[Biofuel] FW: Chertoff on International Law
I think the EU is right about the human rights issue. Bush wants to be a dictator, pure and simple. I hope he gets to see the errors of his ways, although I don't expect much from the Dems with all that sickening moving to the center talk. Bush should be impeached as soon as the Dems take control of Congress in about seven weeks. Think it will ever happen? Peace, D. Mindock CheFromonsortiumrtoff's 'Chilling VisFFromion' Consortium News By Nat Parry NovemJudith 22, 2006 Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, who runs the giant agency that keeps track of threats to the United States, has shared what he calls his “chilling vision” of the future – a time when U.S. government actions might be constrained by international law. Chertoff outlined his nightmare scenario in a Nov. 17 speech to the Federalist Society, an organization of right-wing lawyers who spearheaded the legal arguments for granting President George W. Bush authority unbound by any law, including the constitutional rights of Americans. But the focus of Chertoff’s warning was that the United States is under growing pressure from legal scholars and the world community to comply with international law, especially on war crimes and humane treatment of detainees in the “war on terror.” “The fact is, whether we like it or not, international law is increasingly entering our domestic domain,” Chertoff said. The culprits, according to Chertoff, include a narrow majority of the justices on the U.S. Supreme Court. “The Supreme Court has begun to bring it through cases like Hamdan,” a reference to Hamdan v. Rumsfeld in which the high court cited the Geneva Conventions in ruling that hundreds of suspects being held without charges at Guantanamo Bay had legal rights. Chertoff objected to the Supreme Court’s reference to the Geneva Conventions despite the fact that the U.S. Constitution states that treaties entered into by the U.S. government are the “supreme law of the land” and all four Geneva Conventions were long ago signed by the U.S. Executive and ratified by the U.S. Senate. Chertoff also protested the mounting worldwide legal criticism of the U.S. government. “International law is being used as a rhetorical weapon against us,” Chertoff said. “We are constantly portrayed as being on the losing end, and the negative end of international law developments.” The Homeland Security secretary cited, for instance, the 1986 International Court of Justice ruling which held that the U.S. mining of Nicaragua’s harbors during the contra war violated international law against military aggression. In that case, the Reagan administration simply denied the court’s jurisdiction over U.S. actions and ignored the ruling. However, Chertoff worried that such a defense might not suffice in the future. So he called on the Federalist Society to go on the offensive and “take overseas the same kind of intellectual vigor and intellectual argument that you brought into the United States and into academia” a quarter century ago, when the group began challenging the Warren Court’s “judicial activism,” which included outlawing racial segregation as a violation of the “equal protection” clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Over time, Chertoff said an aggressive assault against the arguments seeking to apply international law to the United States could turn the tide in Europe and elsewhere, much as the Federalist Society succeeded in creating a backlash to the Warren Court. But Chertoff may have overestimated the intellectual firepower of the Federalists or undervalued the growing worldwide commitment to the universal application of international law. Different Approaches While the U.S. government has been recoiling from new institutions such as the International Criminal Court, much of the rest of the world has been embracing the new internationalism with open arms. Europe has established a system of international and supranational law unparalleled in the world, partly with the goal of averting a rise of nationalistic authoritarianism that contributed to regional devastation from two world wars. After World War II, with the continent in ruins, European leaders and their American counterparts supported the creation of new international regimes such as the United Nations, which had the expressed purpose of “sav[ing] succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind.” Along with the U.N. Charter and Universal Declaration of Human Rights, conventions were passed to make the conduct of war and the treatment of prisoners more humane. These included the Convention Against Torture, the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and the Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. While Washington endorsed these efforts, Europe took them even more to heart, establishing the European Court of Human Rights [ECHR] to enforce the Convention on
Re: [Biofuel] The Great Fence of America
neighbours...whadya gonna do? you folks are great, I mean that sincerely. From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Fence of America Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:02:28 -0500 You'd think the Canadians would put up their own fence! robert and benita rabello wrote: Fred Oliff wrote: Who gets riich when they build this new fence? Some company affiliated with congressmen and senators. And is there going to be one on the northern borders as well? Yes. This has been a topic of derision among people in BC for the last several weeks. I have a newspaper cartoon that shows Mr. Bush extoling the virtues of America's border with Canada. He's shouting through a megaphone from the top of a barbed wire topped fence, complete with security cameras and a mine field. An astonished Canadian, walking a dog, approaches the US border to hear Mr. Bush say: I cherish the unique and special relationship we have between our two countries. Now, keep your hands where I can see them and step away from the wall! Fences are meant to keep people/animals in or keep people/animals out? Just asking... They're supposed to protect America from all those terrorists invading from Canada that the US Customs agency can't seem to screen at the border, despite all the harassment they give to our allies and friends. I thought Al Gore's comment in An Inconvenient Truth about terrorism vs the environment (and I cannot recall the exact words), was very telling of the present plight we all face. Which, after all, is easier to fix? Admitting there is a problem (has been difficult), awareness that there is a problem is easy (maybe not AS easy) but taking action (on the environment) is just not very popular. No video games were made/sold in the resolution of global climate change (warming). Dealing with the climate issue will have an indirect consequence of significantly reducing our need to project power into the Persian Gulf to defend oil supplies. That would go a long way toward ameliorating the hostility towards us that has been brewing in that region for the past fifty years or so. The other side of the equation, however, will involve solving the Palestinian issue. Of course, I've been talking this way for thirty years now and no one seems willing to listen. My mother thinks we should bomb the rest of the planet, calls my wife an ignorant foreigner (for suggesting that the US spend less money on defense and more on infrastructure and a social safety net) and told me to go to hell for suggesting that people who claim to be Christians should actually reflect a Christ-like attitude. Sadly, this kind of mentality is common enough among American citizens that no substantive policy changes will ever occur. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So, how in the heck does this work out
Zeke Yewdall wrote: Not sure... In California it's pretty easy, because the simple payback time is only 5 to 8 years -- just do a 15 or 20 year financing of that, and it works at realistic interest rates. However, in Colorado, even with the rebates and incentives, we're still around a 15 or 20 year payback, which means that you'd have to finance it at zero interest rate for 20 years in order to make it work. It's also odd that the only advertising they've done in our market is on Craigslist Z Hey Zeke, Well, Craigslist eh? That's a *good* thing -to my thinking anyway-. They get points for that. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax
Well, we know at least, that the conservative point of view will be well represented. As you probably already know George W. has already begun soliciting for his memorial library. I Understand that the goal is $500 million plus. He is soliciting these funds from companies that he still will have a direct say about their future for the next two years (can anyone say conflict of interest)? For that kind of money, a sort of Bush world can be created in which George and his supporters can continue their fantasies and talk about the good old days. I suspect a special route will have to be created, so George will not have to see the reality of the world he created. Just leave the ranch, go to the museum and then back to the ranch, having spent time with the real people of uhhmerika (another crowd of hand-picked, Texas redneck, neocon supporters) to cheer their undying love for their ex-president! Al from Florida [Original Message] From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: 11/28/2006 2:07:13 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax Hi Leo, Right on! History as written in books is largely either incomplete or wrong, sometimes intentionally so. I wonder how two historians, one leaning to the right and the other leaning to the left, will record the history of the Bush/Cheney administration. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: leo bunyan To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax I'm still here D Funny how history repeats itself or stays the same Really it's a bit pointless teaching history in schools as nobody seems to learn from it Leo D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Bob. Good input!!! I put that hoax article out there to see what the reponse would be. I hope Leo gets your comeback. I don't want him to suffer from spinmeisterism. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Bob Molloy To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax Hi All, Hoax indeed. This revisionist version of the Pilgrims Progress is pure unadulterated neo-con spin. Our masters continually rewrite history to make it fit their political ambitions. As always, the aim is to blind the Great Unwashed and line them up behind whatever their current scheme is to a) stay on top, b) hog all the goodies, and c) keep the peasants in line. We don't need to know any facts at all about the first colonists except the obvious that starving people are desperate. They will even stoop to working in the fields if necessary just to stay alive, which would suggest that political orientation is much lower on the individual's hierachy of needs. Yes, some did die in the first years. How many of inherited diseases, poor housing, worse diet and plain homesickness is just a guess. What we can be sure of is that crop failure would be a likely outcome under alien conditions. We also know that the Founding Fathers learned quickly and soon adapted. However, if an assessment of socialism as a working concept is needed let us - instead of making assumptions about the outcome of socialism in the first colony - take a look at how it actually works out in practice in modern states. See below for a re-run of the recent Scientific American article. On the question of efficient production and use of resources, how about this fact (taken from Freedom Next Time, John Pilger's latest book: The US military budget for one year is the equivalent of $30,000 an hour for every hour since Christ was born. Bob. From: http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm?articleID=000AF3D5-6DC9-152E-A 9F183414B7FScientific American, Oct. 16, 2006 http://www.precaution.org/lib/06/prn_nordic_economies_work.061016.htm [Printer-friendly version] The Social Welfare State, Beyond Ideology Are higher taxes and strong social safety nets antagonistic to a prosperous market economy? The evidence is now in. By http://www.powells.com/biblio/17-1594200459-8Jeffrey D. Sachs One of the great challenges of sustainable development is to combine society's desires for economic prosperity and social security. For decades economists and politicians have debated how to reconcile the undoubted power of markets with the reassuring protections of social insurance. America's supply-siders claim that the best way to achieve well-being for America's poor is by spurring rapid economic growth and that the higher taxes needed to fund high levels of social insurance would cripple prosperity. Austrian-born free-market economist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_HayekFriedrich August von Hayek suggested in the 1940s that high taxation would be a road to serfdom, a threat to freedom itself. Most of the debate in the U.S.
