared to a typical receiver input or sig gen output, but should not be a problem as far as the sig gen handling such on its output. Most crossband couplers have only 30 db isolation, even the expensive commercial ones. Of course the other band signals are far away in freq, but I would not have a problem connecting a sig gen to one of the ports with the other band transmitting. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: John Transue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/11 Fri PM 07:04:01 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Desense I madean isotee today by cutting off the central pin in a F-M-F tee. I measured theattenuation by comparing the power through the tee to the power that escapesfrom the isotee port. With the central pin cut off flush with the dielectricthe attenuation is about 38 dB. With the central pin removed entirely theattenuation is about 71 dB. The sampling port on my Bird can be adjusted fromabout 46 to 51 dB. I am concerned that the transmitter power,as attenuated by the isotee or Bird, will still be high enough to damage thesignal generator. Has anyone had such a problem? Is there a coupler that couldprevent the transmitter power from entering the line to the signal generator? If I use the isotee with the pin removed, thesignal generator can be operated between -36 and -56 dBm to give -107 to -127 dBmat the receiver. For the transmitter power amplifier putting out 60 watts, the71 dB attenuation reduces the signal seen by the signal generator to -23 dBm. Isthis low enough to be of no concern? Ideas and comments? John P.S. The idea proposed by William494 (billb)sounds right, i.e. let the signal generator see a 50-ohm impedance. -Original Message- From:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:04AM To:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re:[Repeater-Builder] Measuring Desense John, The procedure is primarily measuring the site noise in your system, notdesense. It simply measured first the receiver sensitivity then connected theantenna and did the same. For the desense test we are looking to see the noise caused by the repeatertransmitter although site noise can be part of this noise. In step 3 of the test one would key and unkey the transmitter to see thedefferent effects. I think the test suggest the transmitter is keyed at alltimes. Not unkeying/keying the transmitter would give you the noise results,but not tell you if the noise is from the transmitter or some other source. Thetest is effectively telling you the site noise with all connected which isimportant. However, to determine if you have desense from your repeater you need tokey/unkey the tx. Step 1 can be removed for would think you have done this before, know thereceiver sensitivity. Doing the same with the T on the duplexer output with thetx unkeyed would be your starting reference for the receiver, then keying itwould give tx noise level. If you connect all in and do steps 2 3, but keying and unkeying the tx instep 3 is what you want to do for tx desense. We are looking for desense, not site noise in your case. Site noise isimportant, but often one can do little about it for it comes from many sourcesinclusing 100 transmitters within 10 miles of you. 73, ron, n9ee/r The test in the link is a must for repeaters and is a good one. From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/10 Thu AM 03:55:04 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Desense At 12:18 PM 07/09/08, you wrote: ...Ron, Don, Mark, and others, The attachment shows how I think I should connect things tomeasure desense.I would use the Bird with sampling coupler in place ofthe iso tee shown. Doesthis appear to be a correct way to measuredesense? Also, I can replace the feed line and antenna with a dummyload as Ron hasexplained. John AF4PD http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/effectivesens.html Mike WA6ILQ Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. __ NOD32 3192 (20080616) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: antenna mounting hardware
skipp, Thanks, I'll take a look. Gotta get this done. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/12 Sat AM 11:17:04 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: antenna mounting hardware Does anyone know of a source or V-clamps or the like for 5.25 legs??? Sabre, Microflect and probably Radian. You won't like the prices regardless of who sells the parts you need. cheers, s. This has to be hardware that will last 20 years and not hose clamps which I have. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
[Repeater-Builder] antenna mounting hardware
Hi all, I am about to put up a Telewave Super Station Master up over 1000 ft above ground on a large tower. The legs at that level are 5.25 and am in need of hardware for securing the top and bottom mounts to the legs. I have all except the leg mounting hardware. I've looked at Tessco and know they can be expensive, but will pay for it for this install if I have to. Does anyone know of a source or V-clamps or the like for 5.25 legs??? This has to be hardware that will last 20 years and not hose clamps which I have. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] antenna mounting hardware
Dve, I think the problem with hose clamps first they are not made for the type of hardware on a tower, made more for round stuff. Also not nearly as secure as say a V or C clamp...just not as much metal and a few teeth in the worm screw all holding things together. Hose clamps are good for what they are made for, but I am looking for clamps like V-clamps that would mate better to the hardware. thanks for the suggestion. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Dave Gomberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/11 Fri PM 02:30:26 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] antenna mounting hardware At 06:57 7/11/2008, Ron Wright wrote: This has to be hardware that will last 20 years and not hose clamps which I have. Good hose clamps are SS and should last a really long time. Look around any junk yard, how many failed hose clamps do you see? How many like new? Here is a salt-spray environment and they seem to last forever. No lightning tho. Maybe they hate lightning -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html -- Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Desense
John, The procedure is primarily measuring the site noise in your system, not desense. It simply measured first the receiver sensitivity then connected the antenna and did the same. For the desense test we are looking to see the noise caused by the repeater transmitter although site noise can be part of this noise. In step 3 of the test one would key and unkey the transmitter to see the defferent effects. I think the test suggest the transmitter is keyed at all times. Not unkeying/keying the transmitter would give you the noise results, but not tell you if the noise is from the transmitter or some other source. The test is effectively telling you the site noise with all connected which is important. However, to determine if you have desense from your repeater you need to key/unkey the tx. Step 1 can be removed for would think you have done this before, know the receiver sensitivity. Doing the same with the T on the duplexer output with the tx unkeyed would be your starting reference for the receiver, then keying it would give tx noise level. If you connect all in and do steps 2 3, but keying and unkeying the tx in step 3 is what you want to do for tx desense. We are looking for desense, not site noise in your case. Site noise is important, but often one can do little about it for it comes from many sources inclusing 100 transmitters within 10 miles of you. 73, ron, n9ee/r The test in the link is a must for repeaters and is a good one. From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/10 Thu AM 03:55:04 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Desense At 12:18 PM 07/09/08, you wrote: ...Ron, Don, Mark, and others, The attachment shows how I think I should connect things tomeasure desense. I would use the Bird with sampling coupler in place ofthe iso tee shown. Does this appear to be a correct way to measuredesense? Also, I can replace the feed line and antenna with a dummyload as Ron has explained. John AF4PD http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/effectivesens.html Mike WA6ILQ Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Desense
Bob, Yes, I think you could put at receiver and your directional coupler would offer a better match for all including the sig gen and would not have to deal with the tx power. The main thing is to see how any noise would affect the receiver. Ch 2-6 will not go dead in Feb 2007. Some stations will turn off their analog txs and use what they are now using for HDTV probably on UHF, but many will turn off the HDTV and convert their analog VHF, lo and hi, to HDTV on these lower channels. Our ch 3, EDU educational will do this. It is the only local lo VHF. All the high VHF here will convert to HDTV and turn off what is now their UHF HDTV. $1,000,000 being turned off to set. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/10 Thu AM 10:03:26 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Desense At 7/10/2008 00:55, you wrote: At 12:18 PM 07/09/08, you wrote: ... Ron, Don, Mark, and others, The attachment shows how I think I should connect things to measure desense. I would use the Bird with sampling coupler in place of the iso tee shown. Does this appear to be a correct way to measure desense? Also, I can replace the feed line and antenna with a dummy load as Ron has explained. John AF4PD http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/effectivesens.html Mike WA6ILQ Somehow I thought Jeff D. originally wrote this; I stand corrected. I use a 20 dB directional coupler instead of the iso-T, place it in front of the RX instead of in the antenna line. Any reason why this method would be less effective? The coupler's going to have a bit of loss compared to the iso--T, but should be under a dB. Regarding the note at the end of the article: TV 2, 4 5 will go dark at the analog/DTV cutover in Feb. 2009. Ironically, 6 meters may become less noisy on Mt. Wilson than UHF. :( Bob NO6B Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Desense
Bob, One other note on the VHF lo and 6 m. 6 might improve due to the HDTV stations will be able to run considerably lower power. Our Ch 10 on VHF hi will go from 42 kW RF, 216 kW ERP, to avarage 2 kW with 10 kW peak RF. They will also like the electric bill more, hi. Not sure what power levels will be at VHF lo transmitters, but will reduce the affects on 6 m. For me there is only a ch 3 on VHF lo and it is over 50 miles away. Nearest ch 2 is over 80 miles. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/10 Thu AM 10:03:26 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Desense Regarding the note at the end of the article: TV 2, 4 5 will go dark at the analog/DTV cutover in Feb. 2009. Ironically, 6 meters may become less noisy on Mt. Wilson than UHF. :( Bob NO6B Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR REVERSE SENSE
Jim, Bob needs more . (dots), hi. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Jim Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/10 Thu AM 10:58:11 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR REVERSE SENSE Attached is Bob's Inverter in a little more readable format. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Thu, 7/10/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR REVERSE SENSE To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 9:17 AM Damn Yahoo!. I thought Kevin was paying them to remove ads, but I see them at the bottom of messages now. Anyway, this circuit should be readable, although a bit messy with the space-filling periods. If you copy this, paste it into Notepad (make sure it's setup to use a monospaced font) have it convert all periods to spaces, it should look good. Anyone have a circuit diagram to reverse a cor from high to low to low to high? . .V+ . .O . .| . .| . ./ . 4.7K.\ . ./ . .|--- -O.OUTPUT . ./ . ...|/ .33K. ...| .INPUT O---/\/\/\-- -|... 2N . ...|\ . .\ . .| . ...- . --- . .- V+ can be either 5 or 12 V, depending on what output high voltage you need. Bob NO6B Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Desense
I have a few friends that have gotten their top set boxes for HDTV receiving it over the air with antenna and all are so excited about the very noticable quality improvement. If someone is a few miles from a typical TV station and cannot receive it with rabit ears it aint the stations fault. The HDTV will definitely not be running the same power as analog. No reason to. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: wd8chl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/10 Thu PM 05:40:29 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Desense Ron Wright wrote: Bob, One other note on the VHF lo and 6 m. 6 might improve due to the HDTV stations will be able to run considerably lower power. Our Ch 10 on VHF hi will go from 42 kW RF, 216 kW ERP, to avarage 2 kW with 10 kW peak RF. They will also like the electric bill more, hi. Not sure what power levels will be at VHF lo transmitters, but will reduce the affects on 6 m. For me there is only a ch 3 on VHF lo and it is over 50 miles away. Nearest ch 2 is over 80 miles. 73, ron, n9ee/r We have a ch.2 DTV in Cleveland. It is tearing the crap out of 6M for 15-20 miles in all directions. 30-40dB of desense is typical within 15 miles of it. And don't believe what they tell about coverage and being able to use less power. They are using about the same power as their analog on ch 3, and people even as close as 2-3 miles away cannot watch it without a decent outdoor antenna. Rabbit ears or any indoor antenna won't cut it with DTV. And the picture isn't any better to boot-when you can see it... The good news is that the Ch2 will be moving to UHF ch 17 at the cutover. The will leave the lowest ch. here as 8 I think. I live about 30 miles west. I don't expect to be able to see anything watchable over the air, even with a good antenna. Digital pixelation is overwhelming now even for people close in. Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: New Repeater Desense Problems
John, The tee/sampler slug is simply a loosely coupled connection to the coax so one can insert say a generator signal into the coax without dumping the power of the transmitter back into the signal gen. One way to build one is to take a coaxial T connector, remove the center pin of the vertical part (it often unscrews) of the T essentally making it a barral connector with the vertical part of the T open except for a few pf of capacitance between the center of the line and the vertical T output. One can then connect a signal gen to the vertical part of the T while it is in the regualar coax line with power from the tx on/keyed. To do a desense test insert the barral in the antenna line with sig gen connected to the vertical part of the T. First with TX UNKEYED cranks up the sig gen to get a low level say 12 db quieting with some noise at the receiver. This level will be much higher than if connected directly to the receiver. Then key the transmitter and see what happens to the receiver. It will probably show some desense, but very little in a good system. If a lot then crank up the sig gen to get the same rcvr quieting level as without the TX and this tells you how much desense you have. It is the same as having a weak DX station transmit to the repeater with the TX keyed and unkeyed. However, with the sig gen you can get more of an idea of any problem. Also this can be done with a dummy load in the event you suspect an antenna/feedline problem. Any repeater will not only have desense or noise from the tepater transmitter. It will have noise from outside sources so using this with the antenna connected can tell you the system noise. I did not invent it...it was around I am sure decades ago and there are professional built units on the market. A modified T connector is just an inexpensive way to get one. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: John Transue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/09 Wed AM 10:06:35 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: New Repeater Desense Problems So,please, someone tell me, what is an iso tee/sampler slug? How is the equipmenthooked up for the desense test? John -Original Message- From:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of de W5DK Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 11:47PM To:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder]Re: New Repeater Desense Problems I think he was Laryn. I could see anargument that it may not have been aligned and caused the situation. But,, In this case the matching circuitwas installed and set properly, also the duplexers and all were perfect. Thesystem was stable for years then boom, desense. All I was saying was that this stationworked Perfect into a dummy load (zero desense and all to spec) but did notinto feedline(+15db) . So we cringed and focused there. We were getting ready to replace theantenna at 580 ft and spend some money after the dummy load test. Luckily theamp finished failing. What I relayed locally after this experience was that acomplete system that works flawlessly into a dummy load may not be flawless. I do think the majority of desense problemscan be diagnosed with a dummy load and a sampler slug / iso tee. I just wantedto throw a recent experience / monkey wrench into the thread hi. 73 Don W5DK m: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Laryn Lohman Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 8:50PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re:New Repeater Desense Problems --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com,wd8chl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It sounds to me like the PA wasn't aligned properly. Or the duplexer is not aligned properly. Most, but not all, MastrII PA's have an output filter section that is tricky to align correctly. Are you referring to the Z matching adjustments on continuous-duty amps? Laryn K8TVZ __ NOD32 3192 (20080616) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR REVERSE SENSE
