Re: [Biofuel] Any Diesel gurus put there?
hello Mike Well I have a few grays going. if you crack the fuel line at the injector and crank it there should be fuel right now it sounds like there is air in the lines. if you have no fuel at the start of cranking crack all the injector feed lines. crank until you get fuel this works best if you have help you should get fuel soon on the injector line closest to the pump. while still cranking close of the line with the fuel and go to the next in line and do the same. the enginge will start to lope as you close off the lines and each cylinder fires. (do not crank for to long the starter will burn up) and you will end up with other problems on top of what you have. but if you have fuel at the start of all this stop. check to make sure there is no restriction in the intake and exhaust there could have been a critter looking for a worm place to stay in the cold months. good luck Derick. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 9:12 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Any Diesel gurus put there? Possibly the injector gummed up over the winter... but I left my VW rabbit under a snowbank all winter, and on a warm day in April after it melted out, it started right up and ran like before. B100 in the tank, which I know was solid several times over the winter. I am not familiar with this little diesel engine, but is it possible that the valves or injector timing could be messed up? Complete unrelated to the storing it issue -- but something may have happened coincidentally, like an adjustment bolt slipping loose from the vibration of running when it first started this spring. The fact that even ether won't start it is odd -- my VW will start on ether with no glow plugs, on a below freezing day, with B100 in it (I try to avoid that, because I'm afraid of breaking the pistons, but I have done it once or twice when my glow plugs all burned out). That seems to point to a possible timing issue. Depending on how the injector for this works, the timing could be affected by the injector being gummed too -- I know that the unitary injectors on my dad's old bulldozer are pretty complicated things with four or five moving parts compared to a standard injector designed to run from a separate injector pump. Z On 5/15/07, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's possible. I don't really know much about diesels - I mostly worked on gas engines way back. The fule lines seem tight. I'm going to run a solvent through the entire fuel system - maybe the injector is gummed up. Thnaks for the responnce! -Mike A. Lawrence wrote: Any chance you've disturbed something and it's sucking some air now?? Go over the whole system carefully... Easier to pull in air than fuel... - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 7:28 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Any Diesel gurus put there? Greetings all, Left my 4.7 HP Changfa diesel outside in the shed through the winter and now it won't start. I left it with about 1/2 a tank of BD in it, and actually I did get it to start and run twice as soon as the weather warmed up (this week). It started with a fair amount of black smoke as it usually does then I ran it for a few minutes and shut it off. Usually when diesels have a starting problem it's fuel delivery, so I pulled the lines apart, cleaned everything including the injector. I checked the spray pattern and it looks good. I drained out all the old BD and filled it with fresh petro diesel and cranked it until the line filled up again. But, it won't start. So being an old hand at automotive diesels, I linked two 12 V batteries in series to get 24 volts, which pretty much doubles the crankiing speed, and cranked it until the engine got good and warm. As it is heating up I know it's firing some, but not enough to catch. I gave it a few shots of ether and that seems to bring it closer to running, but I don't want to blow a hole in the piston. Right now it feels as if it will almost catch, but now quite. It produces a ton of white smoke, which usually means fuel delivery problems, but it really does seem to be pumping enough fuel. I haven't really wrenched in years, but my guess is that the injector is somehow messed up. BTW, the engine is new and has almost no hours on it. Any greybeards out there with advice? TIA, Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___
Re: [Biofuel] Re-processing troubles
This brings up what has happened to me the last few days but before I go there let me tell you. don't try to get rid of what you have made.I to have done this same thing and have found that if you take 1/2 ltr sample of your failure and add 2 grams methoxide and represses the mix in a pet bottle as if you were going to make a test batch. if no success add 2 more and so on until there is a separation. now for my nightmare last year a picked up 100 ltrs of w.v.o. at the local Chinese restaurant put it through my dewater tank and decanted as always into my 120 ltr reactor tank and it sat there all winter long 2 weeks ago I started titration tests came up with 4 +3.5 treated 1/2 liter with the concentrated methoxide. and nothing did this a few times but the same titration every time. so I started doing test batches. adding 2 grams lye at a time and ended up with 12 gpl methoxide seemed very bad for a Chinese restaurant but what the hell mixed up the 24 liters of fresh methanol with 1400 grams of lye processed hour at 135 deg F let it settle for a few hours and found it was turning into sludge. I then turned the heater back on and added 2 gpl methox processed once more knowing it would get better. the next day I found 120 liters of thick almost lard mix. so I took 1/2 liter for test adding 6 grams per ltr and it now looks clear very dark much darker than the oil ever did with no glycerin layer. there is a fuzzy blend on the bottom of the bottle. I would like to save this but with all the methoxide in the mix I don't think there is a way to wash this but it should make a very expensive and fantastic drain cleaner. (just kidding). any help out there I figured with the vast resources out there maybe just maybe I can save this. thanks Derick. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Wilson Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 11:45 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Re-processing troubles Hi all, Reading Shawn's post today was interesting because I was going to post myself about a re-processing question. I started making bio with 1 and 2 liter batches as per the instructions on Journey to Forever (thanks again for the great site!), and had moderate success, just like Shawn. I would have a small emulsion layer, perhaps 1/4-1/2 in the first wash. Talking to some local biodieselistas here in New Mexico, they said go ahead and wash it, and if by the third wash it separates quickly and cleanly, it's probably alright. Well, I got curious and tried to reprocess a batch anyway as per the directions of JtF: If you have an emulsion any thicker than the normal paper thin interface layer between oil and water, the batch should be retreated. Retreat as with fresh oil http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodnew , with the standard 3.5 g of lye per litre of oil but using only 100 ml methanol per litre of oil. My batch separated out a bit more glycerin, but when when I went to wash it, it turned into Milk and, to this day, has not separated. I didn't think much about it and kept processing small batches until I got one that worked fairly well. Okay, fast forward a few months: We built a 55 gal. drum processor and have done four batches with it. The first one came out with a bit of an emulsion later (more than I wanted), so I increased the processing time to two hours. Second batch came out much cleaner. Good wash, nice clear fuel when dry. The third batch I messed up by miscalculating the amount of lye...used 3.5g/liter (as per NaOH) instead of the 5.5g./liter I actually needed for our 90% KOH! As you can imagine, the batch came out pretty badly! We settled out as much bio as we could and after three washes used about 25 gallons of this and 15 gallons WVO in the next batch. I preheated the batch to 140 degrees (to dewater), let it settle for a day or two, and titrated. It titrated at 1.5, so I used 1050g. of lye (150 liters of oil, and 30 liters of methanol), and reprocessed as per a batch of WVO. When I went to do a 2nd wash this morning (forgot to do a bottle test- doh!), it came out as tan milk. It had settled overnight. There was no biodiesel on the top- the whole batch looks like a latte! I am going to try to separate out at least some of the batch, but I'm afraid to try to re-process again. Meanwhile, I've got 40 gal. of muck I have to get rid of Any input would be welcome! Thanks for the time, Matt Wilson _ The fish are biting. Get http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49679/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/spon soredsearch_v2.php?o=US2140cmp=Yahooctv=Q107Taglines=Ys2=EMb=50 more visitors on your site using Yahoo! http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49679/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/spon soredsearch_v2.php?o=US2140cmp=Yahooctv=Q107Taglines=Ys2=EMb=50 Search Marketing. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel compatible gravity-fed filter?
Well that has a long explanation. if you talk about summer here 90 deg + just 2 to 3 days works well in the winter it can take much longer since it has a tendency to get a little thick. Take a soda bottle sample and put it in the window or worm place if it doesn't get better there is something wrong with the process you did. I have had batches that pass all the quality tests but I have a layer between the clear fuel and the water. I have tried to dose this muck with vinegar or salt no good . Heated the crap out of it still no good. I also tried to re treat the glop and it just doesn't want to work. But that is only every now and again. Seems to depend on the source. And as I said only a thin layer 1/4 1n a 120m liter batch. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 4:19 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel compatible gravity-fed filter? Hello Derick How long does it normally take the cloudy biodiesel to clear, without using the filter? Best Keith Hello Matt I have used a under the sink type water filter for experimental purposes. it has a 1 fitting on both sides. I used a 2 micron carbon filter element for the micron size only. the string filter was 20 micron. I put freshly processed and washed cloudy bio in and got crystal clear fuel out. I have no idea what the carbon does to the mix pros or cons. maybe some one on the list has some insight. Good luck Derick. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Wilson Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 12:46 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel compatible gravity-fed filter? Thanks, Keith! Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Matt Why bother? Not worth the trouble. If you make your biodiesel properly, everything that a filter might remove will be in the by-product layer, not the biodiesel. So settle it properly, separate it carefully, and use it. No need to filter it. No need to filter the oil first either, as these two previous posts show: http://snipurl.com/1j20b Re: [Biofuel] Filtering - was Re: Vegtable oil sources... http://snipurl.com/1j20c Re: [Biofuel] Filtering - was Re: Vegtable oil sources... Best Keith Hey all, I would like to filter our biodiesel between our drying/storage 55 gal. drum and the truck. We are using gravity to fill jugs, then use the jugs to fill the tank- we don't have a dedicated fuel pump. I am having a hard time finding an in-line 3/4 fuel filter that is biodiesel compatible but still filters to around 5-10 microns without needing pump pressure. I purchased a Goldenrod no. 495 gravity filter, but they only suggest it for B20. Bio-tek's High alcohol filter works with B100, but I was told that it needs the pressure of a pump. Any ideas, or am I chasing a mythical beast? Thanks, Matt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels
sounds like fuel to me i have a 04 dodge with the cummins engine the lift pump was mounted on the filter housing. after 2 miles it went south . the dealer had a retro fit system for it that is mounted it the tank. it is easier to push fuel than pull it. not sure where chevy has the lift pump but bio has heavyer viscosity thn dino. add a cold morning to that and wala. good luck with the problem. Derick _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erik Lane Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 7:28 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels I would agree that it's a fuel supply issue as well. I had the same problem, but not with biodiesel. (I don't yet have a setup to make any.) I'm not sure if you have a sock-type filter in the fuel tank, (I think all cars should have them!!) but you should check that and all the lines up to the filters and all the way to the injection pump. It can be a faulty pump, but with those symptoms I would think a restriction is more likely. If the supply pump was pulling a vacuum against a restriction it would cause exactly what you describe and then restart when the pressures had equalized in the fuel lines. All 6.2 engines that I've ever heard of were purely mechanical injection. It's easy to check. Look at the injection pump. It should have 3 wires going to it - one pink that's the fuel cut-off solenoid and two green that are the cold idle connections. If there's a bunch more wires (something like 8-12 I think) then it could be a computer, but that would be the first I heard of. I guess speaking of electrical it could even be that shut-off solenoid or a connection to it, but I doubt it. I've only seen them work consistently or fail completely. (Not that my experience is all that exhaustive.) Good luck! Erik On 4/23/07, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm. I didn't think that computers were introduced till the second or third year of the 6.5 liter versions. All the 6.2's were mechanical injection. I've got a friend with a mechanical 6.5 that he runs on B100, and except for gelling issues in the winter, he says it has always run fine. Sounds like a fuel supply issue. Maybe the lift pump is weak and the injection pump is momentarily exhausting the supply of fuel in the filter. A clogged or gelled filter can also behave like this -- fine for the first 10 seconds of hard acceleration up a hill, then kaput, as the flowrate demanded by the injection pump exceeds the flowrate through the partially clogged filter. And if you let it set for little, the filter will re-fill, and it runs fine again. On my mitsubishi truck, I had to change the filter about 4 times over the first year when I switched to biodiesel. Around 1000 miles, 3000 miles, 6,000 miles, and 10,000 miles. On 4/23/07, Jan Warnqvist mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, he has. Once was enough. - Original Message - From: John Beale mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels Ask him if he's replaced his fuel filter since switching to Biodiesel. On Apr 23, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: He has consumed approx. 600 ltrs and encountered problems from the very beginning. - Original Message - From: John Beale To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels But did he make the switch recently or has he been running biodiesel for years and he's just now experiencing problems? John On Apr 23, 2007, at 8:21 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: He is running on 100% BD and the problems began immedeately on the first tank of BD. - Original Message - From: John Beale To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels How long ago did he switch to biodiesel and is he running on 100% BD or a mix? John On Apr 23, 2007, at 7:09 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello everybody in the New World and others. I have an aquintance who is running his Chevy 6,2 litre truck on biodiesel, and he experiences mysterious engine stops etc. The car will start immedeatly again after a few seconds. He suspects it to be a computer bug in the injection system.Anybody with similar problems ? AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol Prices?
