Re: [Biofuel] Can these people be trusted with our planet?
Hello again David Sorry, I gave the wrong url for Andrew Brown's article, here's the correct one: http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=7803 Reviews: 'Dawkins the dogmatist' by Andrew Brown | Prospect Magazine October 2006 issue 127 Keith Addison wrote: KA weak, so I didn't post it. Andrew Brown (an ex-colleague at The KA Independent) is more reasoned, worth posting. I didn't know you used to write for The Independent, it's the second best British daily. Well, whatever. I've written for most of them, and I was also a staffer at The Independent for a couple of years. Staffers tend to chuckle a bit at its august claims. I stopped reading the online version a long time ago because with half of the articles there's a short summary and then you have to pay a quid to read the whole thing. I don't read the online version either, but you can usually find the articles in full without paying, even if it's a few days later. KA You're mistaken if you think I necessarily agree with news pieces I KA post here. OK, point taken. KA I'm a journalist, after all. Does it inform? Does it KA broaden the debate? Does it add depth? In this case I think it does, KA so I posted it. The article doesn't add anything to the debate. It does. To give an example: The God Delusion trumpets the fact that its author was recently voted one of the world's three leading intellectuals. This survey took place among the readers of Prospect magazine in November 2005. So what did this same Prospect magazine make of the book? Its reviewer was shocked at this incurious, dogmatic, rambling, and self-contradictory book. The title of the review? Dawkins the dogmatist. That's from McGrath's piece, it makes a valid point. You're looking at the atheist vs religionist debate itself, but it's not the arguments per se so much as the situation that's changed - it's secularists who're attacking Dawkins now, not just religionists. Yet you offer him and his attackable book as an antidote to creationist extremism. The tedious atheists also commit atrocities line is wheeled out time and time again, as if it effectively countered the assertion that religion is harmful. It's nothing new. Attacking Dawkins for failing to explain the persistence of religion in the face of rationality is scraping the barrel. That wasn't the primary intention of The God Delusion. KA actually I think the whole KA religionist vs atheist tussle misses the mark. A disturbingly large percentage of the population of the world's economically and militarily most powerful country, which is also the world's biggest emitter of greenhouse gases, seriously believe that a mythical being called Jesus will during their lifetimes descend from the clouds like a superhero and escort his true believers to heaven and then destroy the planet and the rest of of humanity with it. These people therefore don't have the slightest interest in doing anything about environment/climate issues. Religion is relevant. Yes, yes, David, and if you dig back a little (or a lot) you'll find that the first and main source of information here about that has been me. Eg: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg21063.html Re: [biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq Keith Addison Sun, 16 Feb 2003 Of course religion is relevant, nonetheless the whole religionist vs atheist tussle misses the mark. IMHO. As I said, I'm not taking sides, yet you seem to assume that because I've posted an article which criticises Dawkins and his book I'm somehow condoning excesses of religious extremism such as the Armageddon-craving insanities of America's millennial dispensationalist madmen. Interesting that your argument gravitates so quickly to this extreme of religion, or pseudo-religion (though that is how the thread started, see below). McGrath seems to have a point when he labels Dawkins' book secular fundamentalism, as Andrew Brown labels it dogmatic. You refer to all the journalists who are jumping so eagerly onto the Dawkins-bashing bandwagon, but they're not God-fearing churchgoing religionists, McGrath says they're often people who would previously have supported Dawkins but now they're running for cover: The dogmatism of the work has been the subject of intense criticism in the secular press. Not the religious press. Maybe Dawkins should be arguing with Tim LaHaye these days. But confronting one fundamentalist with the opposite kind of fundamentalist doesn't solve any problems, it's a bit like fighting violence, all you get is more violence. The thread started with a US school banning Al Gore's global warming movie because a fundamentalist Christian creationist parent objected that The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD. I must say I didn't see Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins as a very effective counter to that. You'd do better in the list archives (and emerge unassailed by Harris's
Re: [Biofuel] Advice to Bush: Break up Monsanto
