[biofuel] Re: Soil is not a finite resource

[Keith Addison]

Hello Tomas

>Hi,
>yup , soil is not a finite resource;
>we should rather say - it is a finite resource _stream_.
>(meaning - finite resource amount available for extraction
>on each year cycle).
>Much like other renewable resources - sunshine, wind or tidal energy.

I really don't agree with that. On the surface it's not incorrect, 
but you're making the same mistake Justus von Liebig made all those 
years ago, that he came to regret so deeply, and which we'll still be 
paying for in generations to come.

"Extraction" is not the right concept, you just can't start from 
there. And it's NOT like other renewable resources - sunshine, wind 
or tidal energy are not alive, you can't abuse them or destroy them 
(though who knows, maybe we could!). They're merely physical, 
mechanical, and that's just what soil isn't. Everyone who understands 
soil sees it as a living thing, not just stuff - not just a matter of 
chemicals, it doesn't work that way, and forcing it to do so destroys 
it. One of the best books on the subject, by one of the best 
practitioners, Eve Balfour, is called "The Living Soil", all the good 
writers on the subject agree with that. Long ago I read a long 
article about an American farmer who belonged to a school that worked 
with focusing the energies of the farm, and even he saw the soil as a 
living thing. Driving his tractor over his soil he kept repeating to 
himself: "Alive! Alive!" (I do like that image!) And his soil was 
very alive. In fact, though his approach differed, his techniques 
were those of a good organic farmer, and his soil was in what used to 
be called "good heart". That's a good way of putting it. You don't 
say that sunshine or wind are "in good heart".

I'll put the rest of that message back again, but meanwhile there's this:

"Sow a piece of land with a good pasture mixture and then divide it 
in two with a fence. Graze one half heavily and repeatedly with 
cattle, mow the other half as necessary and leave the mowings there 
in place to decay back into the soil. On the grazed half, you've 
removed the crop (several times) and taken away a large yield of milk 
and beef. On the other half you've removed nothing. Plough up both 
halves and plant a grain crop, or any crop. Which half has the bigger 
and better yield? The grazed half, by far. "Ley Farming" explains why 
"grass is the most important crop" and how to manage grass leys. Leys 
are temporary pastures in a rotation, and provide more than enough 
fertility for the succeeding crops: working together, grass and 
grazing animals turn the land into a huge living compost pile."

That kind of "extraction", of good profits in milk and beef, doesn't 
extract, it invests, actually supplying the inputs needed for the 
next four or five years of heavy crops. Try getting a bit of sunshine 
or a stiff breeze to do that for you. Not magic, just biology, mainly 
the biology of the 30 billion-odd living creatures in every gram of 
soil, if it's in good heart. Food is fabricated soil fertility, not 
just an extracted product, and soil fertility is not something you 
buy in a bag. It applies just as much to biofuels as to food 
production.

Best wishes

Keith


>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: [renewable-energy] Reply to David Cardill
>
>>A typically upbeat and inventive answer.
>>
>>Please note that sometimes I am copying topics to more than one group,
>>where I think a different perspective will be additive rather than
>>not.  So, where you see this and it looks ok, maybe you can cc: your
>>answers to those other groups?
>>
>>In this case, the goal was to copy ideas like yours' and others' to
>>the renewable fuels group where a participant seems to have declared
>>that he does not think any hydrocarbon (or alcohol or similar I guess)
>>can be considered a renewable fuel.  To his credit, I think part of
>>his thinking is a concern for soil as a finite resource, not an
>>unworthy topic IMO.
>>
>>MM
>
>Hi MM
>
>Soil is not a finite resource. Farming is not the same as mining, 
>that's why it's called husbandry. Or used to be. A soil community is 
>effectively immortal. It can be killed though, and it can be wasted 
>too. Much of what's called "farming" today is more of a mining 
>operation than husbandry - fertility extraction. "Replacing" what's 
>allegedly removed in chemical form - NPK - is just as likely to 
>wreck the soil as maintain it. Treating you that way would probably 
>wreck you too - no way to treat a living creature, there's more to 
>biology than chemistry.
>
>The 1999 report on the University of Wisconsin-Madison's ongoing 
>37-year project monitoring the effects of nitrogen fertilisers in 
>the US concluded that agriculture's continuing overapplication of 
>nitrogen fertilizers is causing irreparable damage to the soil. It 
>said US farms have "a 50% applied nitrogen efficiency rate" -- only 
>half the nitrogen applied to the soil is actually used

[biofuel] Re: Soil is not a finite resource

[tomasjkn]

Hi,
yup , soil is not a finite resource;
we should rather say - it is a finite resource _stream_.
(meaning - finite resource amount available for extraction
on each year cycle).
Much like other renewable resources - sunshine, wind or tidal energy.