Wow do you get a kiss with that ? I am paying $3.50 a gal from a fuel supplier as off road fuel no road tax. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Corey Cauble Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 4:04 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Methanol Prices? I am interested in finding out the going rate for Methanol these days. I found a local distributor but they seem very over priced @ $600+ for a 55 gallon drum. Or $10.90 a gallon Anyone know the going rate per gallon these days? I was expecting around $200 for 55 gallons. Am I dreaming? Corey ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Drivers face road charge by satellite in UK *#
I feel the pain. Here in the states we pay 95 + cents on a gal where the cost is $2.67 for regular. And here in California we have the worst road conditions in the nation. This I have been told by long haul truckers. So where is all the cash going? As far as freedom thats a dead issue. I feel the governments of the world have gotten to the point that we work for them not the other way around. And that pisses me off to no end. But I think we are all in a somewhat the same boat. The bio fuel movement is going strong here but big brother is so involved in the big guys that the cost becomes prohibitive for people to buy if they cant make there own. This should show us how the almighty $ is s much more important than the polution problem. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 12:31 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Drivers face road charge by satellite in UK *# Dear DM, This must be a hoax. Any MP with half a brain would just add to the fuel tax to achieve this result. Redgards, Wendell From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/01/01 Mon AM 07:04:19 CST To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;@unspecified-domain Subject: [Biofuel] Drivers face road charge by satellite in UK UK - Road tax - Government petition From: Loren Brown Subject: FW: Road tax - Government petition This is the biggest move to tax infringe on privacy ever proposed in this Country [UK]! It was stated on the news this morning (27th November 2006) one of the reasons this proposal has been suggested was to raise money for possible road building and improvements to existing roads. It should be noted that all the money currently collected by the DVLA for road fund licences, only 23% - 24% is actually spent on road building and improvements! The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it. The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working Mum who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month. On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit you can expect an NIP with your monthly bill. If you care about our freedoms and stopping the constant bashing of the car driver, please sign the petition on No 10's new website, sign up here http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/Even if you don't have a car please feel free to forward this e-mail on. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol Suppliers
I get it from a local oil and fuel supplier. They supply gas stations and businesses with fuel and lubes. I just got some 2 weeks ago $3.22 gal it is considered of road fuel so no road tax on it. They don't ask what i am doing with it and I don't tell them it's for bio D since its not going to be used as fuel. I feel that's not so bad. But that tax issue is a whole different subject. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Dunn Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 7:41 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Methanol Suppliers Hi all, I need a better supply of methanol. My local supplier is charging $5.75/gallon. AND, I have to call ahead so they can re-package it. Can anyone point me to a better source in south central Pennsylvania? Or, I suppose, I'd be willing to have it shipped but, I'd prefer to buy as locally as possible. Thanks, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Stir Washing
From experience I would slow it down harbor freight tools sells a 110v speed reducer for routers I have used them for motors in my process pumps and drills. This will give you the ability to play with the speed for the best results. I have found if you beat the hell out of the mix you make mayonnaise that can take days to a week or more to separate. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tonomár András Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:45 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Stir Washing Hello Everyone, I am building my new 300 liter wash tank and have a 300W motor with 1300 rpm I want to connect it to a stirrer 160 mm in diameter ( 6 inch). Should I do it directly or reduce the rpm??? I have been stir washing for more than a year with a hand drill but I have no idea what rpm is it. I guess around 600 - 800. Any experience and suggestion would be appritiated. Reg. Andrew ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] 450 gal batch reactor
Try I dairy. Thing like that are used in milk production. I think. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Will Kelleher Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 12:28 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] 450 gal batch reactor Hey all, I'm looking for a stainless steel chemical reactor that can handle about 450 gallons of oil. Does anyone know where I can find something like this? Thanks, Will K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO damaging paint easy way to correct the problem
Yup it's hard to remove and it gets sticker as time goes on. I know. I have used the citrus cleaner and it cuts the WVO very well with no damage to the paint but be aware there will be no wax ether. Good luck: Derick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Wilson Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 3:51 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] WVO damaging paint easy way to correct the problem Hi, No matter how much cleaning I did after I spilled a little WVO on the car I ended up with a big, fat stain on the side of my car. I just had my car painted and it is in show room condition so I did not want a fat stain destroying the looks. I came up with a very simple solution. I took all the fridge magnets off of the fridge and a plastic garbage bag. I pushed the closed end of the garbage bag into the filler spout hatch and secured it there with fridge magnets. I secured the rest of the garbage bag to the side of the car with additional fridge magnets. Now if I spill any WVO none gets on the paint. Works great. Yours truly John Wilson *** Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve Goldens Ph-Fax (902)665-2386) Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm Pups: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm Politics:http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM . After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone. ^ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bioperformance scammers
Yes I used it in Dino diesel and had an increase of 2 mpg give or take .2 or .3 driving the same road at the same time of day and relatively the same weather over a course of 4 tanks of fuel my normal mpg without a dose was 22.2 mpg and with 24. But I tried it on bio with no gain or loss measured. And I told a friend at work about it he has a old Honda with almost 300,000 miles on it hi used a corona bottle as a delivery system he tells me his people think he is insane for poring beer in the tank. But he told me he also had a marked increase in mpg. Don't hold me to it but I think it was in the range of 4 or 5 mpg gain. I don't know if he is still doing it or not. F.Y.I. he says he gets 43 mpg normally. Derick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bob allen Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 2:16 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bioperformance scammers speaking of questionable value, has anybody got anything to report on the value of adding a pinch of acetone to your gasoline? a la http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg58042.html et al? AltEnergyNetwork wrote: Bioperformance scammers http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou060906_ac_gasadditive.728e1998.ht ml Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Earth_Rescue_International http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Earth_Rescue_International/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol
Sorry Bob my head is up ... in the clouds. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bob allen Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 5:41 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol actually, my name is bob (see signature below) Derick Giorchino wrote: Thanks for the response Keith. This is very good info for me. I do not wish to spend a lot of time trying to do something that is close to imposable or just impractical. When I could be out collecting U.V.O. or making bio d. Would you have any idea what Doug is speeking of earlier in this post? He makes it sound like ethanol is easily done. from sugar yes it is easy- I do it almost daily in my hummingbird feeder. But ethanol from cellulose is very difficult. I maybe reading into this though. Derick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bob allen Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 3:20 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol Derick, you are talking about cellolosic ethanol, that is ethanol made from cellulose, rather than from starch. This is the holy grail of ethanol production. Very small amounts of ethanol can be made from sulfuric acid digestion of cellulose, but the yield is abysmal and the cost high. My position is it is not worth the time, trouble, and expense. the problems are manifold. First is the fact that the lignin present, which binds the cellulose, is not easily separable from the cellulose,and hydrolysis of cellulose to free the sugars is much more difficult that that of starch, and finally the sugars released from cellulose fermentation are not easily fermentable with yeast. Big bucks have been spent trying to solve these problems since at least the 70's with little or no success. Simply, if it were easy, it would be happening everywhere, as the feedstock- cellulosic wastes-are abundant. Derick Giorchino wrote: No Keith am not confused. I do make biodiesel. I use methanol and until some one has a better way that's what I will use. I was asking about the production of ethanol to use in other family vehicles. Since they are gas engines. I read on J.T.F. way back when I was starting the venture of bio. That ethanol can be made at home using wood chips /paper and I think there may have been also a mention of dry grass and brush and breaking it down with sulfuric acid. But I would need to go back and read it over. My quarry was as to the amount of yield verses raw product used per liter /gal or what ever. Thanks Derick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 6:40 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol What are you people talking about? have you ever made any type of biofuel? Seems to me that you are confusing them all. Acid Base process and ethanol fuel? Methanol vs ethanol? It has sense in biodiesel production, but you are talking alcohol fuel for petroleum engines. Doug is being a bit confusing. He was talking about both ethanol fuel in gasoline engines and using ethanol to make biodiesel. Gasoline engines will run on 80% ethanol and 20% water (ie 160 proof) but to make ethyl esters biodiesel the ethanol must be dry, and Doug doesn't know how to make dry ethanol (absolute), he can't do better than 85% ( you should be able to get 95% by distillation). So Doug's question about ethanol vs methanol for making biodiesel doesn't make much sense to me either. I don't think Doug has made biodiesel, or he wouldn't ask anyway - ethanol biodiesel is difficult to make, not for novices, not even when the ethanol is dry, methanol biodiesel is the way to start. I don't think we know of any novices who've succeeded with ethyl esters biodiesel. I don't know how Doug was planning to make methanol, there's no small-scale backyard way of producing methanol. He seems to think you can make it by treating sawdust with concentrated acid, but that makes ethanol, not methanol. I also don't understand the reference to the acid-base process for producing ethanol, the acid-base process at JtF produces biodiesel, not ethanol. Oh well. Has nobody yet discovered whether the castor oil method for producing absolute ethanol works or not? I've been after a source of 20 litres of castor oil here in Japan but I haven't found it yet. The method is here: Separating Ethanol From Water Via Differential Miscibility -- using castor oil http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/eth_separate.html#castoil Best Keith Does not make too much sense. Andrew - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Derick Giorchino To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol
No Keith am not confused. I do make biodiesel. I use methanol and until some one has a better way that's what I will use. I was asking about the production of ethanol to use in other family vehicles. Since they are gas engines. I read on J.T.F. way back when I was starting the venture of bio. That ethanol can be made at home using wood chips /paper and I think there may have been also a mention of dry grass and brush and breaking it down with sulfuric acid. But I would need to go back and read it over. My quarry was as to the amount of yield verses raw product used per liter /gal or what ever. Thanks Derick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 6:40 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol What are you people talking about? have you ever made any type of biofuel? Seems to me that you are confusing them all. Acid Base process and ethanol fuel? Methanol vs ethanol? It has sense in biodiesel production, but you are talking alcohol fuel for petroleum engines. Doug is being a bit confusing. He was talking about both ethanol fuel in gasoline engines and using ethanol to make biodiesel. Gasoline engines will run on 80% ethanol and 20% water (ie 160 proof) but to make ethyl esters biodiesel the ethanol must be dry, and Doug doesn't know how to make dry ethanol (absolute), he can't do better than 85% ( you should be able to get 95% by distillation). So Doug's question about ethanol vs methanol for making biodiesel doesn't make much sense to me either. I don't think Doug has made biodiesel, or he wouldn't ask anyway - ethanol biodiesel is difficult to make, not for novices, not even when the ethanol is dry, methanol biodiesel is the way to start. I don't think we know of any novices who've succeeded with ethyl esters biodiesel. I don't know how Doug was planning to make methanol, there's no small-scale backyard way of producing methanol. He seems to think you can make it by treating sawdust with concentrated acid, but that makes ethanol, not methanol. I also don't understand the reference to the acid-base process for producing ethanol, the acid-base process at JtF produces biodiesel, not ethanol. Oh well. Has nobody yet discovered whether the castor oil method for producing absolute ethanol works or not? I've been after a source of 20 litres of castor oil here in Japan but I haven't found it yet. The method is here: Separating Ethanol From Water Via Differential Miscibility -- using castor oil http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/eth_separate.html#castoil Best Keith Does not make too much sense. Andrew - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Derick Giorchino To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 1:01 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol Hi Doug I am interested in the ethanol production you are using. What is it can you point me in the right direction? Is it the acid base as is explained at J.T.F.? As for the carb problems maybe a marine carb is more tolerant of the alcohol fuel if not there are places that could chrome or anodize the carb bowls for a price you would need to re thread all the holes. Or maybe powder coating would work. Good luck Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of lres1 Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:03 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol Would like to know the advantages if any of using Methanol instead of Ethanol in making bio-diesel. It is very easy to make Ethanol with down to 15% water. Seems kinda silly to make Ethanol and Methanol if Ethanol will do all. Have now got a MPEFI Jeep running on 80% Ethanol and 20% water as a straight injection. Have a few bugs to work out but total conversion cost is less than US$20.00. To convert back to RUG is a flick of a switch on the dash. This makes more sense now to use the Ethanol instead of making Methanol for bio-diesel production as I already make the ethanol and it can replace RUG in a MPEFI engine or standard carb engine. I still have no replies on how to lacquer or coat an alloy carburetor to stop reactions with the Ethanol. At present The system is fully drained and blown with compressed air to clear out all water and Ethanol. Would be kinda nice to be able to shut the engines off and just walk away and not have the cleaning time. I do not want to get rid of the water in my Ethanol replacement for RUG as it gives much more power than RUG at 80 to 85% Ethanol and 15 to 20% water mix. The plasticized fuel tanks and lines can handle it all the carbs can not. My next step is to try and run 502 C.I. V8 engines and 351 modified engines and 350 C.I. engines with 4 barrel hollies on Ethanol but need to clear up the carb reaction problems with the alloys involved
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol
Thanks for the response Keith. This is very good info for me. I do not wish to spend a lot of time trying to do something that is close to imposable or just impractical. When I could be out collecting U.V.O. or making bio d. Would you have any idea what Doug is speeking of earlier in this post? He makes it sound like ethanol is easily done. I maybe reading into this though. Derick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bob allen Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 3:20 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol Derick, you are talking about cellolosic ethanol, that is ethanol made from cellulose, rather than from starch. This is the holy grail of ethanol production. Very small amounts of ethanol can be made from sulfuric acid digestion of cellulose, but the yield is abysmal and the cost high. My position is it is not worth the time, trouble, and expense. the problems are manifold. First is the fact that the lignin present, which binds the cellulose, is not easily separable from the cellulose,and hydrolysis of cellulose to free the sugars is much more difficult that that of starch, and finally the sugars released from cellulose fermentation are not easily fermentable with yeast. Big bucks have been spent trying to solve these problems since at least the 70's with little or no success. Simply, if it were easy, it would be happening everywhere, as the feedstock- cellulosic wastes-are abundant. Derick Giorchino wrote: No Keith am not confused. I do make biodiesel. I use methanol and until some one has a better way that's what I will use. I was asking about the production of ethanol to use in other family vehicles. Since they are gas engines. I read on J.T.F. way back when I was starting the venture of bio. That ethanol can be made at home using wood chips /paper and I think there may have been also a mention of dry grass and brush and breaking it down with sulfuric acid. But I would need to go back and read it over. My quarry was as to the amount of yield verses raw product used per liter /gal or what ever. Thanks Derick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 6:40 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol What are you people talking about? have you ever made any type of biofuel? Seems to me that you are confusing them all. Acid Base process and ethanol fuel? Methanol vs ethanol? It has sense in biodiesel production, but you are talking alcohol fuel for petroleum engines. Doug is being a bit confusing. He was talking about both ethanol fuel in gasoline engines and using ethanol to make biodiesel. Gasoline engines will run on 80% ethanol and 20% water (ie 160 proof) but to make ethyl esters biodiesel the ethanol must be dry, and Doug doesn't know how to make dry ethanol (absolute), he can't do better than 85% ( you should be able to get 95% by distillation). So Doug's question about ethanol vs methanol for making biodiesel doesn't make much sense to me either. I don't think Doug has made biodiesel, or he wouldn't ask anyway - ethanol biodiesel is difficult to make, not for novices, not even when the ethanol is dry, methanol biodiesel is the way to start. I don't think we know of any novices who've succeeded with ethyl esters biodiesel. I don't know how Doug was planning to make methanol, there's no small-scale backyard way of producing methanol. He seems to think you can make it by treating sawdust with concentrated acid, but that makes ethanol, not methanol. I also don't understand the reference to the acid-base process for producing ethanol, the acid-base process at JtF produces biodiesel, not ethanol. Oh well. Has nobody yet discovered whether the castor oil method for producing absolute ethanol works or not? I've been after a source of 20 litres of castor oil here in Japan but I haven't found it yet. The method is here: Separating Ethanol From Water Via Differential Miscibility -- using castor oil http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/eth_separate.html#castoil Best Keith Does not make too much sense. Andrew - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Derick Giorchino To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 1:01 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol Hi Doug I am interested in the ethanol production you are using. What is it can you point me in the right direction? Is it the acid base as is explained at J.T.F.? As for the carb problems maybe a marine carb is more tolerant of the alcohol fuel if not there are places that could chrome or anodize the carb bowls for a price you would need to re thread all the holes. Or maybe powder coating would work. Good luck
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol
Hi Doug I am interested in the ethanol production you are using. What is it can you point me in the right direction? Is it the acid base as is explained at J.T.F.? As for the carb problems maybe a marine carb is more tolerant of the alcohol fuel if not there are places that could chrome or anodize the carb bowls for a price you would need to re thread all the holes. Or maybe powder coating would work. Good luck Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of lres1 Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:03 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Ethanol V's Methanol Would like to know the advantages if any of using Methanol instead of Ethanol in making bio-diesel. It is very easy to make Ethanol with down to 15% water. Seems kinda silly to make Ethanol and Methanol if Ethanol will do all. Have now got a MPEFI Jeep running on 80% Ethanol and 20% water as a straight injection. Have a few bugs to work out but total conversion cost is less than US$20.00. To convert back to RUG is a flick of a switch on the dash. This makes more sense now to use the Ethanol instead of making Methanol for bio-diesel production as I already make the ethanol and it can replace RUG in a MPEFI engine or standard carb engine. I still have no replies on how to lacquer or coat an alloy carburetor to stop reactions with the Ethanol. At present The system is fully drained and blown with compressed air to clear out all water and Ethanol. Would be kinda nice to be able to shut the engines off and just walk away and not have the cleaning time. I do not want to get rid of the water in my Ethanol replacement for RUG as it gives much more power than RUG at 80 to 85% Ethanol and 15 to 20% water mix. The plasticized fuel tanks and lines can handle it all the carbs can not. My next step is to try and run 502 C.I.V8 engines and 351 modified engines and 350 C.I. engineswith 4 barrel hollies on Ethanol but need to clear up the carb reaction problems with the alloys involved. Would like to know how to get to 0.5% water for bio-diesel processing. Same question as JJJN I guess Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil
I have found if you use a 2 liter bottle for the test batch and put a sipping nipple as found on sports bottles turn the test batch bottle upside down let it settle for the 12 to 24 hours the glycerin will drain out into a jar very well. I don't stop at thee end of the glycerin. I get a few ounces of bio then stop. I have never had a failed test batch this way at least not for glycerin being in the mix. Good luck Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rafal Szczesniak Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 12:22 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil On Mon, Aug 21, 2006 at 10:08:58AM -0400, Thomas Kelly wrote: Rafal, 1 - 2L test batches w. virgin oil . Good 99% pure KOH V. Good (If you are concerned about the purity and have NaOH of known purity you can test the KOH) I know that. However, KOH that I've bought doesn't look perfectly fresh ie. it is not completely translucent, as my NaOH was a couple of months ago. Now, I have both of them slightly calcinated which shows up as a trace of dust (really, just a little bit) on the bottom of a bottle I use to mix the methoxide solution. Temp and agitation also sound good. If there is water in the methanol you will make more soap (emulsion) and there will be less methanol --- incomplete reaction (emulsion). No, the methanol is also very pure - the same supplier. I started with pure and a bit expensive chemicals, to gain more experience and avoid troubles that might be caused by urity. As I understand it, you have done test batches w virgin oil and have gotten unsatisfactory results emulsions upon washing. You are concerned about incomplete reactions. That's right. Question #1: Are you careful to exclude the glycerine byproduct from the wash? Last time I settled the mixture of ester and glycerine byproduct for 24 hours and got nice separation. I carefully removed glycerine from the bottom (similar construction to the test processor on JtF pages) _and_ I settled the ester with just a bit of byproduct on the bottom (difficult to remove completely) for the next 12 hours. Then I syphoned off a 200 ml sample for test using elastic pipe, from the middle of the container. Nice, clean and pale yellow product. My only concern is that it's not transparent, but rather cloudy - likely due to incomplete reaction. Question #2: The oil titrated at 0.925 ml of .99KOH.. This is significant. Have you run a batch with an additional .9 - 1.0 g KOH/L you got from titration? Not yet - that's why I'm asking for your opinion. After the mails I've received I'm going to try it. I tried it once, with NaOH, but I didn't add such a small amount (divided by 1.4), but rather 20% more. I was afraid of the lye calcination, so I tried to add more, according to what I read. That was probably too much - no luck and washing problems. 3.5g 100%NaOH/L of oil = 4.9 g 100%KOH/L of oil Of course, I realise that. Add 0.9 - 1.0 g of the KOH (from titration) you would be using 5.8 - 5.9 g of KOH/L of oil. This additional .9 -1.0 g represents an increase of 18 - 20% over the amount used for virgin oil w/o FFAs. When you consider that your KOH may be less than 99% pure, the amount needed would be even higher. This could very well be the cause of the incomplete reaction. Treat the virgin oil as if it was WVO. Include your titration results in the amount of KOH to be added and run a batch exactly as you have before. Let us know how it worked out and we'll proceed from there. Surely I will. Of course you could go out and buy some high quality veg oil that titrates zero, but then we would not get the answer to the puzzle. Exactly. Besides, led by curiousity, I tried to titrate a better oil I had. It was also pure rapeseed oil, just the quality was better. Titration result was .750ml or so. I wonder, what would be the result when a really fine quality oil was tested (sunflower perhaps)... -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps.
