Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine
Dear Doug The best way to solve a problem is to eliminate it in the first place. These folks have found a way to eliminate most of the need for fuel sizing. Looks like they could burn kill dried wood without the need for blocking, splitting, or chipping. It is sort of like an oversized Rocket Type stove. http://www.gizmag.com/spruce-stove-log/29863/ Kevin - Original Message - From: Doug doug.willi...@orcon.net.nz To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification gasificat...@lists.bioenergylists.org Cc: Jason ureped...@gmail.com; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine Hi Jason, All I have done is to show a simple concept of using a disc blade to offer it's rural application any need of sophisticated sharpening. Your idea is quite practical, and I have made many foot operated mechanical fabrications over the years. It should be simple enough to use a pipe U-shape for a pedal with vertical connection to the lever. The body would just be turned around so that the scraper blade handle faces the operator. This is a concept that could be extended in many ways depending on the needs and ability of the user, so all ideas will formulate from who and where these things might be used. Mine will evolve to make it easy to put away when not in use, but any visitors wanting to talk about gasification will have to give me a morning on the end of that lever(:-) Doug Williams, Fluidyne. On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:56:55 +1300 Jason ureped...@gmail.com wrote: Doug, would your design objective make it feasible to make that cutter foot operated with a return spring? Closest thing I can find with a short search is a foot operated grommet press. http://navyaviation.tpub.com/14218/css/14218_230.htm Jason ___ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ ___ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine
Just the thing for the living area. :-/ Tom -Original Message- From: Gasification [mailto:gasification-boun...@lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 6:26 AM To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves Subject: Re: [Gasification] [Stoves] Mk2 Chip Guillotine Dear Doug The best way to solve a problem is to eliminate it in the first place. These folks have found a way to eliminate most of the need for fuel sizing. Looks like they could burn kill dried wood without the need for blocking, splitting, or chipping. It is sort of like an oversized Rocket Type stove. http://www.gizmag.com/spruce-stove-log/29863/ Kevin ___ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine
Dear Doug - Original Message - From: Doug doug.willi...@orcon.net.nz Hi Kevin, I love the idea of having actually dry logs to burn. Ours remain wet until they rot, probably because we have no really cold snow season. # Our standing deadwood seems to dry out well. What did catch my eye, is the Iris opening device. I have never made anything like this, so does anyone have a reference site that I can study? I haven't seen any plans on how to build one, but for starters, if you had an old camera, ready for discard, you could take it apart carefully, to see the principles of operation. My chip guillotine is now completed as required by myself as you can see from this mornings photo, so next job is the drawing(:-) # It is a lovely piece of workmanship, and the Fluidine Colours add greatly to the professionalism of the build. Best wishes, Kevin Doug Williams, Fluidyne. On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 10:25:58 -0400 Kevin kchish...@ca.inter.net wrote: Dear Doug The best way to solve a problem is to eliminate it in the first place. These folks have found a way to eliminate most of the need for fuel sizing. Looks like they could burn kill dried wood without the need for blocking, splitting, or chipping. It is sort of like an oversized Rocket Type stove. http://www.gizmag.com/spruce-stove-log/29863/ Kevin ___ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine
Dear Darius and Kevin and All (but not Andrew in the UK!) This is an ideal application for low grade solar. A Canadian farmer John Currelley, now in Haiti for many years, built a south-facing solar collector on the metal storage silo (not a particularly big one) in which he kept his maize harvest. This was simply a plastic covered gap mounted over the black-painted corrugated metal silo that heated air rising inside the gap and allowed it to enter the maize bin at the top and exit at the back. He said it reduced the cost of frying by 40%. It was cheap, homemade and effective. Of course it won't work if your climate tends to the grey, overcast and gloomy wet misery of where was that? Regards Crispin ___ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine
Hi Darius and Colleagues, How are you drying the chip the chip at this time, even if it is slow? I have been working up a concept for many years to dry chips, and one of the mental tricks I use is to change all the numbers involved, and break them down into a physical measurement of chip volumes. I guess your day is an 8 hour unit, and not 24, so your 10 ton at say (roughly) @ 4 M3/T = a flow rate of about 1,250 ltrs/hr = 20 ltrs/min, in physical volume, that is only 4 buckets/min. (bucket defined as a 20 ltr or 5 gallon container). I used to dry 20 ltrs of chips for trial in an old tumble close dryer, and was surprised at how well this worked, and could see that a multi pass rotary system had considerable potential. This would be a series of large diameter tubes inside each other on a adjustable incline. The chip enters say the outer at the bottom, tumbles to the top dropping into the next tube, then drops back tumbling to the bottom, then into the next tube an up again in a series of zig-zags. Spacer plates along the tubes act as spiral paddles so the chip can be carried evenly around the tube and not just sit in the bottom as a slug. Lengths of the rotary tube need some thought relating to how much time it takes for the chip to heat right through at X temperature. The variation of chip sizes will see the smaller dryer chip travel faster, so a degree of risk from over heating is controlled. With this in mind, the velocity of the air flow rate through the final chip tube will have relevance to the tube sizing so nothing is going to be small in size. How the hot air might be introduce and discharged is a key question, but there might be some merit for the hot entry to be at a sealed discharge end with a simple flap or rotary valve system for the chip exit. The hottest air will finish the chip on it's last pass, and the very humid hot air exits through the wet incoming chip. Doing it this way, the fastest moving dry chip has the least amount of time in the hottest air flow with less risk of spontaneous combustion. This is a mental concept, and can now be pulled to bits by anyone who already knows why it cannot work(:-) Doug Williams, Fluidyne. On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 07:00:57 +0700 darius_tamizi darius_tam...@hotmail.com wrote: Dear Doug, Kevin, We need to dry 10ton of wood chip daily (all kind of tropical wood). We can burn Bark, sawdust and biochar as the heat source. Today we are using waste heat from the gasifier for drying the woodChip. For drying 1ton of woodchip from 25% to 20% we need 4-8 hours with the system. It is too slow. Regards, Darius ___ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine
Dear Darius Firstly, I am assuming that you are measuring moisture % on the Wet basis., ie, 1000 kg of wet wood would have 250/1000 = 25% moisture content Wet basis, WB, or 250 kG of water content. If you dry to 20% moisture content WB, you will have a final moisture content of .20 x 1000 = 200 kG water. You thus have to remove 250 - 200 = 50 kG water per tonne dried from 25% moisture WB to 20% moisture WB. Each kG of water that you remove will probably need in the order of 1.2 kw-hr of thermal energy per kG of water boiled off . A tonne of wood feed at 25% moisture would need about 50x1.2 = 60 kw-hr to remove the required water from one tonne of wood feed. The wood will come out hot also... 950 kg of wood raised from say 20 C to 80 C would need about 23 kw-hr of heat energy to raise the temperature of the wood. Total would be about 85 kw-hr per tonne of wood feed. 10 tonnes would thus require about 850 kw-hr of input energy. For simplicity, assume that ambient air is 100% saturated. Say tropic conditions of 30 C and 100% RH. 850 kw-hr of thermal energy could be attained from wood that was burned at 80% efficiency; in this case input energy would have to be about 850/.8 = 1063 kw-hr of input energy. If the input wood had a moisture content of say 30%, then its heat content per pound of as received sawdust and bark would be about 14 MJ/kG, or 3.9 kw-hr per kg, indicating that you would have to burn about 850/3.9 = 218 kG of wood over the drying period. If you operated for 8 hours per day, you would need to burn about 27.24 kg of wood fuel per hour say about 30 kg/hr. I would suggest that you take the flue gases and mix with ambient air, to have a delivery temperature of about 100 C, and blow it into your drier system. You have to be careful that you don't draw sparks from your combustion system, that could set your drying wood on fire. At this point, you have adequate hot air to dry your wood chips. You could dry the feed from the chipper at say 10 Tonnes per hour, or you could pre-screen the chips, so that you only dried the chips that were sized to the desired final size range. Best wishes, Kevin Chisholm - Original Message - From: darius_tamizi To: Doug Cc: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification ; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine Dear Doug, Kevin, We need to dry 10ton of wood chip daily (all kind of tropical wood). We can burn Bark, sawdust and biochar as the heat source. Today we are using waste heat from the gasifier for drying the woodChip. For drying 1ton of woodchip from 25% to 20% we need 4-8 hours with the system. It is too slow. Regards, Darius Terkirim dari Samsung Mobile Original message From: Doug doug.willi...