Fwd: Re: [biofuels-biz] waste oil burners burning glycerine, ffa's
--- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, Michael Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My guess is that he was talking about unconventional liquid fuels in general. I think the effect was first noted by the British Army some 60 years ago when they burned sump oil to keep warm in the deserts of north Africa. I'm sorry I no longer have the references but drip-plate burner designs developed at that time have been published. They also noted that used-sump oil containing some water burned cleaner than new engine oil. The water in the fuel has two advantages: In expands explosively to steam and so aids the production of fine oil droplets. And the water vapour reacts with any deposited carbon to form carbon monoxide and hydrogen which happily burn to give more heat. I guess people don't often stop to think that liquid fuels are not themselves flammable: it is the vapour which they form that burns. So anything you can do to increase the rate of vapour production (such as atomising the fuel and pre-heating both it and the air needed for combustion) increases the rate of vapour production which leads to smooth controllable combustion. (Water containing emulsions and separate water sprays have also been used with internal combustion engines to increase efficiency but that is another story) Dissolved or emulsified water can therefore be beneficial because it aids atomisation of the fuel to small droplets and it also turns soot into combustible gases. Provided the water content is not too high, the latent heat required is more than matched by the improved combustion efficiency. 5% to 10% by weight is probably about right for fuels with a high calorific value but IMO perhaps half that should be used with glycerol to avoid chilling the flame. Incidentally, I used one of these British Army designs to make carbon black (channel black) in a small brick unit with a roof made from small pieces of railway line. That may give you a clue as to what happens if heat losses are high! (And the oil we used did contain some water). Insulating the plate (and the whole combustion chamber) with suitable ceramics is indeed a great help in sustaining combustion from fuels with a low calorific value such as glycerol. So, of course, is mixing it with a fuel of a higher calorific value. If anyone is interested in a suitable low-cost insulating material, let me know. Michael Allen 15/01/03 02:24:18, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Several contributors have spoken about drip plates. I was advised by a prof. of fuel science that dissolving 5% water in the glyc. would cause it to vaporise explosively on contact with the hot plate, so improving atomisation and combustion completeness. Obviously, you would lose the latent heat in the steam, but at 5%, that would be rather small. Anyway, it would be quite easy to try for those with a working furnace. David T. Hi David Was he talking specifically about glyc, or about the complete by-product, with soap/FFA and catalyst? Best Keith Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Hello again
--- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all Sorry, that took a bit longer than expected (what a surprise - doesn't everything?). So we moved house, as well as project, to a small village in Ichijima Prefecture. The move went fine, but... Another story, or several, for later, not uninteresting, and pertinent to some previous threads. Second but - computer problems, or rather keyboard problems, so I was unable to connect until Saturday, and all I could accomplish then was to clear some backlogged messages. Including one from a guy who'd decided his previous message, still backlogged from the day before, had been censored because this list did not consider it as politically correct. Sheesh! I did say things might be a bit slow until I managed to get online again, but I thought that might happen. Thanks for your understanding, pal. :-( Anyway, keyboard's working fine now - got all clogged up with city dust in Osaka. We had a nice clean modern flat there, but still it was dusty. Where does all this dust come from?? I wanted to take it apart and clean it, as I've often done before, but, um, you can't do that with a G4 keyboard, it doesn't come apart. They designed it for some other planet I guess. I asked a Mac list, one guy told me to put it in the dishwasher. I thought he was kidding, but several others said the same - soap and warm water, rinse thoroughly, dry thoroughly. And it worked, amazing - good as new. Meanwhile we've found a couple of diesel vans, and we'll buy one of them by the weekend. Then we're in business - lots of potential round here. Too much to do right now, and I haven't read all the incoming messages over the last few days yet. I'll catch up soon, meanwhile no more delays on moderator tasks and so on. And no, no censorship either thankyou, and sod anything called PC. Best Keith --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: North America's first Pedestrian Charter
--- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Toronto has recently become the first city in North America to adopt a Pedestrian Charter. Spearheaded by Toronto Food Policy Council member Janice Etter and her citizen colleague Rhona Swarbrick, the Charter includes one clause identifying a crucial issue for people advocating on behalf of all neighbourhoods' rights to access quality food retail outlets: namely, the right to access basic amenities by foot. Change is afoot. To read the Pedestrian Charter, go to http://www.toronto.ca/pedestrian/. For background and advice on how to develop a Pedestrian Charter for your area, contact Janice at [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- End forwarded message ---
Re: [biofuels-biz] waste oil burners burning glycerine, ffa's
mike, iwould be interested in low-cost insulating materials if you have that info. regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) My guess is that he was talking about unconventional liquid fuels in general. I think the effect was first noted by the British Army some 60 years ago when they burned sump oil to keep warm in the deserts of north Africa. I'm sorry I no longer have the references but drip-plate burner designs developed at that time have been published. They also noted that used-sump oil containing some water burned cleaner than new engine oil. The water in the fuel has two advantages: In expands explosively to steam and so aids the production of fine oil droplets. And the water vapour reacts with any deposited carbon to form carbon monoxide and hydrogen which happily burn to give more heat. I guess people don't often stop to think that liquid fuels are not themselves flammable: it is the vapour which they form that burns. So anything you can do to increase the rate of vapour production (such as atomising the fuel and pre-heating both it and the air needed for combustion) increases the rate of vapour production which leads to smooth controllable combustion. (Water containing emulsions and separate water sprays have also been used with internal combustion engines to increase efficiency but that is another story) Dissolved or emulsified water can therefore be beneficial because it aids atomisation of the fuel to small droplets and it also turns soot into combustible gases. Provided the water content is not too high, the latent heat required is more than matched by the improved combustion efficiency. 5% to 10% by weight is probably about right for fuels with a high calorific value but IMO perhaps half that should be used with glycerol to avoid chilling the flame. Incidentally, I used one of these British Army designs to make carbon black (channel black) in a small brick unit with a roof made from small pieces of railway line. That may give you a clue as to what happens if heat losses are high! (And the oil we used did contain some water). Insulating the plate (and the whole combustion chamber) with suitable ceramics is indeed a great help in sustaining combustion from fuels with a low calorific value such as glycerol. So, of course, is mixing it with a fuel of a higher calorific value. If anyone is interested in a suitable low-cost insulating material, let me know. Michael Allen 15/01/03 02:24:18, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Several contributors have spoken about drip plates. I was advised by a prof. of fuel science that dissolving 5% water in the glyc. would cause it to vaporise explosively on contact with the hot plate, so improving atomisation and combustion completeness. Obviously, you would lose the latent heat in the steam, but at 5%, that would be rather small. Anyway, it would be quite easy to try for those with a working furnace. David T. Hi David Was he talking specifically about glyc, or about the complete by-product, with soap/FFA and catalyst? Best Keith Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Fwd: Re: Fiat UNO Diesel on Biodiesel?
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Poch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: your right about the gemini diesel cars-- i almost forgot about them. (head hits computer screen!!) now i remember when they were lots of this cars being used as taxis cause they were so cheap and reliable. the government started to ban them during the early nineties on the antipollution drive and to pressure the taxi franchisers to renew their fleet of taxis. i believe i can get a better deal with this car. hey thanks a lot man! and if i use biodiesel on it i won't be worried about the government's on the street anti-smoke belching drives cause my car would be running clean. Cheers Poch [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: RE: [biofuel] Re: Fiat UNO Diesel on Biodiesel?
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Juan Boveda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Poch. About compact cars and small diesel engine cars, Have you check the following cars in Manila: Toyota's cars like Corsa 1.5 L (same size of the Fiat UNO) and Corolla 1.8 L Daihatsu Charade 1.0 L and 1.2 L (same size of the Fiat UNO) Nissan Sunny 1.7 L GM or Isuzu Gemini like the ones described by J. Alonso in another mail. Most of them consume low amounts of fuel. In Paraguay, South America they were imported from Japan, half world away, the problem with them are the spare parts availability and cost of transportation up to here, it might be more simple for you to find the spare parts in Asia for japanese cars. I still have an italian Fiat UNO DS with a 1.3 L engine because I can find spare parts that matches the original italian's, they are coming from our neighbourhood countries Argentina and Brazil, it is much easy and cheap to import from there but not from far away countries like Italy. I had to rebuild the engine during this hollydays and to give you an example, the price a set of the original italian pistons and rings cost as much as US $ 350, compare this with the pistons and rings set made in Argentina that cost US $ 142 :-) Juan -- Poch wrote: thanks for the input. but its still tempting cause of the great deal, maybe if i maintain the car really well like frequent oil changes. theres not much choices on small diesel cars here in manila,im really looking for a subcompact diesel car in the 1 to 1.9 liter range. the smaller the engine the smaller the consumption of fuel, wvoil is somewhat scarce here cause people rarely throw away anything. the big fastfood stores already has a company that pickups their oil. i have already determined that i can get get wvoils that would be enough for my daily fuel consumption assuming im using a small engine. the stalls that deep fry pork crackers are the ones with the greatest potential in my area. Cheers Poch [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Ken Basterfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fiat UNO Diesel on Biodiesel? I presume it is the 1.9 litre diesel that you are talking about. Avoid it like the plague, they drop inlet valves and break camshafts for a pastime.Fiat have recently taken to using the Peugeot 1.9 and that is much much better. 1992 is a FIAT! Ken --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Re: [biofuel] graphic from alt fuel, antiwar rally saturday
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, girl mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There were a lot of good signs at the protest. At one point I was stuck behind a guy with a BIG pickup truck with a large lumber rack on it- it had a sign hanging from back of the rack- wide enough to take up most of the lane (this was during the alternative fuel vehicle parade that was organized as part of the anti war protest). it said, REAL MEN DON'T GET GAS . In really big letters. the rest of the truck had equally big signs about biodiesel. there were also 'real patriots fuel with biodiesel' (and real patriots drive hybrids, your car sucks gas, my car sips gas, and lots more). We also draped my truck with banners including a variation of the anti war slogan 'no blood for oil' which became 'ain't NO BLOOD FOR vegetable OIL' and biodiesel: 'think globally, brew locally'. I still think my favorite one was that graphic in the link I posted. Mark At 09:59 AM 1/20/2003 +0100, you wrote: Mark, Great picture, US need more of this kind. Hakan At 10:27 PM 1/19/2003 -0800, you wrote: Hey folks, Check out this graphic on a sign someone had at the alternative fuel vehicle portion of the anti-war rally in san francisco yesterday... http://www.veggieavenger.com/news/imagewindow.php?image=127-2701_IMGhtt p://www.veggieavenger.com/news/imagewindow.php?image=127-2701_IMG [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Re: [biofuel] graphic from alt fuel, antiwar rally saturday
