Re: [SURVPC] new box?
Or Botton wrote: Actually, I heard it was a 486 laptop that serves as the main-computer on space-station Mir.. or was it Sky-lab? Or Botton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't think it's a 486, way to new/fast. I've heard a story that NASA astronauts always take their laptops with them if they need to go to MIR. The laptops are used to take over Mir's systems which aren't trusted by most American astronauts. -- Casper Gielen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.wxs.nl/~vcmeaned -- The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners. To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
On 1999-03-13 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Actually, I heard it was a 486 laptop that serves as the main-computer on space-station Mir.. or was it Sky-lab? Or Botton Not Sky-Lab..Sky-Lab was back in the 70's, Waaayyy, before the 486 came out. Chad A. Fernandez Battle Creek, MI Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Test Drive To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
HI, Guys, You can not physically plug an 8086 CPU into a socket made for the 8088 CPU. The 8086 is physically longer than the 8088, so the pin-outs are most definitely not compatible. You could boost the speed of an XT machine with that 8088 processor by replacing it with an NEC V-20 microprocessor. You could get 20-50 percent more performance that way. The v-20 came in 4.77-, and 7.16MHz clock speeds. NEC's replacement for the 8086 processor was the 9.54MHz V-30 processor. Their replacement for, or clone of the Intel 80186 processor was the V-40. They were talking about an 80286 clone to be called something like the P-51 or the P-52 or something like that. If they actually made it, it found a home as the processing heart of control systems, or other subsystems rather than as the heart of a PC system. A Compaq DeskPro with a 9.54MHZ NEC V-30 processor and a 9.54MHz Intel 8087-3 Math Coprocessor and a full 640K of RAm, EGA controller or 8-bit VGA controller, and a fast ESDI hard drive would give a lot of 286 machines a respectable run for their money in doing real-world business tasks with mainstream applications like Lotus 1.2.3 2.X or WordPerfect 5.1 or earlier. The only way to outclass the DeskPro 286/12 in the 80286 market was to get something like Dell's System 220 with the 20MHz 80286 processor, which Dell claimed would outperform some 16MHz 80386 machines in real-world application speed tests, and do it for several hundred dollars less. Now, you have to remember that, in 1988, a cheap 80386SX16 system with 2MB of system RAM, a basic VGA card with 256K of DRAM on board, a 60- or 80MB hard drive, and one floppy drive, with a basic VGA 12-inch monitor and DOS 3.3 was considered a bargain at about $3200 U.S. dollars. Even as late as 1991, IBM was still selling thousands of PS/2 model 30/286 machines to businesses to use as work stations to connect on the network, and they came with 1MB RAM, a 9.54MHz 80286 processor, VGA on the motherboard, 1.44MB floppy drive, and either a 20-, 30-, or 40MB IDE hard drive. And, of course, by the fall of 1991, the 50MHz 80486-based machine was the power-users' dream machine. A couple hours thumbing through reviews in the computer mags of 1987-1992 would be a shocker for many people to see just what you got for your three or four thousand dollars, and how much the options cost. In 1989, if you had a 5.25-inch 1.2MB floppy drive in your new box and you wanted to add a 1.44MB 3.5-inch floppy drive, you would prepare to shell out at least $110 for the privellege. Want an Intel 20- or 25-MHz 80387 math coprocessor to go along with that comparable 80386DX CPU, get out another $550 or so. Memory? Fifty dollars per megabyte was cheap! Bigger hard disk? Double the price of the whole system to go from, say 60MB to 180MB. Want that hot monster 650MB ESDI speed deamon for the PC on your desk? Forego the purchase of at least one complete 80386SX workstation for one of your employees! We haven't even talked about fast modems, greyscale scanners, laser printers, CD-ROM drives. A cheap, basic sound card was barely under 100 dollars. I'm typing this message on a Compaq DeskPro made in 1988. As originally purchased, with it's 314MB ESDI drive, one high-density floppy drive, 5MB RAM, VGA video card with 256KB RAM, 190-Watt, filtered, "steady state" power supply, 25MHZ 80386DX processor, 33MHz 80387 Math CoProcessor, 25MHZ 80385 cache controller with 32KB of 15NS hardware Cache memory, and engineering designed to work continuously without fail for years on end. That beast, so configured at the end of 1988 or the beginning of 1989, was the dream machine, and the reference standard by which the Ziff Davis mag writers compared all other machines, and Compaq would sell you one or as many as you wanted for a cool fourteen thousand dollars with a 14-inch VGA monitor and a keyboard, and Compaq DOS 4.0. Over ten years later, it stays on most of the time, now running with 13MB RAM, an Evergreen "Make it 486" upgrade processor that almost makes it an 80486DX2/50 machine, usually testing out at about 47 or 48MHz depending on how it feels today. We've got two floppy drives, a better VGA card, a GateWay CrystalScan 14-inch monitor, a wonderful Fujitsu keyboard, a desktop TrackPoint "mouse" and a Diamond Supra Espress 56K v.90 external modem; and that same old 314MB ESDI hard drive and controller. It all still works, and it's hardware is all completely Y2K compliant, as it always has been. For all I know, it might still work just fine ten years from now, and I bet you won't be able to say that for many of these cheap Pentium-based Chinese-made motherboard equipped systems that people are dragging out of the computer stores this week. This beast would laugh at things that might kill a lot of modern cheap systems. It's the old, tough, slow, tortoise who can live 100 years as opposed to the fast, brash rabbit that might not see more than a few short years and is easily
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
On 8 Mar 99 at 20:49, Ben A L Jemmett wrote: I like backplane-based designs myself... I thought about buying a kit once to let me build a weather satellite decoder, based around a Z80 on one card, a Yamaha MSX graphics processor on another and a decoder on a third. Just need the money. Can anyone explain please what is a backplane design, and how is it diffrant from mother-board design? (I quite liked Apple until they came up with the Mac. The Lisa was a cool machine.) Maybe, but it was also extremly costly. Or Botton [EMAIL PROTECTED] - "Truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense." - http://members.xoom.com/dsdp/ To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
