Re: [Biofuel] A metalworking question
Keith It looks to me, unless I've misunderstood the failed attempt, that you want a worked sheetmetal piece rather than a casting or moulding. And then the trouble would be to get the domed shape into it: I take it the shape is necessary for the proper functioning of the rose. The first thing that springs to mind is to scour vehicle breaker's yards for bits of body panels that have a suitable dome. As you only need a small piece an otherwise irreparable panel might do. Otherwise one could start with flat sheetmetal and work in the dome using traditional bodywork techniques. The problem is that one would be working in ungalvanized metal, though one could cold galv it afterwards. To form the dome, heat a metal disc until a light yellow oxide bloom appears. Then hammer along the edge of the disc to compact the metal. You'll probably have to heat, hammer, and let cool a few times to achieve the desired domed shape. I haven't done this myself but have read somewhat on the subject. The holes would be made afterwards with an awl and hammer on a suitable wood block. Assembling the dome onto the collar and cone involves the same sort of techniques as the can itself, folded seams and solder. That seems to me an appropriately crafts-based way to do it. I hope this helps. -Dawie --- On Tue, 2/11/10, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] A metalworking question To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Tuesday, 2 November, 2010, 20:30 Hello all If you don't mind my asking, I could use a little help with some info at the Journey to Forever website. It's about Chinese watering cans, at this page: Appropriate technology Chinese watering cans http://journeytoforever.org/at_can.html High-power rose -- tricky to make, it says. We haven't figured out how to make new roses yet, but we're working on it. We're trying twin male/female moulds using our friend Graeme Morris's recipe for a rock-hard putty made of glass-fibre resin and lime -- that way we should be able to get the holes right. See Watering can plans for details. http://journeytoforever.org/at_canplan.html It didn't work. I've made eight of these cans over the years, and when I leave I abandon the cans themselves and take the roses with me. The cans seem to be ubiquitous, they're what veg oil, methanol and so on come in. This pair is the current version: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/wcans.jpg The cans in action: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/k-wc.jpg They're very efficient - using both cans at once, two passes gives you 1 a litre per sq yd/sq metre coverage. snip -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20101103/7e08e9de/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Is the Tesla generator blueprint for real?
I can see that the advertisement has hype. Well then? (Not has, is.) Did you manage to find the book at Amazon, plus glowing reviews? Or perhaps a 2nd-hand copy at Alibris? Did you do a Google search for some genuine user-testimonies that didn't originate up this guy's sleeve? Maybe someone who fries his morning egg on Tesla-power? I was asking I know what you were asking. if anybody has tried the plan. I hope the rest of the list members won't be embarrassed to answer if they have indeed tried the blueprint offered, or tried something like it. I doubt they'd be embarrassed. I don't like to see honest people paying good money to crooks for nothing, but once it's done and all is revealed, you'd warn other people not to be such mugs as you were, wouldn't you? Anyway, why don't you go right ahead and buy the thing? Then you'll be able to tell us all what we already know from looking at the ad. By the way, would you perhaps be interested in a magical formula that'll turn your WVO into perfect biodiesel without any effort or expense? All it takes is one teaspoonful, it's made of mothballs and nail-polish, and it's also a secret. Cheap at half the price. Keith I guess my broader question is, do any of the eclectic and resourceful people on this list have any experience with any of the Tesla electricity inventions? http://www.teslasecret.com/?hop=dec212012 Kathy ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The waterless toilet
The latest from South Africa where burgeoning squatter camps around the large cities have outgrown the municipal water supply;. www.enviro-loo.com You're quite right Bob, that's much more modern. Those Japanese toilets don't lead the way, they're a step backwards, primitive. The real modern toilet is a sawdust toilet, though it needs composting, and not everyone is able to do that. The Enviro Loo seems to separate humanure and urine at the start. It ends up as an inoffensive dry stabilised material - not something that might be of use to gardeners? There are NGOs there that promote community gardens in the camps. The camps are crowded, but you can get a lot of good food out of 4 sq yds with 3x3 Square Foot beds, or containers (not used tyres). All best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A metalworking question
