[biofuel] Keith does our bidding...
Grass fed beef hamburger with organic lettuce, tomato and pickle (on the side)... Ice cold lemonade with a sprig of mint... Hammock in the shade... Please bring to Aloha Oregon... I've been wanting to meet you... lezlie/Aloha OR At 07:06 PM 6/19/04 +0900, you wrote: SUBJECT: Re: request for list From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] *snip*... and I do their bidding, which I'm in a very good position to judge. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: PLEASE READ - MODERATOR'S MESSAGE
Keith, Having been a list memeber on various lists with yahoo over the past 10 years I am well aware of these kind of mess ups. And Yahoo is known for lending a deaf ear to anything that doesn't effect them personally. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Raschig rings
Greetings all, I'm planning to build a small ethanol still (http://www.moonshine- still.com/still.pdf). Anyone know of a reputable source of raschig rings, or have any other recommendations for still packing material? (steel wool?) Ben Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Raschig rings
Greetings all, I am planning to build a small ethanol still, http://www.moonshine-still.com/still.pdf, and would like to know if anyone can recommend a reputable source of raschig rings, or have any ideas of substitutes? (steel wool?) Ben Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Waste oil
Hi , Maybe somebody can help me with this query. I am about to make my first batch of boidiesel from 50 litres of WVO. I have made a few small 1 litre batches from this oil already and everything worked fine. The WVO looked very clean as I took it from the top of the barrel. When I was decanting the whole 50 litres last night I noticed that about 80% of the WVO was really nice looking and looked practically unused, just like the WVO I used for the litre batches. About the last 20% was made up of what I presume to be the animal fats that were in the oil due to whatever was cooked in it. My question is: do I use this fatty oil as well and just mix it with the very good vegetable oil or do I scrap it as I'm sure it is fully of free fatty acids and hence hard to convert to biodiesel with the simple base stage which I want to use? Regards, Dermot -Original Message- From: Kim Garth Travis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 June 2004 13:08 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] solar panels was Re: Australia - home brewers have to pay excise I think your statement is reasonable, except that you have a very wrong reason for why many people do not use solar panels. What has happened in Houston, Texas and probably elsewhere is that the homeowners boards in most areas won't allow the panels as they are considered unsightly. I own the list for Houston Renewable Energy Group started by a couple of NASA Engineers and this is a real problem. My second problem with solar panels is the amount of pollution created and energy used in creating the panels. Trying to find numbers on this is not easy, but if someone is going to put for solar panels as a solution, then this information should be presented as part of the case, IMHO. Let us see the whole picture, please. You are correct, that AC should only be needed on extremely hot days, that is, if your place was designed for the climate, properly. After all it is summer, and suppose to be warm. The number of people that walk around with summer colds from over air conditioning is ridiculous. Me, I use a sprinkler on my roof and it does 50% of my cooling. Bright Blessings, Kim At 02:41 PM 6/17/2004, you wrote: Recycling is interesting from a variety of levels. You are likely correct that it may be there primarily to assuage guilt. But the interesting thing is governments are paying for it to happen. It was a first step and it proves that we are capable of moving further. Packaging legislation decreasing packaging in the first place is another example of how we have moved forward. The key is finding baby steps. The energy problem is of course huge and there are few solutions in site that look intelligent. Here is an interesting idea: Solar power is not commonly used on housing because the panels are cheap but the batteries are expensive and environmentally unfriendly. Stop using batteries. Instead of shingles I put panels over my entire roof. This produces enough power for my entire house including air conditioning when it is sunny. Any extra power I get I pump back into the grid. I don't really care what I get back for it. I just need to bleed it and hey that was less burned coal. If there is some deal where I get something for it all the better. When I need normal power I buy it from the electricity company. I may produce as much solar energy as I consume ending up net zero and cut my electric bills in half. And I may just be more comfortable for example my air conditioning is generally turned off at the moment. I only use it for rediculously hot days. Hot days are generally sunny so more power means more air conditioning. Possibly in the winter I use electric heat which only is fed from the solar panels to bleed energy. So does anyone think this is viable? - bfn - JAW -- Original Message -- From: Bruce Colley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:59:27 -0700 I still think there are ways to protect our future without projecting the ultimate doom of the planet. I look around at the recycling programs today and they astound me considering our lifestyle of 20 years ago. We need to find ways to change things for the better that are easily acceptable by all of the public like recycling. That is the battle for the here and now. Don't stop working the world is getting better. - bfn - JAW From a U.S. perspective, I see the present level of recycling as simply indicative of our huge level of consumption, and I think that at least a significant reason for its increasing popularity is that it serves to soothe the conscience of the over consumers. On my street, a huge, noisy truck, which deteriorates the road, comes by and unloads the recycle bins and then carts this off to a plant 20 miles away where it is sorted and then eventually reprocessed, all
Re: Re: [biofuel] Washing 1 liter batches
Todd, Thanks for the thoughts. I had totally ignored the left over moisture from the washing on the next reaction batch. A follow up thought: If the reaction is complete (say with an acid/base process) would not pump mixing be just or more effective than mist or bubble washing? Even though the motor would take more power, wouldn't the wash occur more rapidly leaving the energy balance a wash? Steve --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve, There are a number of good reasons to not use a reactor as a wash vessel. 1) Water contamination during reaction stages. 2) Expended time evacuating a reactor of all water prior to reaction stages. 3) Undersized vessel for water washes. (110 gallon reactor yields ~91 gallons fuel, leaving only enough room for 19 gallons of water, erego the introduction of flush washing, aka mist washing) 4) Mist washing in such a set-up generally doesn't include separation/settling of micro-droplets of fuel from the wash water, leaving some fuel to be discarded with the wash. Could probably come up with another half-dozen associated/downstream problems. But those are the predominant ones. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 11:33 PM Subject: Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Washing 1 liter batches From steven mesibov: FROM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DATE: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:19:32 -0700 (PDT) SUBJECT: Re: [biofuel] Washing 1 liter batches Keith, Todd, et. al., I have read so much on the need for washing and the different methods and on the fact that violent washing is okay if you process correctly that it just occurred to me: Why not use the reaction vessel for washing as well as the initial mixing? Would pump washing (especially if you used something like Lyle's at Piedmont Static In-Line Mixer by KoFlo) be acceptable? It would certainly save on having another large container for small operations. Steve --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Brian Hello. I am just starting in the production of my own biodiesel. I have made several 1 liter test batches, Good for you! but I'm not sure how to wash them. I can't find anything online particular to small batches, but I have found sources that say bubblewashing will be too violent and cause emulsification. People who say bubblewashing's too violent and set off on a quest for ever-gentler washing methods (eg mist washing) have taken a wrong turn before they start. Gentle washing techniques only mask the real problem, which is that the stuff isn't processed properly in the first place, they need to improve their processing. Emulsification doesn't normally happen with well-processed fuel. It's caused by either (or probably both) too much soap and poor conversion, leaving diglycerides and monoglycerides, which are emulsifiers. If your fuel's properly made you won't be able to emulsify it no matter how violently you agitate it. That is what you should be aiming for. See Emulsification and Emulsion Explained here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash2.html#emuls So, some suggestions. First, take about 150ml of your finished, unwashed fuel and do this with it: Quality testing http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality Let us know what happens. Second, you can bubblewash it, in a 2-litre PET bottle. From Todd: You can use the pop-up cap found on water bottles at your grocer as the valve for drainage. This turns any PET bottle into a separative funnel. It takes a little practice to get the valve to trickle properly, but it does work superbly. More details on how that works here: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/13265/ You know those pop-up caps? Maybe made for cyclists or something. We've used something a little different (I think), a screw-on pop-up cap with a straw through the middle that goes right down to the bottom of the bottle, with an air-inlet gap around the straw, and the cap closing both the straw and the air-inlet. Do your bubblewash, remove the air-stone and air-pipe from the pump, screw on the pop-up cap, turn the bottle upside down and allow to settle. To drain off the settled water, hold the bottle (still upside down) over the sink or something, lift the cap; the water comes out the air-inlet gap, air goes up the straw to the top (bottom) of the bottle, and draining is smooth without any glug-glugging that'll splash and prevent a clean separation. If you can't find something like this you could easily rig it with some thin air-pipe and epoxy putty. If you can't find an air-stone small enough to fit the neck of the PET
Re: [biofuel] Re: What went wrong?
