Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:32:34PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi Christian, Hi Chris--to address scalability we have a list view from which you can select favorite activities to go in the ring. This is a similar technique to the OSX dock or Windows taskbar. I don't think this is working out. For OLPC (and perhaps SoaS as well?) we're shipping with every activity other than Log and Terminal favorited by default, after receiving reports that kids didn't understand how to launch activities otherwise. Here is a tighter spiral of 74 icons for the home view (running in the Sugar emulator at 800x600). http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/f/f0/Spiral-home-view.png +1 Thanks, - Chris. -walter Martin pgpgxQ7sfuPdl.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 11:39, Martin Dengler mar...@martindengler.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:32:34PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi Christian, Hi Chris--to address scalability we have a list view from which you can select favorite activities to go in the ring. This is a similar technique to the OSX dock or Windows taskbar. I don't think this is working out. For OLPC (and perhaps SoaS as well?) we're shipping with every activity other than Log and Terminal favorited by default, after receiving reports that kids didn't understand how to launch activities otherwise. Here is a tighter spiral of 74 icons for the home view (running in the Sugar emulator at 800x600). http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/f/f0/Spiral-home-view.png +1 Sorry if this has already been considered, but maybe the favorites view should only contain the few most used activities and the rest can be launched from the list view? If this is not viable for some reason, maybe we need to fix or remove the list view? Regards, Tomeu Thanks, - Chris. -walter Martin ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 11:39, Martin Dengler mar...@martindengler.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:32:34PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi Christian, Hi Chris--to address scalability we have a list view from which you can select favorite activities to go in the ring. This is a similar technique to the OSX dock or Windows taskbar. I don't think this is working out. For OLPC (and perhaps SoaS as well?) we're shipping with every activity other than Log and Terminal favorited by default, after receiving reports that kids didn't understand how to launch activities otherwise. Here is a tighter spiral of 74 icons for the home view (running in the Sugar emulator at 800x600). http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/f/f0/Spiral-home-view.png +1 Sorry if this has already been considered, but maybe the favorites view should only contain the few most used activities and the rest can be launched from the list view? If this is not viable for some reason, maybe we need to fix or remove the list view? Well, I think we are bumping up against three orthogonal issues here: (1) how to make the Home View support more icons (without needing to scroll or pan -- we saw problems with that in the original donut view and still see it with the control panel -- this is the goal of the spiral. (The suggestion to shrink icons down to a pixel is a nice one, but rapidly degrades into something unusable in IMHO and requires yet another UI affordance: magnify. I think we can avoid such complexity for quite some time yet.) (2) the list view is intended to organize which icons are available on the home view and to access infrequently used icons. It also gives the user info re which version of an activity is installed. The current design causes confusion with the Journal and has very limited capability relative to the cost of supporting an alternative view. I would vote to move this functionality to the Journal: starred activities (items) show up on the Home View. But this is a seemingly wholly separate topic from #1. (3) even with the above resolved, we have arguably too little control over the home view, both in terns of what appears -- several requests have been made for the ability to have views of multiple collections: e.g., school view, home view, etc. and the ability to customize (as the Random View currently supports). (Also, there is often a request for a background image for the Home View.) All of these are features that could be added incrementally, preferably after we settle item #2. (My favorite solution for collections is to allow multiple stars, like in gmail.) -walter Regards, Tomeu Thanks, - Chris. -walter Martin ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
Hi Walter, On 3 Aug 2010, at 11:39, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 11:39, Martin Dengler mar...@martindengler.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:32:34PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi Christian, Hi Chris--to address scalability we have a list view from which you can select favorite activities to go in the ring. This is a similar technique to the OSX dock or Windows taskbar. I don't think this is working out. For OLPC (and perhaps SoaS as well?) we're shipping with every activity other than Log and Terminal favorited by default, after receiving reports that kids didn't understand how to launch activities otherwise. Here is a tighter spiral of 74 icons for the home view (running in the Sugar emulator at 800x600). http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/f/f0/Spiral-home-view.png +1 Sorry if this has already been considered, but maybe the favorites view should only contain the few most used activities and the rest can be launched from the list view? If this is not viable for some reason, maybe we need to fix or remove the list view? Well, I think we are bumping up against three orthogonal issues here: (1) how to make the Home View support more icons (without needing to scroll or pan -- we saw problems with that in the original donut view and still see it with the control panel -- this is the goal of the spiral. (The suggestion to shrink icons down to a pixel is a nice one, but rapidly degrades into something unusable in IMHO and requires yet another UI affordance: magnify. I think we can avoid such complexity for quite some time yet.) One fallback I keep thinking about is an overflow/more... icon as the last available icon in a favourite layout. In much the same way as the toolbar overflow drop down menu, it would act as the final catch all for an excess of activity icons. Alternatively it could be an option for where the main list view functionality goes if we remove that view and decide Journal is not where the functionality should go — the drop down could hold all non favourites activities. (2) the list view is intended to organize which icons are available on the home view and to access infrequently used icons. It also gives the user info re which version of an activity is installed. The current design causes confusion with the Journal and has very limited capability relative to the cost of supporting an alternative view. I would vote to move this functionality to the Journal: starred activities (items) show up on the Home View. Yes I think this has lots of potential. It does raise the issue/feature of being able to fav non-bundles and have them appear on your home view (i.e. some specific PDF books you are currently reading), this needs some thought as the home view would now contain some activity icons that changed to show most recent usage plus provide 'start new' functionality, and others that always just