Re: [Biofuel] Pressure release
Hi Keith youve been a great help Many thanks Ian - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pressure release Hello Ian, welcome I am new to the biofuel world and have read most of the webb site info but can't seem to find any reference to pressure release. They all talk of having a sealed system Closed is better. Even the sealed systems (hot water tanks mostly) have pressure outlets and can withstand some pressure. to prevent personal harm and methanol loss but pressure must build with A, heating and B, pumping air in to mix the solution. Pumping air in? I don't think so. Question. How are the tanks vented? Have a good read about these two processors, it'll help: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html Biodiesel processors: The Deepthort 100B http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html Journey to Forever 90-litre processor Best wishes Keith Many thanks Ian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.6/59 - Release Date: 27/07/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pressure release
Hi Todd Thanks for that I appreciate your advise. Ian - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:51 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pressure release How are the tanks vented? Any tank holding any percentage of methanol should have a vapor line running to a central manifold prior to passing through a condensor. The greatest pressure build-up occurs during the first moments of reaction. Rather than a pressure relief valve that could easily fail, an adjustable pressure flap can be constructed that opens at low pressure. If the vent lines are 2-4, there's not much chance of the pressure building beyond a couple of pounds. As for a sealed system? There are two options. Either size and construct all parts of the system that will be in the methanol loop (tanks, transfer lines, pumps vents, etc.) to withstand negative pressure, or simple make sure that any new feedstock and reactants that enter do so at a speed consistant with the condensor's capacity, allowing all exiting vapor to be stripped of methanol. Sizing a condensor would be a less taxing exercise than constructin an entire system for negative pressure.Over size the condensor and the reactants can be fed faster. Under size it and they simply have to enter at a slower rate. Todd Swearingen Ian Theresa Sims wrote: I am new to the biofuel world and have read most of the webb site info but can't seem to find any reference to pressure release. They all talk of having a sealed system to prevent personal harm and methanol loss but pressure must build with A, heating and B, pumping air in to mix the solution. Question. How are the tanks vented? Many thanks Ian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date: 28/07/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pressure release
Hi Keith youve been a great help Many thanks Ian Hi Ian You're most welcome, I'm glad it helped. Best wishes Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pressure release Hello Ian, welcome I am new to the biofuel world and have read most of the webb site info but can't seem to find any reference to pressure release. They all talk of having a sealed system Closed is better. Even the sealed systems (hot water tanks mostly) have pressure outlets and can withstand some pressure. to prevent personal harm and methanol loss but pressure must build with A, heating and B, pumping air in to mix the solution. Pumping air in? I don't think so. Question. How are the tanks vented? Have a good read about these two processors, it'll help: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html Biodiesel processors: The Deepthort 100B http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html Journey to Forever 90-litre processor Best wishes Keith Many thanks Ian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] email sent by mistake
where can i get more info on organic farms and other sustainable small-scale enterprises? greeting Ragnhild --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Biofuels list I am sorry I sent you the email regarding the farm for sale by mistake. I hope you kept it from going to everyone. You are not on a group list. I meant to check a name at the bottom of my email address book and instead hit Send All so the message went to all my addresses. I will be more careful from now on The group I am working with is setting up a network of model farms in various locations. The training centers will teach self-reliance in organic farming, renewable energy technologies, creating our own fuel to lessen our dependence on oil, local enterprises that provide jobs, etc. One lady is getting a huge grant to train an international group involved in Peace Corps type of activities. This farm will train volunteers to teach people around the world how to set up organic farms and other sustainable small-scale enterprises to strengthen local economies and help reduce hunger and poverty. If you want me to keep you posted about our activities, I will be happy to do so, but I will not send any more Send All emails to you. Marilyn ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Organic farms - was Re: [Biofuel] email sent by mistake
Hello Ragnhild Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 00:56:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Ragnhild Smeets [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] email sent by mistake To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org where can i get more info on organic farms and other sustainable small-scale enterprises? Right next door... http://journeytoforever.org/farm.html Small farms: Journey to - Sustainable farming - Small farms fit - References Small farm resources Community-supported farms Farming with trees Farming with animals Pasture Pigs for small farms Poultry for small farms Aquaculture for small farms Composting for small farms Controlling weeds and pests Small farms library http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html City farms Organic gardening Building a square foot garden Plant spacing guides No ground? Use containers When to sow what Seeds Garden pond Gardening resources Composting Making compost Composting resources Composting indoors Vermicomposting Humanure Composting for small farms And more besides. Best wishes Keith greeting Ragnhild --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Biofuels list I am sorry I sent you the email regarding the farm for sale by snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pressure release