thanks Brian I'm doing another test batch and so far looks like black stuff on the botton..in the middle looks like ligth brown with gummy stuff and a litle bit on top of something like biodiesel but I'm not sure yet.I'll wait till tomorrow to see what looks like...thanks anyway I own a video club that's why of the name...and i registered this address... jorge - Original Message - From: Brian To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 9:12 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: What went wrong? Jorge, I am trying another test batch this weekend (was unable to put the time in last weekend) with different NaOH. A second test batch following instructions to the T gave the same results. I see the results as an incomplete reaction, with the gummy stuff being an emulsion. I suspect my NaOH supply as the culprit. I'll let folks know if this turns out to actually be the case. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Vip Video Club [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Im having the same thing as Brian...I did the washing in a jar and i got the same. The 5 gal. bucket that i was processing it turned with a gummy stuff on top and underneath that layer is something like used motor oil. I did everything like the instructions,but something went wrong.It seems like the glycerin went to the top and nothing to the botton of the bucket. somebody tell me what i did wrong? Jorge Escobar - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] What went wrong? Brian, Any other thoughts? Other than going back and adhering to the instructions more precisely? Nope. Not a one. What you apparently have is an incomplete reaction on the base side, leaving you with a compliment of esters and emulsifiers, the latter being unreacted mono- and di-glycerides. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 7:27 AM Subject: [biofuel] What went wrong? Well, my first test batch is done, and the end result is less than spectacular. Wondering if anyone has any ideas. I completed the second stage as instructed. 1/2 of my methoxide in, mix for 5 minutes, heat to 130 F, add the remaining methoxide and mix hot until nice golden amber. This only took about 10 minutes, and I continued mixing for a total of 15. Since the instructions say it will take one and a half to two hours, I think this may be one place that things went wrong, although the appearance when I finished was just as described. I let the mixture settle in an old 2 liter soda bottle for about 6 hours, and it looked exactly like the pictures on the JTF web site. Clear, golden amber layer on top with dark glycerol on the bottom. I called the test batch a great success and went on to wash my new biodiesel, which is where the problem came up. I put about 1/3 liter water in a clean 2 liter bottle, decanted the biodiesel on top of it, then shook. I probably shook a little vigorously, but with the assumption that the foolproof method would leave me with product which could withstand this type of washing. What I have now is a cloudy, murky yellow layer of nearly one liter followed by a guhky layer looking most like old soap scum and then a small amount of cloudy water. Since the middle layer looks like soap scum, I am assuming that is exactly what it is. I assume also that the upper layer is biodiesel with water still in it, and may clear eventually. The bottom layer is obviously water with the water soluble leftovers from the biodiesel process. My take on the problem is that either I did not heat and stir long enough in stage two, overheated in stage one or agitated too vigorously in the wash stage. I think it is probably a combination of not enough processing in stage two and overzealous agitation in washing that caused the problem. Any other thoughts? Brian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[biofuel] Re: Theoretical Question
you can get a small distillers permit if you have no criminal record, it allows you to make up to 10,000 gallons of ethanol for fuel for your own use. the fee is $25.00 of course ,this assumes that you are in the Usa. if you arent, do it anyway as long as you denature it immediatly with lye its no longer potable so it becomes a non issue . there is no law against making ethyloxide at least not yet. marc --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You could make the lye, and then crystallize it, although in some parts of the world, where humidity is an issue, you might need to apply heat, to drive off the water. The only issue I see would be the need to involve the government, due to the ethanol part. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Kim Garth Travis To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 16:06 Subject: [biofuel] Theoretical Question I am wondering if it is possible to make biodiesel completely on the farm. It is relatively easy to grow the seeds to press, and one can make ethanol, which will work. The problem is the lye. Now I know how to make lye from hardwood ashes to make soap, but I wouldn't want the water in a batch of biodiesel. Is it possible to home manufacture everything that is needed? Bright Blessings, Kim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PLEASE READ - MODERATOR'S MESSAGE
Hakan / Keith, What has happened, somebody hack the group??? I know that yesterday I had 250+ messages it took time to sort them out. I wasn't sure if that was the result of the hacker, or it was normal e-mail. Gregg - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] PLEASE READ - MODERATOR'S MESSAGE Keith, This is very disturbing and will fall back on the perpetrators and what they represent. I hope that you can ride out this storm and I am sure that we who really find this list useful and balanced, will support you in your difficulties. I suggest that we create a backup list on a majordomo backup list somewhere and let us sign up for that. Such a list might have better banning features and give better vetting possibilities, if it ever come to a stage were it would be needed to leave Yahoo groups and their limited protection in such cases. We could also create a signup to accounts on our own mail domain (similar to hotmail) and use that one as the only way to get on to the list. The best is to try to fight it out and block any who tries to overload the list. It would also be a good thing to publish the names from which the attacks comes from, because it could be a result from a virus and the sender must be informed about that he/she is a potential problem and that over the list. Hakan At 06:32 19/06/2004, you wrote: Dear all My apologies for this ghastly flood of old messages we've all been subjected to in the last 24 hours. This was a attack on the list by a hacker, highly malicious and extremely childish. I hope to be able to tell you more about it soon. For now, the culprit has, I think, been dealt with and hopefully it should be over. There were 800 false messages sent altogether in 24 hours. I managed to stop 500 of them, but there was nothing I could do about the rest, I'm very sorry to say. They were all previous messages from bona-fide list members sent again with the current date. Yahoo, as expected, proved worse than useless when it came to any assistance - their own website and its controls had been compromised, but they just weren't interested. Unfortunately, some genuine messages got caught up in the flood of false messages. I managed to save some of them, which I'm now forwarding to the list. Others may have been lost. If your message does not show up, please send it again. My apologies for this too. I suppose there'll be some residual confusion for a day or so, but I do hope we can all now get on with business-as-usual free of interference from people I can only describe as psychopaths. Meanwhile I've had to set the whole list to Moderated to stem this flood of garbage. This is just an emergency measure and I'll reset it to Unmoderated as soon as it seems safe to do so. In the meantime there'll be some delay while new messages wait to be cleared, sorry for the inconvenience. What has surprised me is that more list members haven't unsubscribed, faced with this onslaught. Few if any seem to have done so. Thankyou so much for your patience and tolerance. A nice demonstration of just what a tiny minority among sane and decent people the sociopathic element is, even on the Internet. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:
[biofuel] Re: Theoretical Question
would you know how strong the lye is? I am looking at worst case scenario for our world so I don't think government will have anything to do with the ethanol. Bright Blessings, Kim Hello, if you are looking at the worst case scenarios, have a look at the caveman chemistry book, might be interesting for you. http://cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Question on veggie oil fuel
Dear friends, I just bought an 89 Ford diesel with the intention of running veggie oil or used oil instead of diesel. I understand that veggie oil is cleaner, so hope to go that route. My question is this: If I heat the veggie oil in its own tank with a radiator source heat coil in the tank, and maybe heat the fuel filter up the line prior to injection, do I need to process the used veggie oil, other than a good pre-filtering job prior to pouring it into my veggie tank in my van? If so, what exactly is the process required to extract the glycerols, etc... Thanks for your help. Dale[EMAIL PROTECTED] or[EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Direct oil conversion?
Actually Glycerol is one of the intermediate steps in the complex enzyme reactions we know (and love) as yeast fermentation Yeast MAKE glycerol(glycerine) from sugar before they make ethanol. So any glycerine can be converted to ethanol by introducing it (hopefully as purified as possible) into an active fermentation. AllanD --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/15/04 7:35 AM, tomasjkn at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems to me, that there should be a direct chemical conversion route from oil to fatty acid methyl esters. (R-COO)-CH2-(R-COO-)CH-CH2-(-COO-R) +3H2 == 3 R-COO-CH3 Unfortunately, the ester linkage will always be much easier to break than the C-C bonds in the glycerol. I don't believe what you're suggesting would be possible. Or, perhaps a less radical idea, but achieving the same economy: Maybe there is a route to convert your waste glycerol into methanol? CH2OH-CHOH-CH2OH + 3H2 == 3 CH3OH This one is much more likely -- there are probly bacteria or yeasts that could break down a simple sugar like glycerol directly to methanol. If not, they could certainly be bioengineered :-)-K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] SVO/WVO as substitute for Fuel oil?
As in burning SVO or filtered WVO in an oil furnace to heat my house and domestic hot water as a substitute for home heating oil Is converting to Bio-D necissary? I can even live with cutting the SVO/WVO with heating oil, Diesel (either Dino or Bio) or kerosene... If I could convert SOME (20% or less)of the WVO to Bio-D to make the remaining WVO burn correctly that'd make my task far easier... Anyone have any answers, thoughts ??? ANY replies appreciated, my previous posts seem to have been ignored. Allan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Oops....
Hello Allan, welcome The biodiesel by-product cocktail is a mixture of glycerine, soap, the catalyst (lye or KOH) and the excess methanol. I was aware of that. is basically the same process as seperating ethanol from water. If you mean distillation, it's only the same up to a point, and the differences are important to biofuellers. When you distill ethanol from a mash it's mixed with other things, other alcohols, fusel oils, etc, but the methanol is already pure, all you need do is separate it, much simpler. Also, unlike ethanol, there's no azeotropic effect with methanol, so there's no remaining water problem. With ethanol the fact that the last 4% or so of water can't I think it's 4.4%, but yeah be removed by distillation causes much difficulty for people wanting to distill their own ethanol to make ethyl esters biodiesel, for instance. Can you say Quick lime? sure you can Purifying the glycerine? Do you mean separating it from the other components? If you want relatively pure glycerine you should separate it from the other components before removing the excess methanol, otherwise it won't separate. SeeSeparating glycerine: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html#separate On separation, the methanol does go with the glycerine component and can then be reclaimed the usual way, by means of a simple condenser. This will give you industrial-grade glycerine, 90-95% pure or something like that, for which you might be able to find a niche market. Purifying it further is another matter, very energy- intensive - the boiling point is 290 deg C, 554 deg F. See Purifying glycerine: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html#purify As I said in another reply The glycerine can be composted (sorta) by introducing it to an ongoing yeast fermentation, as glycerine/glycerol is one of the intermediate steps of the complex enzymatic reaction we know of as yeast fermentation And while Glycerine would be useful to some people ethanol would might be more useful... BTW, if I understand correctly it's necissary to switch to KOH when using ethanol in a Bio-D conversion, is that correct? Allan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Model engine
Can you make Bio diesel thin Enough for a small model airplane engine? Jeffrey Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] METHANOL fromPONGAMIA SHELLS
DEAR BALAJI, Your message on SYNNTHESIS OFMETHANOL was very informative and useful I would appreciate if you or any one from our group could provide me process of utilizing the shells of pongamia in to methanol as of now we are planing to process bio-diesel in big way, since about 50% of the pods are seeds and above 50% are shells the usage of shells in to methanol will be a great idea to avoide using fossil methanol. Closing with regards, Shashikumar, Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] METHANOL from PONGAMIA PODS/SHELLS
balaji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Art, - Original Message - From: Art Krenzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 2:43 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) Bob, I have worked with the biomass gasification process for quite a few years and the conversion efficiency of biomass carbon to methanol is more in the 20% region. Check http://www.refuelnet.de/content/refuelnet/pdf/SOMFB_99.pdf Very happy to learn of your work. I am personally involved in gasification of woody biomass for heat and power applications. Gasification conversion efficiency in the cold gas is ~80 - 85%. We have done some work in India on conversion of diesel to gas engines ( 5,000 hours on generators) with overall electrical conversion efficiency on smaller gas engines of 22-25% on HHV of biomass. Withal the delivered cost of energy per kWh is ~ US c 3.7 viz. less than half of what industry is charged by the utilities (~ US c 10/kWh). Was your work on up, down or crossdraft ? Did you use it for power generation or for thermal energy only ? What was the process followed for conversion of syngas to methanol ? What were the stage wise yields of methanol and the energy balance ? At today's natural gas prices, it is cheaper to produce methanol via gas synthesis than produce it via fermentation. Hang on though, prices might be changing soon. The real energy loser in the fermentation process (after production costs) is concentrating the methanol from a dilute water solution to a fuel quality liquid. It would be interesting to compare the costs in the tropics. The energy cost comparison heavily tilts the balance to biomass. For instance, the landed cost of wet (~30%) as cut wood in most urban centres in India is about US c 2.3/kg. The delivered cost of usable energy via gasification is ~ US $ 3.5/GJ @ 80% gasification efficiency. 'Natural gas' retails at US $ 9.2/GJ. DEAR BALAJI, Your message was very useful informative, I would like to like to know if METHANOL can be produced using the SHELLS of pongamia pods since only 50% by weight is kernel the other half is shell, if the shells are utlised to produce METHANOL then it will be a great idea to make biodiesel in India pls. do give the full details if this is possible REGARDS'' Shashi Kumar mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Lodon taxi conversion