resumed a the same specific activity id. Perhaps in this case we would revert to the old grey icon / start new for activity bundles (with resume in their drop down menu) — oh Lordy... ;) But this is a seemingly wholly separate topic from #1. (3) even with the above resolved, we have arguably too little control over the home view, both in terns of what appears -- several requests have been made for the ability to have views of multiple collections: e.g., school view, home view, etc. and the ability to customize (as the Random View currently supports). (Also, there is often a request for a background image for the Home View.) All of these are features that could be added incrementally, preferably after we settle item #2. (My favorite solution for collections is to allow multiple stars, like in gmail.) Multiple stars, like gmail? Hmm can't see that gmail feature — did you mean multiple labels/tags? If we went with the Journal favs showing up in home view, we could go the whole hog and use the Journal tags as well. That way you could view home favs by tag with activities potentially appearing in more than on group. --Gary -walter Regards, Tomeu Thanks, - Chris. -walter Martin ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Gary Martin garycmar...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Walter, On 3 Aug 2010, at 11:39, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 11:39, Martin Dengler mar...@martindengler.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:32:34PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi Christian, Hi Chris--to address scalability we have a list view from which you can select favorite activities to go in the ring. This is a similar technique to the OSX dock or Windows taskbar. I don't think this is working out. For OLPC (and perhaps SoaS as well?) we're shipping with every activity other than Log and Terminal favorited by default, after receiving reports that kids didn't understand how to launch activities otherwise. Here is a tighter spiral of 74 icons for the home view (running in the Sugar emulator at 800x600). http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/f/f0/Spiral-home-view.png +1 Sorry if this has already been considered, but maybe the favorites view should only contain the few most used activities and the rest can be launched from the list view? If this is not viable for some reason, maybe we need to fix or remove the list view? Well, I think we are bumping up against three orthogonal issues here: (1) how to make the Home View support more icons (without needing to scroll or pan -- we saw problems with that in the original donut view and still see it with the control panel -- this is the goal of the spiral. (The suggestion to shrink icons down to a pixel is a nice one, but rapidly degrades into something unusable in IMHO and requires yet another UI affordance: magnify. I think we can avoid such complexity for quite some time yet.) One fallback I keep thinking about is an overflow/more... icon as the last available icon in a favourite layout. In much the same way as the toolbar overflow drop down menu, it would act as the final catch all for an excess of activity icons. Alternatively it could be an option for where the main list view functionality goes if we remove that view and decide Journal is not where the functionality should go — the drop down could hold all non favourites activities. (2) the list view is intended to organize which icons are available on the home view and to access infrequently used icons. It also gives the user info re which version of an activity is installed. The current design causes confusion with the Journal and has very limited capability relative to the cost of supporting an alternative view. I would vote to move this functionality to the Journal: starred activities (items) show up on the Home View. Yes I think this has lots of potential. It does raise the issue/feature of being able to fav non-bundles and have them appear on your home view (i.e. some specific PDF books you are currently reading), this needs some thought as the home view would now contain some activity icons that changed to show most recent usage plus provide 'start new' functionality, and others that always just resumed a the same specific activity id. Perhaps in this case we would revert to the old grey icon / start new for activity bundles (with resume in their drop down menu) — oh Lordy... ;) But this is a seemingly wholly separate topic from #1. (3) even with the above resolved, we have arguably too little control over the home view, both in terns of what appears -- several requests have been made for the ability to have views of multiple collections: e.g., school view, home view, etc. and the ability to customize (as the Random View currently supports). (Also, there is often a request for a background image for the Home View.) All of these are features that could be added incrementally, preferably after we settle item #2. (My favorite solution for collections is to allow multiple stars, like in gmail.) Multiple stars, like gmail? Hmm can't see that gmail feature — did you mean multiple labels/tags? If we went with the Journal favs showing up in home view, we could go the whole hog and use the Journal tags as well. That way you could view home favs by tag with activities potentially appearing in more than on group. Might be an add-on. But I can assign different stars to my mail. Using tags is spot on, but we may want a button or star mechanism to generate the tags as well. --Gary -walter Regards, Tomeu Thanks, - Chris. -walter Martin ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
Starring activites in the journal to appear in Home makes sense. And the spiral as overflow for the ring, if executed well, seems like a good idea in order to preserve the general UI metaphor. We should test a range of different variations to end up with a design that is both efficient and visually elegant. I think we should also investigate a scalable grid view with thumbnails--I still believe this would make for a great counterpart to the ring/spiral. I'll look for the original mockups and start exploring this idea further... Christian On Aug 3, 2010, at 8:10 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Gary Martin garycmar...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Walter, On 3 Aug 2010, at 11:39, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 11:39, Martin Dengler mar...@martindengler.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:32:34PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi Christian, Hi Chris--to address scalability we have a list view from which you can select favorite activities to go in the ring. This is a similar technique to the OSX dock or Windows taskbar. I don't think this is working out. For OLPC (and perhaps SoaS as well?) we're shipping with every activity other than Log and Terminal favorited by default, after receiving reports that kids didn't understand how to launch activities otherwise. Here is a tighter spiral of 74 icons for the home view (running in the Sugar emulator at 800x600). http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/f/f0/Spiral-home-view.png +1 Sorry if this has already been considered, but maybe the favorites view should only contain the few most used activities and the rest can be launched from the list view? If this is not viable for some reason, maybe we need to fix or remove the list view? Well, I think we are bumping up against three orthogonal issues here: (1) how to make the Home View support more icons (without needing to scroll or pan -- we saw