RE: Sundial Information
Many thanks to all of you who replied to the question about owls and sundials. I was surprised by all the info you found! I forwarded all your letters (all twelve of them) to Ohio State University. John From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of John Carmichael Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 8:43 AM To: 'Sundial Mailing List' Subject: FW: Sundial Information Hi Dialists: I received this intriguing letter from Ohio State University. The writer talks about an old publication called The Sundial. And then asked me if I am aware of any relationship between sundials and owls! I am not aware of any association between the two. I asked him to send me any photos of this. Meanwhile, I'm asking you guys if you have seen any relationship between owls and sundials. Thanks! I'll forward your answers to him, or you can write him directly. John From: Nathan Varrone [mailto:nathanvarr...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 1:20 AM To: jlcarmich...@comcast.net Subject: Sundial Information Dear John Carmichael, I am currently reviving a humor magazine titled The Sundial at The Ohio State University. In old issues of The Sundial, I often see an owl on top of the drawn images of sundials. Is there any association with owls and sundials that you would know of? Thanks so much for your time, we may do business with you in the future! Best, -- Nathan L. Varrone The Ohio State University Associate Director, 8th Floor Improv President, The Sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: FW: Sundial Information
Dear John (and Willy, Aleks, Wolfgang, et al), I have greatly enjoyed the all the answers to your question about Owls and Sundials... Willy Leenders tells us that the Dutch word zonnewijzer really means wiser sun. How many of us knew that? Aleks has sent us a nice illustration of a sundial with a carved owl on the side with the caption Greek Sundial. Wolfgang Dick referred us to the German trickster Till Eulenspiegel. I have been waiting for someone to remind us of the German translation of carrying coals to Newcastle which is Eulen nach Athen tragen. This, literally, is to bear owls to Athens. In recent times Germans have, instead, been shipping Euros to Athens (by the shed load). Maybe it would be wiser to send some Owls? For reasons I don't understand, Greece seems to have surprisingly few sundials given the plethora of sundials there in classical times. I suggest that the Greeks should be sent a bulk shipment of sundials Made in Germany to the same specification as Aleks's sundial. The locals can then ponder the owl, and wonder about their lost sundial heritage and even their lost Euros. All the best Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Sundial Information
Frank, I do not know if your comment was meant to be funny or serious. In every way a Dutch lesson: 'wijzer' has two meanings: 1. 'indicator' or 'hand' (of a clock) 2. comparative of 'wijs' (wise - wiser) In my reply I used the second meaning to ridicule the relation between sundial and owl In the word 'zonnewijzer' (sundial) the first meaning applies. Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 20-nov-2010, om 10:18 heeft Frank King het volgende geschreven: Dear John (and Willy, Aleks, Wolfgang, et al), I have greatly enjoyed the all the answers to your question about Owls and Sundials... Willy Leenders tells us that the Dutch word zonnewijzer really means wiser sun. How many of us knew that? Aleks has sent us a nice illustration of a sundial with a carved owl on the side with the caption Greek Sundial. Wolfgang Dick referred us to the German trickster Till Eulenspiegel. I have been waiting for someone to remind us of the German translation of carrying coals to Newcastle which is Eulen nach Athen tragen. This, literally, is to bear owls to Athens. In recent times Germans have, instead, been shipping Euros to Athens (by the shed load). Maybe it would be wiser to send some Owls? For reasons I don't understand, Greece seems to have surprisingly few sundials given the plethora of sundials there in classical times. I suggest that the Greeks should be sent a bulk shipment of sundials Made in Germany to the same specification as Aleks's sundial. The locals can then ponder the owl, and wonder about their lost sundial heritage and even their lost Euros. All the best Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: FW: Sundial Information; wiser sun
Dear Frank, Willy et al, Surely the Dutch word zonnewijzer is similar to the English word waywiser, which is a device used to measure distances along roads. The derivation, according to the Shorter OED, is from the German wegweiser, compounded from weg=way and weiser, from weisen=to show, being an agent that shows. Thus, a waywiser is an agent for showing the length of a way. So, surely a zonnewijzer is a device to show the time from the sun. Jumping from wijzer to wise owl seems to me far fetched, though fun. Best wishes to all, Chris - Original Message - From: Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk To: John Carmichael jlcarmich...@comcast.net Cc: 'Sundial Mailing List' sund...@rrz.uni-koeln.de Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 9:18 AM Subject: Re: FW: Sundial Information Dear John (and Willy, Aleks, Wolfgang, et al), I have greatly enjoyed the all the answers to your question about Owls and Sundials... Willy Leenders tells us that the Dutch word zonnewijzer really means wiser sun. How many of us knew that? Aleks has sent us a nice illustration of a sundial with a carved owl on the side with the caption Greek Sundial. Wolfgang Dick referred us to the German trickster Till Eulenspiegel. I have been waiting for someone to remind us of the German translation of carrying coals to Newcastle which is Eulen nach Athen tragen. This, literally, is to bear owls to Athens. In recent times Germans have, instead, been shipping Euros to Athens (by the shed load). Maybe it would be wiser to send some Owls? For reasons I don't understand, Greece seems to have surprisingly few sundials given the plethora of sundials there in classical times. I suggest that the Greeks should be sent a bulk shipment of sundials Made in Germany to the same specification as Aleks's sundial. The locals can then ponder the owl, and wonder about their lost sundial heritage and even their lost Euros. All the best Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Sundial Information