Hi folks I'm new to this game and have just bought an old London taxi. It's a Fairway with the 2.7 litre Nissan engine. Has anyone converted one of these to run on SVO (twin tank)? If so, did you use a kit and which one? Is there anyone in Southeast England who would do it for me for a reasonable fee? Thanks Mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a question 4 the ones in europe
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Doug Foskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 05:39 pm, Jerome Mathevet wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] So, does that apply to Tourists also??? (says he that is going to France, will be driving a Peugeot 307 diesel) Could you be more specific ? Are you taking about the tax or the blend ? The tax is directly included in the price you pay at the pump, so being a tourist is pretty much irrelevant. You can run but you cannot hide ... -- Jrme Mathevet Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] SVO filtering
This question is probably a repeat, however, I haven't found the answer. If I'm driving on straight veggie oil and I run low . can I simply stop at a market and buy new oil and dump it into the tank or should new be pre-filtered to 5 microns too? Thanks Jon Burlington, Vermont A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] making a conical drum
a colleague at work was discarding a few used 45 gal steel drums. Some had a swollen bottom, perfect for draining glycerin biodiesel. It turns out that those ones were full of water. Over winter, they froze and the ice swelled distorted the drums at their weakest point. There you go! So Canadians can effortlessly make conical drums. Pierre Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PLEASE READ - MODERATOR'S MESSAGE
I wondered what happened.I opened my e mail and had over four hundred in two days!No problem! Yahoo just increased everyones free storage.So that may be why they were slow to respond.They always assume that your the one thats confused,not them! Rico Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear all My apologies for this ghastly flood of old messages we've all been subjected to in the last 24 hours. This was a attack on the list by a hacker, highly malicious and extremely childish. I hope to be able to tell you more about it soon. For now, the culprit has, I think, been dealt with and hopefully it should be over. There were 800 false messages sent altogether in 24 hours. I managed to stop 500 of them, but there was nothing I could do about the rest, I'm very sorry to say. They were all previous messages from bona-fide list members sent again with the current date. Yahoo, as expected, proved worse than useless when it came to any assistance - their own website and its controls had been compromised, but they just weren't interested. Unfortunately, some genuine messages got caught up in the flood of false messages. I managed to save some of them, which I'm now forwarding to the list. Others may have been lost. If your message does not show up, please send it again. My apologies for this too. I suppose there'll be some residual confusion for a day or so, but I do hope we can all now get on with business-as-usual free of interference from people I can only describe as psychopaths. Meanwhile I've had to set the whole list to Moderated to stem this flood of garbage. This is just an emergency measure and I'll reset it to Unmoderated as soon as it seems safe to do so. In the meantime there'll be some delay while new messages wait to be cleared, sorry for the inconvenience. What has surprised me is that more list members haven't unsubscribed, faced with this onslaught. Few if any seem to have done so. Thankyou so much for your patience and tolerance. A nice demonstration of just what a tiny minority among sane and decent people the sociopathic element is, even on the Internet. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Request for listers
I may have to change boards.I actually agree with you. Rico Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how do i choose digest mode? First, you take a powder to recover from your sick[ness] over what you self-centeredly declare to be useless biodiesel info. Second, go to Yahoo Groups, then My Groups and then edit preferences for Digest Mode. Third, wipe your nose and wake up to the reality that the world and its needs are much bigger than the isolated veg-oil bubble that you would like to live in. Chances are that you're going to fall back on a lot of that useless information at some point in time. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Request for listers with ya there pal.. am sick of a lot of useless e mail regarding bio diesel, how do i choose digest mode? thanks chris mid england new to vegi oil using [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] No nukes is good nukes
Hi John, Sorry, don't agree with your suggestion that nuclear energy is somehow less polluting than fossil fuel sources. The exact opposite is true. As James Bellini said (in his excellent book High Tech Holocaust, published '86) the nuclear process creates an open-ended problem that has no parallel in the history of technology. A single 1,000 megawatt nuclear plant, typical of most in the US, will within a single year generate the following: 179,000 tonnes of uranium ore as tailings at the mine 242 tonnes of refinery waste 29 tonnes of high-level waste in the form of spent fuel rods. One tonne of mixed isotopes, producing one-fifth of a tonne of plutonium waste. ALL OF THIS IS RADIOACTIVE. Some of it for a matter of days, some for years, some for millenia. There are three phases of production of nuclear energy i.e. fissioning, activation and ionisation. The fissioning process alone creates more than 300 different radioactive chemicals some of which remain unstable for hundreds of thousands of years. One, Iodine 129, has a half life of 17 million years. Much of this is contained in the spent fuel rods. The activation process on the other hand contaminates the surrounding areas of the plant - air, water, pipes and even the structure of the building itself, which has a safe operating span of around 25 years. After that the installation becomes unstable and must be dismantled. All of this, ore tailings, refinery waste, fuel rods and eventually the plant itself must be disposed of. CURRENTLY THERE IS NO SAFE MEANS OF DISPOSAL. So we mothball the plants and store the waste in nuclear depositories around the US (about 20 of them so far). The mine tailings are left to erode to air and waterways, the rest of the residue is encased in concrete, steel or glass and dumped in the sea, left down old mine shafts or stored in purpose-built shelters. No container yet designed is fool-proof. All show signs of deterioration. What will they be like in ten years, fifty years, a century? Don't ask, we know the answer and it isn't reassuring. The cost alone is horrendous. Assuming only a nominal dollar a day for each site, the cost for a century or so will bankrupt our offspring, let alone the idea of guarding some facility for the 17 million years it takes for the Iodine isotope to decay. Multiply all that by 95, the number of nuclear plants in the US. Add in another three hundred or so worldwide and you can see we have an ongoing and steadily accreting annual problem that makes fossil fuels seems almost benign. Enjoy your day, Bob. - Original Message - From: John Woolsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] New to the group Think about it. Electric cars have the same problem as hydrogen cars. There is no free supply of electricity. The only way to produce relatively polution free vehicles would be to have all electrical power produced by nuclear energy. Right now any increase in electrical energy consumption is generally produced by coal. Net CO2 output from coal after inefficiency of batteries and the like are taken into account is far higher than gas vehicles. As my air modeling friend told me. Electric vehicles are just a moving the smoke plume issue. - bfn - JAW Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] outdoor cooking to save on indoor cooling costs, and for other reasons
Hi Keith/Kim/Hakan, Thanks for your quick comeback on solar cookers, and the plethora of information on the JTF website. Was intrigued to find foxhole radios there. I downloaded the info and will spend some pleasurable hours in the workshop knocking up a solar cooker and a radio. Hmm, think I might just combine those two (music while you cook). Thanks again, Bob.. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] outdoor cooking to save on indoor cooling costs, and for other reasons Hi Kim, A solar cooker website? Yes, please. Bob. http://journeytoforever.org/sc.html Solar box cookers http://journeytoforever.org/sc_link.html Solar Cooker Resources on the Web Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Re: [biofuel] Washing 1 liter batches
This email response seems to have gotton lost in the wash ;-) so I figured I send it again. Steve Todd, Thanks for the thoughts. I had totally ignored the left over moisture from the washing on the next reaction batch. A follow up thought: If the reaction is complete (say with an acid/base process) would not pump mixing be just or more effective than mist or bubble washing? Even though the motor would take more power, wouldn't the wash occur more rapidly leaving the energy balance a wash? Steve --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve, There are a number of good reasons to not use a reactor as a wash vessel. 1) Water contamination during reaction stages. 2) Expended time evacuating a reactor of all water prior to reaction stages. 3) Undersized vessel for water washes. (110 gallon reactor yields ~91 gallons fuel, leaving only enough room for 19 gallons of water, erego the introduction of flush washing, aka mist washing) 4) Mist washing in such a set-up generally doesn't include separation/settling of micro-droplets of fuel from the wash water, leaving some fuel to be discarded with the wash. Could probably come up with another half-dozen associated/downstream problems. But those are the predominant ones. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 11:33 PM Subject: Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Washing 1 liter batches From steven mesibov: FROM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DATE: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:19:32 -0700 (PDT) SUBJECT: Re: [biofuel] Washing 1 liter batches Keith, Todd, et. al., I have read so much on the need for washing and the different methods and on the fact that violent washing is okay if you process correctly that it just occurred to me: Why not use the reaction vessel for washing as well as the initial mixing? Would pump washing (especially if you used something like Lyle's at Piedmont Static In-Line Mixer by KoFlo) be acceptable? It would certainly save on having another large container for small operations. Steve --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Brian Hello. I am just starting in the production of my own biodiesel. I have made several 1 liter test batches, Good for you! but I'm not sure how to wash them. I can't find anything online particular to small batches, but I have found sources that say bubblewashing will be too violent and cause emulsification. People who say bubblewashing's too violent and set off on a quest for ever-gentler washing methods (eg mist washing) have taken a wrong turn before they start. Gentle washing techniques only mask the real problem, which is that the stuff isn't processed properly in the first place, they need to improve their processing. Emulsification doesn't normally happen with well-processed fuel. It's caused by either (or probably both) too much soap and poor conversion, leaving diglycerides and monoglycerides, which are emulsifiers. If your fuel's properly made you won't be able to emulsify it no matter how violently you agitate it. That is what you should be aiming for. See Emulsification and Emulsion Explained here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash2.html#emuls So, some suggestions. First, take about 150ml of your finished, unwashed fuel and do this with it: Quality testing http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality Let us know what happens. Second, you can bubblewash it, in a 2-litre PET bottle. From Todd: You can use the pop-up cap found on water bottles at your grocer as the valve for drainage. This turns any PET bottle into a separative funnel. It takes a little practice to get the valve to trickle properly, but it does work superbly. More details on how that works here: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/13265/ You know those pop-up caps? Maybe made for cyclists or something. We've used something a little different (I think), a screw-on pop-up cap with a straw through the middle that goes right down to the bottom of the bottle, with an air-inlet gap around the straw, and the cap closing both the straw and the air-inlet. Do your bubblewash, remove the air-stone and air-pipe from the pump, screw on the pop-up cap, turn the bottle upside down and allow to settle. To drain off the settled water, hold the bottle (still upside down) over the sink or something, lift the cap; the water comes out the air-inlet gap, air goes up the straw to the top (bottom) of the bottle, and draining is smooth without any glug-glugging that'll splash and prevent a clean separation. If you can't find something like this you could easily rig it with some thin
[biofuel] Re: Electric Biodiesel Hybrid (was New to the group)
FWIW, Fedex is now running a fleet of diesel-electric hybrids in I can't remember which vehicle, possibly the sprinter van. The city of Detroit has been running a version of their 5.9L Cummins engine as a diesel-electric hybrid for years in city busses which only increases average MPG from 5 to 8 (but still a significant increases). Several years ago there was a competition held by General Motors in which engineering students from 20 different schools were invited, given a Suburban and a $100K budget and Georgia Tech won with a 4.2L diesel-electric hybrid. Most attempted fuel cells but weren't able to complete the technology with available technology and budget. Georgia Tech's won in all categories, towing, economy, emissions, and general driving (all of this IIRC) etc... So they have been around for some time. Diesels seem to be finally making a showing in the states (again?) but I think a diesel-electric hybrid in a passenger vehicle would be too risky at this point unfortunately or at least in the eyes of the manufacturer... :( Andre Utah Biodiesel Cooperative www.utahbiodiesel.org Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Anybody there?