> >
> >Hi MM
> >
> >Soil is not a finite resource. Farming is not the same as mining, 
> >that's why it's called husbandry. Or used to be. A soil community is 

> >Keith




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Re: [biofuel] SVO automatic switch

[Martin Klingensmith]

Austen wrote:
> Has anybody developed or found a thermostat type device that would 
> work to install on the fuel line for the SVO conversion that at say 
> 60 C would automatically switch over to SVO, making this conversion 
> more efficient and less driver involved?  I would then wire an over 
> ride switch into the cab.  Any thoughts?
> 
> thanks,
> austen

Hi austen,
I believe there is not much of a market for it because the people who 
run SVO currently have the desire to have control over what's going on. 
Consider it a hobby. It would be a very easy control system.


-- 
--
Martin Klingensmith
http://infoarchive.net/
http://nnytech.net/


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[biofuel] Re: looking for oil press and advice for a mobil biodiesel facility

[Keith Addison]

Hello Robert, Carlos

>Can't give much advice re. mobil biodiesel facility or oil press
>capacities, Although I suspect that it would be a lot easier to to
>design a "small..facility" in a fixed location and bring the pressed
>oil to it, but maybe you are only talking about using a mobile oil
>press powerd by a tractor or a diesel engine.

There was a long and interesting discussion about this on the list 
some time ago. You can find it in the archives. I don't think it's 
possible to say which would be easier, it depends on a lot of things. 
In France, for instance, it was common for mobile distilleries to do 
the distillation work, plying their way among the vineyards. The 
advantages and disadvantages vs a series of localised processing 
centres aren't too easy to pin down.

>Whatever the case, take a look at www.oilpress.com for a wide range
>of presses maybe they have agents in your area. If not they have an
>agent in New York tel 914-368-2532 fax 9143682533. Also try Better
>World workshop for a range of ram presses. Tel 8024568993. Hope these
>Numbers etc(unchecked and straight out of Tickells book) are still
>valid.

Tickell's book! Arghhh! Please see:

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/31729/

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/29919/

Please also see:

Oilseed presses
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress

Including some build-your-owns, and lots of details in the 
Folkecenter link near the end of section.

There are also screw press blueprints and construction details here:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/Butterfield/butterfield1.html

Meanwhile this arrived in my in-box yesterday:

>We are a Small Scale Industrial unit engaged in the manufacture of 
>Oil Expellers of different sizes and its allied machinery of all our 
>engineering products "Rajkumar"(super Deluxe Steel Body)Expeller 4- 
>Bolts is the known prestigious product which enjoy the reputation of 
>being the smallest,viable and successful, economical oil extraction 
>machine, the first of its type manufactured in India. Our 
>Website-www.rajkumaragromachinery.com
>
>The installation cost of this product is very economical.The product 
>is getting very popular in Central & South India at the village 
>level,where there is substantial area under the oilseeds. Our 
>machines meets the twin objectives of promoting rural welfare and 
>development of Rural economy. Whereever Rajkumar Expellers have been 
>installed it has promoted rural self sufficiency in respect of pure 
>Edible oil and oil cake. Our products are well suitable for 
>extraction of oil from Tree Borne Non Edible oil seeds,and provides 
>a suitable outlet for their utilization. Our products have 
>indirectly promoted Soap making cottage industries. We also 
>manufacture bigger size expellers which are ideally suited for doing 
>job works and oil business for which filter press will be a main 
>Requirement.

Best wishes

Keith



>Robert.
>
>
>--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "carlosanido" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > We are a team of researchers in the public University in Montevideo
> > (uruguay, southamerica), with a project to design a small mobile
> > facility for a dozen farmers. We know there are yet several
>solutions
> > to the described situation but it must be adapted to local
>conditions,
> > with the goal of offering an alternative to local groups in the
> > country and develop biofuels use.
> >
> > Our biofuels groups works in this since 1998,  with some modest
> > achievements to promote alternative uses as fuel, solvent
> > (biodegradable for chemical farm inputs), additive to dinodiesel. We
> > work know also with bioalcohol from farm wastes but it is another
> > thing,  let this aside  know, our main concern now is biodiesel
> >
> >
> > We intend to do so with sunflower as a second crop with no
> > expectations of optimal yield
> >
> > The questions is: Did any know about oil presses, design or ones to
> > sell  cheaper, for processing 200 litres by batch and process about
> > 80-100 kilos an hour? what is better,   mechanical or hidraulic?
> >
> > Advices are well received,  thanks at lot in advance for any posted
> > counseling.
> > best wishes
> >
> > Carlos Anido, eng. and prof.