Pete wrote: Well, OK, here it is: The mother board is a card that plugs into a slot board fixed to the bottom of the zenith's case. The slot board has eight slots on it, three of them are system slots, meaning you can't plug in ISA cards in to them. Ah, OK. That is not a mother board. A mother board is a combination board with CPU etc where periferals also plug into, such as we are used to in PC compatibles. What you call a "slot board" is what is corectly called a backplane. (Just for the sake of communication) g Personally, I thing the backplane design is a better one than that silly mother board thingy which has become so popular. I think the only reason we have them is because IBM started with that in order to make a cheap intergrated computer for personal use. (Anyone else have any comments on this?) snip then three system slots, mother board, then vidio board then flopy controller board. The cards have to remain in this order. The mother board has the keyboard plug on it and the case has a hole in it for the keyboard plug. I have two of these units and some extra cards, but it is a couple of years since I played with them. I didn't realize that the three system slots were different. Luckily (as you mention) the CPU card won't fit in the others anyway. snip When I try to boot the zenith I get a line or two of characters across the midle of the screen, and that's it. I may need a setup disk for it or some thing, I don't I don't recall needing a setup disk but maby it would have been useful. If I remember correctly, I just booted it normally. There were some problems though, that is why I abandoned them for the time being. I do think they're cool machines though, that is why I still have them sitting around. know. I have a plus hardcard 40 I can put in it. It is a 40 MB hard drive built on an 8 bit ISA card. Also I would Those are really useful. Just plug them in and away you go. I'm not sure how it works, but I just plugged one into my "new" 486 tester and it showed up as drive C and D (it has a small partition). Then, I installed a regular HDD as the C drive, and by golly . the hard card shows up as D and E. No fussing about. It's great! like to add memory to it if I ever get it working, now it has 640 K ram. and two 360 K flopys and uses an AMD 8088 CPU. I would also like to plugin an 8087 math co processor. I am not sure what I can do about the drives yet, I geus when I accumulate more parts I can try adding a 3.5 inch flopy. Hmmm, I don't think the bios will support anything other than double density. Those 720K drives are not all that useful IMHO, but it does help in transfering files. For anything more than a few files I normally just use an interlink cable for that though. Cheers, Ole Juul To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
Let's see, in 1984, Compaq released the first Compaq DeskPro personal computer, which was faster than the IBM XT. There were several reasons, that went far beyond the fact that the CPU was the 9.54MHz Intel 8086 processor instead of the 4.77MHz Intel 8088 processor in the IBM XT system. THe DeskPro had a better motherboard in several respects, even though it still had all 8-bit slots of the XT. They continued to use the exact same form-factor case for the DeskPro 286/12, which had two 8-bit slots and 6 16-bit slots, and an 12.5MHz Intel 80286 CPU. My DeskPro 386/25 Model 300 of November, 1988 BIOS date vintage used the same case as the original DeskPro. The DeskPro 386, the original 16-MHz 80386-based machine used the same case form factor as the DeskPro 286/8 with the 7.16MHz 80286. The DeskPro 386/20 used the same case as the 386/25. The DeskPro 386/33 and 386/33 EISA used a different case. There were numerous other 80286 and 80386-based Compaq DeskPro machines of different designs and with letter designators such as DeskPro S, M, N, E, among others. In the early 80286 days, IBM actually made an XT 286 machine, with all 8-bit slots, the XT case, and a 7.16MHz 80286 processor. I actually saw one of those beasts about three years ago, still working happily in somebody's home chugging along with DOS and WeirdPerfect 5.0. I've seen people successfully putting 80386 and 80486 motherboards into true IBM XT cases. My buddy who enjoyed doing that just because he could, first put a "Baby AT" board in an XT case. Since it ran an Intel 20MHz 386SX processor, he called it his "386SXT". The last I heard, the motherboard living in that case was an 80486 board with an AMD 80486DX2/80, running at a 50MHz bus speed, making it a "DX2/100" system, and it was running Windows 95. The proud legend on the front of the case still proclaims IBM PC XT! Several suppliers made 200-watt XT case power supplies, so power was not a problem. Anyway, think about how much startup power you needed to spin up one of those hulking 5MB full-height 5.25-inch form factor SeaGate ST-506 MFM hard drives, along with one of those hideous hulking 5.25-inch floppy drives, and one of those nasty CGA cards with as many as 86 different chips on it, not to mention all those 256K-by-1 bit and 64K-by-1-bit DRAM chips, and you wonder how they even thought a 63- or 65-watt power supply would be enough anyway! Actually, they quickly went to a 150-watt power supply. You could still flicker your overhead lights and drive your TV picture bonkers for a couple of seconds when you started up one of those beasts! I saw more than one 80286-based PC that couldn't hold a candle for real-world, get-the-job-done speed performance with that 9.54MHZ 8086-based Compaq DeskPro that I had, especially after I replaced the 9.54MHz 8086 CPU with the NEC V30 processor. Reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brent Reynolds, Atlanta, GA USA All computers wait at the same speed, Unless you got a bad Delay command. Net-Tamer V 1.11.2 - Registered To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
Chad A. Fernandez wrote re: 8086: I have heard the exact opposite.that the pin-outs were not compatible at all. That is a processor I wouldn't mind having, Though. Get a PS/2 model 25 or 30, there's lots of those floating around. I saw a model 25 with colour VGA for free a couple of days ago. I didn't pick it up though because I've already got a mono VGA one which I like better. The model 25 is one of my favourite classics... that's the one with the built in 12" VGA monitor that looks a bit like a Mac brick. Chad also wrote: I blew 4 keyboards in about 15 minutes, once. I tried them in a TI PC.which I found later runs it's keyboard at 12 volts!! Way to go! Hehehe, when you let the smoke out, it's really hard to get it back in! Yep, that's why technical expertise of any kind is worth so much money... it costs a lot to get. Cheers, Ole Juul To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
