Re: [biofuel] Extending storage life of biodiesel
Hello, In relation to the storage issues, from our experience it may not be much of an issue at all at the commercial level we opened up a drum from our first reactor that was 4 years old a couple of weeks ago 45 gallons of it, it had been sitting outside in a steel drum with approximatly 5 inches of airspace over the esters (55 gal drum) so it has been through some record breaking winters and several high heat cycles unattended. even though this was a unintentional test is showing us some things. this batch was 50% soy 50% wvo procesessed at the same time. supprised us... there was a little bit of cloudyness but not much at all, which was easilly removed by simply stirring one of our trucks has run almost a week on it with no change in performance from the freshest batch perhaps it may be as easy as dilution, with fresh.. when you pull up to your customers tank, run theirs through a pump as you add your fresh. perhaps run it through a coalescing filter that you have mounted on your truck to remove any molecular water just wondering, does anyone know of anyone using biodiesel that lets it sit in their tanks for more than a month or 2? I don't except for some standby generators but I have not been able to arrange any contracts with them yet (eg ameritec) so I dont know the inside scoop from what I understand part of their maintenance is to replace the fuel every 6 months anyways On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:14:38 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *Hello again, * *Dr. Jon Van Gerpen taught a course segment on the oxidation issue. He has *charts that show a doubling of storage life of vegetable oil with an antioxidant. *Most of these studies have been done on vegetable oil or lard to date, but *should translate in some degree to biodiesel. The more effective stabilizers *have chelators which help tie up free metals, such as copper that catalyze *oxidation. * *The amount of antioxidant is more than a few ppm, I guess, since it is 0.01%, *which translates to 100 ppm, as you say. This has been shown to reduce *oxidation 20 fold. * *Americans are not so concerned with polymerization as are the Europeans, *although I'm not sure that should be so. I don't know how these chemicals affect *this lacquer effect. * *I was talking about measuring the peroxide content as a measure of oxidation. * As with most technical details, there are various levels one can work with, *and until my operation is in production, which is planned for by next spring, *I intend to work on the basics: keep it dry, sell it fast, add some standard *preservatives, inform your customers about how to handle it, and learn from *experience. I wish someone else who is doing this right now was telling us how *it all works, but we are still earlier in our learning process. * *Tom Leue * * *In a message dated 7/26/04 2:09:20 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * * * Hello Tom, Lurch * * The most effective antioxidants for biodiesel are the same you find in * breakfast cereal packaging, namely BHA and BHT. A mixture of the * two works even * better. Now you can buy premixed antioxidants from companies such as Kodak. * It * only takes a few ppm to make a dramatic impact on shelf life of biodiesel. * For you natural granola types, citric acid can easily double the shelf life * of * biodiesel. * * Do you have any further information on this? Or have you tried it? In * Europe, where the new Euro standard has tough Oxidation stability * limits, people are using anti-oxidants specifically made for * biodiesel, and they say the food additives, and even the edible oil * anti-oxidants (usually synthetic vitamins) are not suitable. This is * commercial-level stuff, usually sold by the IBC (intermediate bulk * container - 1000 litres), it's expensive, and the manufacturers keep * the formulas to themselves. * * It's usually added at 200-300 ppm volumetric. The anti-ox additive * must be injected into the finished fuel right after production. You * have about 8 hours to wash and dry before the anti-ox injection. The * injection should be done without splashing. And obviously * bubble-washing and bubble-drying are out, not just because of the * time factor but because they both oxidise the fuel. * * The purpose of this isn't so much to increase storage life and deter * biological activity as to prevent the cross-bridging and * polymerisation caused by oxidation. Rapeseed oil is probably the most * common feedstock there, polymerisation is said to be a concern with * rapeseed oil, and it has a lower Iodine Value than America's soy oil * does. Both are classed as semi-drying oils. * * The most effective method is to keep it in an airtight container. * * Biodiesel is also unstable in light. Keep it in a dark place. * * Also, dry biodiesel is far more stable. * * Maybe as far as biological activity is concerned, but I don't think * water content has any effect on cross-bridging. * * If this is not possible, such as * being in a
[biofuel] Responses to Dubya thread
The point of my previous message was obviously misconstrued, and I apologize for my lack of clarity. What I was trying to say is that if you oppose the war in Iraq, then voting for John Kerry will not solve your problems. Even so, I will attempt to address the three responses to my previous post. Keith, this list is an excellent source of information, both political, and biofuel related, however most of it is news. This happened, that didn't happen, the administration did this, a representative said that, so-and-so paid so-and-so, etc. Oftentimes political articles and posts stimulate a discussion that devolves into get Bush out. While that may be a legitimate solution to many problems, it won't solve America's current foreign policy crisis. And that was my point. I don't believe that every non-American on this list (or in the world) hates America, nor do I believe that posts providing negative information about goings-on are necessarily criticism. As you said the problem of the polarization of American politics is very complex, the origins of which predate the republic (federalists vs. anti-federalists). I still contend that the duocracy debate is merely a red herring, but since so many people believe the lie of the two-party system, it is a problem nonetheless. Aside from taking up arms the only thing we can really do is educate ourselves and others about what's going on, and maybe enough people will figure out that they're getting screwed and say enough! Unfortunately this process is maddeningly arduous (and frustrating). MH, the basis of the American Republic is rooted in John Locke's Treatises of Liberty (i.e. life liberty and property, which the founders changed to pursuit of happiness in the interest of enlisting the support of un-landed citizens). What this really means is that our government was designed to protect property rights and maintain status quo. The situation that we have in this country is that less than 20 percent of the people control more than 80 percent of the wealth and less than one half of one percent controls over half of the wealth. The myth of government by the people for the people is a fiction that they teach us in public school to keep us complacent. It is logical and reasonable to conclude then that those who have more property (money) have more access to the government and more influence over government policy, and that those with less property (money) will have less access and influence. Our government is therefore more accurately a government by the rich for the rich. It doesn't matter which party you support because in the end it will bow to the needs of the patrons who support it. To try and say that Kerry is less in the pocket of BIG money than Shrub is silly. He may be more sophisticated, but he's married to Teresa Heinz for crying out loud. Likewise does being a Democrat make Senator Jay Rockefeller any less a Rockefeller? No it doesn't. So while these obscenely rich people parade around wearing a blue jacket or a red jacket, it doesn't make them any less rich, and it certainly doesn't stop them from protecting what's theirs. Todd, Todd, Todd. I thought we were over all this. As I've stated REPEATEDLY, the only way that we can hope to gain even a modicum of control over our government is to participate. And that doesn't mean just showing up on Tuesday to flip a switch or punch a chad. It means following every city council meeting, attending public hearings, voting in school board elections, writing your state representatives, paying attention to how your federal representatives are voting and letting them know how you feel, and generally being involved as much as possible. This is our DUTY as citizens, and it can make a difference, but unfortunately not on the Federal executive level. If anything the 2000 election should show you that it doesn't matter which candidate you vote for, because someone else chooses the President. As far as my call for recommendations is concerned, you personal attack didn't offer a solution to our pickle. Namely, we have a pro-war jackass in office, and another pro-war jackass attempting to unseat him. In the end we'll still end up with a pro-war jackass as president. So bright boy, instead of attacking me why don't you shut your stinking cake hole before I shut it for you? -BRAH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the
