Re: [Spacewalk-devel] dojo - javascript framework
On 06/20/2011 07:51 PM, Shannon Hughes wrote: - it is not in Fedora :) don't see the downside of jquery not being in Fedora. This is javascript you have to set in your public web area anyway. jQuery does not need to be packaged. For public websites you can Advantages of jQuery? 1) It defines more a way to use javascript than a library itself. This means there is a full ecosystem built on top. For example, something equivalent to dojo: http://jqueryui.com The best part is that all jQuery based libraries feel the same, and it is easy to create your own extensions. 2) It is Unobtrusive JavaScript * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtrusive_JavaScript You don't have much javascript in the page itself, but you just give the elements the correct ids or classes and then enhance them, eg: input class=date... and then in some include you do: $(.date).datepicker() And all those inputs get a widget with a datepicker. But if not, the fallback is the input field it was there from the beginning. Same with tabs, you just make some divs with the right ids, and then you tab-ify them by appliying some method on a selector (ids, classes or more complex). 3) It is far more popular than any competition: 41% of the 1 most visited websites. That speaks for its community too. I like jQuery a lot. I would however use it as a resort to Ajaxify current webpages. As it is unobtrusive, it can be done without touching the templates too much, except for adding classes and ids. For more complex user interfaces, I would go for the combination of GWT/Vaadin. Javascript is cool, but is like the assembler of the browser machine. Assembler was cool back then, but today most people use higher level models. -- Duncan Mac-Vicar P. - Novell® Making IT Work As One™ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany ___ Spacewalk-devel mailing list Spacewalk-devel@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/spacewalk-devel
Re: [Spacewalk-devel] dojo - javascript framework
On 06/22/2011 09:56 AM, Duncan Mac-Vicar P. wrote: jQuery does not need to be packaged. For public websites you can ... link it directly from google's CDN. http://code.google.com/apis/libraries/ -- Duncan Mac-Vicar P. - Novell® Making IT Work As One™ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany ___ Spacewalk-devel mailing list Spacewalk-devel@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/spacewalk-devel
Re: [Spacewalk-devel] dojo - javascript framework
On 06/22/2011 11:55 AM, Miroslav Suchý wrote: Which unfortunately does not apply for Spacewalk, as it can be disconnected. I know. Also another cool extension of jquery is jquery mobile. If you follow some conventions you can unobtrusively adapt an user interface for mobile usage: http://jquerymobile.com -- Duncan Mac-Vicar P. - Novell® Making IT Work As One™ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany ___ Spacewalk-devel mailing list Spacewalk-devel@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/spacewalk-devel
Re: [Spacewalk-devel] dojo - javascript framework
Hi! Guys, since there are started talks about ajaxificationized beautification :) then I would like to say that actually at SUSE we are now doing completely other way and I would like to explain what, how and why. Because of the nature of the SUSE, we have a lot of our own specific parts that needs to be integrated with a Spacewalk. This leads to a need of more modular architecture that needs to be even more flexible. Hence of the above, we decided to develop in the way Portlets are done, where the applications are residing in a parallel to the main app (Spacewalk in this case) and are just embedded into the main UI. This will allow us go away from Struts in general and also avoid a lot of unnecessary code. That said, every add-on we do, will be served as a separated application, the very similar way how Portlets are working. Now, to do this, we've decided to use Google Web Toolkit with a conjunction of Vaadin (server-side) framework. This gives us: - Homogeneous environment. All code is written in Java (no more JavaScript and XML). - Much simpler architecture. - Up to 70% coding reduction. - Full-blown Java. And it is not just a subset of Java, as in case of a pure GWT. - Ability to use jQuery or Dojo or other stuff, if we ever would need them at all. There are many various discussions about how good/bad GWT is, but we weighted all the tradeoffs, pros and cons, we were looking at other stuff, like Wicket or ZK and even OpenLaszlo, as well as ExtGWT or SmartGWT but we are convinced that GWT with Vaadin is the very way we will go with. Hence we are going to package GWT with Vaadin and ship it with our SUSE Manager. We understand that this is a very radical change and very