[Biofuel] pH ?? and Gravity ???
Hello all, another couple of quick questions. pH should be around 7.0 give or take a couple of points right??? and what should the gravity og the product be?? i wanna test these batches in a engine but want to make sure i don't blow it up. thanks for all the help vincent vancouver Canada - Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, Bit of a presumption or two there, eh? One that there was an invite and two that if there were that I would care to parlay valuable time for such a distraction. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. I'd prefer to approach it as a gap in communication, aka a misunderstanding. There are far more destructive/debilitating practices out there, accomplished with intent no less, that need to be squashed or quarantined. I'd rather save my energies for those more notable occassions. What is it that the Buddhist monk said? It's not often a person gets the chance to be a human. It's a shame to waste it. Or something rather close to that. We're only given so much time and one existance to expend it. It would be a shame to squander it on those things that yield no fruit.. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert No problem Todd. I gotcha, loud and clear. Even if Ken was 100% correct, I would have worded it a little differently and certainly would not have made presumptions as to what you don't know. That's just an invitation to a contest in which I prefer not to enter. Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, I just want to say that I'm sorry about the misunderstanding and let's move on. These kinds of exchanges can consume an awful lot of time and I think we all have bigger fish to fry. Mike Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, When two people say the same thing, one of them cannot be right and the other wrong. While that may be the reality of politics, that's not reality. Please see my reply to Ken's post. As well, Ken made more than one statement of absolutism. When you state that he is right, you lend to a perception that all of his statements are correct. Note was made of at least two points of error in two of his conclusions. While his qualifications are correct, as are yours, his declarations of wrongness are in error. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Ken is right. The statement 'colder than normal' means that someone else has a 'hotter than normal'. could only be true if the same amount of energy reaches the Earth's surface every day. Changes in the ozone layer changes the amount of energy reaching the Earths surface. The greenhouse effect addresses the Earth's ability to absorb or filter certain wave lengths of light. When you're in front of a large, open flame, you feel the heat radiated from the fire. Hold a pane of glass in front of your face and you will notice that it doesn't feel as hot. That's how I visualize the ozone layer at work. FYI: This isn't an original idea. Someone thought of this comparison long before me. http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=greenhouse+effect+explained+fireplaceei=UTF-8fr=FP-tab-web-tfl=0x=wrt Mike Ken Riznyk wrote: --- Appal Energy wrote: Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much heat per minute, hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. NOT TRUE You statement shows that you do not understand the greenhouse effect. The sun may radiate about the same amount of heat but the earth also radiates heat, the greenhouse gases trap some of that radiation - hence global warming. Global cooling could result from dust or moisture in the atmosphere dissipating some of the sun's radiation. __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
RE: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Thanks Todd. Nice reply P. What is it that the Buddhist monk said? It's not often a person gets the chance to be a human. It's a shame to waste it. Or something rather close to that. We're only given so much time and one existance to expend it. It would be a shame to squander it on those things that yield no fruit.. Todd Swearingen ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] paper chromatography
your news are very interesting, could you please indicate where I can get copy of the method of thin Layer Chromatography for the biodiesel quality analysis ?. Thanks, F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Elizabeth Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 5:28 AM Subject: [Biofuel] paper chromatography I have a student who is studying biodiesel as his chemistry project. We have located a method of thin Layer Chromatography for the quality analysis but he also wants to try paper chromatography. We ahve tried some solvents but they only work for the glycerides layer. Does anyone have a method that works for paper chromatography. regards Liz Palmer ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] PR Posing as Science in Crop Biotechnology
Hello All, As the GM foods are not labeled, there is no way that their health impacts on the population can be identified after they are released. The same goes for biofuel. It seems to me that we ought to also be aware of GMO biofuel as much as we are aware of GMO food, though there is surprisingly little awareness in this respect. There is no explicit label for GMO foods, and many people who are buying biofuel as a green alternative to petroleum may not realize that GMO biofuel is actually a contribution to the problem and not the solution (to global warming, corporate control, inefficiency, etc. -- you decide). I am grateful that JtF and this list increases awareness of this fact -- community self-reliance is a real value, we do not simply advocate using biofuel just for the sake of using biofuel, but as a means to a more sane ends. - Dave ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] water wash emulsification
hello! thanks again for the wonderful support.! i just did a batch of Bio from a thick paste and solid fats from fast food restaurant.. the reaction came out well , with a little layer of soap on the top is this because the oil has water? or was it a bit too much catalyst? anywyays i scooped the soap on top , and proceeded to water wash the bio when i add water the once clear biodiesel becomes like an emulsification...an d you can't se through it.. how can solve this ? would boiling the biodiesel solve anything? has anybody thrown some not very clear biodiesel in an engine..? what do ou recommend i do with my 10 liter batch of not clear biodiesel...? best and thank you very much!!! anibal ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
7Dear Appal, I must apologize for my post. People say that one of the problems with email is that you click the send button before you have a chance to sit back and cogitate about what you are saying. I certainly should have been more circumsect in my response. My only defense is that there is a lot of misinformation about global warming and people dissing global warming is one of my pet peeves. The most outragous statement about global warming I read in a respected magazine was that there was that in 1513 there was a great amount of global warming and none of the catastrophic events predicted ever happened. No mention was made of what scientific institution monitored temperatures around the globe in 1513, nor how they were able to measure the temperature since the thermometer was not invented until the 18th century. Ken --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, Bit of a presumption or two there, eh? One that there was an invite and two that if there were that I would care to parlay valuable time for such a distraction. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. I'd prefer to approach it as a gap in communication, aka a misunderstanding. There are far more destructive/debilitating practices out there, accomplished with intent no less, that need to be squashed or quarantined. I'd rather save my energies for those more notable occassions. What is it that the Buddhist monk said? It's not often a person gets the chance to be a human. It's a shame to waste it. Or something rather close to that. We're only given so much time and one existance to expend it. It would be a shame to squander it on those things that yield no fruit.. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert No problem Todd. I gotcha, loud and clear. Even if Ken was 100% correct, I would have worded it a little differently and certainly would not have made presumptions as to what you don't know. That's just an invitation to a contest in which I prefer not to enter. Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, I just want to say that I'm sorry about the misunderstanding and let's move on. These kinds of exchanges can consume an awful lot of time and I think we all have bigger fish to fry. Mike Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, When two people say the same thing, one of them cannot be right and the other wrong. While that may be the reality of politics, that's not reality. Please see my reply to Ken's post. As well, Ken made more than one statement of absolutism. When you state that he is right, you lend to a perception that all of his statements are correct. Note was made of at least two points of error in two of his conclusions. While his qualifications are correct, as are yours, his declarations of wrongness are in error. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Ken is right. The statement 'colder than normal' means that someone else has a 'hotter than normal'. could only be true if the same amount of energy reaches the Earth's surface every day. Changes in the ozone layer changes the amount of energy reaching the Earths surface. The greenhouse effect addresses the Earth's ability to absorb or filter certain wave lengths of light. When you're in front of a large, open flame, you feel the heat radiated from the fire. Hold a pane of glass in front of your face and you will notice that it doesn't feel as hot. That's how I visualize the ozone layer at work. FYI: This isn't an original idea. Someone thought of this comparison long before me. http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=greenhouse+effect+explained+fireplaceei=UTF-8fr=FP-tab-web-tfl=0x=wrt Mike Ken Riznyk wrote: --- Appal Energy wrote: Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much heat per minute, hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. NOT TRUE You statement shows that you do not understand the greenhouse effect. The sun may radiate about the same amount of heat but the earth also radiates heat, the greenhouse gases trap some of that radiation - hence global warming. Global cooling could result from dust or moisture in the atmosphere dissipating some of the sun's radiation. __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
the thermometer was not invented until the 18th century. Which means that in lieu of hardware they were using their tuckas to determine the temp to bake bread and warm formula? No argument with me on global warming. Here's a snip from a letter to a friend this evening. To put it in context, the nights here this past week have been better than asum. A large lunar mass offering miles of vis off crusted snow in normally dark woods, with erie reverbs of reflected light off wispy alto-cirrus haze and every planet and constellation in the sky vying for a seat in the show. I have this vision of the gulf stream conveyor belt coming to a halt, polar bears migrating to the mainland, stepping out from an underground bunker to go mining frozen trees for heat and construction under one-hundred feet of ice. UPS will deliver the grow lights to keep the veggies alive via dog sled. Hopefully they're still filling orders for new lamps and fixtures in Belize via satelite uplink. We'll use the one hundred foot drop of melted water surrounding the chimney to generate electricity for the computer. I hear LED's going to become the rage. Wonder if you can grow carrots under it? I wonder what the thermography's going to look like in different places around the world if the conveyor belt stops. Sure would put a chink in Shrub's expectations (to be read delusions) of economic parity after his recent partying on America's credit card. But then again, you can bank on such bastards having reserved a ring-side seat on some sand-dune-soon-to-be-lakefront for themselves at the taxpayer's expense. Let's just hope that the service industry there thinks as little of them as they did at home. Todd Swearingen Post Script: Ooops. According to the radical right, I'm supposed to get over not only what's happened contemporarily and historically, but what has yet to happen. My apologies for being so short sighted and having no genetic disposition equivalent to a door mat. Not! - Original Message - From: Ken Riznyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert 7Dear Appal, I must apologize for my post. People say that one of the problems with email is that you click the send button before you have a chance to sit back and cogitate about what you are saying. I certainly should have been more circumsect in my response. My only defense is that there is a lot of misinformation about global warming and people dissing global warming is one of my pet peeves. The most outragous statement about global warming I read in a respected magazine was that there was that in 1513 there was a great amount of global warming and none of the catastrophic events predicted ever happened. No mention was made of what scientific institution monitored temperatures around the globe in 1513, nor how they were able to measure the temperature since the thermometer was not invented until the 18th century. Ken --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, Bit of a presumption or two there, eh? One that there was an invite and two that if there were that I would care to parlay valuable time for such a distraction. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. I'd prefer to approach it as a gap in communication, aka a misunderstanding. There are far more destructive/debilitating practices out there, accomplished with intent no less, that need to be squashed or quarantined. I'd rather save my energies for those more notable occassions. What is it that the Buddhist monk said? It's not often a person gets the chance to be a human. It's a shame to waste it. Or something rather close to that. We're only given so much time and one existance to expend it. It would be a shame to squander it on those things that yield no fruit.. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert No problem Todd. I gotcha, loud and clear. Even if Ken was 100% correct, I would have worded it a little differently and certainly would not have made presumptions as to what you don't know. That's just an invitation to a contest in which I prefer not to enter. Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, I just want to say that I'm sorry about the misunderstanding and let's move on. These kinds of exchanges can consume an awful lot of time and I think we all have bigger fish to fry. Mike Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, When two people say the same thing, one of them cannot be right and the other wrong. While that may be the reality of politics, that's not reality. Please see my reply to Ken's post. As well, Ken made more than one
Re: [Biofuel] Baking bread was:Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Todd, I have to take the opportunity to mention the ingenuity that existed before the thermometer. Something that I think that almost all on the list will recognize. We have a friend that have a bakery and he have old traditional wood oven and make old traditional bread, he knows how to do it and is always happy to show this oven. The recipes are old and of course from the time without thermometers. Wood burns at 360 to 400 centigrade, depending on the kind and quality and this is used in the old recipes and the ovens are designed to use this. My friend did not know this, but followed ancient recipes both for the bread and the kind of wood that should be used, his and his wife's (the boss as usual) are famous in the city. If you look at countries that still cook with wood, the selection of what wood to use for certain dishes, is very important for the result. The same as cooking with the dish in wet clay in open fire, it will keep the temperature around 100 centigrade. It is amazing and very interesting what all this traditional ways fit. They where quite smart and sensitive of how nature worked and maybe they would discovered the signs for global warming by weather patters much earlier, as the specialists does. It is only dumb people and politicians with an agenda, who think or want people to think that we are only talking about peak air temperatures in conjunction with global warming. I also understand your sarcasm and admire your patience. I am fed up of explaining and discussing this with people that are ignorant, independent of if it is lack of education or trying to utilize it. It does not take much reading and following of the research to see what we are giving the following generations. Hakan At 06:08 AM 1/29/2005, you wrote: Ken, the thermometer was not invented until the 18th century. Which means that in lieu of hardware they were using their tuckas to determine the temp to bake bread and warm formula? No argument with me on global warming. Here's a snip from a letter to a friend this evening. To put