I was told of the same thing by a parts guy that has a diesel truck and his farther was in Idaho last week and saw the same thing there. As I have read Montana has mandated that all diesel must contain 10% bio to me that is a good thing since sulfur is going away in dino fuel. You know that the o.e arent going to warranty injection pumps when they fail for lack of lube. So the bio is a way to help your self from a major $ set back. But I run b 100 as much as I can. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk McLoren Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 1:53 PM To: biofuel Subject: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps. A friend phoned from Montana and said all the diesel pumps there have a sticker that the fuel in that pump is not to be used in 2007 diesel trucks. Has anyone seen these stickers in their state? Kirk Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Farmer in France arrested for driving vegetable-poweredtruck
Good for him. I hope the law looses there case against him. Maybe we as people of the world should get together in groups and buy the land as groups so all the roads are owned by the land owners as is done here in the states in some places as private planed communities. This will take time but the absurd thing about this is we the people of the world have purchased the roads many times over yet we are held to a higher standard than an owner. Why? Is it that we are not doing what big brother tells us to do? We are not lining there pockets. I think it is time to show big brother that we have grown up and dont need our hands held at every turn. Nor slapped. Some day little brother will stand up if there is not some understanding of what we need or want. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 6:07 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Farmer in France arrested for driving vegetable-poweredtruck Forwarding from another source. You may need a subscription to see the full article via the URL. Darryl === http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article1214520.ece Friday, August 4th, 2006 John Lichfield in Paris A French farmer faces prosecution for driving on public roads in a vegetable-powered truck. Olivier Lainé, a cereals farmer based near Rouen in Normandy, believes he will go down in history, not as a criminal, or tax-evader, but a revolutionary. M. Lainé, 49, was arrested near his farm by French customs officers. He faces prosecution for driving a vehicle powered by an unauthorised fuel - namely pure vegetable oil, made from colza, or rape seed, grown on his own farm. An EU directive passed last year instructs member states to encourage the use of pure vegetable oil as a form of fuel for diesel-powered vehicles. Paris has failed so far to translate the directive into law. They say that I am breaking the law. I say that they are breaking European law, M. Lainé said. We will see who is right. What I am doing will be seen as the beginning of a revolution. The world is short of fossil fuels. It has a surplus of agricultural produce. Using pure vegetable oil as a fuel can make a small contribution to solving both problems. M. Lainé is spokesman within the département of Seine-Maritime for the militant small farmers union, the Confédération Pay-sanne. The union accused the French government yesterday of hypocrisy. Paris talks of making a contribution to a cleaner environment, the union said, but blocks local initiatives to use pure vegetable oil. The use of vegetable oil as fuel is authorised for vehicles while operating on a farm. It is illegal to drive vegetable-powered vehicles on public roads because no tax has been paid on the fuel. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] safe temperature
DOES THE PROCESSED BIO GET JELLY LIKE WHEN COOL? IF SO I HAVE FOUND THAT THE METHOXIDE WAS TOO WEAK. Try taking 1/2 liter samples and do tests by adding 1/2 gram pre mix met oxide at a time in a pet bottle until you get separation after getting separation keep adding 1/2 gram mixes keep track of the reading as you go and as soon as there is a thin layer on the top of the glycerin stop and back up 1/2 gram this is the amount you need for what you have in the reactor. Although this is only a way so save what you have now in the reactor. Keith told me accurate measure I used standard off the shelf measuring cups and postage scales in the beginning , you have no idea how far off they were. I have invested in laboratory measures and digital scale except and apart from a blond moment here and there all the processing I have done in the last year have been good. Good luck Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rafal Szczesniak Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 10:14 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] safe temperature On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 01:17:02PM +0900, Keith Addison wrote: Hi Rafal What is max temperature you would consider safe for the process ? I know methanol boils at 64.7 degC, but it starts evaporating before reaching this point. Does that mean the temperature higher than 55 degC kept for, say half a minute, causes that a big part of methanol goes away ? Goes where? If it's a closed processor (as it should be) the methanol vapours won't go very far, most or all of it will condense on the underside of the lid and drop back in again. Well, I've seen some traces of condensation on the walls (it's a test reactor), but it didn't seem to drop back. Have a look at what it says about it here: The 'Deepthort 100B' Batch Reactor http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html Thanks, Keith. I've missed this description, though I've read nearly everything at JtF at least a couple of times. I think I'm going to try out adding methoxide in 2-3 phases. I have a feeling that in the end - the hardest part - there's not enough exess methanol. Last time I was careful about the temperature, about measuring the lye and methanol, but still the process doesn't reach completion. Biodiesel phase isn't clear (though the colour is quite right) nor does it separate quickly in the wash test. There's still something wrong... -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Using biodiesel in newer truck-cars
I have a 04 dodge with a Cummins and have been running it on b100 for 1 ½ years after researching this to death. And finding nothing on bio in late models Cummins talks in circles about bio saying the jury is still out. Although they dont say not to use it they dont say its o.k. so I am doing my own research all is good with about 26000 miles in bio only. Good luck Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Barton Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 5:15 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Using biodiesel in newer truck-cars Hello to all I'm new to all of this and have read and studied the makeing of biodiesel and have planed out a plane to produce it as well But befor diving into to deep of water I have not found much info about runing home made biodiesel in newer engines. I have a 2005 chevy diesel truck with the 6.6lly engine in it. Any links on the net or info about problems that I might have running biodiesel that I have made myself in a newer computer controled diesels would be nice. Thanks for the help. Frist post to the list, Steve ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice
Sorry I am so tardy. Yup with no measurable crap I also do the reprocessing technique form time to time with no added glycerol. But I do let the mix set for a minimum of 24 to 36 hours. I have found that after draining off the glycerol under 24 hours I let it sit for a few more hours and low and behold there is more glycerol. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 6:00 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice Hi Derick; Just out of curiosity do you do the methanol test after you make your fuel and if so how are your reaction percentages? What is your process temperature and how long do you react? Joe Derick Giorchino wrote: No problem I have been making 120 liter batches for 2 years with not one leek or problem. Note I drain the pump after use. Good luck. Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:28 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice Hi Mike; I can only speak from my own experience and I haven't used that combination but I have read a fer anecdotes. Sorry but I think you should not get too excited about 40 gallons. You may find that you can only fill that tank to the 25 gallon point with that size plumbing and pump. You would not be the first one to discover this! There is no fine print telling you this by the people selling kits with a 40 gallon tank and clear pump. But then again if you don't do quality tests you would never know. Joe Mike Weaver wrote: Any advice on 40 gallon batches and a clearwater pump? We haven't used this latest reactor yet - will it have enought power to mix 40 gallons? -Mike Joe Street wrote: Hey Tom; My guess on this is it is not so much the pump but the size of the plumbing. I noticed that one particular pump with the same size motor and impeller was offered with 1 or 3/4 inlet and the throughput was almost the same as a smaller pump with standard 3/4 inlet unless you ordered it with the 1 I then took a look at a whoile bunch of pump curves and what you find is that you won't get beyond about 10-15 GPM with any size motor or pump unless you go larger than 3/4 on the pump inlet. The 90 litre wall I think is related to the 3/4 tank connections on the hot water tanks we all like using not the pump per se but it amounts to the same difference in the end. I believe it is a waste of time and money buying a larger tank than about 100 litres since as most people find out you can't get a good reaction on about more than 90 litres of oil anyways. Joe Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, The impeller in the clearwater pump is metal. Plastic impellers will eventually fail in pumps used to agitate the reaction. My experience w. the clearwater pump is that it will handle up to 90L (~ 24 gal) batches. Above that, even after three hours reaction time, I have gotten incomplete reactions. Congratulations on your success scaling up. Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Pump choice Hi All Thanks to all who have advised me this last few months, I am now a biofueller! 105l batches, good product. Unfortunately, after 10 good batches, my pump has started spraying out of the back of the impeller housing. So I took it apart and the impeller has broken up and the housing has been eaten through at the back, around the mechanical seal. It was 30 years old or so, free and a plastic spa pump, so I'm not too distressed, but I obviously don't want it happening again. I notice that the clearwater pump used by JtF is made of cast iron, so should my next pump be made of metal? Also, is the impeller in the clearwater pump plastic? As I know you can get some with stainless steel blades, I wonder my impeller break-up was due to age or chemicals. Thanks Charles List -- -- This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. www.schoolzone.net.nz This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone, but is not guaranteed to be virus-free. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.o r g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http
Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice
No problem I have been making 120 liter batches for 2 years with not one leek or problem. Note I drain the pump after use. Good luck. Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:28 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice Hi Mike; I can only speak from my own experience and I haven't used that combination but I have read a fer anecdotes. Sorry but I think you should not get too excited about 40 gallons. You may find that you can only fill that tank to the 25 gallon point with that size plumbing and pump. You would not be the first one to discover this! There is no fine print telling you this by the people selling kits with a 40 gallon tank and clear pump. But then again if you don't do quality tests you would never know. Joe Mike Weaver wrote: Any advice on 40 gallon batches and a clearwater pump? We haven't used this latest reactor yet - will it have enought power to mix 40 gallons? -Mike Joe Street wrote: Hey Tom; My guess on this is it is not so much the pump but the size of the plumbing. I noticed that one particular pump with the same size motor and impeller was offered with 1 or 3/4 inlet and the throughput was almost the same as a smaller pump with standard 3/4 inlet unless you ordered it with the 1 I then took a look at a whoile bunch of pump curves and what you find is that you won't get beyond about 10-15 GPM with any size motor or pump unless you go larger than 3/4 on the pump inlet. The 90 litre wall I think is related to the 3/4 tank connections on the hot water tanks we all like using not the pump per se but it amounts to the same difference in the end. I believe it is a waste of time and money buying a larger tank than about 100 litres since as most people find out you can't get a good reaction on about more than 90 litres of oil anyways. Joe Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, The impeller in the clearwater pump is metal. Plastic impellers will eventually fail in pumps used to agitate the reaction. My experience w. the clearwater pump is that it will handle up to 90L (~ 24 gal) batches. Above that, even after three hours reaction time, I have gotten incomplete reactions. Congratulations on your success scaling up. Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Pump choice Hi All Thanks to all who have advised me this last few months, I am now a biofueller! 105l batches, good product. Unfortunately, after 10 good batches, my pump has started spraying out of the back of the impeller housing. So I took it apart and the impeller has broken up and the housing has been eaten through at the back, around the mechanical seal. It was 30 years old or so, free and a plastic spa pump, so I'm not too distressed, but I obviously don't want it happening again. I notice that the clearwater pump used by JtF is made of cast iron, so should my next pump be made of metal? Also, is the impeller in the clearwater pump plastic? As I know you can get some with stainless steel blades, I wonder my impeller break-up was due to age or chemicals. Thanks Charles List -- -- This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. www.schoolzone.net.nz This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone, but is not guaranteed to be virus-free. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine
My experience has been like this . I started in late summer to try to separate the cocktail. As with the wvo I used small test batches. The separation took much longer than I would have thought. But I did get separation. The batches I did seemed to get better with time but the temp was high 95 deg F and low 85 deg F. Time span 24 36 hrs. I then tried a larger batch 5 gal late fall or early winter using the same amount of acid. And it sat there for weeks with little change if any. Since we had some warm days in early Feb the change is clear to see now. Good luck Derick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Appal Energy Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:34 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine Thomas, If you use one of those 1,000,000 candlepower flashlights and shine it through the HDPE container, you should be able to see the separation easily enough as well as the initial curdling.. As for putting the potassium phosphate on the compost pile? The better method would be to dissolve it in water and apply it wet on the garden, not much different than one would apply Miracle Gro or something similar. The dissolving method also allows any trapped FFAs in the precipitate layer to float up, which allows you to not put any oils back into the soil. I don't know the application rate for potassium phosphate, although I've asked a half-dozen people. We've got a waste water treatment specialist working with the effluent from washing along with the glycerol and potassium phosphate to determine how much can be distrubuted over soils and not create an accumulation/burn problem. When we get that isolated we'll post it. Todd Swearingen Thomas Kelly wrote: Todd, I appreciate your response. I think you hit the nail on the head when you 1. suggested that I added too much acid 2. questioned how long I waited I added 1L 85%H3PO4 to each of 12 cubies. The next morning I did not see separation, nor did I see the mineral precip on the bottom. I then added more acid to two of the cubies, got separation, but also that middle layer of very fine salt (much too much acid). I should have waited longer. The other 10 cubies (36 hours later) all have a sand-like precipitate on the bottom. Separation of Glycerine and FFA is not apparent. I'm an idiot! You cannot perceive the separation within the cubie. I stirred the content of two of the cubies and removed samples. They are in glass jars on the windowsill. Within minutes separation became noticable. You also wrote: You should see a near instantaneous curdling, which after some additional mixing gets broken down to sand like granules. The top layer of FFAs should be completely separated within an hour or two, giving the appearance of only two layers. Within a few hours the glycerol layer should start to become apparent. But the settling may not be largely complete for a dozen hours. I am using a paint stirrer on a drill to mix the acid w. the Glycerine cocktail for about a minute. I don't notice any change while mixing. Should I continue to mix until I see a change? Thanks for your suggestion re: saving the excess acid. I still have plenty of Glycerine coproduct (another 12 cubies) and will experiment. With the still finally completed, I'm a bit anxious to try to recover the methanol. Robert and Keith have brought the joy back to gardening ... it somehow got distorted into work last year. I'm anxious to spray the potassium phosphate on the new compost pile I'm building. Patience is indeed a virtue at this point. Thanks again, Tom - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine Thomas, You shouldn't need but between 1.5 and 1.75 gallons of 85% phosphoric for every 50 gallons of glyc cocktail that is derived from 1.5 gram titrated oil. That would work out to be approximately 0.135 to 0.157 gallons per cube, or 510 to 595 mililiters per cube. I guess the question is how long are you allowing for the settling/phase-splitting process to occur and what is the physical appearance of the process as you mix? You should see a near instantaneous curdling, which after some additional mixing gets broken down to sand like granules. The top layer of FFAs should be completely separated within an hour or two, giving the appearance of only two layers. Within a few hours the glycerol layer should start to become apparent. But the settling may not be largely complete for a dozen hours. The general problem with FFA recovery is over-acidification. This can create a strata between the oil and glycerol/methanol layer that contains fines of the salt that won't precipitate out. We've toyed with that strata when it occasionally appears, trying
Re: [Biofuel] Bio diesel newbie q - How do I accurately measure 100+ liters of oil?