You're welcome Ian, But I guess I should have qualified that couple of pounds pressure statement. It's solely dependant upon reaction temperature not exceeding approximately 120*F. Those who use hot water heaters as reactors may be running at higher temperatures. If they exceed 145-150*F then they're operating more of a reflux (boil) reactor rather than all the mixing being done by a pump. That would all depend on how the thermostat is set. The factory thermostats are generally one time shut-offs that become unusable should the temp ever reach a specific high point. Older units shut down at 180*. Newer older units at ~160*. Spanking new units may be even lower. In any event, a closed reflux reactor would have far higher pressures. You could place an air cooled condensor on top of the reactor. That could be something as simple as a 10' long x 1/2 diameter copper tube with an open top. We've done this with a piece of scrap from a commercial cooling tower. It had hundreds of aluminum fins attached to it for heat dissipation. In such a setup, the methanol will boil and thoroughly mix the contents, but as the vapors travel up the tube they cool and fall back into the reactor. Measuring the temp at different heights of the condensor will permit you to calibrate the reflux temp so no vapors escape. Todd Swearingen Ian Theresa Sims wrote: Hi Todd Thanks for that I appreciate your advise. Ian - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:51 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pressure release How are the tanks vented? Any tank holding any percentage of methanol should have a vapor line running to a central manifold prior to passing through a condensor. The greatest pressure build-up occurs during the first moments of reaction. Rather than a pressure relief valve that could easily fail, an adjustable pressure flap can be constructed that opens at low pressure. If the vent lines are 2-4, there's not much chance of the pressure building beyond a couple of pounds. As for a sealed system? There are two options. Either size and construct all parts of the system that will be in the methanol loop (tanks, transfer lines, pumps vents, etc.) to withstand negative pressure, or simple make sure that any new feedstock and reactants that enter do so at a speed consistant with the condensor's capacity, allowing all exiting vapor to be stripped of methanol. Sizing a condensor would be a less taxing exercise than constructin an entire system for negative pressure.Over size the condensor and the reactants can be fed faster. Under size it and they simply have to enter at a slower rate. Todd Swearingen Ian Theresa Sims wrote: I am new to the biofuel world and have read most of the webb site info but can't seem to find any reference to pressure release. They all talk of having a sealed system to prevent personal harm and methanol loss but pressure must build with A, heating and B, pumping air in to mix the solution. Question. How are the tanks vented? Many thanks Ian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date: 28/07/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] arcosanti - an urban laboratory
interesting. arcosanti - an urban laboratory http://www.arcosanti.org/ Get your daily alternative energy news http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid news resources forums http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Alternate Energy Resource Network http://www.alternate-energy.net 1000+ news sources - resources updated daily ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Gangs of America by Ted Nace - the rise of Corporate Power and the disabling of democracy
Fwd from Lion Kuntz at Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group (SANET): While looking up something about Tom Scott, in 1877 the president of the biggest corporation in the world who went to war with John D. Rockefeller and lost, I found a link. This link led to a chapter of a book online, which had good information, and confirmed facts from a number of other sources. However, I noticed that the host site offered the electronic version of the book for free download in PDF format. If anybody would like to save themselves twenty-five smackers, this book is offered by arrangement of the author and the publisher. It is not some pirate copy. http://gangsofamerica.com/index.html - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sincerely, Lion Kuntz Santa Rosa, California, USA Download for free: http://gangsofamerica.com/read.html http://gangsofamerica.com/index.html Gangs of America by Ted Nace - the rise of Corporate Power and the disabling of democracy Corporations are the dominant force in modern life, surpassing even church and state. The largest are richer than entire nations, and courts have given these entities more rights than people. To many Americans, corporate power seems out of control. According to a Business Week/Harris poll released in September 2000, 82 percent of those surveyed agreed that business has too much power over too many aspects of our lives. And the recent revelations of corporate scandal and political influence have only added to such concerns. Where did this powerful institution come from? How did it get so much power? In Gangs of America: The Rise of Corporate Power and the Disabling of Democracy, author Ted Nace probes the roots of corporate power, finding answers in surprising places. A key revelation of the book is the wariness of the Founding Fathers toward corporations. That wariness was shaped by rampant abuses on the part of British corporations such as the Virginia Company, whose ill-treatment killed thousands of women and children on forced-labor