[Biofuel] Burbank thornless cactus
http://openlibrary.org/details/lutherburbankssp00luthrich - Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel!
Peak Coal, Peak Oil, any guesses how long to Peak Water? A recent editorial by our small town weekly publisher, along with my Congressman's email newsletter reinforces, few in leadership positions are ready suggest that we conserve resources. I guess some of those who call themselves conservatives have no interest in being conservative when it come to consuming shared natural resources. Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel!
water is an ash. the end result of oxidizing hydrogen. it's a reversible reaction that takes energy to accomplish. then, you have oxygen and hydrogen in the correct quantities to oxidize the hydrogen again, releasing energy... it takes energy to accomplish this reversible reaction. imagine if you were to separate carbon and oxygen from carbon dioxide. it too could be a reversible reaction... the problem with this scheme is that it takes more energy to rip apart a molecule than what we get back when we reassemble the molecule. i can see how electricity might become the next diminishing resource, if all the hummers and suvs were rigged to run on electrolyzed water. where is all this electricity going to come from? brown outs and blackouts have indicated that there are times when we're using this energy source to its limits. if everyone was to use additional electricity to electrolyze water to keep up their wasteful driving habits, electric prices would rise accordingly, and the 'solution' would be to make more plants that make electricity. 'clean coal' and nuclear would be touted as the solution, since solar to electric conversion is still too expensive. this gentleman's claim that his car runs on water is incorrect, since the report indicates that it's a water/gasoline hybrid. it takes gasoline to run, using some of the alternator's energy to electrolyze water, (the extra load on the alternator to do this is paid for in gasoline) and while it probably does make the vehicle run more efficiently in terms of better combustion, it still takes gasoline to keep the process going. an alternative, the entirely water burning car, would need to have batteries that need charging to convert the water as it is used, or the water would have to be broken down and stored between trips. there's a lot of work being done in electrolyzing water more efficiently, but to make a self contained system that extracts a surplus of energy is: over unity perpetual motion etc. I'm not going to invest in something like that until I see it running without a stop at the battery charger or gas station... ever. doug swanson Jason Mier wrote: looks like a neat little toy, maybe i need to try some when i next come across a cheap welder? From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel! Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:43:02 -0700 http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/RhodesGas/index.html I think its just a Browns Gas Torch. I have no sound on this PC so I could not tell what was being said. When get home I will watch it. We have all known that you can electrolyze water. On 7/16/07, MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok List...what's up with this? Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: John DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Arvilla [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Pat DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mike DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:30 PM Subject: water and electricity as fuel! boy, this could get us all going in the right direction: http://livedigital.com/content/287275/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ http://liveearth.msn.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Contentment comes not from having more, but from wanting less. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * All generalizations are false. Including this one. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
[Biofuel] Allergies (was: Organic Farming Yields)
I suppose most folks are aware that there is a radical increase in food allergies or sensitivities worldwide, that is growing all the time. Folks becoming intolerant to food products in ways never even heard of just a generation ago. I've heard conjecture that the base causality may possibly be traceable to the radical increases in worldwide personal hygiene and the strong trend to urbanization with folks being exposed less and less to regular ole dirt. While that kinda makes sense to me, I keep thinking that it may be at least as likely that the root cause may be found in the decrease in the quality of the food supply. Not in calories or even in proteins and vitamins, but the drastic increase in 'artificial' toxins (pesticides and herbicides) in the food supply around the world. Has anyone read or heard of any developing hypothesis along these lines? Just curious. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel!
Doug Younker wrote: Peak Coal, Peak Oil, any guesses how long to Peak Water? From what I've read, 2022 to 2027, at current rates. These figures don't take into account that the entire northern hemisphere is seeing decreased average annual rainfall. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel!