This is what I did I use a 55 gal drum with a clamp on lid has worked well for 8 to 10 120 liter batches. I got a 4 liter measuring cup from a chemical supplier and used water 2 liters at a time 2 get to the 120 liter measure. Using a tape measure measured from the bottom of the drum to the liquid level. Just fill to the same measure each time. = 120 liters. This works since the drum is open. For different closed containers or containers that would be hard or imposable to use a tape measure use a liquid level sight gauge and add accurately pre measured amounts mark the sight gauge at levels that work for you. Good luck Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 11:34 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio diesel newbie q - How do I accurately measure 100+ litres of oil? Hello Nigel I suspect this is a complete newbie question - but being a newbie - I feel entitled to ask. Newbies aren't entitled to anything special that other members aren't also entitled to. What you're obliged to do however is to try to avoid asking newbie questions that have been asked and answered many times already, unless you've something to add. List resources Please make use of the resources listed at the Biofuel list home page: http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Especially the searchable list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ The archives contains more than 50,000 messages over nearly five years. The question you want to ask or the topic you're interested in has probably already been covered. That's no reason not to ask it again, but if you know what's gone before you'll ask a better question and get better answers. See: List rules http://snipurl.com/mx7r Just so you know. Accuracy and scale have certainly been discussed before, but never mind. ok - picture this - I've been out and done the decent thing - found myself a lot of Waste Veggie Oil that I want to convert to Bio Diesel.. I do the titration, and get the exact amount of NzOH to add to a litre... and now I need to multiply that by the amount of oil I have. I expect to have approximately 100l... but how do I know... accurately? How accurate do I need to be in order to get a good result? How accurate have you needed to be in order to get good results with one-litre test batches? What tolerances have you been working to with your one-litre tests with WVO? You can use the same tolerances or better with 100 litres. Eg, you should have been using scales accurate to 0.1 grams or better to measure the lye for 1 litre of oil. For 100 litres of oil, multiply that by 100 and you get a margin of error of 10 grams. If your oil titrates at say 2.5 ml 0.1% NaOH solution that will total 600 grams for 100 litres, 10 grams either way is a 3.3% margin. You should be able to improve on that. I have thought of setting up a simple balance beam, with a weight on one side the exactly equals 100l of oil, + the drum weight. I then add or tap off oil until I hit the exact 100l mark. There must be other/better/standard ways of doing it though? Volume seems the more obvious measure. Heat one litre of the oil to processing temperature and measure it again so you can adjust for the volume increase for measuring oil at room-temperature. Graduate the processor tank in convenient increments with marks you can see easily, or do that to the holding tank or pre-heating tank if you have one. Or use a bucket - add 10 measures of one litre from an accurate measuring flask and mark it as you go, then fill the processor in 10-litre batches. Do it carefully and you'll be fine. It's much simpler if you always make standard-sized batches. Um, have you made any successful test batches yet? Three weeks ago you were still sourcing chemicals. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Tips and answers very welcome! Cheers Nigel ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] first time confusion
It seems you are getting a reaction and it seems there is separation. But there is a fine line as to not complete enough, complete or 2 complete. If you over dose the oil with NHO there will be soap. I know this very well I have done it many times. If you don't have very accurate measures you will need to increase the NHO 1/2 GR at a time until you make soap/ thick almost solid. Then back up 1/2 GR at a time until you just have a good separation. I assume you are draining the glycerin off before you do the wash? Then use the quality test on JTF. I must say when I started doing this I had a heck of a time with virgin oil = not much to look at for change. Try to get some samples of used oil for testing; you will see the separation much better. I know JTF says start with virgin oil but I found it easier with used oil. As for the emulsion depending on the temp you are working in hot water works best and emulation seem to be lessened. Separation is faster. The hotter the water the faster the separation. Good luck .Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of fox mulder Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 1:09 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] first time confusion --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i suppose i was reluctant to give much detail on the effects i am having with my first batches since i am unsure of the quality of my methanol and lye and was waiting on reliable higher quality material to arrive before i get really confused. however my third batch gave me a slightly cloudy amber BD with a thick brown glycerin on the bottom but gave me a mayonaise-like emulsion with wash test that lasted for 2 days until i dumped it. out of curiosity i tried 250 ml of HEET, 3.5g lye to 1 liter of virgin vegetable oil and got a cloudy amber BD with a hard, peach colored glycerin and a wash test gave me the same emulsion. i keep the temperature between 55-60 deg Celsius and i blend for 1 hour, settle for 24 hours. i want to blame the quality of my lye and methanol until i get the good stuff to try again, but i will check to dry the oil first next time since i ASSUMED virgin oil to be dry. thank you very much. Richard Allison ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ 20 min. blending if cloudy-soap production add some salt to precipitate the soap wash several times good luck fox ___ Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now. http://www.yahoo.co.uk/blackberry ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] first time confusion
I use red devil in all my bio production with no problems. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:54 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] first time confusion Hi R. I can't comment on the HEET as I haven't used it but you haven't given us anything about the nature of the problem other than saying not getting a good reaction. It's probably safe to assume that if it is on the site and people have used it, it works. It's still possible your lye is old and carbonated or your oil is not dry or a few other things are not right. As noted in a recent post the most important variables are good mixing, proper temperature, precision with measures. You haven't said if your reactions are not going far enough or if you are having problems with soaps?? There is lots of good info on troubleshooting on J2F and in the archives though and if you provide mere details list members can advise what to try. I have HEET in the garage but never used it I buy my methanol at a fuel supplyer at about $2.30 a gal. Make sure the oil is dry / no water heat it to 120 deg f 125 and keep it there during the mixing. What is happening when you process? Explain more and we could help more . Derick Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I am processing my first test batches of biodiesel, I have problems finding answers to the following questions. Can anyone throw me a bone here? 1. I am using Lewis red devil lye. The jar says it is 100% lye and it contains sodium hydroxide, but I cannot find an MSDS or anyone at the company that will tell me how pure the lye is. Does anybody know if this stuff is good enough? 2. I am using HEET brand fuel line dryer as suggested on the JTF website. It says it contains methyl alcohol but, again, i cannot get an indication of how much. I am concerned that the formula may have changed in recent years that may make HEET unsuitable for biodisel processing. I finally found a good source for reliable 99% pure methanol but i am curious if anybody knows if HEET is still good? I ask these questions because after my 5th attempt at processing I am not getting a good reaction. If my materials are not up to snuff then perhaps the website may want to mention something, such as not using HEET or lewis red devil lye, so that other beginners wont waste their time. Thank you very much. R. Allison ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] stuck in wash cycle
Try to heat the mix or use hot water for the wash. I had some problems and ended up using some vinegar to separate the emulsion. Good luck. Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kenji James Fuse Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:01 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] stuck in wash cycle So I have a 60 litre batch in my wash tank that's not doing too well. New source of not-so-good-quality used oil; didn't do a titration (doh!); reacted well (two-stage base-base); didn't do a wash test (double doh!). The first wash produced a really milky wash water, and the fuel was ever-so-emulsified. I went ahead and did a second wash, hoping for the best. It's still ever-so-emulsified (yellowish-orange, cloudy, with a few wisps of what seems like emulsion). I think it will settle in the next few days, but... I'm out of fuel and I don't want to go to the service station. So a couple of questions: I'm thinking of dumping some good-quality, filtered wvo in my tank, which has about 15-20 litres of washed biodiesel in it. I'm worried about washed biodiesel reacting with the straight veggie. Any thoughts? THe biodiesel was pH 7 (litmus paper), and washed four times, specific gravity 0.880, really clear. I never thought about what happens mixing ASTM biodiesel or near-ASTm bioD with veggie before. Any feedback greatly appreciated.\ Kenji Fuse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] diesel pump for wvo
Hi I think the lift pump you speak of will work but the volume you can pump is very small per stroke. You could be there for 40 min per gal on the other hand you will be getting a good work out. I have been experimenting with shop vac's this is a fast way to suck almost anything. 55 gal drum 2 bung attach vac there. 3/4 fitting w/1 hose Walla transfer 55 gat in a few min depending on the viscosity. Good luck Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michele Stephenson Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 12:47 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] diesel pump for wvo i have an extra lift pump from my cummins and want to use it to pump out veggie oil from the tanks behind the rest. my questions are: the pump is a carter. will it work w/ wvo? if so, should i take the screen out or leave it in? my goal is to drive up and deposit the hose at the respective ends and plug the pump into the the power outlet. thanks in advance. i have learned more than i ever hoped from this forum. mstephenson '78 vw rabbit diesel n/a - soon to be veggie '99 dodge diesel - soon to be B-X ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Termites, global warming
Maybe someone should tell Gorge W this it seems simple if we could just hook up hoses to the rear ends of all the cattle we gas could power our electrical generators. This would be much better than going back to the future with nuc power. Just a sarcastic thought. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 10:13 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Termites, global warming Joe Street wrote: Well there may be something to this. It may not be the main source of greenhouse gas but IIRC methane is 6 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2 and there are a lot of cows being grown to serve the north american obsession with beef. And they do fart a hell of a lot! Consider also that the lion's share of oxygen comes not from trees as many a tree hugger has suggested but from algae in the sea. Tiny bubbles. Well I have heard that more methane is released by termites than any other single source. Is this information debunkable? I'd like to know. I think the actual figure is that methane is ~24 times more effective as a greenhouse gas than CO2. For real information on global warming and climate change, move on over to http://www.realclimate.org. That's a site run by actual climate scientists, and there is no doubt in their minds about mankinds changes to the environment. As for termites, you can color me skeptical. http://www.epa.gov/methane/sources.html lists methane from livestock (see enteric fermentation) as about 20% of US methane emissions from human related sources, following landfills and natural gas systems. http://www.brightsurf.com/news/oct_02/AGU_news_100902.html certainly makes it sound like the majority of methane released (60%) to the atmosphere is related to human activity. Google doesn't seem to have much on termites, methane, and global warming in the first few pages of results, that would indicate termites are a significant source. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Jan's Methanol test
Hi Joe as I read this it seems that you are using 4 to 4.5 gal of methanol per 20 gal of oil. Is that right ? I use 20% and with good titration have not had a problem yet I think I will try to reduce it bit by bit so the usage can be reduced and washing maybe a little easier. Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Kelly Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 8:01 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Jan's Methanol test Joe, I've taken a while to respond toyour question becauseI have been tweaking my process. Ialso produced what seemed to be good BD, but invariably a very small residue would remain undissolved in the methanol. I wasn't sure that it was possible to make BD that passed the test. -I reduced my volume of oil to 20 gal (76L).(Iuse a 1 clearwater pumpfor agitation). -Raised the temp to 150F (Ina sealed water heater w. vented pressure relief valve.) -Increased the reaction time to 2.5 hrs. -Increased methanol from 4 to 4.5 gal I also use oil that is dry and consistently gives titrations of 1 - 1.2 g/L With all of this I finally produced BD that passedJan's Methanol Test. I havesince made a few adjustments in the interest of energy, time,and $. 1. (Based on a response by Bob Allen) I add the methoxide when temp is about 130F. Pump and heater continue to operate until temp is 150F (about 1 hour). I then turn off heater andallow the pump to run for another 1.5 hours. Final temp is about 140F. BD still passed Jan's Methanol Test. 2. I then went back to 4 gal of methanol (20% of Vol of oil). BD still passed Jan's test. Tom - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 4:47 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Jan's Methanol test Hi All; The other day I threw out a question but it was an afterthought on another thread. Nobody has answered so here I am trying again on a specific thread. I am interested to know how many on the list do Jan Warnqvist's methanol test and how much precipitate do people get? How much is ok? The description states that every 1 ml equals 4% contaminate and indicates what 'causes washing problems' I have absolutely no washing problems now with the way my reactor is running, my BD has a density of 0.88, there is a dramatic lightening of color after the split, I get a reasonable amount of glycerine (not that this means a hell of a lot) but as an example, last batch was horrible oil I had to use 15.5 grams of KOH per liter oil and I ended up with 23 liters of BD at the end out of 25 liters oil. The first wash water was milky white and the 4th was almost like drinking water and the PH was 7.3 vs 7.4 before washing. No detectable 3rd layer formed at any stage of the process. By all accounts this should be good quality fuel but I will still get a little fallout from the methanol test ( I haven't quantified it yet because I didn't do in in a graduated cylinder but there is definitely a clear amber liquid phase at the bottom on the tube after settling) So my question once again is who else uses this test and how is it going for you? Does anyone get a perfect result (no fallout) from this test? And finally should I be concerned by a couple of percent contamination in my fuel? I did search the mail archive twice using 'methanol test' and also 'Jan Warnqvist' as keywords, but the returns were not so informative. List members I need your wisdom! Jan perhaps you are most qualified to answer but I would really like to get a sense of the percentage of the list members who are running this test. So chime in! Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method
Sorry Pieter I guess I should have told you Drano is a NHO caustic soda base drain cleaner. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bioclaire Nederland Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 10:03 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method Can somebody explain me what is Drano ? Pieter. - Original Message - From: Derick Giorchino [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method This is more a warning than a question. But many years ago I was told that if you put Drano in a ping pong ball by use of a syringe then seal the hole. Throw the ball in gasoline and run your ass off. The gas was supposed to melt the ball and there was supposed to be a very big explosion. I never tried this although I was young at the time, I was not that stupid. If this is true gas in bio with lye have a negative effect. As I said this maybe a myth but its worth checking on. Good health. Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:46 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method A small amount of gasoline in the biodiesel shouldn't affect it too much. Some of the crazy schemes for using unheated SVO call for mixing it with 15% gasoline or such. While I don't think this is necessarily good for the diesel engine, the majority of the problems I have heard of from doing this are not sufficiently dissolving the oil, not problems with the gasoline component per se. It also seems that gasoline should be separable from biodiesel by distillation, because of the much lower vapor pressure of gasoline, although I am not sure about that. Z On 1/26/06, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan, Wouldn't you expect that 500 ppm water would be picked up in any recovered ethanol, due to even a small amount of soap production? also if the ethanol used is for automobile use, is it an E-85 blend, ie, 15% gasoline? If so I would think that the gasoline would partition into any biodiesel made from this alcohol source. How would the gasoline impact the biodiesel? Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Bias Antonio, Ken is right, the NaOH dissolves a lot quicker in ethanol if heated. In order to make ethyl esters the quality of the reactants has to be high: ethanol min 99,5% pure and oil with a water content 500 ppm and a stochiometric surplus of ethanol of at least 75% and why not 100% ? The economy of this is depending upon your possibilities of recover the excess ethanol. Good luck to you AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:55 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method On Jan 25, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Blas Antonio Guanes wrote: the problem is that, methanol costs 4 $ and pure ethanol for car costs 0.52 $, NaOH is gotten in any part.. KOH is sold in bags of 25 kilos for soap industry.. Here in Paragua it is difficult to get chemical products. for that reason I want know how I can make with oil, ethanol and NaOH Have you tried dissolving NaOH in pure anhydrous ethanol? It is difficult. If you can dissolve the required amount (perhaps by boiling the ethanol/NaOH mixture under reflux), you could possibly make biodiesel out of very clean dry oil. If you only use 3.5g NaOH per liter of oil, or if your ethanol or oil contain any water, you will probably never achieve separation of a glycerine phase. All your ingredients go into a clear solution, and just stay that way forever. Until glycerine separates, you don't have biodiesel. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method