Im not getting any biofuel messages either. ABW Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just waitin for 300 messages to show up -- but they haven't yet. I actually had a virus attack over the weekend -- watched my emails disappear upwards before my very eyes, just like a spy film (y'know, Clear Present Danger, where one guys tryin to delete faster than the other guy can save off -- SPOOKY, and that's on a MAC!) Anyway, are we back to normal yet? Will we ever be normal AGAIN?:-) -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Anybody there?
I am gett'in the list email . James On Tue, 22 Jun 2004, Ken Provost wrote: I'm just waitin for 300 messages to show up -- but they haven't yet. I actually had a virus attack over the weekend -- watched my emails disappear upwards before my very eyes, just like a spy film (y'know, Clear Present Danger, where one guys tryin to delete faster than the other guy can save off -- SPOOKY, and that's on a MAC!) Anyway, are we back to normal yet? Will we ever be normal AGAIN?:-) -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=637714214] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: One new arrival, Howdy
Howdy, all. Ken,I don't think we will ever be back to what we considered to be normal. I read the other day where Bill Gates had offered a few million $,for information leading to the arrest of any virus making sending slime. The article said they had caught an 18year old,in Germany. At the time of arrest,he was on line, had several virus programs on his,(now confiscated)computer at the time of arrest. The virus writing jerks don't have enough to do,now they are sending virus for MAC? They need to be on a rock pile with a ball chain sledge hammer to keep them busy. I have had a thought,about,who stands to make money from virus's that go around. The only ones that make money,in my opinion are the ones that sell Anti-virus soft ware. I use AVG,it is free, better than anything I have had to pay for. The download site has a place for donations, also one for sale. I donated,thru PayPal. Have a good one. JW --- Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just waitin for 300 messages to show up -- but they haven't yet. I actually had a virus attack over the weekend -- watched my emails disappear upwards before my very eyes, just like a spy film (y'know, Clear Present Danger, where one guys tryin to delete faster than the other guy can save off -- SPOOKY, and that's on a MAC!) Anyway, are we back to normal yet? Will we ever be normal AGAIN?:-) -K __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Shell Shocks Industry
Published on Thursday, June 17, 2004 by the Guardian/UK Oil Chief: My Fears for Planet Shell Boss's 'Confession' Shocks Industry by David Adam http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0617-01.htm The head of one of the world's biggest oil companies has admitted that the threat of climate change makes him really very worried for the planet. In an interview in today's Guardian Life section, Ron Oxburgh, chairman of Shell, says we urgently need to capture emissions of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide, which scientists think contribute to global warming, and store them underground - a technique called carbon sequestration. Sequestration is difficult, but if we don't have sequestration then I see very little hope for the world, said Lord Oxburgh. No one can be comfortable at the prospect of continuing to pump out the amounts of carbon dioxide that we are pumping out at present ... with consequences that we really can't predict but are probably not good. His comments will enrage many in the oil industry, which is targeted by climate change campaigners because the use of its products spews out huge quantities of carbon dioxide, most visibly from vehicle exhausts. His words follow those of the government's chief science adviser, David King, who said in January that climate change posed a bigger threat to the world than terrorism. You can't slip a piece of paper between David King and me on this position, said Lord Oxburgh, a respected geologist who replaced the disgraced Philip Watts as chairman of the British arm of the oil giant in March. Companies including Shell and BP have previously acknowledged the problem of climate change and pledged to reduce their own emissions, but the issue remains sensitive, and carefully worded public statements often emphasize uncertainties over risks. Robin Oakley, a climate campaigner with Greenpeace, said: This is an important statement to make but it does have to come with a commitment to follow through, and that means making the case to his peers in the oil industry who are still skeptical of climate change. Mr Oakley said a gulf was opening between more progressive oil companies such as Shell, which invests in alternative energy sources including wind and solar power, and ExxonMobil, the biggest and most influential producer, particularly in the US. In June 2002 ExxonMobil's chairman, Lee Raymond, said: We in ExxonMobil do not believe that the science required to establish this linkage between fossil fuels and warming has been demonstrated. Lord Oxburgh's words will also fuel arguments over sequestration. Supporters say it will allow a smoother transition to reduced emissions by allowing us to burn coal, oil and gas for longer. Critics argue that the idea is an expensive and probably unworkable smokescreen for continued reliance on fossil fuels. Last year the Guardian revealed that ministers were considering plans for a national network of pipelines to carry millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide from power stations to be buried under the North sea. You probably have to put it under the sea but there are other possibilities. You may be able to trap it in solids or something like that, said Lord Oxburgh, who claimed even vehicle emissions could be trapped and disposed of. The timescale might be impossible, in which case I'm really very worried for the planet because I don't see any other approach. According to a 3,000m (about 10,000ft) ice core from Antarctica revealing the Earth's climate history, carbon dioxide levels are the highest for at least 440,000 years. Lord Oxburgh said the situation is particularly urgent because many developing countries, including India and China, are sitting on huge untapped stocks of coal, probably the most polluting fossil fuel. If they choose to burn their coal, we in the west are not in a very good position to tell them not to, because it's exactly what we did in our industrial revolution. Bryony Worthington, a climate campaigner with Friends of the Earth, said: It isn't a responsible attitude to say we're going to pledge to do sequestration but if the plans don't work out then the world's messed up. He's done quite a clever job by making it clear he's concerned but at the same time not pledging to do anything about it. She called for tougher emission standards for new vehicles, as well as greater investment in energy efficiency measures and renewable sources. A former non-executive director with Shell, Lord Oxburgh was catapulted into the chairman's role after the company was forced to reveal it had overstated the extent of its reserves. He was widely viewed as a safe pair of hands. He followed his long-standing academic career with spells as chief science adviser to the Ministry of Defense and rector of Imperial College, London. A crossbench life peer, he still chairs the Lords science and
[biofuel] BIOX strikes again
BIOX hit the papers again. My grandparents in Hamilton sent me two articles that were run the same day (June 11) in the Hamilton spectator, talking about a $5 million dollar grant being put up by Sustainable Development Technology Canada. The picture on the article is of Federal Finance Minister Ralph Goodale holding up a biox hard hat with the CEO. Here's another article with essentially the same info: http://www.todaystrucking.com/displayarticle.cfm?ID=3223 This does come in the middle of an election. -Joey Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Anybody there?
Well Ken, I'm here and very new to the whole thing. However, I have to do something. I have a 450 SEL with a BIG V8 and plan to buy a Ford F350 with a diesle in it to use biofuel that I plan to make. So any advise would be very helpful! Thanks, Jonathan Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just waitin for 300 messages to show up -- but they haven't yet. I actually had a virus attack over the weekend -- watched my emails disappear upwards before my very eyes, just like a spy film (y'know, Clear Present Danger, where one guys tryin to delete faster than the other guy can save off -- SPOOKY, and that's on a MAC!) Anyway, are we back to normal yet? Will we ever be normal AGAIN?:-) -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. J.J.A.M., Inc. Jonathan Lynden Dunlap IS Network Systems Analyst Your PC Linux Specialist P.O. Box 4209 Inglewood, California 90309-4209 323-779-2752/Home - Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Anybody there?
Anyway, are we back to normal yet? Will we ever be normal AGAIN?:-) -K More importantly, were we ever normal to begin with? -BRAH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Any1 help to find methanol in GA, metro Atlanta
Please any 1!!! I need to do my first test baches but the problem I had is to find methanol in small quantities. Like 1 gallon or so. I have my Red devil LYE , I have cooking oil (virgin) but no methanol!! I willing to pay if someone can send me by mail. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Anybody there?
No, Ken. Nobody here except the four of us. I guess this must be the end of the world as we knew it, eh? Best Stuart --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just waitin for 300 messages to show up -- but they haven't yet. I actually had a virus attack over the weekend -- watched my emails disappear upwards before my very eyes, just like a spy film (y'know, Clear Present Danger, where one guys tryin to delete faster than the other guy can save off -- SPOOKY, and that's on a MAC!) Anyway, are we back to normal yet? Will we ever be normal AGAIN?:-) -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] mount diesel engine in gasoline car
Hey all, New around here, but have been doing plenty of reading. One thing I haven't been able to find out about is how to mount a diesel engine into a gas car. Specifically I love the 88-91 honda crx, and would like to buy just a chasis of that car, and drop in a small diesel engine. So I'd like to know what my options are: What's a suitably small engine? Also along the lines of making a hybrid, is there a small quiet diesel generator that would fit in the engine compartment? Great info on the site! Thanks in advance, Jerry Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Are we back to normal yet?