Bob, You found out as I have that yahoo takes lots out like spaces and messes things up. Guess the price we have to pay for a free service. I once did a antenna tuner doc to show what happens to the power based on feedline losses, but yahoo took out the spaces and trashed it to the point I had trouble deciphering it. Making a hand drawn diagram and scanning is good, but cannot send attachments thru the board. Have to send directly. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/09 Wed AM 11:54:56 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR REVERSE SENSE First try at ASCII graphics didn't look so good; trying again: Anyone have a circuit diagram to reverse a cor from high to low to low to high? . V+ . O . | . | . / .4.7K \ . / . |O OUTPUT . / . |/ .33K| .INPUT O---/\/\/\---| 2N . |\ . \ . | . - .--- . - V+ can be either 5 or 12 V, depending on what output high voltage you need. Bob NO6B Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR REVERSE SENSE
Chris, Bob tried with a diagram and it did not come thru. Another reply gave excellent web site for simple transistor circuits. I'll try: Using an NPN such as 2N3904 or 2N 1. ground emitter 2. from collector connect 4.7k res to +voltage (5, 12, etc) 3. connect 20k res to base and other end of 20k use as COR/COS input. The inverted output will be off the collector where the 4.7k and collector connect. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: chris_campton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/09 Wed AM 10:04:09 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] COR REVERSE SENSE Anyone have a circuit diagram to reverse a cor from high to low to low to high? Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] New Repeater Desense Problems
Bill, In finding desense first one must locate the problem. A given. I would start with putting GOOD dummy load on the duplexer output and do a desense test. This can be done with a local signal gen where you can vary the gen output and keying and unkey the transmitter. You should see no difference in the received signal with tx keyed or unkeyed. If you do then the desense is in the repeater. Next do the same test with the dummy load on the transmtter only. This will test for the desense being inside or outside the radio part of the repeater. I would look at your LMR400 and antenna. I think the LMR400 is a double shielded cable with different metals for the 2 shields. This is a no no in duplexed system. It generates noise. It has been discussed here on this board many many times and for good reason. If this is a problem replace with a good heliax. It is worth the cost. This is a start. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Bill Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/06 Sun PM 10:24:30 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] New Repeater Desense Problems Greetings Group, I had hoped to be able to purchase off-the-shelf components for a 2 meter repeater for our local club to use. I purchased a Maggoire HiPro R1VHF35, 35 watt version, and with their recommendation a set of FiPlex DVN-1533L Duplexers (6 cans). These were installed with LMR-400 cabling and a 50 foot run to a Diamond X- 50 Dual Band vertical installed about 40 feet above ground. We have a good ground, and the equipment is mounted in an open rack. The controller is a CAT-250, currently with COR receive only, although the CTCSS module is installed but not turned on at this time. I have been told however that the PL is being transmitted on the transmit signal for decode. I also had the Narrow Band IF Filter installed. Ever since we first hooked everything up, we have had receive desense problems. The cans have been retuned 3 times by two different radio shops in the area, and the problem still exists. With the exception of the duplexer and repeater itself, every other component in the system has been swapped out at least once. One observation by the first radio tech (ham) that came out was the very sensitive receiver on the order of 0.10 uv, versus the 0.20 uv as advertised. On the third tune-up of the duplexers, they discovered that the loops were 180 degrees out of phase, and when they turned them, the duplexers came right in. However, the problem persists. Great for in town use, but that's about it. We have used varied lengths of cables between the repeater and the duplexers, without any significant change in results. Next weekend, I am planning on looking at the tuning myself with borrowed test equipment. I know what I'm looking for pretty much, and it's got to be close to correct to work as it does. Any thoughts ideas, etc., would be appreciated. Bill KJ4EX Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MSR 2000
Dave, The MSR2000 VHF was made for 2 freq bands, 132-150.8 and 146-174. So both segments can be used in the 146-148 2 meter band. However, the PAs were made for 3 bands, 132-150.8, 150.8-160 and 160-174. If your unit is on 160-174 the PA will probably not move down to 146. However, if repeater is in 150-160 range the PA should still work with degraded performance; 90%. The MSR2000 was a mix of the Micor and Mitrek (a smaller trunk mount radio). The exciter and receiver were seperated and the Micor PA painted a different color. All was given a new package. They do make an excellent repeater. They have very quite and clean transmitters. The GE Mastr line is also an excellent product and uses the same technology as the MSR2000. The MSR2000 that is new would mean it would have a longer life. However, most used I've seen are clean and have years left. This is a factor when putting on a repeater. The commercial guys don't like the older stuff due to this. The MSR2000 will perform about the same as the Mastr IIs, so if the GE is working don't fix it. However, it can be fun to work with finnneee gear as the MSR2000 is. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: N0ATH [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/08 Tue PM 03:48:35 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSR 2000 Hello Gentlemen; I recently acquired a pair of MSR 2000 100 wattrepeaters that are on 160 mhz. I am not very well acquainted with the Motorola gear although everyone assures me they are far superior to the Mastr II gear I am presently using - My question is, can the 160 mhz units be moved to 146 with out a lot of trouble or at all? These are operational units, one isnew and one used - If they cannot handily be movedto the amateur freq then are they of very much valueor I guess I should ask, is there any demand for them?Thanks / NØATH Dave Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
Bruce,
Probably should kill this topic for it has radiacally changed from orginal
posting and not really repeater related although AC power is a concern for
about any repeater builder.
I think one reason for separate wiring to each outlet is the way so many are
wired using the little spring loaded connections that require only stripping
the wire and inserting...do not use the screw terminals that most all have.
Over time the spring tention weakens producing a poor connection at one outlet
that can lead to a high resistance and heat. Having multiple outlets on one
string of wiring can amplify this situation.
I don't like the strip and insert connections and think they sould no be
allowed. Whenever I replace/repair an outlet I cut the wire and connect to the
screws.
I am sure there are other reasons for separate wiring to each outlet. The
electric code has many not so obvious reasons for what they do mainly from
experience.
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: Bruce Bagwell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/06 Sun PM 09:08:33 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
I figured that was A local code, not NEC. The only reason I can think of for
that requirement is the ampacity of the 12 or 14 ga wires. While we all know,
in actual use, 2 or more outlets strung along will not all have 15 amp or
higher loads in EACH outlet. However, theoretically, each outlet could have A
20 amp load plugged into it.That is probably why some pencil pusher decided
each outlet needs its own wire. (Never mind the fact the breaker would trip
regardless of what is plugged into each outlet or the number of wires leading
to said outlets, but that's another crazy thread) As for the Breaker Box, I
would assume each also has its own breaker. Trying to stuff more than one wire
into A breaker would more fun than I care to have. BruceKE5TPN
Dave,
This is a code requirement here in my county and think all of Florida.
The code requirements for building is a county/state issue and vary. Most use
the NEC code. Many have additional codes such as having wind resistance
building. The way homes are constructed in the north would not be allowed in
Florida mainly due to the wind. This is why we see so much concrete block
construction with lots of requirements for attaching to foundation and roof
securing. Just different part of the US.
Same with electric code. For various reasons some additional changes are often
made. Just because you have a code in your area does not mean it is in all of
US. It is county mostly with some state codes. In my county there were NO
building codes until the 70s. Can you believe this.
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/06 Sun AM 11:43:50 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due
toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
Where is the requirement for running a separate feed to EACH OUTLET
REQUIRED? Not in the US A dedicated out is required for certain
special situations but not for each outlet elsewhere. There are certain
other requirements such as GFCI and AFCI. But, certainly no dedicated
feeder for each out.
Ron Wright wrote:
Gary,
I've noticed in panels the safety ground and neutral go to a different buss
bar. I had thought maybe because the neutral was sometimes, not now to
code, smaller than the neutral. However, both got connected to the panel
case. One can Ohm out neutral to safety and only see the resistance in the
wiring to/from the panel. However, as you well know, should not be
considered the same.
In most plastic coated wireing I see today the safety wire is green coated,
but some is still bare as you said. I've seen lots of this.
Now in our county following NEC code the safety wire has to be same size as
neutral . No more of the 14-2 w/G cable, but 14-3 one being safety ground
color or bare. Also they are doing something different, a separate set of
wires must be ran between panel and each outlet...no more of one wire to
one outlet and then from here to another outlet, etc. Can you imagine the
extra cost and labor. Not sure what they do at the breaker panel...put in
separate breaker for each outlet. Not sure if this NEC code or something to
do with the hurricane code we have here in Florida. We do lots of
construction very different here, hi.
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: Gary Glaenzer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/06 Sun AM 10:19:49 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
I don't know what part of the US you live in, but around here (western IL)
the grounding conductor ('safety ground') is bare in Romex-type cable, and
may or may not be insulated in conduit, and usually one size smaller than
the 'main'conductors.
Also, the GC goes
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
Gary, I got this info from a local licensed electrican who does a lot of home construction. He was not happy either. My wife owning a hair salon also has seen a number of required changes in your shop. I do not thing there is a breaker for each outlet, but more than one outlet wired to multiple outlets to a single breaker. I had wondered about this since I spoke with the electrician. There are lots of building requirements for homes now in our area that are not standard in most of the US. We have to use concrete block construction, in the past of over 10 years ago one simple layed the blocks. Now in all blocks vertical channels a steel rod must be inserted and connected to the foundation and the hole filled with concrete. A few years ago only a few of these were required, but now all on the outer wall must be. Since huricane Andrew where they found many stick/2x4 built homes that got so easily blown away and the other hurricanes in recent years many building changes have been mandated. Many problems occured due to electical problems causing fires and other hazards and many changes have been made. My home built in 1988 would not even come close to code today. We now cannot use 14-2 w/g wire. It is 14-3 or larger. All breaker boxes must be assible from the outside. Had a friend who was updating his box and found it had to go outside. Definitly increased the cost. There are many many codes not national that must be followed. And for good reason. Would not expect to have all to have to build for high wind in say Chicago. They don't get too many hurricanes up theres. They do get tornados, hi. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Gary Glaenzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/07 Mon AM 08:36:19 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Ron; That requirement (if it is correct) is NOT part of the NEC It would be a local thing, and quite frankly, I feel the original poster of that info may have incorrect information It would, among other things, limit a home to (42 - circuits used for other than outlets) receptacles, there being only 42 circuit breaker spaces in a 200-amp panel Gary - Original Message - From: Ron Wright To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:15 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies I am sure there are other reasons for separate wiring to each outlet. The electric code has many not so obvious reasons for what they do mainly from experience. 73, ron, n9ee/r : 7/6/2008 5:26 AM Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] rf power modules
Seems RF components are high in price compared to the rest of the electronic world. I have found RF Parts to have competive pricing and often much better than over the counter local pricing. RF Parts is one source for the typical Ham and do recommend them. This of course when wanting 1 or 2 components. Now if you want 100s that is another issue. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: JQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/05 Sat AM 10:03:34 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] rf power modules I am in need of a M67746 power module. anyone know of suppliers to check with. I have found them at RF Parts, but just want to check around before I shell out the big bucks. Thanks, KE4PMP Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] china made radios
I also purchased 2 of the HTs, one for VHF and one for UHF. I chose the FDC units at $59.50 shipping included although there are others. The VHF covers 130-174 xmt and rcv. The UHF covers 400-474 xmt and rcv. Both are keyboard programmable, have 99 memories and come with a desk top charger that can charge battery attached or detached from the HT and runs on 110-240 VAC. A spare batter is $11.50. They have CTCSS and DCS and except for not having a DTMF pad they have lots of usable features. They will also do repeater offset programmable up to 10 MHz. I am not sure if they will do 12.5 or 6.25 kHz tuning. The manual, same for VHF and UHF, is in English and think Japanese and is about 15 pages each. The manual explains little about what does what, only how to setup to do whatever. Tells you how to prog CTCSS tone, but has little info on what CTCSS is. Same with rest of features. One can see these HTs at www.radiogearpro.com. The cost includes shipping. I use these on the Ham Bands, but another reason was for ARES/RACES/ACS operation. In a disaster one will need to talk with other agencies, even the power company. These can be setup in the field for this. As Hams we can operate these rigs. However, they are not type accepted for the US and think use in commercial can be a problem even GMRS or MURS. The largest market for these rigs are the mom and pop businesses needing some sort of HT comm. I am not sure what customs would do with these if they knew of the non-type acceptance. Might be a problem, but mine came thru with no problem. Takes about 10 days for coming from far east, think China or Tiwan. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: safemale1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/06 Sun AM 03:39:33 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] china made radios i have a ht that was made in china and sold in tiwone spelling? it was/is 60 shiped 136-174 mhz 5 watt the worst part in the man. butt for the price i love it lots more radio for the buck 1/2 the price of a yasue sorry for the offtopic i will shut my mouth At 08:15 PM 7/5/2008, you wrote: Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: Re: [Repeater-Buil der] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toEle ctrocution and Fire Hazards
Gary,
I've noticed in panels the safety ground and neutral go to a different buss
bar. I had thought maybe because the neutral was sometimes, not now to code,
smaller than the neutral. However, both got connected to the panel case. One
can Ohm out neutral to safety and only see the resistance in the wiring to/from
the panel. However, as you well know, should not be considered the same.