it in context, the nights here this past week have been better than asum. A large lunar mass offering miles of vis off crusted snow in normally dark woods, with erie reverbs of reflected light off wispy alto-cirrus haze and every planet and constellation in the sky vying for a seat in the show. I have this vision of the gulf stream conveyor belt coming to a halt, polar bears migrating to the mainland, stepping out from an underground bunker to go mining frozen trees for heat and construction under one-hundred feet of ice. UPS will deliver the grow lights to keep the veggies alive via dog sled. Hopefully they're still filling orders for new lamps and fixtures in Belize via satelite uplink. We'll use the one hundred foot drop of melted water surrounding the chimney to generate electricity for the computer. I hear LED's going to become the rage. Wonder if you can grow carrots under it? I wonder what the thermography's going to look like in different places around the world if the conveyor belt stops. Sure would put a chink in Shrub's expectations (to be read delusions) of economic parity after his recent partying on America's credit card. But then again, you can bank on such bastards having reserved a ring-side seat on some sand-dune-soon-to-be-lakefront for themselves at the taxpayer's expense. Let's just hope that the service industry there thinks as little of them as they did at home. Todd Swearingen Post Script: Ooops. According to the radical right, I'm supposed to get over not only what's happened contemporarily and historically, but what has yet to happen. My apologies for being so short sighted and having no genetic disposition equivalent to a door mat. Not! - Original Message - From: Ken Riznyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert 7Dear Appal, I must apologize for my post. People say that one of the problems with email is that you click the send button before you have a chance to sit back and cogitate about what you are saying. I certainly should have been more circumsect in my response. My only defense is that there is a lot of misinformation about global warming and people dissing global warming is one of my pet peeves. The most outragous statement about global warming I read in a respected magazine was that there was that in 1513 there was a great amount of global warming and none of the catastrophic events predicted ever happened. No mention was made of what scientific institution monitored temperatures around the globe in 1513, nor how they were able to measure the temperature since the thermometer was not invented until the 18th century. Ken --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, Bit of a
Re: [Biofuel] New bio dieseler
helow Jan Send me your bio data and we will try to brig here to northeast Brasil, very underdeveloped area of Brasil, but with rich biomass research Pannir Selvam On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 09:40:44 +0100, Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Pieter. I live in Sweden, but as I mentioned, I can consider moving overseas. Please address me further on to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] With best regards Jan Warnqvist + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New bio dieseler Where do you live ? Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- Pagandai V Pannirselvam Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN Departamento de Engenharia Qumica - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CT Programa de Ps Graduao em Engenharia Qumica - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitrio CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence : Av Odilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 Capim Macio EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 215-3770 Ramal20 2171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 215-3770 Ramal20 2171557 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global poverty ,WSF and Brazil
BRAZIL AND WORLD SOCIAL FORUM Thank you very much for Keith for bringing here the important event in south as only the north of the world alwayes get importance . Important scientific personalities such as Da Silva ,Mukul Sharma, Several political leaders such as Lula of Brazil , several economic leaders who are devoted and dedicated their life to poor from all over the world are coming together in WSF,world social forum. Keith , this is very good news to know that this event has unexpectedly become a global political and social phenomenon and will be going to spread all the parts of the world as this an real globalization of the wealth for all. The feeling here in Brazil is really looking for the new model of economic , truly challenging US , showing another type of economic model in future political one not the left , or right but the green party We ,Brazilian feel that we can produce enough diesel and food for the most part of the world as we have the largest lands that can be cultivated are in the south , not in the north of G8 , but with G3, the India , Africa and Brazil as the rich sorce of biocombustivel and food for the world. Hence these G3 together is real threat not only the US but also the G8.What is going to be economic war based on the fuel.As G8 will always divide and rule G3, the WSF has the great green future not make the war , but make peace for poor Instead of super market oriented marketing and distribution , what we need is an Ruralization of urban areas in G3 with distributed energy and food based on biofuel The real threat for us in the south is the war , which only the senators and political people of the US , spending huge amount of money promote in the name of threat of fuel and food . Surely the group members of our list need to unite all of the world and make WSF , world social forum, a success. The people who has no food has the same right to destroy the world , not his home as we all are globally linked. Sorry for not posting for the las 2 monts from here , as we had serious virus problems with our computers due to the use of Internet browser monopolised as the only one in the world The thin posting here, as Keith pointed out , I feel is lack of main subject thread for debate and discussion such as biogas ethanol form biomass, Diesel from wastes. etc We need to depend posts on tecnical subjects and new informations. For example,some thread for debate are: The best way to make methane from solid wates, which are complex subject that need integration of two process composting with bioconversion of methane . But conventional composting will not do the job , then enzymatic one is not practical on as Keith used point out the lab to internationall articall only.What is the best way? We also need here new information flow here ,as our list members are really sleeping. In our recent research study in internet that 7 kW flexivel methane gas ,gasoline power cost is very low as 250 US dollars or 800 Brazilian reais.The cheap gasline motor or costlier diesel generator.Which is the best way. We need technical people knowlege brought here in this as this can make debate more useful. Thus inovations in electrical generations dc e ac can make the small cogeneration project with low cost biogas and pre heated used vegetable oil can be made possivel in a small scale.Yet this subject need our list members debate .This can be real way to make small power gweneration for the people , by the people to the people .Let us all make the posting not as thin , but make it as big as possible as we have the big foundation made it poible. We need the corect attuide , the foundation made very strong will surely become much more in the coming days sd Pannir selvam P.V Brazil On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 01:32:31 +0900, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1398409,00.html Guardian Unlimited | The Guardian | Global poverty targeted as 100,000 gather in Brazil Activists join presidents as annual World Social Forum gets under way in Porto Alegre John Vidal in Porto Alegre Wednesday January 26, 2005 The Guardian Elvis, Betu and Renatu live in a rubbish dump. Every day the teenagers take out their wire pushcarts, collect the waste of the southern Brazilian city of Porto Alegre and bring it back to the illegal slum of Chocolatado to sort and then sell on. It's a grim place, made of reclaimed tarpaulins, waste timber, old plastic and metal. None of the shacks have running water or toilets, and most of them are deep in litter. This, then, is the ideal backdrop for the launch today of the World Social Forum, which meets annually to discuss issues affecting developing countries. Begun five years ago specifically to counter the annual meeting of world business
Re: [Biofuel] pH ?? and Gravity ???