tobacco plantations, and the East India Company, whose attempt to monopolize American commodities led to the merchant-led rebellion known as the Boston Tea Party. Because of such attitudes, the word corporation does not appear once in the United States Constitution. At the Constitutional Convention, all proposals to include corporations in that document were voted down by delegates. Corporate attorneys persisted in seeking legal protections for their clients by means of sympathetic court rulings, but until the Civil War such attempts largely failed. After the Civil War, the tide quickly turned, as lobbyists secured key changes in corporate law and as corporate attorneys won a series of decisions from an increasingly pro-corporate Supreme Court. Nace recounts the key figures who engineered the corporate bill of rights, in particular two brilliant strategists: railroad baron Tom Scott and Supreme Court Justice Stephen Field. The book explores in depth the bizarre intrigues that resulted in the infamous corporations are persons ruling of 1886, and how that ruling affected the subsequent development of Supreme Court doctrine. Nace charts the growth of corporate power through the Gilded Age, including the bloody repression of organized labor and the rise of social Darwinist thinking among American elites. He recounts how that expansion came to a halt under the New Deal, as organized labor gained legal protections, social Darwinism fell into disrepute, and Franklin Roosevelt asserted a vision of American society that placed democratic limits on corporate power. To many observers, it seemed that the corporate Frankenstein had finally been tamed by countervailing power. According to Nace, that optimistic view was dashed in the final decades of the twentieth century, as Big Business mounted a remarkable comeback. The corporate political resurgence began with a 1971 memorandum written by Lewis Powell, Jr., shortly before Powell was appointed to the Supreme Court by Richard Nixon. In the memorandum, Powell urged corporate America to apply its full organizational and strategic resources to politics, a course of action that proved highly successful. Gangs of America describes the expansion of corporate legal empowerment onto the global stage through international agreements such as the North American Free Trade Agreement, which boosted the legal powers of corporations to the level of sovereign nations. The book pays special attention to recent events, including campaign finance reform, the financial scandals of 2002, and the growing movement to redefine the corporation and limit corporate power. Ted Nace worked as a researcher on electric utility policy for the Environmental Defense Fund and as staff director of the Dakota Resource Council, a grassroots group seeking to protect farms and ranches from strip mines and other energy projects. In 1985, he founded
Re: [Biofuel] Cornell on ethanol, biodiesel, hydrogen energy efficiencies
Bravo Keith ! The ethanol game is hotting up. Very solid facts presented by you for Ethanol. Then how individuals can undo the disinformation campaign. It's the media which makes or mars such people as Pimental -and their views, particularly if they are academics with a couple of alphabets prefixing suffixing their names and backed by an otherwise famous university. Finally what will the Govt decide ? I amkeeping track of the controversy and comments as its fallout will be world-wide Regards, Subramanian, D.V Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith wrote:I think it will not die until it is deliberately killed. Pimentel is debunked again and again yet he takes no notice, he just does it again. He's wrong and he knows he's wrong yet he keeps making these destructive claims. Publishing rebuttals just doesn't work, the disinformation campaign continues. Those publishing the rebuttals don't know how to play the media game like Pimentel does. It's time he was confronted by his detractors in a public debate and discredited, and his new sidekick Patzek with him. Their publishers must be made to account for their obviously skewed peer review.Some earlier studies showed a negative energy balance for corn ethanol. Only Pimentel and Patzek still do so.In 1991 Pimentel stated the net energy balance of corn ethanol was -33,517 btu.In 1989, Ho had put it at -4,000 btu.In 1990, Marland and Turhollow put it at 18,154.In 1992, Keeney and DeLuca put it at -8,438.In 1995 Lorenz and Morris put it at 30,589.In 1995 Shapouri et al. put it at 20,436In 1999 Agri. and Agri-Food, CAN found it was 29,826.In 1999 Wang et al. put it 22,500In 2002, Kim and Dale put it at 23,886 to 35,463 btu.In 2001, 10 years after his first study, Pimentel found it was even less than the first time, -33,562.Make a chart of these figures. Why do Pimentel's analyses stand out?- His corn yields date from pre-1992.- His value for energy required to produce ethanol and the ethanol yield date from pre-1980.- His figures for energy to produce fertilizer are 1990 worldwide values, not recent U. S. values.- He assumes all corn is irrigated (only 16% is) - virtually no irrigated corn is converted to ethanol.- He does not properly assign an energy credit for the high protein DDGS co-product.U.S. corn yields increased steadily from 80 bushels per acre in 1970 to 130+ bushels per acre in 2000.U.S. corn output per pound of fertilizer used increased from 0.33 bushels/lb. fertilizer in 1970 to 0.6 in 2000.Energy use intensity of ethanol plants has reduced by 40% in the case of the more common dry mills and about half that much for wet mills. Most ethanol in the U.S. is produced from dry mills.With his data 20 years out of date, Pimentel has republished his claims again and again since 2001, right up to now, joined a couple of years ago by Patzek. Pimentel must be asked why and on whose behalf he continues to ignore reality, and asked in a public forum for all to see.The data above and more come from the references cited here:http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.htmlIs ethanol energy-efficient?Best wishesKeith___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