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol for gas cars
Jason, Thanks for the assurances. A friend sells, restores, repairs, and stores Morgans ( cars) many are classics. He has noticed a relationship between leaking rubber hoses and use of ethanol blends as low as 10%. The newer hoses seem to hold up better. Another friend got a notice regarding incompatibility of ethanol blends with the rubber components in his snowmobile. I don't know for sure, but suspect that methanol is even more damaging to rubber parts than ethanol. It would stand to reason that newer cars (post 95?) and especially flex fuel cars would be better in terms of rubber compatibility. Tom - Original Message - From: Jason Katie To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol for gas cars methanol degrades rubber parts,sure, but so does ethanol and BD. there will be plenty of warning if something starts leaking. and in most newer cars it wont matter anyway. if all else fails we got lotsa blue-goo (RVT silicone sealer)! Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol for gas cars Jason, Would there be a problem with rubber components? A can of HEET (methanol) in the tank every once in awhile to resolve a water issue? Maybe. A dose of methanol to hoses and seals with every inch on the odometer? Not. JTF Why bother washing? (BD) If so: I wonder if flex fuel cars have rubber components that resist methanol better than standard issue road cars. Being able to denature ethanol with methanol could be the answer to the homebrewer's dilemna water is soluble in both. There are several references in the archives to using 80, 85, 90% ethanol (rest is water). There is an interesting discussion of water injection at the Online Biofuels Library (JTF) The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel . There is also a chart in Convert Your Car to Alcohol at the Biofuels Library that is based on testing 150 - 200 proof alcohol. This suggests that a gas car (in this case a 1969 Dodge Dart) can be converted to run on 75% ethanol. Best results were found to be with 90% alcohol. My point is that you don't need anhydrous ethanol to run a car. You need it if you plan to denature the alcohol with gasoline. Can we denature it with methanol w/o damaging the car? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Ethanol and cold starts
Hello All, I've read that people using ethanol, blend in 15 - 20% gasoline to improve cold weather starts. What would one do if they were running on 85 - 90% ethanol : 10 -15% water to improve cold weather starts? Do flex fuel cars have options for block heaters? Thanks, Tom___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Great Fence of America
the fence being built on the Mexican border is partial, so it does neither (in or out); it is a sop to the rethug base -- providing construction graft to corporatocrat pals like Haliburton (as with the huge, mostly-secret prison-camps/towns also being ignored by MsM). The one on the Canadian border is a paper/convenience fence, since it's harder to tell Canucks from WASPs by skin color or language. The net result of both (as with many policies of the illegal administration in DC) is hardship payment imposed on the non-affluent 98% of the population (US) to continue the wealth-accumulation of the 2%. Amerika is a broken dream-turned-nightmare that is likely only to be awakened from by Gaia's Revenge (coming soon to a giant flat-screen multiplex near us all). E.A.C. --- Fred Oliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Who gets riich when they build this new fence? And is there going to be one on the northern borders as well? Fences are meant to keep people/animals in or keep people/animals out? Just asking... I thought Al Gore's comment in An Inconvenient Truth about terrorism vs the environment (and I cannot recall the exact words), was very telling of the present plight we all face. Which, after all, is easier to fix? Admitting there is a problem (has been difficult), awareness that there is a problem is easy (maybe not AS easy) but taking action (on the environment) is just not very popular. No video games were made/sold in the resolution of global climate change (warming). two cents - From: JAMES PHELPS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:19:42 -0700 I guess another question would be how this relates to freedom? And why is it the richest country in the world cannot come up with universal health care. On another beat, what was that saying on the statue of liberty? I wonder if that will have to be revisited concerning our new fence in the south.? Jim From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 07:23:50 -0600 universal health care, unlike in the USA where it's every man/women for his/her self. JAMES PHELPS wrote: Wow thats almost 4 to one worse. Also how do Canada, Sweden and Iceland do so well coming from the free world? - Original Message - *From:* bob allen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Sunday, November 26, 2006 7:32 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax Kirk McLoren wrote: We have some very wealthy people but a huge quantity of very poor. The corporations sell us on frredom yet the infant mortality in Belize is better than here. Most Americans havent a clue what it is like to live elsewhere. Spend an afternoon with the almanac and look at statistics. Read em and weep. I did and your off the mark. We do rank poorly among European and some Asian countries but ahead of most poorer countries. (36th on a list at http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/ranking_Infant_Mortality_Rate_aall.htm) see http://www.brainyatlas.com/fields/2091.html for example Belize 24.31 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) United States 6.69 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) Canada 4.95 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) Afghanistan 144.76 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) Sweden 3.44 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) Iceland 3.53 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) India 61.47 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) China 27.25 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) Kirk */Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: On 11/24/06, *D. Mindock* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Leo, Here's something about the Thanksgiving here in the USA. It just appeared in my email inbox. The story does have a moral, whether it's correct or not, I not qualified to say. Peace, D. Mindock 11/23/2006 *The Great Thanksgiving Hoax* /by Richard J. Marbury/ snip Thus the real reason for Thanksgiving, deleted from the official story, is: Socialism does not work; the one and only source of abundance is free markets, and we thank God we live in a country where we can have them. snip It always amuses me to find people who are so entralled by the free market that they actually
Re: [Biofuel] The Great Fence of America
Ha Ha who gets the contract? Probably somebody in the Kellog-Brown Root division of Halliburton would be my guess. Or maybe they'll farm out the construction to the SaudiBinladin Group. As long as the workers stand on the Canadian and Mexican sides of the wall while they work there should be no conflict of interest and no breach of homeland security LMAO. A climate change video game.now there's a CAPITAL idea Fred! LOL Joe Fred Oliff wrote: Who gets riich when they build this new fence? And is there going to be one on the northern borders as well? Fences are meant to keep people/animals in or keep people/animals out? Just asking... I thought Al Gore's comment in An Inconvenient Truth about terrorism vs the environment (and I cannot recall the exact words), was very telling of the present plight we all face. Which, after all, is easier to fix? Admitting there is a problem (has been difficult), awareness that there is a problem is easy (maybe not AS easy) but taking action (on the environment) is just not very popular. No video games were made/sold in the resolution of global climate change (warming). two cents From: /JAMES PHELPS [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Reply-To: /biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ To: /biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Subject: /Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax/ Date: /Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:19:42 -0700/ I guess another question would be how this relates to freedom? And why is it the richest country in the world cannot come up with universal health care. On another beat, what was that saying on the statue of liberty? I wonder if that will have to be revisited concerning our new fence in the south.? Jim From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 07:23:50 -0600 universal health care, unlike in the USA where it's every man/women for his/her self. JAMES PHELPS wrote: Wow that's almost 4 to one worse. Also how do Canada, Sweden and Iceland do so well coming from the free world? - Original Message - *From:* bob allen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Sunday, November 26, 2006 7:32 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax Kirk McLoren wrote: We have some very wealthy people but a huge quantity of very poor. The corporations sell us on frredom yet the infant mortality in Belize is better than here. Most Americans havent a clue what it is like to live elsewhere. Spend an afternoon with the almanac and look at statistics. Read em and weep. I did and your off the mark. We do rank poorly among European and some Asian countries but ahead of most poorer countries. (36th on a list at http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/ranking_Infant_Mortality_Rate_aall.htm) see http://www.brainyatlas.com/fields/2091.html for example Belize 24.31 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) United States 6.69 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) Canada 4.95 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) Afghanistan 144.76 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) Sweden 3.44 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) Iceland 3.53 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) India 61.47 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) China 27.25 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) Kirk */Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: On 11/24/06, *D. Mindock* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Leo, Here's something about the Thanksgiving here in the USA. It just appeared in my email inbox. The story does have a moral, whether it's correct or not, I not qualified to say. Peace, D. Mindock 11/23/2006 *The Great Thanksgiving Hoax* /by Richard J. Marbury/ snip Thus the real reason for Thanksgiving, deleted from the official story, is: Socialism does not work; the one and only source of abundance is free markets, and we thank God we live in a country where we can have them.