Break it up? Burial is more suitable. Kirk :-) Not in MY backyard! (The ducks wouldn't like it.) But you do have to dismantle it very thoroughly first. See How to kill a mammoth, from Roberto Verzola, secretary-general of the Philippine Greens: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg30628.html [biofuel] Mammoth corporations That done, whatever the funeral arrangements, Bob Dylan's advice is still best: And I'll stand on your grave till I'm sure that you're dead. Best Keith Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How the World Works Advice to Bush: Break up Monsanto Andrew Leonard http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2007/01/23/break_up_monsanto/ Alexei Barrionuevo's roundup of all things ethanol in today's New York Times, setting the stage for an expected announcement tonight by President Bush calling for significantly increased ethanol consumption in the United States, is a generally good introduction to the topic. But one fragment caught my eye: Responding to concerns that there just isn't enough corn to supply expected future demand, Agriculture Secretary Mike Johans was described as confident that more corn will emerge to ease the pain of higher grain prices, as seed companies improve yields. Seed companies? Now, who might that be? As of 2005, worldwide, 10 companies controlled about 50 percent of the global seed business. At the top of the heap are just three companies, Monsanto, Dupont and Syngenta. Industry concentration is continuing to proceed apace. Monsanto is currently waiting for antitrust approval to complete its merger with the 11th largest seed company, Delta Pine Land. All three companies have been snapping up smaller firms at every opportunity. All three are also huge chemical and pesticide conglomerates that are aggressively pursuing advanced genetic modification technologies. So when Secretary Johans talks about seed companies improving yields, what he's really saying is that a tiny group of huge multinational chemical companies will be introducing a steady stream of new transgenic corn strains, in a frantic attempt to keep innovating humanity's way out of an energy crisis. Let's take a break today from worrying about whether scientists are properly evaluating the potential risks to human health and the environment from transgenic research. I've only just started reading Denise Caruso's Intervention: Confronting the Real Risks of Genetic Engineering and Life on a Biotech Planet, a clear contender for best book yet on that topic, and so we'll save a more detailed discussion of the problem for later. Here's a different angle: A few years back, the USDA publicized research that found that seed industry consolidation had led to a decrease in research and development intensity. In a classic display of what happens when a market is locked up by a small number of players, competition suffers and the pressure to innovate slackens: ...increased competition in RD, concluded the researchers, as indicated by low levels of market concentration and the participation of more competing firms in the GM crop approval process, is positively related to RD intensity. As the number of firms declined through mergers and acquisitions, the intensity of RD fell. If President Bush and Mike Johans want to put some muscle behind their faith that new breeds of corn will deliver ever-higher yields, maybe they ought to do something about the continuing consolidation of control over the seed industry. Stop Monsanto's merger with Delta Pine Land, which will give the St. Louis giant effective control over cotton seed. Even better, break it up. Let a hundred seed companies bloom, instead of just a few. Just trying to be helpful here. President Bush has some really low poll approval ratings going into tonight's State of the Union speech. It's time for bold moves! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] another do it yourself project
Very cool indeed. Might have to look into a few of those for the house; we don't get much wind down in the hole, but the roof of the house would be perfect to lift them up into the winds... -Kurt fujee01 wrote: http://www.mdpub.com/Wind_Turbine/index.html Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail QA http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/index;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx?link=asksid=396546091 for great tips from Yahoo! Answers http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/index;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx?link=asksid=396546091 users. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sharing Sustainable Solutions
http://www.bagelhole.org/ Um... sharing them perhaps, but only after borrowing them from elsewhere, without acknowledgement, in some cases at least. This for instance: http://www.bagelhole.org/?page=275 Bagelhole.org Information Center for Low-tech sustainability That comes straight from our site, without a please nor a thankyou nor even an acknowledgement or a link. It's a straightforward lift, graphics, scans, layout, everything. But they've left out the second page. Couldn't even do it properly. Go here: MOTHER's Waste Oil Heater http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me4.html Instructions in a nutshell -- with photographs http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me5.html Bagelhole has since added permission from MEN at the end, and Journey to Forever's layout and typography have been dumped, along with the diagrams, and the Table of Contents of the Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel manual has been added, since it's linked at the end of the JtF page, but without any content or link to the content. Pretty useless. I don't really care much, as with the folks who rip off this stuff from our site and other sites and sell it at eBay. It's just the principle, or lack of it. Naah. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Boom Cheers Grain Farmers, Pinches Food Makers
How about less meat and healthier humans. Terry Dyck From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Boom Cheers Grain Farmers, Pinches Food Makers Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:20:42 -0600 this just means that farmers wont be able to afford feeding their animals CORN and be forced to graze pastures again. better meat and healthier animals, not too bad i guess... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/648 - Release Date: 1/23/2007 11:04 AM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Can these people be trusted with our planet?