problems with that in the original donut view and still see it with the control panel -- this is the goal of the spiral. (The suggestion to shrink icons down to a pixel is a nice one, but rapidly degrades into something unusable in IMHO and requires yet another UI affordance: magnify. I think we can avoid such complexity for quite some time yet.) One fallback I keep thinking about is an overflow/more... icon as the last available icon in a favourite layout. In much the same way as the toolbar overflow drop down menu, it would act as the final catch all for an excess of activity icons. Alternatively it could be an option for where the main list view functionality goes if we remove that view and decide Journal is not where the functionality should go — the drop down could hold all non favourites activities. (2) the list view is intended to organize which icons are available on the home view and to access infrequently used icons. It also gives the user info re which version of an activity is installed. The current design causes confusion with the Journal and has very limited capability relative to the cost of supporting an alternative view. I would vote to move this functionality to the Journal: starred activities (items) show up on the Home View. Yes I think this has lots of potential. It does raise the issue/ feature of being able to fav non-bundles and have them appear on your home view (i.e. some specific PDF books you are currently reading), this needs some thought as the home view would now contain some activity icons that changed to show most recent usage plus provide 'start new' functionality, and others that always just resumed a the same specific activity id. Perhaps in this case we would revert to the old grey icon / start new for activity bundles (with resume in their drop down menu) — oh Lordy... ;) But this is a seemingly wholly separate topic from #1. (3) even with the above resolved, we have arguably too little control over the home view, both in terns of what appears -- several requests have been made for the ability to have views of multiple collections: e.g., school view, home view, etc. and the ability to customize (as the Random View currently supports). (Also, there is often a request for a background image for the Home View.) All of these are features that could be added incrementally, preferably after we settle item #2. (My favorite solution for collections is to allow multiple stars, like in gmail.) Multiple stars, like gmail? Hmm can't see that gmail feature — did you mean multiple labels/tags? If we went with the Journal favs s howing up in home view, we could go the whole hog and use the Jour nal tags as well. That way you could view
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 6:39 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: (3) even with the above resolved, we have arguably too little control over the home view, both in terns of what appears -- several requests have been made for the ability to have views of multiple collections: e.g., school view, home view, etc. and the ability to customize (as the Random View currently supports). (Also, there is often a request for a background image for the Home View.) All of these are features that could be added incrementally, preferably after we settle item #2. (My favorite solution for collections is to allow multiple stars, like in gmail.) My radical suggestion (years ago) was that the Home view should be an activity, like any other activity. It should be possible to install new home views just like any other activity bundle. In that environment, a thousand flowers can bloom. (Incidentally, I believe that the network view should also be an activity. The Journal already is an activity; it should be more easily replaceable.) --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
Hi Gary--I think this looks quite nice. This actually seems like a nice evolution on the simple ring, though it would be good to see how it adapts from the basic layout and with different numbers of activities... Christian On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Gary Martin garycmar...@googlemail.comwrote: Hi Christian, On 3 Aug 2010, at 14:12, Christian Marc Schmidt wrote: Starring activites in the journal to appear in Home makes sense. And the spiral as overflow for the ring, if executed well, seems like a good idea in order to preserve the general UI metaphor. We should test a range of different variations to end up with a design that is both efficient and visually elegant. I think we should also investigate a scalable grid view with thumbnails--I still believe this would make for a great counterpart to the ring/spiral. I'll look for the original mockups and start exploring this idea further... Here's a quick vector mockup: - list view toolbar icon gone - spiral icon default view* - grey activity icons are Journal starred .xo bundles, provide the 'Start new' functionality and existing resume of last N recent entries access** - coloured activity icons are starred Journal entries created by user or others (resumes that entry, shows past versions?)*** *note the duplicate activity icons, I wanted to see what home would look like once multiple activities of the same time could be favoured. ** note the 'Start shared with --' option, and idea/request that's been bouncing around for a while, example use case would be to start a new Chat directly with the local neighbourhood, or a specific friend (rather than faffing around with the activity toolbar after a new activity instance has been created). *** we need to be very sure users are clear on the new vs resume distinction, otherwise we're just back to users resuming, say, a nice painting they starred and then possibly messing it up or manually wiping it because they want to make something new. Versions would obviously help recover from such actions. --Gary Christian On Aug 3, 2010, at 8:10 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Gary Martin garycmar...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Walter, On 3 Aug 2010, at 11:39, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 11:39, Martin Dengler mar...@martindengler.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:32:34PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi Christian, Hi Chris--to address scalability we have a list view from which you can select favorite activities to go in the ring. This is a similar technique to the OSX dock or Windows taskbar. I don't think this is working out. For OLPC (and perhaps SoaS as well?) we're shipping with every activity other than Log and Terminal favorited by default, after receiving reports that kids didn't understand how to launch activities otherwise. Here is a tighter spiral of 74 icons for the home view (running in the Sugar emulator at 800x600). http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/f/f0/Spiral-home-view.png +1 Sorry if this has already been considered, but maybe the favorites view should only contain the few most used activities and the rest can be launched from the list view? If this is not viable for some reason, maybe we need to fix or remove the list view? Well, I think we are bumping up against three orthogonal issues here: (1) how to make the Home View support more icons (without needing to scroll or pan -- we saw problems with that in the original donut view and still see it with the control panel -- this is the goal of the spiral. (The suggestion to shrink icons down to a pixel is a nice one, but rapidly degrades into something unusable in IMHO and requires yet another UI affordance: magnify. I think we can avoid such complexity for quite some time yet.) One fallback I keep thinking about is an overflow/more... icon as the last available icon in a favourite layout. In much the same way as the toolbar overflow drop down menu, it would act as the final catch all for an excess of activity icons. Alternatively it could be an option for where the main list view functionality goes if we remove that view and decide Journal is not where the functionality should go — the drop down could hold all non favourites activities. (2) the list view is intended to organize which icons are available on the home view and to access infrequently used icons. It also gives the user info re which version of an activity is installed. The current design causes confusion with the Journal and has very limited capability relative to the cost of supporting an alternative view. I would vote to move this functionality to the Journal: starred activities