- Original Message - From: Vincent zadworny [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biomailinglist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 2:02 PM Subject: [Biofuel] pH ?? and Gravity ??? Hello all, another couple of quick questions. pH should be around 7.0 give or take a couple of points right??? and what should the gravity og the product be?? PH and gravity ? Ak! There is no doubt that your entghusiasm is in the right place, however you are over complicating it. Follow the instructions at JtF on test batches found here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Do the quality test found here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality Wash it properly using the method of your choice. Here is a good starting point: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html (I don't do it like that but for simplicity's sake start here) Once that is done stick it in your engine and go. Simple, voila! and it's done. i wanna test these batches in a engine but want to make sure i don't blow it up. Isn't going to blow up anything, unless you are negligent in handling methanol in the presence of open flame, then kaboom is a distinctive possibility :-). The worst case scenario is that after a couple tank fills your filters will clog up seriously from all the dino gunk being lifted by the biodiesel and they will need changing. In the rare occasion it may be necesssary to change out the fuel lines, however that is an extreme case and doesn't happen often in 80's cars. Luc thanks for all the help vincent vancouver Canada - Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Michael, Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, Bit of a presumption or two there, eh? One that there was an invite and two that if there were that I would care to parlay valuable time for such a distraction. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. I'd prefer to approach it as a gap in communication, aka a misunderstanding. There are far more destructive/debilitating practices out there, accomplished with intent no less, that need to be squashed or quarantined. I'd rather save my energies for those more notable occassions. What is it that the Buddhist monk said? It's not often a person gets the chance to be a human. It's a shame to waste it. Or something rather close to that. She's a nun, not a monk, and this is what she said (from previous): My friend Prema, a Tibetan Buddhist nun, once remarked rather conversationally: It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such an opportunity. I haven't seen Prema for 20 years, but still we're friends and I'm sure we'll meet again. We're only given so much time and one existance to expend it. Prema wouldn't agree with that, neither would I. But I agree with the point you're making. Regards Keith It would be a shame to squander it on those things that yield no fruit.. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert No problem Todd. I gotcha, loud and clear. Even if Ken was 100% correct, I would have worded it a little differently and certainly would not have made presumptions as to what you don't know. That's just an invitation to a contest in which I prefer not to enter. Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, I just want to say that I'm sorry about the misunderstanding and let's move on. These kinds of exchanges can consume an awful lot of time and I think we all have bigger fish to fry. Mike Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, When two people say the same thing, one of them cannot be right and the other wrong. While that may be the reality of politics, that's not reality. Please see my reply to Ken's post. As well, Ken made more than one statement of absolutism. When you state that he is right, you lend to a perception that all of his statements are correct. Note was made of at least two points of error in two of his conclusions. While his qualifications are correct, as are yours, his declarations of wrongness are in error. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Ken is right. The statement 'colder than normal' means that someone else has a 'hotter than normal'. could only be true if the same amount of energy reaches the Earth's surface every day. Changes in the ozone layer changes the amount of energy reaching the Earths surface. The greenhouse effect addresses the Earth's ability to absorb or filter certain wave lengths of light. When you're in front of a large, open flame, you feel the heat radiated from the fire. Hold a pane of glass in front of your face and you will notice that it doesn't feel as hot. That's how I visualize the ozone layer at work. FYI: This isn't an original idea. Someone thought of this comparison long before me. http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=greenhouse+effect+explained+firepl aceei=UTF-8fr=FP-tab-web-tfl=0x=wrt Mike Ken Riznyk wrote: --- Appal Energy wrote: Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much heat per minute, hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. NOT TRUE You statement shows that you do not understand the greenhouse effect. The sun may radiate about the same amount of heat but the earth also radiates heat, the greenhouse gases trap some of that radiation - hence global warming. Global cooling could result from dust or moisture in the atmosphere dissipating some of the sun's radiation. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] PR Posing as Science in Crop Biotechnology
Hello All, As the GM foods are not labeled, there is no way that their health impacts on the population can be identified after they are released. The same goes for biofuel. It seems to me that we ought to also be aware of GMO biofuel as much as we are aware of GMO food, though there is surprisingly little awareness in this respect. There is no explicit label for GMO foods, Not in the US anyway, though surveys have shown that most people favour labelling. and many people who are buying biofuel as a green alternative to petroleum may not realize that GMO biofuel is actually a contribution to the problem and not the solution (to global warming, corporate control, inefficiency, etc. -- you decide). I've said this before: If you just swap fuels instead of changing the entire disaster you'll end up with wall-to-wall industrialized monocrops of GMO soy and canola. Big Biofuels may not turn out to be much better than Big Oil. Silly thing about it is that industrialized monocropping of biofuels crops would be (is) just as fossil-fuel-dependent as industrialized monocropping of anything else is. What's the use of finding a cure for cancer if it gives you a heart attack? But is it really that simple? From a couple of recent messages: Something worth saying though, that I've pointed out here before, is that GM still is a very promising technology, but not in the hands of the likes of Monsanto, as is very obvious. With their slant on things and their history, we don't need any more Brave New Worlds brought to us by the Monsanto's and Dow's of this world any more than we need a 21st Century sponsored by Big Oil. It's to be hoped that the fully justifiable public outcry against Monsanto's antics with GMOs aren't going to permanently discredit the technology in the public eye and put it out of bounds. And: I want a Mother Nature engineered soybean and claim this on my biodiesel for my future clean fuel gas station. Very good! Though, whether non-GMO or not, soy might not be the best choice for an oilseed crop. This is a complicated argument. You could argue the GMO stuff shouldn't be growing at all, but life is seldom ideal and the fact is that huge quantities of GMO crops are being grown in the US and elsewhere. With soy, the oil is something of a by-product, the main product being the seedcake, which