Re: [biofuel] Rice husk ash
Thanks Keith, I was soft bounced and missed some postings. James On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Keith Addison wrote: Are the rice hulls the same as the germ ? No. From previous: Uhh, maybe I don't know what rice husks are -- I've always assumed they're some part of the plant that encases the rice grain, That's what they are. Aka rice hulls. and that I never see in my rice straw. No, you wouldn't. I doubt the rice is dehusked at the farm-level, it'll be sent to a mill. Products are rice and bran, husks are waste. Should be FFTA. Unless they've found some by-product use for them there. The germ is part of the seed, not part of its casing. Usually it is removed in polishing the rice seed (white rice, as opposed to brown rice, which still has the germ), in which case it's found in the bran. It is the germ that gives the bran its high oil content. Which we've discussed here before with you. James On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema wrote: it'll be sent to a mill. Products are rice and bran, husks are waste. Should be FFTA. Unless they've found some by-product use for them there. Some straw-bale builders are using (unburnt!) rice husks for ceiling/attic insulation. It blows in like cellulose, and the high silica content makes it fairly fire-retardant. I've heard somebody mixed hulls into their 'mud' (earthen plaster) to seal the strawbale walls.For those who are interested, raw wool is another great insulator for ceilings/attics,but it doesn't blow in. US rice mills will generally want to give you large quantities (a dump truck full) but don't like to mess with smaller quantities when it comes to hulls. If you're going to use it for building, a dump-truck might not be too much. Ashing it brings it down to about a quarter the volume. If you're more interested in smaller stuff than houses, like stoves, the mills will probably let you take whatever you want if you go there. ...and that's more eco-trivia to fill your noggin... Thankyou Heidi. regards Keith HeidiWD To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but also treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt, 1918 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=941045787] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] More info on diesel fuel
Hi, Brian, You can learn everything you ever wanted to know about TDIs at www.tdiclub.com. I got some good tips there. Changes I have made to my car: 1. Made a drag-reducing wing. I can send a picture. It increases mileage by 3 mpg. 2. Reset the EGA code. See www.tdiclub.com, FAQs for instructions. Effect unknown. 3. Raised tire pressure to about 33 cold, 38 hot. Probably adds another 1 mpg. 4. I usually drive on the highway at a steady (on cruise control) 62 to 65 miles per hour. This is the most important change. Adjusting speed gives the following results: Summer mileage, no wing, constant speed on I-80 Tooele to Wendover, UT, Flying J fuel 2003 VW New Beetle TDI diesel `60 mph58.2 mph 65 mph57.1 mph 70 mph51.1 mph 75 mph46.4 mph 80 mph42.7 mph Numbers in the table are uncorrected for gauge errors. Miles traveled per test, about 197 miles, was read from the trip meter; this reads about 1% low. Speed is the speedometer reading, which is about 3% high. Tank is filled just before and after test run, which takes about three hours. Tank vent valve is held open during filling, and I fill to about one inch from top. Fuel measurements are thought to be repeatable to 0.05 gallon (no temperature correction). Results are collected on days with no wind or rain. You can see that, if the latest result holds true, then Phillips summer diesel is outperforming Flying J diesel by about 3 mpg. Ernie Rogers Brian asked, Ernie, Have you made any modifications to your TDI to acheive these results. I have an '03 Beetle TDI, and the best I have been able to manage so far is 51.2 mpg. If there is a way to improve on this, please share. Brian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] My view on diesel cars, and a notable event.
hwo would i reduce the diesel emssions in my '87 vanagon with a '83 Jetta TD engine?? -- To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but also treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt, 1918 -- Original message -- Hello Ernie Interesting forward, thanks. Some comments on NOx etc. below. Hello, I am forwarding a message (at the bottom) that I posted on a private li st yesterday because it may have relevance with climate change. Virtually all large engines on earth are diesel engines-- all trucks, merchant ships, earth movers, tractors, trains, many mw-size power stations, but so far no aircraft. The reasons are practical and economic-- these engines produce the most power relative to fuel use and other costs. Diesel engines also have outstanding performance in giving the most power with least CO2. They do even better when running on biodiesel or low-carbon fuels such as LNG, for example in powering urban buses. A 20% to 30% reduction in GHG production from autos can be achieved just by using diesel engines in cars. The limited use of diesel cars in the U.S. and elsewhere is tied to emissions problems. Mainly in the US, and, more recently at some places in Japan (which is still way ahead of the US in all hings diesel). See: Do diesels have a future? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_future.html It seems to me that the science on air pollution by diesel engines is in a confused state. Here's why. Diesel engines are presently designed and operated to achieve a balance between production of NOx, and HCs and particulates. If one allows more NOx, then HCs and particulates can be very low. If HCs and particulates are allowed to increase, then NOx can be very low. In the distant past, someone decided that NOx is a pollutant. This seems odd to me because at the same time, we extoll the production of NOx in the atmosphere by lightning for its essential role in nitrogen fixation and growth in plants. I think the reason that NOx was declared a pollutant is that it reacts with HCs in the atmosphere to produce smog, a very dangerous mixture in urban atmospheres. On the other hand, if all engines were lean-running diesels, there would be so little HCs in the atmosphere that smog formation would not occur. In conclusion, I think an effort is needed to straighten out the matter with diesel engines and NOx limits. Without NOx limits, very-lean-burning diesels could provide an immediate and substantial reduction in production of CO2 and other air pollutants. See: NOx emissions and biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_nox.html From a previous message: ... the real problem isn't the diesels, it's the fuel - US diesel fuel is very poor-quality. With maximum possible foot-dragging by Big Oil USA, it might be improved by 2007, which will put the US 17 years behind Europe. This is the big barrier to clean-diesel technology in the US. Solve that problem, and all the other problems associated with diesels simply vanish. In the meantime, use biodiesel, use also the various technologies available to reduce NOx way below dino-diesel levels, use catalytic converters that you can use with biodiesel but not with high-sulfur dinodiesel, and all the other problems vanish. So, no problem. NOx is also a non-issue. Take this, eg: NOX and VOCs in combination with sunlight form ozone. Urban airshed modeling studies of the Baton Rouge nonattainment area show that reductions in VOCs are more effective in reducing ozone levels than reductions in NOX. In some cases, reductions in NOX have actually been shown to have a negative benefit in the control of ozone levels. For this reason, DEQ's current ozone reduction strategy calls for more VOC reductions rather than further reductions in NOX. - Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality http://www.deq.state.la.us/evaluation/air_indicators/no_2_.htm I contacted the Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality about this asking for further details of the study, but they didn't reply. I'm not in a good position to follow it up. Care to try? Another solution: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/36046/ Re: [biofuel] EPA to Finalize Diesel Pollution Rules Tuesday And this is interesting: The UC Davis biodiesel study -- Chemical and Bioassay Analyses of Diesel and Biodiesel Particulate Matter: Pilot Study -- Final Report by Norman Y. Kado, Robert A. Okamoto and Paul A. Kuzmicky, Department of Environmental Toxicology, University of California, Davis, California, November 1996. This U.S. Department of Energy study found that the use of pure biodiesel instead of petroleum-based diesel fuel could offer a 93.6% reduction in
Re: [biofuel] My view on diesel cars, and a notable event.
