Re: [sawfish] Re: `position' in rep...?
Issue solved. Improved `position' now in rep.util.misc. SawfishConfig uses `option-index' instead. Chris
Re: [sawfish] Re: `position' in rep...?
30 minutes ago, Christopher Roy Bratusek wrote: Issue solved. Improved `position' now in rep.util.misc. SawfishConfig uses `option-index' instead. It seems that something like `option-index' doesn't belong in there, at least not with a name that makes it specific to functionality that librep doesn't do... To make it easier, here's a version that receives an optional argument which is a comparison function: (define (position item l . r) (let ((=? (if (consp r) (car r) equal))) (let loop ((slow l) (l l) (i 0)) (cond ((not (consp l)) #f) ((=? item (car l)) i) (#t (let ((l (cdr l)) (i (1+ i))) (cond ((not (consp l)) #f) ((=? item (car l)) i) ((eq l slow) #f) (#t (loop (cdr slow) (cdr l) (1+ i)) This could be use to implement the same `option-index' functionality more conveniently, but that wouldn't be great, since the comparison function needs to know that it's used with the desired item first and the list member second. A better solution is another function, which uses a predicate: (define (position-if pred l) (let loop ((slow l) (l l) (i 0)) (cond ((not (consp l)) #f) ((pred (car l)) i) (#t (let ((l (cdr l)) (i (1+ i))) (cond ((not (consp l)) #f) ((pred (car l)) i) ((eq l slow) #f) (#t (loop (cdr slow) (cdr l) (1+ i) And now `option-index' is easy to implement properly. In addition, `position' could be implemented as: (define (position item l . r) (let ((=? (if (consp r) (car r) equal))) (position-if (lambda (x) (=? item x)) l))) But my guess is that rep doesn't compile things enough and this will be slower. I don't know if that's important though -- if it is, I can rewrite both using a single macro for the searching code. -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life!
Re: [sawfish] Re: `position' in rep...?
I don't see this branch at git://git.gnome.org/sawfish That's the old GIT Repo, see Wiki (Download GIT) or http://sawfish.tuxfamily.org/ for new GIT Repo on Tuxfamily. 5 hours ago, Christopher Roy Bratusek wrote: [...] Now I've seen the problem: (a b c) Vs '(a b c) That sounds like it was a different problem... Yes, your position func works with '(a b c) lists, but SawfishConfig 'choice and 'symbol widgets produce (a b c) lists, and thus always nil is returned. check from sawfish-client: client (setq mylist (a b c)) client (position a mylist) client () ;; though that's not shown client (setq mylist '(a b c)) client (position a mylist) client 0 ;; working sorry for the confusing first mail. Chris
Re: [sawfish] Re: `position' in rep...?
n...@tuxfamily.org writes: check from sawfish-client: client (setq mylist (a b c)) This should generate an error (possibly in .xsession-errors?) and leave mylist unset, as it attempts to set mylist to the function a called with b and c. -- Jeremy Hankins no...@nowan.org
Re: [sawfish] Re: `position' in rep...?
8 hours ago, n...@tuxfamily.org wrote: I don't see this branch at git://git.gnome.org/sawfish That's the old GIT Repo, see Wiki (Download GIT) or http://sawfish.tuxfamily.org/ for new GIT Repo on Tuxfamily. Bah. Is there any reason not to make the old page point to the new one? Also, changing the wikipedia page will help getting the new one to come up higher in google results etc. Two hours ago, Jeremy Hankins wrote: n...@tuxfamily.org writes: check from sawfish-client: client (setq mylist (a b c)) This should generate an error (possibly in .xsession-errors?) and leave mylist unset, as it attempts to set mylist to the function a called with b and c. Yeah, that's something that I find very annoying with sawfish-client -- the fact that errors are sent to stderr only, and not to the client. Makes the repl much less useful. -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life!
Re: [sawfish] Re: `position' in rep...?
Am 09.06.2011 16:57, schrieb Eli Barzilay: 8 hours ago, n...@tuxfamily.org wrote: I don't see this branch at git://git.gnome.org/sawfish That's the old GIT Repo, see Wiki (Download GIT) or http://sawfish.tuxfamily.org/ for new GIT Repo on Tuxfamily. Bah. Is there any reason not to make the old page point to the new one? Also, changing the wikipedia page will help getting the new one to come up higher in google results etc. Two hours ago, Jeremy Hankins wrote: n...@tuxfamily.org writes: check from sawfish-client: client (setq mylist (a b c)) This should generate an error (possibly in .xsession-errors?) and leave mylist unset, as it attempts to set mylist to the function a called with b and c. Of course. SawfishConfig generates widget like: (choice a b c) = choice-widget (GtkComboBoxText) = option-list (a b c) Yeah, that's something that I find very annoying with sawfish-client -- the fact that errors are sent to stderr only, and not to the client. Makes the repl much less useful. I had a look recently, maybe I'll find the issue. explicitely chaning standard-error didn't help. Though scripts/sawfish-client.jl looks like it wants to output std-err ot std-out but it doesn't seem to work. Chris
Re: [sawfish] Re: `position' in rep...?