is fed to livestock (concentrated factory farms). The oil is stored in the world's biggest tank farm, generally with a massive surplus. It's hard to find any aspect of any of this that you can say anything good about. None of it is sustainable, all of it is abhorrent in various ways. It's all heavily dependent on fossil fuels, and extremely wasteful. But, it happens. Resistance is mounting on many fronts, but it'll go on happening until it ends, and go on producing this noxious stuff that oughtn't to be in the food chain. Maybe burning it in diesel motors is about the best thing you can do with it. You could just as well claim that as a public service if you used GMO oil. There was (?) something of a similar discussion over BSE, Mad Cow Disease: it should never have happened, and would never have happened but for the madness of feeding cattle parts to cattle, vegetarian grazing animals specially adapted to eat grass. But rendering the condemned and slaughtered beasts and making biodiesel from the tallow surely would have been a better solution than landfilling them or incinerating them. I am grateful that JtF and this list increases awareness of this fact -- community self-reliance is a real value, we do not simply advocate using biofuel just for the sake of using biofuel, but as a means to a more sane ends. Right, and thankyou. It's become something of a mantra that simply substituting biofuel for fossil-fuels is no answer - a rational energy future requires great reductions in energy use (waste), great improvements in energy efficiency, and probably most important, decentralisation of supply to the local level, along with the use of all available renewable technologies in combination as the local circumstances demand. Best wishes Keith - Dave ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] water wash emulsification
- Original Message - From: anibal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:08 PM Subject: [Biofuel] water wash emulsification hello! thanks again for the wonderful support.! i just did a batch of Bio from a thick paste and solid fats from fast food restaurant.. the reaction came out well , with a little layer of soap on the top is this because the oil has water? or was it a bit too much catalyst? Maybe incomplete reaction? anywyays i scooped the soap on top , and proceeded to water wash the bio when i add water the once clear biodiesel becomes like an emulsification...an d you can't se through it.. Emulsion is when you get three layers. The murky bio on top, milky water on the bottom and a chicken soup looking stuff in between. Are you saying that the bio went murky ? If so this is normal, you put water in it. Let it settle out for a few hours and then if you only have two layers, bio on top and cloudy water on the bottom with nothing in between wash it again and again until the water at the bottom is clear, remove the bio from the water, let it set over night and see if any more water has sttled out . Use it :-) Luc how can solve this ? would boiling the biodiesel solve anything? has anybody thrown some not very clear biodiesel in an engine..? what do ou recommend i do with my 10 liter batch of not clear biodiesel...? best and thank you very much!!! anibal ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] PR Posing as Science in Crop Biotechnology
Greetings Readers, A question and an opinion from a newbie; What does GMO stand for? The opinion is on recycling - there are huge amounts of waste organics being land filled instead of recycled. May I respectfully suggest that some of you PhD's and entrepreneurs use your resources towards figuring out how to economically recycle more of our waste into energy instead of politicking. Once an activity becomes economically viable it will follow whoever leads into the mainstream. Looks like using used restaurant grease and oils is on the way to stardom. It is used for producing biodiesel and a host of other commercial products. Eh wot? Ed (for Mondays Thursdays-Main Ofc.) | Ed Starr | Star Marketing | 949-496-0050 | FAX 949-388-7828 | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Dana Point, CA, USA (for Tue., Wed. Fri-Home Ofc.) | Ed Starr | Star Marketing | 619-749-9647 | FAX 619-749-9648 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello All, As the GM foods are not labeled, there is no way that their health impacts on the population can be identified after they are released. The same goes for biofuel. It seems to me that we ought to also be aware of GMO biofuel as much as we are aware of GMO food, though there is surprisingly little awareness in this respect. There is no explicit label for GMO foods, Not in the US anyway, though surveys have shown that most people favour labelling. and many people who are buying biofuel as a green alternative to petroleum may not realize that GMO biofuel is actually a contribution to the problem and not the solution (to global warming, corporate control, inefficiency, etc. -- you decide). I've said this before: If you just swap fuels instead of changing the entire disaster you'll end up with wall-to-wall industrialized monocrops of GMO soy and canola. Big Biofuels may not turn out to be much better than Big Oil. Silly thing about it is that industrialized monocropping of biofuels crops would be (is) just as fossil-fuel-dependent as industrialized monocropping of anything else is. What's the use of finding a cure for cancer if it gives you a heart attack? But is it really that simple? From a couple of recent messages: Something worth saying though, that I've pointed out here before, is that GM still is a very promising technology, but not in the hands of the likes of Monsanto, as is very obvious. With their slant on things and their history, we don't need any more Brave New Worlds brought to us by the Monsanto's and Dow's of this world any more than we need a 21st Century sponsored by Big Oil. It's to be hoped that the fully justifiable public outcry against Monsanto's antics with GMOs aren't going to permanently discredit the technology in the public eye and put it out of bounds. And: I want a Mother Nature engineered soybean and claim this on my biodiesel for my future clean fuel gas station. Very good! Though, whether non-GMO or not, soy might not be the best choice for an oilseed crop. This is a complicated argument. You could argue the GMO stuff shouldn't be growing at all, but life is seldom ideal and the fact is that huge quantities of GMO crops are being grown in the US and elsewhere. With soy, the oil is something of a by-product, the main product being the seedcake, which is fed to livestock (concentrated factory farms). The oil is stored in the world's biggest tank farm, generally with a massive surplus. It's hard to find any aspect of any of this that you can say anything good about. None of it is sustainable, all of it is abhorrent in various ways. It's all heavily dependent on fossil fuels, and extremely wasteful. But, it happens. Resistance is mounting on many fronts, but it'll go on happening until it ends, and go on producing this noxious stuff that oughtn't to be in the food chain. Maybe burning it in diesel motors is about the best thing you can do with it. You could just as well claim that as a public service if you used GMO oil. There was (?) something of a similar discussion over BSE, Mad Cow Disease: it should never have happened, and would never have happened but for the madness of feeding cattle parts to cattle, vegetarian grazing animals specially adapted to eat grass. But rendering the condemned and slaughtered beasts and making biodiesel from the tallow surely would have been a better solution than landfilling them or incinerating them. I am grateful that JtF and this list increases awareness of this fact -- community self-reliance is a real value, we do not simply advocate using biofuel just for the sake of using biofuel, but as a means to a more sane ends. Right, and thankyou. It's become something of a mantra that simply substituting biofuel for fossil-fuels is no answer - a rational energy future requires great reductions in energy use (waste), great improvements in energy efficiency, and probably most important, decentralisation of supply to the local level, along with the use of all available renewable