Couldn't agree with you more, Doug, especially as regards electrical generating capacity, etc., which has been a growing concern of mine. Here I am trying to figure out how to do the electrical system in the house I'm planning, trying to move as many functions as I can to sources other than mains electricity, like direct solar for water and space heating, biogas for cooking, wind for lighting, etc.; and now its suggested that I use all the kilowatt-hours I've saved, and then some, to get myself from A to B. It's not making sense. One thing, though. I apologise in advance for being tedious in repeating it, and it is tangential to the point you're making. I know what you mean by their wasteful driving habits: but I insist it's not so much a case of wasteful habits as a wasteful structure of needs and facilities. People's lives are structured in such a way that they need to move too frequently to too diffuse a range of destinations, and have a very inappropriate range of facilities at their disposal to meet this need. This condition is brought about mainly by things being located in the wrong place; and that is brought about mainly by those things belonging to the wrong people. The longer we see the problem of transportation as a matter of habit, or preference, or culture, the less understanding we will have of the mechanics of the issues involved. -Dawie - Original Message From: doug swanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, 17 July, 2007 12:25:59 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel! water is an ash. the end result of oxidizing hydrogen. it's a reversible reaction that takes energy to accomplish. then, you have oxygen and hydrogen in the correct quantities to oxidize the hydrogen again, releasing energy... it takes energy to accomplish this reversible reaction. imagine if you were to separate carbon and oxygen from carbon dioxide. it too could be a reversible reaction... the problem with this scheme is that it takes more energy to rip apart a molecule than what we get back when we reassemble the molecule. i can see how electricity might become the next diminishing resource, if all the hummers and suvs were rigged to run on electrolyzed water. where is all this electricity going to come from? brown outs and blackouts have indicated that there are times when we're using this energy source to its limits. if everyone was to use additional electricity to electrolyze water to keep up their wasteful driving habits, electric prices would rise accordingly, and the 'solution' would be to make more plants that make electricity. 'clean coal' and nuclear would be touted as the solution, since solar to electric conversion is still too expensive. this gentleman's claim that his car runs on water is incorrect, since the report indicates that it's a water/gasoline hybrid. it takes gasoline to run, using some of the alternator's energy to electrolyze water, (the extra load on the alternator to do this is paid for in gasoline) and while it probably does make the vehicle run more efficiently in terms of better combustion, it still takes gasoline to keep the process going. an alternative, the entirely water burning car, would need to have batteries that need charging to convert the water as it is used, or the water would have to be broken down and stored between trips. there's a lot of work being done in electrolyzing water more efficiently, but to make a self contained system that extracts a surplus of energy is: over unity perpetual motion etc. I'm not going to invest in something like that until I see it running without a stop at the battery charger or gas station... ever. doug swanson ___ Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Murdoch to buy Dow Jones
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070717/dow_jones_news_corp.html Murdoch to buy Dow Jones Co. 5 billion - Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel!
(the extra load on the alternator to do this is paid for in gasoline) Depends on the efficiency change produced by using hydrogen to propagate the flame. In old engines it worked well. I understand the wedge combustion chamber (Honda technology) overcomes this and the mixture already burns lean. The catalytic converter is proof of loss - ideally it should not be needed. All the combustion should happen over the piston. Kirk doug swanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: water is an ash. the end result of oxidizing hydrogen. it's a reversible reaction that takes energy to accomplish. then, you have oxygen and hydrogen in the correct quantities to oxidize the hydrogen again, releasing energy... it takes energy to accomplish this reversible reaction. imagine if you were to separate carbon and oxygen from carbon dioxide. it too could be a reversible reaction... the problem with this scheme is that it takes more energy to rip apart a molecule than what we get back when we reassemble the molecule. i can see how electricity might become the next diminishing resource, if all the hummers and suvs were rigged to run on electrolyzed water. where is all this electricity going to come from? brown outs and blackouts have indicated that there are times when we're using this energy source to its limits. if everyone was to use additional electricity to electrolyze water to keep up their wasteful driving habits, electric prices would rise accordingly, and the 'solution' would be to make more plants that make electricity. 