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark, Could you please try to get an original .jpg of the one you posted for publishing on web sites. That on could also be combined with a text on the right of it, for bumper stickers etc. Very good, should be used and published. Sorry that I said US in my previous mail, it is valid for the whole world Hakan At 09:46 AM 1/20/2003 -0800, you wrote: There were a lot of good signs at the protest. At one point I was stuck behind a guy with a BIG pickup truck with a large lumber rack on it- it had a sign hanging from back of the rack- wide enough to take up most of the lane (this was during the alternative fuel vehicle parade that was organized as part of the anti war protest). it said, REAL MEN DON'T GET GAS . In really big letters. the rest of the truck had equally big signs about biodiesel. there were also 'real patriots fuel with biodiesel' (and real patriots drive hybrids, your car sucks gas, my car sips gas, and lots more). We also draped my truck with banners including a variation of the anti war slogan 'no blood for oil' which became 'ain't NO BLOOD FOR vegetable OIL' and biodiesel: 'think globally, brew locally'. I still think my favorite one was that graphic in the link I posted. Mark At 09:59 AM 1/20/2003 +0100, you wrote: Mark, Great picture, US need more of this kind. Hakan At 10:27 PM 1/19/2003 -0800, you wrote: Hey folks, Check out this graphic on a sign someone had at the alternative fuel vehicle portion of the anti-war rally in san francisco yesterday... http://www.veggieavenger.com/news/imagewindow.php?image=127-2701_IMGhtt p://www.veggieavenger.com/news/imagewindow.php?image=127-2701_IMG --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Re: [biofuel] graphic from alt fuel, antiwar rally saturday
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, girl mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone wanting that can just ask the Veggie Avenger- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - but it's also an easy graphic for someone to just make themselves... Mark At 07:27 PM 1/20/2003 +0100, you wrote: Mark, Could you please try to get an original .jpg of the one you posted for publishing on web sites. That on could also be combined with a text on the right of it, for bumper stickers etc. Very good, should be used and published. Sorry that I said US in my previous mail, it is valid for the whole world Hakan A [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Re: Ford Mondeo TD
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, hugh_frater [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1996... more likely than not, It'll be a pre-common rail engine, in which case it'll either run a bosch or lucas/roto-diesel pump. These have been used on loads of small diesels over the years without any problems. They all work on pretty much the same principle, as do the injectors although I can't remember if the ford engine is direct injection or indirect injection... I imagine the former as they have a lot of experience with that from the transit and escort. To be quite honest, it should behave no differently from any other small diesel. You might have to sort out the rubber hoses, I don't know as I haven't had any bioDiesel experinece, just years of experience with diesel engine. Ask the guys on the list... Hugh, Dorset UK --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Methanol source
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Ken Basterfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Try Ellis Everard. I only know their Exeter branch, 01392 444108. I know they can supply but haven't bought any from them. Methonex in the north east are the manufacturers but they won't deal with individuals. Let me know how you get on and how much it costs. sincerely Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 11:24 AM Subject: [biofuel] Methanol source Does anyone know of a source for methanol in Dorset UK? I live over near swanage, but am regularly commuting to Poole/Bournemouth and would like to find a source in this area... Hugh Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Good news for air breathers
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was just surfing around Michael Moore's excellent website - www.michaelmoore.com and found an article from The Economist about a new bill by Joseph Lieberman and John McCain that will, if passed, mandate a reduction in greenhouse gases. Here's the link: http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1538758 . It also mentions that New York's (Republican) Governor Pataki plans to start regulating GHG's (greenhouse gases) -following California's lead. Craig --- End forwarded message ---
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fwd: Waste Oil Furnace
Heidi, I'd love to see/hear details of your friend's WVO heaters, and details on his use of WVO in a generator. Thanks! Craig heidinem wrote: I have just been a lurker here until now. I have a vegetable oil fueled car which a friend converted for me and don't really understand much about. It seems simple enough though. He has several heaters he has built which use fryer oil as fuel as well as a generator, tractor, and truck which he runs on what he calls wvo. He built these heaters himself and I am not sure how they work but if people are interested I could ask him more about this. Heidi Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Elsbett (long)
Keith, Please do. I feel sorta badly about promoting the Elsbett when Ed and Charlie are making such good kits, but the Elsbett is of a higher order - truly something that allows Granny to drive your car (or her car) on SVO - just tell her she can fuel up with dinodiesel if she runs out of SVO on the road. Glad to hear you're all moved - it was strange having you gone. BTW and totally OT - did you ever run into a man named Doug Lummis in Kyoto? Old landlord of mine in Berkeley, now writes about world trade issues for (among others) an English-language paper in Kyoto. When I was a freshman at Cal Berkeley in 1963, he was a grad student at Cal, married to Kyoko ( I think her name was) who he'd met when he was in Japan after having been in the Korean War. I still remember him telling me - in 1963! - that the increasing McDonaldization of the entire world disturbed him a lot. Last time I saw him was in 1964, then a year or so ago there was an obit in the SF Chronicle for a man named Lummis - and listed among his surviving relatives was Douglas Lummis of Kyoto - so I Googled him, and found, among other books and articles he'd written, an article opposing GAT and NAFTA - perfect for a man that saw it coming a long time ago, I thought. Good luck getting settled in. Craig Keith Addison wrote: I hope you don't mind if I cross-post this Craig - it seems to be travelling quite well! (The message as well as the Merc.) Best Keith To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:33:02 -0800 Subject: Elsbett (long) (was Re: [vegoil-diesel] Suitable Injectors, glowplugs fitted to Mercedes Here's a little writeup I did about the Elsbett kit I installed on an '84 Mercedes 300 TD wagon. Darren and/or Stephan may need to check it for accuracy: Craig Elsbett, DIY single-tank system thoughts I installed an Elsbett single-tank system on an Î84 Mercedes 300TD wagon last month, and itâs running just fine in Northern California - where the coldest temps weâve seen so far are probably in the low 30âs, if that. Elsbett recommends that you mix in a little dinodiesel when temps get real cold - and what this temp is depends on what the vehicle is - Mercedes are famous among WVOâers for the ability of their inline liftpump to pull thick oil from the tank. (Curiously, Elsbett recommends against blending in biodiesel - calling it ãcorrosiveä - and they may be justifiably concerned about skanky unwashed and badly made homebrew causing problems with their equipment - but I think it could have more to do with the fact that in Germany theyâre competing with biodiesel.) They also stipulate that the kit is to be used with new SVO only - and recommend Canola. The car I converted is running on WVO - but itâs been titrated by girl Mark, and she also boiled a small sample to listen for the sputtering that letâs you know if thereâs water in the oil - and it passed both tests. I then pre-filtered it to .5 micron with Greaselâs filterbags (www.greasel.com.) I understand that Elsbett doesn't want to be waranteeing a kit that might get damaged by funky crud-laden and/or Drano-laced fuel, but I think that good WVO should be ok. The kit was $870 including shipping from Germany, then you need to add the charge from a local Bosch shop to swap out the stock injector nozzle bodies and nozzle valves for new ones that Elsbett provides. I paid $25/per for this - or $125 for the 5 injectors. So total not including labor was $995 - not cheap. Elsbett also tells you to have the Bosch shop turn up the opening pressure on the injectors by 5-10 bar - I told them to try for 7.5 bar. I assume that the higher pressure is designed to better optimize the thicker fuel. The kit is great, the directions suck. They give you 4-5 big laminated pages, some with photos of the components of the kit installed in the engine compartment, and one of which is an electrical schematic. All of it almost totally useless, except as a starting point. I spent more time figuring out the directions than I did installing the kit - calling and emailing Elsbett, talking to Capra JâNeva whoâs installed an Elsbett on a Toyota diesel pickup, and consulting with a professional mechanic who deconstructed the schematic for me. Hereâs what the kit comes with: A heated fuel filter, with a relay. Unlike Racorâs heated fuel filters, with a heating element inside the (Lexan) filter bowl, this one is heated by a wide band that encircles the aluminum fuel filter body - and the band presumably has Nichrome wire inside - with an plug-in type electrical connector. When it's electrified - which it isn't always - more on that later - it's too hot to touch for more than a second or so. A coolant-fuel heat exchanger. Itâs not the usual fin-and-tube type, but a (more efficient, Iâm told) flat-plate style. Itâs a cube about 4ä square, and whatever they were
Oops! (was Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Elsbett (long)
Oops! I thought Keith had written to me off-list, and meant to reply off-list. Sorry about the extremely OT chatter about Doug Lummis, etc! Craig Keith Addison wrote: I hope you don't mind if I cross-post this Craig - it seems to be travelling quite well! (The message as well as the Merc.) Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Fwd: Newbie....
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, abattler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would anybody like to give a newbie a quick intro to the biofuel group. What are biofuels and what are the different kinds? What makes a good biofuel good? Thanks --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: biofuel jetta
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Brian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone aware of any problems with putting biodiesel in the newer jetta TDI's? Thanks. Brian __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: NaOH Supply
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Robin Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a typical non-commercial source of sodium hydroxide? I was reading on the journey to forever page that it is something you can get at a hardware store - what would it be called?? Could I just walk in and ask for a bottle/tub of NaOH or is there a layman's term for the stuff? Thanks Robin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Re: graphic from alt fuel, antiwar rally saturday
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, William [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: heheh, I was wondering where all the traffic for just that one image was coming from. The whole stack is at: http://www.veggieavenger.com/news/rally.shtml -- ww --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, girl mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone wanting that can just ask the Veggie Avenger- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - but it's also an easy graphic for someone to just make themselves... Mark At 07:27 PM 1/20/2003 +0100, you wrote: Mark, Could you please try to get an original .jpg of the one you posted for publishing on web sites. That on could also be combined with a text on the right of it, for bumper stickers etc. Very good, should be used and published. Sorry that I said US in my previous mail, it is valid for the whole world Hakan A [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: biodiesel
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, dshirode [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey there, I'm a student of Third Year petrochemical Engg. studying at MIT, Pune, Maharashtra, India. I am interested in biofuels and I have been working on it since a year. I have some national level presentataions on the same topic to my credit. Now I'm willing to take a project on biodiesel at my final year of Engg., as Govt. of india has recently decided to foray into the field of biodiesel. (This field is quite new in India). For this I'm planning to manufacture Biodiesel from non edible oils available in India and test it for emissions. Also design a plant to operate for mass production of biodiesel. For this I'll require ur help. We'll meet soon in other mails. Any one from the same region or in the same conditions please contact. Dhanwantari Shirode Get Your Private, Free E-mail from Indiatimes at http://email.indiatimes.com Buy the best in Movies at http://www.videos.indiatimes.com Now bid just 7 Days in Advance and get Huge Discounts on Indian Airlines Flights. So log on to http://indianairlines.indiatimes.com and Bid Now ! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Where do I put all this glycerin??