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Re: [biofuel] Why is the pH of pure water 7.0 ??

[Ken Provost]

on 8/8/04 6:29 AM, Guag Meister at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hi all list members ;
> 
> While we are on the subject of pH,  can anyone give me
> a reasonable explanation as to why the pH of pure
> water is 7.0??  And I don't mean because it is in the
> middle of the range.
> 

pH is the negative logarithm of hydrogen ion
concentration. Pure water exists mostly as H2O,
but a very small amount of it (approx. one part
in 10 million) dissociates into a hydroxide ion
OH- and a hydrogen ion H+. If you multiply the
H+ concentration and the OH- concentration in an
aqueous solution, the product is a constant, called
the "dissociation constant", which for water has a
value of about 10 ^ -14. So pure water has an OH-
conc. of 10 ^ -7 and also an H+ conc. of 10 ^ -7.
Since the negative log of 10 ^ -7 is 7, it's called
pH7. OK so far?

Here's the interesting part --  if you add H+ (acid)
to an aqueous solution, it will combine with OH-
(making water) as required to keep the product of OH-
and H+ concentrations at a constant 10 ^ -14. At pH6,
for example, H+ is 10 ^ -6 and OH- is 10 ^ -8.
Similarly, adding OH- (base) will cause some of the
H+ to be scarfed up. At pH9, the OH- concentration
is 10 ^ -5 (100X its value in pure water), driving
the H+ concentration down to 10 ^ -9.


-K




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[biofuel] Re: looking for oil press and advice for a mobil biodiesel facility

[rjthedj20_uk]

Can't give much advice re. mobil biodiesel facility or oil press  
capacities, Although I suspect that it would be a lot easier to to 
design a "small..facility" in a fixed location and bring the pressed 
oil to it, but maybe you are only talking about using a mobile oil 
press powerd by a tractor or a diesel engine.

Whatever the case, take a look at www.oilpress.com for a wide range 
of presses maybe they have agents in your area. If not they have an 
agent in New York tel 914-368-2532 fax 9143682533. Also try Better 
World workshop for a range of ram presses. Tel 8024568993. Hope these 
Numbers etc(unchecked and straight out of Tickells book) are still 
valid.

Robert.


--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "carlosanido" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> We are a team of researchers in the public University in Montevideo
> (uruguay, southamerica), with a project to design a small mobile
> facility for a dozen farmers. We know there are yet several 
solutions
> to the described situation but it must be adapted to local 
conditions,
> with the goal of offering an alternative to local groups in the
> country and develop biofuels use. 
> 
> Our biofuels groups works in this since 1998,  with some modest
> achievements to promote alternative uses as fuel, solvent
> (biodegradable for chemical farm inputs), additive to dinodiesel. We
> work know also with bioalcohol from farm wastes but it is another
> thing,  let this aside  know, our main concern now is biodiesel
> 
> 
> We intend to do so with sunflower as a second crop with no
> expectations of optimal yield
> 
> The questions is: Did any know about oil presses, design or ones to
> sell  cheaper, for processing 200 litres by batch and process about
> 80-100 kilos an hour? what is better,   mechanical or hidraulic?
> 
> Advices are well received,  thanks at lot in advance for any posted
> counseling.
> best wishes
> 
> Carlos Anido, eng. and prof.




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Re: [biofuel] Adjusting PH Meters

[Keith Addison]

Hello Peter, L.

Nice reply, thankyou.

