RE: [biofuel] Re: tap water?
Thanks Steve, but here I'll do it on much, much smaller scale. Alex I just pull up with the truck, and pump or dump it in. I have a schedule set up with the owners. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Aleksander Gontarz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 6:27 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: tap water? > Dear Christian, > Can you tell me how do you want to plan to pick up used oil from the > restaurants? Will you, for example, leave there your containers and give > them your phone number or else? Maybe it's a silly question, but I want to > rus something simmilar in my town (in the future) so I want to know how to > do it for the best results. Thanks for all the informations! > Greetings, > Alex > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] (anhydrous) S.M. and glycerol protonisation, titration,
Dear Andreas, Your ideas presented here are worth to try. Although some problems can appear. First. The anhydrous S.M. is an unpleasant compound to work with. It reacts violently with water and it's expensive to purify it more than in 95%. The mechanism of the alkaline based transestrification shows that NaOH is the catalist not the S.M. NaOH and MeOH (or any other alcohol) form an ion RO- (R=the carbon chain). And that ion reacts with the ester. After that reaction (di)glyceride ions can be found, and as you said ,they react with water, and the alcohol is formed (plus our catalist NaOH). To make biodiesel with high productivity, we have to use excess of methanol, to prevent the early state of balance . Of course we also remove glycerine (it removes itself :)). If you would like to use S.M. you have to use an excess of it. After the reaction, the excess of S.M. which didn't react with fats, during first washing , will react with water causing a little explosion and a fire (in the worst case). I think that you can use S.M. only as a catalist (instead of NaOH , not NaOH and MeOH). Second. The phenolophtalein is a very good indicator. I would prefere to use it and the pH meter for support. But this is only my thought and that isn't the point. Man must remember to calibrate the pH meter on good buffors and scan the T first. The colour of the solution depends on how much phen. did you use. If the pale purple colour doesn't bleed after few minutes and good steering - that's the end. The colour, as you know comes from the reaction of phen. and OH- ions so it shows the excess of OH- ions. And the diference beetwen pH 7 (all f.f.a. gone) and pH 8.3 - 10 (the value for phen. purple colour) is very small (a single drop for low volume solutions). Third. Higher T also helps soap formation. If you have an oil with high amount of f.f.a. you could use Aleks Kac's "foolproof" two stage production, it's very good and not so complicated as it seems. Greetings, Alex -Original Message- From: andreasjansen7 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 5:37 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] (anhydrous) S.M. and glycerol protonisation, titration, My name is Andreas Jansen, student for Environmental Management in The Netherlands, however since a year taking part at the MSc for Renewable Energy Systems Technology at Crest in Loughborough, UK. My dissertation started 4 weeks ago and is about the topic "biodiesel". Therefore I have to optimise a small-scale prototype installation running on used cooking oil for a company, which is just three years in business, not having much experience yet, which makes the work and support for me sometimes rather difficult. For this I read lot of abstracts, however my chemical background is not so very strong, still for some understanding sufficient. However there are some topics where I struggle with and cannot find an answer to: 1. When considering Sodium Hydroxide as catalyst for alkaline based transesterification I wonder about the following things: A reaction mechanism tells me, that the methanol and sodium hydroxide form S.M. and water. S.M. catalyses the transesterification and at the end the H+-ion from the previous formed water is deprotonated by the diglyceride-ion (or later mono-glyceride- or even later glycerol- ion) to form a fully alcohol group and finally glycerol. My concern is whether this combination of H+-ion and (di)glyceride-ion is necessary to occur or whether in the glycerol-layer after separation also (di)glyceride-ions may be found if not all (di)glyceride-ions have had combined with the H+-ions from the water? A catalyst should be found back at the end (if not saponified), that is what a catalyst defines, or? Therefore only glycerol but no (di)glyceride-ions should be found? Furthermore, if now assumed that anhydrous S.M. powder as catalyst is used, would that (under the assumption that H+-ions must react with a (di)glyceride-ions to form the glycerol) mean, that water must be deprotonated and if water is initially present in the oil this water would be removed, thus lowering the saponification reaction between f.f.a., water and Na+-ions?? That would be quite a benefit to consider buying S.M. powder instead of producing S.M. self by mixing Me-OH and NaOH! 2. When doing previous the reaction a titration to determine the degree of f.f.a. I take 1 ml oil and dissolve it in 10 ml iso- propanol. pH meter and litmus-pH-paper give different results during titration and the indicator (phenolphthalein) is not behaving like expected. It first tends only very, very light purple but remains like this, only if ~0,5 ml more NaOH solution is added (than at a pH of 10) it is turning totally purple. I thought a indicator colours or does not but the very light purple colour which stays and does not disappears after stirring more confuses me a lot? Concerning the difference in pH meter and paper I think to trust the meter, but if the oil
RE: [biofuel] Re: tap water?
Dear Christian, Can you tell me how do you want to plan to pick up used oil from the restaurants? Will you, for example, leave there your containers and give them your phone number or else? Maybe it's a silly question, but I want to rus something simmilar in my town (in the future) so I want to know how to do it for the best results. Thanks for all the informations! Greetings, Alex Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Pp91HA/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] tap water?