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, dave01632002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am very interested in making biodiesel from used vegetable oil and methanol, but my biggest concern is disposal of the glycerin. I understand I should obtain approximately 15 gallons of glycering to every 85 gallons of biodiesel. Is this correct? And what do I do with all this glycerin? Please help. Dave --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: trying to register a fuel alcohol still in Canada
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, RobLunan [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Sorry to pester you. I'm at my whit's end. I can find lots of info on registering a fuel alcohol still in the USA but nothing in Canada. Do you know who to contact in Canada or do you have a link? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please e-mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cheers, Rob Lunan --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Bioethanol 5,7%
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometimes I ask something!!!???!!! I remember that USA, in 2005, want to export the Bioethanol at 5,7%, is it true? or They will produce before? I view a very few messages in this period, why? Best regards at the all people!!! Ezio --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: RE: [biofuel] biofuel jetta
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Ellringer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lots of people power their TDI's with varying amounts of biodiesel, including B100 (100%). I highly recommend you join fellow TDI owners in discussing biodiesel and biofuels at the web forums on www.tdiclub.com . Click on FORUMS at the top, then TDI discussion, then Fuels and Lubricants. You can search there for old threads on the topic, or post a new question. There has been extensive discussion of biodiesel there. A potential problem for some folks is the nullification of VW warranties by using biodiesel in the US. This is possibly avoidable, don't ask, don't tell. Some have a hard time not advertising their use of biofuels, putting up red flags at the dealer... Another issue for biodiesel in general is cold temperature gelling. this can be overcome by several different add-ons to your vehicle. Among them, the Veg-therm and TDIheater. Others use additives or blends with dinodiesel. Anyone aware of any problems with putting biodiesel in the newer jetta TDI's? Thanks. Good luck Brian, Aaron, who is patiently waiting for my subaru to kick it so I can get a diesel... running 10% ethanol until then in cold, snowless wisconsin --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: North America's first Pedestrian Charter
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Toronto has recently become the first city in North America to adopt a Pedestrian Charter. Spearheaded by Toronto Food Policy Council member Janice Etter and her citizen colleague Rhona Swarbrick, the Charter includes one clause identifying a crucial issue for people advocating on behalf of all neighbourhoods' rights to access quality food retail outlets: namely, the right to access basic amenities by foot. Change is afoot. To read the Pedestrian Charter, go to http://www.toronto.ca/pedestrian/. For background and advice on how to develop a Pedestrian Charter for your area, contact Janice at [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Where do I put all this glycerin??
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Brian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave, I haven't used it myself yet, but the glcerin can be used as a soap. You can read more about it at the biodeisel websites. It depends on how you want to use it, whether just to clean up your shop, or if you want to make bars of soap..i think you have to work on the purity of the glycerin depending on the use. Brian --- dave01632002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am very interested in making biodiesel from used vegetable oil and methanol, but my biggest concern is disposal of the glycerin. I understand I should obtain approximately 15 gallons of glycering to every 85 gallons of biodiesel. Is this correct? And what do I do with all this glycerin? Please help. Dave __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Re: [biofuel] NaOH Supply
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lye. You can find it at the hardware store or grocery store, on the same isle as drain cleaners, in a can just a bit larger than a soda can. It might be marked with the brand name Red Devil. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Robin Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 21:39 Subject: [biofuel] NaOH Supply Is there a typical non-commercial source of sodium hydroxide? I was reading on the journey to forever page that it is something you can get at a hardware store - what would it be called?? Could I just walk in and ask for a bottle/tub of NaOH or is there a layman's term for the stuff? Thanks Robin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Newbie....
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Were do I start? BioFuels are, in simplest terms, fuels that are derived from renewable biological sources. Wood that is burned in the fireplace, charcoal in a furnace, and vegetable oil, that with or with out simple chemical modification, can be used in place of diesel fuel or heating oil ( the diesel engine was orignaly made to run on vegtable oil ), are all examples of BioFuels, another couple of examples are the alcohols Methanol and Ethanol derived from plant material. Some people might argue that oil, coal and other petrochemical stocks are derived from ancient biological sources, and so they might be included, but, true BioFuels come from renewable sources, that do not add to the burden on the atmoshpere. Some people ask, How can BioFuels be better for the atmosphere, if you still burn them? . It is simple, the carbon dioxide ( CO2 ), that is made when biofuels are burnt, recycle, back in the the plant material which they came from. Keep in mind, that just about anything made from petrochemical stocks, can be made from biological sources as well. A couple of other things to keep in mind is: 1) On this list, while everyone here has a interest in BioFuels, not everyone agrees on politics, and politics has a big impact on fuels of any kind. This list, at times, gets heated on how things should be done, but it always cools down. 2) There is a lot of disinformation about BioFuels out and about. Some of it is through ignorance, some of it is on purpose. If you have any questions at all, ask, and someone will help you. Greg H. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 10:50 Subject: [biofuel] Newbie Would anybody like to give a newbie a quick intro to the biofuel group. What are biofuels and what are the different kinds? What makes a good biofuel good? Thanks Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Re: graphic from alt fuel, antiwar rally saturday
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, studio53 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks William for posting this... I only thought there was one image... makes me want to go back to S.F. (Was there in Haight-Asbury in 68') --- Jesse Parris | studio53 | 53 maitland rd | stamford, ct 06906 203.324.4371www.jesseparris.com/ - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:40 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: graphic from alt fuel, antiwar rally saturday heheh, I was wondering where all the traffic for just that one image was coming from. The whole stack is at: http://www.veggieavenger.com/news/rally.shtml snipe --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Hello again
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all Sorry, that took a bit longer than expected (what a surprise - doesn't everything?). So we moved house, as well as project, to a small village in Ichijima Prefecture. The move went fine, but... Another story, or several, for later, not uninteresting, and pertinent to some previous threads. Second but - computer problems, or rather keyboard problems, so I was unable to connect until Saturday, and all I could accomplish then was to clear some backlogged messages. Including one from a guy who'd decided his previous message, still backlogged from the day before, had been censored because this list did not consider it as politically correct. Sheesh! I did say things might be a bit slow until I managed to get online again, but I thought that might happen. Thanks for your understanding, pal. :-( Anyway, keyboard's working fine now - got all clogged up with city dust in Osaka. We had a nice clean modern flat there, but still it was dusty. Where does all this dust come from?? I wanted to take it apart and clean it, as I've often done before, but, um, you can't do that with a G4 keyboard, it doesn't come apart. They designed it for some other planet I guess. I asked a Mac list, one guy told me to put it in the dishwasher. I thought he was kidding, but several others said the same - soap and warm water, rinse thoroughly, dry thoroughly. And it worked, amazing - good as new. Meanwhile we've found a couple of diesel vans, and we'll buy one of them by the weekend. Then we're in business - lots of potential round here. Too much to do right now, and I haven't read all the incoming messages over the last few days yet. I'll catch up soon, meanwhile no more delays on moderator tasks and so on. And no, no censorship either thankyou, and sod anything called PC. Best Keith --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Where do I put all this glycerin??
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Probably about 6.715 gallons of true glycerin for every 85 gallons of feedstock. The rest will be recoverable alcohol and soap. Unfortunately you can't separate the glycerin from the soap without evaporating the glycerin at over 500*F. Journey to Forever has a section on how to chemically recover the glycerin, a process that also breaks the soap down to the original free fatty acids and changes the residual catalyst to a reusable fertilizer. That same recovery process will require considerably less chemical inputs and yield a slightly higher grade glycerin if you are originally using the acid/base process. Using the straight base process makes considerably more soap byproducts than the acid/base process. Depending upon your feedstock, whether it was clean oil or waste fats and oils, the glycerin may be scent free enough as to use in other soap making or sell to soap makers, although they don't use a great deal of it. You may also be able to store it until you have enough volume for a glycerin refiner to take it. Or you could dillute it with water and dispense it over fields along with the recovered fertilizer. The recovered free fatty acids can be used as a boiler, oil lamp or some other fuel. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:11 PM Subject: [biofuel] Where do I put all this glycerin?? Hello, I am very interested in making biodiesel from used vegetable oil and methanol, but my biggest concern is disposal of the glycerin. I understand I should obtain approximately 15 gallons of glycering to every 85 gallons of biodiesel. Is this correct? And what do I do with all this glycerin? Please help. Dave Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- End forwarded message ---
Re: [biofuel] Where do I put all this glycerin??
has anyone done any experimentation on reprocessing the FFA's via the acid/base to see if it's convertable? Although, I do like the idea of burning it in a boiler/heater, it seems like it would be worthy to capture it and make some more BD. James Slayden On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Appal Energy wrote: Probably about 6.715 gallons of true glycerin for every 85 gallons of feedstock. The rest will be recoverable alcohol and soap. Unfortunately you can't separate the glycerin from the soap without evaporating the glycerin at over 500*F. Journey to Forever has a section on how to chemically recover the glycerin, a process that also breaks the soap down to the original free fatty acids and changes the residual catalyst to a reusable fertilizer. That same recovery process will require considerably less chemical inputs and yield a slightly higher grade glycerin if you are originally using the acid/base process. Using the straight base process makes considerably more soap byproducts than the acid/base process. Depending upon your feedstock, whether it was clean oil or waste fats and oils, the glycerin may be scent free enough as to use in other soap making or sell to soap makers, although they don't use a great deal of it. You may also be able to store it until you have enough volume for a glycerin refiner to take it. Or you could dillute it with water and dispense it over fields along with the recovered fertilizer. The recovered free fatty acids can be used as a boiler, oil lamp or some other fuel. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:11 PM Subject: [biofuel] Where do I put all this glycerin?? Hello, I am very interested in making biodiesel from used vegetable oil and methanol, but my biggest concern is disposal of the glycerin. I understand I should obtain approximately 15 gallons of glycering to every 85 gallons of biodiesel. Is this correct? And what do I do with all this glycerin? Please help. Dave Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT HGTV Dream Home Giveaway Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: Elsbett (long)
I hope you don't mind if I cross-post this Craig - it seems to be travelling quite well! (The message as well as the Merc.) Best Keith To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:33:02 -0800 Subject: Elsbett (long) (was Re: [vegoil-diesel] Suitable Injectors, glowplugs fitted to Mercedes Here's a little writeup I did about the Elsbett kit I installed on an '84 Mercedes 300 TD wagon. Darren and/or Stephan may need to check it for accuracy: Craig Elsbett, DIY single-tank system thoughts I installed an Elsbett single-tank system on an Î84 Mercedes 300TD wagon last month, and itâs running just fine in Northern California - where the coldest temps weâve seen so far are probably in the low 30âs, if that. Elsbett recommends that you mix in a little dinodiesel when temps get real cold - and what this temp is depends on what the vehicle is - Mercedes are famous among WVOâers for the ability of their inline liftpump to pull thick oil from the tank. (Curiously, Elsbett recommends against blending in biodiesel - calling it ãcorrosiveä - and they may be justifiably concerned about skanky unwashed and badly made homebrew causing problems with their equipment - but I think it could have more to do with the fact that in Germany theyâre competing with biodiesel.) They also stipulate that the kit is to be used with new SVO only - and recommend Canola. The car I converted is running on WVO - but itâs been titrated by girl Mark, and she also boiled a small sample to listen for the sputtering that letâs you know if thereâs water in the oil - and it passed both tests. I then pre-filtered it to .5 micron with Greaselâs filterbags (www.greasel.com.) I understand that Elsbett doesn't want to be waranteeing a kit that might get damaged by funky crud-laden and/or Drano-laced fuel, but I think that good WVO should be ok. The kit was $870 including shipping from Germany, then you need to add the charge from a local Bosch shop to swap out the stock injector nozzle bodies and nozzle valves for new ones that Elsbett provides. I paid $25/per for this - or $125 for the 5 injectors. So total not including labor was $995 - not cheap. Elsbett also tells you to have the Bosch shop turn up the opening pressure on the injectors by 5-10 bar - I told them to try for 7.5 bar. I assume that the higher pressure is designed to better optimize the thicker fuel. The kit is great, the directions suck. They give you 4-5 big laminated pages, some with photos of the components of the kit installed in the engine compartment, and one of which is an electrical schematic. All of it almost totally useless, except as a starting point. I spent more time figuring out the directions than I did installing the kit - calling and emailing Elsbett, talking to Capra JâNeva whoâs installed an Elsbett on a Toyota diesel pickup, and consulting with a professional mechanic who deconstructed the schematic for me. Hereâs what the kit comes with: A heated fuel filter, with a relay. Unlike Racorâs heated fuel filters, with a heating element inside the (Lexan) filter bowl, this one is heated by a wide band that encircles the aluminum fuel filter body - and the band presumably has Nichrome wire inside - with an plug-in type electrical connector. When it's electrified - which it isn't always - more on that later - it's too hot to touch for more than a second or so. A coolant-fuel heat exchanger. Itâs not the usual fin-and-tube type, but a (more efficient, Iâm told) flat-plate style. Itâs a cube about 4ä square, and whatever they were thinking as far as mounting wasnât obvious to me, so I fabricated a mounting bracket out of aluminum angle. The special injector nozzle bodies and nozzle valves - somehow optimized for WVO - different spray pattern maybe, self-cleaning nozzle valves maybe? - all I can tell you about them is that the nozzle valves were smaller in diameter than the stock one - and the (Bosch?) logo and model number had been wire-brushed off the side of the nozzle body to make it difficult for anyone to reverse-engineer the Elsbett kit. New glowplugs - made by Magneti Marelli. For the 5 and 6 cyl. Benz, they are #UX9A (I got a kit, not yet installed, for my 6 cyl. Benz, and it came with the same glowplugs.) They donât look markedly different from the stock glowplugs, but Iâve heard that they get hotter and will tolerate being left on longer - more on this next - than stock plugs. A 7 pin relay with the mfg. and P/N and schematic on the side of the relay ground off - once again to prevent reverse-engineering, Iâm sure. It gets wired into the stock glowplug relay, and leaves them on longer, and also gets connected to the heated fuel filter. Inside, there the usual copper-wound coil and some points, and a Motorola chip with the P/N JWT-GZVWTK 5C40H XCTAA0020. A buddy whoâs an electrical engineer thinks that this may be a timer - that tells the glowplugs and the heated fuel filter to turn off after a preset amount of
Re: [biofuel] Where do I put all this glycerin??