This is more a warning than a question. But many years ago I was told that if you put Drano in a ping pong ball by use of a syringe then seal the hole. Throw the ball in gasoline and run your ass off. The gas was supposed to melt the ball and there was supposed to be a very big explosion. I never tried this although I was young at the time, I was not that stupid. If this is true gas in bio with lye have a negative effect. As I said this maybe a myth but its worth checking on. Good health. Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:46 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method A small amount of gasoline in the biodiesel shouldn't affect it too much. Some of the crazy schemes for using unheated SVO call for mixing it with 15% gasoline or such. While I don't think this is necessarily good for the diesel engine, the majority of the problems I have heard of from doing this are not sufficiently dissolving the oil, not problems with the gasoline component per se. It also seems that gasoline should be separable from biodiesel by distillation, because of the much lower vapor pressure of gasoline, although I am not sure about that. Z On 1/26/06, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan, Wouldn't you expect that 500 ppm water would be picked up in any recovered ethanol, due to even a small amount of soap production? also if the ethanol used is for automobile use, is it an E-85 blend, ie, 15% gasoline? If so I would think that the gasoline would partition into any biodiesel made from this alcohol source. How would the gasoline impact the biodiesel? Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Bias Antonio, Ken is right, the NaOH dissolves a lot quicker in ethanol if heated. In order to make ethyl esters the quality of the reactants has to be high: ethanol min 99,5% pure and oil with a water content 500 ppm and a stochiometric surplus of ethanol of at least 75% and why not 100% ? The economy of this is depending upon your possibilities of recover the excess ethanol. Good luck to you AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:55 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method On Jan 25, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Blas Antonio Guanes wrote: the problem is that, methanol costs 4 $ and pure ethanol for car costs 0.52 $, NaOH is gotten in any part.. KOH is sold in bags of 25 kilos for soap industry.. Here in Paragua it is difficult to get chemical products. for that reason I want know how I can make with oil, ethanol and NaOH Have you tried dissolving NaOH in pure anhydrous ethanol? It is difficult. If you can dissolve the required amount (perhaps by boiling the ethanol/NaOH mixture under reflux), you could possibly make biodiesel out of very clean dry oil. If you only use 3.5g NaOH per liter of oil, or if your ethanol or oil contain any water, you will probably never achieve separation of a glycerine phase. All your ingredients go into a clear solution, and just stay that way forever. Until glycerine separates, you don't have biodiesel. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method
Hi all has anyone tried distilling the ethanol through desiccant like they use in air dryers on compressors and air brake systems? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan Warnqvist Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:56 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method Hello Bias Antonio, Ken is right, the NaOH dissolves a lot quicker in ethanol if heated. In order to make ethyl esters the quality of the reactants has to be high: ethanol min 99,5% pure and oil with a water content 500 ppm and a stochiometric surplus of ethanol of at least 75% and why not 100% ? The economy of this is depending upon your possibilities of recover the excess ethanol. Good luck to you AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:55 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method On Jan 25, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Blas Antonio Guanes wrote: the problem is that, methanol costs 4 $ and pure ethanol for car costs 0.52 $, NaOH is gotten in any part.. KOH is sold in bags of 25 kilos for soap industry.. Here in Paragua it is difficult to get chemical products. for that reason I want know how I can make with oil, ethanol and NaOH Have you tried dissolving NaOH in pure anhydrous ethanol? It is difficult. If you can dissolve the required amount (perhaps by boiling the ethanol/NaOH mixture under reflux), you could possibly make biodiesel out of very clean dry oil. If you only use 3.5g NaOH per liter of oil, or if your ethanol or oil contain any water, you will probably never achieve separation of a glycerine phase. All your ingredients go into a clear solution, and just stay that way forever. Until glycerine separates, you don't have biodiesel. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] water, ethanol and gasoline
You were right in the first assumption water and alcohol mix to make a flammable blend not as good B T U value as gasoline but much much better that water. Then the water/alcohol mix will blend with the gas thus dewatering the fuel in the tank. It is possible to use isopropyl ethanol or methanol to accomplish the same results. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Kennedy Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 9:55 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] water, ethanol and gasoline I have read much information that indicates ethanol has to be a higher proof (180+?) if it is to be mixed with gasoline. The reasoning given is that gasoline does not mix with water. I have been in the auto parts business for years and we sell gasoline additives that claim to remove moisture from the gasoline. I just checked one of these additives and it has a principle ingredient of Isopropyl Alcohol. I always assumed that ethanol would mix with water and gasoline to form one compound that would burn. But, after reading some of the ethanol material, i realize that i must be mistaken. When 160 proof ethanol and gasoline are mixed, what happens? does the gasoline mix with the ethanol and the water separate out from the ethanol and fall to the bottom? Why would isopropyl alcohol behave differently than ethanol? Why has our country converged on E85 as the alternative fuel of choice for gasoline vehicles? Is there any positive benefit from the gasoline added the ethanol, other than denaturing it? thanks -Mark ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] California Emissions
I cant speak for all states but Calif has no emission requirements for on road diesel equipment. The closest thing is called a snap test. Where the throttle is slammed wide open for seconds while the exhaust gas is compared to a color chart to make sure the engine is not over fueling and or not misfiring. Although there was a sticker on my truck when I got it stating meeting Calif emissions. I hope this helps. Derick. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:03 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] California Emissions Also they should add a test for aldehydes if they are going to be progressive and welcome biodieselers into the fold. Biodiesel has the potential to produce these toxic compounds if the combustion process is not tuned right. You hear so much about how biodiesel is so great on the emissions tests but then they don't test for aldehydes in any of the emissions tests do they? Joe Zeke Yewdall wrote: I don't think it is so much that the diesel will fail california emissions, so much as CA (and the northeast) plain refuse to test new diesels. In general, diesel emissions tests just measure how thick the black smoke is -- completely different than anything than is tested on gasoline cars. If you are asking about taking the diesel to the gasoline emissions test, I imagine that it might fail because of high NOx readings. And biodiesel doesn't help with this. CO and HC are probabably lower for the diesel than most gas cars. It would be interesting to know, though, as I don't think I've ever heard anything on it. Ironically, by prohibiting new diesels, they are probably making alot of people import old 80's mercedes diesels, or large diesel trucks, which pollute MORE than a nice new diesel car would... On 1/23/06, Greg Ocnos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am thinking of buying a Jeep Liberty diesel. I live in Massachusetts and they do not sell diesel cars any more because of the high standard of emissions. I would have to go out of state to buy this Jeep. These vehicles must pass an emissions test every other year. Mind you, you can buy a full size pickup with a diesel and they have a different standard to use. Would the use of 20% biodiesel let this vehicle pass this California emissions test? What are these people looking at that makes it fail emissions. What can I do about it? Greg O. In MA. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Study Hits EPA Plan to Censor Community Pollution Reports
Yup I live where the governater makes all the earth crushing laws that will help us not to do what is needed. There was a suggestion made here a week or 2 back. Ask your supplier to buy the used veg oil. Get a receipt. I figure 10 cents per hundred gallons is as good as any #. This way you only transport uvo not wvo. As the new law points to. Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:11 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Study Hits EPA Plan to Censor Community Pollution Reports Yet in California WVO is so dangerous that it needs a special license and 1 million dollars worth of insurance to even touch it. I wonder why it is not illegal to transport 35 lbs of SVO? Logically, it is the same stuff. And what do I do with my used turkey fryer oil? I wonder if the big rendering companies will come get it? I don't want to break this important law. Anyone on this list live in CA?? Study Hits EPA Plan to Censor Community Pollution Reports http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1137447634.news The study's finding that EPA should be tracking a wider array of these persistent, bioaccumulating substances comes as the Bush Administration is proposing to do just the opposite. A pending EPA plan, subject to public comment until Jan. 13, would sharply curtail a citizens' right to know critical information about pollutants in their communities. full article http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1137447634.news Many States Oppose Bush Pollution Plan http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1137446547.news Houston TX - So far, twelve states have voiced opposition to the Bush administration's plan to ease rules on reporting legal toxin releases. Attorney generals representing the twelve states, said in a letter addressed to the EPA, that the Bush administration's pollution plan compromises the public's right to know about possible health risks in their neighborhoods full article http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1137446547.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Run for your livees!!
Dont fool around. This already exists. Or you know those moist towlettes they give you in a restaurant for cleaning your fingers after gorging yourself on hot wings? How about a moist towlette with suscreen in it for the beach rather than carrying around a whole bottle? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 5:53 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Run for your livees!! Hi Mike; I would like to know more. I have lots of ideas too, like peel and stick butter. Imagine a thin square of butter that fits perfectly on your bread on release paper. Just peel and stick. Ring shapes are for bagels. Or you know those moist towlettes they give you in a restaurant for cleaning your fingers after gorging yourself on hot wings? How about a moist towlette with suscreen in it for the beach rather than carrying around a whole bottle? What about a Blackberry unit with built in PEZ dispenser, maybe you could have a _javascript_ running which would let you know when the PEZ is running low, to save face in social situations, or what about a bar that offers hot rocks? Yes hot rocks. Imagine coming in on a cold winter day after a hard ride on the sled, and ordering up a platter of heated stones to place in the middle of your table so you and your buddies can sit around and warm your hands and faces while sucking back a cold pint? Almost like a sauna on demand. You could order takeout and take them home to stick in your bed! What about an alarm that goes off to warn you when you are about to stick your foot in your mouth? or how about a diaper with a flashing light to let you know when you've got work to do ( or the person looking after you does!).so many ideas..so little time..ahh Joe Mike Weaver wrote: I have a few notions that I believe are probably patentable. I talked to a good family friend who is a patent lawyer and he agreed. However, the issue is more in being able to afford the patent work, and the inevitable lawsuits that will follow. After the past few years,I have begun to believe that the best thing to do is to publish or license the works under an open or creative commons license.If I get off my duff and make a product, I can sell it, and anyone else can too.Anyone have any experience with this?Is the Appleseed processor under this sort of patent?-MikeRobert Carr wrote: Yep, that is real good, this ad is well put together. but I for one resentpeople trying to make money out of info that others have made available forfreeHow about filling this guys ebay mailbox with crap? I have already done mybit lol (nothing nasty or abusive though)- Original Message -From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Monday, December 26, 2005 2:09 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Run for your livees!! Wow. Glad I'm not one of those biodiesel crackpots. Errr.Um. NevermindRemember. Don't share this with your friends.On 12/25/05, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Too good not to share, or, is this why people think we are crackpots? http://cgi.ebay.com/BioDiesel-Made-Easy-Manual-Book-Make-your-own-from-home_W0QQitemZ4599779724QQcategoryZ378QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Or, look up item 4599779724 on ebay.Too funnyHappy Holidays,Mike___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO
They might now be dead. But what the hell there are lots of others to keep the doors open. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JJJN Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:05 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO Funny you mention this Derick, I have two sources one gives me 2.5 gallons of water per 5 gallons of grease but it is like virgin oil when its cleaned up. My other source gives me the oil in clean dry 5 gallon containers with caps but the FFA's are really high. It certainly would be an eye opener for those folks that eat the French fries and onion rings if they only knew or are they just brave Hm. Jim Derick Giorchino wrote: Yes there is but the titration is off the charts. This has only happened 2 times since I have been doing this about 2 years. And the wvo is normally a very good quality. Titration at about 2 or 2.25 + the 3.5. As apposed to the 9 to 14 + 3.5 I started with. I was advised to not eat at those places. I haven't been back for a FFA dinner or stock for the process. I didn't mention before but the settling tank also has the advantage of settling out the goop you need to filter out for processing. It seems to be heavier than the oil. This gives me wvo that looks like tan salad oil clear and clean, I haven't had a failed batch since. Oops I may have just jinxed myself. It seems that the food particles also hold a large amount of water that will make it harder to process. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 6:56 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO Wow - that's a lot of water - is there any other source of WVO near you? Derick Giorchino wrote: I also had some trouble in the beginning. I now use a settling drum I found the design on J T F and it works very well. I collect my wvo in the wee hours on my way to work and have collected 20+ gal of water in 40 gal pickup. I drain the pure water out after a few hours of settling then heat the balance to 120 f and drain it once more. The separation drum has 2 drain valves one on the bottom and one about 6 inches off the bottom. That where I get a nice clean product fro processing. It may seem that the energy used is a waste but I find it is better than 120 liters of failure. Good luck Derick *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Lee Eady, D.C. *Sent:* Monday, January 02, 2006 12:05 PM *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject:* [Biofuel] removing water from WVO I am just getting started making BD. I have had some trouble getting all the water removed from the WVO. Is it a must to heat the oil if so how hot, how long? Will it settle out on its own if just sits if so how long do I need to let it settle? Any info will be appreciated. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
Re: [Biofuel] More on California - It was bound to happen - is this the beginning of the end for BD?
