Re: [Biofuel] Who Owns Nature?
Judging by the writings of Thomas Paine I ran across recently, all of mankind owns our planet(nature?) in common. Agrarian Justice http://xroads.virginia.edu/~Hyper2/CDFinal/Paine/agrarian.html The more history I discover, the more I wonder how the USA got from then to now. And thanks for sending the link to the etc group report. Ralf Nader or some one else with similar experience with corporate world, should pull an Al Gore, taking this information to the people. Doug, N0LKK ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Who Owns Nature?
Hi Doug Judging by the writings of Thomas Paine I ran across recently, all of mankind owns our planet(nature?) in common. Agrarian Justice http://xroads.virginia.edu/~Hyper2/CDFinal/Paine/agrarian.html Thankyou! The more history I discover, the more I wonder how the USA got from then to now. And thanks for sending the link to the etc group report. Ralf Nader or some one else with similar experience with corporate world, should pull an Al Gore, taking this information to the people. Doug, N0LKK All of mankind owns the planet though... Only mankind? Doesn't nature own itself? Ecuador's new constitution includes an article that grants nature the right to exist, persist, maintain and regenerate its vital cycles, structure, functions and its processes in evolution and will grant legal standing to any person to defend those rights in court. http://www.metafilter.com/75251/Ecuador-has-a-new-constitution Ecuador has a new constitution September 29, 2008 Voters in Ecuador appear to have approved a new constitution yesterday, guaranteeing rights to clean water, universal healthcare, pensions, and free state-run education through the university level. It also may allow President Rafael Correa to remain in power until 2017. Particularly of note is a world first bill of rights for nature which grants inalienable rights to nature. http://www.ecoearth.info/shared/reader/welcome.aspx?linkid=107108 http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/29/ecuador-constitution-grants-nature-rights/ The specific provisions state: (source) Chapter: Rights for Nature Art. 1. Nature or Pachamama, where life is reproduced and exists, has the right to exist, persist, maintain and regenerate its vital cycles, structure, functions and its processes in evolution. Every person, people, community or nationality, will be able to demand the recognitions of rights for nature before the public organisms. The application and interpretation of these rights will follow the related principles established in the Constitution. Art. 2. Nature has the right to an integral restoration. This integral restoration is independent of the obligation on natural and juridical persons or the State to indemnify the people and the collectives that depend on the natural systems. In the cases of severe or permanent environmental impact, including the ones caused by the exploitation on non renewable natural resources, the State will establish the most efficient mechanisms for the restoration, and will adopt the adequate measures to eliminate or mitigate the harmful environmental consequences. Art. 3. The State will motivate natural and juridical persons as well as collectives to protect nature; it will promote respect towards all the elements that form an ecosystem. Art. 4. The State will apply precaution and restriction measures in all the activities that can lead to the extinction of species, the destruction of the ecosystems or the permanent alteration of the natural cycles. The introduction of organisms and organic and inorganic material that can alter in a definitive way the national genetic patrimony is prohibited. Art. 5. The persons, people, communities and nationalities will have the right to benefit from the environment and form natural wealth that will allow wellbeing. The environmental services are cannot be appropriated; its production, provision, use and exploitation, will be regulated by the State. I think that's great! Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Who Owns Nature?