In most plastic coated wireing I see today the safety wire is green coated, but
some is still bare as you said. I've seen lots of this.
Now in our county following NEC code the safety wire has to be same size as
neutral . No more of the 14-2 w/G cable, but 14-3 one being safety ground color
or bare. Also they are doing something different, a separate set of wires
must be ran between panel and each outlet...no more of one wire to one outlet
and then from here to another outlet, etc. Can you imagine the extra cost and
labor. Not sure what they do at the breaker panel...put in separate breaker
for each outlet. Not sure if this NEC code or something to do with the
hurricane code we have here in Florida. We do lots of construction very
different here, hi.
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: Gary Glaenzer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/06 Sun AM 10:19:49 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due
toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
I don't know what part of the US you live in, but around here (western IL)
the grounding conductor ('safety ground') is bare in Romex-type cable, and
may or may not be insulated in conduit, and usually one size smaller than
the 'main' conductors.
Also, the GC goes to one bus-bar, the neutral to another, the GC bus-bar is
bonded ot the neutral at the SERVICE panel (incoming power, the one with the
'Main' braker that shuts off all power), but is kept separate in all
sub-panels, and from the sub-panel(s) there must be a separate GC (coded
green) run back to the GC bus-bar in the service panel.
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder ] Re: RadioShack Recalls P ower Supplies Due toElec trocution and Fire Hazards
Dave,
This is a code requirement here in my county and think all of Florida.
The code requirements for building is a county/state issue and vary. Most use
the NEC code. Many have additional codes such as having wind resistance
building. The way homes are constructed in the north would not be allowed in
Florida mainly due to the wind. This is why we see so much concrete block
construction with lots of requirements for attaching to foundation and roof
securing. Just different part of the US.
Same with electric code. For various reasons some additional changes are often
made. Just because you have a code in your area does not mean it is in all of
US. It is county mostly with some state codes. In my county there were NO
building codes until the 70s. Can you believe this.
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/06 Sun AM 11:43:50 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due
toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
Where is the requirement for running a separate feed to EACH OUTLET
REQUIRED? Not in the US A dedicated out is required for certain
special situations but not for each outlet elsewhere. There are certain
other requirements such as GFCI and AFCI. But, certainly no dedicated
feeder for each out.
Ron Wright wrote:
Gary,
I've noticed in panels the safety ground and neutral go to a different buss
bar. I had thought maybe because the neutral was sometimes, not now to
code, smaller than the neutral. However, both got connected to the panel
case. One can Ohm out neutral to safety and only see the resistance in the
wiring to/from the panel. However, as you well know, should not be
considered the same.
In most plastic coated wireing I see today the safety wire is green coated,
but some is still bare as you said. I've seen lots of this.
Now in our county following NEC code the safety wire has to be same size as
neutral . No more of the 14-2 w/G cable, but 14-3 one being safety ground
color or bare. Also they are doing something different, a separate set of
wires must be ran between panel and each outlet...no more of one wire to one
outlet and then from here to another outlet, etc. Can you imagine the extra
cost and labor. Not sure what they do at the breaker panel...put in
separate breaker for each outlet. Not sure if this NEC code or something to
do with the hurricane code we have here in Florida. We do lots of
construction very different here, hi.
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: Gary Glaenzer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/06 Sun AM 10:19:49 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
I don't know what part of the US you live in, but around here (western IL)
the grounding conductor ('safety ground') is bare in Romex-type cable, and
may or may not be insulated in conduit, and usually one size smaller than
the 'main' conductors.
Also, the GC goes to one bus-bar, the neutral to another, the GC bus-bar is
bonded ot the neutral at the SERVICE panel (incoming power, the one with the
'Main' braker that shuts off all power), but is kept separate in all
sub-panels, and from the sub-panel(s) there must be a separate GC (coded
green) run back to the GC bus-bar in the service panel.
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder ] Re: RadioShack Recalls P ower Supplies Due toElec trocution and Fire Hazards
I believe RS has to take the supply back and rewire or fix it. It sounds like an easy thing to do...just reverse the neutral and safety ground as the plug enters the supply. If I had a number of these I would take back to RS and have them do it. They should put a label on it stating the mod had been done. I wonder if there are any charges such as return shipping charges. Although one can say if your outlet is wire correctly there would not be a problem. This is true, but with the millions of outlets in the world and maybe one in your own home you have not yet tried with the RS supply I would definitly want it wired correctly. I wonder how this happened. I am sure the supply is UL listed (no such thing as US approved) so looks like something got over looked or a change occured at RS manufacturing. In the US the safety ground and neutral both go back to the same place in the power panel (fuse box). Most of the time both are insulated with different color wires and often the neutral is a size larger wire (not allowed with new code), but with the RS supply this wire size would not be a problem. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Gary Glaenzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/05 Sat AM 08:21:43 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards I must have a half-dozen of these http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide05-08.html true, they will NOT show ground/neutral reversal, but if your panel is wired correctly, that's a non-issue - Original Message - From: Thomas OliverTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSent: Friday, July 04, 2008 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards The inspector I used checked every outlet in the house, found one in the garage that had line neutral reversed. It is tagged as such, is now only used with fully insulated loads such as Christmas lights. Bob NO6B My brother lived in a house with two wire plugs he changed to three wire plugs. He just jumpered the neutral and ground together on the plugs. It fooled the inspector with the little plug in light up gizmo. I highly recomend one of these to anyone working around electricity. http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Fluke+VoltAlert.htm?catalog_name=FlukeUnit edStates Best $20.00 I spent. tom n8ie No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.135 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1533 - Release Date: 7/3/2008 7:19 PM Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder ] Re: RadioShack Recalls P ower Supplies Due toElec trocution and Fire Hazards
The cheap outlet checkers will detect reversal of the hot and neutral, but cannot detect reverse of the neutral and safety ground due to they both connect to the same point in the power panel. The checkers will detect if no safety ground is present. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Bruce Bagwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/05 Sat AM 02:39:50 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards There are many makes of voltage sensing sticks one can get basically anywhere. Many times I have seen outlets Converted to 3 wire from two, only to find all they did was ground from the neutral wire. That means I get all kinds of RFI and if the Ground ever dropped, it would be HOT just from the return from the light bulb or whatever. BTW, those cheap Testers will NOT detect HOT/Ground/Neutral Reverse! If in doubt, run a wire from a known ground to your Meter and find what wires are Hot I remember A house I rented, every time I touched the light switch/outlet in the garage I got tickledGlad I knew what was going on or else I might have made full contact, and I would not be typing this right now!Swapped the HOT/Neutral/Ground and all was OK! Always remember, just because the outlet is Grounded does not mean it is really Grounded Verify! Stay safe out there! Bruce Bagwell KE5TPN If You Can Read This, Thank A Teacher. If You Are Reading This in ENGLISH, Thank A Veteran or Current Soldier! Support Our Troops! For Without Them, We Have No Support at All! The inspector I used checked every outlet in the house, found one in the garage that had line neutral reversed. It is tagged as such, is now only used with fully insulated loads such as Christmas lights. Bob NO6B My brother lived in a house with two wire plugs he changed to three wire plugs. He just jumpered the neutral and ground together on the plugs. It fooled the inspector with the little plug in light up gizmo. I highly recomend one of these to anyone working around electricity. http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Fluke+VoltAlert.htm?catalog_name=FlukeUnit edStates Best $20.00 I spent. tom n8ie Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder ] Re: RadioShack Recalls P ower Supplies Due to Elec trocution and Fire Hazards
The black wire is the hot and don't think this is the problem. The neutral and safety grounds are reversed from what I have read. Reversing these will solve the problem. Don't mess with the black or hot wire. If it is wrong then you had better have RS do the mod. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Gary Glaenzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/04 Fri PM 07:02:21 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due to Electrocution and Fire Hazards Wouldn't it be a lot better and safer to just shut off the power, pull it out of the box, and reverse the white and black wires, and have it right ? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSent: Friday, July 04, 2008 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due to Electrocution and Fire Hazards At 7/4/2008 15:21, you wrote: OT (sorta)...there is the possibility that the unit may be plugged into an improperly-wired receptacle- which happens often when do-it-yourselfers change out a receptacle. Just a heads-up on the assumption that a professionally wired home is safe. When I bought the house I'm living in now, one of the selling points was that the old knob-and-tube wiring had been replaced with new Romax and a new 125 amp breaker panel (by a professional electrician). All of the outlets were the 3-wire type so I ASS-UMED that all was well and good. The house even passed a buyer's inspection as part of the sale. Well, things were not all as they appeared. After getting The inspector I used checked every outlet in the house, found one in the garage that had line neutral reversed. It is tagged as such, is now only used with fully insulated loads such as Christmas lights. Bob NO6B No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.135 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1533 - Release Date: 7/3/2008 7:19 PM Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due to Electr ocution and Fire Hazards
Yep fix it. Simple thing to do after you turn off the breaker feeding it. No way would I want any outlet with reversed wiring. Will eventually bight you and could be deadly bight. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Jack Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/04 Fri PM 07:00:02 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due to Electrocution and Fire Hazards Why don't you fix it? Just curious. We ran into a similar situation in a home we moved into three years ago. Happy 4th! --- On Fri, 7/4/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due to Electrocution and Fire Hazards To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 3:52 PM At 7/4/2008 15:21, you wrote: OT (sorta).. .there is the possibility that the unit may be plugged into an improperly-wired receptacle- which happens often when do-it-yourselfers change out a receptacle. Just a heads-up on the assumption that a professionally wired home is safe. When I bought the house I'm living in now, one of the selling points was that the old knob-and-tube wiring had been replaced with new Romax and a new 125 amp breaker panel (by a professional electrician) . All of the outlets were the 3-wire type so I ASS-UMED that all was well and good. The house even passed a buyer's inspection as part of the sale. Well, things were not all as they appeared. After getting The inspector I used checked every outlet in the house, found one in the garage that had line neutral reversed. It is tagged as such, is now only used with fully insulated loads such as Christmas lights. Bob NO6B Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: RE: Re: [Repeater-Bui lder] Re: RadioShack Recall s Power Supplies Due toEle ctrocution and Fire Hazards
Eric, Yes having UL or any other on one part would not mean all is UL or CSA or any of the other certifications. I would think this would be a violation, but guess not since the UL is on the piece that is UL listed or registered. Most people don't realize that UL is not a gov certification...UL was, I think still is, a private business that has gotten the seal of approval of many gov and other agencies. Most gov require it for equipment in businesses. It is a good safety issue and looks good in court. Also having UL does not mean the equip works or meets specs except for the safety and manufacturing spec of UL. The equip could not work at all and be junk, but pass UL. UL is primarily certifying the equipment meets UL safety specs...you will not get hurt if used properly (don't open the box and stick you tonge to the solder joints). I've been thru one UL certification and it was a joke in a way. They did do good engineering and done to their spec. Only problem we ran into was a fan was not UL so they wanted to test it to make sure it would not cause a fire hazard if say someone put a screw driver in its blades. We just replaced the fan with one that was UL. As for the colors most of the certification agencies have cross colors such as the green w/yellow strip required by other countries. UL will accept this as the safety ground. The other colors can also be used in this manner. One sees so many power supplies that have all kinds of certifications so they can be sold in many countries. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/05 Sat AM 10:53:59 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards Ron, Many people see a UL tag on the power cord and ASSUME that the equipment is UL-listed as well. Bad assumption! There are a gazillion products coming out of Asia that are equipped with UL-listed cord sets, but the equipment itself might be junk and not qualify for listing. Some imported equipment may have counterfeit UL labels; a genuine UL label has a holographic feature that is difficult to forge. In any case, UL only inspects the design of the product and periodic samples; when units are manually assembled by cheap labor, it is easy for mistakes to occur during manufacture. Incidentally, UL (Underwriter's Laboratories) is not the only NRTL (Nationally-Recognized Testing Laboratory); there are a number of Listing Marks that are acceptable in the United States, and UL is just one of them. Part of the wiring problem may be due to differences in color-coding of the power cord wires. In the United States, the standard color code for 120 VAC cords is: Black for hot, White for neutral (grounded conductor), and Green for the equipment grounding conductor. International cord sets use a different color code: Brown for hot (think warm color), Blue for neutral (think cold color), and yellow/green for the equipment grounding conductor. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 6:21 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards snip I wonder how this happened. I am sure the supply is UL listed (no such thing as US approved) so looks like something got over looked or a change occured at RS manufacturing. In the US the safety ground and neutral both go back to the same place in the power panel (fuse box). Most of the time both are insulated with different color wires and often the neutral is a size larger wire (not allowed with new code), but with the RS supply this wire size would not be a problem. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Gary Glaenzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:glaenzer%40verizon.net Date: 2008/07/05 Sat AM 08:21:43 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards I must have a half-dozen of these http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide05-08.html http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide05-08.html true, they will NOT show ground/neutral reversal, but if your panel is wired correctly, that's a non-issue- Original Message - From: Thomas Oliver To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards The inspector I used checked every outlet in the house, found one in the garage that had line neutral reversed. It is tagged as such, is now only used with fully insulated loads such as Christmas lights. Bob NO6B My brother lived in a house with two wire plugs he changed
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] TKR 820
Jack, One thing to look at on the TKR820. The COS might require a pullup resistor to make it go high. Often they are open collector that just pull to ground and let float when wanting to go high. If a pullup is needed probably a 4.7k will do. To check this measure the COS with voltmeter to make sure it is swinging high and low. High would probably be 5 or more volts and low less than 0.5 volts. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/04 Fri AM 08:44:51 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] TKR 820 does anyone have a controller model they can share as I have been working with a nhrc controller and don't seem to be able to get it to key the repeater. also using rus instead of cor, didn't see a cor signal on this repeater ?suggestions welcome...N9exJack In a message dated 7/4/2008 3:52:35 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 04:29 PM 07/03/08, you wrote: Hi Guys does anyone out there happen to have a pinout on the accesory connecter on the back of the machine N9ex Google is your friend And the www.repeater-builder.com web site is as well http://www.repeater-builder.com/kenwood/tkr-n20-notes.html Mike WA6ILQ Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] RELM SMUxx Link Radio?