This might be interesting:

Technical Tips on pH -- useful how-to's on pH and pH measurement:
http://www.eutechinst.com/tech-tips.htm

From:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html
Biofuels supplies and suppliers > pH testing

Best wishes

Keith



>Hi L ;
>
>pH meters go out of calibration VERY easily.  The bulb
>which senses the pH is very delicate.  It can be
>easily affected by strong acids or bases, particularly
>if these solutions are allowed to dry on the bulb.
>Long periods of exposure to air (in other words,
>drying out) is not a good thing either for the bulb.
>
>More expensive meters have calibration buttons to
>compensate for this.  With these better meters, you
>buy some calibrated solutions and then regularly
>adjust the meter to read the correct value.
>
>If you are using a cheap meter which does not have
>calibration, here are some tips  for longest life :
>
>1) These cheap meters are not designed for strong
>acids and bases, so don't use in strong acids or
>bases.
>2) Rinse the bulb well with neutral water after every
>reading.
>3) When not in use, store in a manner such that the
>bulb is in a pH 7.0 buffer solution. This can be
>readily purchased from a lab supply company, and not
>expensive.
>4) Check calibration with pH standard solutions.  If
>your meter is off a little, you can mentally
>compensate, but this is not a true calibration.  To do
>a true calibration you need two points to establish
>slope and offset.
>
>Hope this helps..
>
>Peter G.
>Thailand
>
>
>--- bioveging <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > My PH meter seems to be out of whack. Does this
> > happen on any kind
> > of regular basis?
> > The "new" WVO I have is clearly better than the
> > other lot I did and
> > it is titrating even worse than the 10gr/liter batch
> > and I do not
> > think this is possible so I acquired some PH
> > solution from the
> > aquarium store (one a 7 and another one a 10) and
> > haven't tested
> > them yet, although I was wondering if anyone else
> > has had trouble
> > with PH meters going out of sink.
> > I checked two seperate lots of WVO, both better than
> > the sludge I
> > did my 20 liter with, and they BOTH titrated higher
> > than 10gr/liter
> > so something is amiss I am sure.
> > I plan on checking my PH meter ASAP and will post
> > any results, but
> > in the mean time any comments?
> >
> > L.



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[biofuel] Why is the pH of pure water 7.0 ??

[Guag Meister]

Hi all list members ;

While we are on the subject of pH,  can anyone give me
a reasonable explanation as to why the pH of pure
water is 7.0??  And I don't mean because it is in the
middle of the range.

Peter G.
Thailand

--- bioveging <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> And THAT is one of great benefits of this list, the
> mountainous 
> combined experience of it's members !
> Thank you very much for your answer as it helps me a
> great deal 
> knowing that I was not having a "twilight zone"
> moment with my PH 
> meter. Yes, mine does have the little adjustment
> knobs and I have 
> purchased two seperate solutions, one a PH-7 and the
> other a PH-10 
> and will be doing the calibration today so I can
> properly titrate my 
> WVO for the next batch.
> 
> L.
> 
> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Guag Meister
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > Hi L ;
> > 
> > pH meters go out of calibration VERY easily.  The
> bulb
> > which senses the pH is very delicate.  It can be
> > easily affected by strong acids or bases,
> particularly
> > if these solutions are allowed to dry on the bulb.
> 
> > Long periods of exposure to air (in other words,
> > drying out) is not a good thing either for the
> bulb.
> > 
> > More expensive meters have calibration buttons to
> > compensate for this.  With these better meters,
> you
> > buy some calibrated solutions and then regularly
> > adjust the meter to read the correct value.
> > 
> > If you are using a cheap meter which does not have
> > calibration, here are some tips  for longest life
> :
> > 
> > 1) These cheap meters are not designed for strong
> > acids and bases, so don't use in strong acids or
> > bases.
> > 2) Rinse the bulb well with neutral water after
> every
> > reading.
> > 3) When not in use, store in a manner such that
> the
> > bulb is in a pH 7.0 buffer solution. This can be
> > readily purchased from a lab supply company, and
> not
> > expensive. 
> > 4) Check calibration with pH standard solutions. 
> If
> > your meter is off a little, you can mentally
> > compensate, but this is not a true calibration. 
> To do
> > a true calibration you need two points to
> establish
> > slope and offset.
> > 
> > Hope this helps..
> > 
> > Peter G.
> > Thailand
> > 
> > 
> > --- bioveging <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > My PH meter seems to be out of whack. Does this
> > > happen on any kind 
> > > of regular basis?
> > > The "new" WVO I have is clearly better than the
> > > other lot I did and 
> > > it is titrating even worse than the 10gr/liter
> batch
> > > and I do not 
> > > think this is possible so I acquired some PH
> > > solution from the 
> > > aquarium store (one a 7 and another one a 10)
> and
> > > haven't tested 
> > > them yet, although I was wondering if anyone
> else
> > > has had trouble 
> > > with PH meters going out of sink.
> > > I checked two seperate lots of WVO, both better
> than
> > > the sludge I 
> > > did my 20 liter with, and they BOTH titrated
> higher
> > > than 10gr/liter 
> > > so something is amiss I am sure.
> > > I plan on checking my PH meter ASAP and will
> post
> > > any results, but 
> > > in the mean time any comments?
> > > 
> > > L.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > __
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other
> providers!
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> 
> 
> 