how on earth did you get such fuel efficiency? -- To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but also treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt, 1918 -- Original message -- Hello, I am forwarding a message (at the bottom) that I posted on a private li st yesterday because it may have relevance with climate change. Virtually all large engines on earth are diesel engines-- all trucks, merchant ships, earth movers, tractors, trains, many mw-size power stations, but so far no aircraft. The reasons are practical and economic-- these engines produce the most power relative to fuel use and other costs. Diesel engines also have outstanding performance in giving the most power with least CO2. They do even better when running on biodiesel or low-carbon fuels such as LNG, for example in powering urban buses. A 20% to 30% reduction in GHG production from autos can be achieved just by using diesel engines in cars. The limited use of diesel cars in the U.S. and elsewhere is tied to emissions problems. It seems to me that the science on air pollution by diesel engines is in a confused state. Here's why. Diesel engines are presently designed and operated to achieve a balance between production of NOx, and HCs and particulates. If one allows more NOx, then HCs and particulates can be very low. If HCs and particulates are allowed to increase, then NOx can be very low. In the distant past, someone decided that NOx is a pollutant. This seems odd to me because at the same time, we extoll the production of NOx in the atmosphere by lightning for its essential role in nitrogen fixation and growth in plants. I think the reason that NOx was declared a pollutant is that it reacts with HCs in the atmosphere to produce smog, a very dangerous mixture in urban atmospheres. On the other hand, if all engines were lean-running diesels, there would be so little HCs in the atmosphere that smog formation would not occur. In conclusion, I think an effort is needed to straighten out the matter with diesel engines and NOx limits. Without NOx limits, very-lean-burning diesels could provide an immediate and substantial reduction in production of CO2 and other air pollutants. Below is an account of fuel economy being achieved by a diesel car. I think this auto efficiency is far above what is being achieved with the Toyota Prius or other hybrid cars. Ernie Rogers Ernie said (July 24), Many of you know that I just made a trip to Alaska with my grandson, in a 2003 Beetle TDI diesel. We achieved a fuel efficiency of about 115 person-miles per gallon of fuel. I think that would compare favorably with competing transportation methods. Here is my discovery, made yesterday and today while driving homeward-- 1. Fuel purchased yesterday in Edmonton (Shell) gave 56 miles per gallon. 2. BUT fuel purchased today in Idaho Falls (Phillips, from Utah refinery) gave 63 miles per gallon. The difference here is much larger than the expected variation due to systematic or random errors. The fuel from the more southern station and refinery gives 12% more mileage than the more northern fuel. Travel conditions were about as much alike as possible, good highways and nearly perfect, windless weather. I think the fuel performance difference is traceable to differences in fuel composition, and resulting difference in energy density. This situation closely parallels differences seen between summer and winter diesel formulas. I haven't called the fuel producers, but I suspect that the northern fuel has a higher hydrogen content, in other words, they blended in some #1 diesel. This lower fuel performance was seen over all the fuel purchased in Alaska and northwest Canada. The ASTM spec for diesel fuel probably has a full explanation. I probably should dig the spec out of my files and see what it says about this By the way, pretty good fuel economy, wouldn't you say? (Trip speed was carefully controlled to 100 km, or 62 miles, per hour.) And, air emissions are very low (based upon my nose measurement) since I had the EGR turned all the way down (to the legal limit). Ernie Rogers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70
[biofuel] methanol question
How pure does it have to be to use it in biodiesel production? (i mean other particles, contaminents , NOT water ofcourse..) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: My view on diesel cars, and a notable event.
Keith, I am looking for reports comparing emissions from virgin vegoil biodiesel and watse oil biodiesel. I have left a couple of messages here and there. Do you have any leads? Pierre --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And this is interesting: The UC Davis biodiesel study -- Chemical and Bioassay Analyses of Diesel and Biodiesel Particulate Matter: Pilot Study -- Final Report by Norman Y. Kado, Robert A. Okamoto and Paul A. Kuzmicky, Department of Environmental Toxicology, University of California, Davis, California, November 1996. This U.S. Department of Energy study found that the use of pure biodiesel instead of petroleum-based diesel fuel could offer a 93.6% reduction in cancer risks from exhaust emissions exposure. Acrobat file, 3.1Mb. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/UCDavisBiodiesel.pdf UC Davis biodiesel study -- summary: the Summary, Results and Discussion sections of the report, in html format. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/UCDavisSumm.html Best wishes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: My view on diesel cars, and a notable event.
--- Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Fuel purchased yesterday in Edmonton (Shell) gave 56 miles per gallon. 2. BUT fuel purchased today in Idaho Falls (Phillips, from Utah refinery) gave 63 miles per gallon. The difference here is much larger than the expected variation due to systematic or random errors. I am skeptical as to whether one fill up can really give you an accurate answer, as it will vary anyway according to exactly how you drive, prevailing wind velocity, ambient temperature and possibly humidity among other factors. I normally see a significant variability in my fuel economy. I suspect the random errors are larger than you imagine. How did you measure it? Having said that, I would expect there to be differences in economy from different suppliers (even from the same supplier on different occasions), so a more long-term measurement would undoubtedly pick up any trend. Have you made any modifications to your TDI to acheive these results. I have an '03 Beetle TDI, and the best I have been able to manage so far is 51.2 mpg. If there is a way to improve on this, please share. I think there is also a natural variability between supposedly identical vehicles - due to manufacturing tolerances in the engine, different amounts of engine wear, tyre wear and pressure, type of lubricating oil used and so forth. But probably the biggest difference is in driving style. When I measure my fuel economy (over a full tank) I instinctively know if it's going to be good or bad, according to how I've driven and also the types of journey I've made. For example I typically get 45mpg but it is normally anywhere between 40 and 50. Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] oil and the war on terrorism
http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/8418/ Winning the War on Muslim Terrorists by Not Fighting At All by Stan Moore (Saturday 24 July 2004) The American people ought to think carefully about such matters. Desire for revenge never settled any international conflict, and America, despite its military preeminence, cannot fight the whole world and win. But American can bankrupt itself by overextending itself and alienating former friends and allies. There is no reason whatever to believe that Osama bin Laden or any other identified so-called terrorist is trying to take away American constitutional freedoms, such as freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, etc. There is no reason whatever to believe that Muslim fundamentalists in Afghanistan or Egypt or Iran or anywhere else believe they can invade the United States and establish strict Muslim fundamentalism amongst the hedonistic American society. Rather, the so-called war on terrorism is really a war of competition for planetary resources, which the Americans seek to control, particularly economic resources such as petroleum and raw materials which make the American way of life possible. The so-called terrorists, rather than waging philosophical war against freedom, are in reality waging a defensive war designed to prevent further American encroachment on their own soils, resources and cultures. By turning the War on Terrorism into a full-scale, long-term military conflict, the basic problems are exacerbated, prolonged, and guaranteed to promote futility in solution-building. More war requires more petroleum, more resources, more violence, more hardware, more wealth, more encroachment, more resistance. If, as American governments were serious about reducing America's dependence on foreign oil, or better yet, eliminating American dependence on foreign oil, there would be little terrorism or little to fight over. If America decided to win the war on terrorism by simply not fighting it and thus removing grievances from foreign peoples and organizations who wish to prevent further American encroachment, the war could be won with minimal loss of life and expense. It was reported this week that the real American military budget for this year was well over $700 Billion -- approaching $800 Billion! Imagine winning a war by reducing military activity and reducing American interventionism around the world! Imagine winning a war of competition for planetary resources by simply going to the marketplace and purchasing commodities at prices agreeable to buyer and seller, without armed interventionism. If American sought security in its access to petroleum in the Persian Gulf and