I was going to ask a question, but as usual the JTF page answered it for me. ;-) But here it is anyway I was going to ask about the left over meth in the glyc seperation, but I found that on the page: The methanol can then be recovered from the glycerine in the middle layer by heating to above 65 deg C (150 deg F) in a closed container fitted with an outlet into a simple condenser. Seems simple enough. I was wondering what the concensus is on recovering the meth before seperation of after? Who is doing what do to ease, and recovery. BTW, Tilly posted some numbers on meth recovery on the [Biodiesel] list that seemed kinda high. Any comments on that? James Slayden On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Brian Kelly wrote: Dave, I haven't used it myself yet, but the glcerin can be used as a soap. You can read more about it at the biodeisel websites. It depends on how you want to use it, whether just to clean up your shop, or if you want to make bars of soap..i think you have to work on the purity of the glycerin depending on the use. Brian --- dave01632002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am very interested in making biodiesel from used vegetable oil and methanol, but my biggest concern is disposal of the glycerin. I understand I should obtain approximately 15 gallons of glycering to every 85 gallons of biodiesel. Is this correct? And what do I do with all this glycerin? Please help. Dave __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT HGTV Dream Home Giveaway Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] NaOH Supply
If you;re in the US, that would be 'lye' - drain cleaner- the Red Devil brand specifically. It has to be pure 100% lye- (and Red Devil says so on the label in TINY little letters if you squint hard enough). The other odd varieties of drain cleaner (crystal,foaming,newformula,liquid whatever) have other ingredients and wo'n't do the job (and are probably not safe combinations of chemicals to try playing with). Red Devil is still economical enough to make cheap fuel, even though it's 4 or more tiimes as expensive as buying bulk lye- but you won't have to deal with storage if you just buy it a couple cans at a time. Keep it closed- it absorbs moisture from the atmosphere and it can react with carbon dioxide, so measure it quickly... otherwise when you're ready to make large amounts of biodiesel you can get 25 lb or 50 lb bags of 100% (or 99% probably) lye from industrial chemical supply houses. When I buy a big bag like that I divide it quickly into sandwich bags and keep them in a sealed bucket. Try KOH sometime, too- much easier to work with (ie dissolves faster, doesn't absorb moisture as fast and comes in bigger chunks that probably are the cause of that), though it's more expensive and you'd use more... Try and get it in 90% or better purity... good luck, Mark At 08:39 PM 1/20/2003 -0800, you wrote: Is there a typical non-commercial source of sodium hydroxide? I was reading on the journey to forever page that it is something you can get at a hardware store - what would it be called?? Could I just walk in and ask for a bottle/tub of NaOH or is there a layman's term for the stuff? Thanks Robin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=241773.2861420.4212388.1925585/D=egroupweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=1394045/R=0/*http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/pac_ctnt/text/0,,HGTV_3936_5802,FF.html5383f08.jpg 5383fee.jpg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Where do I put all this glycerin??
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, dave01632002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am very interested in making biodiesel from used vegetable oil and methanol, but my biggest concern is disposal of the glycerin. I understand I should obtain approximately 15 gallons of glycering to every 85 gallons of biodiesel. Is this correct? And what do I do with all this glycerin? Please help. Dave See: Glycerine http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html General Separating glycerine Purifying glycerine Paintbrush cleaner Soap Glop soap High-explosives Heart disease drug Love potion Safe sweetener Health supplement Preserving plants Photocopying Other uses Disposal Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fwd: Newbie....
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, abattler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would anybody like to give a newbie a quick intro to the biofuel group. What are biofuels and what are the different kinds? What makes a good biofuel good? Thanks Two good sources are included at the bottom of every message: Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ And here's another one: http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm Biofuel at WebConX Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Where do I put all this glycerin??
James, There is a point, to which I am as yet certain, where higher than atmospheric pressure must be implemented in order to get high ffa feedstock to entirely convert in an esterification. This would probably mean at least 4 atmospheres or greater. But that doesn't amount to much as far as psi goes - 50+ pounds. Todd - Original Message - From: James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Where do I put all this glycerin?? has anyone done any experimentation on reprocessing the FFA's via the acid/base to see if it's convertable? Although, I do like the idea of burning it in a boiler/heater, it seems like it would be worthy to capture it and make some more BD. James Slayden On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Appal Energy wrote: Probably about 6.715 gallons of true glycerin for every 85 gallons of feedstock. The rest will be recoverable alcohol and soap. Unfortunately you can't separate the glycerin from the soap without evaporating the glycerin at over 500*F. Journey to Forever has a section on how to chemically recover the glycerin, a process that also breaks the soap down to the original free fatty acids and changes the residual catalyst to a reusable fertilizer. That same recovery process will require considerably less chemical inputs and yield a slightly higher grade glycerin if you are originally using the acid/base process. Using the straight base process makes considerably more soap byproducts than the acid/base process. Depending upon your feedstock, whether it was clean oil or waste fats and oils, the glycerin may be scent free enough as to use in other soap making or sell to soap makers, although they don't use a great deal of it. You may also be able to store it until you have enough volume for a glycerin refiner to take it. Or you could dillute it with water and dispense it over fields along with the recovered fertilizer. The recovered free fatty acids can be used as a boiler, oil lamp or some other fuel. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:11 PM Subject: [biofuel] Where do I put all this glycerin?? Hello, I am very interested in making biodiesel from used vegetable oil and methanol, but my biggest concern is disposal of the glycerin. I understand I should obtain approximately 15 gallons of glycering to every 85 gallons of biodiesel. Is this correct? And what do I do with all this glycerin? Please help. Dave Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT HGTV Dream Home Giveaway Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: graphic from alt fuel, antiwar rally saturday
Unfortunately we were all driving for the parade portion of the thing, so nobody I know got good photos of the parade. Causing traffic for Peace! If anyone out there in internet land got good pictures of the vehicles, please let me (or Veggieavenger site) know. By the way the rest of the antiwar rally was WAAAYYY bigger than reported in the media (as usual). We talked on the phone to people in the midwest that night- and it sounded like news of the worldwide and especially nationwide protests was making a dent in the attitudes of folk who were otherwise pretty insulated from the issues (we were talking to my rooommate's conservative teenage relatives from a small town). I was impressed. Check out the Indymedia.org websites for participants' articles on the protest. The Democracy Now radio program had a good program on the various protests. I think there's a website for that show and (democracynow.org) they probably still have info up there and I imagine will keep talking about it this week... By the way that's my truck and a Weldless processor in which I made fuel at the rally after the vehicle convoy: http://www.veggieavenger.com/news/imagewindow.php?image=biosmell-Jennifer-Radtke Some small children helped make that banner (I think), which kind of explains the look of it. the rest of the banners on my truck were slightly less hippie. I swear my truck is tougher than that. Mark At 10:59 AM 1/21/2003 -0500, you wrote: Thanks William for posting this... I only thought there was one image... makes me want to go back to S.F. (Was there in Haight-Asbury in 68') --- Jesse Parris | studio53 | 53 maitland rd | stamford, ct 06906 203.324.4371www.jesseparris.com/ - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:40 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: graphic from alt fuel, antiwar rally saturday heheh, I was wondering where all the traffic for just that one image was coming from. The whole stack is at: http://www.veggieavenger.com/news/rally.shtmlhttp://www.veggieavenger.com/news/rally.shtml snipe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] OT: desalinization in California
Looks like they're bothering to look into this a bit more now that apparently existing Colorado River rights are being enforced. I had always wondered about what they did with the salt, and apparently there is indeed a concern of what it does to the ocean and ocean life when the salt is put back in. Here in San Diego a few years ago there was a vote on what I guess is called toilet-to-tap by those putting it down. Although it was rejected, the larger issue for me is that we try harder to look at all manner of more sustainable technologies, however imperfect, criticizeable, etc. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/sun/news/news_0n19desaline.html California taps ocean to shore up water supplies New technology better at removing salt from water By Laura Wides ASSOCIATED PRESS January 19, 2003 LOS ANGELES ö California's classic quest for water, made more pressing by a persistent Western drought and a severe cutback in Colorado River supplies, is turning to what many have regarded as an obvious source: the ocean that forms the state's western border. New technology has made it cheaper to squeeze freshwater from the ocean while other states' demand for more Colorado River has made it a near necessity. There's only so much you can conserve, said Steven Erie, political science professor and water expert at the University of California San Diego. The future is recycling and desalination. The Metropolitan Water District of Southern California, which serves 18 million customers in six counties, is in the process of approving plans to subsidize five desalination plants, proposals that were submitted by local water agencies. Together, the plants could supply up to 7 percent of MWD's customers by 2007. MWD tentatively approved the proposals in December and expects construction to begin by 2005, pending environmental reviews. Even though it only represents a small portion of the water we use, it's an additional supply, MWD Board Chairman Phillip Pace said. It's something everyone has an interest in. Elsewhere in the nation, desalination is being considered as a way to supplement dwindling groundwater supplies. In Florida, a Tampa Bay plant is scheduled to open this month, with a second one in the works. Texas also is researching desalination sites, while landlocked New Mexico wants to produce drinking water by wringing salt from its brackish, underground aquifers. Critics said desalination remains too expensive, in large part because of the power required to run the plants. They say the process damages local coastal environments. For every two gallons of water filtered, one gallon of drinking water is produced. The highly concentrated salt water known as brine goes back to the sea. In heavy concentrations, that brine can kill small sea creatures, according to the California Coastal Commission. Scientists are still studying its effects on dolphins and other mammals. It's always easier to seek new sources than to conserve, said Jane Kelly, state director for the consumer group Public Citizen, which has long worked on California water and conservation issues. Supporters, however, say desalination is a crucial part of California's search for new water supplies. The state's population is expected to grow by 6 million by 2010, according to the California Department of Finance. Supporters also note a federal order requiring California to cut its use of the Colorado River to fulfill a decades-old agreement with six other Western states. The Interior Department ordered the cutback when the state missed a Dec. 31 deadline to forge an agreement saying how it would reduce its overreliance on river water. The deal fell apart when an Imperial Valley utility district rejected it. A last-minute attempt to salvage the agreement failed. Since then, the Metropolitan Water District has said it has access to ample water supplies for the next 20 years, even without the extra Colorado River water it has received for decades. It's expensive, the MWD's Pace said, referring to desalination. But if you have the difference between additional expense and no water, you go with expense. The basic process of desalination is not new. Salt water is pumped through filters under high pressure, squeezing out minerals. Israel and Kuwait have relied on desalination for decades, as have military vessels and cruise ships. More than a dozen small plants were built along California's coast during the early 1990s when the state faced its last drought, but most were for industry. Nearly all were shut down or dismantled because of high operating costs and because water agencies found cheaper water elsewhere. The Coastal Commission must give final approval for most desalination proposals along the state's 1,100-mile coastline and is finishing a study of existing and potential sites. According to its study, only the city of Marina, north of the Monterey Peninsula, still uses desalination to provide a portion of its domestic
[biofuel] Re: Fwd: NaOH Supply
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Robin Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a typical non-commercial source of sodium hydroxide? I was reading on the journey to forever page that it is something you can get at a hardware store - what would it be called?? Could I just walk in and ask for a bottle/tub of NaOH or is there a layman's term for the stuff? Thanks Robin Any hardware store will supply it to you if you ask for pure lye or pure caustic soda. In the US you can use Red Devil, but not Drano. Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Where do I put all this glycerin??