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and cold starts
I don't think that adding water would be the right way to go. I think the problem is that ethanol has a higher vapor pressure than gasoline, and in cold weather, it is hard to get it to vaporize into a fuel-air mixture effectively. Gasoline vaporizes much easier, and gets the engine going and initiates the combustion. But water has an even higher vapor pressure than ethanol, plus it is not a fuel, so I don't think it would help. Since all of the commercially produced flex fuel vehicals that I've seen are designed to run E85, I think they just rely on the gasoline content to start in the winter. What bugs me is that I can't buy any flex fuel vehicals that are efficient -- I mean, if I want a flex fuel vehical, I have to upgrade to a full sized pickup or a V8 sedan. Where's the little 4 cylinder efficient flex fuel vehical? Guess it's not all that hard to change out carbureator jets to change the fuel air ratio yourself to allow running ethanol. Z On 11/28/06, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, I've read that people using ethanol, blend in 15 - 20% gasoline to improve cold weather starts. What would one do if they were running on 85 - 90% ethanol : 10 -15% water to improve cold weather starts? Do flex fuel cars have options for block heaters? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Weird Weather
Yeah instead the policy makers slunk off to the Banff Springs Hotel and had a meeting about how to further the plans about the north american union (NAU) without a word to the public and the news media dutifully shut their mouths about it. http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=node/2523 Joe Fred Oliff wrote: unfortunately no one is making the policy makers waitch this movie. it is largely preaching to the converted. realist or pessimist,the both still bleed. From: /robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Reply-To: /biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ To: /biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Subject: /[Biofuel] Weird Weather/ Date: /Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:07:44 -0800/ Hello everyone! I talked my sweetheart into renting An Inconvenient Truth over the weekend. She finds it hard to sit through all of the science, but my boys were pretty interested throughout the film. We've had a very strange year, weather-wise, in this area. Back in January, we had the wettest month on record. It came in the middle of a long, rainy but mild winter that blended into an early spring, bringing warm temperatures. Our garden got a real kick-start from the mild temperatures in March and April. This summer ended up being the driest on record. We went for WEEKS without rain. (When I first came to BC to visit my sweetheart back in 1989, it rained at least once, every day during the summer.) Local creeks were so shallow I saw dead adult salmon stranded on the shore. Autumn came with a vengeance though, bringing high winds and heavy rain that saturated the ground. A couple of weeks ago, the remnants of a typhoon slammed into the west coast, bringing 800 mm of rainfall within a 24 hour period, just over the ridgeline from where we live. We've had serious flooding, property damage and drowning deaths in our area. Over the past couple of days, however, a mass of outflowing arctic air has dropped the temperatures precipitously. The wet ground crusted into ice. A frontal system from the Gulf of Alaska brought about 15 cm of very wet snow that fell on the ice and made driving so treacherous, the municipality actually closed the two roads that lead uphill to our neighborhood. (These have since been re-opened.) We've not seen the snowplow because the crews are so busy trying to keep the major routes clear. In the meantime, people are struggling to get their machines uphill, and several have simply parked on the sides of the roads and walked home. (What a unique concept!) Our Toyota has traction control, which I've learned makes the car utterly useless once the wheels start spinning. It's not bad on compact snow, but anything deeper than the bottom of its rims renders the vehicle immobile pretty quickly. In order to get my sweetheart to work this morning, I had to chip ice away from the front wheels and pour warm water around them to melt the ice underneath. What this kind of weather pattern illustrates is that the balance of temperatures and precipitation is changing. We've set several records for rain, heat, drought and snowfall in a single year. The overheated atmosphere is releasing its energy with increasing ferocity, and unless we take SERIOUS action soon, I think we're going to be in for a very wild ride in the near future. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and cold starts
I think I may have misread your questions. It seems you are asking what to do if you already have the water in there, from homebrew Ethanol? Hm. Perhaps a dual tank setup like we use for SVO in diesels. A block heater would probably help, but then you are using alot of electricity -- and is that renewably produced? Z On 11/28/06, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think that adding water would be the right way to go. I think the problem is that ethanol has a higher vapor pressure than gasoline, and in cold weather, it is hard to get it to vaporize into a fuel-air mixture effectively. Gasoline vaporizes much easier, and gets the engine going and initiates the combustion. But water has an even higher vapor pressure than ethanol, plus it is not a fuel, so I don't think it would help. Since all of the commercially produced flex fuel vehicals that I've seen are designed to run E85, I think they just rely on the gasoline content to start in the winter. What bugs me is that I can't buy any flex fuel vehicals that are efficient -- I mean, if I want a flex fuel vehical, I have to upgrade to a full sized pickup or a V8 sedan. Where's the little 4 cylinder efficient flex fuel vehical? Guess it's not all that hard to change out carbureator jets to change the fuel air ratio yourself to allow running ethanol. Z On 11/28/06, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, I've read that people using ethanol, blend in 15 - 20% gasoline to improve cold weather starts. What would one do if they were running on 85 - 90% ethanol : 10 -15% water to improve cold weather starts? Do flex fuel cars have options for block heaters? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and cold starts
i hear toyota and honda have 4cyls that are easily adapted to Flexing. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and cold starts I don't think that adding water would be the right way to go. I think the problem is that ethanol has a higher vapor pressure than gasoline, and in cold weather, it is hard to get it to vaporize into a fuel-air mixture effectively. Gasoline vaporizes much easier, and gets the engine going and initiates the combustion. But water has an even higher vapor pressure than ethanol, plus it is not a fuel, so I don't think it would help. Since all of the commercially produced flex fuel vehicals that I've seen are designed to run E85, I think they just rely on the gasoline content to start in the winter. What bugs me is that I can't buy any flex fuel vehicals that are efficient -- I mean, if I want a flex fuel vehical, I have to upgrade to a full sized pickup or a V8 sedan. Where's the little 4 cylinder efficient flex fuel vehical? Guess it's not all that hard to change out carbureator jets to change the fuel air ratio yourself to allow running ethanol. Z On 11/28/06, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, I've read that people using ethanol, blend in 15 - 20% gasoline to improve cold weather starts. What would one do if they were running on 85 - 90% ethanol : 10 -15% water to improve cold weather starts? Do flex fuel cars have options for block heaters? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.14.19/555 - Release Date: 11/27/2006 6:09 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.14.19/555 - Release Date: 11/27/2006 6:09 PM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] USDA deregulates disputed GMO rice