I stayed off quite while from this thread, but I thought I should trow in a related fact, which is that a friend of mine used his old XT full-tower box for almost all his computers. The last computer in that box IIRC was a Pentium 233. He only moved to an ATX case recently when he upgraded to Pentium 2 350MHz. He still keeps that box btw, and i'm sure he is intending to use it. (After years of using the same box with no problems you get pretty attached to it!) Or Botton [EMAIL PROTECTED] - "Truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense." - http://members.xoom.com/dsdp/ To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
I've seen people successfully putting 80386 and 80486 motherboards into true IBM XT cases. My buddy who enjoyed doing that just because he could, first put a "Baby AT" board in an XT case. Since it ran an Intel 20MHz 386SX processor, he called it his "386SXT". The last I heard, the motherboard living in that case was an 80486 board with an AMD 80486DX2/80, running at a 50MHz bus speed, making it a "DX2/100" system, and it was running Windows 95. The proud legend on the front of the case still proclaims IBM PC XT! Oh, almost like my 486DX2-80, but I don't use it - and would *never* put W95 on it. Wouldn't change the speed to DX2-100 either, there is enough problems with it as it is. The I/O card (VLB) likes to destroy harddrives (two for a friend, and one for me when I bought it back). The cases (two of them) are great when I get extra parts over that I can put together to a workable PC, but it's getting much harder to get hold on parts these days (since I don't want XT/ATs anymore and actually want fast 386/486 or slow Pentiums). Any "movable" PC would however be nice to have, 5 - 10 Kg isn't that much to carry around all day ;) //Bernie To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box? (tangent)
On 1999-03-06 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: My first computer was an XT *without* a HDD. I've seen many of them since. It was a great way for me to learn good file management. When I finally got a computer with a HDD, I was already fanatical about how I arranged the files. g My first computer was a Commodore Vic-20 without a floppy driveall I had was a tape drive :-) Copying software sure was cool..two tape decks and a patch cord :-) Yep, I like to have 5.25"HD drives in most of my computers too. I often come across old software on that media so its handy that way. Also, someone gave me about a hundred new disks a couple of years ago and I use them to archive my collection of utilities. There's not that much difference in space between a 1.2Meg and 1.44Meg floppy anyway. The drives from the XTs were DD (360) though, and not that useful. I do keep one machine with that capability however so that I can write disks for old machines. I put a full height 360K drive on my late model 386 :-) I don't have too much use for the 1.2meg drives because they don't work with the 360K floppies too well. My main reason for wanting a 5.25" drive is becasue of my IBM PC...it has two, but no HD. One thing I found a bit ugly is the use of tape to make them read only. What I do is install a little switch and and a status LED in the drives so that I can write to the disks whether they have the tape on them or not. When the switch is in the other position, it is impossible to write to them. This is the system of "SAFE/READY" modes which is normally used on professional tape machines. It's great for archive disks because you don't have to worry about ruining them, just leave the swich in "SAFE" mode as the default. Thats a neat ideaI have heard of Apple drives being converted to work that way. I didn't know it would work on a PC drive, However. Chad A. Fernandez Battle Creek, MI Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Test Drive To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box? (tangent)
Bernie wrote: Didn't the XT also have a HD as standard? Please remember that I got into the PC buisness when AT was brand new, so My first computer was an XT *without* a HDD. I've seen many of them since. It was a great way for me to learn good file management. When I finally got a computer with a HDD, I was already fanatical about how I arranged the files. g I have (almost) never actually used a XT, did pick four of them apart for spare parts (screws, jumpers, I/O cables, floppies (it is cool to have a 5.25" drive in a brand new PC) etc.) //Bernie Yep, I like to have 5.25"HD drives in most of my computers too. I often come across old software on that media so its handy that way. Also, someone gave me about a hundred new disks a couple of years ago and I use them to archive my collection of utilities. There's not that much difference in space between a 1.2Meg and 1.44Meg floppy anyway. The drives from the XTs were DD (360) though, and not that useful. I do keep one machine with that capability however so that I can write disks for old machines. One thing I found a bit ugly is the use of tape to make them read only. What I do is install a little switch and and a status LED in the drives so that I can write to the disks whether they have the tape on them or not. When the switch is in the other position, it is impossible to write to them. This is the system of "SAFE/READY" modes which is normally used on professional tape machines. It's great for archive disks because you don't have to worry about ruining them, just leave the swich in "SAFE" mode as the default. Cheers, Ole Juul To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
Pete wrote: Cool, here is what I want to do. I have a CGA monotor, and a zenith xt, the monotor is in good shape, the zenith is not. I think one of the system cards finally gave out. I have been hanging on to it in hopes I could find boards parts ect, to get it to work. Short of that maybe put in another mother board. Hmm, the Zeniths which I have seen did not have a mother board. Maby I'm wrong, but I thought that Zenith _always_ used a backplane. Any Zenith experts here? I have come across a couple of these at the dump and they're way cool. A little difficult to get along with for a "clone" guy like me however. One thing which is really nice though is the row of LEDs on the processor board which light up in sequence to show the progression of the POST. Nce and techie! I think that Zenith was labouring under the delusion that quality was a way to compete. g I have an old spequalizer, it is a hard ware only screenreader synthiser, it plugs in to an 8 bit isa slot, wont work on any thing faster than 10 MHZ, so I would like to put togather a xt to use whith it. I am not too familar whith xt mother boards, slots memory or what the boards look like. Ideas on how to proceed are welcome. Thanks! Many computers can run at 10 MHZ and below. Then again, there's always the turbo button. You could probably find a 286 in that range. Also many XTs were 10MHZ. Those speed devils are not so pricey any more. VBG In fact, if you live in a larger city, you could probably convince someone to pay YOU to remove it. Hehe. BTW, are you talking about bus speed or processor speed? When it comes to bus speed, any ISA bus should do. Cheers, Ole Juul To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