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
sameer wrote: This reminds me of something tangential...when the home view gets crowded like this, will the search feature help in locating an activity? Does the mechanism exist? i seem to recall that this mechanism does exist, but has been disabled. the issue was that if you unknowingly touched a key while in the home view, the search would kick in, often leaving you with an empty home screen -- no matches to the search, therefore now icons. perhaps if the non-matching icons were greyed out instead of eliminated completely, we could bring it back. paul =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:50 AM, Paul Fox p...@laptop.org wrote: sameer wrote: This reminds me of something tangential...when the home view gets crowded like this, will the search feature help in locating an activity? Does the mechanism exist? i seem to recall that this mechanism does exist, but has been disabled. the issue was that if you unknowingly touched a key while in the home view, the search would kick in, often leaving you with an empty home screen -- no matches to the search, therefore now icons. perhaps if the non-matching icons were greyed out instead of eliminated completely, we could bring it back. paul In the Journal, an empty search results in a prominent display of the Journal icon with 'No matching entries' and a Clear search button. This feedback helps in discovering the purpose of that long oval bar with a mysterious symbol (later associated with a magnifying glass). Graying out the non-matches introduces 2 potential issues. First, confusion with Activity bundles (un-instantiated Activities). Second, it may leave too much distracting information rather than focusing on only the matches. I would prefer an 'Empty search' view like the Journal, using the central XO figure with the words 'No matching entries' then the Clear search button below (just like the Journal screen). --Fred ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
Again, I think that there is likely a better solution to the question of scalability. An extensible (scrolling or panning) grid or freeform view showing activity previews would not only convey more information about the last activity, it would also make the home view feel more personalized. For scalability we could try something akin to OSX spaces or iOS, adding additional screens that kids can pan between as the collection of activities grows. I don't disagree with the premise--I just think that there is a better solution than the spiral (it, too, will eventually run out of space). My suggestion is to explore an extensible grid/freeform view--there are already existing comps from a year or two ago that we can leverage and bring up-to-date. Christian On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.dewrote: On 30.07.2010, at 20:25, Chris Ball wrote: Hi Christian, Hi Chris--to address scalability we have a list view from which you can select favorite activities to go in the ring. This is a similar technique to the OSX dock or Windows taskbar. I don't think this is working out. Yep. The frame menu is hardly discoverable. And even though it's there I tend to forget about it. And when I used it I press F3 and wonder why the home view doesn't show up (because the list view feels so unlike home). To solve at least this, F3 should toggle between home and list view. But +1 to spiral from here ... - Bert - -- anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com 917/ 575 0013 http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/christianmarcschmidt http://twitter.com/cms_ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Christian Marc Schmidt christianm...@gmail.com wrote: Again, I think that there is likely a better solution to the question of scalability. An extensible (scrolling or panning) grid or freeform view showing activity previews would not only convey more information about the last activity, it would also make the home view feel more personalized. For scalability we could try something akin to OSX spaces or iOS, adding additional screens that kids can pan between as the collection of activities grows. I don't disagree with the premise--I just think that there is a better solution than the spiral (it, too, will eventually run out of space). Any pattern will eventually run out of space. A space-filling curve (Peano curve) might be interesting. There is an orthogonal question, which is if we let the icons move (as with the new spiral and the old random arrangements, how do we tell it to reset to the original layout? My less-than-satisfactory solution is to have one button for reseting and one fr switching in the secondary menu. I've got a version of the spiral that begins as a circle until it needs to wrap. I'll post some examples. -walter My suggestion is to explore an extensible grid/freeform view--there are already existing comps from a year or two ago that we can leverage and bring up-to-date. Christian On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 30.07.2010, at 20:25, Chris Ball wrote: Hi Christian, Hi Chris--to address scalability we have a list view from which you can select favorite activities to go in the ring. This is a similar technique to the OSX dock or Windows taskbar. I don't think this is working out. Yep. The frame menu is hardly discoverable. And even though it's there I tend to forget about it. And when I used it I press F3 and wonder why the home view doesn't show up (because the list view feels so unlike home). To solve at least this, F3 should toggle between home and list view. But +1 to spiral from here ... - Bert - -- anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com 917/ 575 0013 http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/christianmarcschmidt http://twitter.com/cms_ -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Christian Marc Schmidt christianm...@gmail.com wrote: Any pattern will eventually run out of space. A space-filling curve (Peano curve) might be interesting. There is an orthogonal question, It's not strictly true that any pattern will eventually run out of space. The original layout code, as I recall, also had provision for zooming the icons out. So you can shrink the icons down arbitrarily and there is no particular limit on how many you squeeze in. That said, a home view with one-pixel high icons is pretty useless. So this is just quibbling about a technicality. I did investigate space-filling curves of various types at the time I was writing the Sunflower layout. I couldn't come up with anything I liked aestheically -- which just means that the opportunity is still available for others to come up with something! I'm not completely sold that panning and zooming is the right answer to the problem. There are (at least) two other orthogonal axes: nesting, and search. The iPhone interface chose to add first search, and then nesting, rather than to simply add extra panes to the left, right, up, down, etc. This isn't to say that we must follow their lead -- just as a reminder that the solution space is not as constrained as it may appear. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Christian Marc Schmidt christianm...@gmail.com wrote: Again, I think that there is likely a better solution to the question of scalability. An extensible (scrolling or panning) grid or freeform view showing activity previews would not only convey more information about the last activity, it would also make the home view feel more personalized. For scalability we could try something akin to OSX spaces or iOS, adding additional screens that kids can pan between as the collection of activities grows. I don't disagree with the premise--I just think that there is a better solution than the spiral (it, too, will eventually run out of space). Christian has considered scalability above, but may not be aware of discussions of related usability features, such as Home item or Journal item grouping, (Home views and Journal integration) http://www.mail-archive.com/sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org/msg15159.html, and the video Aleksey shared on bookmark grouping (Tab Candy) http://www.mail-archive.com/sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org/msg15187.html. C. Scott also identifies the importance of utility over simple scalability. Any pattern will eventually run out of space. A space-filling curve (Peano curve) might be interesting. There is an orthogonal question, which is if we let the icons move (as with the new spiral and the old random arrangements, how do we tell it to reset to the original layout? My less-than-satisfactory solution is to have one button for reseting and one fr switching in the secondary menu. What is the information value of an earlier than previous pattern view? (If that's what you are asking.) Now, when we switch from one pattern to another, the pattern remembers its sorting, except for icons that were moved in the Freeform pattern, which are moved to the '00 hh' position of the Ring, pushing the other icons clockwise (in a reverse queue, if there were multiple moves). The inter-pattern adjustments may not be appropriate (other than, perhaps, the Freeform-fixed adjustment, which had some information-highlighting utility (still a fixed pattern would be re-arrangeable, thankfully, in the current proposals). --Fred ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
C. Scott Ananian wrote: On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Christian Marc Schmidt christianm...@gmail.com wrote: Any pattern will eventually run out of space. A space-filling curve (Peano curve) might be interesting. There is an orthogonal question, It's not strictly true that any pattern will eventually run out of space. The original layout code, as I recall, also had provision for zooming the icons out. So you can shrink the icons down arbitrarily and there is no particular limit on how many you squeeze in. That said, a home view with one-pixel high icons is pretty useless. So this is just quibbling about a technicality. Magnify icons when mouse is over them like macintosh OSX? I did investigate space-filling curves of various types at the time I was writing the Sunflower layout. I couldn't come up with anything I liked aestheically -- which just means that the opportunity is still available for others to come up with something! I'm not completely sold that panning and zooming is the right answer to the problem. There are (at least) two other orthogonal axes: nesting, and search. The iPhone interface chose to add first search, and then nesting, rather than to simply add extra panes to the left, right, up, down, etc. This isn't to say that we must follow their lead -- just as a reminder that the solution space is not as constrained as it may appear. --scott ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:
On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Frederick Grose fgr...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
wrote:
{...}
There is an orthogonal question,
which is if we let the icons move (as with the new spiral and the old
random arrangements, how do we tell it to reset to the original
layout? My less-than-satisfactory solution is to have one button for
reseting and one fr switching in the secondary menu.
What is the information value of an earlier than previous pattern view?
(If
that's what you are asking.)
In the new spiral I have implements, the user can drag icons around on
the screen, much like in the Random View. The question is, how to
restore the spiral if that is what you want?
I see, this would *not* be a purely-fixed Spiral pattern
with re-sortable elements, nor a standard Freeform initiated by the fixed
pattern, but a hybrid class that allows restoration to the last Spiral
before moving elements off the fixed pattern. (Otherwise, with the current
behavior, for the Ring, at least, the most-recently moved element would
occupy the central position and next previously-moved element the next
clockwise position).
If that feature were important, perhaps, we could implement it through named
grouped views (more value and effort) or provide an undo history button on
the pattern's sub-sub palette.
--Fred
-walter
Now, when we switch from one pattern to another, the pattern remembers
its
sorting, except for icons that were moved in the Freeform pattern, which
are
moved to the '00 hh' position of the Ring, pushing the other icons
clockwise
(in a reverse queue, if there were multiple moves). The inter-pattern
adjustments may not be appropriate (other than, perhaps, the
Freeform-fixed
adjustment, which had some information-highlighting utility (still a
fixed
pattern would be re-arrangeable, thankfully, in the current proposals).
--Fred
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 12:31 AM, Frederick Grose fgr...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:32 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:
{...}
Here is a tighter spiral of 74 icons for the home view (running in the
Sugar emulator at 800x600).
Running the emulator with usr/bin/sugar-emulator -i 832x624
give a close match to the XO screen proportions.
Done. See http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Walter#Home_View
-walter
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
I am heading off to vacation for a week, but I may get a chance to
play with moving/snapping the icons as well. In the meantime, the code
is quite simple:
--- favoriteslayout.py 2010-07-20 13:31:05.0 -0400
+++ favoriteslayout.py 2010-07-30 23:26:56.0 -0400
+
+class MyLayout(RingLayout):
+Spiral layout based on Archimedean spiral: r = a + b*theta.
+
+__gtype_name__ = 'MyLayout'
+
+icon_name = 'view-mylayout'
+Name of icon used in home view dropdown palette.
+
+profile_key = 'my-layout'
+String used in profile to represent this view.
+
+def __init__(self):
+RingLayout.__init__(self)
+self.my_radius = _MINIMUM_RADIUS
+self.my_orientation = math.pi
+
+def _calculate_radius_and_icon_size(self, children_count):
+Stub out this method; not used in `My Layout`.
+return _MINIMUM_RADIUS, style.STANDARD_ICON_SIZE
+
+def _calculate_position(self, radius, icon_size, index, children_count):
+ Increment the radius as you go; decrease the angle of rotation
+as the radius increases to keep the distance between icons constant.