1.USDA deregulates disputed GMO rice - Reuters 2.'Approval-by-Contamination' - Center for Food Safety EXTRACTS: USDA spokesman said the rice could now be grown without oversight from the department. (item 1) With this decision, USDA is telling agricultural biotechnology companies that it doesn't matter if ... you contaminate the food supply with untested genetically engineered crops, we'll bail you out, said Joseph Mendelson, Legal Director of the Center for Food Safety. In effect, USDA is sanctioning an 'approval-by-contamination' policy that can only increase the likelihood of untested genetically engineered crops entering the food supply in the future, and further erode trust in the wholesomeness of U.S. food overseas. (item 2) --- --- 1.USDA deregulates disputed GMO rice REUTERS, Nov 24 2006 http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=CNstoryID=20 06-11-24T221856Z_01_WAT006629_RTRIDST_0_FOOD-USDA-RICE-URGENT.XMLrpc= 66type=qcna WASHINGTON, Nov 24 (Reuters) - The U.S. Department of Agriculture said on Friday that it has deregulated a strain of genetically altered rice whose discovery this year triggered concern around the world. The U.S. Department of Agriculture's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) today announced that after a thorough review of scientific evidence it will deregulate genetically engineered LLRICE601 based on the fact that it is as safe as its traditionally bred counterparts, USDA said in a statement. The request for deregulation came from Bayer CropScience, a division of Bayer AG (BAYG.DE: Quote, Profile, Research), which notified the government in July that it had found small amounts of LLRICE601 in commercial long-grain rice. That finding led some countries to require certification for some kinds of U.S. rice. USDA spokesman said the rice could now be grown without oversight from the department. --- --- 2.FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE -- November 24, 2006 USDA Gives Rubber-Stamp Market Approval to Genetically Engineered Rice Contaminating Food Supply 'Approval-by-Contamination' Policy Puts Consumers and Environment at Risk, Erodes Trust in U.S. Food USDA Continues to Allow Bayer to Test Experimental Genetically Engineered Crops The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) today granted marketing approval of a genetically-engineered (GE) rice variety following its illegal contamination of the food supply and rice exports, first announced three months ago. The controversial decision was taken despite the insistence of its developer, Bayer CropScience, that it dropped plans to commercialize the variety, known as LibertyLink601 (LL601), five years ago. With this decision, USDA is telling agricultural biotechnology companies that it doesn't matter if you're negligent, if you break the rules, if you contaminate the food supply with untested genetically engineered crops, we'll bail you out, said Joseph Mendelson, Legal Director of the Center for Food Safety. In effect, USDA is sanctioning an 'approval-by-contamination' policy that can only increase the likelihood of untested genetically engineered crops entering the food supply in the future, and further erode trust in the wholesomeness of U.S. food overseas, he added. Mendelson also noted that USDA has still not determined how LL601 entered the rice supply or the extent of the contamination, and that the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has not undertaken a formal assessment of the rice, which is designed to survive direct spraying with the powerful herbicide glufosinate. Experimental, genetically engineered crops like LL601 are prohibited for a reason,Äù said Bill Freese, Science Policy Analyst at Center for Food Safety. ÄúExhaustive testing is required to determine whether or not mutagenic gene-splicing procedures create human health or environmental hazards, and no one has done that analysis on LL601 rice, he added. In comments filed with USDA, the Center for Food Safety (CFS) opposed USDA's consideration of BayerÄôs petition for market approval of LL601 as an abuse of the regulatory process. CFS also blasted USDA for allowing Bayer to black out extensive portions of its petition as confidential business information, and demanded that it be released for public scrutiny and comment before any decision was made. CFS further noted that Bayer might exploit the approval to evade liability for an estimated $150 million in market losses suffered by U.S. farmers because of the episode. The comments also spelled out the potential for LL601 to spread its herbicide-resistance trait to weedy red rice, making it more difficult for farmers to control. LL601 is one of several 'LibertyLink' (LL) rice varieties that have been genetically engineered by Bayer to survive application of BayerÄôs proprietary Liberty¬© herbicide. Liberty kills normal rice, but can be applied directly to LL varieties to kill surrounding weeds. This explains why
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and cold starts
Zeke you have vapor pressure backwards. Lower vapor pressure means less volatile. The boiling point of a liquid is defined as that temperature when the vapor pressure equals atmospheric pressure (760 mm Hg at sea level) Zeke Yewdall wrote: I don't think that adding water would be the right way to go. I think the problem is that ethanol has a higher vapor pressure lower vapor pressure than gasoline, and in cold weather, it is hard to get it to vaporize into a fuel-air mixture effectively. Gasoline vaporizes much easier, and gets the engine going and initiates the combustion. But water has an even higher vapor pressure lower than ethanol, plus it is not a fuel, so I don't think it would help. Since all of the commercially produced flex fuel vehicals that I've seen are designed to run E85, I think they just rely on the gasoline content to start in the winter. the only way to improve cold starts on a vehicle running on ethanol water would be to add a something more volatile (higher vapor pressure) which is miscible with the more polar ethanol water mix. The problem here is that vapor pressure and water solubility tend to be inversely proportional. One guess would be acetone,or possibly methyl ethyl ketone. both should be miscible in ethanol/water but more volatile than either. What bugs me is that I can't buy any flex fuel vehicals that are efficient -- I mean, if I want a flex fuel vehical, I have to upgrade to a full sized pickup or a V8 sedan. Where's the little 4 cylinder efficient flex fuel vehical? Guess it's not all that hard to change out carbureator jets to change the fuel air ratio yourself to allow running ethanol. what's a carburetor? :- Z On 11/28/06, *Thomas Kelly* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, I've read that people using ethanol, blend in 15 - 20% gasoline to improve cold weather starts. What would one do if they were running on 85 - 90% ethanol : 10 -15% water to improve cold weather starts? Do flex fuel cars have options for block heaters? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen, ozarker.org/bob -- Actually we are all atheists. When you understand why you have rejected every other God but one, then you will understand why I have rejected yours. -Author unknown ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax
maybe I am wrong but don't they also export good things as well as bad? Humanitarians like Audrey Hepburn et all going to third world countries to try to do some good? but as someone else on here so eloquently put it: "No good deed goes unprofited". I am trying, really trying, to see some good in everyone. I know that there are some good Americans, the folks on this list are I am sure (I assume) and my Grandma was American, so I know you can't be all bad! PS I apologise most profusely for earlier posting full of typos! From: "Jason Katie" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving HoaxDate: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:07:25 -0600 yeah, a wealth of fullmetal jacket .223's. JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bob Molloy To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax Hi Fred, Did I read you right? That Americans share their wealth? Examples please, Regards, Bob. - Original Message - From: Fred Oliff To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax maybe we ought to re-define what is meant by rich? what is wealth after all if you do not share it? And the Americans do! what is wealth if you do not have your health, but a huge burden? From:"JAMES PHELPS" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving HoaxDate:Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:09:10 -0700snicker snicker snicker, OK specificaly the USA ( richest country in theworld is a quote from a Canadian I met) From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:33:13 -0500 What?Luxembourg doesn't have universal healthcare?JAMES PHELPS wrote:I guess another question would be how this relates to freedom?And why is it the richest country in the world cannot come up with universal health care. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.14.17/553 - Release Date: 11/27/2006 4:00 AM No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.14.17/553 - Release Date: 11/27/2006 4:00 AM ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] CDC Makes Another Health-Harming Pitch For Flu Vaccines