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
It was off the cuff memory from someone Keith's known. My friend Prema, a Tibetan Buddhist nun, once remarked rather conversationally: It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such an opportunity. We should all be so lucky as to have such friends. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Peggy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 7:48 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Thanks Todd. Nice reply P. What is it that the Buddhist monk said? It's not often a person gets the chance to be a human. It's a shame to waste it. Or something rather close to that. We're only given so much time and one existance to expend it. It would be a shame to squander it on those things that yield no fruit.. Todd Swearingen ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Thought you might catch that loose reference. My friend Prema, a Tibetan Buddhist nun, once remarked rather conversationally: It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such an opportunity. I looked high and low for the your previous mention of those words and couldn't find them. Sorry to not have a better filing system in order to quote more accurately, especially when it comes to wisdom of such brevity. It's somewhere in the midst of a 60 gig hard drive. Just can't seem to find it at the moment. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert Hello Todd Michael, Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, Bit of a presumption or two there, eh? One that there was an invite and two that if there were that I would care to parlay valuable time for such a distraction. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. I'd prefer to approach it as a gap in communication, aka a misunderstanding. There are far more destructive/debilitating practices out there, accomplished with intent no less, that need to be squashed or quarantined. I'd rather save my energies for those more notable occassions. What is it that the Buddhist monk said? It's not often a person gets the chance to be a human. It's a shame to waste it. Or something rather close to that. She's a nun, not a monk, and this is what she said (from previous): My friend Prema, a Tibetan Buddhist nun, once remarked rather conversationally: It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such an opportunity. I haven't seen Prema for 20 years, but still we're friends and I'm sure we'll meet again. We're only given so much time and one existance to expend it. Prema wouldn't agree with that, neither would I. But I agree with the point you're making. Regards Keith It would be a shame to squander it on those things that yield no fruit.. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert No problem Todd. I gotcha, loud and clear. Even if Ken was 100% correct, I would have worded it a little differently and certainly would not have made presumptions as to what you don't know. That's just an invitation to a contest in which I prefer not to enter. Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, I just want to say that I'm sorry about the misunderstanding and let's move on. These kinds of exchanges can consume an awful lot of time and I think we all have bigger fish to fry. Mike Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, When two people say the same thing, one of them cannot be right and the other wrong. While that may be the reality of politics, that's not reality. Please see my reply to Ken's post. As well, Ken made more than one statement of absolutism. When you state that he is right, you lend to a perception that all of his statements are correct. Note was made of at least two points of error in two of his conclusions. While his qualifications are correct, as are yours, his declarations of wrongness are in error. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Ken is right. The statement 'colder than normal' means that someone else has a 'hotter than normal'. could only be true if the same amount of energy reaches the Earth's surface every day. Changes in the ozone layer changes the amount of energy reaching the Earths surface. The greenhouse effect addresses the Earth's ability to absorb or filter certain wave lengths of light. When you're in front of a large, open flame, you feel the heat radiated from the fire. Hold a pane of glass in front of your face and you will notice that it doesn't feel as hot. That's how I visualize the ozone layer at work. FYI: This isn't an original idea. Someone thought of this comparison long before me. http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=greenhouse+effect+explained+firepl aceei=UTF-8fr=FP-tab-web-tfl=0x=wrt Mike Ken Riznyk wrote: --- Appal Energy wrote: Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much heat per minute, hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. NOT TRUE You statement shows that you do not understand the greenhouse effect. The sun may radiate about the same amount of heat but the earth also radiates heat, the greenhouse gases trap some of that radiation - hence global warming. Global cooling could result from
Re: [Biofuel] Global poverty ,WSF and Brazil
BRAZIL AND WORLD SOCIAL FORUM Thank you very much for Keith for bringing here the important event in south as only the north of the world alwayes get importance . Not to you, and not to me either, and we're not the only Southerners here - and that doesn't mean Texas! LOL! Very interesting post, as usual, Pan, thanks very much! There've been other posts from you that were provocative and full of good ideas and I wanted to respond more than I succeeded in doing. I hope we can focus on some of the issues you've raised. Important scientific personalities such as Da Silva ,Mukul Sharma, Several political leaders such as Lula of Brazil , several economic leaders who are devoted and dedicated their life to poor from all over the world are coming together in WSF,world social forum. Keith , this is very good news to know that this event has unexpectedly become a global political and social phenomenon and will be going to spread all the parts of the world as this an real globalization of the wealth for all. Yes, real globalisation. The mainstream (ie Northern) press, just as they're so inclined to assume that if trade is free it must be good (NOT!), so often labels people like us and the hugely diverse groups that oppose the WTC and so on as anti-globalisation. Yet I think all of these people are quite clear that they accept globalisation but not *corporate* globalisation, a different and predatory animal. Being anti-globalisation would be a foolish denial, it's simply a fact: the world is round, not flat, and society is global, One World. That has much more to do with Marshall McLuhan's Global Village than with the neo-liberal pseudo-economic cant and the pseudo-globalisation promoted by the WTC etc. The feeling here in Brazil is really looking for the new model of economic , truly challenging US , showing another type of economic model in future political one not the left , or right but the green party I think that feeling is now widespread. We ,Brazilian feel that we can produce enough diesel and food for the most part of the world as we have the largest lands that can be cultivated are in the south , not in the north