Dave, I've done a number of radios for making links. Usually commercial rigs bring out COS on a connector for they are often used in other applications such as remoted bases, etc. Having the docs is a must. On Ham rigs COS is very seldom brought out. I've dug inside to find. It is there with any rig that has a squelch and is most often the audio on/off switch of the squelch circuit. I find a scope is most helpful with this. The point is it is there, but sometimes one has to dig for it. Sorry I cannot help with docs for the Relm rigs. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: dakaratcaptivereefing [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/01 Tue PM 01:42:03 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] RELM SMUxx Link Radio? I've recently been tasked to link a couple of VHF repeaters with a UHF link.. not too difficult, however the link radio's provided are Relm SMU's, they are all programmed and ready to go. I'm just having trouble finding any good docs on locations to tap for Rcv/Tx audio and maybe COS in these radios. On the plus side, I've bought an extra controller for myself and have an extra mobile rig of the same model to experiment with before tackling the repeaters... might as well make a mobile remote base for my RV to play with while out fishing etc... Can anyone recommend a good starting point or some docs? Even better I like pics :) Thanks Dave - N0TRQ Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GMRS and P25 Question
Steve, The only reference I can find is 95.29(f)(1) that states the GMRS transmissions must be voice type, but no reference yes or no to analog vs digital. I find no place does it state one can only use 16F3 analog, but still it must be voice. The only catch is are your P25 radios type accepted for GMRS. I am sure the rigs say 450-474 MHz, but this does not always mean type accepted for some services. One case was using a Micor in the Marine freq. The VHF Micor did not meet freq tol then (not sure about now for there are lots of $100 boat rigs on the market). I think the hang up was Micors could run 110 W and there was a limit of 50 W on Marine band. I am sure your P25 rigs will meet all GMRS specs, not hard to do when a typical Radio Shack GMRS radio cost $40 new, hi, but might be a problem. Not sure. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/02 Wed AM 01:35:38 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] GMRS and P25 Question I have a question if someone might be able to awnser it grate . I am getting ready to Setup a GMRS Repeater . However the Repeater that I would be using is a P25 Digital / Analog Repeater . I was wondering if P25 Astro Digital Can be Used on the GMRS Band ? I have called the FCC About my Question and with no Awnser to my Question . Anyone on the Group have any Ideas ? There is nothing in the Rules for GMRS About P25 Digital Voice . Let me know , Thanks . Steve . Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] FS-MSR2000 VHF Exciters
Tom, I wish I knew about the receiver, hi. I would like one myself for spare. Just bought on e-bay a UHF exciter and receiver with card cage for $50. I want to try to put UHF receiver in VHF extra rcvr slot for control. Don't know if it will accept it. Will find out. Usually only 2 things can go wrong with PayPal itself...wrong user account (let you discuss this with Gerry) and some methods of payment might take 3-4 days. PayPal makes sure they get the money before they give it to the receiver. Not sure how Gerry could mess this up. I am sure it will work out. Gerry sent the exciters out to me before I paid so he is good at his word. On e-bay someone has had listed a MSR2000 receiver for $150, also exciter for $150. Kinda hard to get when common price for complete 100 W continous duty MSR2000 with PA and power supply goes for $300-400. Guess seller is looking at the Motorola price book, hi. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Tom Manning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/01 Tue PM 10:43:16 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] FS-MSR2000 VHF Exciters Ron I contacted Gerry off list and he advised the two exciters were sold but he had another exciter and receiver. I told him I would be happy to take those. He gave me a price and paypal account which was in error. I paid that paypal account and he has not gotten any money. I don't know what the outcome of this will be. From my perspective he made the mistake. I was unable to do anything aabout it with paypal. The outcome will be interesting. 73 de Tom MAnning, AF4UG - Original Message - From: Ron WrightTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:33 AM Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] FS-MSR2000 VHF Exciters Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] FS-MSR2000 VHF Exciters
Tom, Did you contact Gerry off list about these exciters as he requested??? I sent Gerry $55 via PayPal yesterday for these exciters after contacting him off list and he and I making the agreement. Hope he did not sell them twice, hi. I am sure Gerry will let us know. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Tom Manning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/30 Mon PM 09:53:00 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] FS-MSR2000 VHF Exciters Hello Gerry I am having problems with your address and get the mail returned. I have in the last hour sent you a paypal for $55. Pls send me a return message when you find it credited to your account. I am not used to sending a paypal payment. My ship to address is Tom Manning, AF4UG 4349 Barclay Pl Pace, Fl 32571-2203 73 de Tom Manning - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 3:19 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] FS-MSR2000 VHF Exciters (1) VHF Motorola MSR2000 Exciter with one channel element (T153.635). Part # TLD9242C for repeater. $25.00 (1) VHF Motorola MSR2000 Exciter with one channel element (T153.695). Part # TLD9232B for base station. $25.00 Plus shipping from 60134 (Chicago area) Contact me off list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Gerry Swanson N9MEP Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 734 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tower lighting on 200 foot tower - maybe off topic
the tower, a new Aeronautical Study may be warranted. The important document you should read is FAA Advisory Circular 70/7460-1K, available here: http://tinyurl.com/2ogwe4 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Waltman Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:04 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Tower lighting on 200 foot tower - maybe off topic To all, I know that a 200' tower requires lighting, however my question concerns the tower having been abandoned for some years, maybe 10 or so, without lights or power to the site. If assuming the lease on this site (from the state)is there any particular rules that apply under this circumstance? In order to get around the tower lighting requirement, then, would it be more prudent to remove 10 or 20 feet of tower and not then have to worry about. On the other hand I seldom ever recall the light ever being on, even when it should have been working, and this over 30 years or so. Thanks, Steve KB3FPN Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Freq uency Change do I retune duplexer?
Bob, I think most aggree with you. Even at 2 m and UHF no retuning required for less than 50 kHz move. If had chance to retune only would do so to just verify duplexer...like checking antenna, we do at times even though it is working, hi, but don't go to too much trouble. Now for LB/6m maybe. I am not familiar with these. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/29 Sun PM 12:19:27 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Frequency Change do I retune duplexer? At 6/28/2008 23:30, you wrote: need to be re-tuned? Depends on who you are, where the equipment is, what type of duplexers you have and how they are set up. I can make a strong case for both yea or nay. One of the larger players in the choice to to re-adjust is the Q of the duplexer cavities. Some of the really high-Q large diameter bottles have some fairly sharp F-center band pass and reject points when they're cranked (adjusted) up for high performance applications. I'm going to disagree here. Gary said he's only moving 12.5 kHz, I've never seen any coaxial resonator in common use (that means VHFLB cavities being used @ UHF don't count) that has enough Q that 12.5 kHz is going to make a significant difference. I say don't bother having the duplexer retuned unless you think it would need retuning without any frequency change. Bob NO6B Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] LBI for 19C320523G2 and 19C328763G1 Sorry for the Attach file
When I first saw your posting I thought you were talking about ICOMs with the G1 and G2 in the part number. I might be able to help, but I was not going to dig thru the manuals to see. When asking for parts just listing the LBI numbers excites few. I have trouble digging out GE manuals to find one. If we knew the name of the board/component and what it goes in would give some a hint as to where to look, hi. I am sure some very familar with GE stuff knew off the top of their butt, but most of us are just tinkers, hi. I think a previous posting stated this was an MII IF/Det board. Not sure. Just info for future postings. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Camilo So [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/27 Fri AM 12:25:00 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] LBI for 19C320523G2 and 19C328763G1 Sorry for the Attach file So sorry its in the back side of PCB. 73W4CSO - Original Message - From: Eric LemmonTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:13 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] LBI for 19C320523G2 and 19C328763G1 Milo, The number 19C328763G1 does not appear in the GE microfiche index as an end item, so I suspect that the number is actually the part number of the PC board itself. Was this number etched into the copper, or was it stamped in black ink? The number falls into the range of numbers used as audio processor cards in the Marc V interconnect terminal. Please check the number carefully to ensure you copied all of the digits correctly. I wonder if the 6 is actually a 2 or an 8. Is the 19C328763G1 card actually installed in a Mastr II station? If so, what is its combination number? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Camilo So Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 2:07 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] LBI for 19C320523G2 and 19C328763G1 Thank you Gary, The 19C328763G1 was printed on the PCB component side and it have IC CA3089E, the data od CA3089E was a FM-IF Amplifier/Limiter. Milo - Original Message - From: Gary Glaenzer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] LBI for 19C320523G2 and 19C328763G1 http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-30032f.pdf http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-30032f.pdf (19C320523G2) what is the 19C328763G1 ?? Gary - Original Message - From: Camilo So mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] LBI for 19C320523G2 and 19C328763G1 Need help to find GE MASTR II the LBI for 19C320523G2 and 19C328763G1, Can't find it on Repeater Builder, need the LBI to order or download the manual. Is there a way to search the board number 19C320523G2 to LBI-, this is what I need to learn. 73 W4CSO No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1521 - Release Date: 6/26/2008 11:20 AM Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer tuning with an Oscilloscope
One can tune cavities with incorrect interconnecting cables and make work. The performance will be reduced, about 5% in many cases. Tuning cavities seperatly can result in they not tuned as one wants when they are connected due to the cavity impedance and other parameters are not perfect. Tuning together will correct this for one is now tuning each to meet what it is connected to. I do recommend having the correct cables, but with the high cost of duplexers it is often the way of obtaining from a defunked commercial system at a much reduced cost. New cables can often be obtained from the manufacture for the desired freq. They may cost upwards of $100/set. Also improvements in performance can be had with proper lengths between cavities and TX and RX. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/25 Wed AM 12:25:51 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer tuning with an Oscilloscope w6nct wrote: The other (not-so-intuitive) part to this is that it is often difficult to do the tuning of a duplexer piece-meal; not impossible, just difficult. What I mean by this is trying to tune one stage (cavity), then another, then another; and combining it all together into the overall duplexer system. The problem is that the interconnecting pieces of coax become part of the tuned circuit. Once combined together, one cavity's tuning can impact the adjacent cavities. When I pre-cut the interconnecting cables to the specific resonant lengths, I could get much closer to having the combined system pretty close; but I've always had to adjust things just a little after it was all connected together as a duplexer system. Your observation is correct, and... your method started off accurate. Tune each cavity separately and when you hook them up together, if you're seeing double peaks and other odd things... think about what's wrong. The LENGTHS of the interconnect cables are incorrect. (Technically including the loop lengths inside the cavities.) Why? The duplexer's cables were factory-cut for a frequency too far away from your desired frequencies. At the point where you hook everything up after individually tuning cavities and things don't look right -- you need to adjust the lengths of the cables to make the duplexer behave. NOT the tuning rods. Retuning the cavities is NOT the right way to fix it if the cavities when hooked together. (The key here is to remember that is is NOT possible for the frequency of a quarter wave stub to change. It doesn't. But it's possible that the cable lengths are wrong, thus the filters can't work properly together to combine and make a better filter for the frequency in question.) If the duplexer as a full-set isn't producing a proper pattern on the test gear after tuning each can individually with a proper dummy load on the other side... the cable lengths are not right to couple everything together properly. I am also told that a service monitor or spectrum analyzer with a tracking generator built-in is also a preferred method; but I have never been able to afford either. They make it real easy to see the above effects and fix them properly. After having used them, I'd beg, borrow or steal to never have to tune a duplexer any other way, ever again. Nate WY0X Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 3x - Duplexers Sinclair SD-220,,,,2x Zetron 36B
Gervais, Obviously the problem with the duplexers is they will not do 600 kHz split. A UHF versions will do the 5 MHz split for Ham use. MARS, CAP and other normally gov related services that use wider splits can often use your VHF duplexers. They can be fitted inside many smaller repeaters making them very portable and compact. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: gervais [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/24 Tue PM 07:26:54 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 3x - Duplexers Sinclair SD-2202x Zetron 36B Hi all, i have 3 little duplexers here Sinclair SD-220 tuned at a:F1 152.660 F2 157.950 b:F1 tx 152.195,RX 157.465 c:F1 152.660,F2 157.950 theses are little duplexers , and i also have 2 Zetron 36B with a manual @Phone link@ make me an offer with something like an Portable or a mobile radio 73/s Gervais ve2ckn 73/s Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight
Scott, There are normally, not for all, 2 things that are tuned on a duplexer; notch and pass. Notch removes signal (min sig) and pass lets as much as it will thru (max). As with tuning rigs one tunes for SINAD or in FM quieting...that is tunes to get more quieting of the received signal. If you had a cavity/duplexer between a signal gen and a receiver on the output you could tune the notch adjustments for most noise, starting with quieting signal and tune the pass for least noise or quieting all the time adjusting the sig gen output as you go. Having a meter, talking meter I guess, with S-meter connection would also help. I think you get the idea; tune the notch to remove as much signal as you can and tune pass to get the most signal as you can using the speaker noise as the meter. I am sure others have better ways. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Scott Berry N7ZIB [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/25 Wed AM 08:33:56 EDT To: Repeater Builder Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight Hey guys, I have something I’d like to throw out too you and seeif there is a way to do this. For my repeater I’ll have a Cellwave 6 cavityduplexer and I would like to learn how to tune it myself. I am totally blind andthey don’t make a talking service monitor that I am aware of. How would onewith out sight tune a duplexer. There must be some way it could be done. Evenif it means I have to make my own monitor other wise it’ll cost me and I don’tget the satisfaction of learning. Scott N7ZIB Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna
Tony, First the Ringo-Ranger does not have the 7 dbi gain. To think a smaller 12 ft antenna would have about the same gain as one the size of a 4 bay dipole is not realistic. One note of info...antenna manufactures, especially from Japan, lie all the time. I would not use such harsh words except after years of this junk something needs to be said. I is said here on this board all the time for many know antenna performance here, hi. Your wind loading limits will require a smaller, lower gain antenna. If ice is a problem the Ringo-Ranger will probably not last that long. I would recommend going to www.tessco.com, a distributor of 2-way gear, and check thru their antenna section. They have a number of finnne manufactures with their specs. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Tony VE6MVP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/23 Mon PM 10:28:11 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna Folks We're moving a VHF amateur repeater to a 96' Trylon self supportingtower. The overwhelming opinion is that our current 210C4 four bayfolded dipole would be too much of a weight and wind load for thattower. One comment has been the Ringo Ranger. The wind load of theCushcraft Ringo Ranger II ARX2Bhttp://cushcraft.com/comm/support/pdf/RINGOS%20AR2%206%2010%20ARX450%20220B%202B.pdfis 0.5 square feet. The windload of the Sinclar SD214 http://www.sinclairtechnologies.com/catalog/resources/pdf/SD214-HF2P3LDF(D00S-LSABK)-DI.pdf (newer model to 210C4) is 5.57 square feet. Although the ice area is 17.04 sq ft. The SD214 has a dbd gain of 7.2, dbi of 9.3. The Ringo Ranger has dbi gain of 7.0. However the coverage plot in rural slightly hilly Alberta isn't all that much different. What would be suggestions for an alternative? Comments? Thanks, Tony (rapidly learning lots about towers and repeaters) Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna
Jim, The DB224 is usually supplied with 2 clamps where each clamp attaches to the DB224 mast and the other side clamps to the tower/mounting pipe. I believe these are made for 2-1/2 pipe. At www.tessco.com you can see pictures of these clamps and also purchase them although they are not cheap. They are very rugged galvanized clamps with 3/8-1/2 bolts 8 or so long and nuts. I would recommend looking on e-bay or someone here that might have them. Another mount is side mounts. For DB224 18 off the tower is typical. These have V shaped pieces one at each end of 2 pipes. The V is clamped to the tower and the other end the DB224 is clamped. You really need 2 mounts for this, one at the bottom and one near the top. Usually the top mount is a single pipe with C/U clamps to keep the antenna from swaying and the bottom holds the antenna weight. The DB 224 can be top mounted without the fear of the swaying in the wind damaging it unlike fiberglass antennas. I like putting top and bottom mounts when one can, but if top mounted not done for obvious reasons (there is no top, hi). 73,ron, n9ee/r From: Jim Cicirello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/24 Tue AM 11:11:02 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna Hi Ron Another Question Please: I was fortunate enough to buy a good DB224 without the support mast. After following the opinions on wind loading, etc. I am wondering what can be used for a support mast and where the masting might be purchased? Any ideas? Thanks JIM KA2AJH - Original Message - From: Ron WrightTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 7:47 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna Tony, First the Ringo-Ranger does not have the 7 dbi gain. To think a smaller 12 ft antenna would have about the same gain as one the size of a 4 bay dipole is not realistic. One note of info...antenna manufactures, especially from Japan, lie all the time. I would not use such harsh words except after years of this junk something needs to be said. I is said here on this board all the time for many know antenna performance here, hi. Your wind loading limits will require a smaller, lower gain antenna. If ice is a problem the Ringo-Ranger will probably not last that long. I would recommend going to www.tessco.com, a distributor of 2-way gear, and check thru their antenna section. They have a number of finnne manufactures with their specs. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Tony VE6MVP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/23 Mon PM 10:28:11 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna Folks We're moving a VHF amateur repeater to a 96' Trylon self supportingtower. The overwhelming opinion is that our current 210C4 four bayfolded dipole would be too much of a weight and wind load for thattower. One comment has been the Ringo Ranger. The wind load of theCushcraft Ringo Ranger II ARX2Bhttp://cushcraft.com/comm/support/pdf/RINGOS%20AR2%206%2010%20ARX450%20220B%202B.pdfis 0.5 square feet. The windload of the Sinclar SD214 http://www.sinclairtechnologies.com/catalog/resources/pdf/SD214-HF2P3LDF(D00S-LSABK)-DI.pdf (newer model to 210C4) is 5.57 square feet. Although the ice area is 17.04 sq ft. The SD214 has a dbd gain of 7.2, dbi of 9.3. The Ringo Ranger has dbi gain of 7.0. However the coverage plot in rural slightly hilly Alberta isn't all that much different. What would be suggestions for an alternative? Comments? Thanks, Tony (rapidly learning lots about towers and repeaters) Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna
Daniel, You are correct about Tessco selling the Ringo Ranger II. I've seen the Ranger II used in many non-ham installs always at low sites and on short poles and pipes. They have their place. Don't think ever seen used on a repeater in these situations. I've also seen station masters and DB224s at 30 ft. Not sure now but for the commercial version it use to be advertised as 4.5 dbd gain, which I believe, but same ant in Ham publications was 6 db. Never figured it out. Guess 6 db for commercial is different for Ham, hi. I've used a number of these and have 3 Ringos, the 3 ft version, and they do work especially where one cannot get a ground plane such as for disaster/emergency use. Light, quick to set up and easy to transport. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/24 Tue AM 08:09:09 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 7:47 AM, Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your wind loading limits will require a smaller, lower gain antenna. If ice is a problem the Ringo-Ranger will probably not last that long. I would recommend going to www.tessco.com, a distributor of 2-way gear, and check thru their antenna section. They have a number of finnne manufactures with their specs. not to point out the obvious, but the Ringo is actually among the antennas Tessco offers: http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProducts.do?groupId=340subgroupId=30 -- Dan Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.brauhaus.org Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna
An excellent repeater antenna for VHF is the Hustler G7-144. Don't recommend for high and areas where ice is a problem, but does perform as long as it stays together. Is less expensive. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Tony VE6MVP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/24 Tue PM 01:15:48 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna At 09:09 AM 2008-06-24 -0500, N0ATH wrote: Put up the best one the clubsfinances can possible be stretched to and you willend up spending the least in the in the longterm. Club finances are in excellent shape. The club owned a tower forthe last 30 years and was making reasonably money these last ten yearsrenting space. However the landowner got greedy and want a2000%, yes, 20x, increase in rent for pasture land. So we told himto f*** off and are in the middle of removing that tower. Which iswhy we are relocating the VHF repeater and UHF links. Tony Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: RE: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna
Jim, The place I've seen some get the pole is from another DB224 that was bad. I think maybe 2 conduent would work, but not sure about this being able to take the weather. Might paint. The DB224 is rather light for the size, but is rugged. Others have mounted the elements to a tower leg. This can work, but if going on very high tower where legs are say 4 mounting might be a problem. Also must install correctly; get the spacing vert correct. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Jim Cicirello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/24 Tue PM 12:36:55 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna Ron, Thanks for the mounting information. Ialso lack the DB224 Mast that the four dipoles mount on. From my research theoriginal is two pieces about twelve feet long that I believe bolt together, thediameter I have not been able to find. From the ones I have seen the mountingpole is quite robust. Do you have any pole stock that you could recommend thatwould hold the DB224 on a side mount configuration? As I recall although themast was very rigid, it was quite lightweight. Thanks JIM KA2AJH From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED] OnBehalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 12:23PM To:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re:[Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna Jim, The DB224 is usually supplied with 2 clamps where each clamp attaches to theDB224 mast and the other side clamps to the tower/mounting pipe. I believethese are made for 2-1/2 pipe. At www.tessco.com you can see pictures of these clamps and also purchase themalthough they are not cheap. They are very rugged galvanized clamps with3/8-1/2 bolts 8 or so long and nuts. I would recommend looking on e-bay or someone here that might have them. Another mount is side mounts. For DB224 18 off the tower is typical.These have V shaped pieces one at each end of 2 pipes. The V is clamped to thetower and the other end the DB224 is clamped. You really need 2 mounts forthis, one at the bottom and one near the top. Usually the top mount is a singlepipe with C/U clamps to keep the antenna from swaying and the bottom holds theantenna weight. The DB 224 can be top mounted without the fear of the swaying in the winddamaging it unlike fiberglass antennas. I like putting top and bottom mountswhen one can, but if top mounted not done for obvious reasons (there is no top,hi). 73,ron, n9ee/r From: Jim Cicirello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/24 Tue AM 11:11:02 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna Hi Ron Another Question Please: I was fortunate enough to buy a goodDB224 without the support mast. After following the opinions on wind loading,etc. I am wondering what can be used for a support mast and where the mastingmight be purchased? Any ideas? Thanks JIM KA2AJH -Original Message - From: Ron Wright To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 7:47 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonablylow wind load antenna Tony, First the Ringo-Ranger does not have the 7 dbi gain. To think a smaller 12ft antenna would have about the same gain as one the size of a 4 bay dipole isnot realistic. One note of info...antenna manufactures, especially from Japan, lie allthe time. I would not use such harsh words except after years of this junksomething needs to be said. I is said here on this board all the time for manyknow antenna performance here, hi. Your wind loading limits will require a smaller, lower gain antenna. If iceis a problem the Ringo-Ranger will probably not last that long. I would recommend going to www.tessco.com, a distributor of 2-way gear, andcheck thru their antenna section. They have a number of finnne manufactureswith their specs. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Tony VE6MVP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/23 Mon PM 10:28:11 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna Folks We're moving a VHF amateur repeater to a 96' Trylon selfsupportingtower. The overwhelming opinion is that our current 210C4 fourbayfolded dipole would be too much of a weight and wind load for thattower. One comment has been the Ringo Ranger. The wind load oftheCushcraft Ringo Ranger II ARX2Bhttp://cushcraft.com/comm/support/pdf/RINGOS%20AR2%206%2010%20ARX450%20220B%202B.pdfis0.5 square feet. The windload of the Sinclar SD214 http://www.sinclairtechnologies.com/catalog/resources/pdf/SD214-HF2P3LDF(D00S-LSABK)-DI.pdf(newer model to 210C4) is 5.57 square feet. Although the ice area is17.04 sq ft. The SD214 has a dbd gain of 7.2, dbi of 9.3. TheRingo Ranger has dbi gain of 7.0. However the coverage plot in ruralslightly hilly Albertaisn't all that much different. What would be suggestions for an alternative? Comments? Thanks, Tony (rapidly learning lots about towers and repeaters
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer tuning with an Oscilloscope