Am 09.06.2011 16:57, schrieb Eli Barzilay: 8 hours ago, n...@tuxfamily.org wrote: I don't see this branch at git://git.gnome.org/sawfish That's the old GIT Repo, see Wiki (Download GIT) or http://sawfish.tuxfamily.org/ for new GIT Repo on Tuxfamily. Bah. Is there any reason not to make the old page point to the new one? Also, changing the wikipedia page will help getting the new one to come up higher in google results etc. Wiki is still official, sawfish.tuxfamily.org is just an overview page. Both point to the new GIT and it was also announced on ML. I'm not responsible for the Wikipedia page. Two hours ago, Jeremy Hankins wrote: n...@tuxfamily.org writes: check from sawfish-client: client (setq mylist (a b c)) This should generate an error (possibly in .xsession-errors?) and leave mylist unset, as it attempts to set mylist to the function a called with b and c. Yeah, that's something that I find very annoying with sawfish-client -- the fact that errors are sent to stderr only, and not to the client. Makes the repl much less useful.
Re: [sawfish] Re: `position' in rep...?
Wiki is still official, sawfish.tuxfamily.org is just an overview page. You mean wikia, right? Yes. Both point to the new GIT No -- I started from the wikia page, then went to the dev page (http://sawfish.wikia.com/wiki/Development) and the second bullet as a link to http://git.gnome.org/browse/sawfish/tree/ChangeLog -- so if wikia is still the real page, that should change. Oh... I didn't know there's one more link. Download contains the right links: http://sawfish.wikia.com/wiki/Download#GIT and it was also announced on ML. Yeah, I was too lazy to search my old mails and just took the google route. Google... :) Chris
Re: [sawfish] Re: `position' in rep...?
15 minutes ago, Christopher Roy Bratusek wrote: No -- I started from the wikia page, then went to the dev page (http://sawfish.wikia.com/wiki/Development) and the second bullet as a link to http://git.gnome.org/browse/sawfish/tree/ChangeLog -- so if wikia is still the real page, that should change. Oh... I didn't know there's one more link. Download contains the right links: http://sawfish.wikia.com/wiki/Download#GIT Ah, so another suggestion: kill that whole section and move it to the dev page, leaving behind a pointer for download source or something like that. The thing is that people who go to a download page are very different from those who go to a dev page -- I didn't even think to look at the download page... -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life!
Re: [sawfish] Re: `position' in rep...?
Two hours ago, Jeremy Hankins wrote: n...@tuxfamily.org writes: check from sawfish-client: client (setq mylist (a b c)) This should generate an error (possibly in .xsession-errors?) and leave mylist unset, as it attempts to set mylist to the function a called with b and c. Yeah, that's something that I find very annoying with sawfish-client -- the fact that errors are sent to stderr only, and not to the client. Makes the repl much less useful. In fact the first time it works: sawfish-client -f restart sawfish-client client s (You're accessing an undefined variable or function `s') client s client Hmm... Chris
Re: [sawfish] Re: `position' in rep...?
Am 07.06.2011 23:37, schrieb Eli Barzilay: Three hours ago, Christopher Roy Bratusek wrote: Again learned something :) Still, your new version of `position' breaks SawfishConfig (in misc-1.9). If by your version you mean the one I wrote, then please tell me how it breaks. It's been a while since I wrote sawfish code so it's likely that I made some stupid mistake. (The method itself is valid, and well used, that shouldn't be a problem.) Well, assume this: sawfish-client (setq mylist '(Crux StyleTab MXFlat)) (position Crux mylist) 0 works. Now in SawfishConfig this code is used (with different variable-names): (gtk-combo-box-text-set-active widget (position value list)) widget is a GtkComboBoxText widget, value the usergiven (or fallback) value of the setting represented by the widget (eg. frame-style), list is the list given as options (see any 'choice or 'symbol defcustom in Sawfish). A GtkComboBoxText expects the index-number not the text, so position is used to return it, with your version of position we get: *** Bad argument: #subr gtk-combo-box-set-active, (), 2 so either position returns nothing or not an integer. As I now got the time to test, I'll continue now: New line of code before setting position: write standard-output (format nil *** value is: %d x) *** value is: #non-number Againg with %s instead: value is: flip-viewport ? from SawfishConfig it returns the value instead of the index-number. corresponding code resides in sawfish.gtk.widget (choice and symbol widgets), in misc-1.9 branch. Regards, Chris
Re: [sawfish] Re: `position' in rep...?