'clean coal' and nuclear would be touted as the solution, since solar to electric conversion is still too expensive. this gentleman's claim that his car runs on water is incorrect, since the report indicates that it's a water/gasoline hybrid. it takes gasoline to run, using some of the alternator's energy to electrolyze water, (the extra load on the alternator to do this is paid for in gasoline) and while it probably does make the vehicle run more efficiently in terms of better combustion, it still takes gasoline to keep the process going. an alternative, the entirely water burning car, would need to have batteries that need charging to convert the water as it is used, or the water would have to be broken down and stored between trips. there's a lot of work being done in electrolyzing water more efficiently, but to make a self contained system that extracts a surplus of energy is: over unity perpetual motion etc. I'm not going to invest in something like that until I see it running without a stop at the battery charger or gas station... ever. doug swanson Jason Mier wrote: looks like a neat little toy, maybe i need to try some when i next come across a cheap welder? From: Jeromie Reeves Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel! Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:43:02 -0700 http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/RhodesGas/index.html I think its just a Browns Gas Torch. I have no sound on this PC so I could not tell what was being said. When get home I will watch it. We have all known that you can electrolyze water. On 7/16/07, MK DuPree wrote: Ok List...what's up with this? Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: John DuPree To: Arvilla ; Pat DuPree ; Mike DuPree Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:30 PM Subject: water and electricity as fuel! boy, this could get us all going in the right direction: http://livedigital.com/content/287275/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ http://liveearth.msn.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Contentment comes not from having more, but from wanting less. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [Biofuel] Allergies (was: Organic Farming Yields)
Also the proliferation of Frankenfood. If you buy commercial products you are eating it. Monsanto has done more evil than Stalin or Hitler. We will be with these improvements forever. Not only a crime against humanity, a crime against nature. Pillars of the community. Monsanto rats. Nukes are pikers compared to GM. It at least has a half life. Kirk Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suppose most folks are aware that there is a radical increase in food allergies or sensitivities worldwide, that is growing all the time. Folks becoming intolerant to food products in ways never even heard of just a generation ago. I've heard conjecture that the base causality may possibly be traceable to the radical increases in worldwide personal hygiene and the strong trend to urbanization with folks being exposed less and less to regular ole dirt. While that kinda makes sense to me, I keep thinking that it may be at least as likely that the root cause may be found in the decrease in the quality of the food supply. Not in calories or even in proteins and vitamins, but the drastic increase in 'artificial' toxins (pesticides and herbicides) in the food supply around the world. Has anyone read or heard of any developing hypothesis along these lines? Just curious. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Allergies
Hey Chip I have been thinking along lines not quite the same but related. Has anyone else noticed this year a step change amongst your circle of friends in the amount of respiratory complaints? I have and have had some sysmptoms myself and I know I am mildly allergic to ragweed but it is not the season yet for that and in the spring this year (when I am never bothered by allergies) I had some allergy like symptoms. I'm wondering if the increase in GMO pollen is having an effect?? Joe Chip Mefford wrote: I suppose most folks are aware that there is a radical increase in food allergies or sensitivities worldwide, that is growing all the time. Folks becoming intolerant to food products in ways never even heard of just a generation ago. I've heard conjecture that the base causality may possibly be traceable to the radical increases in worldwide personal hygiene and the strong trend to urbanization with folks being exposed less and less to regular ole dirt. While that kinda makes sense to me, I keep thinking that it may be at least as likely that the root cause may be found in the decrease in the quality of the food supply. Not in calories or even in proteins and vitamins, but the drastic increase in 'artificial' toxins (pesticides and herbicides) in the food supply around the world. Has anyone read or heard of any developing hypothesis along these lines? Just curious. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel!
