Re: [Biofuel] humanure to humus
I heard a story I don't know how true it is. In China The night soil was collected each morning and dug into field that where used for growing crops. If you were unfortunate enough to have a bout of constipation you were beaten with a stick until you passed what was necessary. Thus giving rise to the saying Having the S##T beat out of you Interesting eh Leo Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mary Lynn I think it's the same principle .. what goes in is what comes out. I read a great deal and don't necessarily remember exactly where my source was but, I understand that it was standard practice for little men with small wagons to take the overnight pots from the homes in the cities in Japan and use that human manure as fertilizer in the country .. All over the East, not just Japan. See.: http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010122king/ffc.html F. H. King: Farmers of Forty Centuries Full text online. If you can't access it go here first and sign in at the Agriculture Library: http://www.soilandhealth.org/ our returning American military people thought this was on the side of disgusting (American Puritan backgrounds getting into their usual judgments concerning other cultures and practices) .. but .. whatever I read supported this practice because the diet of the average Japanese family was very low in meat. Not exactly, in some places it was quite high in meat, as well as a lot of fish. I can't even remember reading anything about this one .. probably just something I've heard said forever .. but the best manure comes from the grass eating animals which leaves out the average American, the dogs and the cats etc because of the poor quality and large amount of meat that is consumed while dogs and cats are both basically carnivores. Biodynamic farmers set special store by cow manure, and when it's properly practised Biodynamics is a high-quality system, but IMHO that's because of the whole system, not just the cowdung. Cow and sheep manure are the basis of the ley farming system, which is based on rotating pastures, but pigs have a place in that scheme too, omnivores. We've demonstrated here that the same thing can be achieved by ley farming with poultry. We're using geese, which are mostly vegetarian, and chickens and Muscovy ducks, both omnivores. There's no doubt about the fertility value of their manure. I have a set of three manuals on Organic Recycling published by the FAO (UN Food and Agriculture Organization) which give analytical data on all those manures, plus exotic stuff like tiger dung, lion dung and indeed human excreta. After all, Nature isn't choosy about it, all manure is recycled, with benefit to the soil, it's designed that way. You can make high-quality compost with any kind of manure. But I think you're confusing the quality of the compost - its value as a fertiliser - with the efficiency of the composting process as a sanitation method. Once again, any kind of manure can be safely composted if the usual parameters are followed (C:N ratio, moisture content, aeration, bulk). I said in a previous message what the temperature requirements are, according to the UN and according to the US EPA, and if those requirements are met then the compost will be pathogen-free. A competent compost maker can easily do that with any manure. So with that being the basis of my thinking on this subject, my guess is that a general study will not support human to fertilizer as being a good practice because that same general study would also have all those McDonalds Happy Meals in the mix. Junk food composts just fine, and all the additives get broken down too. Also, compost only requires about 20% manure, what the other 80% consists of can make a big difference. .. but if there ever were an actual study done then perhaps a study comparing horse, cow, chicken manure from small family farms against the same species manure from factory farms and feed lots. In the US especially you'd be contending with large amounts of antibiotics in the feedlot stuff, for one thing, not exactly friendly to the composting microorganisms, but it seems they manage anyway. I agree that the health of the animals (and the system) is an important factor. Farmers converting to organic methods find that both the quality of the livestock manure and the quality of the compost it makes improve as the soil fertility improves, and the nutritional quality of the feed with it. So I don't think it makes much if any difference which species the manure comes from, but I'd agree that some cows/pigs/chickens/humans are more equal than others. We've brought in both cow manure and chicken manure from outside, but we were very choosy about where we got it from. Most cattle have diarrhoea all the time. There are feral cattle on Lantau Island in Hong Kong, where we used to live, fending for themselves on the mountain slopes: you can pick up a fresh turd from one of those cows and you
Re: [Biofuel] Slouching Toward Chimeras
I wouldn't worry too much about human mice escaping into the environment. The first thing the mice would do would be to start a religion. Then the religion would split into different sects and they would start fighting each other and kill each other off. Ken - Original Message From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 6:11:37 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Slouching Toward Chimeras Scientists injected human brain cells into mouse fetuses, creating a strain of mice that were approximately 1 percent human. Dr. Weissman is actively considering a follow-up experiment that would produce mice whose brains are 100 percent human. What if the mice escaped the laboratory and began to proliferate in the outside environment? What might be the ecological consequences of mice who think like human beings, let loose in nature? Dr. Weissman says he would keep a tight rein on the mice and if they showed any signs of humanness he would kill them. Hardly reassuring. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] oil news