elsewhere, why should not the marketplace and American demand not provide incentive for oil producers around the world to sell to us? America has a completely backward approach to commerce. America wants to threaten and use military force to ensure access to markets that themselves require American participation to remain viable. America as a nation and as a people would be far better off by drastically reducing military expenditures and adventurism and placing those hundreds of billions of dollars of military spending into its own infrastructure and its own education systems and its own debt reduction in order to maximize American value-added participation in the world marketplace. Instead of participating in world commerce by strength of intellect and production of marketable products and ideas, America's governing elite has shifted to militarism as a profit-maker for the investor class, but against the best interests of the taxpayer and worker. And America's public is constantly deceived by the same military/industrial/media complex into believing that our enemies hate us for who we are, rather than for what we have done. The 9/11 commission has foisted this sort of mythical thinking on the American people, as if America was an entirely innocent victim of 9/11 and the only way to solve the problem of terrorism is to multiply the very factors that brought 9/11 to us in the first place! This approach is highly profitable to American business in the short-term, but obscenely harmful to the long-term prospects of the American people both economically, politically, and ecologically. We know that the American economy and land use practices, including contributions to global warming, long-term food production, and economic growth are simply not sustainable under the laws of ecological economics. Instead of reducing the economy, which is on a war-time footing, and reducing our threats to world peace by rolling back our encroachments and provocations against the Muslim World and other world partners, the American elite seeks short-term militarism and long-term bankruptcy. We would be better off fighting the so-called War on Terrorism by not fighting at all in
Re: [biofuel] Extending storage life of biodiesel
Muriatic acid is the same as a 50/50 mix of hydrochloric acid and water. Some amount of hydrochloric can be used to balance excess alkalinity, but I don't think it will act as a preservative particularly. I also don't advocate adding chlorine as it will turn to salt with the excess lye. Have you tested the residual acidity? Let us know. Tom Leue In a message dated 7/27/04 11:52:12 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Tom, I was wondering if Muriatic acid can be used as an anti oxidant as well as to help break an emulsion.Ê I used about a table spoon on 5 gallons of emulsification, and it worked great, but I don't know if it will be detrimental to the engine. Be unto others a wish-granting Jewel -The Dalai-Llama jamie merkle 617 969 2489 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Homestead Inc. www.yellowbiodiesel.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: More info on diesel fuel
Ernie, Thanks for the info. If you could send a picture of the wing that you made, I would appreciate it. My primary e-mail is [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll also take another look at the TDI club. I joined a while back, but just haven't been there much. Seems that has been my loss. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Brian, You can learn everything you ever wanted to know about TDIs at www.tdiclub.com. I got some good tips there. Changes I have made to my car: 1. Made a drag-reducing wing. I can send a picture. It increases mileage by 3 mpg. 2. Reset the EGA code. See www.tdiclub.com, FAQs for instructions. Effect unknown. 3. Raised tire pressure to about 33 cold, 38 hot. Probably adds another 1 mpg. 4. I usually drive on the highway at a steady (on cruise control) 62 to 65 miles per hour. This is the most important change. Adjusting speed gives the following results: Summer mileage, no wing, constant speed on I-80 Tooele to Wendover, UT, Flying J fuel 2003 VW New Beetle TDI diesel `60 mph58.2 mph 65 mph57.1 mph 70 mph51.1 mph 75 mph46.4 mph 80 mph42.7 mph Numbers in the table are uncorrected for gauge errors. Miles traveled per test, about 197 miles, was read from the trip meter; this reads about 1% low. Speed is the speedometer reading, which is about 3% high. Tank is filled just before and after test run, which takes about three hours. Tank vent valve is held open during filling, and I fill to about one inch from top. Fuel measurements are thought to be repeatable to 0.05 gallon (no temperature correction). Results are collected on days with no wind or rain. You can see that, if the latest result holds true, then Phillips summer diesel is outperforming Flying J diesel by about 3 mpg. Ernie Rogers Brian asked, Ernie, Have you made any modifications to your TDI to acheive these results. I have an '03 Beetle TDI, and the best I have been able to manage so far is 51.2 mpg. If there is a way to improve on this, please share. Brian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] European-American War of 2020
A buddy at work (jewish, socialist, New Yorker, so yeah he's probly a little AHEAD of the curve) was speculating that U.S. would be at war with Europe within 15 years. Another fellow asked if that would be just France, but he said he figgered all of Europe would be together in it. I was thinking at the time that U.S. has already LOST the war with Europe, but what do I know? Anyway, since there's some Europeans here, and the putative war would probly be about OIL (or paying for it with euros instead of dollars), I thought this forum might have some light to shed on Fred's idea.. -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: My view on diesel cars, and a notable event.
Hello Pierre Keith, I am looking for reports comparing emissions from virgin vegoil biodiesel and watse oil biodiesel. I have left a couple of messages here and there. Do you have any leads? No I don't. The EPA accepted the NBB's data on virgin soy biodiesel as equivalent to all the rest, whatever the feedstock, including WVO. Big-time European producers commonly use WVO, the standards are strict there. Why would there be a difference? Unless it's badly made, not washed properly. Best wishes Keith Pierre --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And this is interesting: The UC Davis biodiesel study -- Chemical and Bioassay Analyses of Diesel and Biodiesel Particulate Matter: Pilot Study -- Final Report by Norman Y. Kado, Robert A. Okamoto and Paul A. Kuzmicky, Department of Environmental Toxicology, University of California, Davis, California, November 1996. This U.S. Department of Energy study found that the use of pure biodiesel instead of petroleum-based diesel fuel could offer a 93.6% reduction in cancer risks from exhaust emissions exposure. Acrobat file, 3.1Mb. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/UCDavisBiodiesel.pdf UC Davis biodiesel study -- summary: the Summary, Results and Discussion sections of the report, in html format. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/UCDavisSumm.html Best wishes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electricity from WVO and Rapeseed
Kim Garth Travis wrote: snip He told me I was going to starve those poor cows if I didn't bring in the fertilizer truck. I have earth worms on my land and that is all I need. He has promised to kiss my butt on main street if I can sell a calf from one of my cows for $1200. I would like to win that bet.evil grin Thanks for the chance to vent and for the encouragement to continue in trying to build a truely sustainable farm and life. Bright Blessings, Kim Hang in there, Kim! I had a discussion with a chicken farmer today who told me that avian flu epidemics would be WORSE if his birds were allowed to free range. Of course, who would free range over a thousand birds on a 5 acre parcel? Something is WRONG with the way farming is done here in North America! We're enjoying fresh peas, beets, green and purple beans, squash, cabbage and potatoes from our garden right now. We've fertilized them with nothing more than barn scrapings from the nearby bovine auction house. My neighbors are snickering a lot less than they were several weeks ago, especially since we're able to share an abundance of produce from our own lot. Personally, I hope you win your bet! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Responses to Dubya thread - was: DUBYA aint texan nor is his dad
Bryan Brah wrote: The point of my previous message was obviously misconstrued, and I apologize for my lack of clarity. What I was trying to say is that if you oppose the war in Iraq, then voting for John Kerry will not solve your problems. I can't help wonder how many more wars does the Bush Administration have up their sleeve in yellow cake or oil rich regions around the world in the name of terror using that darn good intelligence Dubya feels he receives with a supportive GOP majority in the U.S. media and Congress. And finally, in the world at large we cannot lead if our leaders mislead. -- U.S. President Jimmy Carter, July 26, 2004 As far as I know most people are concerned about money even the GOP candidates G.W. Bush who aren't bashful about whom they favor or cater to as we've read. It's time for a change, Go Johnny go... GO! Whomever you support, Good Luck! MH, the basis of the American Republic is rooted in John Locke's Treatises of Liberty (i.e. life liberty and property, which the founders changed to pursuit of happiness in the interest of enlisting the support of un-landed citizens). What this really means is that our government was designed to protect property rights and maintain status quo. The situation that we have in this country is that less than 20 percent of the people control more than 80 percent of the wealth and less than one half of one percent controls over half of the wealth. The myth of government by the people for the people is a fiction that they teach us in public school to keep us complacent. It is logical and reasonable to conclude then that those who have more property (money) have more access to the government and more influence over government policy, and that those with less property (money) will have less access and influence. Our government is therefore more accurately a government by the rich for the rich. It doesn't matter which party you support because in the end it will bow to the needs of the patrons who support it. To try and say that Kerry is less in the pocket of BIG money than Shrub is silly. He may be more sophisticated, but he's married to Teresa Heinz for crying out loud. Likewise does being a Democrat make Senator Jay Rockefeller any less a Rockefeller? No it doesn't. So while these obscenely rich people parade around wearing a blue jacket or a red jacket, it doesn't make them any less rich, and it certainly doesn't stop them from protecting what's theirs. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] European-American War of 2020