you can also compost the glycerine if you don't happen to have a hay field :) Composting: I mix it with wood chips or straw, make sure it is somewhat wet with water, and make sure I turn the compost pile frequently. Just regular composting technique. Mark Or you could dillute it with water and dispense it over fields along with the recovered fertilizer. The recovered free fatty acids can be used as a boiler, oil lamp or some other fuel. Todd Swearingen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Composting Glycerine?
On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 10:03 AM, girl mark wrote: you can also compost the glycerine if you don't happen to have a hay field :) Composting: I mix it with wood chips or straw, make sure it is somewhat wet with water, and make sure I turn the compost pile frequently. Just regular composting technique. Mark Doesn't the compost end up awfully alkaline? I've composted it also, but not until it's been neutralized with acid. Problem with THAT is it also releases FFAs, which makes quite a chunky mess you then have to deal with. If the alkalinity doesn't bother the worms and bacteria, I suppose you could neutralize it AFTER it becomes compost -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Berkeley area mechanics
Hi, I've been lurking for a week or two. I am a recent biodiesel/fuel enthusiast and am looking for help. I recently bought an ex PGE (soon to be Powered by Green Energy) 1985 GMC diesel pickup. After some transmission work it is up and running and I am ready to move on to the next phase. I have some mechanical experience but no diesel, and I am hoping that someone on the list can help me find a good local mechanic (Berkeley, Emeryville, Oakland) with biodiesel knowledge. I would eventually like to run SVO. Thanks, any tips would be appreciated! --Bruce Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Composting Glycerine?
a lot of people I know who do this are actually non-gardeners (I would poison myself if I ate what I could grow with the air pollution at my house!), so the composting is just a disposal method, or a way for keeping food scraps (and glycerine that you would add to such a pile) out of the landfill. I've seen a few of biodieselers who had a 'dedicated' glycerine compost pile- it doesn't take much space. Neutralizing seems like a good idea, I almost wrote something to that effect in that post. By the time you do the neutralizing the glycerine, though, it seems like such a useful product it's a shame to waste it. Mark At 10:17 AM 1/21/2003 -0800, you wrote: On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 10:03 AM, girl mark wrote: you can also compost the glycerine if you don't happen to have a hay field :) Composting: I mix it with wood chips or straw, make sure it is somewhat wet with water, and make sure I turn the compost pile frequently. Just regular composting technique. Mark Doesn't the compost end up awfully alkaline? I've composted it also, but not until it's been neutralized with acid. Problem with THAT is it also releases FFAs, which makes quite a chunky mess you then have to deal with. If the alkalinity doesn't bother the worms and bacteria, I suppose you could neutralize it AFTER it becomes compost -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=241773.2861420.4212388.1925585/D=egroupweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=1394046/R=0/*http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/pac_ctnt/text/0,,HGTV_3936_5802,FF.html55fe6d1.jpg 55fe7a3.jpg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Composting Glycerine?
Glycerine (glycerol) It used to be used in smoke machines. Maybe someone can figure out how to mix it with water, run it through a VEG-Therm, (which will do a nice job of making the fog-like smoke, I am quite sure) into a venturi, into the turbo, and mist fumigate the diesel with it, thus getting rid of the glyc by using it in the diesel, reducing NOx via fumigation, and getting more power all at the same time. Edward Beggs Neoteric Biofuels Inc. http://www.biofuels.ca Home of the G3 SVO kit and the VEG-Therm 12/24V inline SVO heater. On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 10:17 AM, Ken Provost wrote: On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 10:03 AM, girl mark wrote: you can also compost the glycerine if you don't happen to have a hay field :) Composting: I mix it with wood chips or straw, make sure it is somewhat wet with water, and make sure I turn the compost pile frequently. Just regular composting technique. Mark Doesn't the compost end up awfully alkaline? I've composted it also, but not until it's been neutralized with acid. Problem with THAT is it also releases FFAs, which makes quite a chunky mess you then have to deal with. If the alkalinity doesn't bother the worms and bacteria, I suppose you could neutralize it AFTER it becomes compost -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Composting Glycerine?
Mark - very interesting side issue - urban and peri urban agriculture. Should food be grown in cities with high levels of air pollution that precipitates onto the plantsor perhaps we should think also in terms of growing fuel instead (mustard, sunflowers, etc.) in these urban and periurban spaces, and grow th food where the air is already cleaner. Over time, the urban area itself could perhaps grown more renewable oil fuel, use the presscake as fertilizer, clean up sites with mustard (phytoremediation), use mustard presscake pellets as natural pesticide...and use the biofuels to also burn in the diesels of course, cleaning up the air. Sorry about the run on sentence! Ed On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 10:29 AM, girl mark wrote: a lot of people I know who do this are actually non-gardeners (I would poison myself if I ate what I could grow with the air pollution at my house!), so the composting is just a disposal method, or a way for keeping food scraps (and glycerine that you would add to such a pile) out of the landfill. I've seen a few of biodieselers who had a 'dedicated' glycerine compost pile- it doesn't take much space. Neutralizing seems like a good idea, I almost wrote something to that effect in that post. By the time you do the neutralizing the glycerine, though, it seems like such a useful product it's a shame to waste it. Mark At 10:17 AM 1/21/2003 -0800, you wrote: On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 10:03 AM, girl mark wrote: you can also compost the glycerine if you don't happen to have a hay field :) Composting: I mix it with wood chips or straw, make sure it is somewhat wet with water, and make sure I turn the compost pile frequently. Just regular composting technique. Mark Doesn't the compost end up awfully alkaline? I've composted it also, but not until it's been neutralized with acid. Problem with THAT is it also releases FFAs, which makes quite a chunky mess you then have to deal with. If the alkalinity doesn't bother the worms and bacteria, I suppose you could neutralize it AFTER it becomes compost -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=241773.2861420.4212388.1925585/D=egroupweb/ S=1705083269:HM/A=1394046/R=0/*http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/pac_ctnt/ text/0,,HGTV_3936_5802,FF.html55fe6d1.jpg 55fe7a3.jpg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp:// journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Where the FFA comes from Was: Composting Glycerine?
That sounds kinda strange. I'm a definite newbie at transesterification ... but I sorta understand saponification. And as I recall (in saponification), the FFA's combine with the sodium hydroxide ... forming the soap. The rest of the fat breaking away as glycerine. Therefore, in these two products, it's the SOAP that contains the FFA part of the 'VO ... the glycerin is only what's left after the FFA's been reacted away. I would imagine that in transesterification, a similar thing happens. In the two spent products, it would be the BIODIESEL that would contain the remnants of the FFA part of the 'VO ... with the glycerin containing only what's left. In fact, if I recall, glycerin is defined as an alcohol (??). So, being that glycerin is not the half of the reaction where the FFA went I can't figure out how adding anything, much less acid, could reconstitute any FFA. Making a chunky mess. Anyone?? Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] Doesn't the compost end up awfully alkaline? I've composted it also, but not until it's been neutralized with acid. Problem with THAT is it also releases FFAs, which makes quite a chunky mess you then have to deal with. If the alkalinity doesn't bother the worms and bacteria, I suppose you could neutralize it AFTER it becomes compost -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Where the FFA comes from Was: Composting Glycerine?
Here's the explanation: what we commonly call glycerine- the brown stuff that falls to the bottom after you've made biodiesel- is actually a mixture that contains soaps, leftover catalyst and methanol, and glycerine. If you take this byproduct and react it with an acid, you will break down the soaps that are in it into an ffa portion, and a salt portion, and it will all look like a three-layer 'biodiesel in reverse' kind of thing: a layer of dark colored ffa (and impurities?) on top, a larger layer of much more 'pure' , clearish glycerine in the middle, and a small layer of whiteish salts on the bottom. as for the biodiesel reaction in general- soaps mostly end up in the glycerine byproduct layer like I described, but a smaller amount of soap also stays suspended in biodiesel, and the same is said for the leftover catalyst and methanol- it mostly goes into the glycerine, but some remains in the biodiesel until something is done to the biodiesel to remove them (ie washing or prolonged settling or other stuff). Mark At 01:11 PM 1/21/2003 -0600, you wrote: That sounds kinda strange. I'm a definite newbie at transesterification ... but I sorta understand saponification. And as I recall (in saponification), the FFA's combine with the sodium hydroxide ... forming the soap. The rest of the fat breaking away as glycerine. Therefore, in these two products, it's the SOAP that contains the FFA part of the 'VO ... the glycerin is only what's left after the FFA's been reacted away. I would imagine that in transesterification, a similar thing happens. In the two spent products, it would be the BIODIESEL that would contain the remnants of the FFA part of the 'VO ... with the glycerin containing only what's left. In fact, if I recall, glycerin is defined as an alcohol (??). So, being that glycerin is not the half of the reaction where the FFA went I can't figure out how adding anything, much less acid, could reconstitute any FFA. Making a chunky mess. Anyone?? Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NLhttp://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] Doesn't the compost end up awfully alkaline? I've composted it also, but not until it's been neutralized with acid. Problem with THAT is it also releases FFAs, which makes quite a chunky mess you then have to deal with. If the alkalinity doesn't bother the worms and bacteria, I suppose you could neutralize it AFTER it becomes compost -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=241773.2861420.4212388.1925585/D=egroupweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=1394044/R=0/*http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/pac_ctnt/text/0,,HGTV_3936_5802,FF.html5b21d9a.jpg 5b21f53.jpg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] What a waste
Ok now im stumped, im just starting to make the biofuel for my iveco truck, will some one please tell me what im going to do with all the FAT . Ive just sivved the oil ive collect 60ltrs, and 10 ltrs was fat, im letting it settle again to see how much more of the oil i can get out of it, but what do i do with the gunge im left with, any ideas? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Methanol source
There is an ellis and Everard in Nuneaton, just north of Coventry, just off junction 3 of the M6, if that helps - Original Message - From: Ken Basterfield To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Methanol source Try Ellis Everard. I only know their Exeter branch, 01392 444108. I know they can supply but haven't bought any from them. Methonex in the north east are the manufacturers but they won't deal with individuals. Let me know how you get on and how much it costs. sincerely Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 11:24 AM Subject: [biofuel] Methanol source Does anyone know of a source for methanol in Dorset UK? I live over near swanage, but am regularly commuting to Poole/Bournemouth and would like to find a source in this area... Hugh Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Hillbillies Fight Back
On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:49:57 +0900, you wrote: This is OT, or maybe not entirely, if rural energy and issues are a topic for us here - only 99% OT. g But I thought I'd relay it because it's so repulsive. Maybe some folks here would care to make their opinions known to CBS. Keith Did you read anywhere of the PBS series where they took several real families and put them on a plot in the West or Midwest and had them live, as much as possible, a homesteader's life? This included lots of research into tools available, etc. Very interesting. Didn't see much of it but I think I did catch one thing which is that they were all having a somewhat tough time of it, but one of the families started to do some alcohol production and found an economic niche. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Where the FFA comes from Was: Composting Glycerine?