Hi Chip and all, Marq De Villiers book ´Water, The fate of our most precious resource¨ was written in 2000. It seems to be a fairly well annoted source. A couple of key points he makes is that China was using groundwater to produce 70% of its harvest. Soils were salting up, water tables dropping and so the government there took land and thus water out of farming. The water not used was sent to industry since you could make 50 times the income from the water invested. Then they take the money made in industry and bought food. (and thus water) It seems unsustainable to me. If it takes 1000 cubic meters of water to produce a ton of grain then grain represents both soil nutrients, time and large amounts of water.Most of that grain will probably be purchased from unsustainable monoculture utilizing nonrenewable groundwater, and shipped using cheap oil. As this unravels, as it must, the world is in for a shock. That is why I´m worried. Tom Irwin From:Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel!Date:Tue, 17 Jul 2007 06:56:09 -0400Doug Younker wrote: Peak Coal, Peak Oil, any guesses how long to Peak Water? From what I've read, 2022 to 2027, at currentrates. These figures don't take into account thatthe entire northern hemisphere is seeing decreased averageannual rainfall.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel!
I see this as just another example of how nature dances and humans hack. What I mean is that in regard to your comment about how an oxidation reaction can be run backwards given enough energy input and where is all this energy going to come from, well plants are very good at separating carbon from oxygen and the power comes from the sun of course. We could emulate this using solar panels to create electricity to sparate hydrogen and oxygen but whereas nature's way is so elegant, ours stinks of brute force and waste. Still, given all the toxics and energy waste in producing such a system it is not as ugly as burning petroleum at first glance. Of course over unity is a joke and always will be. There is no free lunch. I'm not sure if the car works this way but one potential benefit would be to recapture some of the energy used in moving the vehicle when braking. If regenerative braking was used to form a bunch of oxygen-hydrogen which could be used immediately in the next acceleration phase the overall efficiency of the vehicle could be dramatically improved. The idea would not be to use an alternator driven by the engine to produce the fuel but rather the inertia which would otherwise be wasted as heat in braking. This is an idea Rod and I bounced around. Perhaps we'll get around to testing it if we can just get the G8 to agree to the 36 hour day. Joe doug swanson wrote: water is an ash. the end result of oxidizing hydrogen. it's a reversible reaction that takes energy to accomplish. then, you have oxygen and hydrogen in the correct quantities to oxidize the hydrogen again, releasing energy... it takes energy to accomplish this reversible reaction. imagine if you were to separate carbon and oxygen from carbon dioxide. it too could be a reversible reaction... the problem with this scheme is that it takes more energy to rip apart a molecule than what we get back when we reassemble the molecule. i can see how electricity might become the next diminishing resource, if all the hummers and suvs were rigged to run on electrolyzed water. where is all this electricity going to come from? brown outs and blackouts have indicated that there are times when we're using this energy source to its limits. if everyone was to use additional electricity to electrolyze water to keep up their wasteful driving habits, electric prices would rise accordingly, and the 'solution' would be to make more plants that make electricity. 'clean coal' and nuclear would be touted as the solution, since solar to electric conversion is still too expensive. this gentleman's claim that his car runs on water is incorrect, since the report indicates that it's a water/gasoline hybrid. it takes gasoline to run, using some of the alternator's energy to electrolyze water, (the extra load on the alternator to do this is paid for in gasoline) and while it probably does make the vehicle run more efficiently in terms of better combustion, it still takes gasoline to keep the process going. an alternative, the entirely water burning car, would need to have batteries that need charging to convert the water as it is used, or the water would have to be broken down and stored between trips. there's a lot of work being done in electrolyzing water more efficiently, but to make a self contained system that extracts a surplus of energy is: over unity perpetual motion etc. I'm not going to invest in something like that until I see it running without a stop at the battery charger or gas station... ever. doug swanson Jason Mier wrote: looks like a neat little toy, maybe i need to try some when i next come across a cheap welder? From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel! Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:43:02 -0700 http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/RhodesGas/index.html I think its just a Browns Gas Torch. I have no sound on this PC so I could not tell what was being said. When get home I will watch it. We have all known that you can electrolyze water. On 7/16/07, MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok List...what's up with this? Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: John DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Arvilla [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Pat DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mike DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:30 PM Subject: water and electricity as fuel! boy, this could get us all going in the right direction: http://livedigital.com/content/287275/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and
Re: [Biofuel] Allergies (was: Organic Farming Yields)
Hi Chip I suppose most folks are aware that there is a radical increase in food allergies or sensitivities worldwide, that is growing all the time. Folks becoming intolerant to food products in ways never even heard of just a generation ago. I've heard conjecture that the base causality may possibly be traceable to the radical increases in worldwide personal hygiene and the strong trend to urbanization with folks being exposed less and less to regular ole dirt. While that kinda makes sense to me, I keep thinking that it may be at least as likely that the root cause may be found in the decrease in the quality of the food supply. Not in calories or even in proteins and vitamins, but the drastic increase in 'artificial' toxins (pesticides and herbicides) in the food supply around the world. Has anyone read or heard of any developing hypothesis along these lines? Just curious. -- The average Englishman eats 10 pounds (4.5 kg) of food additives a year. More than 5,000 additives are used in the food industry; almost nothing is known about their synergistic effects. In 1815 the annual consumption of sugar per capita in the UK was about 12 lb; by 1955 it was 110 lb. US News says in 1967 Americans ate 114 pounds of sugar per capita a year, in 2003 it was about 142 pounds, much of it high-fructose corn syrup (plus aspartame etc). Since 1950, per capita soft-drink consumption in the US quadrupled from about 11 gallons per year to about 46 gallons in 2003. Meanwhile the amount of sheer processing that the food (?) most people eat undergoes has increased massively in the last three decades; denatured is hardly the word (since that assumes nature had something to do with it in the first place). Pesticide residues in the food aside, what's the toxic load (overload) on the environment these days? The US alone uses 30 million pounds of malathion a year, for a start. Dioxin, PAHs, carbofuran, endocrine disrupters ... The whole ghastly cocktail is in the air, the water, the soil, drenching everything around you. Are there 80,000 synthetic chemicals in use now or did it hit 100,000 yet? It's rather amazing that the biosphere manages to go on absorbing it all without collapsing completely. The signs of stress are everywhere though. In humans, increases in food allergies would be one, increases in the new multi-symptom systemic illnesses another, the behavioural changes in kids (and not only kids) another, and so on and on. Kids are dying of diseases formerly found only in old people. Time for the Precautionary Principle at long last? Or is it too late for that already? Who knows, but I don't think so, not quite yet. Maybe the big question is whether the corporate interests that benefit from all this stuff think (?) they've screwed enough profit out of the risk assessment approach yet (read Ford Pinto, eg). But I think the word enough is not in their lexicon. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Allergies (was: Organic Farming Yields)
I've come across only one reference that may relate. Forced vaccinations are taking place in Africa and as vaccinations are now being given to larger and larger percentages of the population there has been a dramatic increase in conditions .. things that were rare are now on the increase .. asthma, shingles, allergies (both food and environmental) .. along with substantial numbers of more immediate reactions including death .. most unreported by world medias .. Just my opinion .. but vaccinations would be the first line of attack against the immune system which would then be more vulnerable to the increased levels of pollutants that are now every where. Food is one factor .. air and water need to also be considered. I've recently become aware of a practice that is followed by many of the back water villages in places like Uruguay. Once a week the villagers bring all their trash to be burned in a large bonfire .. and this trash includes all those empty plastic bottles of Coke so many like to drink .. I have no idea how many plastic bottles that would equal times how many backwater village bonfires but I do know it can't be good for the air quality. Apparently this is a custom followed by small villages world wide. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART: Facilitator/Consultant for Alternative Healing Modalities and Practitioner utilizing various modalities which can include TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . THE ANIMAL CONNECTION HEALING MODALITIES http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ From: Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Allergies (was: Organic Farming Yields) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 06:34:18 -0400 I suppose most folks are aware that there is a radical increase in food allergies or sensitivities worldwide, that is growing all the time. Folks becoming intolerant to food products in ways never even heard of just a generation ago. I've heard conjecture that the base causality may possibly be traceable to the radical increases in worldwide personal hygiene and the strong trend to urbanization with folks being exposed less and less to regular ole dirt. While that kinda makes sense to me, I keep thinking that it may be at least as likely that the root cause may be found in the decrease in the quality of the food supply. Not in calories or even in proteins and vitamins, but the drastic increase in 'artificial' toxins (pesticides and herbicides) in the food supply around the world. Has anyone read or heard of any developing hypothesis along these lines? Just curious. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Corporate Interests (was: Allergies (was: Organic Farming Yields)
Hi Keith and List...I'd like to suggest that corporate interests, wherever we might find them, are not merely a small handful of people who are greedy, but also the many workers who work for them who are needy, along with all the investors who knowingly or unknowingly (through 401k type vehicles etc) invest in these interests, the governments that support them, the communities that rely on their presence and maybe someone could kick in a few more adjunct beneficiaries of these corporate interests. In the end, it really is everyone contributing in some way, shape or form to whatever problems we all share. Please note, I am not trying to defend these interests, but merely pointing out their broad scope. Not sure how so many folks can walk away from it all and try making lives for themselves apart from it. What would everyone do? How should everyone live? Again, I am not trying to defend anyone. I just don't believe the problem, whatever it is, can be summarily dismissed by blaming corporate interests. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Allergies (was: Organic Farming Yields) Hi Chip I suppose most folks are aware that there is a radical increase in food allergies or sensitivities worldwide, that is growing all the time. Folks becoming intolerant to food products in ways never even heard of just a generation ago. I've heard conjecture that the base causality may possibly be traceable to the radical increases in worldwide personal hygiene and the strong trend to urbanization with folks being exposed less and less to regular ole dirt. While that kinda makes sense to me, I keep thinking that it may be at least as likely that the root cause may be found in the decrease in the quality of the food supply. Not in calories or even in proteins and vitamins, but the drastic increase in 'artificial' toxins (pesticides and herbicides) in the food supply around the world. Has anyone read or heard of any developing hypothesis along these lines? Just curious. -- The average Englishman eats 10 pounds (4.5 kg) of food additives a year. More than 5,000 additives are used in the food industry; almost nothing is known about their synergistic effects. In 1815 the annual consumption of sugar per capita in the UK was about 12 lb; by 1955 it was 110 lb. US News says in 1967 Americans ate 114 pounds of sugar per capita a year, in 2003 it was about 142 pounds, much of it high-fructose corn syrup (plus aspartame etc). Since 1950, per capita soft-drink consumption in the US quadrupled from about 11 gallons per year to about 46 gallons in 2003. Meanwhile the amount of sheer processing that the food (?) most people eat undergoes has increased massively in the last three decades; denatured is hardly the word (since that assumes nature had something to do with it in the first place). Pesticide residues in the food aside, what's the toxic load (overload) on the environment these days? The US alone uses 30 million pounds of malathion a year, for a start. Dioxin, PAHs, carbofuran, endocrine disrupters ... The whole ghastly cocktail is in the air, the water, the soil, drenching everything around you. Are there 80,000 synthetic chemicals in use now or did it hit 100,000 yet? It's rather amazing that the biosphere manages to go on absorbing it all without collapsing completely. The signs of stress are everywhere though. In humans, increases in food allergies would be one, increases in the new multi-symptom systemic illnesses another, the behavioural changes in kids (and not only kids) another, and so on and on. Kids are dying of diseases formerly found only in old people. Time for the Precautionary Principle at long last? Or is it too late for that already? Who knows, but I don't think so, not quite yet. Maybe the big question is whether the corporate interests that benefit from all this stuff think (?) they've screwed enough profit out of the risk assessment approach yet (read Ford Pinto, eg). But I think the word enough is not in their lexicon. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] Corporate Interests