http://donklephant.com/2006/12/26/2nd-largest-oil-field-drying-up-faster/ 12/27/06 - 2nd Largest Oil Field Drying Up Faster It was an incredible revelation last week that the second largest oil field in the world is exhausted and past its peak output. Yet that is what the Kuwait Oil Company revealed about its Burgan field. The peak output of the Burgan oil field will now be around 1.7 million barrels per day, and not the two million barrels per day forecast for the rest of the fields 30 to 40 years of life. Engineers had tried to maintain 1.9 million barrels per day but that 1.7 million is the optimum rate. Kuwait will now spend some $3 million a year for the next year to boost output and exports from other fields. http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,456212,00.html 12/27/06 - Will Iraq's Oil Blessing Become a Curse? When the country with the third largest oil reserves in the world debates the future of its endowment during a time of civil war, people sit up and take notice. The Iraqi government is working on a new hydrocarbons law that will set the course for the country's oil sector and determine where its vast revenues will flow. The consequences for such a law in such a state are huge. Not only could it determine the future shape of the Iraqi federation -- as regional governments battle with Baghdad's central authority over rights to the riches -- but it could put much of Iraqi oil into the hands of foreign oil companies. Governments are legally committing themselves to oil deals that they've negotiated from a position of weakness. And, the contracts typically span decades. Companies argue they need long-term legal security to justify huge investments in risky countries; the current draft recommends 15 to 20 years. Critics say the US is leaning on the IMF and World Bank to push Iraq into signing oil contracts fast, so western firms can secure the oil before Chinese, Indian and Russian firms do. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Slouching Toward Chimeras
Pinky tells me his friend the Brain assures him you are wrong Kirk Ken Riznyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't worry too much about human mice escaping into the environment. The first thing the mice would do would be to start a religion. Then the religion would split into different sects and they would start fighting each other and kill each other off. Ken - Original Message From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 6:11:37 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Slouching Toward Chimeras Scientists injected human brain cells into mouse fetuses, creating a strain of mice that were approximately 1 percent human. Dr. Weissman is actively considering a follow-up experiment that would produce mice whose brains are 100 percent human. What if the mice escaped the laboratory and began to proliferate in the outside environment? What might be the ecological consequences of mice who think like human beings, let loose in nature? Dr. Weissman says he would keep a tight rein on the mice and if they showed any signs of humanness he would kill them. Hardly reassuring. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] EPA going to reduce hybrid mileage by ignoring electricdriving.
well...if you take into consideration the fact that their standards revolve around the gasoline powered engines, i dont see this as an entirely bad thing. the large vehicles will take a huge PR hit, and nothing gives a company more incentive to improve than bad PR and lower sales. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 1:27 AM Subject: [Biofuel] EPA going to reduce hybrid mileage by ignoring electricdriving. ++ | Hybrids Beware? EPA Revises Mileage Standards | | from the lies-damn-lies-and-downhill-coasters dept. | | posted by timothy on Tuesday December 26, @16:04 (Power) | | http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/26/2021204 | ++ Shivetya writes The federal Environmental Protection Agency announced a [0]new system for determining the fuel economy of many cars and trucks. Hardest hit will be hybrids as all-electric driving is not considered. At the same time, many medium-duty vehicles will get rated, but not have to be published until 2011 This move to more realistic ratings will severely reduce the high numbers some cars have posted. Discuss this story at: http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=06/12/26/2021204 Links: 0. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1212-05.htm __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/605 - Release Date: 12/27/2006 12:21 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/605 - Release Date: 12/27/2006 12:21 PM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
I should have specified - battery to vehicle weight 30% or greater. Oregon Bob - Original Message - From: William Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion? Read Bob Brant's book Build Your Own Electric Vehicle. He say s 30% or greater. Good Luck, Oregon Bob - Original Message - From: Luke Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 9:03 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion? I'm thinking of attempting a conversion on my 1976 Chevy 1/2 ton van. Maybe a simple 96-volt system...series wire eight 12V car batteries that I find lying around. The range would suck, but this is more just for shits and giggles anyways. Also, feel free to shoot me down here, but I've heard of folks using their starter motors as drive motors for the cars themselves...anyone care to comment? Thanks, Luke __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Methanol Suppliers
Hi all, I need a better supply of methanol. My local supplier is charging $5.75/gallon. AND, I have to call ahead so they can re-package it. Can anyone point me to a better source in south central Pennsylvania? Or, I suppose, I'd be willing to have it shipped but, I'd prefer to buy as locally as possible. Thanks, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Fwd: seacrete --steve spence
