[biofuel] Re: Solar to Noncarbon Fuels Other Than H2
x-charset ISO-8859-1 Hi Ken, Any idea what the energy content is of a kg of hydrazine would be? -Bruce *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 02:28:28 -0800 (PST) From: Ken Gotberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Solar to Noncarbon Fuels Other Than H2 Hi Murdoch, Greg, and April Hydrazine is a liquid at normal temps (mp 2C, bp 113C) and while no longer used as a rocket booster fuel, it is used for positioning/microcontroller jets. The technology is fairly developed now and could make sense as an earthbound vehicle fuel. Nitrogen compounds are used in explosives due to high energy/power densities and Im not sure how big a potential problem this is, perhaps on the same order as H2 without the storage problems. People developing rockets face the same problems as, more so, trying to get the most useful energy out of a fuel with the least amount of mass. Noncarbon fuel alternatives at this juncture are in electric storage (batteries, ultracapacitors,?), mechanical storage in things like flywheels, and various fuel cells. Probably others that list members may know about. One more possibility to look at and N2 is available everywhere, ~800,000 ppm in the atmosphere versus ~350 ppm for CO2 used in biofuels. There are other nitrogen fuels besides hydrazine that may also be potential candidates. Heres a link to rocket fuels And about hydrazine http://www.astronautix.com/props/hydazine.htm Fuel: Hydrazine. Fuel Density: 1.01 g/cc. Fuel Freezing Point: 2.00 deg C. Fuel Boiling Point: 113.00 deg C. Hydrazine (N2H4) found early use as a fuel, but it was quickly replaced by UDMH. It is still used as a monopropellant for satellite station-keeping motors. Hydrazine marketed for rocket propellant contains a minimum of 97 per cent N2H4, the other constituent being primarily water. Hydrazine is a clear, water-white, hygroscopic liquid. The solid is white. Hydrazine a toxic, flammable caustic liquid and a strong reducing agent. Its odour is similar that of ammonia, though less strong. It is slightly soluble in ammonia and methyl-amine. It is soluble in water, methanol, ethanol, UDMH, and ethylenediamine. Hydrazine is manufactured by the Raschig process, which involves the oxidation of ammonia to chloramine, either indirectly with aqueous sodium hypochlorite or directly with chlorine, and subsequent reaction of chloramine with excess ammonia. Raw materials include caustic, ammonia, and chlorine; these are high-tonnage, heavy chemicals. The cost of anhydrous hydrazine in drum quantities in 1959 was $ 7.00 per kg. The projected price, based on large-scale commercial production, was expected to be $ 1.00 per kg. Due to environmental regulations, by 1990 NASA was paying $ 17.00 per kg. Best regards, Ken Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
[biofuel] Re: Hydrogen Economy
Hi, I'm an engineer at a company that designs fuel reformers to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen, mostly for fuel cell applications but also for other applications. I'm not necessarily advocating this as a solution to our dependence on fossil fuels, but there are a couple factors that many people fail to consider when discussing these options. First, fuel cell systems that run on hydrogen are much more efficient than internal combustion engines. For example, a fuel cell car that runs on hydrogen reformed from gasoline will get about 50% more miles per gallon than a typical automobile. Same fuel goes into the tank but less is used for the same amount of work. Secondly, the current administration is having very little impact on the development of this technology. The $1.2 billion that Bush promised for fuel cell development is a tiny fraction of what would be required to spur industry to refocus efforts towards a new technology. In the end, the technology that makes the most economic sense and earns the highest level of confidence from the public will win. I've got my money on biodiesel as the fuel of the future. -Bruce --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would agree with you, if it was higher R/P values for natural gas. With the current 7 years for US, the demands of independence of import becomes an even a more impossible dream. I do not have to describe the current US situation on NG again. Hydrogen from NG achieve nothing and the best bet is coal/nuclear at the end. It is already feverish activities in US to build a lot more nuclear power stations. Hydrogen production at home? That will make Osama bin Laden happy. Hakan At 06:27 PM 9/20/2003, you wrote: Initially Hydrogen will come from US coal reserves and then central production with huge Nuclear Power Stations. To diversify from this, to consumer level is at best a naive dream and probably a deliberate attempt of scam. To some extent I think it will also come from natural gas reformed at the level of the home (and let us remember that H2 is presently usually made from Natural Gas... about 90% I think). And, as Ken points out, from simple electrolysis using electricity delivered to the home. If they must have their H2 economy, I'd like to see H2 made from other sources, such as methane made from biomass, if they want to establish a sustainable economy of H2, but what do I know. To hook up your car for consumer production of one of the most difficult gases to handle, cannot be a realistic dream. Osama bin Laden would be happy to know that the Americans will blow up themselves at the end. Maybe they are now building arguments for Bush to take the taxpayers money and pay for the upgrade of the grid. Hakan At 08:42 AM 9/20/2003, you wrote: Hi Here's my two cents worth on the hydrogen economy. Electrolysis of water is what will happen and the car companies are promoting plugging into your home at night to charge up for the morning commute. How much extra capacity will power companies need to install to charge up all these hydrogen cars? Let's say your car averages 20-horsepower (~15kW) for an hour a day = 54MJoules/day. I read somewhere that an average house uses 0.75kW and if this means 24 hours per day, 65MJoules/day. It would interesting if anyone has an average electric bill for comparison. A lot of energy will be needed to charge up all those millions of hydrogen cars and where will it come from? Best regards, Ken Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV Easily record your favorite shows! CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WUMW7B/85qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