Hello Keith KA To give an example: The God Delusion trumpets the fact that its KA author was recently voted one of the world's three leading KA intellectuals. I searched for the corresponding terms (I've got TGD as an ebook); the book contains no such passage. Perhaps McGrath was refering to a blurb on the cover of the paper version, in which case Dawkins can hardly be held accountable for that. This would be entirely in keeping with the distortion and intellectual dishonesty so often displayed by religionists (McGrath is a theologian, not a secularist). I've read several of Dawkins' books I've seen heard numerous interviews with him and talks given by him. He's not interested in self-aggrandisement. I'd be the first to lambast Dawkins if I thought he were on an ego trip. McGrath is upset because an interview that Dawkins conducted with him during the making of the TV programme The Root Of All Evil wasn't included in the programme. It was the people at Channel 4 (I think) who decided what bits of footage were going to be used, not Dawkins. He (Dawkins) is also on record as having said that he was not at all happy with the programme's title. His intention was not to assert that religion is the only or even the main cause of evil. KA ... The title of the KA review? Dawkins the dogmatist. If instead of religion, Dawkins had written a similarly robust criticism of Marxism, or economic libertarianism, or astrology, do you think people would be accusing him of dogmatic fundamentalism? Religion is granted a special privilege; we're not allowed to criticise it. If someone points out that there is not one single shred of evidence to support its claims, religionists and theologians get indignant. KA That's from McGrath's piece, it makes a valid point. I beg to differ. A disturbingly large percentage of the population of the world's economically and militarily most powerful country, which is also the world's biggest emitter of greenhouse gases, seriously believe that a mythical being called Jesus will during their lifetimes descend from the clouds like a superhero and escort his true believers to heaven and then destroy the planet and the rest of of humanity with it. These people therefore don't have the slightest interest in doing anything about environment/climate issues. Religion is relevant. KA Yes, yes, David, and if you dig back a little (or a lot) you'll find KA that the first and main source of information here about that has KA been me. I know. I lurked in this list for a long time before I posted anything, and this was where I first learned about the existence of the armageddonists. I wrote the above because other people might be following this thread who don't know about the armageddonists and the degree of influence they wield. KA As I said, I'm not taking sides, yet you seem to assume that because KA I've posted an article which criticises Dawkins and his book I'm KA somehow condoning excesses of religious extremism such as the KA Armageddon-craving insanities of America's millennial KA dispensationalist madmen. I hope it's clear now that I most definitely did not make such an assumption. KA McGrath says they're often KA people who would previously have supported Dawkins McGrath the theologian would previously have supported Dawkins? KA I must say I didn't see Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins as a very KA effective counter to that. Who or what would in your view be an effective counter? KA You'd do better in the list archives (and KA emerge unassailed by Harris's anti-Islam jingoism and apologisms for KA torture, furthermore). I searched in the archive for sam+harris+torture found nothing apart from this current thread. I'm not entirely comfortable about his position on torture, but that doesn't invalidate his criticism of religion. As to anti-Islam jingoism: political correctness requires us to say that Islam is a religion of peace and it's being hijacked by extremists. Islam is a not a religion of peace. The reason most Muslims aren't homicidal maniacs is that they don't take their religion as seriously as they might. A genuine religion of peace cannot have extremists. A genuine religion of peace would not have any passages in its scriptures that could be construed as sanctioning or calling for violence. KA Not a polarised response? Just take a look KA at how you've tried to pigeonhole me into the enemy camp. If you're KA not for us you're against us? I hope you realise now that I had no such intention. KA Doesn't your KA imagination stretch that far? Give it some exercise. You're making some rather unwarranted assumptions about the elasticity of my imagination. I can conceive of, and do not categorically rule out, the existence of some kind of spiritual dimension. But since it's perfectly possible to live morally and ethically without such a belief, I don't give the matter very much thought. KA That is apparent. There's been some discussion quite
Re: [Biofuel] Sharing Sustainable Solutions
I was wondering why Journey to Forever wasn't included amongst their links. On 1/27/07, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.bagelhole.org/ Um... sharing them perhaps, but only after borrowing them from elsewhere, without acknowledgement, in some cases at least. This for instance: http://www.bagelhole.org/?page=275 Bagelhole.org Information Center for Low-tech sustainability That comes straight from our site, without a please nor a thankyou nor even an acknowledgement or a link. It's a straightforward lift, graphics, scans, layout, everything. But they've left out the second page. Couldn't even do it properly. Go here: MOTHER's Waste Oil Heater http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me4.html Instructions in a nutshell -- with photographs http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me5.html Bagelhole has since added permission from MEN at the end, and Journey to Forever's layout and typography have been dumped, along with the diagrams, and the Table of Contents of the Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel manual has been added, since it's linked at the end of the JtF page, but without any content or link to the content. Pretty useless. I don't really care much, as with the folks who rip off this stuff from our site and other sites and sell it at eBay. It's just the principle, or lack of it. Naah. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] 6 stroke motor
It's not so much peak water, as peak usueable water. If we want freshwater, the oceans are out (or at least expensive to turn into fresh water). That's the problem -- if areas become more arid and glaciers melt, even more of the earth's water will be locked up as saltwater. Z On 1/26/07, doug swanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I hear the term peak water and know the idea behind it, but I can't wrap my mind around the idea that water will become scarcer as the globe warms, unless it escapes our atmosphere into space. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Boom Cheers Grain Farmers, Pinches Food Makers
Well, less meat would probably be a good idea for the average american, but meat can be had from animals that don't eat corn. It's sort of two different issues, that because of our factory farming structure, get treated like one. And actually, according to The Omivoire's Dilemma, how healthy meat is for us may be as much dependent on what the meat eats, as what kind it is. For example, he mentions that the new corn fed factory Salmon may lack many of the omega 6 fatty acids that are supposed to be the great thing about eating fish... Z On 1/27/07, Terry Dyck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about less meat and healthier humans. Terry Dyck From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Boom Cheers Grain Farmers, Pinches Food Makers Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:20:42 -0600 this just means that farmers wont be able to afford feeding their animals CORN and be forced to graze pastures again. better meat and healthier animals, not too bad i guess... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/648 - Release Date: 1/23/2007 11:04 AM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Can these people be trusted with our planet?