different from where Spacewalk is right now. We also understand that lots of people might not like this and prefer to stay with old traditional way. But at the same time we strive to achieve best user experience as well as simpler maintainability along with many other goals. If somebody in a Spacewalk community is interested to try it out, the best place to attack is to port all the Perl-based user interface and get rid of that PXT session thing as a whole (and probably from the whole Perl itself as well). Vaadin: https://vaadin.com/ Demo: http://demo.vaadin.com/sampler Add-ons (if you think the standard lib is not enough for you): https://vaadin.com/directory Quick start: https://vaadin.com/learn 10 minutes tutorial: https://vaadin.com/tutorial Documentation: https://vaadin.com/book * * * Now, as of Dojo discussion, at SUSE we would vote for jQuery instead. Taking $FOO is in $DISTRO is, of course, a plus, but this is plus for a Fedora Linux distribution, but is not a value of a specific library itself. Take care. :) -- Bo SUSE LINUX Products GmbH On 06/20/2011 05:33 PM, Miroslav Suchý wrote: I know that we thought about using javascripts tabs in webui... Well if somebody want to work on that, I announce you that dojo [1] framework is now part of Fedora and EPEL (I done the review). I encourage you to use it. It has two plus: a) it is the only one js toolkit in Fedora b) it is the fastest one from all existing toolkits [2] (ehm, sometimes second fastest). [1] http://dojotoolkit.org/ [2] http://dante.dojotoolkit.org/taskspeed/# ___ Spacewalk-devel mailing list Spacewalk-devel@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/spacewalk-devel
Re: [Spacewalk-devel] dojo - javascript framework
On 06/21/2011 03:33 PM, Bo Maryniuk wrote: There are many various discussions about how good/bad GWT is, but we weighted all the tradeoffs, pros and cons, we were looking at other stuff, like Wicket or ZK and even OpenLaszlo, as well as ExtGWT or SmartGWT but we are convinced that GWT with Vaadin is the very way we will go with. Can you share with us the pro and cons? It all sounds interesting to me. Hence we are going to package GWT with Vaadin and ship it with our SUSE Manager. Any chance to see that back in Spacewalk? -- Miroslav Suchy Red Hat Satellite Engineering ___ Spacewalk-devel mailing list Spacewalk-devel@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/spacewalk-devel
Re: [Spacewalk-devel] dojo - javascript framework
On 06/20/2011 11:33 AM, Miroslav Suchý wrote: I know that we thought about using javascripts tabs in webui... Well if somebody want to work on that, I announce you that dojo [1] framework is now part of Fedora and EPEL (I done the review). I encourage you to use it. It has two plus: a) it is the only one js toolkit in Fedora b) it is the fastest one from all existing toolkits [2] (ehm, sometimes second fastest). [1] http://dojotoolkit.org/ [2] http://dante.dojotoolkit.org/taskspeed/# did you get a chance to look at jquery 1.5.x? the ones being tested in that 2nd link are old. ___ Spacewalk-devel mailing list Spacewalk-devel@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/spacewalk-devel
Re: [Spacewalk-devel] dojo - javascript framework
On 06/20/2011 05:40 PM, Shannon Hughes wrote: did you get a chance to look at jquery 1.5.x? the ones being tested in that 2nd link are old. No. But from quick glance it has two cons: - less features (e.g. I really miss ComboBox and Charting) - it is not in Fedora :) But I'm open minded. Do you use jquery? Does it have some advances over Dojo? -- Miroslav Suchy Red Hat Satellite Engineering ___ Spacewalk-devel mailing list Spacewalk-devel@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/spacewalk-devel
Re: [Spacewalk-devel] dojo - javascript framework
On 06/20/2011 12:31 PM, Miroslav Suchý wrote: On 06/20/2011 05:40 PM, Shannon Hughes wrote: did you get a chance to look at jquery 1.5.x? the ones being tested in that 2nd link are old. No. But from quick glance it has two cons: - less features (e.g. I really miss ComboBox and Charting) jquery is setup to be modular with plugins so you can keep your install very customized. jquery autocomplete plugin could be your combobox. - it is not in Fedora :) don't see the downside of jquery not being in Fedora. This is javascript you have to set in your public web area anyway. But I'm open minded. Do you use jquery? Does it have some advances over Dojo? We are using jquery in katello. I will be honest and admit I was never really a javascript fan until I learned jquery. Jquery allowed me to focus on developing pages vs fighting cross brower support issues and keeps the code minimal and syntax is easy to pick up. ___ Spacewalk-devel mailing list Spacewalk-devel@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/spacewalk-devel