Mercury, in the form of thimerosal or any other form, is not good for any living being. Neither is aluminum. I'd like to know exactly what's in the syringe that contains stuff that destined for my blood stream. Is it unpatriotic to ask? Am I a threat, healthwise, to others if I reject this vaccination as some have implied? I think too many people are too willing to go along with the herd. Always remember, follow the money. Peace, D. Mindock CDC Makes Another Health-Harming Pitch For Flu Vaccines CDC officials are worried that an overstock of flu vaccine could lead to millions of doses being thrown away. This could discourage manufacturers from making as much vaccine in the future. As a result, the CDC is encouraging Americans to get flu shots even after Thanksgiving, which is when public demand generally drops off. More than 110 million doses are being made for the 2006-2007 flu season. This is a record amount; the previous high was 95 million in 2002-2003. That year, 12 million doses went unused and one manufacturer ceased to make shots. This year, CDC officials are promoting November 27 through December 3 as National Influenza Vaccination Week. Meanwhile, PutChildrenFirst.org, an advocacy organization of parents with autistic children, has sounded a warning about thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative found in most flu shots. They contend that thimerosal contributes to autism and other developmental disorders in children. Thimerosal was removed from other childhood vaccinations in 2003, but flu vaccine sold in multidose vials still has the preservative. Yahoo News November 13, 2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Great Fence of America
robert and benita rabello wrote: Snip Fences are meant to keep people/animals in or keep people/animals out? Just asking... They're supposed to protect America from all those terrorists invading from Canada that the US Customs agency can't seem to screen at the border, despite all the harassment they give to our allies and friends. Nah you've got it all wrong Robert; The fence is to protect Canadians from international terrorists like George W. Bush and his megalomaniac followers. It will be built at great expense to the average american joe and great profit to Bush's pals. This will be a big relief to Canadians who remember the previous four puny attempts by american forces to invade and occupy the Great White North. Let me take this opportunity to remind everyone of how we kicked the american asses (and we had to resort to burning down their parliament buildings but they finally got the message). The fence means we won't have to bother to set down our beers and head south to set things right again and we can keep our turbo beavers busy with peaceful work and sit back and try to enjoy the americanized version of our beloved hockey. Game on. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Great Fence of America
Nah I think that one is on the agenda of fascist Quebecistan. We have no objection to it tho. Quebec can do whatever it wants. Cuz they're special. Fred Finch wrote: I would hope that Canada annexes Minnesota before building the fence! On 11/27/06, *Mike Weaver* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You'd think the Canadians would put up their own fence! robert and benita rabello wrote: Fred Oliff wrote: Who gets riich when they build this new fence? Some company affiliated with congressmen and senators. And is there going to be one on the northern borders as well? Yes. This has been a topic of derision among people in BC for the last several weeks. I have a newspaper cartoon that shows Mr. Bush extoling the virtues of America's border with Canada. He's shouting through a megaphone from the top of a barbed wire topped fence, complete with security cameras and a mine field. An astonished Canadian, walking a dog, approaches the US border to hear Mr. Bush say: I cherish the unique and special relationship we have between our two countries. Now, keep your hands where I can see them and step away from the wall! Fences are meant to keep people/animals in or keep people/animals out? Just asking... They're supposed to protect America from all those terrorists invading from Canada that the US Customs agency can't seem to screen at the border, despite all the harassment they give to our allies and friends. I thought Al Gore's comment in An Inconvenient Truth about terrorism vs the environment (and I cannot recall the exact words), was very telling of the present plight we all face. Which, after all, is easier to fix? Admitting there is a problem (has been difficult), awareness that there is a problem is easy (maybe not AS easy) but taking action (on the environment) is just not very popular. No video games were made/sold in the resolution of global climate change (warming). Dealing with the climate issue will have an indirect consequence of significantly reducing our need to project power into the Persian Gulf to defend oil supplies. That would go a long way toward ameliorating the hostility towards us that has been brewing in that region for the past fifty years or so. The other side of the equation, however, will involve solving the Palestinian issue. Of course, I've been talking this way for thirty years now and no one seems willing to listen. My mother thinks we should bomb the rest of the planet, calls my wife an ignorant foreigner (for suggesting that the US spend less money on defense and more on infrastructure and a social safety net) and told me to go to hell for suggesting that people who claim to be Christians should actually reflect a Christ-like attitude. Sadly, this kind of mentality is common enough among American citizens that no substantive policy changes will ever occur. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] The Great Fence of America
Canadians are more savvy than that. Why pay for it ourselves when we could get a bunch of somnambulistic amerikans to do it for us? Lol Mike Weaver wrote: You'd think the Canadians would put up their own fence! robert and benita rabello wrote: Fred Oliff wrote: Who gets riich when they build this new fence? Some company affiliated with congressmen and senators. And is there going to be one on the northern borders as well? Yes. This has been a topic of derision among people in BC for the last several weeks. I have a newspaper cartoon that shows Mr. Bush extoling the virtues of America's border with Canada. He's shouting through a megaphone from the top of a barbed wire topped fence, complete with security cameras and a mine field. An astonished Canadian, walking a dog, approaches the US border to hear Mr. Bush say: I cherish the unique and special relationship we have between our two countries. Now, keep your hands where I can see them and step away from the wall! Fences are meant to keep people/animals in or keep people/animals out? Just asking... They're supposed to protect America from all those terrorists invading from Canada that the US Customs agency can't seem to screen at the border, despite all the harassment they give to our allies and friends. I thought Al Gore's comment in An Inconvenient Truth about terrorism vs the environment (and I cannot recall the exact words), was very telling of the present plight we all face. Which, after all, is easier to fix? Admitting there is a problem (has been difficult), awareness that there is a problem is easy (maybe not AS easy) but taking action (on the environment) is just not very popular. No video games were made/sold in the resolution of global climate change (warming). Dealing with the climate issue will have an indirect consequence of significantly reducing our need to project power into the Persian Gulf to defend oil supplies. That would go a long way toward ameliorating the hostility towards us that has been brewing in that region for the past fifty years or so. The other side of the equation, however, will involve solving the Palestinian issue. Of course, I've been talking this way for thirty years now and no one seems willing to listen. My mother thinks we should bomb the rest of the planet, calls my wife an ignorant foreigner (for suggesting that the US spend less money on defense and more on infrastructure and a social safety net) and told me to go to hell for suggesting that people who claim to be Christians should actually reflect a Christ-like attitude. Sadly, this kind of mentality is common enough among American citizens that no substantive policy changes will ever occur. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and cold starts
