Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Rumsfeld flees France fearingarrest....................................
This from a nation who collaborated with Germany during the 2nd world war, rounded up their own French resistance fighters for execution, and then had the brass neck to charge the Jews the railway fare whilst they were shipped to the death camps in cattle trucks. And not only allowed the people responsible to remain in France but remain in government office for the rest of their lives. Not forgetting building the underground control bunkers in Iraq and selling them an airforce If charity begins at home where does justice live these days? Mark -- From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:00 PM To: biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: Rumsfeld flees France fearingarrest http://wor.ldne.ws/node/8596 Rumsfeld flees France fearing arrest Sat. 10/27/2007 - 08:45 Former US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld fled France today fearing arrest over charges of ordering and authorizing torture of detainees at both the American-run Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and the US military's detainment facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, unconfirmed reports coming from Paris suggest. US embassy officials whisked Rumsfeld away yesterday from a breakfast meeting in Paris organized by the Foreign Policy magazine after human rights groups filed a criminal complaint against the man who spearheaded President George W. Bush's war on terror for six years. Under international law, authorities in France are obliged to open an investigation when a complaint is made while the alleged torturer is on French soil. According to activists in France, who greeted Rumsfeld shouting murderer and war criminal at the breakfast meeting venue, US embassy officials remained tight-lipped about the former defense secretary's whereabouts citing security reasons. Anti-torture protesters in France believe that the defense secretary fled over the open border to Germany, where a war crimes case against Rumsfeld was dismissed by a federal court. But activist point out that under the Schengen agreement that ended border checkpoints across a large part of the European Union, French law enforcement agents are allowed to cross the border into Germany in pursuit of a fleeing fugitive. Rumsfeld must be feeling how Saddam Hussein felt when US forces were hunting him down, activist Tanguy Richard said. He may never end up being hanged like his old friend, but he must learn that in the civilized world, war crime doesn't pay. International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) along with the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR), the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR), and the French League for Human Rights (LDH) filed the complaint on Thursday after learning that Rumsfeld was scheduled to visit Paris. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20071101/dff2ef4b/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Rumsfeld flees France fearingarrest
This from a nation who collaborated with Germany during the 2nd world war, rounded up their own French resistance fighters for execution, and then had the brass neck to charge the Jews the railway fare whilst they were shipped to the death camps in cattle trucks. Um, no, it's not from the nation you describe, nor any nation, it's from a bunch of human rights groups. Do you only see things in national terms? And how can you say France collaborated with Germany? They were conquered and occupied, the Vichy government was a Nazi puppet regime - you know, like the Baghdad government is a US puppet regime, and the Kabul government is a US puppet regime. Anyway the US recognised the Vichy regime as the official government of France, at the time all the terrible things you mention were happening, right up to August 1945. Are you implying the French have no right to take action against torturers on the grounds that the WW2 occupation regime did evil things so they should just stand by today and let more evil things happen? And not only allowed the people responsible to remain in France but remain in government office for the rest of their lives. You mean the US didn't buy them off like they did with so many German and Japanese war criminals? Wonder why not. The Butcher of Lyon Klaus Barbie got a job with the U.S. Army Counter Intelligence Corps after the war, for instance. Not forgetting building the underground control bunkers in Iraq and selling them an airforce Maybe they met Mr Rumsfeld in Baghdad at the time, when he shook hands so famously with Saddam Hussein, so they thought it was okay. http://www.lipmagazine.org/articles/featawehali_194.shtml US weapons sales to terrorist countries The U.S. has sold weapons or training to almost 90% of the countries it has identified as harboring terrorists. http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/arms-exports.cfm A Risky Business - U.S. Arms Exports to Countries Where Terror Thrives Are you perhaps one of the 30%+ of Americans who still believe Saddam did 9/11? If charity begins at home where does justice live these days? Not sure what that means, not much I suspect. Anyway it's entirely unclear where you think justice would lie in this case, perhaps you'll explain. This is one of the many places justice lives: http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2006/11/donald-rumsfeld-war-crimes-case.php (The Washington government is a US puppet regime, IMHO.) Best Keith Mark -- From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:00 PM To: biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: Rumsfeld flees France fearingarrest http://wor.ldne.ws/node/8596 Rumsfeld flees France fearing arrest Sat. 10/27/2007 - 08:45 Former US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld fled France today fearing arrest over charges of ordering and authorizing torture of detainees at both the American-run Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and the US military's detainment facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, unconfirmed reports coming from Paris suggest. US embassy officials whisked Rumsfeld away yesterday from a breakfast meeting in Paris organized by the Foreign Policy magazine after human rights groups filed a criminal complaint against the man who spearheaded President George W. Bush's war on terror for six years. Under international law, authorities in France are obliged to open an investigation when a complaint is made while the alleged torturer is on French soil. According to activists in France, who greeted Rumsfeld shouting murderer and war criminal at the breakfast meeting venue, US embassy officials remained tight-lipped about the former defense secretary's whereabouts citing security reasons. Anti-torture protesters in France believe that the defense secretary fled over the open border to Germany, where a war crimes case against Rumsfeld was dismissed by a federal court. But activist point out that under the Schengen agreement that ended border checkpoints across a large part of the European Union, French law enforcement agents are allowed to cross the border into Germany in pursuit of a fleeing fugitive. Rumsfeld must be feeling how Saddam Hussein felt when US forces were hunting him down, activist Tanguy Richard said. He may never end up being hanged like his old friend, but he must learn that in the civilized world, war crime doesn't pay. International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) along with the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR), the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR), and the French League for Human Rights (LDH) filed the complaint on Thursday after learning that Rumsfeld was scheduled to visit Paris. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Rumsfeld flees France fearingarrest....................................