The one problem with using an scope for duplexer tuning most scopes have a 5V-5mv vert range. This is only 60 db, not near enough for duplexer tuning. Using a diode detector reduces this even more due to diode drop. This is getting down to using a Bird watt meter with a number of slugs to tune a duplexer. You can compensate this with higher power into the duplexer, but one should never tune with much power. To tune a duplexer one needs a meter/sensor that can read down to the 10 uV range. From 1 V this is about 100 db range, what is needed for good duplexer tuning. I guess one could help with a pre-amp on the scope. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: jistabout [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/23 Mon AM 04:13:04 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer tuning with an Oscilloscope Hi Joel, Well, setup is quite simple - For example, if tuning a complete pass/notch type of duplexer, I connect the output of the signal generator to the antenna port of the duplexer. I then connect the scope to whichever side of the duplexer I'm currently tuning, and I also connect a 50-ohm load to the remaining port. Then, I set the frequency of the generator to the pass frequency for the side which I'm tuning, and set the generator output high enough so as to trigger the scope. After the scope is showing a stable display, simply tune the pass adjustments for *maximum* amplitude on the scope, decreasing the generator output as needed. After tuning the pass adjustments, simply retune the signal generator to the notch frequency for the side which you are tuning, and tune the notch adjustments for *minimum* amplitude on the scope, while increasing the generator output as needed. Repeat the above procedure for the other side of the duplexer. All you're doing is using the scope as an output amplitude indicator, just as you would a Spectrum Analyzer (without tracking generator). The neat thing about this is that even VERY small amplitude changes can be easily seen on the scope, so precise tuning is possible, just as with the spectrum analyzer. I've tuned several Motorola T-1500 series UHF pass/notch duplexers this way, both 2 and 4 cavity units, and they work great - no measureable desense. My Oscilloscope uses a Tektronix 7A24 vertical amp plugin, which has a 50-ohm input. But I have also done this with a 7A26 and a 7A16 (both have 1-megohm inputs), and achieved the same results. If I remember correctly, for frequencies around 440-450Mhz, the scope timebase is set at 50ns, and the vertical amp at 1v per division or so. Actually, I usually just set the timebase so as to show several cycles on the display. Any more questions let me know :). - Darrell/KA7BTV --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, v44kai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Darrell, I never done it, and will like to try it. Can you send me a sketch of the setup, with a brief explanation of your procedure for accomplishing this? Will appreciate it very much Darrell. v44kai.Joel. - Original Message - From: jistabout [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 12:06 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with an Oscilloscope Hi All, Just curious if anyone here has used a wide-band oscilloscope (along with a signal source, of course) for duplexer and/or filter tuning? I use an older Tektronix 7904 500mhz scope along with an HP 8640B Signal Generator and it works great. I can't really measure filter response, but I can see amplitude changes both large and small very well, which allows for quite precise tuning. I've tuned a couple of pass/notch type duplexers and several notch-only units with this setup and they all work nicely. Anyway, wonder if anyone else does this and general comments on the technique. Thanks! - Darrell/KA7BTV Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer tuning with an Oscilloscope
The best instrument I used to tune a duplexer was and IFR spectrum anal with built in tracking gen. It output a sweep and displayed on a large 9 inch screen. Had tunable freq markers and was built machine. Let you know all that was going on except the SWR/impedance. Could tell where all the notches and passes were at the same time. This was over 20 years ago and know they have something better today, but still it worked great. Had enought dynamic range on output and input for 100 db range. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: w6nct [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/23 Mon PM 12:35:42 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer tuning with an Oscilloscope Hi Darrell, I've done it with an oscilloscope (slower than yours) and a Sweep-Marker generator; but not with just the oscilloscope, signal generator and frequency counter. If I recall, the HP 8640B is also an RF Signal Generator; so if combined with an RF-detector and your oscilloscope and frequency counter, you could theoretically do it. I have tuned simple filters with a signal-generator, frequency counter and an oscilloscope; but haven't had any luck with tuning full duplexers this way. The problem with this approach is that it is like trying to understand what's happening in the forest by only looking at one tree at a time. What I mean by this is that you will see the apparent changes at one frequency, without seeing what's happening to the spectrum around it. If you were only looking to tune a single notch band-pass circuit, then it might be Ok to just use the equipment you listed; but today's duplexers are made up of several band-pass and several notch stages, all working on a common signal. You can easily tweak one piece and completely destroy your ability to meet the overall goal (because you aren't also looking at the spectrum around the one frequency). The other (not-so-intuitive) part to this is that it is often difficult to do the tuning of a duplexer piece-meal; not impossible, just difficult. What I mean by this is trying to tune one stage (cavity), then another, then another; and combining it all together into the overall duplexer system. The problem is that the interconnecting pieces of coax become part of the tuned circuit. Once combined together, one cavity's tuning can impact the adjacent cavities. When I pre-cut the interconnecting cables to the specific resonant lengths, I could get much closer to having the combined system pretty close; but I've always had to adjust things just a little after it was all connected together as a duplexer system. I am also told that a service monitor or spectrum analyzer with a tracking generator built-in is also a preferred method; but I have never been able to afford either. A Sweep Generator effectively turns the oscilloscope into a spectrum analyzer (so that you can see the forest); and a Sweep-Marker Generator also provides you references to use to easily make your adjustments (letting you see which trees are important to you). To my perception, a decent Sweep-Marker Generator and even a home-made RF-detector can promote even a relatively low bandwidth oscilloscope into something nearly equivalent to an expensive spectrum analyzer with a tracking generator. By the way, you can often find used Sweep Generators around that will work on Amateur Radio frequencies (especially VHF/UHF); many that were made to help align TVs are even applicable. If it doesn't have the Marker Generator built-in, you could substitute the signal generator and frequency counter to inject a reference marker at a known frequency; but it will take you a bit longer to continually adjust the setup. Anyway, that was my 2-cents; hopefully it was useful. de W6NCT (Vern) --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, jistabout [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious if anyone here has used a wide-band oscilloscope (along with a signal source, of course) for duplexer and/or filter tuning? I use an older Tektronix 7904 500mhz scope along with an HP 8640B Signal Generator and it works great. ... - Darrell/KA7BTV Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with an Oscilloscope
Darrel, I've not used a scope for tuning duplexers, but know it can work if use the input level settings and sig gen level output adjustment. The scope is a device that can measure amplitude. Proper termination using things like dummy loads and other terminator would be required due to the scope having high input impedance. These terminators could be at the scope or duplexer output with a scope probe connected, but getting such connection might not be avialable. Most do not have access to such high freq scopes. I've used such in the past and there are plenty of models to choose from, but not the typical 2-way shop or Ham gear. If the scope were calibrated for level then one could do calculations to determine how well the duplexer is working. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: jistabout [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/22 Sun AM 01:06:47 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with an Oscilloscope Hi All, Just curious if anyone here has used a wide-band oscilloscope (along with a signal source, of course) for duplexer and/or filter tuning? I use an older Tektronix 7904 500mhz scope along with an HP 8640B Signal Generator and it works great. I can't really measure filter response, but I can see amplitude changes both large and small very well, which allows for quite precise tuning. I've tuned a couple of pass/notch type duplexers and several notch-only units with this setup and they all work nicely. Anyway, wonder if anyone else does this and general comments on the technique. Thanks! - Darrell/KA7BTV Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Anyone fa miliar with the LDG RVS-8 Voting system?
The Motorola and think also GE voter look at the peak and valley audio to determine sig quality. If at the valley there is little audio level then very quiting signal. If noisey then at the valleys would still be noise and the peak hi to valley would be less. This is decoded by using some op-amp diodes to compare the peak hi level to the low level valley. I've used the same circuit to look at data in DV signals. Some voters look at high freq noise, but this will not go down a phone line so the voter can see. Many commercial voting systems use phone lines for link. Looking at only the audio allows this. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/21 Sat AM 12:27:49 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Anyone familiar with the LDG RVS-8 Voting system? At 6/20/2008 15:52, you wrote: I'm not sure I follow. I would think that for peak and valley detection to work right, you need to look at the voice spectrum, not the noise spectrum, and use the ratio of the peaks to valleys to compute a value indicitive of the S/N, and then compare S/N values among the active channels to determine which gets voted. I think that this kind of peak to valley ratioed comparison would help even out differences in audio levels between receivers (since you're comparing ratios, not absolute levels). I would also think that by looking at the audio passband alone, it would also minimize the detrimental effect of frequency response differences between sources, particulary with regard to the typical high-end rolloff above the audio passband for sources backhauled across links as compared to the local receiver, which is often the most challenging obstacle to overcome as mentioned previously. Has anyone actually designed a voter than works on this principle? One issue I see is that proper operation of the voter may depend on proper user input signals. A user radio with a hot mic in a noisy environment (hence constant deviation) would not be properly voted, particularly if the user wasn't moving. Several examples of such a scenario occurring during the LA Marathon come to mind... Bob NO6B Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Anyone fa miliar with the LDG RVS-8 Voting system?
Cort, Yes your high to valley low will work as I stated in another reply. Has been used by Motorola years ago. Also the rec levels from different receivers can be different since one would be looking at a ratio. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Cort Buffington [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/20 Fri PM 03:57:47 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Anyone familiar with the LDG RVS-8 Voting system? Not quite enough of a programmer to take on the DSP, but will likely look at the peaks and valleys with the ADC. I'm not sure why I'd need more than one noise circuit though. I don't want to do a sample and hold, the ADC and software can do that. I was thinking build one analog circuit and look for valleys and peaks when the ADC reads the analog circuit output -- that is to say, keep track of the highest level and lowest level over a certain very short time period The highest high and highest low will indicate more noise component? Yes? Am I missing the boat?/divdivbr/divdivAnd for the rest of the list, i can take this conversation with Jeff off-line if we're putting out a bad S/N ratio (pun intended) 73 DE N0MJS On Jun 20, 2008, at 2:11 PM, Jeff DePolo wrote: My exact issue when looking at S/N generators -- the analog part. Which is why I am about to build a 2-3kHz bandpass filter and switch to looking for low averaged values by less integration (shorter delta t) and faster sampling in the ADC to look for valleys in a better way. Make any sense at all? Yes, but you will have more immunity to audio level variations between receivers if you do peak-and-valley comparison. Compare the ratio of peaks to valleys rather than valley-only and you'll get a more accuratebrmeasurement of short-term S/N. Yes, you'll have two sets of detectors for each channel (one for peaks, one for valleys), and yes, you'll have twice asbrmany inputs to mux into the ADC, but I think you'd end up with a superior-performing product. Something to think about or tinker with. Of course, you could avoid all of the analog nonsense and do it with DSP, that would be a cool project. Wish I had more time for these kinds of projects... --- Jeff WN3A --Cort BuffingtonH: +1-785-838-3034M: +1-785-865-7206 Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] the scam changes...
Dave, I think we need more solutions like the base ball bats to deal with these problem people. All UPS shippers including small me, can re-route a package enroute or have it returned before deliever. There is a charge, but I simply bring up World Ship, the UPS software, select the item and re-route it. I do have to go to the UPS web site which is automatic. Even if on the truck a few blocks from delievery the truck will be notified. One can find within minutes a package has been delievered. They have a pretty good system. I am sure FedEx and some others have the same thing. Not Post Office. You could have put the credit card purchase in dispute and would not have to pay. QVC would have eaten the cost. The credit card company would simply withdraw the money from QVC bank. I like credit cards for they give all some protection, but in the end the seller will suffer if anyone. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Dave Gomberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/18 Wed PM 04:09:51 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] the scam changes... At 04:01 6/18/2008, Ron Wright wrote: Credit card companies are a big problem, but with our ecomonic system it is almost a requirement one takes them. Trying to report a bad card is almost impossible to get any action. They may know exactly where the thief is, but will do nothing. Ron, it is worse than that. I checked my credit card on line and there was a charge from QVC (which I never even watch. much less buy from). I called QVC and they said someone used that card to buy a camera shipped to San Diego (not where I live!). I told them it was a bogus order, they said no harm, they would just ask UPS not to deliver on grounds of fraud. I imagine they use UPS enough to have that power. That is not what I would have done. I would have dressed a couple of guys up in brown jump suits and sent them to the door, This your camera??? If the guy says yes that is when the baseball bat comes out and his hands accidentally get crushed. I'll bet he wouldn't do it again. -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html -- Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] the scam changes...