+
+print index %d (r: %f, o: %f) % (index, self.my_radius,
self.my_orientation)
+if index == 0:
+self.my_radius = _MINIMUM_RADIUS
+self.my_orientation = math.pi
+
+x, y = self._calculate_xy()
+# add some buffering around the icon
+self._calculate_new_radius_orientation(icon_size + 10)
+
+
+# angle decreases as the radius increases
+angle = index * (2 * math.pi / (12.0 + index / 6.0)) - math.pi / 2
+# radius is proportional to index/children_count
+myminimum = _MINIMUM_RADIUS * .67
+newradius = ((_MAXIMUM_RADIUS - myminimum) * (index * 1.1) /
children_count) + myminimum
+x = newradius * math.cos(angle) + (width - icon_size) / 2
+y = newradius * math.sin(angle) + (height - icon_size -
style.GRID_CELL_SIZE) / 2
+
+width, height = self.box.get_allocation()
+return int(x) + (width - icon_size) / 2, \
+int(y) + (height - icon_size - (style.GRID_CELL_SIZE / 2) ) / 2
+
+def _calculate_xy(self):
+return -math.sin(self.my_orientation) * self.my_radius, \
+math.cos(self.my_orientation) * self.my_radius
+
+def _calculate_new_radius_orientation(self, icon_size):
+circumference = self.my_radius * 2 * math.pi
+n = circumference / icon_size
+self.my_orientation += 2 * math.pi / n
+self.my_radius += float(icon_size) / n
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 7:36 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 12:31 AM, Frederick Grose fgr...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:32 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:
{...}
Here is a tighter spiral of 74 icons for the home view (running in the
Sugar emulator at 800x600).
Running the emulator with usr/bin/sugar-emulator -i 832x624
give a close match to the XO screen proportions.
Done. See http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Walter#Home_View
-walter
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
I have a version which will let you reposition the icons (haven't
added swap yet) but I am not sure how best to reset the layout. We
could have a separate icon on the Home View secondary palette that
will reset the spiral to an initial state. Any other ideas?
-walter
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 7:40 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote:
I am heading off to vacation for a week, but I may get a chance to
play with moving/snapping the icons as well. In the meantime, the code
is quite simple:
--- favoriteslayout.py 2010-07-20 13:31:05.0 -0400
+++ favoriteslayout.py 2010-07-30 23:26:56.0 -0400
+
+class MyLayout(RingLayout):
+ Spiral layout based on Archimedean spiral: r = a + b*theta.
+
+ __gtype_name__ = 'MyLayout'
+
+ icon_name = 'view-mylayout'
+ Name of icon used in home view dropdown palette.
+
+ profile_key = 'my-layout'
+ String used in profile to represent this view.
+
+ def __init__(self):
+ RingLayout.__init__(self)
+ self.my_radius = _MINIMUM_RADIUS
+ self.my_orientation = math.pi
+
+ def _calculate_radius_and_icon_size(self, children_count):
+ Stub out this method; not used in `My Layout`.
+ return _MINIMUM_RADIUS, style.STANDARD_ICON_SIZE
+
+ def _calculate_position(self, radius, icon_size, index, children_count):
+ Increment the radius as you go; decrease the angle of rotation
+ as the radius increases to keep the distance between icons
constant.
+
+ print index %d (r: %f, o: %f) % (index, self.my_radius,
self.my_orientation)
+ if index == 0:
+ self.my_radius = _MINIMUM_RADIUS
+ self.my_orientation = math.pi
+
+ x, y = self._calculate_xy()
+ # add some buffering around the icon
+ self._calculate_new_radius_orientation(icon_size + 10)
+
+
+ # angle decreases as the radius increases
+ angle = index * (2 * math.pi / (12.0 + index / 6.0)) - math.pi / 2
+ # radius is proportional to index/children_count
+ myminimum = _MINIMUM_RADIUS * .67
+ newradius = ((_MAXIMUM_RADIUS - myminimum) * (index * 1.1) /
children_count) + myminimum
+ x = newradius * math.cos(angle) + (width - icon_size) / 2
+ y = newradius * math.sin(angle) + (height - icon_size -
style.GRID_CELL_SIZE) / 2
+
+ width, height = self.box.get_allocation()
+ return int(x) + (width - icon_size) / 2, \
+ int(y) + (height - icon_size - (style.GRID_CELL_SIZE / 2) ) / 2
+
+ def _calculate_xy(self):
+ return -math.sin(self.my_orientation) * self.my_radius, \
+ math.cos(self.my_orientation) * self.my_radius
+
+ def _calculate_new_radius_orientation(self, icon_size):
+ circumference = self.my_radius * 2 * math.pi
+ n = circumference / icon_size
+ self.my_orientation += 2 * math.pi / n
+ self.my_radius += float(icon_size) / n
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 7:36 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 12:31 AM, Frederick Grose fgr...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:32 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:
{...}
Here is a tighter spiral of 74 icons for the home view (running in the
Sugar emulator at 800x600).
Running the emulator with usr/bin/sugar-emulator -i 832x624
give a close match to the XO screen proportions.