Yup I reside in Sacramento this would be good info. To hell with the governor. Did he not here his buddy in D.C. say we need to work on alternate fuel. We the people are doing what the government wont or cant and now we are going to become criminals. I guess if that's the worst thing I do I will go to my grave feeling good about my criminal activates. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 5:56 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] More on California - It was bound to happen - is this the beginning of the end for BD? http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2080 Mike Weaver wrote: Gov Arnold signed into law in Sept 05 a waste collection law AB1065, that had no minimum use exemption and classified all restaurant waste as waste grease. There are several of us in California that have developed a letter that we have sent to our legislators and the author asking for an amendment. This law was sponsored by the refiners as a response to broken contracts. Another thing that they have been doing is making new contracts that have a all or nothing clause. They will not take the trap waste without the fryer oil. This new law requires anyone who collects waste grease in any amount to have a liscense and 1million dollar bond insurance. This is wrong and we are trying to fight it. If any of you on this list live in CA please contact me so I can get you the copy of the letter. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO
Just an old oil drum flat bottom. I used a 4x4 stuck it in the drum center and with the help of a hydraulic jack pushed the center down 1 or 2 . I use an emersion heater. All the containers I have in my process are equipped with heaters and thermostats. Even the wash tank for winter washing. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dr. Lee Eady Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 10:00 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO Is the settling drum you use the cone bottom or is it flat bottom? What do you use to heat the oil? From: Derick Giorchino [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 13:32:23 -0800 I also had some trouble in the beginning. I now use a settling drum I found the design on J T F and it works very well. I collect my wvo in the wee hours on my way to work and have collected 20+ gal of water in 40 gal pickup. I drain the pure water out after a few hours of settling then heat the balance to 120 f and drain it once more. The separation drum has 2 drain valves one on the bottom and one about 6 inches off the bottom. That where I get a nice clean product fro processing. It may seem that the energy used is a waste but I find it is better than 120 liters of failure. Good luck Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Eady, D.C. Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:05 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO I am just getting started making BD. I have had some trouble getting all the water removed from the WVO. Is it a must to heat the oil if so how hot, how long? Will it settle out on its own if just sits if so how long do I need to let it settle? Any info will be appreciated. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO
I also had some trouble in the beginning. I now use a settling drum I found the design on J T F and it works very well. I collect my wvo in the wee hours on my way to work and have collected 20+ gal of water in 40 gal pickup. I drain the pure water out after a few hours of settling then heat the balance to 120 f and drain it once more. The separation drum has 2 drain valves one on the bottom and one about 6 inches off the bottom. That where I get a nice clean product fro processing. It may seem that the energy used is a waste but I find it is better than 120 liters of failure. Good luck Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Eady, D.C. Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:05 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO I am just getting started making BD. I have had some trouble getting all the water removed from the WVO. Is it a must to heat the oil if so how hot, how long? Will it settle out on its own if just sits if so how long do I need to let it settle? Any info will be appreciated. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] quality test questions
Not knowing where you are in the process. I would sagest using the stock methoxide formula listed on J.T.F. after titration I mix the methoxide 1 gram less then the titration # and 1 gram more. I find that the results often differ with the feed stock used. After figuring out which 1/2 liter test batch is best I fine tune it 1/2 gram at a time until I start to get soap. I then go back 1/4 gram and use it for processing. It may seem like a lot of work but it can be done all at the same time I just mark the tops of the bottles with the mix used. When I started I found it very hard to see a change with new oil. After doing 2 qts of new oil just to see the basics I moved to wvo in 1/2 liter batches. I also found that the group helped me a lot it seems I thought I was using accurate measurements but only half of the crap I picked up for measuring was even close. Good luck. Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darryl West Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 3:37 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] quality test questions Hi, I am just after a bit more advice regarding the quality test on a small test batch. I followed the Dr Peppers technique using new canola oil and the process seems to have worked out ok. When I do the quality test I get separation in 30 mins, but also get a small (5cm) white layer between the water and biodiesel, which I believe is soap. Does this indicate poor fuel? Would it still be ok to wash and dry and use, or should I not use this batch and maybe use less methanol and lye? thanks Darryl West ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO
Yes there is but the titration is off the charts. This has only happened 2 times since I have been doing this about 2 years. And the wvo is normally a very good quality. Titration at about 2 or 2.25 + the 3.5. As apposed to the 9 to 14 + 3.5 I started with. I was advised to not eat at those places. I haven't been back for a FFA dinner or stock for the process. I didn't mention before but the settling tank also has the advantage of settling out the goop you need to filter out for processing. It seems to be heavier than the oil. This gives me wvo that looks like tan salad oil clear and clean, I haven't had a failed batch since. Oops I may have just jinxed myself. It seems that the food particles also hold a large amount of water that will make it harder to process. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 6:56 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO Wow - that's a lot of water - is there any other source of WVO near you? Derick Giorchino wrote: I also had some trouble in the beginning. I now use a settling drum I found the design on J T F and it works very well. I collect my wvo in the wee hours on my way to work and have collected 20+ gal of water in 40 gal pickup. I drain the pure water out after a few hours of settling then heat the balance to 120 f and drain it once more. The separation drum has 2 drain valves one on the bottom and one about 6 inches off the bottom. That where I get a nice clean product fro processing. It may seem that the energy used is a waste but I find it is better than 120 liters of failure. Good luck Derick *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Lee Eady, D.C. *Sent:* Monday, January 02, 2006 12:05 PM *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject:* [Biofuel] removing water from WVO I am just getting started making BD. I have had some trouble getting all the water removed from the WVO. Is it a must to heat the oil if so how hot, how long? Will it settle out on its own if just sits if so how long do I need to let it settle? Any info will be appreciated. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] NaOH does not dissolve
Hi Alan The cold weather could be a problem. In the summer I put my methanol tank in a 5 gal bucket to cool it since it gets so hot with the mixing process and dissolves in short order. 8 hrs I mix it about every 1/2 hr. but in the cold weather I put the methanol tank in hot tap water to get it started yet I seem to mix it for much longer to get it to dissolve. Hope this helps. Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bob allen Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 5:26 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] NaOH does not dissolve are you sure that it is methanol? camp fuel in my parts- the Ozarks- is white gas , basically gasoline. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am working on making my first batch of Biodiesel and I can not seem to get the NaOH to dissolve in the methanol. I am using Ozark Trail brand stove fuel purchased from WalMart for methanol. I did read on the website that the NaOH can be difficult to dissolve but it has been 18 hours since I have mixed it and little or none appears to have dissolved. I did have the methanol stored in my garage in a sealed container for a month or maybe a little more and the temps were down to 6 degrees Farinenheit. Could these cold tempatures have messed it up? Also I am only trying to mix 5 liters of methanol with 108 grams of NaOH split evenly into two containers because I could not find one container large enough that was translucent. Any ideas or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Alan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.13.7/182 - Release Date: 11/24/2005 -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] USA should be renamed USE
Just goes to show you money can buy you the answers you want. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 4:35 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] USA should be renamed USE Actually, almost nothing shocks me any more... Zeke Yewdall wrote: You're being sarcastic Mike, I hope? On 11/28/05, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm shocked. radema wrote: Chairman of the House Intelligence subcommittee on terrorism and human intelligence admits taking $2.4Million in bribes. http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/28/congressman.shouse.ap/index.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Diesel pick-ups in Canada
The last diesel pickup I saw sold in North America was a Isuzu pup. They had there flaws but it wasn't the engine. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of robert luis rabello Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 5:08 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Diesel pick-ups in Canada steve reimer wrote: Any suggestions on where I can find a small to mid sized diesel pick-up truck in Ontario, Canada? In the truck trader, I only found 2 or 3 older trucks with over 300 000km. Good luck, Steve! Nobody has made a small or mid sized diesel for sale in North America for a LONG time. If you want a newer one that hasn't been driven into the ground, you'll have to import one of those lovely diesel Rangers from Mexico. (I'd love to get one myself!) Otherwise, you're stuck with a 3 / 4 to full ton beast with a big block diesel, like the GM 6.2 / 6.5, Duramax, Dodge Cummins (those are a little over 5 liters in displacement, I believe), or the Ford Powerstroke. Expect to pay a LOT of money for a full sized diesel. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disposal of glycerin...