And I think Frank might be having us on with the owla interpretation. More likely the owls around Hughes Hall descend from the college's crest/shield: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes_Hall%2C_Cambridge?wasRedirected=true . -- Richard Langley Sent from my iPod Touch On 2010-11-19, at 1:06 PM, Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: Dear John, I'm asking you guys if you have seen any relationship between owls and sundials. I once tried very hard to establish such a relationship but my best intentions were not appreciated... I had a client and I wanted to symbolise sunrise and sunset on the proposed sundial. I offered a really beautiful cock for sunrise and an even more beautiful owl for sunset. The client's comment was brief: too fussy. So there was another good idea that failed to see the light of day :-( Actually there is a College in Cambridge, Hughes Hall, which has a modern down-market sundial and I am pretty sure there is an owl on it. That's because Hughes Hall in Latin is Aula de Hughes and Aula sounds almost like Owl and they have owls all over the place in consequence. OK, I'm just the messenger! Very best wishes Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Sundial Information
Dear All, Yes, I was having you on by backing up Willy Lenders's witty translation of zonnewijzer. Willy and Chris Lusby Taylor have provided the more usual explanation. I wasn't having you on about Hughes Hall though! Richard Langley is right that the college arms incorporates two owls but they are there as a (not very good) heraldic pun on the Latin aula (with a 'u' not a 'w') for hall. There are owls in the arms, there is an owl weather vane and the sundial has two owls: http://www.hughes.cam.ac.uk/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=25 The owls are convincing, the dial is reasonably convincing, but there is something horribly wrong with the gnomon! Last summer the Hughes Hall May Ball supported the World Owl Trust and two owls were present as guests. Frank King Cambridge, U.K. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: Sundial Information
Dear All, I have a small booklet about the Owl Sundial at Little Melton First School (Norfolk, England). They used an owl on their sundial as a symbol of wisdom and as it is often used as a caricature of a school teacher. It was constructed in 2000 and the owl's beak is the gnomon. The leaflet includes the following poem: On September One, you can trust the sun Come Halloween, subtract sixteen. On Christmas Day, the dial's OK For your Valentine true, add a dozen and two. Add no more, the mid of month four. The mid of May, take four away. On June fourteen, don't add a bean. When August begins, add six little mins. The rest is easy: For any date All you do is interpolate. I've no idea who wrote it or how I obtained the booklet. Best wishes Jackie From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of John Carmichael Sent: 19 November 2010 15:43 To: 'Sundial Mailing List' Subject: FW: Sundial Information Hi Dialists: I received this intriguing letter from Ohio State University. The writer talks about an old publication called The Sundial. And then asked me if I am aware of any relationship between sundials and owls! I am not aware of any association between the two. I asked him to send me any photos of this. Meanwhile, I'm asking you guys if you have seen any relationship between owls and sundials. Thanks! I'll forward your answers to him, or you can write him directly. John From: Nathan Varrone [mailto:nathanvarr...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 1:20 AM To: jlcarmich...@comcast.net Subject: Sundial Information Dear John Carmichael, I am currently reviving a humor magazine titled The Sundial at The Ohio State University. In old issues of The Sundial, I often see an owl on top of the drawn images of sundials. Is there any association with owls and sundials that you would know of? Thanks so much for your time, we may do business with you in the future! Best, -- Nathan L. Varrone The Ohio State University Associate Director, 8th Floor Improv President, The Sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
FW: Sundial Information
Hi Dialists: I received this intriguing letter from Ohio State University. The writer talks about an old publication called The Sundial. And then asked me if I am aware of any relationship between sundials and owls! I am not aware of any association between the two. I asked him to send me any photos of this. Meanwhile, I'm asking you guys if you have seen any relationship between owls and sundials. Thanks! I'll forward your answers to him, or you can write him directly. John From: Nathan Varrone [mailto:nathanvarr...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 1:20 AM To: jlcarmich...@comcast.net Subject: Sundial Information Dear John Carmichael, I am currently reviving a humor magazine titled The Sundial at The Ohio State University. In old issues of The Sundial, I often see an owl on top of the drawn images of sundials. Is there any association with owls and sundials that you would know of? Thanks so much for your time, we may do business with you in the future! Best, -- Nathan L. Varrone The Ohio State University Associate Director, 8th Floor Improv President, The Sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: FW: Sundial Information