Ken Provost wrote: A buddy at work (jewish, socialist, New Yorker, so yeah he's probly a little AHEAD of the curve) was speculating that U.S. would be at war with Europe within 15 years. Another fellow asked if that would be just France, but he said he figgered all of Europe would be together in it. I was thinking at the time that U.S. has already LOST the war with Europe, but what do I know? Anyway, since there's some Europeans here, and the putative war would probly be about OIL (or paying for it with euros instead of dollars), I thought this forum might have some light to shed on Fred's idea.. -K An old friend of mine argues that this is the REAL reason why the military is pushing for expensive weapons systems, like the Joint Strike fighter, new tanks, armor and smaller, tactical nuclear weapons. This is a little scary, but at the rate things are going, I wouldn't be at all suprised by it. Historically, democracies have not attacked one another. That may be history pretty soon . . . robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: R. Diesel
On 2004-07-26 19.22, biofuel@yahoogroups.com biofuel@yahoogroups.com wrote: Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 02:20:10 +0200 From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: A conversation: Earth oil versus plant oil. The history of R. Diesel is quite interesting. He got an assignment to develop an engine that could run on the coal dust, that was plenty of, as a waste product of the coal mining. He did not succeed, but the result was an engine that at its first introduction was running on peanut oil. It became an success and was implemented to run on fossil oil. R. Diesel disappeared one night, travelling on a boat over the English channel, on his way to London, and it has led to many speculations, his body was never found. Hakan I have read that he was very financially extended at that time - whatever, it is so sad. Interesting is that EU burokrats are scrambling to increase taxes on all fuels whilst still trying to bluff away the proper issue of environmental consequences - hoisted by their own (well actually our) petards? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] European-American War of 2020
Historically, democracies have not attacked one another. That may be history pretty soon . . . Since when have America and the various European nations been democracies? The form of 'democracy' that exists is just an illusion created by the ruling elite, to control the masses and stop them revolting. If you don't believe me, just look at the last presidential election in the US, and the way the European Union is handling the issue of Software Patents. Both would show that the wishes of the population are totally irrelevant to the outcome. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] European-American War of 2020
--- Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A buddy at work (jewish, socialist, New Yorker, so yeah he's probly a little AHEAD of the curve) was speculating that U.S. would be at war with Europe within 15 years. Another fellow asked if that would be just France, but he said he figgered all of Europe would be together in it. I was thinking at the time that U.S. has already LOST the war with Europe, but what do I know? Anyway, since there's some Europeans here, and the putative war would probly be about OIL (or paying for it with euros instead of dollars), I thought this forum might have some light to shed on Fred's idea.. -K Please note my following comments refer primarily to the _political_ systems in place, not individuals from each region of the world! I think we can safely say that Europe and America have been at war with each other for a very long time - mainly over trade issues, but in the bigger picture over cultural and environmental issues too. From the European side of the equation, America is seen as acting primarily to exert and maintain its power over the rest of the world through its de facto monopolies and trade policies - which serve only to enrich America even further. America's (i.e. governmental, not individual Americans') attitude to environmental issues (such as the Kyoto protocol) suggest that they don't care about the rest of the world. The fact that America goes its own way in so many areas of technology (mobile phone standards, NTSC vs PAL in TV standards for example) is cited as evidence of protectionist policies that effectively only allow American companies to compete in the particular market sector. The way contracts have been awarded in Iraq following the war has also raised questions about 'jobs for the boys' as the large American companies have ended up winning the contracts, by and large. As far as oil and energy are concerned, here in the UK most people do see 'the Middle East situation' as being largely as a result of America's quest to control the oil reserves, but with Europe also playing their part. If you look at each nation's energy consumption per capita, America uses roughly twice as much as European nations (source: the Economist, I could dig out detailed figures). Other nations generally come much lower, although there are exceptions. This is often considered to be evidence of America's profligacy. Other considerations include the pump price of motor fuel. If crude oil prices double, the percentage increase in pump prices is much higher in America than in Europe, simply because Americans pay vastly less fuel tax than Europeans. So here there is much less of a focus on oil prices than in America, although there are groups who used recent high prices to threaten strike action and the government eventually backed down from a proposed tax increase on fuel. Because Europe is very congested, high fuel prices serve a very important secondary purpose in discouraging people from over-using their cars. If the prices were to drop to American prices, people would be happy for about a day before they realised that everyone was using their cars more and the road system would grind to a total halt. Most would then ask for the prices to go back up! My impression is that individual Americans come up with a vast number of great ideas, but are trapped in a political system that doesn't allow most of them to thrive. Big businesses with vested interests see to it that the government at the time (whether Republican or Democrat) never implement any policies that would upset them. By big business I mean companies like the oil companies, Microsoft, the motor manufacturers, even Coca Cola and McDonalds. The political parties both have too much to lose by upsetting these companies. I'd be interested on the American perspective of the above issues - how do Americans perceive Europeans over the above issues? Regards, Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fw: BRASIL-BIOCOMBUSTIBLES-OLEQUêMICOS
Saludos. Marcelino Miranda - Original Message - From: Biocombustibles - SAGPyA To: undisclosed-recipients: Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 1:32 PM Subject: BRASIL-BIOCOMBUSTIBLES-OLEQUêMICOS Brasil y Japn negocian crdito para produccin de biocombustibles Brasilia, 19 de julio (EFE).- Autoridades de Brasil negocian un prstamo de 300 millones de dlares con el Banco de Cooperacin Internacional de Japn para la produccin de combustibles de origen vegetal, como alcohol de caa de azcar y biodiesel. El Ministerio de Agricultura inform hoy en un comunicado, que los detalles del prstamo estn siendo discutidos por esta Cartera y por la entidad financiera japonesa, cuyo director, Koichi Yajima, se encuentra de visita en la capital brasilea. Otros 300 millones de dlares sern aportados en Brasil por el Banco Nacional de Desarrollo Econmico y Social (BNDES) para sumar 600 millones de dlares destinados a consolidar el llamado Polo Nacional de Biocombustible, que ser construido en Piracicaba, municipio del estado de Sao Paulo, en el sudeste del pas. Las negociaciones entre Brasil y Japn fueron iniciadas en mayo pasado durante la visita a Tokio del ministro brasileo de Agricultura, Roberto Rodrgues, para explicar las investigaciones en biocombustibles a las autoridades del pas asitico, segn la informacin. En septiembre sern cerrados los detalles del prstamo, asegur el Ministerio de Agricultura. En este programa, la prioridad ser el desarrollo del biodiesel, un combustible derivado de semillas oleaginosas, biodegradable y con menores ndices de emisiones de gases residuales y azufre en comparacin con el diesel derivado de hidrocarburos. Otra parte de la inversin ser destinada a la expansin de la industria del etanol de caa de azcar, tecnologa ya consolidada en Brasil desde hace algunos aos. Segn explic Rodrgues, ser necesario discutir con las autoridades japonesas detalles de precio y de logstica de transporte y almacenaje del etanol que ser destinado al mercado de Japn. En marzo pasado el pas asitico, segunda economa del mundo, determin la adicin de hasta tres por ciento de biocombustible -bioetanol- a la gasolina comn. Segn Rodrgues, esta decisin, puede representar una demanda de 10.000 millones de litros de alcohol combustible por ao en el mercado japons, y, para atenderla, Brasil debe aumentar en al menos dos millones de hectreas su rea de plantaciones de caa de azcar. Brasil produce hoy 12.600 millones de litros de etanol a partir de caa de azcar, y adems de satisfacer su mercado interno (donde es permitida la mezcla de hasta 25 por ciento con la gasolina), busca expandir sus exportaciones del combustible hacia China, Unin Europea y Norteamrica. Estados Unidos, hacia donde tambin apunta Brasil, consume actualmente unos 8.000 millones de litros de etanol, principalmente a partir de MAêZ. Nuevas legislaciones ambientales en ese pas apuntan a triplicar el consumo del producto para el 2012. --- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] European-American War of 2020