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[biofuel] Re: Adjusting PH Meters

[bioveging]

And THAT is one of great benefits of this list, the mountainous 
combined experience of it's members !
Thank you very much for your answer as it helps me a great deal 
knowing that I was not having a "twilight zone" moment with my PH 
meter. Yes, mine does have the little adjustment knobs and I have 
purchased two seperate solutions, one a PH-7 and the other a PH-10 
and will be doing the calibration today so I can properly titrate my 
WVO for the next batch.

L.

--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Guag Meister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Hi L ;
> 
> pH meters go out of calibration VERY easily.  The bulb
> which senses the pH is very delicate.  It can be
> easily affected by strong acids or bases, particularly
> if these solutions are allowed to dry on the bulb. 
> Long periods of exposure to air (in other words,
> drying out) is not a good thing either for the bulb.
> 
> More expensive meters have calibration buttons to
> compensate for this.  With these better meters, you
> buy some calibrated solutions and then regularly
> adjust the meter to read the correct value.
> 
> If you are using a cheap meter which does not have
> calibration, here are some tips  for longest life :
> 
> 1) These cheap meters are not designed for strong
> acids and bases, so don't use in strong acids or
> bases.
> 2) Rinse the bulb well with neutral water after every
> reading.
> 3) When not in use, store in a manner such that the
> bulb is in a pH 7.0 buffer solution. This can be
> readily purchased from a lab supply company, and not
> expensive. 
> 4) Check calibration with pH standard solutions.  If
> your meter is off a little, you can mentally
> compensate, but this is not a true calibration.  To do
> a true calibration you need two points to establish
> slope and offset.
> 
> Hope this helps..
> 
> Peter G.
> Thailand
> 
> 
> --- bioveging <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > My PH meter seems to be out of whack. Does this
> > happen on any kind 
> > of regular basis?
> > The "new" WVO I have is clearly better than the
> > other lot I did and 
> > it is titrating even worse than the 10gr/liter batch
> > and I do not 
> > think this is possible so I acquired some PH
> > solution from the 
> > aquarium store (one a 7 and another one a 10) and
> > haven't tested 
> > them yet, although I was wondering if anyone else
> > has had trouble 
> > with PH meters going out of sink.
> > I checked two seperate lots of WVO, both better than
> > the sludge I 
> > did my 20 liter with, and they BOTH titrated higher
> > than 10gr/liter 
> > so something is amiss I am sure.
> > I plan on checking my PH meter ASAP and will post
> > any results, but 
> > in the mean time any comments?
> > 
> > L.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> __
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Re: [biofuel] Can biofuels substitute to oil on a large scale ?

[Hakan Falk]

Robert,

Apart from that the statement about occupying of French land is not 
correct, it would be positive even if it was. Considering that more than 
75% of the current energy use is waste, compared with energy efficient use, 
France would only need 25% of the land to substitute oil. It is less than 
what currently is put into unused land because of more efficient 
agricultural methods. Even if you need some more land for more sustainable 
agricultural practices, France have more than enough land to supply its 
real energy needs.

Hakan


At 01:56 08/08/2004, you wrote:
>Jerome Mathevet wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Tonight there was a programme on air on a french radio station where
> > petro-experts debated about the rise of the price of oil, etc... Some
> > people attending the programme could give a call and ask a question or
> > give an opinion. The question of biofuels was brought about this way and
> > the experts shrugged off this alternative and said all arable surfaces
> > (in France) had to be converted to growing plants like rapeseed, etc...
> > to completely substitute to petrol. I read this assertion many times and
> > have no idea if this right or not. What do you guys think about this ?
> > (France has a mean population density of 120 inhab/km2).
>
>   It's the wrong question.  If biofuels are to become part of an
>overall solution to energy problems, the very first thing that MUST
>happen is that we must become more efficient in our energy usage.
>This will involve rethinking the way we use energy, build homes and
>cities, the way we farm in "advanced" nations, and many other allied
>issues.  It's not a problem peculiar to France.
>
>   If we look at the current energy use paradigm, merely substituting
>fossil fuels for biofuels simply cannot be done.  In that sense, the
>"experts" are correct.  However, the basic assumption that energy use
>patterns must continue as they are currently being practiced
>perpetuates waste, greed, corruption, misery, pollution, a
>deterioration of human health and a lowered quality of life for all
>but the wealthiest among us.  What must change first, is the paradigm
>in which we view the problem.  Think local, small scale and high
>efficiency for real solutions.
>
>   This is not an issue that demands a simple, "one size fits all"
>answer.  We have discussed this many times, and I'm confident you will
>find a wealth of information in the archives.
>
>robert luis rabello
>"The Edge of Justice"
>Adventure for Your Mind
>http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782>