After the deluge of old mails, my inbox has been near empty the last 2 days since I got back. Are things back to normal or have we all taken a vow of silence? Btw Keith, hope the move was smooth, looks a nice tranquil place you have there, lucky guy! Malcolm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biodiesel source along I-15, or northward
My source of biodiesel in Utah failed. I need to get 10 gallons for my trip to Alaska, I am taking I-15 north to Canada and beyond. Ernie Rogers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] 100% ethanol
Hi all, A question for those on the list who have better chemistry backgrounds than me. When distilling ethanol, you can't get 100% ethanol, you always end up with water present. Is is possible to send this combined liquid through a centrifuge and remove this approximately 10% of water? In this situation by centrifuge, I mean things along the lines of what CINC, Alfa-Laval etc produce, spin at 1000's of RPMs and get 1000G. Would this be possible or is the internal bonding between the ethanol and water too strong? Any thoughts greatly appreciated, Andrew Lowe Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Iraq, fight, eat, shit and move, a number game.
Before the invasion of Iraq, I pointed out in different ways and times the following, Iraq consist of 80% women and children under 16 years old. This as a result of the Iraq and Iran war, supported by US. The first Gulf war and the blockade of food and medical supply. It is true that there are nearly no family or circle of friends who did not have a member killed in the Iran war or by the oppressive regime. It is also true that the same can be said about the Americans and their policies. I claimed that US would not be hailed as a liberator and that the winning of hearts and minds was a very naive proposition. Today we can see this and the Americans have killed a larger number of Fathers, Brothers, Friends and even some collateral damages on the female side of the population. The started with a childish proudness of the terror tactics shock and awe and continued with trigger happiness. It is non who claims any large successes in winning hearts and minds, instead we have seen some extremely stupid events in the prison system. Now I only like to point out some severe logical failures in the reporting and propaganda from Iraq. A US combat soldier on the ground in Iraq, is depending of 5 to 10 other military support personal to fight, eat, shit and move. This means that of the US force of around 130,000, it is only around 30,000 that really comes in contact with Iraqi people and combat situations. That is one thousands of a percent, compared with the Iraqi population. It is almost impossible to maintain any kind security and to live up to their obligations according to the Geneva convention, as an occupying force. This is also why the current hand over of sovereignty is rushed through, as if US after that would no longer have any legal responsibilities and a moral victory. According to the coalition the resistance in Iraq, are foreign terrorists, local terrorists, insurgents and plain criminals. If we look at the numbers, the US heroes are killing them with their technical superiority (night scopes etc.) in relations higher than 1 American to 15 insurgents. Most combats are therefor night combats, where US search and kill insurgents. It is also a very high number of innocent collateral damage (bystanders). The propaganda want us to belive that these insurgents pops up during night, like targets on a shooting range and they come almost from nowhere and seems to exists in unlimited numbers. The fact is that those insurgents also fight, eat, shit and move. They must have support of 5 to 10 members of the population to do so. Making some numbers out of it, there must be insurgents and supporters in the range of 1,500,000 people, or a very large part of the Iraqi able population, that probably are around 5,000,000 men. I might be off both up and down, but not totally wrong in the principle. The question is how US will win this, without putting maybe 10 times more troops on the ground and with much ruthless behavior. Selected sovereign government, have little chance to survive without massive US support and if the Iraqis do not get the opportunity to really free elections, it will continue to go on. Really free elections will probably lead to a Iran style Muslim scenario and that is not acceptable for the US, because this means that Bin Laden won. There are also large risks for collapse and civil war and a large scale escalation in the region. The situation is very dangerous and in no way out of the woods yet. It does not look good for US energy supplies and price levels, because it could be severe impacts on the US economy. My survival kit advice in this situation is, sell your SUV when you can and get a small energy efficient diesel car, prepared for biodiesel. Hakan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] I am a new user, environmentally concerned
Subject: I am a new user, environmentally concerned This is a great opportunity to stay in touch with people with similar concern. I have been following up biofuel related things for quite some time. Thank you all of you are committed to keep our earth a better place to live. ST visit http://accountsteacher.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Is it all Methanol?...Would I damage my car?
Hello everybody.. Can anyboby tell me..When I boil the Biodiesel and the glycerin to recover some methanol thru the condenser,what do I get?It is supoosed to be methanol but How can I be sure.Water and methanol mix?Is it Methanol or It has any water in it?How can you tell the diference?Can I use it for the next bach without a worry that can be water in it? I have mixed 3 gallons of gasoline and 1 liter of biodiesel in my gasoline car and I've been getting a better mileage and it runs excellent.I wanna go for 2 liters now and to see what happens.Would I damage my car by doing so?have any body tried this before?since the gallon of gasoline in Honduras cost 3 dollars I'm desperate to cut down my expenses and the gallon of biodiesel cost me to make it just 1.50. jorge - Original Message - From: Brian To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 8:48 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Anybody there? Hey Ken. I'm still here, but it doesn't seem that anyone else is. I had gotten so used to the conversation here in such a short time. I miss it already. Hope it comes back soon. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just waitin for 300 messages to show up -- but they haven't yet. I actually had a virus attack over the weekend -- watched my emails disappear upwards before my very eyes, just like a spy film (y'know, Clear Present Danger, where one guys tryin to delete faster than the other guy can save off -- SPOOKY, and that's on a MAC!) Anyway, are we back to normal yet? Will we ever be normal AGAIN?:-) -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 100% ethanol
Andrew Centrifuges wont work. You need to use a molecular sieve. Mark ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Supercritical Reactor - has anyone ever seen one?
Ken Do you know of anyone in the whole realm of this group who has ever used a supercritical reactor? As in anywhere? Mark ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 100% ethanol
Hi Andrew, Post to you direct as well the list is in a little strife at the moment I have experience with fuel and oil centrifuges from my navy time, the centrifuge probably wont separate the water from ethanol as it will be bonded to the ethanol, I would use a substance called zeolite 3A grade, if you put that into a goggle or whatever search engine you should find an explanation . This will absorb the water, up to 20% by weight I believe. Off topic for this thread but A centrifuge I believe would be an excellent way to separate the FFA Glycerine mix from the biodiesel without waiting for it to settle, if this gets through the hassles that Keith has had with the list I will post on a separate topic some further thoughts on this Regards Nick - Original Message - From: Andrew Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: [biofuel] 100% ethanol Hi all, A question for those on the list who have better chemistry backgrounds than me. When distilling ethanol, you can't get 100% ethanol, you always end up with water present. Is is possible to send this combined liquid through a centrifuge and remove this approximately 10% of water? In this situation by centrifuge, I mean things along the lines of what CINC, Alfa-Laval etc produce, spin at 1000's of RPMs and get 1000G. Would this be possible or is the internal bonding between the ethanol and water too strong? Any thoughts greatly appreciated, Andrew Lowe Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Raschig rings
Try copper or stainless kitchen scrubbers, available at most hardware / household stores. Ordinary steel wool might cause problems. Good luck Malcolm -Original Message- From: benjinsl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 June 2004 15:46 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Raschig rings Greetings all, I'm planning to build a small ethanol still (http://www.moonshine- still.com/still.pdf). Anyone know of a reputable source of raschig rings, or have any other recommendations for still packing material? (steel wool?) Ben Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129hcdumd/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/ D=groups/S=1705083269:HM/EXP=1088153424/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*htt p:/companion.yahoo.com click here http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=group s/S=:HM/A=2128215/rand=480432447 _ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: 100% ethanol
Hi Andrew, Post to you direct as well the list is in a little strife at the moment I have experience with fuel and oil centrifuges from my navy time, the centrifuge probably wont separate the water from ethanol as it will be bonded to the ethanol, I would use a substance called zeolite 3A grade, if you put that into a goggle or whatever search engine you should find an explanation . This will absorb the water, up to 20% by weight I believe. PS anyone know a source for zeolite in australia. Off topic for this thread but A centrifuge I believe would be an excellent way to separate the FFA Glycerine mix from the biodiesel without waiting for it to settle, if this gets through the hassles that Keith has had with the list I will post on a separate topic some further thoughts on this Regards Nick --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A question for those on the list who have better chemistry backgrounds than me. When distilling ethanol, you can't get 100% ethanol, you always end up with water present. Is is possible to send this combined liquid through a centrifuge and remove this approximately 10% of water? In this situation by centrifuge, I mean things along the lines of what CINC, Alfa-Laval etc produce, spin at 1000's of RPMs and get 1000G. Would this be possible or is the internal bonding between the ethanol and water too strong? Any thoughts greatly appreciated, Andrew Lowe Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Iraq, fight, eat, shit and move, a number game.
Got this off line response, when I answered it came back with mailbox not found. Obviously it is an other of those persons need to hide behind false personalities. Since it is someone who read the list, here is my answer on line. Hakan --- Rob, Can you tell me why anyone should care about if you learn about biofuels or not. You obviously are searching for free information and regard it as your divine right to get it, without any commitment, monetary or otherwise, from your side. You might also be one of those who think that the efforts that goes into http://journeytoforever.org/ or my own at http://energysavingnow.com/ , are done for the pleasure to inform you personally. Speaking for myself, if you are not willing to participate in changing attitudes and habits as a concerned citizen of the world, I could not care less in what you are doing. That you personally will be able to learn and pick up information, is a natural waste and compensated by the many who cares and who would go to http://journeytoforever.org/ and at least give something back in a participation. Hakan At 09:48 24/06/2004, you wrote: wow, the last and only word of your email related to biofuel was biodiesel. i just joined this list. i have strong political feelings. but that is not why i joined this list. i joined it for information on biodiesel. is this political diatribe a regular part of this list? if so, i shall unsubscribe. i may agree with you completely, but i don't want preaching on subjects i already know. isn't there a more appropriate forum for these opinions? rob snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Iraq, fight, eat, shit and move, a number game.