You are right, it is not working as it should. Donald Allwright wrote: Historically, democracies have not attacked one another. That may be history pretty soon . . . Since when have America and the various European nations been democracies? The form of 'democracy' that exists is just an illusion created by the ruling elite, to control the masses and stop them revolting. If you don't believe me, just look at the last presidential election in the US, and the way the European Union is handling the issue of Software Patents. Both would show that the wishes of the population are totally irrelevant to the outcome. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129tj7dfo/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=1705083269:HM/EXP=1091100081/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://companion.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Responses to Dubya thread
Yes Bryan. But what would you do? How would you extract the US from a place they had no business going into in the first place, all-the-while leaving the wreckage in a stead something short of a blood bath of murderous anarchy where men, women and children get their throats slit for simply breathing? Do you really think that a responsible solution to the problem that the neo-cons created is going to be as simple as pulling everyone out? If so, I don't believe that you've ever had much experience in cleaning up the messes that others create. Yet you're willing to lay claim that whoever attempts to solve the problem is nothing more than a Dubya clone. That's a blind, or at best a near sighted response. As for the two party system? If you can't tell the difference between the mindsets of the existing two parties in the US, then you need some industrial strength cleaner for those monoculars of yours. While the vast majority of human thought processes are similar across the board, with everyone by-and-large looking for the same things, do you really think that human beings are so far apart in their collective thinking that a third party cramming vegan soy dogs down everyone's throat is going to make any monumental inroads? Even a third party would be conducting the vast majority of the people's business in similar fashion to the existing parties. Whether you like it or not, the two party system is what this nation has to work with. The trick is whether you contribute efforts towards keeping a party alligned with working for the people or one that enslaves the people. Ranting, raving and gesticulating wildly in all directions does nothing. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Bryan Brah [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 11:51 AM Subject: [biofuel] Responses to Dubya thread The point of my previous message was obviously misconstrued, and I apologize for my lack of clarity. What I was trying to say is that if you oppose the war in Iraq, then voting for John Kerry will not solve your problems. Even so, I will attempt to address the three responses to my previous post. Keith, this list is an excellent source of information, both political, and biofuel related, however most of it is news. This happened, that didn't happen, the administration did this, a representative said that, so-and-so paid so-and-so, etc. Oftentimes political articles and posts stimulate a discussion that devolves into get Bush out. While that may be a legitimate solution to many problems, it won't solve America's current foreign policy crisis. And that was my point. I don't believe that every non-American on this list (or in the world) hates America, nor do I believe that posts providing negative information about goings-on are necessarily criticism. As you said the problem of the polarization of American politics is very complex, the origins of which predate the republic (federalists vs. anti-federalists). I still contend that the duocracy debate is merely a red herring, but since so many people believe the lie of the two-party system, it is a problem nonetheless. Aside from taking up arms the only thing we can really do is educate ourselves and others about what's going on, and maybe enough people will figure out that they're getting screwed and say enough! Unfortunately this process is maddeningly arduous (and frustrating). MH, the basis of the American Republic is rooted in John Locke's Treatises of Liberty (i.e. life liberty and property, which the founders changed to pursuit of happiness in the interest of enlisting the support of un-landed citizens). What this really means is that our government was designed to protect property rights and maintain status quo. The situation that we have in this country is that less than 20 percent of the people control more than 80 percent of the wealth and less than one half of one percent controls over half of the wealth. The myth of government by the people for the people is a fiction that they teach us in public school to keep us complacent. It is logical and reasonable to conclude then that those who have more property (money) have more access to the government and more influence over government policy, and that those with less property (money) will have less access and influence. Our government is therefore more accurately a government by the rich for the rich. It doesn't matter which party you support because in the end it will bow to the needs of the patrons who support it. To try and say that Kerry is less in the pocket of BIG money than Shrub is silly. He may be more sophisticated, but he's married to Teresa Heinz for crying out loud. Likewise does being a Democrat make Senator Jay Rockefeller any less a Rockefeller? No it doesn't. So while these obscenely rich people parade around wearing a blue jacket or a red jacket, it doesn't make them any less rich, and
Re: [biofuel] European-American War of 2020
Your buddy is someone who needs to operate in a mindset of fear. War is a matter of choice, predicated entirely upon the choices that were made in the years and months leading up to it. Speculating on what happens or doesn't happen in 16 years changes nothing. Acting today changes everything. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 8:22 PM Subject: [biofuel] European-American War of 2020 A buddy at work (jewish, socialist, New Yorker, so yeah he's probly a little AHEAD of the curve) was speculating that U.S. would be at war with Europe within 15 years. Another fellow asked if that would be just France, but he said he figgered all of Europe would be together in it. I was thinking at the time that U.S. has already LOST the war with Europe, but what do I know? Anyway, since there's some Europeans here, and the putative war would probly be about OIL (or paying for it with euros instead of dollars), I thought this forum might have some light to shed on Fred's idea.. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re[2]: [biofuel] European-American War of 2020
Hallo Donald, Wednesday, 28 July, 2004, 05:46:52, you wrote: DA --- Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A buddy at work (jewish, socialist, New Yorker, so yeah he's probly a little AHEAD of the curve) was speculating that U.S. would be at war with Europe within 15 years. Another fellow asked if that would be just France, but he said he figgered all of Europe would be together in it. I was thinking at the time that U.S. has already LOST the war with Europe, but what do I know? Anyway, since there's some Europeans here, and the putative war would probly be about OIL (or paying for it with euros instead of dollars), I thought this forum might have some light to shed on Fred's idea.. -K DA Please note my following comments refer primarily to the _political_ DA systems in place, not individuals from each region of the world! Noted. The same applies to my statements. DA I think we can safely say that Europe and America have been at war with DA each other for a very long time - mainly over trade issues, but in the DA bigger picture over cultural and environmental issues too. From the DA European side of the equation, America is seen as acting primarily to DA exert and maintain its power over the rest of the world through its de DA facto monopolies and trade policies - which serve only to enrich DA America even further. America's (i.e. governmental, not individual DA Americans') attitude to environmental issues (such as the Kyoto DA protocol) suggest that they don't care about the rest of the world. The DA fact that America goes its own way in so many areas of technology DA (mobile phone standards, NTSC vs PAL in TV standards for example) is DA cited as evidence of protectionist policies that effectively only allow DA American companies to compete in the particular market sector. The way DA contracts have been awarded in Iraq following the war has also raised DA questions about 'jobs for the boys' as the large American companies DA have