6 hours ago, Christopher Roy Bratusek wrote: Now in SawfishConfig this code is used (with different variable-names): (gtk-combo-box-text-set-active widget (position value list)) [...] A GtkComboBoxText expects the index-number not the text, so position is used to return it, with your version of position we get: *** Bad argument: #subr gtk-combo-box-set-active, (), 2 Yes, if the value is not found, it returns false, which in rep is the empty list. If you can't rely on the value being found, then just protect the use, either with a default: (gtk-combo-box-text-set-active widget (or (position value list) 0)) or by just not doing it: (let ((i (position value list))) (when i (gtk-combo-box-text-set-active widget i))) [...] corresponding code resides in sawfish.gtk.widget (choice and symbol widgets), in misc-1.9 branch. I don't see this branch at git://git.gnome.org/sawfish 5 hours ago, Christopher Roy Bratusek wrote: [...] Now I've seen the problem: (a b c) Vs '(a b c) That sounds like it was a different problem... -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life!
Re: [sawfish] Re: `position' in rep...?
Eli Barzilay e...@barzilay.org writes: 9 hours ago, Jeremy Hankins wrote: I wrote a version of the position function that would work with circular lists, since the other one will start an infinite loop if you give it a circular list. That code is broken, as Timo points out. See correct version below. Yes, of course. Thank you and Timo for explaining it. I've included the function below, but it turns out that infinite lists are only semi-supported -- calling length, or even evaluating them in sawfish-client, causes an infinite loop. According to the docs (where I should have looked first) only cons, car, cdr, rplaca, rplacd, nth, and nthcdr can be used on circular lists. That's a bad state. It means that doing some naive experimenting can easily get your WM to die. (And dynamic experimenting is one of sawfish's great advantages.) Having killed my wm several times when experimenting with this, I can certainly agree. The contra position is that few people who don't have at least some understanding of what they're doing are going to generate a circular list, but it does seem to me that where we can eliminate the possibility of crashing your wm we should. In short: I don't know that it's worth it to fix it elsewhere, even if we end up staying with rep, [...] The repl getting hung up is especially disturbing, and shouldn't be hard to fix. Other functions can trip into an infinite loop but at least they're easier to break. I say I don't know because I don't know how involved the changes to librep that would fix this would have to be. And if we are going to switch away from rep at some point it may not be worth the effort to go through and make the fixes, as well as possibly fixing bugs that crop up elsewhere as a result of the fixes -- though I wouldn't expect many of these. As I see it this is a reasonably compelling reason to switch to a lisp that's not specific to sawfish: more use-cases means more testing and fewer gotchas like this one. I've been ambivalent on the issue before, but this has made me rethink my view. [Interesting discussion of the right way to write 'position' snipped] -- Jeremy Hankins no...@nowan.org
Re: [sawfish] Re: `position' in rep...?
Three hours ago, Christopher Roy Bratusek wrote: Again learned something :) Still, your new version of `position' breaks SawfishConfig (in misc-1.9). If by your version you mean the one I wrote, then please tell me how it breaks. It's been a while since I wrote sawfish code so it's likely that I made some stupid mistake. (The method itself is valid, and well used, that shouldn't be a problem.) -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life!
Re: [sawfish] Re: `position' in rep...?
9 hours ago, Jeremy Hankins wrote: I say I don't know because I don't know how involved the changes to librep that would fix this would have to be. The simplest thing to do when printing out a list is to use the same trick and just abort with an error message, or print `...' when you get back to the slow pointer. A more sophisicated solution would be to do the popular Lisp printout using `#1='s and `#1#'s, but that's arguably an overkill. As I see it this is a reasonably compelling reason to switch to a lisp that's not specific to sawfish: more use-cases means more testing and fewer gotchas like this one. I've been ambivalent on the issue before, but this has made me rethink my view. +1. -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life!
Re: `position' in rep...?
I wrote a version of the position function that would work with circular lists, since the other one will start an infinite loop if you give it a circular list. I've included the function below, but it turns out that infinite lists are only semi-supported -- calling length, or even evaluating them in sawfish-client, causes an infinite loop. According to the docs (where I should have looked first) only cons, car, cdr, rplaca, rplacd, nth, and nthcdr can be used on circular lists. In short: I don't know that it's worth it to fix it elsewhere, even if we end up staying with rep, but if it's of any interest here's a version of position that wont choke on infinite lists. (define (position item l) (let ((start l)) (let loop ((rest l) (i 0)) (if (equal item (car rest)) i (unless (or (null rest) (and (/= 0 i) (eq rest start))) (loop (cdr rest) (1+ i))) -- Jeremy Hankins no...@nowan.org
Re: `position' in rep...?