The more history I discover, the more I wonder how the USA got from then to now. And thanks for sending the link to the etc group report. Ralf Nader or some one else with similar experience with corporate world, should pull an Al Gore, taking this information to the people. Doug, N0LKK All of mankind owns the planet though The corporate world /GMO's are even threatening nature in our own guts: See my blog on bacterial biodiversity and the link to the body's immune system by the famous Pasteur institute. http://www.rebelfarmer.org/2/post/2008/09/french-consumers-want-their-normandian-camembert-being-made-from-raw-milk-1-0-for-slow-food.html Apparently is good to be around wild fermentation processes, good news for digesters! Menno ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biogas - was alternative to vaccines
Menno, Sorry to be delayed... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My original question was about anaerobic conditions in the Jean Pain pile. I have seen on the video how he trambles this pile layer by layer, by completely soaked fine wood chips, so I was wondering if the container inside was a digester or collector of methane. Without any question, it is a digester. There is no credible means of beaming methane molecules from inside a compost pile to the inside of a steel drum. ...any more source of methane which can be avoided would not get permission in Europe. No well-constructed and properly maintained digester will leak appreciable amounts of biogas/methane. To put it another way, if there is any detectable methane near the digester, then something is wrong or broken, and should be fixed. My point, therefore, with regard to the methane released by cows, termites-- and indeed humans-- is that any of these sources would ...swamp any amounts produced by a fleet of biogas digesters. In any case, in any reasonable analysis of the situation, where the digester is functioning properly and to that degree replacing reliance on fossil fuel, it would be carbon negative, even given the greater impact of any given methane molecule as compared with a carbon dioxide molecule. Again, therefore, from any point of view one cares to analyze the situation, either by comparison to a dozen or more other sources or in relation strictly to itself, biogas generation should properly be welcomed by any authority interested in ameliorating greenhouse gas emissions. Small is... often the right size. I was not promoting large scale application at all, therefor I was interested in Jean Pain's method. My point was perhaps not clear. In order to have an appreciable effect on soil quality in EE, which you stated as your goal, the number of Jean Pain-type compost piles would have to be substantial, one may even say extravagant. There would be no way to produce a sufficient number of piles through any single agency except through a process that would have to be industrial-scale. One would have to purchase a fleet of trucks and chippers, supply an army with chain saws, etc., etc. Given the wasteful expenditure of fossil fuels which Jean Pain's method entails-- even in the video there is a small fleet of vehicles, running hither and yon-- and the necessity to shred a large pile of wood and branches to make it into a large pile of compost, this seems among the poorest choices which might be made to accomplish the goals, within the strictures you outline. Any agency concerned with global warming which would reject a biogas generator for the stray methane it produced, but which would blithely accept the huge carbon footprint of a Jean Pain compost pile, should be replaced with a machine that would randomly spit out Yes and No tickets (in response to the detection of cosmic rays, for example) for each incoming request. (The random answers would almost certainly be better, on average, than such an agency.) Far, far, and even far better, as I said, to educate the farmers about why it is important to take care of the soil. Concentrate on that. Forget Jean Pain: translate the best free book on the web regarding cover crops (navigate to http://www.sare.org/publications/all_pubs.htm and look top right) into languages spoken by the farmers in the region of your concern, and you will have an outsized impact on both the sequestration of carbon and the improvement of soil. I'm quite serious about this: If you really want to gain leverage on the problems you point toward, the lowly and difficult work of translation (and education more generally) is the place to gain that leverage. Jean Pain did mention that he did an energy analysis on the use of energy for chipping, and he said that he could use the gas for it, and still have a surplus. I have a bridge I can sell you, as well. (This is a phrase in colloquial American which roughly translates to If you believe that, then you'll believe anything.) No offense intended, honestly, but Jean Pain would have to have been able to suspend the laws of physics regionally in France before he could ever have seen a surplus. It just ain't so. d. -- div style=font:Georgia;David William House div style=padding-left:3em;font-size:80%;503-678-5162 (home)br503-206-1001 (cell)brnbsp;/div div style=padding-left:2em;Make no search for water. nbsp; nbsp; nbsp; But find thirst,br And water from the very ground will burst. div style=padding-left:2em;font-size:80%;(Rumi, a Persian mystic poet, quoted in emDelight of Hearts/em, p. 77)/div/div -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20081120/6914a8cc/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Biofuel] Biogas - was alternative to vaccines
Bernard, Bernard wrote: Menno wrote: The cow farting is definitely a point of concern for many people... When I eat the right foods, I don't have gas... Regardless whether you were joking or not, the point is really very sensible. That is, what is true for us-- we produce more or less biogas depending on dietary and other factors-- is also true for cattle and other ruminants, based on research that has been done: *'Burpless' Grass Cuts Methane Gas From Cattle, May Help Reduce Global Warming* http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080506120859.htm *Methane Emissions of Beef Cattle on Forages * http://jeq.scijournals.org/cgi/reprint/32/1/269.pdf *Reducing Methane Means Money To Cattle Producers * http://www.jpcs.on.ca/biodiversity/ghg/info_sheets/RotationalTipsHandout.pdf *Cattle selected for lower residual feed intake have reduced daily methane production * http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/85/6/1479 ...etc. d. -- David William House The Complete Biogas Handbook |www.completebiogas.com| Make no search for water. But find thirst, And water from the very ground will burst. (Rumi, a Persian mystic poet, quoted in /Delight of Hearts/, p. 77) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20081120/85855255/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Who Owns Nature?