Hear hear! I agree 100%, I remember your earlier post and thought about how the mASS media completely overlooked this point- that 10 years ago we were killing these people, and why would they have a sudden change of heart? No, we would be looked upon as some kind of usurper, with their oil fields on our minds, and they saw through the kindness with bullets BS. I own a VW Diesel and run a 20% mix of store-bought biodiesel, and I am looking into buying some home made from some local folks, with the intent of making my own someday. There are also kits to convert to using straight vegetable oil, with many reporting thousands of miles of trouble free use. Its the new wave of grass roots renewable energy sources, because our government cant make up its mind to provide us with any without deciding how to make the most money from it (HYDROCELL). Here is a great link to some free thinking people http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 12:59 AM Subject: [biofuel] Iraq, fight, eat, shit and move, a number game. Before the invasion of Iraq, I pointed out in different ways and times the following, Iraq consist of 80% women and children under 16 years old. This as a result of the Iraq and Iran war, supported by US. The first Gulf war and the blockade of food and medical supply. It is true that there are nearly no family or circle of friends who did not have a member killed in the Iran war or by the oppressive regime. It is also true that the same can be said about the Americans and their policies. I claimed that US would not be hailed as a liberator and that the winning of hearts and minds was a very naive proposition. Today we can see this and the Americans have killed a larger number of Fathers, Brothers, Friends and even some collateral damages on the female side of the population. The started with a childish proudness of the terror tactics shock and awe and continued with trigger happiness. It is non who claims any large successes in winning hearts and minds, instead we have seen some extremely stupid events in the prison system. Now I only like to point out some severe logical failures in the reporting and propaganda from Iraq. A US combat soldier on the ground in Iraq, is depending of 5 to 10 other military support personal to fight, eat, shit and move. This means that of the US force of around 130,000, it is only around 30,000 that really comes in contact with Iraqi people and combat situations. That is one thousands of a percent, compared with the Iraqi population. It is almost impossible to maintain any kind security and to live up to their obligations according to the Geneva convention, as an occupying force. This is also why the current hand over of sovereignty is rushed through, as if US after that would no longer have any legal responsibilities and a moral victory. According to the coalition the resistance in Iraq, are foreign terrorists, local terrorists, insurgents and plain criminals. If we look at the numbers, the US heroes are killing them with their technical superiority (night scopes etc.) in relations higher than 1 American to 15 insurgents. Most combats are therefor night combats, where US search and kill insurgents. It is also a very high number of innocent collateral damage (bystanders). The propaganda want us to belive that these insurgents pops up during night, like targets on a shooting range and they come almost from nowhere and seems to exists in unlimited numbers. The fact is that those insurgents also fight, eat, shit and move. They must have support of 5 to 10 members of the population to do so. Making some numbers out of it, there must be insurgents and supporters in the range of 1,500,000 people, or a very large part of the Iraqi able population, that probably are around 5,000,000 men. I might be off both up and down, but not totally wrong in the principle. The question is how US will win this, without putting maybe 10 times more troops on the ground and with much ruthless behavior. Selected sovereign government, have little chance to survive without massive US support and if the Iraqis do not get the opportunity to really free elections, it will continue to go on. Really free elections will probably lead to a Iran style Muslim scenario and that is not acceptable for the US, because this means that Bin Laden won. There are also large risks for collapse and civil war and a large scale escalation in the region. The situation is very dangerous and in no way out of the woods yet. It does not look good for US energy supplies and price levels, because it could be severe impacts on the US economy. My survival kit advice in this situation is, sell your SUV when you can and get a small energy efficient diesel car, prepared for biodiesel. Hakan Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
RE: [biofuel] Raschig rings
Virtually any compatible material can be used as column packing. Broken up ceramic coffee mugs, glass, marbles, short sections of small diameter pipe (this is very similar to raschig rings), pieces of metal, like I said damn near anything. Raschig rings are simply optimal packing as they are shaped and sized to create the largest possible surface area within the column/condenser. For distilling ethanol at home you hardly need industrial/laboratory grade materials such as real raschig rings. --adam -Original Message- From: benjinsl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 8:04 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Raschig rings Greetings all, I am planning to build a small ethanol still, http://www.moonshine-still.com/still.pdf, and would like to know if anyone can recommend a reputable source of raschig rings, or have any ideas of substitutes? (steel wool?) Ben Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] EPA's bad data?
I just ran across an EPA run website where you can look up the EPA rated mileage and Air Pollution Score (pounds of smog forming pollution per 15k miles). For some reason every recent VW TDI scored markedly worse then their gas counterparts. In some cases the diesels are shown to produce twice as much smog. Can anyone comment on this? I have always been told that diesels are generally cleaner. The site in question can be found at http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm --adam Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 100% ethanol
the best and most efficent way is to run the alcohol through a molecular sieve 3a On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:14:01 +1000, Andrew Lowe wrote: *Hi all, * A question for those on the list who have better chemistry backgrounds *than me. When distilling ethanol, you can't get 100% ethanol, you always *end up with water present. Is is possible to send this combined liquid *through a centrifuge and remove this approximately 10% of water? In this *situation by centrifuge, I mean things along the lines of what CINC, *Alfa-Laval etc produce, spin at 1000's of RPMs and get 1000G. Would this *be possible or is the internal bonding between the ethanol and water too *strong? * * Any thoughts greatly appreciated, * Andrew Lowe * * * *Biofuel at Journey to Forever: *http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html * *Biofuels list archives: *http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ * *Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. *To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Yahoo! Groups Links * * * * * [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: PLEASE READ - MODERATOR'S MESSAGE
Anyway, are we back to normal yet? Will we ever be normal AGAIN?:-) -K As Brah asked, were we ever normal in the first place? LOL! Well, anyway... The attack on the list did not end with the Denial of Service flood of old emails, it went on, we got nuked and left for dead. A lot of damage was done, but no, we're not dead. There are some changes, but I think everything should be working normally again now, or at least what passes for normal at Yahoo. Please excuse the hiatus - it might have been one for you, but not for me. :-( I'm freeing up the queue of pending messages that's been collecting in the meanwhile, should all be through soon, but I don't want to send them all in a sudden flood, for obvious reasons. Yahoo just increased everyones free storage.So that may be why they were slow to respond.They always assume that your the one thats confused,not them! Rico Yahoo was and is useless or worse. Their response (to the wrong problem) said this: If you believe your Yahoo! Group has been accessed without your or your co-founder's authorization, please give us a detailed account of the actions that led up this problem. I replied showing them just how that was the case, and didn't hear a word further. So anyway, who did it? Not some 18-year-old college kid who needs a ball-and-chain, a pick-axe and a bunch of rocks, LOL! Far from it (though the ball-and-chain etc might be appropriate anyway). You can guess, it's not hard to figure it out. What remains to be seen is whether there'll be another attack when these low-lifes see some action on the list and realise it's not nosediving to its destruction as intended - which definitely was what they intended. Everything that's been achieved here, all the effort and time put into it by thousands of people over the years, it all counts for nothing next to the petty concerns of these folks. I guess we'll soon see. Meanwhile, thanks so much to all who offered their help and support. There's a great bunch of people here, really. Best wishes Keith Addison List owner Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 13:32:50 +0900 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: PLEASE READ - MODERATOR'S MESSAGE Dear all My apologies for this ghastly flood of old messages we've all been subjected to in the last 24 hours. This was an attack on the list by a hacker, highly malicious and extremely childish. I hope to be able to tell you more about it soon. For now, the culprit has, I think, been dealt with and hopefully it should be over. There were 800 false messages sent altogether in 24 hours. I managed to stop 500 of them, but there was nothing I could do about the rest, I'm very sorry to say. They were all previous messages from bona-fide list members sent again with the current date. Yahoo, as expected, proved worse than useless when it came to any assistance - their own website and its controls had been compromised, but they just weren't interested. Unfortunately, some genuine messages got caught up in the flood of false messages. I managed to save some of them, which I'm now forwarding to the list. Others may have been lost. If your message does not show up, please send it again. My apologies for this too. I suppose there'll be some residual confusion for a day or so, but I do hope we can all now get on with business-as-usual free of interference from people I can only describe as psychopaths. Meanwhile I've had to set the whole list to Moderated to stem this flood of garbage. This is just an emergency measure and I'll reset it to Unmoderated as soon as it seems safe to do so. In the meantime there'll be some delay while new messages wait to be cleared, sorry for the inconvenience. What has surprised me is that more list members haven't unsubscribed, faced with this onslaught. Few if any seem to have done so. Thankyou so much for your patience and tolerance. A nice demonstration of just what a tiny minority among sane and decent people the sociopathic element is, even on the Internet. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Iraq, fight, eat, shit and move, a number game.