of G8 , but with G3, the India , Africa and Brazil as the rich sorce of biocombustivel and food for the world. Yes. Hence these G3 together is real threat not only the US but also the G8. To the powers-that-be, yes. What is going to be economic war based on the fuel.As G8 will always divide and rule G3, the WSF has the great green future not make the war , but make peace for poor Instead of super market oriented marketing and distribution , what we need is an Ruralization of urban areas in G3 with distributed energy and food based on biofuel Energy and food... They have so much in common. I think it's one of the things that differentiate this list, that we deal with subjects like this here. When you start talking of decentralising the food supply or decentralising the energy supply to the local level, as you're doing, it soon becomes difficult to tell the one from the other. We know about resource wars by now and about oil and militarism - see, eg, from quite an embarrassment of riches: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050110/004788.html [Biofuel] Oil politics trumps everything. Compare with this: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/20877/ Bushfood The real threat for us in the south is the war , which only the senators and political people of the US , spending huge amount of money promote in the name of threat of fuel and food . Surely the group members of our list need to unite all of the world and make WSF , world social forum, a success. The people who has no food has the same right to destroy the world , not his home as we all are globally linked. Sorry for not posting for the las 2 monts from here , as we had serious virus problems with our computers due to the use of Internet browser monopolised as the only one in the world Sorry about that! Have you gone Linux? The thin posting here, as Keith pointed out , I feel is lack of main subject thread for debate and discussion such as biogas ethanol form biomass, Diesel from wastes. etc We need to depend posts on tecnical subjects and new informations. For example,some thread for debate are: The best way to make methane from solid wates, which are complex subject that need integration of two process composting with bioconversion of methane . But conventional composting will not do the job , then enzymatic one is not practical on as Keith used point out the lab to internationall articall only.What is the best way? We also need here new information flow here ,as our list members are really sleeping. In our recent research study in internet that 7 kW flexivel methane gas ,gasoline power cost is very low as 250 US dollars or 800 Brazilian reais.The cheap gasline
RE: [Biofuel] PR Posing as Science in Crop Biotechnology
A question and an opinion from a newbie; What does GMO stand for? Is that a serious question? If so, not being rude, but the best answer is this: if you don't know already then go and find out. The opinion is on recycling - there are huge amounts of waste organics being land filled instead of recycled. May I respectfully suggest that some of you PhD's and entrepreneurs use your resources towards figuring out how to economically recycle more of our waste into energy instead of politicking. Once an activity becomes economically viable it will follow whoever leads into the mainstream. Looks like using used restaurant grease and oils is on the way to stardom. It is used for producing biodiesel and a host of other commercial products. Eh wot? Ed A strange response, Ed. Politicking indeed - ie stuff you don't agree with, no? You think this post from Dave and my response to it is politicking? You're a newbie, yes. You were pointed at a lot of list resources when you joined, maybe you took no notice? This list has been here awhile, and it doesn't just talk. Sensible newbies (not just my opinion, all the Netiquette resources advise it) lurk for awhile, spend time in the archives in an attempt to discover at least something about the type of community they've joined, before leaping in and putting their foot in it. Eh wot? Also, for someone who posted resources and advice about vermicomposting yesterday, do you really think that the best place for waste organics is to recycle them into energy? Have you any concept of how much organic matter your society wastes? Here's the tip of an iceberg for you: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20041206/003636.html [Biofuel] Half of US food goes to waste Have you any concept of how much energy your society wastes? The tip of another iceberg - the US has 4% of the world's population and accounts for 25% of the world's energy use. See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_404.html#energyuse You think this is your prerogative? It's at other people's expense. Very much of that food you waste is imported, much of that from poor countries where people go hungry. Have a good look at this: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_food.html Biofuels - Food or Fuel? So you want to waste all this waste by wasting it on something else you already waste too much of? And that's what we here should devote all our energy (!) to rather than politicking? Ed, waste is not a concept known to nature, nor to most traditional societies. The *only* place for waste organics is to recycle them back into the soil where they belong, to maintain soil fertility and nurture further growth. There are ways of optimising this process, of which vermicomposting is but one, which then *might* leave an excess for other purposes, energy supply being one of them. BUT it STILL won't be rational, Ed, without a bit of the very politicking you're apparently sneering at. This bit, for starters: Right, and thankyou. It's become something of a mantra that simply substituting biofuel for fossil-fuels is no answer - a rational energy future requires great reductions in energy use (waste), great improvements in energy efficiency, and probably most important, decentralisation of supply to the local level, along with the use of all available renewable technologies in combination as the local circumstances demand. By the way, when you joined the list you were sent a Welcome message, which you're obliged to read. It referred to the List rules, which you're also obliged to read. The List rules are here: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/05.html See the first two sections, Rights and obligations and Open discussion, and the Note at the end. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner (for Mondays Thursdays-Main Ofc.) | Ed Starr | Star Marketing | 949-496-0050 | FAX 949-388-7828 | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Dana Point, CA, USA (for Tue., Wed. Fri-Home Ofc.) | Ed Starr | Star Marketing | 619-749-9647 | FAX 619-749-9648 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello All, As the GM foods are not labeled, there is no way that their health impacts on the population can be identified after they are released. The same goes for biofuel. It seems to me that we ought to also be aware of GMO biofuel as much as we are aware of GMO food, though there is surprisingly little awareness in this respect. There is no explicit label for GMO foods, Not in the US anyway, though surveys have shown that most people favour labelling. and many people who are buying biofuel as a green alternative to petroleum may not realize that GMO biofuel is actually a contribution to the problem and not the solution (to global warming, corporate control, inefficiency, etc. -- you decide). I've said this before: If you just swap fuels instead of changing the entire disaster you'll end up with