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Re: [biofuel] Adjusting PH Meters

[Guag Meister]

Hi L ;

pH meters go out of calibration VERY easily.  The bulb
which senses the pH is very delicate.  It can be
easily affected by strong acids or bases, particularly
if these solutions are allowed to dry on the bulb. 
Long periods of exposure to air (in other words,
drying out) is not a good thing either for the bulb.

More expensive meters have calibration buttons to
compensate for this.  With these better meters, you
buy some calibrated solutions and then regularly
adjust the meter to read the correct value.

If you are using a cheap meter which does not have
calibration, here are some tips  for longest life :

1) These cheap meters are not designed for strong
acids and bases, so don't use in strong acids or
bases.
2) Rinse the bulb well with neutral water after every
reading.
3) When not in use, store in a manner such that the
bulb is in a pH 7.0 buffer solution. This can be
readily purchased from a lab supply company, and not
expensive. 
4) Check calibration with pH standard solutions.  If
your meter is off a little, you can mentally
compensate, but this is not a true calibration.  To do
a true calibration you need two points to establish
slope and offset.

Hope this helps..

Peter G.
Thailand


--- bioveging <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> My PH meter seems to be out of whack. Does this
> happen on any kind 
> of regular basis?
> The "new" WVO I have is clearly better than the
> other lot I did and 
> it is titrating even worse than the 10gr/liter batch
> and I do not 
> think this is possible so I acquired some PH
> solution from the 
> aquarium store (one a 7 and another one a 10) and
> haven't tested 
> them yet, although I was wondering if anyone else
> has had trouble 
> with PH meters going out of sink.
> I checked two seperate lots of WVO, both better than
> the sludge I 
> did my 20 liter with, and they BOTH titrated higher
> than 10gr/liter 
> so something is amiss I am sure.
> I plan on checking my PH meter ASAP and will post
> any results, but 
> in the mean time any comments?
> 
> L.
> 
> 
> 




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[biofuel] Follow up to wash pump

[bioveging]

OK, I went ahead and attached a drill-pump to the wash tank 
apparatus and will be using it as soon as I can get my first full 
batch processed (80 liters). I already have one hooked up to the 
drain of the Sean Park's Standpipe design 
http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=333) on 
the BD drain side opposite the one for the washing and water drain 
side and will giving that a go also as soon as the 80 liter batch is 
ready to process.
I figure that spending $10.00 on a drill pump and testing it out for 
this application is far better than spending $100.00 for a pump (if 
I can FIND one) that may or may not do what I want and at $10.00 I 
can afford to have one or two or three burn out, not so with the 
$100.00 type.
Drill-pumps may not be any worth from WVO pumpping, but the lighter 
BD and/or water/BD mix should not cause any breakdown problems 
although that is still a theory that needs testing and proving.
I'll post what happens, good or bad.

L.




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[biofuel] Adjusting PH Meters

[bioveging]

My PH meter seems to be out of whack. Does this happen on any kind 
of regular basis?
The "new" WVO I have is clearly better than the other lot I did and 
it is titrating even worse than the 10gr/liter batch and I do not 
think this is possible so I acquired some PH solution from the 
aquarium store (one a 7 and another one a 10) and haven't tested 
them yet, although I was wondering if anyone else has had trouble 
with PH meters going out of sink.
I checked two seperate lots of WVO, both better than the sludge I 
did my 20 liter with, and they BOTH titrated higher than 10gr/liter 
so something is amiss I am sure.
I plan on checking my PH meter ASAP and will post any results, but 
in the mean time any comments?

L.




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Re: [biofuel] Can biofuels substitute to oil on a large scale ?