Hi Fritz Thankyou, I'd love to have a look at that. When you're ready, can you send me the scan direct, as an email attachment? The list server won't accept attachments, but once I have it I'll upload it at the JtF site and post a link here so anyone can see it. Thanks again - regards Keith Hello Keith, i found in my library an old book for thinsmiths and in it is a plan for the pattern of the cuts. Its not chinese but old bavarian and with some imagination you may be able to make a chinese out of it. give me some time tonigth and i will scan the thing and post it to you.The book is from 1922... can i post this on the list or some other adress? Fritz On 10-11-02 02:30 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Hello all If you don't mind my asking, I could use a little help with some info at the Journey to Forever website. It's about Chinese watering cans, at this page: Appropriate technology Chinese watering cans http://journeytoforever.org/at_can.html High-power rose -- tricky to make, it says. We haven't figured out how to make new roses yet, but we're working on it. We're trying twin male/female moulds using our friend Graeme Morris's recipe for a rock-hard putty made of glass-fibre resin and lime -- that way we should be able to get the holes right. See Watering can plans for details. http://journeytoforever.org/at_canplan.html It didn't work. I've made eight of these cans over the years, and when I leave I abandon the cans themselves and take the roses with me. The cans seem to be ubiquitous, they're what veg oil, methanol and so on come in. This pair is the current version: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/wcans.jpg The cans in action: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/k-wc.jpg They're very efficient - using both cans at once, two passes gives you 1 a litre per sq yd/sq metre coverage. I seldom use them for actual watering or irrigation though, no need. That time it was diluted compost tea, being applied to a pasture I'd just disked in before the next crop in the succession - grains, field beans, roots or whatever (or sugar-cane, maize, soy, rapeseed/canola if you like), followed by a dressing of compost and then back to pasture. (See Ley farming http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#ley.) Also seaweed emulsion, or diluted urine sometimes, though the urine usually goes in the compost. Always to feed the topsoil, not to fertilise the plants. These cans haven't been made since the 1970s, or not in Hong Kong anyway, nor in China, as far as I know. They used to be made in local metalworking shops with fairly basic, simple equipment. But how did they make the roses? Any ideas? Better pictures: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/wcrose.jpg FYI, this is a useful small book on fertilising with urine: Liquid Gold: The Lore and Logic of Using Urine to Grow Plants, by Carol Steinfeld http://snipurl.com/sw44a Also: Guidelines on the Use of Urine and Faeces in Crop Production, EcoSanRes Programme, Stockholm Environment Institute, 2004, 43-page pdf, 2.4 Mb http://www.ecosanres.org/pdf_files/ESR_Publications_2004/ESR2web.pdf Urine Diversion: One Step Towards Sustainable Sanitation, EcoSanRes Programme, Stockholm Environment Institute, 2006, 76-page pdf, 2.9 Mb http://www.ecosanres.org/pdf_files/Urine_Diversion_2006-1.pdf TVM - all best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A metalworking question
Hi Dawie Keith It looks to me, unless I've misunderstood the failed attempt, that you want a worked sheetmetal piece rather than a casting or moulding. That's right. It's just thin metal, like a tin can. I think anything much heavier might upset the balance, which is just right - as you walk the cans more or less empty themselves, you don't have to tip them much, if at all. And then the trouble would be to get the domed shape into it: I take it the shape is necessary for the proper functioning of the rose. Yes, it widens the spread, and some of the water goes up, which extends the reach. The first thing that springs to mind is to scour vehicle breaker's yards for bits of body panels that have a suitable dome. As you only need a small piece an otherwise irreparable panel might do. A circular domed part of a car? I can't think of one, but I'll certainly have a look. Otherwise one could start with flat sheetmetal and work in the dome using traditional bodywork techniques. That's probably my problem, I don't know much about bodywork techniques. The problem is that one would be working in ungalvanized metal, though one could cold galv it afterwards. Or use some linseed oil, or this: Anti-rust Paint from Fish-Scraps - A short guide to the technique by M. L. Allen, Prince of Songkla University, Thailand http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/FishPaintJTF.pdf To form the dome, heat a metal disc until a light yellow oxide bloom appears. Then hammer along the edge of the disc to compact the metal. You'll probably have to heat, hammer, and let cool a few times to achieve the desired domed shape. I haven't done this myself but have read somewhat on the subject. That sounds hopeful. But wouldn't hammering along the edge thin the metal and expand it rather than compacting it? I'd thought of hammering in the middle to expand it, hopefully making the whole thing bulge out, but I didn't want to make the middle thinner, and weaker. Maybe if I started out with slightly thicker metal. And, indeed, heat it to light yellow. The holes would be made afterwards with an awl and hammer on a suitable wood block. Assembling the dome onto the collar and cone involves the same sort of techniques as the can itself, folded seams and solder. Yes, that's the easy part. That seems to me an appropriately crafts-based way to do it. I hope this helps. It does, in several ways. Thanks very much Dawie. Regards Keith -Dawie --- On Tue, 2/11/10, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] A metalworking question To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Tuesday, 2 November, 2010, 20:30 Hello all If you don't mind my asking, I could use a little help with some info at the Journey to Forever website. It's about Chinese watering cans, at this page: Appropriate technology Chinese watering cans http://journeytoforever.org/at_can.html