Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Those PGE Smart Meters (again)
Are you certain that the smart power meters are BPL? Things I've been reading is that they are mesh-based in the Part 15 900MHz ISM band. -Brian / KF4ZWZ On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Kris Kirby k...@catonic.us wrote: On Mon, 11 Jan 2010, Eric Lemmon wrote: It's quite simple: when the signal goes away, the meter must have lost power. When the HF bands are clear, the BPL network must be down? -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Those PGE Smart Meters (again)
Brian Raker wrote: Are you certain that the smart power meters are BPL? Things I've been reading is that they are mesh-based in the Part 15 900MHz ISM band. Out here PGE has a fair number operating in the 450-470 MHz band as well. And the electric and gas meter networks are separate. Matthew Kaufman
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Those PGE Smart Meters (again)
Skipp... Our application is on DOCSIS network... Closed network... Works well for the roughly 125k devices on it... Auto polling for mapping is about every 90 seconds - refreshing the map manually causes a manual poll which takes about 10 seconds to complete. Worst case we're looking at about a 3 minute delay between poll time and map display if it misses the refresh. Once a minute per modem on random intervals... Not sure about your particular issue with PGE - the majority of the timeframe issues I've had with regulated utilities like power and phone have been as a result of PUC mandates... Anything sooner than 3 days would be an unfair advantage over competition LOL. Sorry for the segway out of Repeaterland... On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 10:28 AM, skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com wrote: Reverse the logic - if it's a non-responder (no telemetry after n minutes), it shows up on the map as a customer out. OK, but it can't be practical in this application (by the sheer number of units in service) to poll individual specific locations within n-minutes... and and that amount of time is going to probably be hours at best. We currently have a Google maps-based outage tracking system that places a green dot for working modem, yellow for modem syncing and red for offline... and the update time for a specific customer location is estimated to be _ ? Since we have SNMP polling at around once a minute, along with bandwidth monitoring in place, often times we can find out about an outage before the customer can even find their phone to call us. Once a minute at a specific location? It's just another tool we use of many... I would consider it very useful... but it doesn't shorten the Bureaucracy. It still has taken 3 days for PGE to turn on the service I requested (not counting the 4 non work Sunday). I hope to have the service active when I visit the site later today... cheers, s.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Those PGE Smart Meters (again)
Missing beacons. Same way you know that your repeater is off the air (well, not that they beacon, but they are not there when you try to key them up). Although, I know many that do beacon. Or, they might have cells or capacitors that will power it long enough to say N!!! ;- This would be much like the repeater with battery backup that announces AC POWER FAIL. Joe M. skipp025 wrote: Look on the bright side: The smart meters allow the electric utility company to immediately identify a power outage and identify the areas affected, If the meter's radio data transceiver operates on electricity, which may be missing/out... how does the dead radio notify the mother ship once the supply goes away?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Those PGE Smart Meters (again)
Reverse the logic - if it's a non-responder (no telemetry after n minutes), it shows up on the map as a customer out. We currently have a Google maps-based outage tracking system that places a green dot for working modem, yellow for modem syncing and red for offline... Since we have SNMP polling at around once a minute, along with bandwidth monitoring in place, often times we can find out about an outage before the customer can even find their phone to call us. It's just another tool we use of many... On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 2:38 PM, skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com wrote: Look on the bright side: The smart meters allow the electric utility company to immediately identify a power outage and identify the areas affected, If the meter's radio data transceiver operates on electricity, which may be missing/out... how does the dead radio notify the mother ship once the supply goes away? which can drastically reduce the restoration time- especially in rural areas. With rural customers on conventional meters, some outages would last for many hours, even days, because some customers always think that someone else will call to report an outage! I would not expect the restoration times to improve, maybe the response time in some examples but probably not the majority. s.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Those PGE Smart Meters (again)
At 01:38 PM 1/11/2010, skipp025 wrote: If the meter's radio data transceiver operates on electricity, which may be missing/out... how does the dead radio notify the mother ship once the supply goes away? You'll be able to tell because that phantom signal you hear on your repeater input or an HF band will go away :-) Lem -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Those PGE Smart Meters (again)
I can already see opportunities for this smart technology to be abused. Like the meter scaling so that only half or a quarter of the power consumed is measured or drive down the street transmitting the right signal and black out a neighborhood.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Those PGE Smart Meters (again)
About as likely as someone driving down the street, transmitting on your input, and it triggering the code to shut your repeater off. At least I hope so if they've implemented even the most basic security measures such as coded access. Of course, it does introduce a new level of hacking. Joe M. DCFluX wrote: I can already see opportunities for this smart technology to be abused. Like the meter scaling so that only half or a quarter of the power consumed is measured or drive down the street transmitting the right signal and black out a neighborhood.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Those PGE Smart Meters (again)
It's quite simple: when the signal goes away, the meter must have lost power. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:39 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Those PGE Smart Meters (again) Look on the bright side: The smart meters allow the electric utility company to immediately identify a power outage and identify the areas affected, If the meter's radio data transceiver operates on electricity, which may be missing/out... how does the dead radio notify the mother ship once the supply goes away? which can drastically reduce the restoration time- especially in rural areas. With rural customers on conventional meters, some outages would last for many hours, even days, because some customers always think that someone else will call to report an outage! I would not expect the restoration times to improve, maybe the response time in some examples but probably not the majority. s.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Those PGE Smart Meters (again)
On Mon, 11 Jan 2010, Eric Lemmon wrote: It's quite simple: when the signal goes away, the meter must have lost power. When the HF bands are clear, the BPL network must be down? -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Those PGE Smart Meters (again)
At 02:51 PM 1/10/2010, kc8gpd wrote: And the Agent told me they can easily track energy consumption with time of day. i have always had a problem with this. it eventually leads prices based on the time of day you use energy. as if they don't gouge you enough already they want more for usage during certain times of the day. ---Gotta fight that bogus MMGW dontcha know...
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Those PGE Smart Meters (again)
Look on the bright side: The smart meters allow the electric utility company to immediately identify a power outage and identify the areas affected, which can drastically reduce the restoration time- especially in rural areas. With rural customers on conventional meters, some outages would last for many hours, even days, because some customers always think that someone else will call to report an outage! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kc8gpd Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:51 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Those PGE Smart Meters (again) And the Agent told me they can easily track energy consumption with time of day. i have always had a problem with this. it eventually leads prices based on the time of day you use energy. as if they don't gouge you enough already they want more for usage during certain times of the day.