I am certainly not afraid of reasoned debate on the subject of religion. Arriving at the place in life where I've become a devout Christian resulted from a journey that exposed me to MANY different views--including those of atheists, toward whom I maintain respect that only develops from understanding. Here's a chapter segment that may further inform this discussion: http://www.simonsays.com/content/book.cfm?tab=1pid=520179agid=2 While I don't agree with some of what the author claims, for the most part he presents a pretty compelling connection between the extremists who call themselves Christians (but are not) and fascism. There is a very compelling allure to power among people who feel their values have long been trampled by the larger, secular society. Like it or not, the western world in general, and America in particular, are comprised of secular people and controlled by secular institutions. (The secular nature of American government is clearly enshrined in the Constitution!) To those who have felt like outsiders, ridiculed for their beliefs and shouted down by movements promoting minority rights (whether these are intended to protect racial minorities, women or homosexuals) the call to political action in the name of God sounds like a very good thing. It's a seductive deception. It's a broad and easy path to follow. However, those who are pressing the hardest for a transformation of the world into a church state are doing so not out of a love for God, but a lust for power. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice The Long Journey New Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] orgone chips?
How does this work? Orgone creates a Negative-Entropy field, i.e. Life-force energy. Not quite sure what this is, seems sort of like the Jedi stuff, but I'll read on The Orgone field brings coherence to the electricity traveling across a wire. Electricity is already a pretty darn coherent source of energy, compared to thermal energy for example. Normally up to 90% of the electric juice is lost due to heat and friction. Hmmm. No electrical system in the US will pass inspection if it loses more than 5% in the wires. Not to mention that if it really lost 90% in the wires, houses would be catching on fire left and right (imagine trying to turn on your TV -- 100 watts, and having to dissipate 900 watts of heat in the wires in the wall... Or is the 900 watts all the way back to the power plant, in which case do we have to place the orgone crystals all along the whole transmission line to have the desired effect? The percentage of lost current drops as Orgone is applied to electrical devices. Actually, current is not lost in wires (assuming the insulation is okay). Voltage, yes, but not current Orgone will also protect you from the negative effects of High EMF fields. High EMF fields weaken your electro-magnetic fields, which is your immune system. Huh? I don't pretend to think that we understand the effect the EMF fields on life yet, and they may well be adverse, but I didn't think that the immune system was based on self generated electro-magnetic fields, except in so far that all chemistry depends on electric charges. Placing Orgone in your home will make these magnetic fields compatible with human biology. Assuming that these fields are messing with human biology, then the only way to stop that is to stop the fields, right? Maybe not, but if so, then you either have to shield from them which I think would be alot harder than merely placing crystals somewhere in your house, or not generate them (meaning, not have the electricity flowing through the wires in your house) We have a win-win situation, improve your health and reduce your electric bills. You can also carry around these Orgone chips in your pocket for protection from what? EMF's as you walk around the city, I guess? and to draw in good fortune. Oh good, they can give you good luck too. http://www.orgoneproducts.org/orgone_chips.php Sorry, but I'm a bit skeptical ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] 6 stroke motor
Yea I guess peak usable or peak easily attainable would be more accurate, but awkward. Doug S.; Yes water vapor will condense and fall to the planet's surface SOMEWHERE, however replenishing to it's original source may be a bit of chance. Particularly if the source was an underground aquafier . When I worked in the oil patch I aften introduced chemicals into prehistoric oceans deep underground. As I did so I often wondered if I was permanately polluting a potential source of water that may be needed no matter the cost. Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. Zeke Yewdall wrote: It's not so much peak water, as peak usueable water. If we want freshwater, the oceans are out (or at least expensive to turn into fresh water). That's the problem -- if areas become more arid and glaciers melt, even more of the earth's water will be locked up as saltwater. Z On 1/26/07, *doug swanson* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I hear the term peak water and know the idea behind it, but I can't wrap my mind around the idea that water will become scarcer as the globe warms, unless it escapes our atmosphere into space. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.10/651 - Release Date: 1/24/2007 6:48 PM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