High-power rose -- tricky to make, it says. We haven't figured out how to make new roses yet, but we're working on it. We're trying twin male/female moulds using our friend Graeme Morris's recipe for a rock-hard putty made of glass-fibre resin and lime -- that way we should be able to get the holes right. See Watering can plans for details. http://journeytoforever.org/at_canplan.html It didn't work. I've made eight of these cans over the years, and when I leave I abandon the cans themselves and take the roses with me. The cans seem to be ubiquitous, they're what veg oil, methanol and so on come in. This pair is the current version: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/wcans.jpg The cans in action: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/k-wc.jpg They're very efficient - using both cans at once, two passes gives you 1 a litre per sq yd/sq metre coverage. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A metalworking question
: From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] A metalworking question To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Tuesday, 2 November, 2010, 20:30 Hello all If you don't mind my asking, I could use a little help with some info at the Journey to Forever website. It's about Chinese watering cans, at this page: Appropriate technology Chinese watering cans http://journeytoforever.org/at_can.html High-power rose -- tricky to make, it says. We haven't figured out how to make new roses yet, but we're working on it. We're trying twin male/female moulds using our friend Graeme Morris's recipe for a rock-hard putty made of glass-fibre resin and lime -- that way we should be able to get the holes right. See Watering can plans for details. http://journeytoforever.org/at_canplan.html It didn't work. I've made eight of these cans over the years, and when I leave I abandon the cans themselves and take the roses with me. The cans seem to be ubiquitous, they're what veg oil, methanol and so on come in. This pair is the current version: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/wcans.jpg The cans in action: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/k-wc.jpg They're very efficient - using both cans at once, two passes gives you 1 a litre per sq yd/sq metre coverage. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20101103/7341a137/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A metalworking question
thinner, and weaker. Maybe if I started out with slightly thicker metal. And, indeed, heat it to light yellow. The holes would be made afterwards with an awl and hammer on a suitable wood block. Assembling the dome onto the collar and cone involves the same sort of techniques as the can itself, folded seams and solder. Yes, that's the easy part. That seems to me an appropriately crafts-based way to do it. I hope this helps. It does, in several ways. Thanks very much Dawie. Regards Keith -Dawie --- On Tue, 2/11/10, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] A metalworking question To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Tuesday, 2 November, 2010, 20:30 Hello all If you don't mind my asking, I could use a little help with some info at the Journey to Forever website. It's about Chinese watering cans, at this page: Appropriate technology Chinese watering cans http://journeytoforever.org/at_can.html High-power rose -- tricky to make, it says. We haven't figured out how to make new roses yet, but we're working on it. We're trying twin male/female moulds using our friend Graeme Morris's recipe for a rock-hard putty made of glass-fibre resin and lime -- that way we should be able to get the holes right. See Watering can plans for details. http://journeytoforever.org/at_canplan.html It didn't work. I've made eight of these cans over the years, and when I leave I abandon the cans themselves and take the roses with me. The cans seem to be ubiquitous, they're what veg oil, methanol and so on come in. This pair is the current version: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/wcans.jpg The cans in action: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/k-wc.jpg They're very efficient - using both cans at once, two passes gives you 1 a litre per sq yd/sq metre coverage. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20101103/7341a137/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A metalworking question
Keith Addison wrote: Hello all If you don't mind my asking, I could use a little help with some info at the Journey to Forever website. It's about Chinese watering cans, at this page: Appropriate technology Chinese watering cans http://journeytoforever.org/at_can.html High-power rose -- tricky to make, it says. We haven't figured out how to make new roses yet, but we're working on it. We're trying twin male/female moulds using our friend Graeme Morris's recipe for a rock-hard putty made of glass-fibre resin and lime -- that way we should be able to get the holes right. See Watering can plans for details. http://journeytoforever.org/at_canplan.html I've looked at the pictures in the links, and since I'm not familiar with those types of cans I'm still struggling to get an idea of scale. What is the diameter of the rose's convex section? I'm thinking of objects that already exist, and thinking of the technique used for making steel drum (jamaican musical instrument..) but applying it to something smaller, like the end of a tin can. The corrugations in the end of the can may allow it to be hammered into a convex shape with little problem. ...or the bottom of a soda can, already has the curve, but I'm thinking that perhaps the size is smaller than you're looking for. However, if that size would work, simply fill the can, and set it in the freezer until the water freezes, then punch the holes against the ice. after the holes are punched, the curved bottom could be easily cut off, if the ice is still solid, then applied to the section of the watering can assembly. Since I don't drink soda, or buy foods in tin cans, I don't have any around here to try this out with, but maybe it'll help you on your project! doug swanson -- Bad politicians give the other percent a bad reputation * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Contentment comes not from having more, but from wanting less. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * All generalizations are false. Including this one. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Biofuels and World Hunger