On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:24:27 +0200, Christopher Roy Bratusek wrote: Including [position] in sawfish.gtk.widgets should be enough. Please put it in librep. OK. There's now rep.util.misc which atm contains string-symbol and position It's not pushed yet, (only the changelog) but before you do, let me comment a bit. string-symbol: `intern' may be what you want. position: If it's only what you want, (= if string-symbol turns out to be unnecessary) than you can put it in rep/data.jl. Then all you have to import is 'rep'. In another words, you don't have to import any extra module, since it's always loaded. Don't forget to add it to 'export-bindings'. Teika (Teika kazura)
Re: `position' in rep...?
Am 04.06.2011 09:26, schrieb Teika Kazura: On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:24:27 +0200, Christopher Roy Bratusek wrote: Including [position] in sawfish.gtk.widgets should be enough. Please put it in librep. OK. There's now rep.util.misc which atm contains string-symbol and position It's not pushed yet, (only the changelog) but before you do, let me comment a bit. string-symbol: `intern' may be what you want. I know and at first I thought as you, that it's unnecessary, but I thought about the wording, in some cases, eg: in SawfishConfig -just as I did recently- string-symbol is way more intuitive compared to intern. (of course it's the same, but then you read `intern' you think about some internal symbol, not a conversion). So I thought that 1 line extra-code won't hurt that much :) position: If it's only what you want, (= if string-symbol turns out to be unnecessary) than you can put it in rep/data.jl. Then all you have to import is 'rep'. In another words, you don't have to import any extra module, since it's always loaded. Don't forget to add it to 'export-bindings'. There's already one more I found which is spread several times of Sawfish 3 or 4: beautify-symbol-name, (if I'm right beautfiy-keymap-name is just a minor variation of it) and I think it should be in REP. Teika (Teika kazura) Chris
Re: `position' in rep...?
On Sun, 29 May 2011 16:47:07 +0200, Christopher Roy Bratusek wrote: Including [position] in sawfish.gtk.widgets should be enough. Please put it in librep. There're too many wm.misc functions which should have been put in librep. Regards, Teika (Teika kazura) # Installed sawfish-1.8.90. Thanks.
Re: `position' in rep...?
Christopher Roy Bratusek n...@tuxfamily.org writes: just a small question, whether I'm blind, or whether rep really doesn't ship a function like `position'. so `nth' gives the the value of the nth element: (setq mylist '(Crux StyleTab get-S-tabbed)) (nth 1 mylist) = StyleTab but now for the opposite? other lisps do ship `position': (position Crux mylist) = 0 Now it seems to me that REP does not ship a position function? Atleast I couldn't find one in the docs neither via `git grep'. I think that's essential, so I'm sure it's somewhere. Or... did John expect everyone to loop through lists? I don't know of such a thing, but how often would you really need to know the position of an element? In most cases I can think of where you might use a position member would do what you need without the use of a position. -- Jeremy Hankins no...@nowan.org
Re: `position' in rep...?
Am 29.05.2011 16:03, schrieb Jeremy Hankins: Christopher Roy Bratusekn...@tuxfamily.org writes: just a small question, whether I'm blind, or whether rep really doesn't ship a function like `position'. so `nth' gives the the value of the nth element: (setq mylist '(Crux StyleTab get-S-tabbed)) (nth 1 mylist) = StyleTab but now for the opposite? other lisps do ship `position': (position Crux mylist) = 0 Now it seems to me that REP does not ship a position function? Atleast I couldn't find one in the docs neither via `git grep'. I think that's essential, so I'm sure it's somewhere. Or... did John expect everyone to loop through lists? I don't know of such a thing, but how often would you really need to know the position of an element? In most cases I can think of where you might use a position member would do what you need without the use of a position. You would need it for every GtkComboBox in SawfishConfig, to set the initial value, to what the user previously selected (or to what the default value is). Chris
Re: `position' in rep...?
Am 29.05.2011 16:40, schrieb Jeremy Hankins: Christopher Roy Bratusekn...@tuxfamily.org writes: You would need it for every GtkComboBox in SawfishConfig, to set the initial value, to what the user previously selected (or to what the default value is). Ah, ok. Then yeah, I think you are supposed to loop through. ;) I'm not sure that rep really needs a position function -- in most cases it's just going to encourage non-lispy lisp programming, I think. In those situations where you need one just include something like this: Including it in sawfish.gtk.widgets should be enough. I just wondered, why other LISP (Emacs/Common-Lisp) do have one, but we don't. ;) Chris