Done. See http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Walter#Home_View
-walter
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On 30.07.2010, at 20:25, Chris Ball wrote: Hi Christian, Hi Chris--to address scalability we have a list view from which you can select favorite activities to go in the ring. This is a similar technique to the OSX dock or Windows taskbar. I don't think this is working out. Yep. The frame menu is hardly discoverable. And even though it's there I tend to forget about it. And when I used it I press F3 and wonder why the home view doesn't show up (because the list view feels so unlike home). To solve at least this, F3 should toggle between home and list view. But +1 to spiral from here ... - Bert - ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
Thanks for forwarding this Gary. My feeling is that the views in home should be motivated by functional differences, for example ring vs. freeform (one allows positioning, the other positions elements linearly). To me, triangle, square, and spiral seem a little to obscure to be in the core build--while they are great experiments, I'm not sure I see a clear use case for them other than experimentation. I do think that there are opportunities for different views, but would love to first figure out collectively what the functional differences/affordances are that we are designing for... Does that make sense? Christian On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 10:20 PM, Gary Martin garycmar...@googlemail.comwrote: On 30 Jul 2010, at 02:00, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi, On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 03:57:35PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: See http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/ModifyingSugar (towards the bottom of the page). +1 on the spiral. I like it too. I'm worried that it would scale badly, but Walter suggested just tightening the spiral, and that sounds good to me. Is anyone on the Design Team reading? +1, have cc'ed Eben and Christian incase they miss this thread. What would it take to move forward with (a) including spiral, and (b) making it default? Should we ask for input from deployments, too? Also, how would people feel about a patch that: * allows drag and drop when in a non-freeform view * if an icon is moved while in a non-freeform view, the current layout switches to freeform, and the position of all the activities is saved as the base for the new freeform configuration. That sounds reasonable as well. The auto-mode change to freeform layout when dragging could be easily triggered accidentally when clicking, so that might want to only fire once an icon is dragged over a certain number of pixels. The visual change of the layout toolbar icon, as the switch happens, will provide help some additional visual feedback. FWIW: Eben's original proposal (if I remember correctly) for dragging in the home view was to snap the icon to the nearest point on the fixed layout path and reflow the others to make space. Allowing organisation within the confines of the current layout. Regards, --Gary (So, going to spiral, dragging one icon out of place would enable freeform -- overwriting any previous freeform configuration -- then going back to spiral using the layout menu would put all icons in their spiral place, then manually going back to freeform using the menu would restore you to spiral with the one activity you moved back in the place you moved it to. Hope that made sense.) Thanks! - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com 917/ 575 0013 http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/christianmarcschmidt http://twitter.com/cms_ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
Could Activities be grouped as open-able folders(Icons with popup labels), which open with a click per the classification used by ASLO? http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/ ie: *Search Discovery *Documents *News *Chat, mail and talk ..etc ..etc Thus open-able folders (Icons) containing the classified Activities would be grouped in the ring view in F3, These openable folders could be also selected in the list view along with the individual activities- (with the stars). removing a whole group of applications from the ring view in F3. Each open-able icon would open a full screen list of the applications (sub List view) from that classification with a close button on top bar which would return you to the ring view. Tom Gilliard satellit Christian Marc Schmidt wrote: Thanks for forwarding this Gary. My feeling is that the views in home should be motivated by functional differences, for example ring vs. freeform (one allows positioning, the other positions elements linearly). To me, triangle, square, and spiral seem a little to obscure to be in the core build--while they are great experiments, I'm not sure I see a clear use case for them other than experimentation. I do think that there are opportunities for different views, but would love to first figure out collectively what the functional differences/affordances are that we are designing for... Does that make sense? Christian On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 10:20 PM, Gary Martin garycmar...@googlemail.comwrote: On 30 Jul 2010, at 02:00, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi, On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 03:57:35PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: See http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/ModifyingSugar (towards the bottom of the page). +1 on the spiral. I like it too. I'm worried that it would scale badly, but Walter suggested just tightening the spiral, and that sounds good to me. Is anyone on the Design Team reading? +1, have cc'ed Eben and Christian incase they miss this thread. What would it take to move forward with (a) including spiral, and (b) making it default? Should we ask for input from deployments, too? Also, how would people feel about a patch that: * allows drag and drop when in a non-freeform view * if an icon is moved while in a non-freeform view, the current layout switches to freeform, and the position of all the activities is saved as the base for the new freeform configuration. That sounds reasonable as well. The auto-mode change to freeform layout when dragging could be easily triggered accidentally when clicking, so that might want to only fire once an icon is dragged over a certain number of pixels. The visual change of the layout toolbar icon, as the switch happens, will provide help some additional visual feedback. FWIW: Eben's original proposal (if I remember correctly) for dragging in the home view was to snap the icon to the nearest point on the fixed layout path and reflow the others to make space. Allowing organisation within the confines of the current layout. Regards, --Gary (So, going to spiral, dragging one icon out of place would enable freeform -- overwriting any previous freeform configuration -- then going back to spiral using the layout menu would put all icons in their spiral place, then manually going back to freeform using the menu would restore you to spiral with the one activity you moved back in the place you moved it to. Hope that made sense.) Thanks! - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
Hi Christian, I do think that there are opportunities for different views, but would love to first figure out collectively what the functional differences/affordances are that we are designing for... The functional difference I'm interested in is supporting more activities; the ring view was designed when we shipped half as many activities as we do now, and I think it's reached its scalability limit. Thanks, - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
Hi Chris--to address scalability we have a list view from which you can select favorite activities to go in the ring. This is a similar technique to the OSX dock or Windows taskbar. But you raise a good point. I've always thought that there may be an opportunity for a scalable grid view, not unlike the iPhone, that could also show you thumbnail previews. We could adopt a paginating metaphor similar to the iPhone or even OSX spaces to make the view infinitely scalable (the freeform view could, for that matter, also utilize thumbnail previews). Then we are not only addressing scalability, but also offering an additional functional benefit. Perhaps this would be worth exploring? Christian On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi Christian, I do think that there are opportunities for different views, but would love to first figure out collectively what the functional differences/affordances are that we are designing for... The functional difference I'm interested in is supporting more activities; the ring view was designed when we shipped half as many activities as we do now, and I think it's reached its scalability limit. Thanks, - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child -- anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com 917/ 575 0013 http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/christianmarcschmidt http://twitter.com/cms_ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