On 1999-03-05 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: One thing I've always wanted to try was putting an 8086 chip in place of the 8088 on an original PC - IIRC they have the same pin-out. I have heard the exact opposite.that the pin-outs were not compatible at all. That is a processor I wouldn't mind having, Though. Of course, there was always the PC-XT286 - this is about the time I get confused and run away screaming. Thats just a 286 in an XT case, I think. It's been awhile since I read about it in "How to upgrade and Repair PC's". switch as soon as you press a key it does the same thing. Pity it's dead now... I blew 4 keyboards in about 15 minutes, once. I tried them in a TI PC.which I found later runs it's keyboard at 12 volts!! Chad A. Fernandez Battle Creek, MI Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Test Drive To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
One thing I've always wanted to try was putting an 8086 chip in place of the 8088 on an original PC - IRK they have the same pin-out. I have heard the exact opposite.that the pin-outs were not compatible at all. That is a processor I wouldn't mind having, Though. Hmmm... internally the chips are the same, with an 8-bit bus on the 8088 instead of the 16-bit on the 8086 - so I guess there must be 8 more/different pins on the 8086. Must be my memory playing tricks on me. Regards, Home page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/8786 Ben A L JemmettICQ: 9848866 JGSD e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- 'INSERT SOME CORNY QUOTE HERE' --- To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box? (bu
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999 03:53:00 GMT Dave Ratti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hope this wasn't excessively large. Thanks Dave, very informative. I have not evern seen an EISA bus connector before and now I think I could recognize it. Well done. Dave Regards, Dale Mentzer To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:28:26 +1000 Ben Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, a 486 would have used it! VLB was the best bus for a few years during 486's, before the Pentiums. Most 486s had them, but some 486DX4's had PCI and a few even had both VLB/PCI. Same with P60. I have never seen a mobo with VLB and PCI. I would love to find one of those as it is getting harder and harder to find peripherals in ISA card format. So much stuff is PCI now. Any idea where a fellow traveler could find one of those? Thanks. Regards, Dale Mentzer To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box? (bus tangent)
Date:Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:02:30 +0500 From:"Chad A. Fernandez" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: new box? On 1999-03-03 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: My first PC was a locally built clone XT (with both 8 bit and 16 bit bus slots. You had an 8088, with 16-bit ISA slots??? Sorry, its been a few years, since I saw that board, it probably didn't have 16 bit slots. That wouldn't make any sense would it, since the XT bus was 8-bit. Date:Fri, 5 Mar 1999 03:53:00 GMT From:Dave Ratti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: new box? (bus tangent) Bernie OK, You asked for it, so here goes - (snip ) Excellant and a lot of work. Thank-you. From your description am I correct in assuming that 8-bit cards will work in expansion slots up through VLB (that the 8-bit portion of the bus is the same on XT and AT)? To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box? (bu
Bernie - OK, You asked for it, so here goes - Thanx, I think I understand the diffrence now :) Hope this wasn't excessively large. I don't complain, since the info was usefull. Dave //Bernie To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
On 1999-03-05 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Well, a 486 would have used it! VLB was the best bus for a few years during 486's, before the Pentiums. Most 486s had them, but some 486DX4's had PCI and a few even had both VLB/PCI. Same with P60. The VLB slowed the PCI down a bit. I remember hearing that back in about 94the motherboards with both PCI and VLB are a little slower than a PCI/ISA motherboard. I say PCI/ISA because almost ALL motherboards that are PCI still have a few ISA slots. Chad A. Fernandez Battle Creek, MI Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Test Drive To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
An 8086 is not an AT. I don't think any true IBM compatibles used the 8086, but am not sure. The Amstrad PC1000's and the PC2086 were IBM compatible (they did have some non-standard hardware - the 1512 had 16-colour CGA, the 1640 could have it as an option, both the 1512 and the 1640 have NVRs to save settings like a CMOS) and they had an 8086 processor - some (like my original 1512) have the slightly faster NEC V30 - it has some 286 instructions as well - fitted instead. One thing I've always wanted to try was putting an 8086 chip in place of the 8088 on an original PC - IIRC they have the same pin-out. Of course, there was always the PC-XT286 - this is about the time I get confused and run away screaming. Re: switchable keyboards, I had an XT/AT switchable on my old Elonex 286. Set it to AT it works, flick over to XT and the controller goes mental - upon boot-up it beeps and flashes the LEDs twice a second, if the thing is already running and you flick the switch as soon as you press a key it does the same thing. Pity it's dead now... Regards, Home page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/8786 Ben A L JemmettICQ: 9848866 JGSD e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- 'INSERT SOME CORNY QUOTE HERE' --- To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