On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 11:11 AM, csakima wrote: That sounds kinda strange. I'm a definite newbie at transesterification ... but I sorta understand saponification. And as I recall (in saponification), the FFA's combine with the sodium hydroxide ... forming the soap. The rest of the fat breaking away as glycerine. Therefore, in these two products, it's the SOAP that contains the FFA part of the 'VO ... the glycerin is only what's left after the FFA's been reacted away. True, but the soap dissolves in the glycerine phase more readily than in the biodiesel phase, particularly if you add water before draining the glycerine (as I do). I would imagine that in transesterification, a similar thing happens. In the two spent products, it would be the BIODIESEL that would contain the remnants of the FFA part of the 'VO ... with the glycerin containing only what's left. If you had any FFA in there, it WOULD dissolve in the biodiesel, which would be a big problem and hard to rectify. Fortunately under alkaline conditions the FFA is all saponified and prefers the aqueous phase. I can't figure out how adding anything, much less acid, could reconstitute any FFA. Making a chunky mess. Anyone?? Adding acid to the soapy glycerine phase causes the saponification to be reversed, freeing the fatty acid. Until that reaction has gone all the way, you have a transitional state with FFAs, glycerine/water, and soap all together -- ripe for emulsion formation. Granted, all this is exacerbated by adding water to the glycerine remix, but the advantages outway the disadvantages -- the washing is much simpler afterward and there's never a dreaded mayonnaise phase. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE: shutdown flush (after a long pause)
From: girl mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 January 2003 18:41 Girl Mark said: slightly offtopic to what you're talking about above: Since we're talking about viscosity, I want to remind people that besides lowering viscosity and providing low-viscosity fuel for startup, another important function of two-tank systems is flushing any traces of vegetable oil out of your pump and injectors, not just so that the injector pump contains diesel that'll actually get it started while cold, but also so as to prevent vegetable oil from gumming up , oxidizing, or whatever it is it does, when hot oil cools down on parts (can somebody set me straight on which it is if it's not the same thing please?) ... As I said : I'm no chemist or combustion physicist and without more detail it's hard to assess exactly what is going on. I will however make a few comments. I'm not totally sure about the point your making here Mark. When I read this I mentally hung a ? over it, as I don't recall having seen any reports of this and I ment to dig through the info I have to find any references... I haven't had a chance but this has been playing on my mind, all I can add is, what about single tank systems, particualy the well tested Elsbett. What do you base your statement on? Maybe this is something I have missed but I think it is an important area to get straight. I have only occassionally shut down on SVO for long periods, although sometimes I probably don't flush entirely (It's a Mercedes engine so I feel I don't have to be very cautious.) I can't talk from personal experience but as far as I understand the numerous German single tankers who use both new oil and WVO (admittaly quite rare from what I understand) don't have such problems. The way I understand it, deposits are formed in the combustion chamber and/or cylinder (including and particually crucially on injector tips or in piston ring-lands) when the vegetable oil does not combust entirely due to incorrect injection, low heat in engine, low compression etc. Best wishes Darren Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Where the FFA comes from Was: Composting Glycerine?
I got some bad emulsification the one time I tried a remix. I was using an oil that I normally had fine results washing- no emulsion problems- so unless I messed up that batch and didn't realize it, I think I did something wrong with the remix (I didn't really measure the water I put in, just gave it 'some' but I don't think that should matter). How much do you agitate it when doing a remix? I just turned my processor back on for few seconds after adding the water. mark Adding acid to the soapy glycerine phase causes the saponification to be reversed, freeing the fatty acid. Until that reaction has gone all the way, you have a transitional state with FFAs, glycerine/water, and soap all together -- ripe for emulsion formation. Granted, all this is exacerbated by adding water to the glycerine remix, but the advantages outway the disadvantages -- the washing is much simpler afterward and there's never a dreaded mayonnaise phase. -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=241773.2861420.4212388.1925585/D=egroupweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=1394044/R=0/*http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/pac_ctnt/text/0,,HGTV_3936_5802,FF.html5ecd9e9.jpg 5ecdab1.jpg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] RE: shutdown flush (after a long pause)
Mark (and Darren,) I think that cold oil in the fuel injection pump isn't a problem because of gumming - it's only a problem if the cold oil's still cold when it reaches the combustion chamber, or the pre-combustion chamber. Elsbett gets around this cold oil problem in two ways - via the glowplugs that get hotter (we think) and (for sure) stay on longer than normal 'plugs, and by means of the heated fuel filter. And, as you point out, the special injector nozzle bodies and nozzle valves that Elsbett provides - plus the fact that they have you take your injectors to your local Bosch injector shop to turn up the opening pressure may both also help cold oil combust. Neoteric's VEG-Therm would also probably help - that is, if one were attempting to create a DIY one-tank system. If you plumbed a VEG-Therm into the system after the fuel injection pump and before the injectors, you'd be ensuring that you had hot fuel to (easily) combust. The absence of flushing of WVO or SVO via biodiesel or dinodiesel in a one-tank system does, I think, make it very important that you're completely combusting your fuel - as Darren points out. Otherwise, you might get the dreaded injector coking that we hear about. Easy to check for by removing an injector or two. As far as Gray's Powersmoke - I sent Gray to see Mac Jacobson, the best diesel mechanic I know, and Mac drove it, and thought it seemed fine, and he sent Gray away with a couple of cans of LubraMoly diesel purge to run through the engine. (And it's occurred to me that running LubraMoly on a regular basis through any engine running WVO/SVO - single-tank or two-tank - isn't a bad idea, just in case you might be getting a little injector coking. Either that, or pull the injectors regularly to check 'em.) Craig girl mark wrote: I don't remember where I got that info- I thought it was standard thinking on svo conversion but that some people didn't pay attention to it, hence Gray's problems that he thinks might be due to long-term effect of incomplete flushes. I got my svo education from a whole lot of sources over the last few years, since the beginning of the svo movement here- so it could be old or wrong info if you're not finding it in standard thinking over there now.- I've heard and read so much that I disremember the exact source of where I got that- through several years of going to people's workshops, talking to a lot of people, and being on the vegoil-diesel and other lists, and reading a lot of stuff, both that linked all over the web and put out in print by various kitmakers and other svo enthusiasts. I thought that elsbett gets around all of this via the injector changes- that the higher pressure and different injector nozzles are less sensitive to clogging via cold oil than injectors optimized for petrodiesel are. I was also wondering how elsbett gets around this issue in pumps- though remember that some pumps are built much beefier than others, and that Elsbett doesn't recommend singletank for every vehicle, only some vehicles and some pumps. I think that Gray has one of the engines that elsbett doesn't recommend singletank for, and his power loss/noise/wear problem is eluding the several things he's done to try and diagnose and fix it. somebody certainly correct me if I'm wrong on this gumming issue. mark At 08:49 PM 1/21/2003 +, you wrote: From: girl mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 January 2003 18:41 Girl Mark said: slightly offtopic to what you're talking about above: Since we're talking about viscosity, I want to remind people that besides lowering viscosity and providing low-viscosity fuel for startup, another important function of two-tank systems is flushing any traces of vegetable oil out of your pump and injectors, not just so that the injector pump contains diesel that'll actually get it started while cold, but also so as to prevent vegetable oil from gumming up , oxidizing, or whatever it is it does, when hot oil cools down on parts (can somebody set me straight on which it is if it's not the same thing please?) ... As I said : I'm no chemist or combustion physicist and without more detail it's hard to assess exactly what is going on. I will however make a few comments. I'm not totally sure about the point your making here Mark. When I read this I mentally hung a ? over it, as I don't recall having seen any reports of this and I ment to dig through the info I have to find any references... I haven't had a chance but this has been playing on my mind, all I can add is, what about single tank systems, particualy the well tested Elsbett. What do you base your statement on? Maybe this is something I have missed but I think it is an important area to get straight. I have only occassionally shut down on SVO for long periods, although sometimes I probably don't flush entirely
[biofuel] biofuel transportation concerns
Hello all. I am looking to transport 500 or more gallons of biodiesel at a time to supply our biofuels co-op. We have a trailer made for the purpose of fuel transport. Are there any legalities or practical concerns y'all might have encountered in transporting fuels? At what volume would someone need a special license or certifications? Hazmat placards? We are located in Wisconsin, USA. The fuel would be coming from Minnesota. Are there interstate commerce issues? Thanks for sharing your experience, Aaron in Wisconsin who mostly bikes and carpools for transportation Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] RE: shutdown flush (after a long pause)
I don't remember where I got that info- I thought it was standard thinking on svo conversion but that some people didn't pay attention to it, hence Gray's problems that he thinks might be due to long-term effect of incomplete flushes. I got my svo education from a whole lot of sources over the last few years, since the beginning of the svo movement here- so it could be old or wrong info if you're not finding it in standard thinking over there now.- I've heard and read so much that I disremember the exact source of where I got that- through several years of going to people's workshops, talking to a lot of people, and being on the vegoil-diesel and other lists, and reading a lot of stuff, both that linked all over the web and put out in print by various kitmakers and other svo enthusiasts. I thought that elsbett gets around all of this via the injector changes- that the higher pressure and different injector nozzles are less sensitive to clogging via cold oil than injectors optimized for petrodiesel are. I was also wondering how elsbett gets around this issue in pumps- though remember that some pumps are built much beefier than others, and that Elsbett doesn't recommend singletank for every vehicle, only some vehicles and some pumps. I think that Gray has one of the engines that elsbett doesn't recommend singletank for, and his power loss/noise/wear problem is eluding the several things he's done to try and diagnose and fix it. somebody certainly correct me if I'm wrong on this gumming issue. mark At 08:49 PM 1/21/2003 +, you wrote: From: girl mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 January 2003 18:41 Girl Mark said: slightly offtopic to what you're talking about above: Since we're talking about viscosity, I want to remind people that besides lowering viscosity and providing low-viscosity fuel for startup, another important function of two-tank systems is flushing any traces of vegetable oil out of your pump and injectors, not just so that the injector pump contains diesel that'll actually get it started while cold, but also so as to prevent vegetable oil from gumming up , oxidizing, or whatever it is it does, when hot oil cools down on parts (can somebody set me straight on which it is if it's not the same thing please?) ... As I said : I'm no chemist or combustion physicist and without more detail it's hard to assess exactly what is going on. I will however make a few comments. I'm not totally sure about the point your making here Mark. When I read this I mentally hung a ? over it, as I don't recall having seen any reports of this and I ment to dig through the info I have to find any references... I haven't had a chance but this has been playing on my mind, all I can add is, what about single tank systems, particualy the well tested Elsbett. What do you base your statement on? Maybe this is something I have missed but I think it is an important area to get straight. I have only occassionally shut down on SVO for long periods, although sometimes I probably don't flush entirely (It's a Mercedes engine so I feel I don't have to be very cautious.) I can't talk from personal experience but as far as I understand the numerous German single tankers who use both new oil and WVO (admittaly quite rare from what I understand) don't have such problems. The way I understand it, deposits are formed in the combustion chamber and/or cylinder (including and particually crucially on injector tips or in piston ring-lands) when the vegetable oil does not combust entirely due to incorrect injection, low heat in engine, low compression etc. Best wishes Darren Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=241773.2861420.4212388.1925585/D=egroupweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=1394044/R=0/*http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/pac_ctnt/text/0,,HGTV_3936_5802,FF.html5fd16f1.jpg 5fd1760.jpg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Hillbillies Fight Back
I saw it and was disappointed with the series. The guy doing the alcohol had a good plan. BUT they would not let the homesteaders HUNT .. That was what kept most of the homesteaders alive in days past!! And they could only cut down the trees Appointed to cut. Finally got my Chemistry Department interested in Biofuel. Did i ever get a good lesson on ACIDS. I think we are doing some Biofuel for EXPO this year.. i will keep pushing them. That is all i have for now TTFN David Wood murdoch wrote: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:49:57 +0900, you wrote: This is OT, or maybe not entirely, if rural energy and issues are a topic for us here - only 99% OT. g But I thought I'd relay it because it's so repulsive. Maybe some folks here would care to make their opinions known to CBS. Keith Did you read anywhere of the PBS series where they took several real families and put them on a plot in the West or Midwest and had them live, as much as possible, a homesteader's life? This included lots of research into tools available, etc. Very interesting. Didn't see much of it but I think I did catch one thing which is that they were all having a somewhat tough time of it, but one of the families started to do some alcohol production and found an economic niche. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Where the FFA comes from Was: Composting Glycerine?