Hi Christian, Hi Chris--to address scalability we have a list view from which you can select favorite activities to go in the ring. This is a similar technique to the OSX dock or Windows taskbar. I don't think this is working out. For OLPC (and perhaps SoaS as well?) we're shipping with every activity other than Log and Terminal favorited by default, after receiving reports that kids didn't understand how to launch activities otherwise. Thanks, - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi Christian, Hi Chris--to address scalability we have a list view from which you can select favorite activities to go in the ring. This is a similar technique to the OSX dock or Windows taskbar. I don't think this is working out. For OLPC (and perhaps SoaS as well?) we're shipping with every activity other than Log and Terminal favorited by default, after receiving reports that kids didn't understand how to launch activities otherwise. Here is a tighter spiral of 74 icons for the home view (running in the Sugar emulator at 800x600). I'll upload a version running on the XO soon as I get a chance. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/f/f0/Spiral-home-view.png -walter Thanks, - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
Hi Walter, Here is a tighter spiral of 74 icons for the home view (running in the Sugar emulator at 800x600). I'll upload a version running on the XO soon as I get a chance. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/f/f0/Spiral-home-view.png Looks great! The tight spiral looks similar to the ring view, so I think that helps to make the change feel unintrusive. Thanks, - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 9:06 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi Walter, Here is a tighter spiral of 74 icons for the home view (running in the Sugar emulator at 800x600). I'll upload a version running on the XO soon as I get a chance. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/f/f0/Spiral-home-view.png Looks great! The tight spiral looks similar to the ring view, so I think that helps to make the change feel unintrusive. Thanks, - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel This reminds me of something tangential...when the home view gets crowded like this, will the search feature help in locating an activity? Does the mechanism exist? cheers, Sameer ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:32 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:
{...}
Here is a tighter spiral of 74 icons for the home view (running in the
Sugar emulator at 800x600).
Running the emulator with usr/bin/sugar-emulator -i 832x624
give a close match to the XO screen proportions.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi, At the moment Sugar's enabling the freeform and circle layouts, but the code (jarabe/desktop/favoritesview.py) also defines (and then comments out) triangle, box and sunflower layouts. The circle algorithm isn't scaling well as we install more and more activities. Any suggestions on an algorithm to replace circle with? I tried out sunflower, but it's a bit messy and hard to navigate through. I'm still a fan of the sunflower, but a spiral such as I describe in the FLOSS manual maybe a nice compromise. See http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/ModifyingSugar (towards the bottom of the page). -walter Also, should we re-enable the commented out layouts? Thanks, - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On 29 Jul 2010, at 20:45, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi, At the moment Sugar's enabling the freeform and circle layouts, but the code (jarabe/desktop/favoritesview.py) also defines (and then comments out) triangle, box and sunflower layouts. The circle algorithm isn't scaling well as we install more and more activities. Any suggestions on an algorithm to replace circle with? I tried out sunflower, but it's a bit messy and hard to navigate through. Also, should we re-enable the commented out layouts? +1, always thought that was a nice way to personalise Sugar. Regards, --Gary Thanks, - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 03:57:35PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: See http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/ModifyingSugar (towards the bottom of the page). +1 on the spiral. Also, that page suggests vi, but current builds include gedit which is much easier. The files have also moved. sudo gedit /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/jarabe/desktop/favoritesview.py -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
Hi, On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 03:57:35PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: See http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/ModifyingSugar (towards the bottom of the page). +1 on the spiral. I like it too. I'm worried that it would scale badly, but Walter suggested just tightening the spiral, and that sounds good to me. Is anyone on the Design Team reading? What would it take to move forward with (a) including spiral, and (b) making it default? Should we ask for input from deployments, too? Also, how would people feel about a patch that: * allows drag and drop when in a non-freeform view * if an icon is moved while in a non-freeform view, the current layout switches to freeform, and the position of all the activities is saved as the base for the new freeform configuration. (So, going to spiral, dragging one icon out of place would enable freeform -- overwriting any previous freeform configuration -- then going back to spiral using the layout menu would put all icons in their spiral place, then manually going back to freeform using the menu would restore you to spiral with the one activity you moved back in the place you moved it to. Hope that made sense.) Thanks! - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home view activities layout
On 30 Jul 2010, at 02:00, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi, On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 03:57:35PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: See http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/ModifyingSugar (towards the bottom of the page). +1 on the spiral. I like it too. I'm worried that it would scale badly, but Walter suggested just tightening the spiral, and that sounds good to me. Is anyone on the Design Team reading? +1, have cc'ed Eben and Christian incase they miss this thread. What would it take to move forward with (a) including spiral, and (b) making it default? Should we ask for input from deployments, too? Also, how would people feel about a patch that: * allows drag and drop when in a non-freeform view * if an icon is moved while in a non-freeform view, the current layout switches to freeform, and the position of all the activities is saved as the base for the new freeform configuration. That sounds reasonable as well. The auto-mode change to freeform layout when dragging could be easily triggered accidentally when clicking, so that might want to only fire once an icon is dragged over a certain number of pixels. The visual change of the layout toolbar icon, as the switch happens, will provide help some additional visual feedback. FWIW: Eben's original proposal (if I remember correctly) for dragging in the home view was to snap the icon to the nearest point on the fixed layout path and reflow the others to make space. Allowing organisation within the confines of the current layout. Regards, --Gary (So, going to spiral, dragging one icon out of place would enable freeform -- overwriting any previous freeform configuration -- then going back to spiral using the layout menu would put all icons in their spiral place, then manually going back to freeform using the menu would restore you to spiral with the one activity you moved back in the place you moved it to. Hope that made sense.) Thanks! - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