I suspect there's no relationship. The publishers of the humor magazine were probably making an oblique reference to the owl of Athena, which is a symbol of wisdom. A bit sly, but also a bit self-congratulatory (but this is a college humor magazine, not Dean Swift). Brad On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 10:43 AM, John Carmichael jlcarmich...@comcast.netwrote: Hi Dialists: I received this intriguing letter from Ohio State University. The writer talks about an old publication called “The Sundial”. And then asked me if I am aware of any relationship between sundials and owls! I am not aware of any association between the two. I asked him to send me any photos of this. Meanwhile, I’m asking you guys if you have seen any relationship between owls and sundials. Thanks! I’ll forward your answers to him, or you can write him directly. John *From:* Nathan Varrone [mailto:nathanvarr...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2010 1:20 AM *To:* jlcarmich...@comcast.net *Subject:* Sundial Information Dear John Carmichael, I am currently reviving a humor magazine titled *The Sundial *at The Ohio State University. In old issues of *The Sundial*, I often see an owl on top of the drawn images of sundials. Is there any association with owls and sundials that you would know of? Thanks so much for your time, we may do business with you in the future! Best, -- Nathan L. Varrone The Ohio State University Associate Director, 8th Floor Improv President, The Sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: FW: Sundial Information
Dear John, I'm asking you guys if you have seen any relationship between owls and sundials. I once tried very hard to establish such a relationship but my best intentions were not appreciated... I had a client and I wanted to symbolise sunrise and sunset on the proposed sundial. I offered a really beautiful cock for sunrise and an even more beautiful owl for sunset. The client's comment was brief: too fussy. So there was another good idea that failed to see the light of day :-( Actually there is a College in Cambridge, Hughes Hall, which has a modern down-market sundial and I am pretty sure there is an owl on it. That's because Hughes Hall in Latin is Aula de Hughes and Aula sounds almost like Owl and they have owls all over the place in consequence. OK, I'm just the messenger! Very best wishes Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: FW: Sundial Information
Perhaps the connection is that the ancient Greek word 'gnomon' means 'one who discerns' or 'that which reveals' . Athena (and her Roman equivalent, Minerva) was the godess of wisdom and her symbol was the owl. Harriet Harriet James Sunnydials 35 Bradley Road Warminster BA12 8BN www.sunnydials.co.uk Tel: 01985 216311 On Fri 19/11/10 3:43 PM , John Carmichael jlcarmich...@comcast.net sent: Hi Dialists: I received this intriguing letter from Ohio State University. The writer talks about an old publication called “The Sundial”. And then asked me if I am aware of any relationship between sundials and owls! I am not aware of any association between the two. I asked him to send me any photos of this. Meanwhile, I’m asking you guys if you have seen any relationship between owls and sundials. Thanks! I’ll forward your answers to him, or you can write him directly. John Nathan Varrone [mailto:nathanvarr...@gmail.com] Friday, November 19, 2010 1:20 AM jlcarmich...@comcast.net Sundial Information Dear John Carmichael, I am currently reviving a humor magazine titled _The Sundial _at The Ohio State University. In old issues of _The Sundial_, I often see an owl on top of the drawn images of sundials. Is there any association with owls and sundials that you would know of? Thanks so much for your time, we may do business with you in the future! Best, -- Nathan L. Varrone The Ohio State University Associate Director, 8th Floor Improv President, The Sundial--- --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Sundial Information
I'm for Harriet's interpretation Athene, her owl and the meaning of gnomon K On 19 Nov 2010, at 16:03, Brad Lufkin wrote: I suspect there's no relationship. The publishers of the humor magazine were probably making an oblique reference to the owl of Athena, which is a symbol of wisdom. A bit sly, but also a bit self-congratulatory (but this is a college humor magazine, not Dean Swift). Brad On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 10:43 AM, John Carmichael jlcarmich...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Dialists: I received this intriguing letter from Ohio State University. The writer talks about an old publication called “The Sundial”. And then asked me if I am aware of any relationship between sundials and owls! I am not aware of any association between the two. I asked him to send me any photos of this. Meanwhile, I’m asking you guys if you have seen any relationship between owls and sundials. Thanks! I’ll forward your answers to him, or you can write him directly. John From: Nathan Varrone [mailto:nathanvarr...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 1:20 AM To: jlcarmich...@comcast.net Subject: Sundial Information Dear John Carmichael, I am currently reviving a humor magazine titled The Sundial at The Ohio State University. In old issues of The Sundial, I often see an owl on top of the drawn images of sundials. Is there any association with owls and sundials that you would know of? Thanks so much for your time, we may do business with you in the future! Best, -- Nathan L. Varrone The Ohio State University Associate Director, 8th Floor Improv President, The Sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Sundial information urgently needed!!!