Hello Hakan I'm sorry you had this bother, thanks for dealing with it. Quite right too. Please send me this person's address offlist. For anyone else who might feel the same as Rob does, please read this: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/35681/ The membership as a whole is solidly behind the position stated. Best wishes Keith Addison List owner Got this off line response, when I answered it came back with mailbox not found. Obviously it is an other of those persons need to hide behind false personalities. Since it is someone who read the list, here is my answer on line. Hakan --- Rob, Can you tell me why anyone should care about if you learn about biofuels or not. You obviously are searching for free information and regard it as your divine right to get it, without any commitment, monetary or otherwise, from your side. You might also be one of those who think that the efforts that goes into http://journeytoforever.org/ or my own at http://energysavingnow.com/ , are done for the pleasure to inform you personally. Speaking for myself, if you are not willing to participate in changing attitudes and habits as a concerned citizen of the world, I could not care less in what you are doing. That you personally will be able to learn and pick up information, is a natural waste and compensated by the many who cares and who would go to http://journeytoforever.org/ and at least give something back in a participation. Hakan At 09:48 24/06/2004, you wrote: wow, the last and only word of your email related to biofuel was biodiesel. i just joined this list. i have strong political feelings. but that is not why i joined this list. i joined it for information on biodiesel. is this political diatribe a regular part of this list? if so, i shall unsubscribe. i may agree with you completely, but i don't want preaching on subjects i already know. isn't there a more appropriate forum for these opinions? rob snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Michigan, USA Biodiesel makers
Hi, Is there any backyard Biodiesel makers in the Michigan area that can help me. I am having a problem that I just can't get figured out. I would like to talk or meet with you to see if you can tell me what I am doing wrong. I have made some fuel and had no problems doing it and all of a sudden I can't get it to work. I think some thing is contaminated or maybe my Lye is old or bad. I don't know. Thanks Rick M Brownstown, Mi. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Theoretical Question
At 11:24 AM 6/20/2004, you wrote: Hello, if you are looking at the worst case scenarios, have a look at the caveman chemistry book, might be interesting for you. http://cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/ Greetings, Many thanks for this website, it is a treasure. Bright Blessings, Kim Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Any1 help to find methanol in GA, metro Atlanta
A while back, someone had said here that HEET gas line antifreeze is actually just pure methanol. That's what I used for my first couple of test batches. They didn't turn out, which I think is a problem with the NaOH that I bought, not the methanol. Of course, I can't be absolutely sure until I try other NaOH. Anyone here know whether it is true that HEET is pure methanol? If so, it makes a great source for small amounts for test batches. Of course, I wouldn't want to buy by the pint for a full batch. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, not yourbuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please any 1!!! I need to do my first test baches but the problem I had is to find methanol in small quantities. Like 1 gallon or so. I have my Red devil LYE , I have cooking oil (virgin) but no methanol!! I willing to pay if someone can send me by mail. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Any1 help to find methanol in GA, metro Atlanta
HEET comes in 2 packages. One red, and one Yellow. Read the labels for the methanol. It is 99% methanol. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Raschig rings
on 6/19/04 7:46 AM, benjinsl at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings all, I'm planning to build a small ethanol still (http://www.moonshine- still.com/still.pdf). Anyone know of a reputable source of raschig rings, or have any other recommendations for still packing material? (steel wool?) Ben copper pot scrubbers work GREAT. -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 100% ethanol
on 6/23/04 9:14 PM, Andrew Lowe at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A question for those on the list who have better chemistry backgrounds than me. When distilling ethanol, you can't get 100% ethanol, you always end up with water present. Is is possible to send this combined liquid through a centrifuge and remove this approximately 10% of water? No. or is the internal bonding between the ethanol and water too strong? Yes. -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Direct oil conversion?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually Glycerol is one of the intermediate steps in the complex enzyme reactions we know (and love) as yeast fermentation Are you sure about that? Glycerol is produced in small amounts via reduction of glyceraldehyde during glycolysis, but constitutes a metabolic dead end, as far as I am aware. It is not in the pathway to ethanol and therefore should not be a substrate for ethanol production. That said, biochemical pathways are not my forte, so if you have a reference I would like to see it. I guess a simple test would be take some glycerol and yeast and see if you get ethanol. Yeast MAKE glycerol(glycerine) from sugar before they make ethanol. So any glycerine can be converted to ethanol by introducing it (hopefully as purified as possible) into an active fermentation. AllanD --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/15/04 7:35 AM, tomasjkn at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems to me, that there should be a direct chemical conversion route from oil to fatty acid methyl esters. (R-COO)-CH2-(R-COO-)CH-CH2-(-COO-R) +3H2 == 3 R-COO-CH3 Unfortunately, the ester linkage will always be much easier to break than the C-C bonds in the glycerol. I don't believe what you're suggesting would be possible. Or, perhaps a less radical idea, but achieving the same economy: Maybe there is a route to convert your waste glycerol into methanol? CH2OH-CHOH-CH2OH + 3H2 == 3 CH3OH This one is much more likely -- there are probly bacteria or yeasts that could break down a simple sugar like glycerol directly to methanol. If not, they could certainly be bioengineered :-)-K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links -- Bob Allen, http://ozarker.org/bob = The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] can anyone help me find assistance on biofuel in India
Can anyone please help me find out assistance on biofuel production in India? - Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Any1 help to find methanol in GA, metro Atlanta
I have methanol, I recently bought 55 gal for making biodiesel. I would consider selling a couple of gal. To ship methanol is very expensive due to it being a hazaedeous material. I'm located in Powder Springs, GA . Note veterans Oil Co. in Austell sell 55 gal drums of methanol not yourbuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Please any 1!!! I need to do my first test baches but the problem I had is to find methanol in small quantities. Like 1 gallon or so. I have my Red devil LYE , I have cooking oil (virgin) but no methanol!! I willing to pay if someone can send me by mail. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Chris Edmonson - Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Theoretical Question
Lye is not a denaturant, the ethanol can still be reclaimed. To denature ethanol, liquids that have similar boiling points condensing points, that even distillation will be hard to remove, have to be used, like methanol, gasoline, and a few other things as well. The denaturant used must not be readily remove from the ethanol, with common tools, You still have to make the ethanol and that requires licensing / bonding even if it is denatured.It used to be that rubbing alcohol was denatured ethanol, but, due to the licensing / bonding cost, it's now more cost effective to make isopropyl alcohol. ( From: Make Your Own Fuel ) For BATF, to consider ethanol to be denatured, you must use one of the approved formulas, such as: Formula #1) To every 100 gal of ethanol add; 5 gal wood alcohol. Formula #3A) To every 100 gal of ethanol; 5 gal methyl alcohol Formula #4) To every 100 gal of ethanol; 1 gal gasoline Formula #18) To every 100 gal of ethanol of not less than 160 proof add; 2.5 gal of methyl isobutyl ketone ( or compound similar thereto ), 0.125 gal of pyronate ( or compound similar thereto ), 0.5 gal of acetaldol, 1 gal kerosene, or gasoline. Formula #19) To every 100 gal. of ethanol of not less than 160 proof add; 4 gal of methyl isobutyl ketone, and 1 gal. of kerosene, deodorized kerosene or gasoline. Have fun, Greg H. - Original Message - From: Marc Orion Cardoso To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 17:37 Subject: [biofuel] Re: Theoretical Question you can get a small distillers permit if you have no criminal record, it allows you to make up to 10,000 gallons of ethanol for fuel for your own use. the fee is $25.00 of course ,this assumes that you are in the Usa. if you arent, do it anyway as long as you denature it immediatly with lye its no longer potable so it becomes a non issue . there is no law against making ethyloxide at least not yet. marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Denaturants (was Theoretical Question)
On Thursday, June 24, 2004, at 09:13 AM, Greg Harbican wrote: For BATF, to consider ethanol to be denatured, you must use one of the approved formulas, such as: Formula #1) To every 100 gal of ethanol add; 5 gal wood alcohol. Formula #3A) To every 100 gal of ethanol; 5 gal methyl alcohol Formula #4) To every 100 gal of ethanol; 1 gal gasoline etc. etc. Pharmco Products has some excellent pdf's on their website, explaining all the various types of denaturing, and the differences between Specially Denatured, Completely Denatured, Special Industrial Solvents, and Proprietary Solvents. For example, #1 and 3A above (the same), are SDA's and are still fairly restricted, whereas #4 is a CDA and not restricted. Check it out: http://www.pharmco-prod.com/pages/sda1.pdf http://www.pharmco-prod.com/pages/cda1.pdf http://www.pharmco-prod.com/pages/sis1.pdf http://www.pharmco-prod.com/pages/prop1.pdf -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Electric Biodiesel Hybrid (was New to the group)
FWIW, Fedex is now running a fleet of diesel-electric hybrids in I can't remember which vehicle, possibly the sprinter van. The city of Detroit has been running a version of their 5.9L Cummins engine as a diesel-electric hybrid for years in city busses which only increases average MPG from 5 to 8 (but still a significant increases). Several years ago there was a competition held by General Motors in which engineering students from 20 different schools were invited, given a Suburban and a $100K budget and Georgia Tech won with a 4.2L diesel-electric hybrid. Most attempted fuel cells but weren't able to complete the technology with available technology and budget. Georgia Tech's won in all categories, towing, economy, emissions, and general driving (all of this IIRC) etc... So they have been around for some time. Diesels seem to be finally making a showing in the states (again?) but I think a diesel-electric hybrid in a passenger vehicle would be too risky at this point unfortunately or at least in the eyes of the manufacturer... :( The three vehicles developed in the US by the Big Three under the abandoned PNGV program all achieved 80mpg and they were all diesel-electric hybrids. There are some details here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_future.html Do diesels have a future? Do an archive search for PNGV if you want an interesting read: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ This is a good place to start: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30857/ Keith Andre Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Theoretical Question
Hi Tomas, Kim and all would you know how strong the lye is? I am looking at worst case scenario for our world so I don't think government will have anything to do with the ethanol. Bright Blessings, Kim Hello, if you are looking at the worst case scenarios, have a look at the caveman chemistry book, might be interesting for you. http://cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/ Previous response to this question: Subject: Re: [biofuel] making lye from ash Sounds too good to be true... anyone out there making their own KOH from ash? Why can't we use soft woods? What about a little? What are some municipal sources of ash/feedstock for this process (I would not want to burn hardwood scraps and put more carbon in the atmosphere if I could find a connection to ash directly). Dave Hi Dave Trouble is the content of wood ash varies widely. Another problem is that the KOH is mixed with potassium carbonate, and some sodium too. Which may not be as big a problem as it sounds. But at any rate you'd have to test the strength each time, somehow. Hence the red cabbage juice and other natural testers. I'll be trying this quite soon, got most of what I need, except for a couple of things. Check this thread: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/16415/1 Making methanol and lye Especially lye. Nice description and slide show of producing Chlorine, Hydrogen, and Lye from table salt, using PET bottles, flashlight batteries, glue and stuff. Unfortunately that site has moved now. It's here, but I can't find this material there: http://cavemanchemistry.com/ Caveman Chemistry : Hands-on Projects in Chemical Technology But the process is described here: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/28372/ Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Question on veggie oil fuel
Hello Dale Dear friends, I just bought an 89 Ford diesel with the intention of running veggie oil or used oil instead of diesel. I understand that veggie oil is cleaner, so hope to go that route. My question is this: If I heat the veggie oil in its own tank with a radiator source heat coil in the tank, and maybe heat the fuel filter up the line prior to injection, do I need to process the used veggie oil, other than a good pre-filtering job prior to pouring it into my veggie tank in my van? If so, what exactly is the process required to extract the glycerols, etc... Thanks for your help. Dale[EMAIL PROTECTED] or[EMAIL PROTECTED] I think you can learn a lot from this: Straight vegetable oil (SVO) http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#3choices Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Biodiesel - Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Best wishes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] List Discussions As Biofuels