Today, in my travels, I stopped in Clinton to have a piece of jewelry repaired at a local store called Made To Order. This store is open 7 days a week and employs perhaps 7 to 10 people full time with several more employed part time. This store belongs to the family of Dan Brown, well known wildlife photographer (up in years now) who has established the Lokata Wolf Preserve in Columbia, NJ (just a few miles away) .. and that preserve employs several more full time people year round. I sometimes eat lunch with Dan and his daughter and have heard some of the complaints about hiring quality people .. these people are well paid and live locally who pay taxes and do their shopping in their community .. and live close enough so they are not driving any great distances. When I finished in that store, I walked across the street to the Clinton Book Store to pre-paid a book soon to be released. This store is also an independent and locally owned store .. and quite successful. I prefer the Clinton Book Store because all the employees .. something like 7 to 10 full and part time .. are readers and have knowledge of the product(s) they are selling. While I was in the store I picked up 2007 August Book Sense Picks .. this is a little publication that lists the books independent booksellers across the USA are recommending ... in my opinion, the Book Sense Picks is far superior to the published best seller lists for quality reading. The Book Sense also had a little blurb that I'll include here .. but only in part. Taking into consideration things like sales taxes supporting local schools, social services, and public agencies. .. For every $100 spent by a consumer, a local business would give back $68 while a chain will only give back $43 .. I would guess there would be some differences with individual communities but I think the figures are impressive. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART: Facilitator/Consultant for Alternative Healing Modalities and Practitioner utilizing various modalities which can include TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . THE ANIMAL CONNECTION HEALING MODALITIES http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Corporate Interests (was: Allergies (was: OrganicFarming Yields) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:17:14 -0500 Hi Keith and List...I'd like to suggest that corporate interests, wherever we might find them, are not merely a small handful of people who are greedy, but also the many workers who work for them who are needy, along with all the investors who knowingly or unknowingly (through 401k type vehicles etc) invest in these interests, the governments that support them, the communities that rely on their presence and maybe someone could kick in a few more adjunct beneficiaries of these corporate interests. In the end, it really is everyone contributing in some way, shape or form to whatever problems we all share. Please note, I am not trying to defend these interests, but merely pointing out their broad scope. Not sure how so many folks can walk away from it all and try making lives for themselves apart from it. What would everyone do? How should everyone live? Again, I am not trying to defend anyone. I just don't believe the problem, whatever it is, can be summarily dismissed by blaming corporate interests. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Allergies (was: Organic Farming Yields) Hi Chip I suppose most folks are aware that there is a radical increase in food allergies or sensitivities worldwide, that is growing all the time. Folks becoming intolerant to food products in ways never even heard of just a generation ago. I've heard conjecture that the base causality may possibly be traceable to the radical increases in worldwide personal hygiene and the strong trend to urbanization with folks being exposed less and less to regular ole dirt. While that kinda makes sense to me, I keep thinking that it may be at least as likely that the root cause may be found in the decrease in the quality of the food supply. Not in calories or even in proteins and vitamins, but the drastic increase in 'artificial' toxins (pesticides and herbicides) in the food supply around the world. Has anyone read or heard of any developing hypothesis along these lines? Just curious. -- The average Englishman eats 10 pounds (4.5 kg) of food additives a year. More than 5,000 additives are used in the food industry; almost nothing is known about their
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel!