Ronald Zurcher wrote: Dear Sundial experts, I was given your address by Mr. Morrison whose name I also found in the web. My name is Monique Thoen and I am a practicing architect in San Jose, Costa Rica. We are currently working on a park project located in Fortaleza, Brazil (south america), and in which a sun dial is being proposed. I have been trying to find information regarding the nature of the design on these items. The project proposes to have a sun dial which will reflect the time of the day on the ground. We have a 25 meter circumferece area to work with. snip.. Monique, The mail, dated 24 may came at 18 july Still in a hurry or a false computer date? I found Fortaleza in a map at latitude 4 south. I calculated a horizontal dial for that latitude and attached the result as brazil.gif. That example reads local suntime. At the right you find the needed style. Put it upright in the center of the dial. Also made an indicator in the middle of the style for the datelines. This is just a simple example. Look at http://www.iaehv.nl/users/ferdv/ for more information and computerprograms. The other kind of dial is an analemmatic sundial. A horizontal dial of this kind isn't very suitable at a latitude near the equator. The pattern nearly is a straight line and during a rather long periode the time is difficult to read. What is the real latitude of the place where the sundial will be erected? What is the longitude? What is the timezone in Fortaleza? Than also dials to read clocktime can be calculated. Good luch with the project. Fer de Vries. Netherlands. Attachment converted: MAC Hard Disk:brazil.gif (GIFf/JVWR) (6DCF)
Sundial information urgently needed!!!
Dear Sundial experts, I was given your address by Mr. Morrison whose name I also found in the web. My name is Monique Thoen and I am a practicing architect in San Jose, Costa Rica. We are currently working on a park project located in Fortaleza, Brazil (south america), and in which a sun dial is being proposed. I have been trying to find information regarding the nature of the design on these items. The project proposes to have a sun dial which will reflect the time of the day on the ground. We have a 25 meter circumferece area to work with. What are the design elements that must be kept in mind in order to design a sun dial in Fortaleza which will work properly? Also, I have been told that there is a sun dial concept/design (especially popular with children) where the shadow reflected by standing on a point on the ground will provide the time of the day. Anybody able to give me more information on this? I am especially interested in this concept as it could become a learing experience for children. In the meantime I will keep digging into the web for further information and see if I can find a book that was recommeded to me by Mr. Morrison. However, any additinal information that any of you could supply me with at this point would be greatly appreciated. I am in urgent need for it. You can locate me at the following addresses: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks again to all of you. Sincerely and best regards. Monique
Sundial information in the World Wide Web
Sundial information in the World Wide Web (WWW) --- A lot of information about sundials is already available in the WWW. A starting point for this may be http://aibn55.astro.uni-bonn.de:8000/~pbrosche/hist_astr/ha_items_instrum.html , a document among the History of Astronomy WWW pages http://aibn55.astro.uni-bonn.de:8000/~pbrosche/astoria.html . Additions to this document are very appreciated but should be limited to historical sundials. Wolfgang R. Dick Secretary of the Working Group for the History of Astronomy in the Astronomische Gesellschaft [EMAIL PROTECTED] Appendix: The World Wide Web The World Wide Web (WWW) is the universe of network-accessible information, an embodiment of human knowledge. It is an initiative started at CERN, now with many participants, and is growing exponentially. The WWW has a body of software, and a set of protocols and conventions. It uses hypertext and multimedia techniques to make the web easy for anyone to roam, browse, and contribute to. Each highlighted phrase (in color or underlined) is a hyperlink to another document or information resource somewhere on the Internet. The access to the WWW is available for everyone at prices comparable to that of a telephone connection. To learn how to get access one may just go to the next bookshop and buy one of the numerous books available.