Hallo Friends, There is sometimes a comment on the list, usually from a newcomer, that this is a biofuel list and that we ought to be discussing biofuels rather than politics or religion or whatever. I would like to suggest that rational discussion of anything which can lead to altering ones way of thinking for the better ought to be considered biofuel. The mind devours, digests and lives on information and thoughts. When thinking stops the mind atrophies or dies. New concepts, new information is needed to keep the mind strong and healthy. We do not have to agree with everything we hear but we need to at least consider what others have to say. No matter where we are from or what we believe we need to turn things over in our mind as though it was a compost heap and let logic and reason burn out that which is useless or evil and leave only fertile soil remaining. It is difficult to train oneself to stand back from our preconceived notions and cultural and religious training and look objectively at anothers point of view. However when we do that we not only give them the courtesy and consideration they deserve but we either confirm or falsify our own knowledge and beliefs. If we are honest, with ourselves at least, we will change ourselves to bring our thought in line with that which is true if it is shown that we are wrong. The sustenance of this list has been the love of ones fellow human beings, the ethic of care and the desire to serve others. The underlying commonality of this list is not the desire to make biofuels and put more money in the pocketbook but the humanity of the list members. This is not a list to aid individuals but a list of cooperation to aid everyone, particularly those of little means. It also, and in no lesser manner I think, aids the planet on which we live remain healthier. We have just come through a difficult time and I don't know that we are out of the woods yet. If we are all to succeed together we must lay aside our differences, be open to new and sometimes painful information, and make our judgements based on what is true, what the actual situation is, what the facts are rather than our personal and emotionally held beliefs which may or may not be right. If we refuse to examine our own cherished beliefs in the light of reason and logic rather than from a subjective, biased and emotional viewpoint then we are depriving our mind of the biofuel it needs to grow and understand. I believe this is why there are no topic cops on the biofuel list. I believe this is why there are no sacred cows here. I see no hate but I have seen anger. That should not be a problem. People get angry about things sometimes. But friends, we need to quit using only our narrow vision and open up our peripheral sight. The bottom line is not what counts here. People and planet count. The welfare of both. Lack of peripheral vision, tunnel vision, is a good working definition of insanity I think. By using our peripheral vision we understand that there is only one race, human, and one country, our planet. We are one family living in one place and an offense against one is an offense against all. Family helps family. We are all brothers and sisters together. I hope this helps in understanding how and why the biofuel list functions and survives as it does. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Raschig rings
Hi Ben! You've asked a good question maybe you should check this out: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/distillers/?keywords=raschig+ring+sources many hits including alternatives such as glass beads or steel pot scrubbers. benjinsl wrote: Greetings all, I am planning to build a small ethanol still, http://www.moonshine-still.com/still.pdf, and would like to know if anyone can recommend a reputable source of raschig rings, or have any ideas of substitutes? (steel wool?) Ben -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Any1 help to find methanol in GA, metro Atlanta
Thanks. I thought I had seen that here before. While on the subject, the NaOH I bought was listed as NaOH Purum on the Fisher web site. The ingredient list mentioned only sodium hydroxide, so I thought it was pure. As mentioned, test batches with virgin oil and with the two step process end up with incomplete reactions and lots of emulsifiers. The only explanation I can come up with is the NaOH. Does anyone know what the Purum means? Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Phil Dodd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HEET comes in 2 packages. One red, and one Yellow. Read the labels for the methanol. It is 99% methanol. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Electric Car Problems (was New to the group)
John, I see Martin has already pointed out a couple of websites to contradict your postulations with facts. I particularly like Chip Gribben's article on the topic. It's been a stopper for the electric cars pollute more than gas cars myth for some years now. However, I want to take issue with some of your other comments. First, electric cars don't have the same problem as hydrogen cars. Electric cars exist in credible numbers based on robust and proven technologies; hydrogen cars exist in automakers public relations fleets only, and there are significant RD hurdles remaining for them before they can be considered practical. As near as I can make out, the world population of hydrogen cars is still well under 200 vehicles, and many of those are long defunct. Electric cars exist in considerable numbers (see http://www.econogics.com/ev/evwhere.htm for a sample listing). Off- road, electric vehicle technology is prolific. Second, electric cars run on electricity. Hydrogen cars run on fossil fuels. Over 90% of hydrogen produced commercially today comes from the steam reforming of natural gas. Hydrogen can be produced from electricity (electrolysis), but it's a really bad idea in terms of efficiency and practicality. For more, see http://www.econogics.com/en/heconomy.htm . Third, battery-electric cars are more efficient than hydrogen cars, by a considerable margin. Nuclear energy is a really poor way to produce electricity. It is inefficient. It is expensive. It produces a form of pollution we have not managed to dispose of in over 50 years of operations. (There is only one permanent nuclear waste disposal site on the planet. Chernobyl. And it's sarcophagus is deteriorating.) It is a part of the nuclear weapons feedstock. Uranium mining is lethal. Uranium mining and refining tailings are toxic. Whether or not increased use of electric cars will produce a net increase in CO2 depends on what assumptions you make about the means of producing the electricity. There are sources that do not produce CO2 (e.g. wind, photovoltaics, hydro, geothermal). Most electric vehicles are charged overnight, when demand for electricity is low. The electrical generating industry has stated for years (see EPRI studies) that millions of EVs could be charged with no increase in generating capacity being required. Additional fuel may be required, but it does not necessarily have to be fossil fuels (e.g. landfill gas, biomass waste products, other biofuels, the non-CO2 producers noted previously, or even the existing nuclear plants which typically supply the bulk of baseload, i.e. night time, generation in the areas where they are located). By the way, the inefficiency of batteries is roughly 10%, which is primarily a function of the charger being used. Smarter chargers do better. The key advantage of electrics is their efficiency, typically in the order of 75% or better (from charging outlet to wheels). Gas cars, in urban use (hybrids excluded) typically manage less than 15% efficiency (from pump to wheels). Now, given that a battery electric is about 75% efficient, and that transmission and distribution losses for the electrical grid average about 6%, and a typical power plant is 40% efficient or better, for a system efficiency of approximately 28% (assuming fossil fuel primary source - worst case), and a gas car is about 15% efficient (not counting losses associated with exploration, drilling, refining, storage and transport to your local gas station), how do you figure that Net CO2 output from coal after inefficiency of batteries and the like are taken into account is far higher than gas vehicles? You discount the impact of moving the point of combustion as though it is irrelevant. It is not. Electric cars produce no emissions at point of use, which for the most part is in our urban areas, where air quality is the lowest and human populations are highest. In addition, it is much easier to clean up one smokestack than 100,000 tailpipes. In terms of emissions control, smokestacks get cleaner with age (better technology is retrofitted). Tailpipes get dirtier with age. Given the dispersion issues and the proximity to human lungs, moving the smoke plume can actually produce significant advantages. CO2 is not the major factor when it comes to somatic health effects. Please note that electric vehicles excel in stop-and-go city driving where we do most of our driving, and where internal combustion engines fare worst due to the amount of time spent idling and accelerating and the short periods spent cruising at steady speeds. Electric cars have the potential to become zero-emissions, depending on the source of the electricity. Internal combustion engines cannot aspire to accomplish the same. Darryl McMahon John Woolsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Think about it. Electric cars have the same problem as hydrogen cars.
[biofuel] Re: List Discussions As Biofuels
Thanks, Gustl. I couldn't agree more. I often see things that I don't agree with here. When it happens, I often (but not always) comment. I try to restrict my comments to areas in which I have some knowledge or a strong opinion. When it is opinion, I do my best to express it that way. I know that sometimes I don't express myself in the kindest, most gentle manner, but I do try to be respectful. Those should be the only guides to what is and isn't appropriate here, in my opinion. And, I do agree that politics and biofuels are intertwined enough to make the discussion of all aspects of each appropriate to this list. Of course, that again is only my opinion. I try to be a member of this community, and don't feel that I have any right to make rules or impose my will onto others. I hope that my behavior reflects that. On another note, isn't it great to have some new posts again. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Gustl Steiner-Zehender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo Friends, There is sometimes a comment on the list, usually from a newcomer, that this is a biofuel list and that we ought to be discussing biofuels rather than politics or religion or whatever. I would like to suggest that rational discussion of anything which can lead to altering ones way of thinking for the better ought to be considered biofuel. The mind devours, digests and lives on information and thoughts. When thinking stops the mind atrophies or dies. New concepts, new information is needed to keep the mind strong and healthy. We do not have to agree with everything we hear but we need to at least consider what others have to say. No matter where we are from or what we believe we need to turn things over in our mind as though it was a compost heap and let logic and reason burn out that which is useless or evil and leave only fertile soil remaining. It is difficult to train oneself to stand back from our preconceived notions and cultural and religious training and look objectively at anothers point of view. However when we do that we not only give them the courtesy and consideration they deserve but we either confirm or falsify our own knowledge and beliefs. If we are honest, with ourselves at least, we will change ourselves to bring our thought in line with that which is true if it is shown that we are wrong. The sustenance of this list has been the love of ones fellow human beings, the ethic of care and the desire to serve others. The underlying commonality of this list is not the desire to make biofuels and put more money in the pocketbook but the humanity of the list members. This is not a list to aid individuals but a list of cooperation to aid everyone, particularly those of little means. It also, and in no lesser manner I think, aids the planet on which we live remain healthier. We have just come through a difficult time and I don't know that we are out of the woods yet. If we are all to succeed together we must lay aside our differences, be open to new and sometimes painful information, and make our judgements based on what is true, what the actual situation is, what the facts are rather than our personal and emotionally held beliefs which may or may not be right. If we refuse to examine our own cherished beliefs in the light of reason and logic rather than from a subjective, biased and emotional viewpoint then we are depriving our mind of the biofuel it needs to grow and understand. I believe this is why there are no topic cops on the biofuel list. I believe this is why there are no sacred cows here. I see no hate but I have seen anger. That should not be a problem. People get angry about things sometimes. But friends, we need to quit using only our narrow vision and open up our peripheral sight. The bottom line is not what counts here. People and planet count. The welfare of both. Lack of peripheral vision, tunnel vision, is a good working definition of insanity I think. By using our peripheral vision we understand that there is only one race, human, and one country, our planet. We are one family living in one place and an offense against one is an offense against all. Family helps family. We are all brothers and sisters together. I hope this helps in understanding how and why the biofuel list functions and survives as it does. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von
[biofuel] Re: PLEASE READ - MODERATOR'S MESSAGE
[Edited to change subject heading - KA] No problem Keith. Though I did wonder what da heck. when it happened. Curtis Nothing says I love you like a bouquet of flowers! http://www.flowerson55.com - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear all My apologies for this ghastly flood of old messages we've all been subjected to in the last 24 hours. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Closing the loop Was: Making Methanol from Glycerin
Hmmm. I wonder if it's possible to convert biomass to Methanol (THEN the resulting methanol plus WVO equals Biodiesel) That would make it possible to make Biodiesel without relying on commercial anything-at-all. Living totally off-the-land. Curtis Nothing says I love you like a bouquet of flowers! http://www.flowerson55.com - Original Message - From: balaji [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have worked with the biomass gasification process for quite a few years and the conversion efficiency of biomass carbon to methanol is more in the 20% region. Check Was your work on up, down or crossdraft ? Did you use it for powergeneration or for thermal energy only ? What was the process followed forconversion of syngas tomethanol ? What were the stage wise yields of methanol and the energybalance? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