tried sending this direct but it wouldnt work Kirk You aware of this? http://www.stanford.edu/~erlee/seament/smp_refs.htm http://www.stanford.edu/~erlee/seament/seament.htm The process of applying an electric current to a cathode/anode grid in sea water, growing a concrete like structure. I remember articles about this maybe 20 years ago or so in either Popular Science or Popular Mechanics. If you have info on this topic, please contact me, Steve Spence Dave Irons asked about innovative methods to build a submersible or habitat. I read about a novel method and material some time ago which __ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: seacrete --steve spence
Spence isn't here. He used to be a member here too but he stormed out in fury - twice! - because he couldn't take what people were saying about Bushco and no WMDs or whatever but he didn't have any counter-arguments except that he hated it. He's welcome to think whatever he likes but it's a pity he can't be more honest about it and stop protesting so loudly after all this time (also two years). Not that it matters much. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg62415.html Best Keith tried sending this direct but it wouldnt work Kirk You aware of this? http://www.stanford.edu/~erlee/seament/smp_refs.htm http://www.stanford.edu/~erlee/seament/seament.htm The process of applying an electric current to a cathode/anode grid in sea water, growing a concrete like structure. I remember articles about this maybe 20 years ago or so in either http://www.popsci.com/Popular Science or http://www.popularmechanics.com/Popular Mechanics. If you have info on this topic, please contact me, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Steve Spence Dave Irons asked about innovative methods to build a submersible or habitat. I read about a novel method and material some time ago which __ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: seacrete --steve spence
thanks Keith Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Spence isn't here. He used to be a member here too but he stormed out in fury - twice! - because he couldn't take what people were saying about Bushco and no WMDs or whatever but he didn't have any counter-arguments except that he hated it. He's welcome to think whatever he likes but it's a pity he can't be more honest about it and stop protesting so loudly after all this time (also two years). Not that it matters much. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg62415.html Best Keith tried sending this direct but it wouldnt work Kirk You aware of this? http://www.stanford.edu/~erlee/seament/smp_refs.htm http://www.stanford.edu/~erlee/seament/seament.htm The process of applying an electric current to a cathode/anode grid in sea water, growing a concrete like structure. I remember articles about this maybe 20 years ago or so in either Popular Science or Popular Mechanics. If you have info on this topic, please contact me, Steve Spence Dave Irons asked about innovative methods to build a submersible or habitat. I read about a novel method and material some time ago which __ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Water Powered Engine / Electrolysis
Just trying to pick the brains of the rest of the world This is pertaining to gasoline engines being run off of hydrogen from an electrolysis reaction onboard the vehicle. http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/feb2/carplans_doc.htm What is the probability of this working correctly? Anyone done it? Thanks, Andrew ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Yes on corporate accountability, No on paraquat!
See also: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg67463.html [Biofuel] Paraquat and palm oil http://www.panna.org/ Wed, 27 Dec 2006 PAN ALERT: Yes on corporate accountability, No on paraquat! http://www.panna.org/resources/resources.html Resource Library http://www.panna.org/campaigns/campaigns.html Campaigns and Projects If you already voted to convict Syngenta, thank you! If you haven't, please join the more than 25,000 people who voted to hold the Swiss chemical giant accountable for paraquat poisonings around the world. One of the most toxic herbicides in the world, paraquat is a major product of multinational Syngenta, the world's largest pesticide producer. Forbidden for use in Switzerland since 1990, paraquat is widely used in countries of Southern Hemisphere by plantation workers and peasant farmers to kill weeds. http://action.panna.org/content.jsp?content_KEY=2252t=actionTemplate .dwtTake Action Now! Demand that Syngenta stop producing paraquat now. PAN groups and many others are collaborating with Swiss NGO Berne Declaration's People's Vote - a broad campaign to bring public attention to Syngenta's inhuman business practices that value corporate profit above human life. A spoonful of concentrated paraquat can kill an adult. Many thousands of people are poisoned every year because they lack protective equipment or do not know how to avoid paraquat dangers. Thousands more die a painful death using this deadly but easily available poison as a suicide agent-most victims are just crying out for attention, but paraquat proves fatal. We ask you to join us in demanding that Syngenta stop producing this deadly poison. Help the Berne Declaration send 50,000 messages by the end of the year. http://www.stop-paraquat.net/Click here to vote for a verdict on Syngenta. Thank you! Resources http://www.panna.org/resources/documents/sygentaBackgrounder.dv.html Paraquat - A Dangerous Poison http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/actives/paraquat.htm Paraquat Fact Sheet - PAN UK http://www.stop-paraquat.net/ The Berne Declaration ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