ended up winning the contracts, by and large. It is a matter of power and national advantage and it is not limited to the United States. It used to be the UK. The roots of the first world war lie in the machinations of the power politics of all the countries involved and particularly the British. No one is immune from this and I believe it to be inherent in ANY organized system of governance. If you go to the anarchism mailing list they will point you to their FAQ's and the FAQ's will tell you that anarchism requires using the socialist economic system. Requires it. Anarchism. And this is in any organized system. Look at organized religion. The US just happens to be the big dog on the block at the moment. That could change in a heartbeat. Remember the USSR? DA As far as oil and energy are concerned, here in the UK most people do DA see 'the Middle East situation' as being largely as a result of DA America's quest to control the oil reserves, but with Europe also DA playing their part. If you look at each nation's energy consumption per DA capita, America uses roughly twice as much as European nations (source: DA the Economist, I could dig out detailed figures). Other nations DA generally come much lower, although there are exceptions. This is often DA considered to be evidence of America's profligacy. Other considerations DA include the pump price of motor fuel. If crude oil prices double, the DA percentage increase in pump prices is much higher in America than in DA Europe, simply because Americans pay vastly less fuel tax than DA Europeans. So here there is much less of a focus on oil prices than in DA America, although there are groups who used recent high prices to DA threaten strike action and the government eventually backed down from a DA proposed tax increase on fuel. Because Europe is very congested, high DA fuel prices serve a very important secondary purpose in discouraging DA people from over-using their cars. If the prices were to drop to DA American prices, people would be happy for about a day before they DA realised that everyone was using their cars more and the road system DA would grind to a total halt. Most would then ask for the prices to go DA back up! We have to go back a lot further to see the actual roots of the middle east problem. Culturally and religiously it has been there for God only knows how long. Politically we can look to the big dogs of the early 20th century and we will see the British with the Balfour declaration and the formation of the political state of Iraq out of three disparate peoples. Further along in the century we see the cooperation between Hitler and the Zionists and Britain and the Zionists as adding fuel to the fire. Then the US entered the scene and mucked it up even more. Cultural and geographical differences between the US and European nations account for how we live and how we view and use fuel. In Texas there is a
Re: [biofuel] European-American War of 2020
Ken Provost wrote: A buddy at work (jewish, socialist, New Yorker, so yeah he's probly a little AHEAD of the curve) was speculating that U.S. would be at war with Europe within 15 years. Another fellow asked if that would be just France, but he said he figgered all of Europe would be together in it. I was thinking at the time that U.S. has already LOST the war with Europe, but what do I know? Anyway, since there's some Europeans here, and the putative war would probly be about OIL (or paying for it with euros instead of dollars), I thought this forum might have some light to shed on Fred's idea.. -K There's too much of a connection with Europe to fight a war with them. It would be an awfully hard sell to the American people, one which I would never buy. I've never bought the Iraq war either, but what do I know. -- Martin K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Lumpy BD
Actually the one I used for this test was open, but for what all purposes is, outside. My full blown processor is completely closed and fumeless, this is the pre-heat drum which had it's immersion heater welded too high on the wall and I had to use a hotplate (electric) and the heat died off way too soon, which is what leaves me to think it was heat related, not process related. In any case I am redoing the batch again this Friday only this time I am having the heater on the drum MiG welded lower so that I can better control the heat all throughout the process, again for all practical purposes, outside. The unit is housed in a pump house and I redid the doors into a barn door configuration so that they open wide right in front of where I am working. Now if I can find one of those ring closures between now and Friday I will install that as an added precaution. The methoxide is being injected via a combination of Methoxide the Easy Way http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth and JtF's use of an aquarium air pump to pump in some pressure to the carboy's vent inlet which I have rigged with a delrin sleeve in the cap. A delrin sleeve is a copper tube about an inch or so long (2- 2.5cm) that is flarred at the one end so I drilled out a hole through the cap and vent inlet area just big enough to not allow the flanged part to go through and then I screw down the cap with this sleeve between it. It is just the right size for an aquarium air line to attach and once the cap is firmly screwed down it is air tight too (no fumes). Up until now it was not a simple matter to get hold of KOH that was reliably pure or whose purity was easily attainable (the numbers aren't on the container, go figure)so I went with the NaOH instead, but then I was offered some lab grade (99.9%) KOH after having bought the sodium so I have yet to have a go using that.. Another reason,I believe, it solidified so much is that, as I said, it is in a pump house, and the temps at night went down to 13C and it being in an open drum didn't help nor did the fact that it is pretty crappy oil (titrated to 10gr/liter)so there was A LOT of by- product :). Anyway, I am having another whack at it this weekend toping off the processed oil with some fresh WVO, only better quality this time, to make 20 liters again (I like round numbers)and re-titrating it to 4.75gr/liter and we shall see what the results will bring. De-gunking the lower plumbing in a water heater style processor requires applying heat from the tank's immersion heater carefully so as not to stir up the mixture again and having to have it re-settle. In order to not have the pum[p and exterior plumbing get gunked up I have installed two isolation valves that will allow me to completely drain the pump and plumbing once the processing is complete, yet retain the settling inside the tank. Once it has settled, I can drain the glycerine via a hose BEFORE it gets to the pump and then the BD can be pumped into the wash bin using the clear pump afterwards.(Also washing out any possible small residues en route) OR I have it set up so that I can easily incorporate a second settling tank a la JtF 90 liter processor http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html using a secondary tube to send it there again using the same pump where it can settle while I do another batch and simply let it settle in the processor itself. I have a seperate wash tank adjacent to the processor so I can wash two batches at once, the one with a bubbler and the other with a pump or whatever and use up the bubbler one first and use the other one later. I don't think I can get away with 160 liters in a 200 liter wash/settling tank with the water needed to properly wash it or with the by-product that will accompany the two 80 liter batches, so then I may just do a 100 liter batch and toss it in the extra settling tank and then do another smaller one (80 liters) and let it settle in the processor, or another 1oo liter for the main processor to handle.(it's flexible)The wvo is no problem as I have two suppliers that told me I can help myself to as much as I want, so that end is covered. Thanks for your input. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good day; I made a test batch of 20 liters the other day and when I checked it for quality using the method described at journeytoforever http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality it returned good fuel with clear and distinct seperation of unwashed fuel in less than 30 seconds. The problem is that when I poured out the BD into a bucket (as the glycerine had solidified at the bottom of the drum)it was lumpy, as if gelatine clumps were floating around in it. Is this due to the temp having dropped off during processing or perhaps incomplete reaction even though the quality test came back positive ? Any input ? Wash it and see. Let
Re: [biofuel] European-American War of 2020