There you go Zeke A second tank. It also answered my next question. What do you do when you are running on homebrew that is not anhydrous simply because you can't achieve 99+%, and you are low on fuel? ex Traveling and have to fill up with store-bought fuel; E-85 or even gasoline. Answer: Fill the second tank, flip a switch and off you go. Thanks Zeke, Tom - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and cold starts I think I may have misread your questions. It seems you are asking what to do if you already have the water in there, from homebrew Ethanol? Hm. Perhaps a dual tank setup like we use for SVO in diesels. A block heater would probably help, but then you are using alot of electricity -- and is that renewably produced? Z On 11/28/06, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think that adding water would be the right way to go. I think the problem is that ethanol has a higher vapor pressure than gasoline, and in cold weather, it is hard to get it to vaporize into a fuel-air mixture effectively. Gasoline vaporizes much easier, and gets the engine going and initiates the combustion. But water has an even higher vapor pressure than ethanol, plus it is not a fuel, so I don't think it would help. Since all of the commercially produced flex fuel vehicals that I've seen are designed to run E85, I think they just rely on the gasoline content to start in the winter. What bugs me is that I can't buy any flex fuel vehicals that are efficient -- I mean, if I want a flex fuel vehical, I have to upgrade to a full sized pickup or a V8 sedan. Where's the little 4 cylinder efficient flex fuel vehical? Guess it's not all that hard to change out carbureator jets to change the fuel air ratio yourself to allow running ethanol. Z On 11/28/06, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, I've read that people using ethanol, blend in 15 - 20% gasoline to improve cold weather starts. What would one do if they were running on 85 - 90% ethanol : 10 -15% water to improve cold weather starts? Do flex fuel cars have options for block heaters? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and cold starts
Hi Bob. You mentioned methy ethyl ketone (MEK) as a possible cold start additive to an ethanol/water mix. I was hoping that methyl butyl ketone might be used instead. It is on the list of substances that can be used to denature ethanol. - It is much less soluble in water than MEK (14g/L vs 290g/L) - Higher vapor pressure??? (vapor pressure is inversely proportional to solubility) - It's boiling point is higher than MET lower vapor pressure? (The boiling point of a liquid is defined as that temperature when the vapor pressure equals atmospheric pressure.) Help me Bob, I'm confused. Is methyl butyl ketone a good candidate for denaturing ethanol w. water in it and, can the mix then be used as engine fuel? ORIs it more likely to be used to denature anhydrous ethanol that is intended to be used as a solvent? Tom - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and cold starts Zeke you have vapor pressure backwards. Lower vapor pressure means less volatile. The boiling point of a liquid is defined as that temperature when the vapor pressure equals atmospheric pressure (760 mm Hg at sea level) Zeke Yewdall wrote: I don't think that adding water would be the right way to go. I think the problem is that ethanol has a higher vapor pressure lower vapor pressure than gasoline, and in cold weather, it is hard to get it to vaporize into a fuel-air mixture effectively. Gasoline vaporizes much easier, and gets the engine going and initiates the combustion. But water has an even higher vapor pressure lower than ethanol, plus it is not a fuel, so I don't think it would help. Since all of the commercially produced flex fuel vehicals that I've seen are designed to run E85, I think they just rely on the gasoline content to start in the winter. the only way to improve cold starts on a vehicle running on ethanol water would be to add a something more volatile (higher vapor pressure) which is miscible with the more polar ethanol water mix. The problem here is that vapor pressure and water solubility tend to be inversely proportional. One guess would be acetone,or possibly methyl ethyl ketone. both should be miscible in ethanol/water but more volatile than either. What bugs me is that I can't buy any flex fuel vehicals that are efficient -- I mean, if I want a flex fuel vehical, I have to upgrade to a full sized pickup or a V8 sedan. Where's the little 4 cylinder efficient flex fuel vehical? Guess it's not all that hard to change out carbureator jets to change the fuel air ratio yourself to allow running ethanol. what's a carburetor? :- Z On 11/28/06, *Thomas Kelly* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, I've read that people using ethanol, blend in 15 - 20% gasoline to improve cold weather starts. What would one do if they were running on 85 - 90% ethanol : 10 -15% water to improve cold weather starts? Do flex fuel cars have options for block heaters? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen, ozarker.org/bob -- Actually we are all atheists. When you understand why you have rejected every other God but one, then you will understand why I have rejected yours. -Author unknown ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and cold starts
Oops. You are right. But my reasoning was right, if you reverse what i said about vapor pressure. Hmmm, methyl ethyle ketone as I recall that stuff is pretty hazardous, but perhaps no more so than unleaded gasoline. Z On 11/28/06, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zeke you have vapor pressure backwards. Lower vapor pressure means less volatile. The boiling point of a liquid is defined as that temperature when the vapor pressure equals atmospheric pressure (760 mm Hg at sea level) Zeke Yewdall wrote: I don't think that adding water would be the right way to go. I think the problem is that ethanol has a higher vapor pressure lower vapor pressure than gasoline, and in cold weather, it is hard to get it to vaporize into a fuel-air mixture effectively. Gasoline vaporizes much easier, and gets the engine going and initiates the combustion. But water has an even higher vapor pressure lower than ethanol, plus it is not a fuel, so I don't think it would help. Since all of the commercially produced flex fuel vehicals that I've seen are designed to run E85, I think they just rely on the gasoline content to start in the winter. the only way to improve cold starts on a vehicle running on ethanol water would be to add a something more volatile (higher vapor pressure) which is miscible with the more polar ethanol water mix. The problem here is that vapor pressure and water solubility tend to be inversely proportional. One guess would be acetone,or possibly methyl ethyl ketone. both should be miscible in ethanol/water but more volatile than either. What bugs me is that I can't buy any flex fuel vehicals that are efficient -- I mean, if I want a flex fuel vehical, I have to upgrade to a full sized pickup or a V8 sedan. Where's the little 4 cylinder efficient flex fuel vehical? Guess it's not all that hard to change out carbureator jets to change the fuel air ratio yourself to allow running ethanol. what's a carburetor? :- Z On 11/28/06, *Thomas Kelly* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, I've read that people using ethanol, blend in 15 - 20% gasoline to improve cold weather starts. What would one do if they were running on 85 - 90% ethanol : 10 -15% water to improve cold weather starts? Do flex fuel cars have options for block heaters? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen, ozarker.org/bob -- Actually we are all atheists. When you understand why you have rejected every other God but one, then you will understand why I have rejected yours. -Author unknown ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] {Spam?} Re: Ethanol and cold starts
Helo Thomas. Brazilian VW cars from the 80's designed for ethanol used a set up consisting in a small tank with a small pump, the size of a translucent windshield washer tank with a pump designed for gasoline use. It was translucent to know the amount of fuel left in it. The pump send gasoline to a small spray jet in the carburettor throat. In earlier models the pump was activated before start, manually by a switch on the dashboard and it was kept on until the engine was warm enough to run on ethyl alcohol ( 93%). lt came with a warning light on dashboard (a LED) near the main tank gauge to tell if the gasoline pump was on. The fuel used for the tank was high octane gasoline. Best. Juan Boveda -Original- From : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Thomas Kelly Sent : 11/ 28 / 2006 13:12 For : biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and cold starts There you go Zeke A second tank. It also answered my next question. What do you do when you are running on homebrew that is not anhydrous simply because you can't achieve 99+%, and you are low on fuel? ex Traveling and have to fill up with store-bought fuel; E-85 or even gasoline. Answer: Fill the second tank, flip a switch and off you go. Thanks Zeke, Tom - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and cold starts I think I may have misread your questions. It seems you are asking what to do if you already have the water in there, from homebrew Ethanol? Hm. Perhaps a dual tank setup like we use for SVO in diesels. A block heater would probably help, but then you are using alot of electricity -- and is that renewably produced? Z On 11/28/06, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think that adding water would be the right way to go. I think the problem is that ethanol has a higher vapor pressure than gasoline, and in cold weather, it is hard to get it to vaporize into a fuel-air mixture effectively. Gasoline vaporizes much easier, and gets the engine going and initiates the combustion. But water has an even higher vapor pressure than ethanol, plus it is not a fuel, so I don't think it would help. Since all of the commercially produced flex fuel vehicals that I've seen are designed to run E85, I think they just rely on the gasoline content to start in the winter. What bugs me is that I can't buy any flex fuel vehicals that are efficient -- I mean, if I want a flex fuel vehical, I have to upgrade to a full sized pickup or a V8 sedan. Where's the little 4 cylinder efficient flex fuel vehical? Guess it's not all that hard to change out carbureator jets to change the fuel air ratio yourself to allow running ethanol. Z On 11/28/06, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, I've read that people using ethanol, blend in 15 - 20% gasoline to improve cold weather starts. What would one do if they were running on 85 - 90% ethanol : 10 -15% water to improve cold weather starts? Do flex fuel cars have options for block heaters? Thanks, Tom Information from NOD32 This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System for Linux Mail Servers. http://www.eset.com___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and cold starts