Small is beautifuel - Pannir, Biofuel list. Big is not beautifuel. --0-- http://www.i-sis.org.uk/biofuelsAndWorldHunger.php ISIS Report 03/11/10 Biofuels and World Hunger Damning report confirms critic's charge that industrial biofuels are responsible for world's food and hunger crisis Dr. Mae-Wan Ho Biofuels are conservatively estimated to have been responsible for at least 30 percent of the global food price spike in 2008 that pushed 100 million people into poverty and drove some 30 million more into hunger, according to the report, Meals per gallon, released by the UK charity ActionAid in February 2010 [1]. The number of chronically hungry people now exceeds one billion. The report blames the biofuels targets set by the European Union (EU), and concomitantly, the huge financial incentives given to the biofuels industry, which together, provide a powerful driver for industrial biofuels. In 2006, the EU biofuel industry was already supported by tax exemptions and agricultural subsidies to the sum of ¤4.4 billion. In 2008, EU member states committed themselves to a target of 10 percent of transport fuels from renewable sources (i.e., biofuels) by 2020. If the same level of subsidies continues, the industry would receive ¤13.7 billion per year. If all global biofuels targets are to be met, food prices could rise by up to an additional 76 percent by 2020 and starve an extra 600 million people. Fuel vs food The main agricultural crops used for industrial biofuels are vegetable and seed oils such as palm, soy, sunflower, rapeseed, and jatropha for biodiesel, maize, wheat and sugars for ethanol. Except for jatropha (see later), the feedstock are all food crops. The most immediate effect of the push for industrial biofuels is to compete with food for feedstock, thereby inflating food prices. The Food and Agricultural Organisation estimates that in 2008/9, 125 million tonnes of cereals were diverted into biofuel production. In 2010, more cereal (1 107 million tonnes) were diverted into animal feed and industrial uses than for feeding people (1 013 million tonnes). Overall, world food prices increased by 75 percent from 2006 to the middle of 2008, but the price for staple food grains (such as wheat, rice and maize) went up by 126 percent. For the 82 low income food deficient countries, import bills shot up. Each 10 percent increase in the price of cereals adds nearly US$4.5 billion to the total cereals import cost of developing countries that are net importers. Independent analysts have concluded that industrial biofuels have been responsible for 30 to 75 percent of the global food price increase in 2008. To make matters much worse, huge tracts of land have been taken out of food production, exacerbating landlessness everywhere (see [2] 'Land Rush' as Threats to Food Security Intensify, SiS 46). ActionAid reports that [1] in just five African countries 1.1 million hectares have been given over to industrial biofuels for export; while 1.4 million ha were taken over simultaneously to produce food for export. As biofuels displace food from agricultural land in developed countries, and as rich countries run out of water for agriculture, food production is increasingly outsourced to cheap land available in poor countries [2]. Food and fuel are competing everywhere for land. EU companies have already acquired or requested at least five million hectares of land for industrial biofuels in developing countries [1]. Just to meet the EU's ten percent target would require 17.5 million hectares for growing biofuels in developing countries. Landlessness and hunger While driving up food prices can create hunger, driving people off the land that they have traditionally cultivated deprives them of the last resort of growing their own food. This is happening all over the developing world. In Mozambique, farms are destroyed for industrial biofuels. Elisa Alimone Mongue, mother and farmer said: I don't have a farm, I don't have a garden, .. the only land I have has been destroyed. We are just suffering with hunger, .. even if I go to look for another farm, they will just destroy it again. They actually took the land when it was already tilledThey haven't paid us anything What we want is to get our farms back because that is what our livelihood is dependent on we are dying of hunger and there is nothing we have that is actually our own. Matilde Ngoene, another mother and farmer said. Julio Ngoene is fighting to save his community and its way of life. He is the village chief of approximately 100 households of more than 1 000 people. A biofuel company is setting up a project near his village and has taken over 80 percent of the village farmland without permission, and destroyed the crops. At the beginning of the project, the company promised to resettle the village, but two years later, Julio and the villagers have still hear nothing, and no one in the