Mark Cookson a écrit : This from a nation who collaborated with Germany during the 2nd world war, rounded up their own French resistance fighters for execution, and then had the brass neck to charge the Jews the railway fare whilst they were shipped to the death camps in cattle trucks. And not only allowed the people responsible to remain in France but remain in government office for the rest of their lives. Not forgetting building the underground control bunkers in Iraq and selling them an airforce If charity begins at home where does justice live these days? Mark You've forgotten provided the nuclear plant Osirak ... and the way for Israel to destroy it. Nothing simple, and so well splitted between Good and Bad as neocons like to say. There is no perfect human nation. frantz (french) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Rumsfeld flees France fearingarrest....................................
I don't believe eternity is long enough to discuss tit for tat. Perhaps if weren't for some American businessmen empowering Hitler, history may have been different. Of course we ignore the US's effective genocide. Forgetting about those German Nazi collaborators that the US shielded and brought into the USA? Of course both Osama and Saddam where allies of the US. As for the story I find it odd that credit is given for an author or the agency that released it. Along with the date was nearly a week ago. Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. Mark Cookson wrote: This from a nation who collaborated with Germany during the 2nd world war, rounded up their own French resistance fighters for execution, and then had the brass neck to charge the Jews the railway fare whilst they were shipped to the death camps in cattle trucks. And not only allowed the people responsible to remain in France but remain in government office for the rest of their lives. Not forgetting building the underground control bunkers in Iraq and selling them an airforce If charity begins at home where does justice live these days? Mark ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Rumsfeld flees France fearingarrest
Dear fantz and keith Thank you for your responses. I was wanting to generate a debate were I would be able to learn points of view with understanding and you have come up trumps! Best regards Mark -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 6:01 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Rumsfeld flees France fearingarrest This from a nation who collaborated with Germany during the 2nd world war, rounded up their own French resistance fighters for execution, and then had the brass neck to charge the Jews the railway fare whilst they were shipped to the death camps in cattle trucks. Um, no, it's not from the nation you describe, nor any nation, it's from a bunch of human rights groups. Do you only see things in national terms? And how can you say France collaborated with Germany? They were conquered and occupied, the Vichy government was a Nazi puppet regime - you know, like the Baghdad government is a US puppet regime, and the Kabul government is a US puppet regime. Anyway the US recognised the Vichy regime as the official government of France, at the time all the terrible things you mention were happening, right up to August 1945. Are you implying the French have no right to take action against torturers on the grounds that the WW2 occupation regime did evil things so they should just stand by today and let more evil things happen? And not only allowed the people responsible to remain in France but remain in government office for the rest of their lives. You mean the US didn't buy them off like they did with so many German and Japanese war criminals? Wonder why not. The Butcher of Lyon Klaus Barbie got a job with the U.S. Army Counter Intelligence Corps after the war, for instance. Not forgetting building the underground control bunkers in Iraq and selling them an airforce Maybe they met Mr Rumsfeld in Baghdad at the time, when he shook hands so famously with Saddam Hussein, so they thought it was okay. http://www.lipmagazine.org/articles/featawehali_194.shtml US weapons sales to terrorist countries The U.S. has sold weapons or training to almost 90% of the countries it has identified as harboring terrorists. http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/arms-exports.cfm A Risky Business - U.S. Arms Exports to Countries Where Terror Thrives Are you perhaps one of the 30%+ of Americans who still believe Saddam did 9/11? If charity begins at home where does justice live these days? Not sure what that means, not much I suspect. Anyway it's entirely unclear where you think justice would lie in this case, perhaps you'll explain. This is one of the many places justice lives: http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2006/11/donald-rumsfeld-war-crimes-case.php (The Washington government is a US puppet regime, IMHO.) Best Keith Mark -- From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:00 PM To: biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: Rumsfeld flees France fearingarrest http://wor.ldne.ws/node/8596 Rumsfeld flees France fearing arrest Sat. 10/27/2007 - 08:45 Former US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld fled France today fearing arrest over charges of ordering and authorizing torture of detainees at both the American-run Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and the US military's detainment facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, unconfirmed reports coming from Paris suggest. US embassy officials whisked Rumsfeld away yesterday from a breakfast meeting in Paris organized by the Foreign Policy magazine after human rights groups filed a criminal complaint against the man who spearheaded President George W. Bush's war on terror for six years. Under international law, authorities in France are obliged to open an investigation when a complaint is made while the alleged torturer is on French soil. According to activists in France, who greeted Rumsfeld shouting murderer and war criminal at the breakfast meeting venue, US embassy officials remained tight-lipped about the former defense secretary's whereabouts citing security reasons. Anti-torture protesters in France believe that the defense secretary fled over the open border to Germany, where a war crimes case against Rumsfeld was dismissed by a federal court. But activist point out that under the Schengen agreement that ended border checkpoints across a large part of the European Union, French law enforcement agents are allowed to cross the border into Germany in pursuit of a fleeing fugitive. Rumsfeld must be feeling how Saddam Hussein felt when US forces were hunting him down, activist Tanguy Richard said. He may never end up being hanged like his old friend, but he must learn that in the civilized world, war crime doesn't pay. International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH)
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