they keep barrels of it in the blastproof paint bunker in the harley factory up by the airport. i dont know how reactive it is, but apparently it burns REALLY fast. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and cold starts Oops. You are right. But my reasoning was right, if you reverse what i said about vapor pressure. Hmmm, methyl ethyle ketone as I recall that stuff is pretty hazardous, but perhaps no more so than unleaded gasoline. Z On 11/28/06, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zeke you have vapor pressure backwards. Lower vapor pressure means less volatile. The boiling point of a liquid is defined as that temperature when the vapor pressure equals atmospheric pressure (760 mm Hg at sea level) Zeke Yewdall wrote: I don't think that adding water would be the right way to go. I think the problem is that ethanol has a higher vapor pressure lower vapor pressure than gasoline, and in cold weather, it is hard to get it to vaporize into a fuel-air mixture effectively. Gasoline vaporizes much easier, and gets the engine going and initiates the combustion. But water has an even higher vapor pressure lower than ethanol, plus it is not a fuel, so I don't think it would help. Since all of the commercially produced flex fuel vehicals that I've seen are designed to run E85, I think they just rely on the gasoline content to start in the winter. the only way to improve cold starts on a vehicle running on ethanol water would be to add a something more volatile (higher vapor pressure) which is miscible with the more polar ethanol water mix. The problem here is that vapor pressure and water solubility tend to be inversely proportional. One guess would be acetone,or possibly methyl ethyl ketone. both should be miscible in ethanol/water but more volatile than either. What bugs me is that I can't buy any flex fuel vehicals that are efficient -- I mean, if I want a flex fuel vehical, I have to upgrade to a full sized pickup or a V8 sedan. Where's the little 4 cylinder efficient flex fuel vehical? Guess it's not all that hard to change out carbureator jets to change the fuel air ratio yourself to allow running ethanol. what's a carburetor? :- Z On 11/28/06, *Thomas Kelly* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, I've read that people using ethanol, blend in 15 - 20% gasoline to improve cold weather starts. What would one do if they were running on 85 - 90% ethanol : 10 -15% water to improve cold weather starts? Do flex fuel cars have options for block heaters? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen, ozarker.org/bob -- Actually we are all atheists. When you understand why you have rejected every other God but one, then you will understand why I have rejected yours. -Author unknown ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax
Hi D It will be recorded in the same method as always. The lie will satisfy those that don't want to or are incapable of thinking about it And those of us that the lie dosen't sit comfortable with will have to scratch thru for the truth, but of course by then it will to late to do anything about it. You probably don't believe me , but I am an optomist Leo D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Leo, Right on! History as written in books is largely either incomplete or wrong, sometimes intentionally so. I wonder how two historians, one leaning to the right and the other leaning to the left, will record the history of the Bush/Cheney administration. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: leo bunyan To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax I'm still here D Funny how history repeats itself or stays the same Really it's a bit pointless teaching history in schools as nobody seems to learn from it Leo D. Mindock wrote: Thanks Bob. Good input!!! I put that hoax article out there to see what the reponse would be. I hope Leo gets your comeback. I don't want him to suffer from spinmeisterism. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Bob Molloy To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax Hi All, Hoax indeed. This revisionist version of the Pilgrims Progress is pure unadulterated neo-con spin. Our masters continually rewrite history to make it fit their political ambitions. As always, the aim is to blind the Great Unwashed and line them up behind whatever their current scheme is to a) stay on top, b) hog all the goodies, and c) keep the peasants in line. We don't need to know any facts at all about the first colonists except the obvious that starving people are desperate. They will even stoop to working in the fields if necessary just to stay alive, which would suggest that political orientation is much lower on the individual's hierachy of needs. Yes, some did die in the first years. How many of inherited diseases, poor housing, worse diet and plain homesickness is just a guess. What we can be sure of is that crop failure would be a likely outcome under alien conditions. We also know that the Founding Fathers learned quickly and soon adapted. However, if an assessment of socialism as a working concept is needed let us - instead of making assumptions about the outcome of socialism in the first colony - take a look at how it actually works out in practice in modern states. See below for a re-run of the recent Scientific American article. On the question of efficient production and use of resources, how about this fact (taken from Freedom Next Time, John Pilger's latest book: The US military budget for one year is the equivalent of $30,000 an hour for every hour since Christ was born. Bob. From: 9F183414B7FScientific American, Oct. 16, 2006 [Printer-friendly version] The Social Welfare State, Beyond Ideology Are higher taxes and strong social safety nets antagonistic to a prosperous market economy? The evidence is now in. By Jeffrey D. Sachs One of the great challenges of sustainable development is to combine society's desires for economic prosperity and social security. For decades economists and politicians have debated how to reconcile the undoubted power of markets with the reassuring protections of social insurance. America's supply-siders claim that the best way to achieve well-being for America's poor is by spurring rapid economic growth and that the higher taxes needed to fund high levels of social insurance would cripple prosperity. Austrian-born free-market economist Friedrich August von Hayek suggested in the 1940s that high taxation would be a road to serfdom, a threat to freedom itself. Most of the debate in the U.S. is clouded by vested interests and by ideology. Yet there is by now a rich empirical record to judge these issues scientifically. The evidence may be found by comparing a group of relatively free-market economies that have low to moderate rates of taxation and social outlays with a group of social-welfare states that have high rates of taxation and social outlays. Not coincidentally, the low-tax, high-income countries are mostly English-speaking ones that share a direct historical lineage with 19th-century Britain and its theories of economic laissez-faire. These countries include Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, the U.K. and the U.S. The high-tax, high-income states are the Nordic social democracies, notably Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden, which have been governed by left-of-center social democratic parties for much or all of the post-World War II era. They combine a healthy respect for market forces with a strong commitment to antipoverty programs.
Re: [Biofuel] Weird Weather
On Nov 27, 2006, at 8:05 PM, Bob Molloy wrote: Icebergs larger than ocean liners were sighted off the port of Dunedin, New Zealand, last week, well north of the Roaring Forties, barely five weeks before mid-summer. Watch out when the Antarctic ice starts melting/calving. That stuff, along with Greenland (but not the rest of the Arctic), can really start raising sea level. -K___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] any feedback on Cascade Commentaries?