Dave, One other sick thing about this...if one tells the credit card company of the scam they will do nothing other than contact you, the card holder, or put stop on your card. The bogus buyer thief...the credit card company cares less. Just try to report something like this. They do nothing. Might if were for 1000s. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Dave Gomberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/18 Wed PM 04:09:51 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] the scam changes... At 04:01 6/18/2008, Ron Wright wrote: Credit card companies are a big problem, but with our ecomonic system it is almost a requirement one takes them. Trying to report a bad card is almost impossible to get any action. They may know exactly where the thief is, but will do nothing. Ron, it is worse than that. I checked my credit card on line and there was a charge from QVC (which I never even watch. much less buy from). I called QVC and they said someone used that card to buy a camera shipped to San Diego (not where I live!). I told them it was a bogus order, they said no harm, they would just ask UPS not to deliver on grounds of fraud. I imagine they use UPS enough to have that power. That is not what I would have done. I would have dressed a couple of guys up in brown jump suits and sent them to the door, This your camera??? If the guy says yes that is when the baseball bat comes out and his hands accidentally get crushed. I'll bet he wouldn't do it again. -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html -- Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: software repeater controller
I would not trust a VIC20 to feed my dog. They were junk made of discrete parts one could do in your garage.. Were fun for the day though. I also had a Pet. Did a lot of things with it. The PC is so such a stable platform. The OSs, now that is another issue. The PC does offer so much with its sound card and a mulitude of I/O options. However, I would think a dedicated card for the repeater would be gooda card doing the simple interfacing that would run with the PC and run alone if PC failed. A simple card that did the COS/PTT/Audio, but had interface to the PC. Also a watch-dog-timer that would force PC reboot on failure. I really don't trust any computer for long term task. Always need some sort of recovery vehicle built in to monitor performance and auto kick start in a failure. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Alexandre Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/18 Wed PM 03:22:27 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: software repeater controller Not at all. Using a PC to control a repeater as complex as the system here with remotes etc. is a perfectly logical choice and allows nearly unlimited flexability. The original controller on the system here back in the mid 1980s was a Commodore VIC-20 :). Any young'ens remember those? A Vic-20 is wyy safer and more stable than a PC. I'd not trust my repeater to a PC. Of course, I have a extense background in microcontrollers. I do hope the one creating this controller make it safe :P Greetings from Brazil Pu1BZZ Alexandre Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: software repeater controller
Yep, I remember the VIC20 and 64 and Pet, etc. Scars me and wonder how we survived. That is the reason I started building my own, hi. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: jistabout [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/18 Wed PM 03:15:32 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: software repeater controller --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Alexandre Souza alexandre- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For multiple audio ports these days I'd recommend using USB audio devices. ISA slots are way gone and PCI slots aren't far behind. For an embedded PC controlling radios 24/7 you want something small, quiet and low power, most form factors that fit that description usually have few if any PCI slots. A PC controlling a repeater?!?!?! What is the problem of using a small microcontroller, with some BASIC programming??? You are using a cannon to kill a microbe he he he Not at all. Using a PC to control a repeater as complex as the system here with remotes etc. is a perfectly logical choice and allows nearly unlimited flexability. The original controller on the system here back in the mid 1980s was a Commodore VIC-20 :). Any young'ens remember those? - Darrell/KA7BTV Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Voter Audio
N9NJS, Might look at some of the Mot and GE voters. They are old, but had some very good circuits and operational modes. I've used their input circuits to clean up digital and other modes before whatever I was driving. The GE used a tone to indicate no rcv input as a means of locking out a rcvr so one did not vote on it, tone present rcvr had no input. Simple, but good. I'm using a driver circuit from a Mot voter to build a D-Star interface from a receiver. Cleans up things. GE had some real good S/N voters. This might give some good ideas. I built a voter once. Did not go far with it. I liked the auto leveling I built in. Voters are usually critical on level. Was using digital pots in an auto alignment mode to set the levels so all receivers would have same level. Would go to TX site and insert rig with tone on input freq and put voter in auto-align mode and it would adjust levels. Of course still did not correct for response differences. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Cort Buffington [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/18 Wed PM 01:41:48 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Voter Audio Folks, I have been working on voter design lately. I'm a ham, I don't make my money working on radio, so I can both do this stuff slowly for fun. I have constructed the S/N circuits in the LDG, and the original QST article the LDG S/N section was based on... And about 1/2 dozen variants of my own adding to and changing things in the design. The LDG circuit works very well. The problem I found was a large disparity in response between linked radios and the local receiver. Every radio in the system throughout my tests has been standard narrowband (+/-5kHz). This work has not been to make a better voter than LDG or Doug Hall, but just because I want to. I am currently building a valley type S/N detector to measure the performance difference with that stye. The one thing LDG really has going for them is that the S/N circuit connects to an ADC and a microprocessor. The S/N detector is already clean, and connecting my own designs to an ADC and microprocessor, I can see where they likely make great improvements with software on top of the hardware. FWIW73 DE N0MJS On Jun 18, 2008, at 11:17 AM, skipp025 wrote: They type of audio used from the receivers can be just about any type as long as all of the receivers use the same audio. Not really... depends on the specific voter circuit. Audio types that are acceptable are line level and speaker audio. Any composite audio within the the level-range of the voter circuit (varies with the specific voter circuit) and containing the proper spectral components required by the voter circuit. Also, it does not matter if the audio is de-emphasized or not as long as all of the receivers are the same.brbrThe audio doesn't have to be the same... but one would like tospan class=Apple-converted-space say for most cases it's probably better. The de-emph yes or no requirement is again dependent on the specific voter circuit design and how it performs. It goes on to mention that audio response is the biggest challenge, try and get the audio response the same on all channels for best performance. As a general rule of thumb probably so... but if you understand the voter circuit... you can simply equalize the inputs where required. cheers, skipp --Cort BuffingtonH: +1-785-838-3034M: +1-785-865-7206 Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: software repeater controller
This was what I was told over 30 years ago...why put a micro on a repeater...a waist. In the commerical world where get input key transmitter yes a micro a waist. Well I did and it opened up all kinds of possibilities. We wanted a tail...add hardware or add software...want a timeout, add hardware or add software...want a tail beep, add hardware or software...want control, add lots of hardware or software with a DTMF IC...want remote base/link add lots of hardware or software with 2 transitors...CW ID add lots of hardware or software. These are the old simple stuff, but very quickly software base control becomes much cheaper and simpler. The with the PC you got all that power including sound card, internet for Echolink/IRLP, etc. However, the better repeaters pay more attention to RF side, but a controller can be fun to play with and can have important expansion features. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Alexandre Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/18 Wed PM 01:29:48 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: software repeater controller For multiple audio ports these days I'd recommend using USB audio devices. ISA slots are way gone and PCI slots aren't far behind. For an embedded PC controlling radios 24/7 you want something small, quiet and low power, most form factors that fit that description usually have few if any PCI slots. A PC controlling a repeater?!?!?! What is the problem of using a small microcontroller, with some BASIC programming??? You are using a cannon to kill a microbe he he he Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Need help on a Micor repeater
Dan, Is this one of the Micors that has the PA heatsink sticking out of the upper right corner of the unified chassis??? Some say it is a Mocom PA. If so I have used one on a high profile repeater for over 12 years. I reduced the power out to 40 watts, all I needed. It is still in service although getting ready to replace with MSR2000. Most of the Micors were made for 150-160 range, some for 160-174, but ones from CANADA and US gov were 140-150. The last is what I have. In the part model number on the cabinet front will tell what band segment. I've done a number of the 150-160 for Ham. I find the exciters and PAs work, but at slightly lower power out...110 W unit puts out 90 W. They did make 45 and 60 watt versions. However, on the receiver I've found the 150-160 do not want to tune down. Motorola made them too good. To correct this I removed the helical and replaced the tuning slugs with regular screws with the head inside. This gives more C and moves them down. Some have added turns to the coils, but a lot of work. The screws are 10-32. Don't know what the skirks look like, but do work. The other problem I had was on many of the base exciters Motorola used a large cap on the Ch Ele for keying...would ground the Ch Ele ground to key. This large cap would take time to charge and the repeater would come up off freq for a few 100 ms. I replaced with a mobile exicter. Most of the unit is same as the mobile so can use mobile manual for tuning. I don't have spare manual, but sure you can find on e-bay or here. They do make excellent repeaters, just takes some work. I installed a SQ gate card which made it a repeater. I used the SQ gate card for COS. It has excellent carrier sense for this. Of course I added my controller to give some bells and farts and ID and control. Got all except PL logic from back plane at the SQ gate card. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Dan Cation [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/18 Wed PM 10:44:51 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Need help on a Micor repeater Hi all - just acquired a Micor Unified Chassis repeater (VHF High band) and am in the process of checking it out and trying to get tuned to 2 meters (147.78/18). So far it looks like it has a problem with the PA and it also does not look like the PA is wanting to tune down to 2 meters. It is a 100 watt Intermittent Duty PA (yeah, I know - I should have got the numbers off of it..), Looks like the repeater is about 1984 vintage from the dates I'm seeing. I have the control shelf manual but have not been able to find the RF deck manual yet. Anyone have any Micor schematics? I'll get the numbers off the deck tomorrow. This PA looks like it is off of some sort of mobile, but not a Micor (it is the original deck). Only two tuning caps in the whole deck and they max out before they peak. It was putting out 78 watts flat out on the 155 TX frequency before I started - I'm betting one of the 4 finals is dead. Anyone have any experience with something like this? I haven't started on the the receiver yet. Any help or guidance on this would be appreciated. Thanks in advance - Dan WB0SHN. Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 633-6a-2n notch duplexer
Dave, I've tuned a number of these 633s and had no problems. They are pretty much notch only with wide pass. Often get over 90 db notch with little, less than 1 db, insertion loss. I would think you have some internal problem, maybe from lightning. Wish I could help more. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: catdoogan1969 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/18 Wed AM 01:54:08 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 633-6a-2n notch duplexer hey guys, I've got my hands on a GR1225 repeater with an RFE4000a (Celwave 633-2a-2n) notch duplexer and a phone patch. The repeater had some questionable solder problems on the output of the final due very likely to the poorly tuned duplexer. The solder was a quick fix and repeater has a healthy 30 watt output with clean rx (opening about .25uV). My current problem is the tuning of this duplexer, I started out with decent rx at the dx antenna input but no tx power was passing. Checked with watt meter at the tx port and had full reflect. Tried retuning tx side and lost rx sens. I can't seem to get either the rx or tx lined up now. I can get the notches placed right but the pass portion does not get much higher than -10dB (incoming set to 0dB) usually lower. Is there a start from scratch tuning procedure on these? I contacted celwave and they gave me a very simple tuning procedure. My problem is that I do not know what the original frequencies were on this duplexer. The documentation says that these units are good across 450-470MHz but could there be certain frequencies that they just don't work well at. I am using an IFR 1900CSA Monitor with a tracking gen and a 50ohm load on the opposite port being tuned. Any thoughts on what I am doing wrong would be great...I'm starting to think I've over-promised on this unit. Thanks guys, Dave Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 633-6a-2n notch duplexer
Dave, Mike is correct. One should use low side for low freq and high for high freq regardless of rx and tx. Completely forgot about this. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/19 Thu PM 02:15:01 EDT To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 633-6a-2n notch duplexer The 10 dB of pass loss is indicative of the RX and TX ports are swapped. Depending on what the duplexer was intended to connect to, ignore the RX/TX labeling and think of the ports as HIGH and LOW. Look at the rx/tx frequencies on the main label to let you know which is high and low. Best of luck, Mike/W5JR ---[Original Message]--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Jun 19, 2008 2:04:15 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 633-6a-2n notch duplexer Dave, I've tuned a number of these 633s and had no problems. They are pretty much notch only with wide pass. Often get over 90 db notch with little, less than 1 db, insertion loss. I would think you have some internal problem, maybe from lightning. Wish I could help more. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: catdoogan1969 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/18 Wed AM 01:54:08 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 633-6a-2n notch duplexer hey guys, I've got my hands on a GR1225 repeater with an RFE4000a (Celwave 633-2a-2n) notch duplexer and a phone patch. The repeater had some questionable solder problems on the output of the final due very likely to the poorly tuned duplexer. The solder was a quick fix and repeater has a healthy 30 watt output with clean rx (opening about .25uV). My current problem is the tuning of this duplexer, I started out with decent rx at the dx antenna input but no tx power was passing. Checked with watt meter at the tx port and had full reflect. Tried retuning tx side and lost rx sens. I can't seem to get either the rx or tx lined up now. I can get the notches placed right but the pass portion does not get much higher than -10dB (incoming set to 0dB) usually lower. Is there a start from scratch tuning procedure on these? I contacted celwave and they gave me a very simple tuning procedure. My problem is that I do not know what the original frequencies were on this duplexer. The documentation says that these units are good across 450-470MHz but could there be certain frequencies that they just don't work well at. I am using an IFR 1900CSA Monitor with a tracking gen and a 50ohm load on the opposite port being tuned. Any thoughts on what I am doing wrong would be great...I'm starting to think I've over-promised on this unit. Thanks guys, Dave Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] the scam changes...