Ken, Your fiend is wrong, there are no gains in a US - Europe war. Europe have not enough oil and the losses would be too large. 2020 Bush is not president and US will not go to a war were many lives are lost, without making substantial gains. If Iraq becomes a true democracy, US will not make this mistake again. US would deal with a peaceful country and will not have the absolute control over the oil that they need. US will try to go back to support of strong dictators, but I think that this will not work in the future. Bush did let the genie out of the bottle, which will lead to large and severe consequences. The process of exchanging dollar to Euro have already started, that is one of the reasons for the high oil prices in dollar. Oil prices in Euro have not gone up more than a couple of Euros. The fact is that the current high oil prices does not effect Europe that much, because they are in dollar and the Euro has gone up very much, from a low of around 0.85 dollar for a Euro to around 1.20+ dollar for a Euro. This is one of the explanations for the high oil prices, the dollar have depreciated and Euro is now already an alternative. The reality is that the Euro already started to replace/complement the dollar. A world war to destroy a currency is not likely to be successful. Your friend is however right, the Euro is probably the largest single threat against US world dominance. A war does not necessary support exchange rates, fiscal policies does and a war cost too much. Already WWII were about energy and the outcome also effected very much by the availability to energy resources. That is why Japan attacked Hawaii (the fuel embargo) and that the fighting in middle east was so crucial before D-day. At that time, US was in a very strong position, as the major oil supplier of the world. The growth of energy use in East Europe, Far East and especially China, is more of a threat and it will be very difficult for US to maintain its position. Nuclear and coal, are almost the only available stop gap solutions and short term alternatives to a massive and diversified investment in renewable. The latter will break up the corporate monopolies, if it must be done in a short time frame. It will also be too localized and change the power structures in the world. This is why hydrogen looks attractive, because it create a dependence on other finite resources, namely materials and technologies for production and containment. It is not an easy situation and the outcome is very difficult to predict. Hakan At 03:22 28/07/2004, you wrote: A buddy at work (jewish, socialist, New Yorker, so yeah he's probly a little AHEAD of the curve) was speculating that U.S. would be at war with Europe within 15 years. Another fellow asked if that would be just France, but he said he figgered all of Europe would be together in it. I was thinking at the time that U.S. has already LOST the war with Europe, but what do I know? Anyway, since there's some Europeans here, and the putative war would probly be about OIL (or paying for it with euros instead of dollars), I thought this forum might have some light to shed on Fred's idea.. -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] European-American War of 2020
I disagree that the US couldn't go to war with Europe. After all, we've already fought each of the European countries individually and beaten them (except France). Additionally, it wouldn't be the first time the US has turned on an ally (remember that we fought beside the Soviets in WWII and they became our greatest enemy). I can easily picture the neo-cons hyping the EU as a threat to American sovereignty. Considering that the current administration has alienated all of our old European allies (except Britain, which incidentally is at odds with many EU policies), I could easily picture another European war. At the very least we'll have another cold war with resulting proxy wars in Africa, Asia, and South America. The United States of America is the largest exporter of war and war materiel (see http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mil_con_arm_exp for the stats). The profits of the global multinational corporations are closely tied to our belligerence. How long do you think that they can hype the current terror threat? I would have to say (perhaps cynically) that the terror threat will end once the US has a more worthy opponent. I've wondered since the demise of the USSR which country that would be, and always assumed that it would be China. However, it seems plausible that it could be the EU, particularly if it opposes the neo-cons plan for American hegemony. Check out http://www.newamericancentury.org http://www.newamericancentury.org/ to see Zbigniew Brzezinski's vision of what the world should and will look like. -BRAH -Original Message- From: Martin Klingensmith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 9:45 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] European-American War of 2020 Ken Provost wrote: A buddy at work (jewish, socialist, New Yorker, so yeah he's probly a little AHEAD of the curve) was speculating that U.S. would be at war with Europe within 15 years. Another fellow asked if that would be just France, but he said he figgered all of Europe would be together in it. I was thinking at the time that U.S. has already LOST the war with Europe, but what do I know? Anyway, since there's some Europeans here, and the putative war would probly be about OIL (or paying for it with euros instead of dollars), I thought this forum might have some light to shed on Fred's idea.. -K There's too much of a connection with Europe to fight a war with them. It would be an awfully hard sell to the American people, one which I would never buy. I've never bought the Iraq war either, but what do I know. -- Martin K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12998erve/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/ D=groups/S=1705083269:HM/EXP=1091112309/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*htt p:/companion.yahoo.com http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=group s/S=:HM/A=2128215/rand=288551353 _ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Responses to Dubya thread
Bryan The point of my previous message was obviously misconstrued, I don't think so. and I apologize for my lack of clarity. What I was trying to say is that if you oppose the war in Iraq, then voting for John Kerry will not solve your problems. That's part of what you said, it wasn't misconstrued, and the majority here don't get to vote, though they'll be very much affected by the outcome. ... Yet the whole world will be watching Boston this week none the less. It will be doing so because there has never been a US presidential election in which the interests and sympathies of the peoples of the world are more at stake than this one. George Bush has been the most divisive and dangerous president to occupy the Oval Office. It is not just a narrow majority of American voters who, according to current polls, want Mr Bush to be defeated in November. It is an overwhelming majority of the citizens of other lands, those of this country very much included. http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/story/0,3604,1268941,00.html The Guardian Leader Monday July 26, 2004 Anyway, as I said, you haven't been listening. A bit of an embarrassment of riches... try this thread (please do so!): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/33249/1 It deals with exactly what you say your concerns are, one of many such threads, it's not just negative information, whatever that is, not just news, it doesn't devolve, 15-20 messages in the thread, and none of them from you. It's hard to find any non-negative offering on this from you. Even so, I will attempt to address the three responses to my previous post. Your response to my post is somewhat strange. Most of it seems to have gone right over your head. You've snipped all the previous, but I'll put my post at any rate back again, so you can have another look. Keith, this list is an excellent source of information, both political, and biofuel related, however most of it is news. Not so. Go and read it again. This happened, that didn't happen, the administration did this, a representative said that, so-and-so paid so-and-so, etc. Oftentimes political articles and posts stimulate a discussion that devolves into get Bush out. Not so again - it doesn't devolve. The infamous F9/11 thread devolved, most others haven't done so. While that may be a legitimate solution to many problems, it won't solve America's current foreign policy crisis. And that was my point. Well, you're just brushing everything aside that gets in the way of the oft-made point you want to make - which is usually offered as something to build on, not a basis for negative criticism, as you've done. Like your first post, it's kind of telling. More osmosis from the very people you're attacking? Here's what I said about that: Also, I think your seeing it as just criticism is perhaps a bit telling. Non-Americans see that response as a symptom of the extreme polarisation of US society that makes the problems you describe so much more difficult to solve, and has made advancing them so much easier. But try to discuss these problems and too many people lash out - you're criticising America, you're just an America-basher, keep your US-hating left-wing liberal vomit to yourself. Label and dismiss, sight unseen, contents unread. Are you falling for this line too, Bryan, through sheer osmosis, though you disagree with it? I think so. For instance: I don't believe that every non-American on this list (or in the world) hates America, That's just what they do here, always - assign the perceived criticism (ie the blame) to non-Americans. Aware that this would be the response, I've been careful to use quotes and refer to work exclusively by Americans, NOT non-Americans, and that's invariably brushed aside, ignored. As you've done. Haven't you even noticed how often the distinction has been made between Americans - people - on the one hand and on the other Washington, especially as regards foreign policy? nor do I believe that posts providing negative information about goings-on are necessarily criticism. What is negative information? And what do you mean by criticism? Criticism is not necessarily negative, intelligent criticism is usually quite the opposite. As you said the problem of the polarization of American politics is very complex, the origins of which predate the republic (federalists vs. anti-federalists). More osmosis - why just explain it away rather than examining it? If you lived in a city with a dreadful violent crime rate and 200 people were being murdered every week would you say, Oh, we've always had that, it goes all the way back to Cain and Abel, it's nothing special? That's what you've done here. The *degree* of polarisation in today's US does indeed make it something special and not comparable with what you're comparing it. I've seen it said that no other country is so polarised that isn't in a state of civil war. I didn't say it was very complex, have