Keith, Keith Addison wrote: All of mankind owns the planet though... Only mankind? Doesn't nature own itself? If ownership (rather than, say, stewardship) is to be the operative word, perhaps better to say that the planet is owned by our grandchildren's grandchildren, and always will be. We need find a broader cultural expression of the attitudes and actions of the fictional Elzéard Bouffier (The Man Who Planted Trees, or-- as it was originally-- The Man Who Planted Hope and Grew Happiness). Text: http://www.deeshaa.org/the-man-who-planted-trees/ (or http://www.vidyaonline.net/arvindgupta/plantedtrees.pdf) Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSlN_4ZGE38 (or http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2926032018049266053ei=5xomSfzbFp3eqAPEhLD-AQq=the+man+who+planted+trees) Ecuador's new constitution... How very cool. Thanks for this. d. -- David William House The Complete Biogas Handbook |www.completebiogas.com| Make no search for water. But find thirst, And water from the very ground will burst. (Rumi, a Persian mystic poet, quoted in /Delight of Hearts/, p. 77) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20081120/1877ae34/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Who Owns Nature?
Hello David Keith, Keith Addison wrote: All of mankind owns the planet though... Only mankind? Doesn't nature own itself? If ownership (rather than, say, stewardship) is to be the operative word, perhaps better to say that the planet is owned by our grandchildren's grandchildren, and always will be. So the Kenyans say, or something similar. The ETC Group report deals with ownership, in the narrowest (worst) sense, ie remorseless exploitation. Stewardship is also not without its problems though. Stewardship on behalf of whom? Us? If of our grandchildren's grandchildren it adds some necessary restraints and obligations which would extend beyond humanity but how far would it embrace the biosphere as a whole? Why should it be only we humans' grandchildren's grandchildren and not everyone else's grandchildren's grandchildren too? Many traditional beliefs and codes go further than that. We've discussed this here quite a lot. A fairly recent conclusion: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg72182.html I think you might agree. We need find a broader cultural expression of the attitudes and actions of the fictional Elzéard Bouffier (The Man Who Planted Trees, or-- as it was originally-- The Man Who Planted Hope and Grew Happiness). Text: http://www.deeshaa.org/the-man-who-planted-trees/ (or http://www.vidyaonline.net/arvindgupta/plantedtrees.pdf) Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSlN_4ZGE38 (or http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2926032018049266053ei=5xomSfzbFp3eqAPEhLD-AQq=the+man+who+planted+trees) What I first thought when I read that story in the early 80s was that the trees wouldn't have grown, not planted that way and in those conditions. But yes indeed, the spirit of it, though there's a very large number of good folks doing similar things now, all over the world, more and more all the time. Ecuador's new constitution... How very cool. Yes! The way forward. Thanks for this. You're most welcome. All best Keith d. -- David William House The Complete Biogas Handbook |www.completebiogas.com| Make no search for water. But find thirst, And water from the very ground will burst. (Rumi, a Persian mystic poet, quoted in /Delight of Hearts/, p. 77) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
