Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question
Mechanical agitation will increase the kinetic energy of the molecules thus
temperature.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of James Pfeiffer
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:27 PM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org;
biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question
Hey Mike. I'm a novice too but, for what it's worth, in my first 10
test batches in a blender I have gotten a pretty substantial
temperature increase during mixing - between 10F and 20F increase
depending on how long I mixed the batch (from 25 to 45 minutes) and
whether it was my first, 2nd or 3rd batch of the evening (basically
preheating the blender). In my first couple of batches I tried to
insulate the blender with a towel because I was worried that the
mixture would cool during blending. After I saw such significant
temperature gains, I took off the towel. I believe that the
temperature increase is due to friction of the blades - I don't know if
it is an exothermic reaction.
As I write this email, I'm running another test batch. the oil was
heated to 148F before putting it into a cold blender. When I started
processing, the mixture was 122F and 42 minutes later it is at 145F.
I'm processing 40 minutes instead of the 20 to 30 minutes recommended
on Journey-to-forever just because I'm trying to ensure a complete
reaction.
Hope that's useful.
Jim
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:49:05 +0900 To:
biofuel@sustainablelists.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question Methanol
shouldn't vaporize until 148.46 deg F assuming the atmospheric
pressure in you area is 760mmHg. That's the boiling point of
methanol. It starts to evaporate at much lower temperatures than
that. Temperature maintenance is one of the reasons we recommend a
mini-processor rather than a blender: You can use a spare blender,
or, better, make a simple Test-batch mini-processor.
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor7.html Another reason
is that processing in a blender doesn't scale up well to a full-sized
processor, blenders are too fast. Scaling up:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html#scale Best
Keith Best, Chris -Original Message- From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Steve Moran Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:46 PM To:
sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org;
sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]
biodiesel test batch question I think (but I'm not sure) that
methanol will evaporate at 140, is that correct? If it is, then
keeping the temp below that would become very important too.
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of
Thomas Kelly Sent: Mon 4/28/2008 6:39 PM To:
sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]
biodiesel test batch question Mike, Test batches
can be difficult .. well worth the effort. Blenders provide
excellent agitation, but it is difficult to maintain the proper
temp. PET bottles allow one to maintain temp better, but agitation
may be inadequate. It is important to maintain temp
even if you must interupt agitation. Suggestion: Achieve the
temp of 130F, blend for 5 minutes, check temp If necessary,
carefully return the liquid to a container to be heated.
Return to blender and repeat 2 (3?) more times I use a hot
water bath for heating the mix. Do you have a pot big enough to fit
the blender pitcher into? The pot would contain hot (~150F)
water. Instead of pouring the hot mix back and forth you could simply
place the pitcher from the blender, with top on, into the hot
water bath to re-establish the 130F, blot dry and buzz it again.
I have returned to doing some test batches. I favor heating the
mix in a PET bottle that has a wide mouth with a twist
open/close top. Sport drink plastic bottles often have this
feature. This allows me to limit methanol evaporation while
heating the mix. I either twist the top to open while heating or I
squeeze the bottle to decrease volume of air before closing and
heating. The wide mouth and a funnel make it easy to add the liquid. I
heat the mix in a hot water bath. Good Luck, Tom
- Original Message - From: mike
[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent:
Monday, April 28, 2008 3:57 PM Subject: [Biofuel] biodiesel test
batch question Hello everyone, my first post
i want to apologize if this has been answered, but I have searched
the archives and relevant sites without finding a clear answer.
I've been reading the j2f howto for doing my first test
batch with unused veg oil and a blender. I see that I'm suppose
to pre-heat the oil before starting the process to 130 deg F,
but everything else i read says I need to maintain that
temperature
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question
Hi Mike Heat the oil further to about 145 deg F to compensate for cooling. Hopefully the heat will be enough to last the duration of the process. You can also insulate your blender with buble wrap. Best, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 11:58 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question Hello everyone, my first post i want to apologize if this has been answered, but I have searched the archives and relevant sites without finding a clear answer. I've been reading the j2f howto for doing my first test batch with unused veg oil and a blender. I see that I'm suppose to pre-heat the oil before starting the process to 130 deg F, but everything else i read says I need to maintain that temperature which isn't possible without moving the oil back to another container that can be heated so I guess basically i'm asking, is that temp (130) required for the reaction or does it just aid in a faster reaction. Thanks Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question
Methanol shouldn't vaporize until 148.46 deg F assuming the atmospheric pressure in you area is 760mmHg. Best, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Moran Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:46 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org; sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question I think (but I'm not sure) that methanol will evaporate at 140, is that correct? If it is, then keeping the temp below that would become very important too. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Thomas Kelly Sent: Mon 4/28/2008 6:39 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question Mike, Test batches can be difficult .. well worth the effort. Blenders provide excellent agitation, but it is difficult to maintain the proper temp. PET bottles allow one to maintain temp better, but agitation may be inadequate. It is important to maintain temp even if you must interupt agitation. Suggestion: Achieve the temp of 130F, blend for 5 minutes, check temp If necessary, carefully return the liquid to a container to be heated. Return to blender and repeat 2 (3?) more times I use a hot water bath for heating the mix. Do you have a pot big enough to fit the blender pitcher into? The pot would contain hot (~150F) water. Instead of pouring the hot mix back and forth you could simply place the pitcher from the blender, with top on, into the hot water bath to re-establish the 130F, blot dry and buzz it again. I have returned to doing some test batches. I favor heating the mix in a PET bottle that has a wide mouth with a twist open/close top. Sport drink plastic bottles often have this feature. This allows me to limit methanol evaporation while heating the mix. I either twist the top to open while heating or I squeeze the bottle to decrease volume of air before closing and heating. The wide mouth and a funnel make it easy to add the liquid. I heat the mix in a hot water bath. Good Luck, Tom - Original Message - From: mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 3:57 PM Subject: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question Hello everyone, my first post i want to apologize if this has been answered, but I have searched the archives and relevant sites without finding a clear answer. I've been reading the j2f howto for doing my first test batch with unused veg oil and a blender. I see that I'm suppose to pre-heat the oil before starting the process to 130 deg F, but everything else i read says I need to maintain that temperature which isn't possible without moving the oil back to another container that can be heated so I guess basically i'm asking, is that temp (130) required for the reaction or does it just aid in a faster reaction. Thanks Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