Hi Christian! I didn't make much biodiesel yet, but I'm a chemist and I can tell you that tap water is perfect (in relation quality - expenses) for washing biodiesel. We are talking here about sub - massive production (not for laboratory scale) so distilled water is unnecesary expense. Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Beyond Oil The Future of Energy NEWSWEEK
Dear Reinhard. It doesn't help us at all. I was just thinking about the case that we shouldn't frighten people with instantaneous lack of fossil oil based fuels but we should educate them that the use of those fuels leeds us even to selfdestruction. So what does it help us if we have some more fossil ois for some more years? Reinhard "Aleksander Gontarz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > Greetings! > > According to the knowledge of few Russian geologists I've met once there is > much undiscovered oil left in Russian Siberia and other their lands. That > country is to big to be checked yet. So there can be some oil for next 150 > years. They are looking for it, because they are in a great need of money, > but they've probably foud about 25-32%. > > -Original Message- > From: MH [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 9:15 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [biofuel] Beyond Oil The Future of Energy NEWSWEEK > > > Beyond Oil The Future of Energy > NEWSWEEK > http://www.msnbc.com/news/nw-futureenergy_front.asp > > When Wells Go Dry >Energy: The rate of global oil production will start to fall in just a > few years, >says a controversial geologist. And alternative technologies aren't ready > yet > > Hot Springs Eternal > Hydrogen Power: People mocked Bragi Arnason's vision of producing energy > from the H in H2O. Now the first test is about to be launched in his > native > Iceland. Next: the world? > > Sun in the Forecast > Solar Energy: The price isn't competitive yet, but the technology gets > closer > all the time > > Taking the Breeze > Electricity: New technologies make Europe take another look at wind as a > power source > > The Thirst for Oil >Bush warns of the worst energy crisis since the '70s. But even if that's > so, >his strategy-pump more U.S. oil-wouldn't solve it. The anatomy of a bad >policy > > Pipeline Brigade >President Bush is arming troops to protect Occidental Petroleum in >Colombia. What next? > > The Atom Option >The world is warming and oil is politically troublesome, but nuclear > power is >being left out of most energy plans. A noted physicist argues that this > is >shortsighted > > Web Exclusives > The Future of Fuel-Efficient Cars >Designers have built cars that can run on everything from soybean oil to > solar >power. So why aren't we driving them? > > Interactives > MSNBC: High-tech Oil Drilling >Thanks to technology, drilling for oil has become more of a science than > a >matter of luck > > MSNBC: The U.S. Power Grid >An interactive outlining how the U.S. power grid system works, with a >spotlight on California > > > ` > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Beyond Oil The Future of Energy NEWSWEEK
MH, I can't tell you anything about the tension in the Middle East but people who live in poor countries think about their hunger first and take care about the environment when it is too late. That is sad. On the other hand, bussines connected with oil empires is not interested in non oil fuels (for now).The oil empires with their money and connections are blocking creation of f.ex. "zero tax laws" for biodiesel (in my country) what makes it too expensive for people in these days of crisis. What people need is education and the ability to think about future generations what isn't easy in our "rat race" societies. > From: MH > Beyond Oil The Future of Energy > NEWSWEEK > http://www.msnbc.com/news/nw-futureenergy_front.asp MH wrote: Eureka, more oil. Aleksander this is good but leaves me with some uncertainty. Will this diminish the Middle East tension or world demand ? How do the majority of the people in those areas feel about this politically and socially ? Will the world be able to afford the cost of doing business in a competitive global market place with so little oil competition in the coming years ? Will cost & supply be disrupted as need & greed increase ? World dependence upon coal, crude oil and natural gas still remains and the uncertainty of global economic conditions for billions of people who may lack some of these resources namely energy, food, currency, trade goods, education, medical assistance, technology, etc. will leave some angry & desperate for ` Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Beyond Oil The Future of Energy NEWSWEEK
Greetings! According to the knowledge of few Russian geologists I've met once there is much undiscovered oil left in Russian Siberia and other their lands. That country is to big to be checked yet. So there can be some oil for next 150 years. They are looking for it, because they are in a great need of money, but they've probably foud about 25-32%. -Original Message- From: MH [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 9:15 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Beyond Oil The Future of Energy NEWSWEEK Beyond Oil The Future of Energy NEWSWEEK http://www.msnbc.com/news/nw-futureenergy_front.asp When Wells Go Dry Energy: The rate of global oil production will start to fall in just a few years, says a controversial geologist. And alternative technologies arenât ready yet Hot Springs Eternal Hydrogen Power: People mocked Bragi Arnasonâs vision of producing energy from the H in H2O. Now the first test is about to be launched in his native Iceland. Next: the world? Sun in the Forecast Solar Energy: The price isnât competitive yet, but the technology gets closer all the time Taking the Breeze Electricity: New technologies make Europe take another look at wind as a power source The Thirst for Oil Bush warns of the worst energy crisis since the â70s. But even if thatâs so, his strategy÷pump more U.S. oil÷wouldnât solve it. The anatomy of a bad policy Pipeline Brigade President Bush is arming troops to protect Occidental Petroleum in Colombia. What next? The Atom Option The world is warming and oil is politically troublesome, but nuclear power is being left out of most energy plans. A noted physicist argues that this is shortsighted Web Exclusives The Future of Fuel-Efficient Cars Designers have built cars that can run on everything from soybean oil to solar power. So why arenât we driving them? Interactives MSNBC: High-tech Oil Drilling Thanks to technology, drilling for oil has become more of a science than a matter of luck MSNBC: The U.S. Power Grid An interactive outlining how the U.S. power grid system works, with a spotlight on California ` Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