The kicker is the credit card companies will remove the charge from the card holder and then take the money back from you and your equipment is gone...well if you had shipped. They approved the card, but then hold the merchant responsible. Credit card companies are a big problem, but with our ecomonic system it is almost a requirement one takes them. Trying to report a bad card is almost impossible to get any action. They may know exactly where the thief is, but will do nothing. 73,ron, n9ee/r From: Com/Rad Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/17 Tue PM 10:46:14 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] the scam changes... I share this crazy deal with y'allSome Mort in Indonesia gave us an order for 10K worth of ICOM gear on 4 credit cards.Air mail to Surabaya or wherever. We took the card info but never shipped the stuff. a few days passed an some lady in Albequerqe ( spelling? ) called me and asked why we nicked her Visa for $2500 - naturally I appologized and refunded / reversed the deal. Scam-o-rama is alive and well on the internet!. I am waiting for my many 3.3 mega buck slices from confidants in the third world. oy-vey EdCom/Rad IncDes Plaines, IL - Original Message - From: skipp025To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:26 PM- Subject: [Repeater-Builder] the scam changes... Oh... about once every month or so I receive the scam email requesting radio equipment prices and availability for a quick purchase using a credit card. Every one of these quick credit card purchases seems to be a scam... The funny part is almost every email scam request is for a bulk purchase of Motorola CP-200 radios... Does the third world only know of Motorola CP-200 portable radios? This latest scam email requests not only the CP-200 radio price and shipping... but now they're gettin' greedy asking for prices on Thuraya Dual-Mode Satellite/GSM Phones. Once in a while I reply with a crazy price quote and they fire back with a list of Visa Cards to charge the purchase toward. I used to call Visa and tell them about the problem... but the Visa Card Corporation has their head firmly planted and there is no easy way to turn in a fake charge report. Master Card seems to be much better... So... what's in your wallet? cheers, s. [paste text] Dear Sir/Ma, We are inquiring to place order for the following items below, please do send us the prices with the availability The items are as follows: 1. Motorola two way radio 16 channels, 5 Watt. VHF,MODEL CP 200 2. Thuraya Dual-Mode Satellite/GSM Phones The dual-mode satellite/GSM Thuraya HNS-7101 phone 3. Thuraya SO-2510 Satellite Phone Item# thu-bas-2510 Please get back to us with the prices plus the availability on the above items. Regards Kimberly Jones Global Concepts Inc. Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: software repeater controller
It does appear the longer one has a system the longer it takes to come up and shut down. I am sure it is the longer one has the PC the more gets loaded and the OS works with more. I have gotten to a point, usually after getting something bad, I use a restore CD that wips all and starts over and the PC runs well for a time. I back up all my important things that I do with an external HD once each month. This HD is only connected and on when I do a back up or need to recover something. I don't trust anything espeically lightning and of course the net itself. The newer the OS the more memory and work they do. I am running Vista and like it over the XP, but like XP also. I even have a 98 machine and every time I use it I go to sleep waiting. Just the dang computers. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Coy Hilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/17 Tue PM 09:19:40 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: software repeater controller XP actually runs quite well. As long as you don't load up every program that you can find on the web on it. for a dedicated controller just load what it takes to run it and it'llsuprise you!!! AC0Y --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, wd8chl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jistabout wrote: Hi Scott, I've been running a somewhat complex system which uses an old PC as the controller for several years now and it works just fine. You can see pictures and details at: http://www.ka7btv.com/cora.htm http://www.ka7btv.com/cora.htm This system deos not use the Echostation software to which you refer, but I see no reason why that shouldn't work fine for you. The system here does use Windows XP Professional, and it easily runs both Echolink and the custom repeater control program. Windows XP is the only operating system which I have found that correctly handles multiple sound cards. Good luck and please let us know of your progress. - Darrell/KA7BTV I can't believe a PII-233 is running XP. I have yet to see a PC of ANY speed run XP well enough to call it adequate. The company laptop is a Compaq PIII-1200 w/ 256M ram, and it makes me feel like I'm back with the old 486-66 and Win95 installed from floppyXcP The Sony Vaio I had at the last job was a P-IV 1800, and it wasn't much better...w/512M ram... Oh well, enough rant...any likely hood of making the prog/interface publicly available? Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] RE: [msf5000] MSF5000 Forced Battery Revert
The laymans equation for power is P=IE(cos(phase difference between I E)) The cos of phase difference is the power factor. This could be hard to determine by most who do not have the proper equipment. However, power is not the voltage and current at a single point of time, but the product of the intergal of the IE wave giving the RMS power. This is the power we are most often concerned with. My home power meter was changed about a year ago to a digital one that can be read by a worker in a van passing by on the street. The old for over 70 years meter of a motor with rotor and stator in parrallel/series worked great and was simple. I wonder what method is being used with the new digital meters. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/13 Fri PM 12:36:02 EDT To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] RE: [msf5000] MSF5000 Forced Battery Revert Jesse, The short answer is that switching power supplies are significantly more efficient than either linear or ferro-resonant power supplies over most of their output range. At idle, switchers draw practically no current, whereas linear and ferro-resonant supplies are always generating some heat- and heat is wasted power. Before we get too far into this discussion, I must remind our readers that measurement of AC power requires a true-RMS power meter; one cannot measure AC power by taking independent readings of voltage and current. When separate readings of AC voltage and AC current are made and then multiplied together, the product is volt-amperes not watts. Volt-amperes, or VA, is apparent power not real power, and it will be greater than real power in any inductive circuit. To measure real power accurately, an AC power meter uses a four-quadrant multiplier to make measurements of voltage and current at the same point in the cycle. The aluminum disc that spins in your kilowatthour meter is driven by two coils- one which is energized by the line voltage, and one which is energized by line current. The torque produced in the disc is the instantaneous product of voltage and current, and that torque is proportional to true power in watts. A permanent magnet brake controls the speed of the disc so that it is calibrated in watts and is geared to a dial that displays the accumulated energy consumed in kilowatthours. Your electric bill is for consumption of watts, not volt-amperes. I have just posted a number of power supply load test reports in the Files section of the Repeater-Builder site. Look for a folder entitled, Power Supplies. This is a work in progress, and I am collecting new data as time permits. I just upgraded my electronic load, and I can now load up to 50 amperes, so several of my load tests will be repeated. Also, I started my project using a fairly stiff 120 VAC branch circuit, but I soon realized that test results were affected by the droop in my line voltage caused by increasing voltage drop as the load on the UUT increased. More recent tests have been performed with an input maintained at exactly 120 VAC. Since the efficiency of any appliance is the ratio of power out to power in, the Overall Efficiency value is just that- the DC load in watts divided by the AC input power in watts. Ironically, the overall efficiency of some power supply designs will vary significantly as the AC input voltage varies. Linear power supplies, such as the Astron RS-35, become more efficient as the input voltage drops, because less heat is generated in the pass transistors. At a point just above the level where output regulation fails, the pass transistors are saturated and generating minimum heat. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jesse Lloyd Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 8:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [msf5000] MSF5000 Forced Battery Revert Eric, From your study which power supplies did you find to be the most efficient, and also which have the least idle current? Jesse VE7LYD On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 8:07 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 18:59:46 -0700, Eric Lemmon wrote: If your MSF5000 power supply consumes 500 watts when unloaded, it has a serious problem and needs repair. Interesting. I can't get to them now, but I checked them both after getting them on the ham band and they both did it. Over the years, I've also tested several constant voltage or ferro-resonant transformers and they all drew just about the same current when loaded or unloaded. That's why they run so hot when they have no load. I can't recheck now, so will just let this float until such time as I can do so. Until then, disregard what I said. Gary Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder ] Wanted to buy: Panasonic CF-25 laptop or equival ent for radio programmming
In Windows XP and before when one selects START one will get the window for shutting down. One selection is to restart in DOS. Also one can find a DOS prompt usually in the START program section. I am assuming you want to get the full old screen level and not the Windows window with DOS prompt. Once you get into DOS and then are finished simply enter exit at the DOS prompt (C) and you will return to Windows unless you came up in DOS. Many computers seem to have a way of forcing one into Windows aside from the autoexec and other start ups. I still use a PC with DOS...it is my parts programmer. Turn on, comes up in DOS and loads the programmer. Never goes to Windows. I used a few times today. If it aint broke don't fix it. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Ken Arck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/12 Thu PM 06:34:36 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wanted to buy: Panasonic CF-25 laptop or equivalent for radio programmming At 02:53 PM 6/12/2008, Barry C' wrote: Doesn't the machine just need a suitable port and speed ? , the toughbook isn't a must ? ---I use a new generation Athlon based laptop (3800) which I boot directly to DOS and have no problem at all with RSS for the MSF5000 at least. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em! Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Icom F1010 data problem
What format is this data in...what is it; tones, digital voltage level changing, etc??? If digital voltage level changing like RS232 type an the radio is using phase mod this can be a problem. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 1:38 AM, essexsaxo wrote: Hi, I've tried both normal and inverted data through the F1010 still with no luck, I completely stuck now? I've tried changing the deviation using the initial set mode on the radio and still nothing. Do you think i may be wasting my time? --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com , nj902 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your data polarity might be inverted. - - - - - - --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com , essexsaxo essexsaxo@ wrote: ... I have been trying to send some POCSAG Data through an Icom F1010 ... mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Duplexer available
These mobile duplexers work very well. They are primarily a notch only, but have some band pass (no tuning for band pass). So do not give out of band protection quite as good as a base BPBR type. I have built repeaters with Exec IIs and used one of the mobile phone tops that is raised which allows the duplexer to be installed inside. Makes a very compact package. Have also used with other repeaters. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Scott Berry wrote: Hey Terry, Looks like this is the same duplexer I’ll have on my repeater. How’d they work out? Pretty well? Just out of curiosity what made you decide to upgrade the duplexer? Scott Berry Email: sberry at northlc.com Ham Call sign: N7ZIB ___ From: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Repeater- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 2:45 PM To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Duplexer available Celwave 6 cavity mobile (compact) set. BNC connectors. I believe rated for 50 watts 450-470, but worked well on 443.050 + ham split. I obtained a Wacom BpBr set and these are no longer needed. $60 gets them shipped to you in a Priority Mail flat rate box, CONUS only Terry [EMAIL PROTECTED] com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wx3m. info http://wx3m.info
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: antenna suggestions for 440mhz
Paul, Interesting test. I am assuming you have some professional antenna range which is what lots of us here would like to hear from on antennas. Many of us have used the 150-160 DB224 and 450-470 folded dipoles int he Ham bands. Same with the fiberglass. About all we can do is measure the SWR, but always wonder about the gain and pattern differences. Have you measured these antennas for Ham use. Often getting these used is easy due to commercial guys getting rid of them while in mint condx. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 11:13 PM, Paul Plack wrote: Allan, I question the relevance, but here goes. I just modeled an ordinary half-wave dipole in free space in EZNEC. 20 MHz low at 450 MHz is about 4.5%. At 4.5% above design frequency, the difference in the pattern of the single dipole is negligible, and the gain rises 0.04 dB. At 4.5% below design frequency, the difference in the pattern of the single dipole is negligible, and the gain drops 0.04 dB. For entertainment' s sake, I modeled it at 100% above design frequency. Impedance is 1754 ohms, for an SWR of 44.9:1, but assuming you could match it without loss, you'd enjoy 1.79 dB gain at the horizon, slightly elongating the major lobes in a polar plot. Is it your position that combining a bunch of dipoles in a colinear phased array does not change their behavior compared to a single dipole? If that's true, we're all been wasting lots of money. By the way, my recent modeling experience has been almost exclusively with half-wave dipoles, fed in-phase, spaced a half-wave apart, for applications involving single-site low-band repeaters using separate antennas to achieve isolation through vertical separation. In this application, the null in the vertical axis is much more important than the beamwidth at the horizon. I acknowledge that the available bandwidth before the pattern decays may be different in the commercial antennas being discussed. If someone can tell me the spacing and phasing of the elements in the popular folded-dipole arrays, I'll try modeling them at some point, and see how they behave differently from my application. I've also played a little with antennas spaced at 3/8- and 5/8-wave, with phasing leading or lagging by 45 degrees, and some very interesting fill patterns can be created. 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: allan crites mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 7:14PM mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re:antenna suggestions for 440mhz mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Paul, mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Perhaps you can now explain how the radiation pattern changes on a single center fed, 1/2 wave length simple dipole when the frequency is changed both above and below the dipole resonant frequency, and how that relates to the statements you have made below. mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 73 Allan Crites WA9ZZU Paul Plack [EMAIL PROTECTED] net mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] No, parallel-fed antennas do NOT suffer uptilt/downtilt as frequency is varied unless the harness was special-ordered for factory downtilt. If the antenna wasn't ordered with downtilt, all of the elements are fed in phase, and they will always be in phase regardless of frequency. Jeff, the pattern depends on both phasing and spacing. As frequency drops, the interelement phasing, expressed in degrees, remains the same, but the spacing, expressed in degrees or wavelengths, drops. If you model a colinear array of parallel-fed dipoles in an antenna software program, and don't scale the dimensions as you scale the frequency, you'll see the main lobe shift up or down, and butterfly lobes appear, as you get a few per cent off-frequency. In an extreme case, a pair of vertical colinear dipoles fed in phase with half-wave spacing has the familiar big lobe toward the horizon. As frequency rises, the pattern degrades until, at a frequency of 2X, it becomes an end-fire array, with most energy directed straight up and down. This happens with no change in phasing or spacing. 73, Paul, AE4KR
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola RICK
The Comm Spec CW ID plugs into this RICK with little interfacing. Might have to specify a cable. Also, using the 2 connectors that interface to the radios in the GM300 makes it easy to interface a controller have many more bells and farts than the RICK. I did one few days ago and it was easy. One can get the connectors off e-bay and I am sure other sources. Of course if commercial repeater the Mot RICK is very good, just need ID. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 11:11 PM, Kevin Berlen, K9HX wrote: Sorry, no CWID in the HLN R.I.C.K. controller. Some info on it can be found here: http://www.batlabs. com/rick. html http://www.batlabs.com/rick.html Kevin, K9HX At 09:11 PM 6/4/2008, you wrote: I have build a repeater using two CDM1250's and a RICK controller. Its the HLNB. I'm wondering if the controller can do CWID. The unit has two RJ11 jacks on it. What are they for? Finally there is a program mode switch on the RICK. What does that do? The repeater is working BTW, I used the DIP switch settings to get it going. I'd really like a CWID function. Thanks -Tim No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1482 - Release Date: 6/4/2008 7:10 AM http://www.batlabs.com/rick.html