[Ken Provost]

on 8/7/04 4:56 PM, robert luis rabello at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


> If we look at the current energy use paradigm, merely
> substituting fossil fuels for biofuels simply cannot
> be done.  In that sense, the "experts" are correct.

> .What must change first, is the paradigm in which
> we view the problem.  Think local, small scale and high
> efficiency for real solutions.


Absolutely  In addition, the entire GROWTH approach
has to be repudiated. Population, profits, land use,
emissions, etc -- ALL these things must achieve some
stable level (much lower than present) and then must
STAY THERE, in order to be truly sustainable. This whole
concept of stability is regarded as STAGNATION by the
current paradigm, and therefore can never be permitted.

-K  




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[biofuel] From Sludge Oil to BD

[bioveging]

Well, I have completed my first batch other than a small test batch. 
It was done with horrible oil, titrated to 10gr/liter and the batch 
started life as a 20 liter batch and is now about a 15-16 liter 
batch, maybe a little less. Loads of "by-product" which I will turn 
into a degreasing soap, I hope.
After washing and allowing to settle a pumped it through a couple of 
filters and it is now "drying" until the next time I need to fuel 
the Benz, at which point in it goes.
The tank used is the one I have set up as a pre-heat tank with an 
immersion heater welded into the side of it and I did the methoxide 
mix in an out-of-doors concept (as I didn't have a cover for it) 
using a drill and paint stirrer and then after draining the 
glycerine I then washed it using the same stirrer and about 30% 
water to BD ratio.
The next batch will be an 80 liter batch using my newly built 
reactor/wash tank unit and this one is 100% closed (except for the 
wash tank)to fumes escaping and therefore much safer than the open 
can concept.
Had I not been able to do the methoxide mix literally outside then I 
would not have done it until able to securely close off the fume 
potential, nor do I foresee doing it that way again as a spark from 
the drill motor and, well, 

L.




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Re: [biofuel] High altitude diesel issues emissions

[Greg Harbican]

Turbocharging will cause steeper emissions requirements ( even less soot 
allowable ).   All I have is a naturally aspirated engine, putting a turbo on 
it, will cost almost as much as the Land Cruiser itself, and I don't have any 
near that kind of money.   The cost to gain ratio is too high,  the turbo's for 
the engine would not give all that big a difference, in the horsepower, only an 
effective increase of 15-25 HP or so. 


Funny thing, last year, it didn't have a problem at all, passing emissions.


The diesel emissions around here are geared for the larger engines or newer 
engines with higher HP, that can handle the altitude.

Greg H.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Derek Sceats 
  To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 10:41
  Subject: RE: [biofuel] High altitude diesel issues emissions


  Have you taken steps to improve the intake system?  Is your engine
  turbocharged (preferably with an intercooler)?  This would help get more air
  into the system.  Just my 2 cents worth.
  Derek

  -Original Message-
  From: Greg Harbican [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:20 PM
  To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [biofuel] High altatude diesel issues emmisions



  One of the problems I have is I have too much soot in the emissions and
  still retaining the horsepower of my Land Cruiser.  The issue seams to be
  with the lack of O2 at the higher altitude, so increasing the amount of fuel
  to the injectors would not solve the problems ( in fact it would make my
  mileage worse ).

  Would leaving the some of methanol in or adding more help, since it is one
  of the additives that increase the O2 content of the fuel ( so I have
  heard )?

  I was also wondering if it would help in the winter, reducing the amount
  gelling or otherwise make the fuel easier to ignite in the cold?

  Greg H.

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Re: [biofuel] Can biofuels substitute to oil on a large scale ?

[baronvolsung]

Most of the debunking for biofules that I have seen never state any facts, or 
serious research reports, which hints that they are phony or misleading.   
Biofeuls have one major advantage over oil, they allow us to decentralize 
biofuel energy production in the USA and world wide, and they also allow us to 
transfer the profits and jobs from the Middle East to the USA and world wide 
wherever the crops are grown to make us more self sufficient locally.  It seems 
hard 
to believe the Europe would make a thirty or more year commitment to biofuels 
unless they knew it would work, so it most likely will work. 