Well, a 486 would have used it! VLB was the best bus for a few years during 486's, before the Pentiums. Most 486s had them, but some 486DX4's had PCI and a few even had both VLB/PCI. Same with P60. My first 8086 PC was a 486DX2/66 (circa 1993/4) - the motherboard had the standard 8 ISA 16-bit slots, with the three sets of solder pads for VLB connectors (I've never seen a PC with more than 3 VLB slots - or was it 4? Hmm). The guys who built this m/b had got all the right chips to support VLB, so as soon as the board was retired I tried to attach the VLB edge connectors - pity I wasn't wearing my glasses really, it'll never run again :(... My Pentium motherboard (circa 1997) has the same arrangement, 2 ISA, 3 PCI, 1 ISA/PCI slot - the three ISAs have the grid of solder pads at the base for some reason, even though the m/b won't take anything slower than P100s, which I've never seen used with VLB... Mass production I s'pose. IIRC, there was two camps fighting each other: VLB and PCI. VLB was cheaper and initially won many customers, but PCI is better technically and adopted as Pentium standard - mostly used still even in PII. Well VLB also has the advantage that you can run an ISA card in the VLB slot... Also, I think I've seen a few cards that'll run in either an ISA or VLB slot - autodetecting which... Bit like old 8/16-bit cards worked. PCI, OTOH, is not backward compatible at all - this means the design can be more efficient. It also had the backing of Intel - the PCI bus is a direct connection to a P5 and above IIRC, with a PCI-to-ISA bridge chip somewhere along the line. VLB was the VESA Local Bus - designed by the Video Electronics Standards Association for fast cards like video adapters (naturally). PCI-X (the new one - I think that's the correct term) is not being designed by Intel though, which might be interesting... although I think it would be a rather bad idea for Intel to launch a competing standard just to regain control - IBM did similar with MCA, and look how popular *that* is today. Regards, Home page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/8786 Ben A L JemmettICQ: 9848866 JGSD e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- 'INSERT SOME CORNY QUOTE HERE' --- To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box? (bu
Dale - You are correct in your assumption, but only if the 8-bit card will run at the ISA bus speed the motherboard uses. Some older 8-bit cards won't run reliably at 4.77MHz, since they were designed for the PC and XT, not the later "TurboXT" that eventually became the ISA 8-bit standard. Most CMOS Setup programs have an option to set the ISA bus speed, typically to the CPU clock speed divided by some small integer, like 3, 4, or 5. For example, a 386DX-33 with a divisor of 4 would be running the ISA bus at 8.25MHz, close enough to the spec that it shouldn't matter. Using a divisor of 3 would yield an ISA bus speed of 11MHz - Not a good idea, there are I/O cards that just won't work at that speed, for instance the Media Vision Pro Audio sound cards. Dave To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
[- Hoody's Virtual Avenue: http://hoody.virtualave.net/ -] [-- Home of PostHaste, Arachne Webring plus lots more! --] All humans are subject to decay. * PostHaste and Arachne FORWARDED MESSAGE [[SURVPC] Re: new box?] BEGIN From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [SURVPC] Re: new box? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 19:46:24 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Original Article: http://www.egroups.com/list/survpc/?start=4662 [snip] Excuse me? I have 2 XTs and I can use both there cases for any 386/486/Pentium that has an AT MB. I thought this was a standard? Now my Pentium is sitting in an ATX case for Pentium Pro and P3. (P2 is a Pentium Pro MMX, and is therefor slower on 16-bit operations then even a 486 on some occasions) //Bernie [snip] Not quite. The P2 was slightly modified from the PPro core to bolster 16-bit performance to faster-than-Pentium levels. Robert - FORWARDED MESSAGE [[SURVPC] Re: new box?] END - To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
On 1999-03-03 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Well, I might well run into the power supply problem but in point of truth there was no case in evidence that would fit this very large 386 MB. Indeed, I've not seen one that large, I'd likely have to find another of the computers this motherboard came from. I'll just build it onto something! It is possible that the 386 MB that you have is not a standard AT board. I think there is a greater chance of the 8088 you bought being a non-standard design, However. Do you find a brand name on the outside of the 8088's case anywhere? Texas Instruements, Zenith, Compaq, etc, etc ??? Chad A. Fernandez Battle Creek, MI Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Test Drive To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
how is there room on the MB? There isn't and I got the card separately, all by itself, a toss away from somebody else. OH! I thought you asked what a bus on the MB was for, sorry. My reply was therefor useless (atleast for you right now.) Sorry! //Bernie To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
Speeking of XT's, does any one have an old XT mother board they want to get rid of? Pete I got 2 I don't need/use at the moment. You can get them for the shipping cost (but where do you live? Since I'm in Sweden it will rpobably be really expansive getting them to the US (or Australia for that matter.)) //Bernie To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
On Monday, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed: ] What do you mean the card takes two slots in a row? ] ] it is double long. it has long slide, short slide, long slide, short ] slide. Like if two ISA slots were lined end to end. ] Can't use the card. This is probably a VLB card: VESA Local Bus, what most 486's use as a 32 bit bus: slower than PCI but faster than ISA. Cheaper than PCI. -- [- Hoody's Virtual Avenue: http://hoody.virtualave.net/ -] [-- Home of PostHaste, Arachne Webring plus lots more! --] * PostHaste and Arachne To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box? (tangent)
On 1999-03-02 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Excuse me? I have 2 XTs and I can use both there cases for any 386/486/Pentium that has an AT MB. I thought this was a standard? AT, yesbut the XT preceeded the AT. An XT board is a lot like an AT board, but I have noticed that a few of the holes are off a little. I haven't ever been able to fit an XT board into a more modern case to my satisfaction because of this. Now my Pentium is sitting in an ATX case for Pentium Pro and P3. (P2 is a Pentium Pro MMX, P3?? Didn't that just come out day Monday?? I have never heard of the P2 being a PPro MMXnot saying it's not true, thoughjust never heard it. People often confuse the XT with the PC. It is a common mistake which wouldn't be possible if they had both in front of them. I did :-) I bought two XT's for $35, one crashed (permanetly) and I tried swapping motherboards..then I realized, "Hey these things are different!" That is when I found out about the PC and XT. Previously I didn't know they were two different computers. g The XT has 8 slots with standard spaceing. The PC has 