i was wandering about the 'net today, and came across this page called Cascade Commentaries. i had never heard of it before and wondered if they were worth their salt? i see that they have the empirical measurements for the BD process on their page, but they say nothing about washing or titrating. the author is an Angela Eckhardt, but other than that i know nothing about them. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.14.19/555 - Release Date: 11/27/2006 6:09 PM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] More Weird Weather
Hello again! I just read in the paper that the dump of snow we got on Sunday broke the standing record for snowfall in a single day, a record that has stood since the late 1800's when local people began recording snowfall. This was followed by arctic outflow, which dropped temperatures precipitously, and guess what--on Monday we set a record for low temperatures! But this climate change stuff isn't real, right? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather
This year was hotter than the records set in 1930 in Wyoming ND SD NE and it was a tie in Montana. A caveat when discussing weather in relation to Global warming. I often hear people say so much for global warming on days like this in Montana ( -40 F wind chills +10 deg F still) but they really don't understand that this is nothing - Montana has not had a normal winter for well over 6 years. Jim - Original Message - From: robert and benita rabellomailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgmailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:11 PM Subject: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather Hello again! I just read in the paper that the dump of snow we got on Sunday broke the standing record for snowfall in a single day, a record that has stood since the late 1800's when local people began recording snowfall. This was followed by arctic outflow, which dropped temperatures precipitously, and guess what--on Monday we set a record for low temperatures! But this climate change stuff isn't real, right? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.cahttp://www.newadventure.ca/ Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather
JAMES PHELPS wrote: This year was hotter than the records set in 1930 in Wyoming ND SD NE and it was a tie in Montana. A caveat when discussing weather in relation to Global warming. I often hear people say so much for global warming on days like this in Montana ( -40 F wind chills +10 deg F still) but they really don't understand that this is nothing - Montana has not had a normal winter for well over 6 years. My point in using these extreme examples, is that climate change results in weather patterns that fall outside of norms. In simple terms, the earth acts like a giant heat engine. All of the energy that's getting trapped in the atmosphere gets expressed in the form of stronger high pressures (warm air) and lower low pressures (cold air). The warmth in the oceans is transpiring into the atmosphere as vapor and condensing as either rain or snow, depending on the air temperature. We've had an enormous amount of precipitation recently, which means that somewhere on earth, LESS rain and snow is falling. Drought and deluge are part of the shifting climate, as is the increasing severity of the storms we're seeing. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather
i have a theory about how all of this climate change is going to proceed. all the gases and toxins that are being shoved into the atmosphere will hold heat and all this fantastic energy will hyperactivate the weather, the rain will pull particulates and volatiles out of the air in the rainshadows. the droughts will clear the landscape in certain key equatorial areas which will be prime ground for containment, and over hundreds (maybe thousands) of years, the water cycle will carry the toxins to the sun blasted equator where they will be deposited as salts and other contaminated solids and be truly sequestered (or become rancid festering swamps where no creature would dare go). granted during this time, humanity and most of the weaker species on earth will be killed off... but hey, what can i say? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: robert and benita rabello To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather JAMES PHELPS wrote: This year was hotter than the records set in 1930 in Wyoming ND SD NE and it was a tie in Montana. A caveat when discussing weather in relation to Global warming. I often hear people say so much for global warming on days like this in Montana ( -40 F wind chills +10 deg F still) but they really don't understand that this is nothing - Montana has not had a normal winter for well over 6 years. My point in using these extreme examples, is that climate change results in weather patterns that fall outside of norms. In simple terms, the earth acts like a giant heat engine. All of the energy that's getting trapped in the atmosphere gets expressed in the form of stronger high pressures (warm air) and lower low pressures (cold air). The warmth in the oceans is transpiring into the atmosphere as vapor and condensing as either rain or snow, depending on the air temperature. We've had an enormous amount of precipitation recently, which means that somewhere on earth, LESS rain and snow is falling. Drought and deluge are part of the shifting climate, as is the increasing severity of the storms we're seeing. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.14.19/555 - Release Date: 11/27/2006 6:09 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.14.19/555 - Release Date: 11/27/2006 6:09 PM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather
Yikes I shall have to move from my coastal home to higher ground or be awashed out to sea in not too distant future. Better earlier than insufferably later, even if Iam round the world from record snowfalls.Emissions affect whole world.Here is another piece from a doctorr for the benefit of everybody: Difficult to believe but true !!! Subject: FW: Dengue CureJuice of Papaya Leaf Dear All, I would like to share this interesting discovery from a classmate's son who has just recovered from dengue fever. Apparently, his son was in the critical stage at the SJMC ICU when his pallet counts drops to 15 after 15 litres of blood transfusion. His father was so worried that he seeks another friend's recommendation and his son was saved. He confessed to me that he give his son raw juice of the papaya leaves. From a pallet count of 45 after 20 litres of blood transfusion, and after drinking the raw papaya leaf juice, his pallet count jumps instantly to 135. Even the doctors and nurses were surprised. After the second day he was discharged. So he ask me to pass this good news around. Accordingly it is raw papaya leaves, 2 pcs just cleaned and pound and squeeze with filter cloth. You will only get one tablespoon per leaf. So two tablespoon per serving once a day. Do not boil or cook or rinse with hot water, it will loose its strength. Only the leafy part and no stem or sap. It is very bitter and you have to swallow it like Won Low Kat. But it works. Papaya Juice - Cure for Dengue You may have heard this elsewhere but if not I am glad to inform you that papaya juice is a natural cure for dengue fever. As dengue fever is rampant now, I think it's good to share this with all. A friend of mine had dengue last year. It was a very serious situation for her as her platelet count had dropped to 28,000 after 3 days in hospital and water has started to fill up her lung. She had difficulty in breathing. She was only 32-year old. Doctor says there's no cure for dengue. We just have to wait for her body immune system to build up resistance against dengue and fight its own battle. She already had 2 blood transfusion and all of us were praying very hard as her platelet continued to drop since the first day she was admitted. Fortunately her mother-in-law heard that papaya juice would help to reduce the fever and got some papaya leaves, pounded them and squeeze the juice out for her. The next day, her platelet count started to increase, her fever subside. We continued to feed her with papaya juice and she recovered after 3 days!!! Amazing but it's true. It's believed one's body would be overheated when one is down with dengue and that also caused the patient to have fever. Papaya juice has cooling effect. Thus, it helps to reduce the heatiness in one's body, thus the fever will go away. I found that it's also good when one is having sore throat or suffering from heatiness. Dr Sumedha Bajaj Bombay Hospital 12, Marine Lines, Mumbai - 400 020, India. 022-2067676 * Fax No. 2080871 robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello again! I just read in the paper that the dump of snow we got on Sunday broke the standing record for snowfall in a single day, a record that has stood since the late 1800's when local people began recording snowfall. This was followed by arctic outflow, which dropped temperatures precipitously, and guess what--on Monday we set a record for low temperatures! But this climate change stuff isn't real, right? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] was...More Weird Weather
if papaya oil has cooling properties in the human body, wouldnt glycerine do similar things? it lowers body temp and superhydrates the blood. i have no idea about platelet counts, but it seems to me it would be good for fever and dehydrating sicknesses like influenza. GASP! another possible tool against disease that doesnt involve a vaccine! its terrorist i tell you! Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Manick Harris To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 11:32 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather Yikes I shall have to move from my coastal home to higher ground or be awashed out to sea in not too distant future. Better earlier than insufferably later, even if Iam round the world from record snowfalls.Emissions affect whole world.Here is another piece from a doctorr for the benefit of everybody: Difficult to believe but true !!! Subject: FW: Dengue CureJuice of Papaya Leaf Dear All, I would like to share this interesting discovery from a classmate's son who has just recovered from dengue fever. Apparently, his son was in the critical stage at the SJMC ICU when his pallet counts drops to 15 after 15 litres of blood transfusion. His father was so worried that he seeks another friend's recommendation and his son was saved. He confessed to me that he give his son raw juice of the papaya leaves. From a pallet count of 45 after 20 litres of blood transfusion, and after drinking the raw papaya leaf juice, his pallet count jumps instantly to 135. Even the doctors and nurses were surprised. After the second day he was discharged. So he ask me to pass this good news around. Accordingly it is raw papaya leaves, 2 pcs just cleaned and pound and squeeze with filter cloth. You will only get one tablespoon per leaf. So two tablespoon per serving once a day. Do not boil or cook or rinse with hot water, it will loose its strength. Only the leafy part and no stem or sap. It is very bitter and you have to swallow it like Won Low Kat. But it works. Papaya Juice - Cure for Dengue You may have heard this elsewhere but if not I am glad to inform you that papaya juice is a natural cure for dengue fever. As dengue fever is rampant now, I think it's good to share this with all. A friend of mine had dengue last year. It was a very serious situation for her as her platelet count had dropped to 28,000 after 3 days in hospital and water has started to fill up her lung. She had difficulty in breathing. She was only 32-year old. Doctor says there's no cure for dengue. We just have to wait for her body immune system to build up resistance against dengue and fight its own battle. She already had 2 blood transfusion and all of us were praying very hard as her platelet continued to drop since the first day she was admitted. Fortunately her mother-in-law heard that papaya juice would help to reduce the fever and got some papaya leaves, pounded them and squeeze the juice out for her. The next day, her platelet count started to increase, her fever subside. We continued to feed her with papaya juice and she recovered after 3 days!!! Amazing but it's true. It's believed one's body would be overheated when one is down with dengue and that also caused the patient to have fever. Papaya juice has cooling effect. Thus, it helps to reduce the heatiness in one's body, thus the fever will go away. I found that it's also good when one is having sore throat or suffering from heatiness. Dr Sumedha Bajaj Bombay Hospital 12, Marine Lines, Mumbai - 400 020, India. 022-2067676 * Fax No. 2080871 robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello again! I just read in the paper that the dump of snow we got on Sunday broke the standing record for snowfall in a single day, a record that has stood since the late 1800's when local people began recording snowfall. This was followed by arctic outflow, which dropped temperatures precipitously, and guess what--on Monday we set a record for low temperatures! But this climate change stuff isn't real, right? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