Gotcha the soap dissolves in the glycerine phase ... that's the key. The SOAP is what's changing back to fatty acid ... not the glycerine. I was under the impression that when you said glycerin ... you meant pure glycerin.Soap ... changing back to FFA .. that makes sense. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] True, but the soap dissolves in the glycerine phase more readily than in the biodiesel phase, particularly if you add water before draining the glycerine (as I do). Adding acid to the soapy glycerine phase causes the saponification to be reversed, freeing the fatty acid. Until that reaction has gone all the way, you have a transitional state with FFAs, glycerine/water, and soap all together -- ripe for emulsion formation. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] RE: shutdown flush (after a long pause)
Hi all: One more aspect of this is that the WVO is more acidic and thicker at the same temperature compared to new oil. Purging the pump seems a good idea for both reasons. Easier on the pump on cold starts (diesel or biodiesel, not WVO), and not leaving WVO in the pump for the many hours that the engine is not running. Also good to have those injectors cleaned out daily with a good shot of diesel prior to shutdown (I usually save my Italian tune up (with all due respect to Italians!), i.e. running it through the gears, to when I am purging on diesel/biodiesel if I can. Ed On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 01:06 PM, craig reece wrote: Mark (and Darren,) I think that cold oil in the fuel injection pump isn't a problem because of gumming - it's only a problem if the cold oil's still cold when it reaches the combustion chamber, or the pre-combustion chamber. Elsbett gets around this cold oil problem in two ways - via the glowplugs that get hotter (we think) and (for sure) stay on longer than normal 'plugs, and by means of the heated fuel filter. And, as you point out, the special injector nozzle bodies and nozzle valves that Elsbett provides - plus the fact that they have you take your injectors to your local Bosch injector shop to turn up the opening pressure may both also help cold oil combust. Neoteric's VEG-Therm would also probably help - that is, if one were attempting to create a DIY one-tank system. If you plumbed a VEG-Therm into the system after the fuel injection pump and before the injectors, you'd be ensuring that you had hot fuel to (easily) combust. The absence of flushing of WVO or SVO via biodiesel or dinodiesel in a one-tank system does, I think, make it very important that you're completely combusting your fuel - as Darren points out. Otherwise, you might get the dreaded injector coking that we hear about. Easy to check for by removing an injector or two. As far as Gray's Powersmoke - I sent Gray to see Mac Jacobson, the best diesel mechanic I know, and Mac drove it, and thought it seemed fine, and he sent Gray away with a couple of cans of LubraMoly diesel purge to run through the engine. (And it's occurred to me that running LubraMoly on a regular basis through any engine running WVO/SVO - single-tank or two-tank - isn't a bad idea, just in case you might be getting a little injector coking. Either that, or pull the injectors regularly to check 'em.) Craig girl mark wrote: I don't remember where I got that info- I thought it was standard thinking on svo conversion but that some people didn't pay attention to it, hence Gray's problems that he thinks might be due to long-term effect of incomplete flushes. I got my svo education from a whole lot of sources over the last few years, since the beginning of the svo movement here- so it could be old or wrong info if you're not finding it in standard thinking over there now.- I've heard and read so much that I disremember the exact source of where I got that- through several years of going to people's workshops, talking to a lot of people, and being on the vegoil-diesel and other lists, and reading a lot of stuff, both that linked all over the web and put out in print by various kitmakers and other svo enthusiasts. I thought that elsbett gets around all of this via the injector changes- that the higher pressure and different injector nozzles are less sensitive to clogging via cold oil than injectors optimized for petrodiesel are. I was also wondering how elsbett gets around this issue in pumps- though remember that some pumps are built much beefier than others, and that Elsbett doesn't recommend singletank for every vehicle, only some vehicles and some pumps. I think that Gray has one of the engines that elsbett doesn't recommend singletank for, and his power loss/noise/wear problem is eluding the several things he's done to try and diagnose and fix it. somebody certainly correct me if I'm wrong on this gumming issue. mark At 08:49 PM 1/21/2003 +, you wrote: From: girl mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 January 2003 18:41 Girl Mark said: slightly offtopic to what you're talking about above: Since we're talking about viscosity, I want to remind people that besides lowering viscosity and providing low-viscosity fuel for startup, another important function of two-tank systems is flushing any traces of vegetable oil out of your pump and injectors, not just so that the injector pump contains diesel that'll actually get it started while cold, but also so as to prevent vegetable oil from gumming up , oxidizing, or whatever it is it does, when hot oil cools down on parts (can somebody set me straight on which it is if it's not the same thing please?) ... As I said : I'm no chemist or combustion physicist and without more detail it's hard to assess exactly what is going on. I will however make a
Re: [biofuel] RE: shutdown flush (after a long pause)
Gray did the Diesel Purge regimen and says it didn't entirely help. I wonder if there's a difference between the petrodiesel crud that Purge is designed to knock loose and SVO related deposits- probably not much. Mark At 01:06 PM 1/21/2003 -0800, you wrote: As far as Gray's Powersmoke - I sent Gray to see Mac Jacobson, the best diesel mechanic I know, and Mac drove it, and thought it seemed fine, and he sent Gray away with a couple of cans of LubraMoly diesel purge to run through the engine. (And it's occurred to me that running LubraMoly on a regular basis through any engine running WVO/SVO - single-tank or two-tank - isn't a bad idea, just in case you might be getting a little injector coking. Either that, or pull the injectors regularly to check 'em.) Craig Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] FW: Polish Biofuels
http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/19478/story.htm Polish president vetoes controversial biofuel bill Mail this story to a friend | Printer friendly version POLAND: January 20, 2003 WARSAW - Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski vetoed a controversial biofuels bill last week after it had been harshly criticised by auto industry and consumers groups. The bill would impose a minimum level of so-called bio-components in all petrol sold in Poland that significantly exceed norms prevailing in member states of the European Union, which Poland is to join in May, 2004. I decided not to sign the bill, to veto it, Kwasniewski told a news conference. It remains unclear if the bill's sponsor, the co-ruling Peasants Party (PSL), will muster a three-fifths majority in parliament needed to overturn the presidential veto. The bill would benefit farmers by guaranteeing them stable prices for crops used to produce petrol additives, such as ethanol. Consumer groups have said the bill violates freedom of choice while some car makers have warned biofuels could be harmful for certain engines. Biofuels are lauded by many environmentalists as less polluting that regular petrol. The bill sets a minimum of 4.5 percent ethanol content in all petrol sold in Poland and a similar level of plant oil in bio-diesels. EU members states usually encourage the use of biofuels by partly exempting them from the excise tax. The EU has suggested that a two-percent level be used by 2005 and 5.75 by 2010. Germany is now the western European country with the highest level of bio-component in petrol - 1.3 percent. But Poland's legislation violates EU laws by forcing sellers to use Polish-made petrol additives. This part of the bill would have be amended anyway by the time we join the EU, one government official told Reuters. The bill's advocates say it would boost demand for sugar beets, rapeseed and cereals, creating jobs much needed in the country where unemployment reaches nearly 18 percent. Critics say it would benefit mainly a handful of large producers and owners of distilleries, which are often linked to the bill's champions, the co-ruling PSL party. REUTERS NEWS SERVICE C 2003 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. TODAY'S ENVIRONMENT NEWS AUSTRALIA: FACTBOX - Australia, ancient land scarred by bushfires AUSTRALIA: Australian bushfire damage hits A$100 mln BRAZIL: INTERVIEW - Brazil's green chief targets Petrobras polluter CANADA: Canadian seals hit by thinning ice cover - report GERMANY: INTERVIEW - Germany's nuclear exit a mistake - Vattenfall NORWAY: Norway to push energy-saving after price shocks TAIWAN: Thousands protest against Taiwan move on plastic bags UK: Hundreds of thousands worldwide protest Iraq war UK: UK awards grants for wave, tidal power generation USA: US pressing for cuts in greenhouse gases - NYTimes USA: EU denies US charge of immoral biotech policy USA: US food supply seen vulnerable to attack USA: US worries North Korea will sell nuclear bombs USA: Californian penguins swim in mock migration to nowhere VENEZUELA: Venezuelan oil output rises, spills worsen - strikers Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Where the FFA comes from Was: Composting Glycerine?