5 which are spaced diffently and so cannot be used with anything other than the PC board. The PC, BTW, is the one with the relay and extra DIN connector for the cassette interface ... very cool. I still have my $35/2 PC.I am thinking about selling it, However. I just saw one on Ebay for over $300, and it wasn't even perfect!!! It has "smudged" characters on the keyboard, and no documentation, or software. It did have the original boxes, but in poor shape. Mine has a few scratches, but I have some of the original manuals and software. Additionlly the one on Ebay looked like it might have an aftermarket video card, but I have 2 different originals (CGA and MDA). OH...and the $300+ was bid that highit wasn't just somebody with a dream and no bids!! I could sell my "original" one and rebuild my "parts" IBM PC with a few "period" aftermarket mods and still have a cool computer and be $300+ richer!!! Increddible!!! Chad A. Fernandez Battle Creek, MI Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Test Drive To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
it is double long. it has long slide, short slide, long slide, short slide. Like if two ISA slots were lined end to end. Can't use the card. Do you mean ISA or EISA? Your "drawing" looks like two EISA slots. But that doesn't help us finding out what kind it is, how is there room on the MB? What do you mean by "slide"? Do you mean the edge connector on the card is too long? If so, it might be a VLB card. Yes, it's like two isa connections end to end. lemme try to draw it What colour is it? Sometimes you can find out what sort they are this way. Colour scheme: ISA = black EISA = black (ExtendedISA, so it's a bit longer then a ISA) MCA = ? (used in some(?) IBM PS/2 instead of EISA) VLB = brown (rather hard to insert cards into, you need ca 40-50 N of preasure on them, so they can brake!) PCI = white //Bernie To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
Seriously though, Your 386 board will not fit into an XT box; even the bus slots are spaced differently on most XTs, and you can damage your expansion cards or even ruin them, not to mention the mounting slots for the motherboard being different. And the MFM (or RTL) hard drive is no where in the category of your IDE, and it is questionable as to whether you can combine them in the same box. Others on the list will know for sure whether their different kinds of controllers can work together. IMHO it is only good for a paperweight. I have about half a dozen and they aren't worth the cost of shipping anywhere. Excuse me? I have 2 XTs and I can use both there cases for any 386/486/Pentium that has an AT MB. I thought this was a standard? Now my Pentium is sitting in an ATX case for Pentium Pro and P3. (P2 is a Pentium Pro MMX, and is therefor slower on 16-bit operations then even a 486 on some occasions) //Bernie To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
for the motherboard being different. And the MFM (or RTL) hard drive is no where in the category of your IDE, and it is questionable as to whether you can combine them in the same box. Others on the list will know for sure whether their different kinds of controllers can work together. I've never managed it - the controller in this case would have a BIOS to drive it, including a drive geometry specification - sometimes hardwired into the firmware. An IDE card is basically just an extension to the bus, and the code to drive these is mainly in the PC's BIOS, along with setup. Getting an IDE card into a machine without an IDE-aware BIOS won't work, adding the MFM/RLL card to an IDE box will probably meet with very little success. Regards, Home page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/8786 Ben A L JemmettICQ: 9848866 JGSD e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- 'INSERT SOME CORNY QUOTE HERE' --- To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
At 07:08 PM 3/2/99 -, you wrote: How old was the PC? And who wrote the BIOSes? Because I *really* want to see this thing actually work, it's been bugging me for years now... They have at least four more down there, plus even older systems if you can believe it. they have probably a hundred commodore 64s and a large array of tandy 100s and so forth, including a few strange beasts with no labels. Come on out and browse! My XT is already chopped up. I wanted to run it first but didn't have a monitor that worked on it so I'd never have known what was going on. I just decided to take it apart as I'd bought it to do. bye, Yolanda UIN 4898262 http://members.home.net/pippi5 The Gallery of Regrettable Food! http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/index.html a fun URL instead of a tag line... To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
At 06:45 PM 3/2/99 -, you wrote: Getting an IDE card into a machine without an IDE-aware BIOS won't work, adding the MFM/RLL card to an IDE box will probably meet with very little success. I really had no intention of using that controller from the xt on the 386 as it clearly wasn't compatible, having parts on it that the 386 carries on the motherboard. I have to go magic up a controller to do the job, possibly that one my BF's roommate offered me, if he ever finds it after moving house. bye, Yolanda UIN 4898262 http://members.home.net/pippi5 The Gallery of Regrettable Food! http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/index.html a fun URL instead of a tag line... To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
Bernie wrote: Excuse me? I have 2 XTs and I can use both there cases for any 386/486/Pentium that has an AT MB. I thought this was a standard? Now my Pentium is sitting in an ATX case for Pentium Pro and P3. (P2 is a Pentium Pro MMX, and is therefor slower on 16-bit operations then even a 486 on some occasions) //Bernie You're right, the XT case *can* be used for AT boards. I use a couple of the old flip-top cases because they're funky and friendly. People often confuse the XT with the PC. It is a common mistake which wouldn't be possible if they had both in front of them. g The XT has 8 slots with standard spaceing. The PC has 5 which are spaced diffently and so cannot be used with anything other than the PC board. The PC, BTW, is the one with the relay and extra DIN connector for the cassette interface ... very cool. Cheers, Ole Juul To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