@orcon.net.nz Date: 24/01/2014 14:26 (GMT+07:00) To: darius_tamizi darius_tam...@hotmail.com Cc: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification gasificat...@lists.bioenergylists.org,Discussion of biomass cooking stoves stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org Subject: Re: [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine Darius, You are a man of few words, or do they charge by the word for your phone(:-) What quantity are you talking about? Biomass type wood/bamboo/brush wood,etc. Do you have any heat available? How do you currently dry chips? Scale is every thing, so simple cheap answers may not be available. Doug. On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 12:44:52 +0700 darius_tamizi darius_tam...@hotmail.com wrote: Dear Doug, The humidity here is 80% and more. Darius -- ___ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address gasificat...@bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ ___ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine
Dear Darius Both temperature and relative humidity are important when drying wood. With the same air flow, you can dry wood just as quickly with 80 Degree F air and 80% RH, as you can with 60 Degree F air and 60% RH. Best wishes, Kevin - Original Message - From: darius_tamizi To: Doug ; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis andgasification Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 1:44 AM Subject: Re: [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine Dear Doug, The humidity here is 80% and more. Darius Terkirim dari Samsung Mobile Original message From: Doug doug.willi...@orcon.net.nz Date: 24/01/2014 10:50 (GMT+07:00) To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification gasificat...@lists.bioenergylists.org Cc: darius_tamizi darius_tam...@hotmail.com,Discussion of biomass cooking stoves stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org Subject: Re: [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine Darius, It depends on where you are located due to climatic conditions. We found that just by blowing cold air up though the pile using perforated agricultural drainage pipe in the UK was enough to stop the rapid composting effect caused by the green pile heating. This was in the UK with coppiced willow, and the first time I saw fresh chip steaming as it came in off the fields in the very cold rain. You would have to offer more info if you want other suggestions. Doug Williams, Fluidyne. On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 10:43:01 +0700 darius_tamizi darius_tam...@hotmail.com wrote: Making wood chip is one issue. Drying the wood chip is another important issue. Any idea how to dry woodchip efficently? Terkirim dari Samsung Mobile -- ___ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address gasificat...@bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ ___ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine
I love watching you guys work! Junk yards are not trash heaps but gold mines! M Trevor Marshall Islands Hi Jason and Colleagues, Having started this thing, thought I had better try out your idea. I had reservations about the leverage which proved to be right, as the foot push ends up taking a lot more effort. The disc blade has to drop 4 and in doing so, the link point moves out 2. Given time and some $$, I thing the best solution for the actuation would be an air cylinder with a 5 port valve control if you needed to process large amounts of specifically sized fuel. Of course you could also use a crank and fly wheel. It's amazing what you can find quite usable in scrap yards. Doug Williams, Fluidyne. On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:56:55 +1300 Jason ureped...@gmail.com wrote: Doug, would your design objective make it feasible to make that cutter foot operated with a return spring? Closest thing I can find with a short search is a foot operated grommet press. http://navyaviation.tpub.com/14218/css/14218_230.htm Jason ___ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine
Darius, It depends on where you are located due to climatic conditions. We found that just by blowing cold air up though the pile using perforated agricultural drainage pipe in the UK was enough to stop the rapid composting effect caused by the green pile heating. This was in the UK with coppiced willow, and the first time I saw fresh chip steaming as it came in off the fields in the very cold rain. You would have to offer more info if you want other suggestions. Doug Williams, Fluidyne. On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 10:43:01 +0700 darius_tamizi darius_tam...@hotmail.com wrote: Making wood chip is one issue. Drying the wood chip is another important issue. Any idea how to dry woodchip efficently? Terkirim dari Samsung Mobile ___ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine
Darius, You are a man of few words, or do they charge by the word for your phone(:-) What quantity are you talking about? Biomass type wood/bamboo/brush wood,etc. Do you have any heat available? How do you currently dry chips? Scale is every thing, so simple cheap answers may not be available. Doug. On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 12:44:52 +0700 darius_tamizi darius_tam...@hotmail.com wrote: Dear Doug, The humidity here is 80% and more. Darius ___ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine
Doug, would your design objective make it feasible to make that cutter foot operated with a return spring? Closest thing I can find with a short search is a foot operated grommet press. http://navyaviation.tpub.com/14218/css/14218_230.htm Jason On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Doug doug.willi...@orcon.net.nz wrote: Hi Paul and Colleagues, I managed to get back to the job quicker than I thought possible, thanks to the awful weather we are experiencing at the moment. A redesign of the side plates from open jaws to hole (2.5) now provides a fully supported disc blade that can only slide past the cutting edges without touching. This gives a really clean cut as you can see in the photos. The stick is a poplar pole with a maximum diameter at the cut of 1.3/8, so a useful size that can handle most forms of small round biomass. For my own purposes, I will be cutting as many differing species during this Summer as I can find, as I am studying these fuels in the gasifier to establish how the char evolution differ. I will write up some comments and do a drawing for the Fluidyne Archive, and you can take it or leave it as the needs determine. Hope this helps. Doug Williams, Fluidyne. ___ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address gasificat...@bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ ___ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine
Dear Jason A common enough machine with the right blade support is a sheet metal treadle operate notcher. This machine is normally manually operated even in large workshops. Here is one From http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=treadle+notcher+sheet+metal http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=treadle+notcher+sheet+metalqpvt=treadl e+notcher+sheet+metalFORM=IGRE#a qpvt=treadle+notcher+sheet+metalFORM=IGRE#a Doug: I am really interested to know if the angle at which you hold the wood makes much of a difference to the required shearing force. I understand from the photos you sent that holding the wood to the side is 'on an angle' but I was thinking of it being held up so the blade cut into the fibres more like someone whittling wood with a penknife slanted downwards. Assuming the feed-in side is well supported (not sure about the offcut side) is there a reduction in force needed when the blade is diagonally as see from the side? At some angle the wood would tend to split into 2 or more pieces as the cut continued. That might be helpful to some. Thanks Crispin Doug, would your design objective make it feasible to make that cutter foot operated with a return spring? Closest thing I can find with a short search is a foot operated grommet press. http://navyaviation.tpub.com/14218/css/14218_230.htm Jason image001.png___ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Mk2 Chip Guillotine
Hi Jason, All I have done is to show a simple concept of using a disc blade to offer it's rural application any need of sophisticated sharpening. Your idea is quite practical, and I have made many foot operated mechanical fabrications over the years. It should be simple enough to use a pipe U-shape for a pedal with vertical connection to the lever. The body would just be turned around so that the scraper blade handle faces the operator. This is a concept that could be extended in many ways depending on the needs and ability of the user, so all ideas will formulate from who and where these things might be used. Mine will evolve to make it easy to put away when not in use, but any visitors wanting to talk about gasification will have to give me a morning on the end of that lever(:-) Doug Williams, Fluidyne. On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:56:55 +1300 Jason ureped...@gmail.com wrote: Doug, would your design objective make it feasible to make that cutter foot operated with a return spring? Closest thing I can find with a short search is a foot operated grommet press. http://navyaviation.tpub.com/14218/css/14218_230.htm Jason ___ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