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Thank you Keith. Thought you might catch that loose reference. My friend Prema, a Tibetan Buddhist nun, once remarked rather conversationally: It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such an opportunity. If she'd said it to you you'd remember it. It was her conversational tone as much as anything else, in the normal frame of reference it was quite at odds with the content: Would you like another cup of tea Vicar? Not! She's great! I looked high and low for the your previous mention of those words and couldn't find them. Sorry to not have a better filing system in order to quote more accurately, especially when it comes to wisdom of such brevity. It's somewhere in the midst of a 60 gig hard drive. Just can't seem to find it at the moment. Well, that *is* equivalent to about 60,000 hard-copy books, after all. :-) No need to break a gut Todd, or waste too much time - please just ask if you think I can help you find something. Have you tried any of the new so-called Desktop Search engines, from Google and others? Quick full-text search of your whole hard-disk. I haven't tried them (not for Macs, yet), but I use other full-text searches all the time, highly recommended. Regards Keith Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert Hello Todd Michael, Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, Bit of a presumption or two there, eh? One that there was an invite and two that if there were that I would care to parlay valuable time for such a distraction. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. I'd prefer to approach it as a gap in communication, aka a misunderstanding. There are far more destructive/debilitating practices out there, accomplished with intent no less, that need to be squashed or quarantined. I'd rather save my energies for those more notable occassions. What is it that the Buddhist monk said? It's not often a person gets the chance to be a human. It's a shame to waste it. Or something rather close to that. She's a nun, not a monk, and this is what she said (from previous): My friend Prema, a Tibetan Buddhist nun, once remarked rather conversationally: It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such an opportunity. I haven't seen Prema for 20 years, but still we're friends and I'm sure we'll meet again. We're only given so much time and one existance to expend it. Prema wouldn't agree with that, neither would I. But I agree with the point you're making. Regards Keith It would be a shame to squander it on those things that yield no fruit.. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert No problem Todd. I gotcha, loud and clear. Even if Ken was 100% correct, I would have worded it a little differently and certainly would not have made presumptions as to what you don't know. That's just an invitation to a contest in which I prefer not to enter. Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, I just want to say that I'm sorry about the misunderstanding and let's move on. These kinds of exchanges can consume an awful lot of time and I think we all have bigger fish to fry. Mike snip ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global poverty ,WSF and Brazil
How to energize the list with more 3rd world input? Post in the local language followed by an english translation where posible. Not everyone speaks conversational English in written form, however this does not mean that these individuals do not have very worthy things to say, just maybe a little shy to take a whack at a foreign language they are not too familiar with? Maybe ? At least that way those who do not understand English fluently will be able to benefit from posts in their own language. Might be a bit of a bother to those of us who do not speak Hindi or any number of languages, but then with an attempt at translation we could at least get the point. Luc - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global poverty ,WSF and Brazil Greetings Pan BRAZIL AND WORLD SOCIAL FORUM Thank you very much for Keith for bringing here the important event in south as only the north of the world alwayes get importance . Not to you, and not to me either, and we're not the only Southerners here - and that doesn't mean Texas! LOL! Very interesting post, as usual, Pan, thanks very much! There've been other posts from you that were provocative and full of good ideas and I wanted to respond more than I succeeded in doing. I hope we can focus on some of the issues you've raised. Important scientific personalities such as Da Silva ,Mukul Sharma, Several political leaders such as Lula of Brazil , several economic leaders who are devoted and dedicated their life to poor from all over the world are coming together in WSF,world social forum. Keith , this is very good news to know that this event has unexpectedly become a global political and social phenomenon and will be going to spread all the parts of the world as this an real globalization of the wealth for all. Yes, real globalisation. The mainstream (ie Northern) press, just as they're so inclined to assume that if trade is free it must be good (NOT!), so often labels people like us and the hugely diverse groups that oppose the WTC and so on as anti-globalisation. Yet I think all of these people are quite clear that they accept globalisation but not *corporate* globalisation, a different and predatory animal. Being anti-globalisation would be a foolish denial, it's simply a fact: the world is round, not flat, and society is global, One World. That has much more to do with Marshall McLuhan's Global Village than with the neo-liberal pseudo-economic cant and the pseudo-globalisation promoted by the WTC etc. The feeling here in Brazil is really looking for the new model of economic , truly challenging US , showing another type of economic model in future political one not the left , or right but the green party I think that feeling is now widespread. We ,Brazilian feel that we can produce enough diesel and food for the most part of the world as we have the largest lands that can be cultivated are in the south , not in the north of G8 , but with G3, the India , Africa and Brazil as the rich sorce of biocombustivel and food for the world. Yes. Hence these G3 together is real threat not only the US but also the G8. To the powers-that-be, yes. What is going to be economic war based on the fuel.As G8 will always divide and rule G3, the WSF has the great green future not make the war , but make peace for poor Instead of super market oriented marketing and distribution , what we need is an Ruralization of urban areas in G3 with distributed energy and food based on biofuel Energy and food... They have so much in common. I think it's one of the things that differentiate this list, that we deal with subjects like this here. When you start talking of decentralising the food supply or decentralising the energy supply to the local level, as you're doing, it soon becomes difficult to tell the one from the other. We know about resource wars by now and about oil and militarism - see, eg, from quite an embarrassment of riches: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050110/004788.html [Biofuel] Oil politics trumps everything. Compare with this: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/20877/ Bushfood The real threat for us in the south is the war , which only the senators and political people of the US , spending huge amount of money promote in the name of threat of fuel and food . Surely the group members of our list need to unite all of the world and make WSF , world social forum, a success. The people who has no food has the same right to destroy the world , not his home as we all are globally linked. Sorry for not posting for the las 2 monts from here , as we had serious virus problems with our computers due to the use of Internet browser monopolised as the only one in the world Sorry about that! Have you gone Linux?