At 04:38 PM 2/28/99 +0500, you wrote: On 1999-02-27 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Went out yesterday and laid down forty dollars. Got a pc of ancient pre-86 vintage and a 3.5"floppy drive. Well, it sounds like you bought an XT (8088). The $40 you spent must have been mainly for the floppy drive, assuming it is a laptop drive. No, that was $10. He has all his old pc's priced at $50 and I bartered him down. It has a hard drive though so that's cool Prices here are higher and ppl think their old beasts have value. What do you mean the card takes two slots in a row? it is double long. it has long slide, short slide, long slide, short slide. Like if two ISA slots were lined end to end. Can't use the card. I don't mean to be a downer, but it probably would be a lot easier if you bought a whole working computer. It was, a whole working 8088. I want to put the 386 motherboard into it. Except the case doesn't fit so I'll have to create something there. You could take it apart and clean it...then put it all back together. That would still give you a good experience AND a nice computer. I didn't buy it for that. He has plenty more beastie 8088s sitting there if I want one for that. Actually, there's a nice cp/m apricot complete with manuals, matching monitor and keyboard for $65 that I want but it's not likely to be much good other than collecting, no hard drive, two 3.25 floppy drives, likely the low density ones. No software on the side... 386's don't go for very much on EBAY. For instance a Digital 386dx33 still hasn't gotten a bids and the start price is only about $14. That doesn't include the monitor, keyboard, etc, but you already had that. Yeah, but with shipping and the nasty exchange rate to USD from canadian it gets way too much. figure double the price in the exchange and duty and add 10%, all after figuring the shipping! Okay, that's not very accurate, but a good rule of thumb. I avoid purchasing from the States. If the computer you bought for parts is indeed an XT the controller will be for a MFM drive. Yes, it had a hard drive and 5.5 drive (which is now in my main computer) both with slide connectors. I would like to use the hard drive, it has two slides and a power so I guess it's what you call MFM drive (don't know what that is) Anyway, I have a 400MB western digital Caviar I want to park with it. You probably want (or have) an IDE drive. I think I might have a controller, but I am not sure if it has the floppy controller that you will almost certainly need. I'd let it go for a couple of bucks above shipping. I think I found one free that will do, but I'll keep your offer in mind, its generous and thankyou. MB whuzzat? modem don't need it, gonna go LAN floppy/HD controller (soemtimes has serial and paralel too) video card These two I need before I can do ANYTHING more power supply That's why I bought the 8088, so I'd have it's power supply, switches, etc. (also wanted its floppy) floppy drive (3.5" 1.44meg should work fine on a 386) yes, need one of these, am looking some more. hard drive Got that floppy cable HD cable memory (sometimes permanetly on motherboard) got that, and cables are dirt cheap bought new. case I have this crazy vision of it laid out all spidery on a tin coated piece of plywood and nailed up on the wall. Not very portable, but turns it into interesting art. Stays cool too. Maybe make a frame for it to dress it up, paint the tin in crazy colors, put paint on other paintable surfaces, get creative! I wouldn't wory about hooking up lights and button yetthat can be done later as you will probably have quite a time getting some of the stuff working together. want to hook up lights and button, when I know where... yes, it will be an interesting challenge. At least there is no pressure to finish it like when I'm mucking with my main computer that I work on. I would get a normal drive. I think you would have a hard time finding any kind of interface to install a laptop drive into a desktop computer. Yes, I think you are right. I'm feeling inspired to try and start a virtual barter site on my webspace, but only for local people or I suppose if a person wants to cover the shipping because they want the item that badly. I wish we had local swap meets for computer pieces. Hope I have been some helpand not too discourging. nope, not discouraging at all, confirmed things I thought and identified the name of the beast I bought. Thanks! bye, Yolanda UIN 4898262 http://members.home.net/pippi5 I went to school to become a wit, only got halfway through.. To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
On 1999-03-01 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: No, that was $10. He has all his old pc's priced at $50 and I bartered him down. It has a hard drive though so that's cool Prices here are higher and ppl think their old beasts have value. I guess I forgot about the exchange rate.I guess $50 Canadien would be about $35 US. it is double long. it has long slide, short slide, long slide, short slide. Like if two ISA slots were lined end to end. Can't use the card. What do you mean by "slide"? Do you mean the edge connector on the card is too long? If so, it might be a VLB card. It was, a whole working 8088. I want to put the 386 motherboard into it. Except the case doesn't fit so I'll have to create something there. Well, I meant a whole working 386, but I guess that might be expensive in Canada. If the computer you bought for parts is indeed an XT the controller will be for a MFM drive. Yes, it had a hard drive and 5.5 drive (which is now in my main computer) both with slide connectors. I would like to use the hard drive, it has two slides and a power so I guess it's what you call MFM drive (don't know what that is) Anyway, I have a 400MB western digital Caviar I want to park with it. MFM is one of the kinds of hard drives we had before IDE (Your WD Caviar is probably IDE) MB whuzzat? motherboard floppy/HD controller (soemtimes has serial and paralel too) video card These two I need before I can do ANYTHING more I thought you had a source for the HD controller for free? Unless you mean a floppy controller, usually they are combined on one card nowdays. floppy drive (3.5" 1.44meg should work fine on a 386) yes, need one of these, am looking some more. I have one on Ebay :-) I have this crazy vision of it laid out all spidery on a tin coated piece of plywood and nailed up on the wall. Not very portable, but turns it into interesting art. Stays cool too. Maybe make a frame for it to dress it up, paint the tin in crazy colors, put paint on other paintable surfaces, get creative! I would skip the tin.too easy to short something if it isn't perfectly flat. the item that badly. I wish we had local swap meets for computer pieces. That would be nice. I get some stuff at the computer show which is held about every 4 to 6 week, It is mainly for new stuff, but usually some old stuff too. Goodwill will have something every once in a while, too. Chad A. Fernandez Battle Creek, MI Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Test Drive To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
Re: [SURVPC] new box?