Baron Von Volsung, http://www.rhfweb.com/baron";>www.rhfweb.com\baron, Email: http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html";>www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html
President Thomas D. Clark, Email: http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html";>www.rhfweb.com\emailform.html, 
Personal Web Page: http://www.rhfweb.com/personal";>www.rhfweb.com\personal
New Age Production's Inc., http://www.rhfweb.com/newage";>www.rhfweb.com\newage
Star Haven Community Services, at http://www.rhfweb.com/sh";>www.rhfweb.com\sh.
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at http://www.rhfweb.com/";>www.rhfweb.com

Making a difference one person at a time
Get informed. Inform others.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[biofuel] Re: 2 stage method questions

[bioveging]

The train of though is: if you are going to be processing all the 
oil from your combined 10 liter lots then, yes, blend and then 
titrate.
Can't help you too much on the dense white stuff except that it 
sounds like beef tallow and tallow is known for having a higher gel 
temp than other types of BD, so if you can get the oil minus the 
tallow that would be better, IMHO.

L.

--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Teoman Naskali" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry, just trying to avoid purchansing titration equipment. And 
get a
> good unerstanding of the processes before I start anything.
> 
>  I just got access to a highschool lab, if I bring my own 
chemicals and
> wash after I have used the equipment. 
> 
> I also had bought some isopropanol (%99 pure) with the phosphoric 
acid.
> 
> Can and should I titrate larger quatities of wvo, should I mix 
them??
> Say I collect 10L each from three different sources, can I mix 
them and
> then titrate? Or do I have to titrate them separately? 
> 
> What about the denser white fat at the bottom?
> 
> Can I collect say one ton of wvo and then titrate it?




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Re: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch

[Appal Energy]

Gregg,

Shouldn't take but a minute at most for the separation to occur. Ten to
fifteen minutes gives the impression that there were large amounts of soap
present and/or the reaction was incomplete.

Reprocessing both the acid and base step wouldn't net you anything, as any
of the FFAs that may have remained after the acid stage are already
converted to soap.

It's pretty important to give enough dwell time and apply enough
heat/agitation in the acid stage in order to convert as many FFAs to esters
as possible. Those measures are what make the reduced amounts of caustic
possible on the base side.

As for the source of your feedstock - Long John Silver's - that should make
little to no difference.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message - 
From: "Gregg Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch


> Hi Todd,
>
> Thanks for the advice. I actually was in error regarding the separation
time, it's more like 10 to 15 minutes. Sorry about that, I did not have
enough coffee in my system & I made that error.
>
> As to the washings, the ones in question were only a couple of hours in
duration. The most recent batch only took 4. The first wash was with a
little vinegar in the water which I let go for about 6 hours. The last 3
washings last no less than 24 hours each. I got clear water on the 3rd & ran
a 4th wash just to be certain. No harm in erring on the side of caution.
>
> The current 7 litre batch is questionable, so I would feel better about
reprocessing it, but I'm unsure if it needs a full reprocessing or just the
2nd Stage.
>
> The "Brunette" stock comes from a Long John Silver's near where I work.
The oil / shortening mix is dark amber with a slight tinge of orange & I'm
sure it's heavily used.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Sincerely,
> Gregg



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Re: [biofuel] Can biofuels substitute to oil on a large scale ?

[robert luis rabello]

Jerome Mathevet wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Tonight there was a programme on air on a french radio station where
> petro-experts debated about the rise of the price of oil, etc... Some
> people attending the programme could give a call and ask a question or
> give an opinion. The question of biofuels was brought about this way and
> the experts shrugged off this alternative and said all arable surfaces
> (in France) had to be converted to growing plants like rapeseed, etc...
> to completely substitute to petrol. I read this assertion many times and
> have no idea if this right or not. What do you guys think about this ?
> (France has a mean population density of 120 inhab/km2).

It's the wrong question.  If biofuels are to become part of an 
overall solution to energy problems, the very first thing that MUST 
happen is that we must become more efficient in our energy usage. 
This will involve rethinking the way we use energy, build homes and 
cities, the way we farm in "advanced" nations, and many other allied 
issues.  It's not a problem peculiar to France.

If we look at the current energy use paradigm, merely substituting 
fossil fuels for biofuels simply cannot be done.  In that sense, the 
"experts" are correct.  However, the basic assumption that energy use 
patterns must continue as they are currently being practiced 
perpetuates waste, greed, corruption, misery, pollution, a 
deterioration of human health and a lowered quality of life for all 
but the wealthiest among us.  What must change first, is the paradigm 
in which we view the problem.  Think local, small scale and high 
efficiency for real solutions.

This is not an issue that demands a simple, "one size fits all" 
answer.  We have discussed this many times, and I'm confident you will 
find a wealth of information in the archives.

robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782>




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