On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 01:03 PM, girl mark wrote: I got some bad emulsification the one time I tried a remix How much do you agitate it when doing a remix? I do a glycerine remix with the motor and no added water a couple times with settling in between. Then I gently add the water (4 liters for a 28 liter batch of biodiesel), put away the paint stirrer/drill and bring out the big ladle. At this phase one must be very gentle. I lift the glycerine and let it fall gently back thru the biodiesel, maybe for 3 minutes or so. Let settle a half hour and repeat 3 or 4 times. Then let the glycerine/water settle real well, like overnite. Separate out the biodiesel and wash like you usually do -- I'll bet you notice a big difference. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biofuel transportation concerns
Aaron, Check with the Wisconsin DOT. You will have to do the same for the Minnesota leg of your run. We should be ready to produce (175 gpd) as soon as the weather cooperates. Are you using the fuel for on-road? Craig Green Bay - Original Message - From: Aaron Ellringer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 3:07 PM Subject: [biofuel] biofuel transportation concerns Hello all. I am looking to transport 500 or more gallons of biodiesel at a time to supply our biofuels co-op. We have a trailer made for the purpose of fuel transport. Are there any legalities or practical concerns y'all might have encountered in transporting fuels? At what volume would someone need a special license or certifications? Hazmat placards? We are located in Wisconsin, USA. The fuel would be coming from Minnesota. Are there interstate commerce issues? Thanks for sharing your experience, Aaron in Wisconsin who mostly bikes and carpools for transportation Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What a waste
Melt the fat, mix it with the oil at 120*F and make biodiesel out of both. The filtered material could be pressed (just a screw press and a metal box with holes in it)to get the remainder of the oil out (and water). It can then be composted readily. Raccoons, opossums, stray dogs, cats and all will love you for it :-) Todd - Original Message - From: outatime [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 3:00 PM Subject: [biofuel] What a waste Ok now im stumped, im just starting to make the biofuel for my iveco truck, will some one please tell me what im going to do with all the FAT . Ive just sivved the oil ive collect 60ltrs, and 10 ltrs was fat, im letting it settle again to see how much more of the oil i can get out of it, but what do i do with the gunge im left with, any ideas? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: trying to register a fuel alcohol still in Canada
Rob, Contact Canada Customs and Revenue Agency www.ccra-adrc.gc.ca Info available under Excise Tax You might try calling Chris Lewis ( fuel sector ) at 613-957-8642 You will need to obtain a licence for constructing or using any type of distillation equipment ( except that used for distilling water, but even that has to meet certain specs to avoid running afoul of the tax act ) I would suggest reading the Excise Tax Act ( also online ) boring as it may be, it contains a lot of info, which might help to know about before calling the folks at CCRA. In any event, the regs here in Canada make it very troublesome to even attempt to do experimenting in any reasonable way. ( for example the vessel your fuel condenses into has to be locked and opened only when Excise Tax officer is there kind of hard if you want to check out quality of your batch... other roadblocks also will apply ) Hope this helps... I assume others on the list would be interested in hearing back from you as to how thing go should you go further with this. Regards HVD --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, RobLunan [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Sorry to pester you. I'm at my whit's end. I can find lots of info on registering a fuel alcohol still in the USA but nothing in Canada. Do you know who to contact in Canada or do you have a link? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please e-mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cheers, Rob Lunan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: trying to register a fuel alcohol still in Canada
Rob, You will need to obtain a licence for constructing or using any type of distillation equipment ( except that used for distilling water, but even that has to meet certain specs to avoid running afoul of the tax act ).. In any event, the regs here in Canada make it very troublesome to even attempt to do experimenting in any reasonable way... Hope this helps... I assume others on the list would be interested in hearing back from you as to how thing go should you go further with this Just curious -- are Canadians particularly law-abiding? I ask just cuz I've noticed the French really seem to GENUINELY love their gummint -- maybe the Canadiens feel similarly? Here in America, many of us older fokes (60s an' all :-)) sort of DETEST ours, and don't mind running afoul of its sillier regulations from time to time. Just wondering ... . Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
fun with the goo in the grease was Re: [biofuel] What a waste
You can make biodiesel out of solid fat and liquid oil and shortening and lard and tallow. They'll produce fuel with slightly different characteristics (expecially the animal fat) but they'll all work. The sludge could be solid fats or hydrogenated shortening, or it could be the breading or other starch that fell off of the food they fried. Yuck. If it's the starchy stuff then it can hold water (water gets into it from the cooking, not from anything the restaurant necessarily did) , and water can mess up your reaction. but you won't know just by looking at it how much water content there is. I don't worry about a little sludge in my oil unless it's a lot of it and I don't think it's fat- you can prefilter by pouring the warm oil through a screen- but it's a pain. I just leave the sludge in the restaurant grease barrel if I have a choice, and I go ahead and make fuel with whatever goo is in the oil. The food bits end up in the glycerine layer. I always test oil I get from restaurants for water- I take a sample of the nastiest stuff I hauled home (ie the sludgier stuff from lower down in the grease barrel) and I put it on the kitchen stove with a thermometer in it (and the fan on since it usually smells so foul). I heat it to the boiling point of water and see how much it sputters. If it's fizzing or popping a little bit, it's probably Ok, but if it's just spitting or it looks like it's just absolutely boiling, I will have to dewater it or boil the water off before using it to make fuel. The water content matters more (it will cause more soaps to form) if the titration is high- ie the oil is high in free fatty acid. Look around journeytoforever for dewatering info... I think you only need to worry about pressing oil out of food bits sludge and all that if you've got a formal contract with a restaurant and you have to take all they put into the grease barrel. If you're just a rogue oil-getter who is not responsible for taking all they have to offer, you can leave the majority of that garbage for the renderers to deal with. (though judging by the fact that the dumpster at the local fish frying place still has the same exact breading in the bottom of it from weeks ago (and same chunks of cardboard stuck in the breading) I think that the renderers try and avoid taking it too!) Mark At 08:52 PM 1/21/2003 -0500, you wrote: Melt the fat, mix it with the oil at 120*F and make biodiesel out of both. The filtered material could be pressed (just a screw press and a metal box with holes in it)to get the remainder of the oil out (and water). It can then be composted readily. Raccoons, opossums, stray dogs, cats and all will love you for it :-) Todd - Original Message - From: outatime [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 3:00 PM Subject: [biofuel] What a waste Ok now im stumped, im just starting to make the biofuel for my iveco truck, will some one please tell me what im going to do with all the FAT . Ive just sivved the oil ive collect 60ltrs, and 10 ltrs was fat, im letting it settle again to see how much more of the oil i can get out of it, but what do i do with the gunge im left with, any ideas? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=241773.2861422.4212389.1925585/D=egroupweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=1394044/R=0/*http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/pac_ctnt/text/0,,HGTV_3936_5802,FF.html7320b08.jpg 7320b80.jpg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] RE: shutdown flush (after a long pause)
One thing I really wonder about is how much the higher ffa matters. Any data on that? It's in the biodiesel specification, and I don't know enough about what it does and at what concentrations. I don't use svo at the moment partly because I don't want to use acidic fuel, and most svo'ers I know don't check ffa of their oil (though it's SO easy to do a very crude, cheap-equipment titration). I'd love to know how much of an issue this actually is... Mark At 02:11 PM 1/21/2003 -0800, you wrote: Hi all: One more aspect of this is that the WVO is more acidic and thicker at the same temperature compared to new oil. Purging the pump seems a good idea for both reasons. Easier on the pump on cold starts (diesel or biodiesel, not WVO), and not leaving WVO in the pump for the many hours that the engine is not running. Also good to have those injectors cleaned out daily with a good shot of diesel prior to shutdown (I usually save my Italian tune up (with all due respect to Italians!), i.e. running it through the gears, to when I am purging on diesel/biodiesel if I can. Ed On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 01:06 PM, craig reece wrote: Mark (and Darren,) I think that cold oil in the fuel injection pump isn't a problem because of gumming - it's only a problem if the cold oil's still cold when it reaches the combustion chamber, or the pre-combustion chamber. Elsbett gets around this cold oil problem in two ways - via the glowplugs that get hotter (we think) and (for sure) stay on longer than normal 'plugs, and by means of the heated fuel filter. And, as you point out, the special injector nozzle bodies and nozzle valves that Elsbett provides - plus the fact that they have you take your injectors to your local Bosch injector shop to turn up the opening pressure may both also help cold oil combust. Neoteric's VEG-Therm would also probably help - that is, if one were attempting to create a DIY one-tank system. If you plumbed a VEG-Therm into the system after the fuel injection pump and before the injectors, you'd be ensuring that you had hot fuel to (easily) combust. The absence of flushing of WVO or SVO via biodiesel or dinodiesel in a one-tank system does, I think, make it very important that you're completely combusting your fuel - as Darren points out. Otherwise, you might get the dreaded injector coking that we hear about. Easy to check for by removing an injector or two. As far as Gray's Powersmoke - I sent Gray to see Mac Jacobson, the best diesel mechanic I know, and Mac drove it, and thought it seemed fine, and he sent Gray away with a couple of cans of LubraMoly diesel purge to run through the engine. (And it's occurred to me that running LubraMoly on a regular basis through any engine running WVO/SVO - single-tank or two-tank - isn't a bad idea, just in case you might be getting a little injector coking. Either that, or pull the injectors regularly to check 'em.) Craig girl mark wrote: I don't remember where I got that info- I thought it was standard thinking on svo conversion but that some people didn't pay attention to it, hence Gray's problems that he thinks might be due to long-term effect of incomplete flushes. I got my svo education from a whole lot of sources over the last few years, since the beginning of the svo movement here- so it could be old or wrong info if you're not finding it in standard thinking over there now.- I've heard and read so much that I disremember the exact source of where I got that- through several years of going to people's workshops, talking to a lot of people, and being on the vegoil-diesel and other lists, and reading a lot of stuff, both that linked all over the web and put out in print by various kitmakers and other svo enthusiasts. I thought that elsbett gets around all of this via the injector changes- that the higher pressure and different injector nozzles are less sensitive to clogging via cold oil than injectors optimized for petrodiesel are. I was also wondering how elsbett gets around this issue in pumps- though remember that some pumps are built much beefier than others, and that Elsbett doesn't recommend singletank for every vehicle, only some vehicles and some pumps. I think that Gray has one of the engines that elsbett doesn't recommend singletank for, and his power loss/noise/wear problem is eluding the several things he's done to try and diagnose and fix it. somebody certainly correct me if I'm wrong on this gumming issue. mark At 08:49 PM 1/21/2003 +, you wrote: From: girl mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 January 2003 18:41 Girl Mark said: slightly offtopic to what you're talking about above: Since we're talking about viscosity, I want to remind people that besides lowering viscosity and providing low-viscosity fuel for startup,
[biofuel] Re: Composting Glycerine?
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glycerine (glycerol) It used to be used in smoke machines. Maybe someone can figure out how to mix it with water, run it through a VEG-Therm, (which will do a nice job of making the fog-like smoke, I am quite sure) into a venturi, into the turbo, and mist fumigate the diesel with it, thus getting rid of the glyc by using it in the diesel, reducing NOx via fumigation, and getting more power all at the same time. Edward Beggs Neoteric Biofuels Inc. http://www.biofuels.ca Home of the G3 SVO kit and the VEG-Therm 12/24V inline SVO heater. Ed, I like the way you think! Not just 'outside the box', but more like What box?! I have too many 'Irons in the Fire' right now, but I can see much potential for your idea, particularly in a stationary application where size and weight constraints aren't as critical. A Bio-Diesel engine turning a Generator, with Exhaust and Coolant heat recovery shouldn't be too difficult to put together. CHP with waste-disposal all in one package!!! Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