At 11:58 AM 3/1/99 +0500, you wrote: On 1999-03-01 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I guess I forgot about the exchange rate.I guess $50 Canadien would be about $35 US. or less. Not only is there exchange consideration but it seems that even after exchange the US dollar is worth more in terms of purchase power. When all is said and done, you could buy about $25 worth of US stuff with $50 CAN. Unless you actually go to the states with it exchanged at a fair rate and smuggle the products back... Duty, exchange and money order fees, shipping, sales tax on all of the above. it is double long. it has long slide, short slide, long slide, short slide. Like if two ISA slots were lined end to end. Can't use the card. What do you mean by "slide"? Do you mean the edge connector on the card is too long? If so, it might be a VLB card. Yes, it's like two isa connections end to end. lemme try to draw it well, that's only close, and only if the lines will match up after I send the mail Well, I meant a whole working 386, but I guess that might be expensive in Canada. Yup, a 286 is about $100, 386 about $250, 486 runs from $350 to $500 depending on what's in it. Monitors and keyboards and mice extra. Printers not included. MFM is one of the kinds of hard drives we had before IDE (Your WD Caviar is probably IDE) Yes, it is. I thought you had a source for the HD controller for free? Unless you mean a floppy controller, usually they are combined on one card nowdays. I have a source, but until I have the card I still need one. A source is only a hope, never a fact. Only holding it in my hand is a fact. He could change his mind and keep it, or give it to someone else or it could break while he's moving house today. Might even get lost. I have one on Ebay :-) that american purchase thing again, and I have no credit cards. I would skip the tin.too easy to short something if it isn't perfectly flat. Doesn't it need to be resting on metal so it'll ground properly? If not, what's the trick to ensure it's all well grounded? Goodwill will have something every once in a while, too. This small city isn't very old and is surrounded by farmland. The area was homesteaded only 100 years ago. the high tech stuff exists, but in small quantity as mostly it's about rural services and people didn't charge into the tech fields right away. The XTs at Handyman's Haven, tucked in behind bathtubs and salvaged doors and other renovations junk are the system the school board replaced with Pentiums recently to become Y2K compliant. Nobody else in town will deal the stuff. I asked one fellow why and he said that by the time it sells it's depreciated to less than he paid for it and no way to make a profit on it. bye, Yolanda UIN 4898262 http://members.home.net/pippi5 We're learning just as fast as we can, holding on to one another's hand To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
[SURVPC] new box?
Went out yesterday and laid down forty dollars. Got a pc of ancient pre-86 vintage and a 3.5"floppy drive. Well, I took the beast apart and was amazed to see the clock battery and drive connectors on a separate board. Whatever, I packed them up. The case doesn't fit the motherboard I have (a giant 386, thanks Boanne!) So I just set it to the side and tried laying out what parts I had, looking for matches. Okay, so far I have no suitable vid card, my monitor is vga but both the vid cards i have are cga except the svga which needs two isa slots in a row. Don't have that, so forget that card. So, I have a hard disk, and a 5.25" floppy drive, sound card, and 8meg memory card that work. Keyboard and mouse too. I have cables and wires, pc speaker with, led and switch panel with wires, power supply with switches and the motherboard with bolts to hold it up off the surface. The floppy I bought is weird, I think it's made for a laptop so I guess I might not be able to use it. It's really slim and has no power input, just a really short ribbon cable. I think I'll need an IO controller card, though perhaps the one that came with the beast would work. I doubt it. okay, so where would I find specs on the motherboard, or at least start my search? So I can find out what it has or needs and where to plug in the various wires. What other cards will I need to make it simply function, never mind networking or modems? I dont plan to hook up a printer either. What I want this one for is just to play with different O/S's to learn to use them and see how they work. Is it possible to hook up the 3.5" floppy drive to this pc or will I have to find someone to barter it with? No rush, I have, as I said, to fix the monitor problem and likely track down an I/O floppy controller too. bye, Yolanda UIN 4898262 http://members.home.net/pippi5 How do you get holy water? Boil the hell out of it To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message. Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