i didnt mean in a car. i wanted to use it to weld with. its a waste of time trying to put hydrogen in a car. From: doug swanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel! Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 06:25:59 -0400 water is an ash. the end result of oxidizing hydrogen. it's a reversible reaction that takes energy to accomplish. then, you have oxygen and hydrogen in the correct quantities to oxidize the hydrogen again, releasing energy... it takes energy to accomplish this reversible reaction. imagine if you were to separate carbon and oxygen from carbon dioxide. it too could be a reversible reaction... the problem with this scheme is that it takes more energy to rip apart a molecule than what we get back when we reassemble the molecule. i can see how electricity might become the next diminishing resource, if all the hummers and suvs were rigged to run on electrolyzed water. where is all this electricity going to come from? brown outs and blackouts have indicated that there are times when we're using this energy source to its limits. if everyone was to use additional electricity to electrolyze water to keep up their wasteful driving habits, electric prices would rise accordingly, and the 'solution' would be to make more plants that make electricity. 'clean coal' and nuclear would be touted as the solution, since solar to electric conversion is still too expensive. this gentleman's claim that his car runs on water is incorrect, since the report indicates that it's a water/gasoline hybrid. it takes gasoline to run, using some of the alternator's energy to electrolyze water, (the extra load on the alternator to do this is paid for in gasoline) and while it probably does make the vehicle run more efficiently in terms of better combustion, it still takes gasoline to keep the process going. an alternative, the entirely water burning car, would need to have batteries that need charging to convert the water as it is used, or the water would have to be broken down and stored between trips. there's a lot of work being done in electrolyzing water more efficiently, but to make a self contained system that extracts a surplus of energy is: over unity perpetual motion etc. I'm not going to invest in something like that until I see it running without a stop at the battery charger or gas station... ever. doug swanson Jason Mier wrote: looks like a neat little toy, maybe i need to try some when i next come across a cheap welder? From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel! Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:43:02 -0700 http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/RhodesGas/index.html I think its just a Browns Gas Torch. I have no sound on this PC so I could not tell what was being said. When get home I will watch it. We have all known that you can electrolyze water. On 7/16/07, MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok List...what's up with this? Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: John DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Arvilla [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Pat DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mike DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:30 PM Subject: water and electricity as fuel! boy, this could get us all going in the right direction: http://livedigital.com/content/287275/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ http://liveearth.msn.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Contentment comes not from having more, but from wanting less. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * All
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel!
From all I have read, it makes a great welding setup. I'd like to see it live and in person, some of the claims are so remarkable... doug Jason Mier wrote: i didnt mean in a car. i wanted to use it to weld with. its a waste of time trying to put hydrogen in a car. From: doug swanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel! Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 06:25:59 -0400 water is an ash. the end result of oxidizing hydrogen. it's a reversible reaction that takes energy to accomplish. then, you have oxygen and hydrogen in the correct quantities to oxidize the hydrogen again, releasing energy... it takes energy to accomplish this reversible reaction. imagine if you were to separate carbon and oxygen from carbon dioxide. it too could be a reversible reaction... the problem with this scheme is that it takes more energy to rip apart a molecule than what we get back when we reassemble the molecule. i can see how electricity might become the next diminishing resource, if all the hummers and suvs were rigged to run on electrolyzed water. where is all this electricity going to come from? brown outs and blackouts have indicated that there are times when we're using this energy source to its limits. if everyone was to use additional electricity to electrolyze water to keep up their wasteful driving habits, electric prices would rise accordingly, and the 'solution' would be to make more plants that make electricity. 'clean coal' and nuclear would be touted as the solution, since solar to electric conversion is still too expensive. this gentleman's claim that his car runs on water is incorrect, since the report indicates that it's a water/gasoline hybrid. it takes gasoline to run, using some of the alternator's energy to electrolyze water, (the extra load on the alternator to do this is paid for in gasoline) and while it probably does make the vehicle run more efficiently in terms of better combustion, it still takes gasoline to keep the process going. an alternative, the entirely water burning car, would need to have batteries that need charging to convert the water as it is used, or the water would have to be broken down and stored between trips. there's a lot of work being done in electrolyzing water more efficiently, but to make a self contained system that extracts a surplus of energy is: over unity perpetual motion etc. I'm not going to invest in something like that until I see it running without a stop at the battery charger or gas station... ever. doug swanson Jason Mier wrote: looks like a neat little toy, maybe i need to try some when i next come across a cheap welder? From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel! Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:43:02 -0700 http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/RhodesGas/index.html I think its just a Browns Gas Torch. I have no sound on this PC so I could not tell what was being said. When get home I will watch it. We have all known that you can electrolyze water. On 7/16/07, MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok List...what's up with this? Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: John DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Arvilla [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Pat DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mike DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:30 PM Subject: water and electricity as fuel! boy, this could get us all going in the right direction: http://livedigital.com/content/287275/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ http://liveearth.msn.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