Is there any one out there that is recovering the glycerin from there waste? I have now treated approximately 5 gal of it but I find the separation to be distinct but almost the same color as the FFA. Almost dark roast coffee colored. And is there a good way to separate the FFA from the glycerol? I have tried and it seems to be hard to do. I don't like to quit so I will keep going until I find a better way. So if there is something refined out there please let me know. Thanks Derick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Appal Energy Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:44 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Disposal of glycerine... Michael, Treat the cocktail with phosphoric acid to recover the FFAs. Then evaporate the methanol and recover it by condensing. That leaves the precipitate fertilizer and crudely refined glycerol to condtend with. The glycerol is a simple sugar and can be distributed with the graywater from the wash. Presumably you'll be treating the wash water to recover the soaps. Todd Swearingen mostly i mean what settles out of transesterification todd. On 11/27/05, *Appal Energy* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, Are you speaking of what settles out of a transesterification? Or are you speaking of the remaining glycerol after performing a free fatty acid recovery on the same soup? Todd Swearingen Hi folks I haven't started my production yet but I recently realized that I wasn't sure what I was going to do about disposing of the left over glycerine. I live on a small plot on the local reservoir and I can't just dump it or compost it .Any suggestions? what are you guy's doing with it? yes i could just put it in the trash but i have to pay for trash removal. Michael Luich ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 11/25/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone
I think you added far too much. As I recall you only need 2 to 5 oz per ten gal of gas and even less for diesel. There is a brake point when I was using dino fuel I used the max recommended for diesel with no noticeable change. Then I did the minimum and had a small increase and worked my way up until the mileage started back down. With the end results being 3 mpg gain on almost 3 oz's per 10 gal. This was done over several months. I drive the same road every day at the same time 3 A.M. and home at 1.30 P.M. at the same speed on cruse control. There is no traffic to speak of at that hour. Weather is the only factor that would change but when I did the tests the weather pattern was fairly fixed. I hope this helps. Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Riznyk Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 12:17 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone I added a cupful of acetone to a tank on my VW jetta TDI. I heard so boiling and hissing coming from the fuel tank for about 5 minutes. I didn't notice any increase in fuel economy. I only tried the acetone once. Ken --- Alt.EnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Yes I was wondering about the acetone experiments also. As far as I know a few people on 2 or 3 other lists were going to document their experiments. Anybody hear of any updates? tallex Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ---Original Message--- From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone Sent: 18 Nov '05 20:47 while we are on this thread, might we wander back a few months to a related issue? That is the claim that addition of small amounts of acetone to both compression and spark ignition engines would result in dramatic increases in fuel efficiency, as much as 35 % increases claimed by some. http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/ Anybody have any well-controlled results to report? robert luis rabello wrote: William Adams wrote: David, Thanks for the correction of air intake. Agreed, it would be good to look at the beast. Can the anecdotes can be believed ? And, is the concept for real? The concept of supplemental hydrogen injection IS a valid one. Whether or not this can be accomplished with any real gains in power and fuel economy using an onboard electrolyzer makes me very skeptical. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone
I have used the acetone on dino fuel with 2.5 gpm increase I also have tried it on bio and found a net loss of about the same 2.5 gpm but I only tried it one time at 2 oz per 10 gal on both fuels. Derick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alt.EnergyNetwork Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 1:06 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone Hi, Yes I was wondering about the acetone experiments also. As far as I know a few people on 2 or 3 other lists were going to document their experiments. Anybody hear of any updates? tallex Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ---Original Message--- From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone Sent: 18 Nov '05 20:47 while we are on this thread, might we wander back a few months to a related issue? That is the claim that addition of small amounts of acetone to both compression and spark ignition engines would result in dramatic increases in fuel efficiency, as much as 35 % increases claimed by some. http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/ Anybody have any well-controlled results to report? robert luis rabello wrote: William Adams wrote: David, Thanks for the correction of air intake. Agreed, it would be good to look at the beast. Can the anecdotes can be believed ? And, is the concept for real? The concept of supplemental hydrogen injection IS a valid one. Whether or not this can be accomplished with any real gains in power and fuel economy using an onboard electrolyzer makes me very skeptical. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Conical tank or Inductor Tank
Try mcmastercarr.com that's where I got my wash tank. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JJJN Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 4:40 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Conical tank or Inductor Tank Hello Rob, I just bought a 35 Gallon HDPE tank in Billings MT It cost 65.00 (i will have to get the receipt for an exact figure) If you are interested let me know they will ship in USA and mabey Canada. Jim Rob Rogers wrote: Does anyone know how to make a plastic Conical Tank? I really don't want a steel one because it will eventually rust. Or where can I get a reasonable deal on one? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Still looking for a cheap TEFC motor
I have used mine with a 1/2 drill, clear water pump and the winch motor that I have attached a hydraulic pump for oil transfer with no signs of overheating. Harbor freight item # 43060 ovga router speed control $24.99 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Dunn Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:28 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Still looking for a cheap TEFC motor On 10/26/05, Derick Giorchino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a router speed controller in harbor freight when it on sale that is most of the time it is inexpensive and works quite well It doesn't look like Harbor Freight is offer that item right now. I see that some other sites are offering something called a router speed controller. No issue with the motor overheating using the speed controller? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Still looking for a cheap TEFC motor
In my area there are lots of abandoned hot tubs on the side of the road during area clean up the local landfill would surly have a few the motors would be good ill bet. Good luck Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:32 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Still looking for a cheap TEFC motor Hi Ken Keith said: Frankly, Ken, I'm not that interested in whether it could or not. Improvise, sure, go ahead, best of good luck and all, but motors are common enough aren't they? Why not just use a motor? Well, while motors are common enough buying the motor off the shelf instead of the pump will cost me atleast twice as much. I think free motors should be common enough too, lots of things you can salvage a motor from, some might be TEFC. What gets junked that uses TEFC motors but it's not usually the motor failing that gets it junked? On the other hand if you get it to work that's great. Whatever, I can't see why you think I might want to bet on it. You asked if it's TEFC, I told you it is and pointed you to some information on its pumping limits, and so? Absolutely! I don't want to bet on it. That's why I'm asking questions. I'm trying to raise a family and do the right things. $50 is not much on the grand scale but $50 here or there is all together different. And, as I've mentioned in the past, everything that I'm doing, I want to be able help others with. That pump at Harbor Freight is something that seems readily available at an affordable price. The TEFC motor (again, off the shelf) is not quite as affordable. I'm here to tell you, though, if I can save myself, a friend or someone else who may be following the thread 50 bucks, I'm gonna do it. In as globally friendly manner as possible, of course. Absolutely to you too, and strength to yer arm withal. I didn't want to put on one side or the other on whether it'll work or not. I'll more than likely buy the motor that I found but, test the improvised motor taken from the pump, when I can afford it, later. Take care, Ken And you, good luck Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Still looking for a cheap TEFC motor
There is a router speed controller in harbor freight when it on sale that is most of the time it is inexpensive and works quite well I have used it with a small high speed motor from a 110v wench that I luvjoyed to a week hydraulic pump. I found that the motor was so fast it wanted to spit out the luvjoy the speed reducer worked well to help. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Dunn Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:59 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Still looking for a cheap TEFC motor I had a moment of clarity and called a local electric motor repair shop. It would seem that they might have something that someone decided not to pay to bill for. It would also seem that they might be willing to move it cheap to recoup expenses. Lo and behold, they have a 1/2 hp TEFC motor with a weak low speed (1200 +- RPM) but a strong high speed (1720+- RPM). The price is good, the best I've found. Is this thing going to be total overkill for a 55 gallon stir processor, though? Take care, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Still looking for a cheap TEFC motor
There is a router speed controller in harbor freight when it on sale that is most of the time it is inexpensive and works quite well I have used it with a small high speed motor from a 110v wench that I luvjoyed to a week hydraulic pump. I found that the motor was so fast it wanted to spit out the luvjoy the speed reducer worked well to help. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Dunn Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:59 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Still looking for a cheap TEFC motor I had a moment of clarity and called a local electric motor repair shop. It would seem that they might have something that someone decided not to pay to bill for. It would also seem that they might be willing to move it cheap to recoup expenses. Lo and behold, they have a 1/2 hp TEFC motor with a weak low speed (1200 +- RPM) but a strong high speed (1720+- RPM). The price is good, the best I've found. Is this thing going to be total overkill for a 55 gallon stir processor, though? Take care, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Still looking for a cheap TEFC motor
Sorry I mean winch. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bob allen Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:54 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Still looking for a cheap TEFC motor Derick Giorchino wrote: snip from a 110v wench / winch whoopee, she sounds like fun. -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Scientific method- Easy Keith!
You get not too much of an argument from me but. It seems you are intent on grouping all Americans as one. I also have more than one citizenship. But I went to war for this country and would do it over, for the right reasons, when I came to America many years ago it was the envy of the world. And I feel it still would be. If not for the government and corporate B.S. It disgusts me, but I dont include myself as part of that. All I can do is try in my own way to change things for the better. If not for me but maybe my kids and grand kids. Not that I think it will ever be as it was. But surly it could stand just a tad of improvement. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Redler Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 7:35 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Scientific method- Easy Keith! OK, you have my attention. Derick wrote: Not all Americans are lazy stupid or helpless. As an American, I'd like to think that this is true. In fact, I don't thinkthat Americans aremore lazy than any other country or culture. Despite being the most obese country in the world, we find ourselves in the workplace at least as many hours as any other country in the world. Joe wrote: This explains the typical american arrogance that drips from his rhetoric and which irritates you so well. There are expectations by Americans that other countries and cultures recognize us as somehow superior. If anyone doubts this, here is a little experiment: Take comments so commonlyheard in political speeches as well as at backyard barbecues (i.e. We are the greatest country in the world) and apply it to Germany (for example). In fact, when an Americanpresident (especially our current president) makes a speech and it's translated into German andThe United States is replaced with Germany, I would argue that manyAmericans would be shocked thatANYhead of state would make such a speech. This is the American double standard which I like to call a kind of pseudo-mutuality since there are still a few countries who arepolitically and culturally aligned with this image. There issomething terribly wrong with our culture and it's just outside the view of most citizens. CallingAmericanslazy though, isinaccurate andminimizesour long list of troubles. This is what I mean by list. You try to connect the dots. 1.) We have more homicides in our major cities than casualties inwar (irrespective of the circumstancesin that war). 2.) We have abizarre view of leadership and fairness by virtue of the fact that thepresident (irrespective of which president) is pledged allegiance even when he (not she -yet) takes action which adversely effects the majority of citizens. At the same time, Americans are knownfor supporting the underdog and down trodden - almost as if to perpetuate and preserve this demographic. 3.) We struggle to have a standard of K-12 education that matches that of other developed countries while placing huge emphasis on faith and mixed interpretations of morality. 4.) Half of the citizens in the United States do not support a document which prevented dictatorships and provided the means for citizens to prosper for the last two and a half centuries. At the same time, the same proportion of citizens don't show up to vote for (arguably) the most powerful political position in the free world. http://www.radessays.com/viewpaper.php?nats=MTAxMToyOjErequest=38800 http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a397df8d00620.htm 5.) Despite being a republic,the US government has taken it upon itself to preach democracy to other countries - countries with better representation of their citizens through coalition governments, better voter turnout and more opportunities for referendums. 6.) We have a so called free press which either hides or glorifies the last five points according to a political agenda, making Americans believe that journalism here is as comprehensive as that in otherdeveloped countries. ...and the list goes on. One last note: I have a dual citizenship which allows me to permanently move out of the country. However, my other list of things that I love about my country (having nothing to do with government or politics) keeps me here. I prefer to stay and be one of many voices of dissent. Mike Other References: http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism9.htm http://gozips.uakron.edu/~david27/flm/chap9.htm http://www.accd.edu/pac/humaniti/colby/L19.htm Derick Giorchino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is about the most ridicules statement I have seen in some time. Not all Americans are lazy stupid or helpless. Why dont you say all Arabs are terrorists? All the French smell all Russians are drunks except? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [Biofuel] Still looking for a cheap TEFC motor
I have had my pump apart, brass or bronze impeller the motor seems to be sealed and has an external cooling fan. I think it is a 1/4 hp motor. As for using it to spin a mixer I think it maybe a lot to ask inrush could do some harm until the oil gets going and the r.p.m. would give you one hell of a vortex. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Dunn Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 8:42 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Still looking for a cheap TEFC motor I was looking back through to archives tonight to see if I could maybe stumble across a source for cheap TEFC motors and I found one of the many references to the clear water pumps available through Harbor Freight and Northern Tool and such. Upon checking out Harbor Freight, I noticed that they are selling a 1 inch clear water pump for $29.99USD. Here is the link: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1479 Looking at the image provided, I might assume that the motor matched up to the pump is a TEFC motor. I wonder if someone could provide some assistance. Is it in fact a TEFC motor? What sort of HP are we talking about? Could I disassemble the pump and use the motor to drive my planned stir biodiesel process? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] mixing and heating biodiesel
As for the pump harbor freight has a 1 clear water pump $37.00 aprox also available on line I use one for 120 liters no problem as of yet and at the price you cant go wrong. Immersion heater stainless steel would be good but I work to hard to pay so much for that so I use a standerd 240 volt unit with 110 v supply. Works good. Dont let it go dry. Good luck Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Leven Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 5:21 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] mixing and heating biodiesel I am setting up my processor and want to use a pump to mix. What type and size of pump would be suitable for 15-20 gallon batch. Does it have to be resistant to methanol and lye mix as well as fry oil? Also when using an immersion heater for the heat source is is critical that it also be resistant ie; stainlesss or can a steel unit withstand the mix for a long time before needing replacement? Andrew Leven ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Multi Fuel Engines
My unit ran our duce and a half out of go juice in Korea and we ran it on sojue . It ran well but it was hard to pour good liquor in a fuel tank. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jason Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 11:38 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Multi Fuel Engines y'know, all this jabber about multi-fuel engines has got meremebering something i saw when i was a kid. those old US army deuce-and-a-half trucks that have been around since the dawn of time can run on just about any combustible slop you can feed them. they were designed with diesel in mind, but can be easily manipulated via levers and switches to burn propane, methane, heating oil, ethanol, kerosene, petrol, diesel, and a handful of other fuels i can't think of right now. would one of those be handy to have around in a fuel crunch?(i betcha a dollar it would...) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Vegetable oil for machining coolant
As a mater of fact I use a vegetable base coolant for our steel saws. It goes under the trade name of aculube there are different grades. I will get the # and get back to you with more info. Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of des Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:43 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Vegetable oil for machining coolant Try lower case characters in the link, some browsers are more easily confused than others... ;) doug swanson malcolm maclure wrote: Keith, That link doesn't seem to work, Google recognises it but it won't load for me, shame - I'd be interested to see it. Best regards Malcolm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: 20 October 2005 18:28 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: Vegetable oil for machining coolant Can anyone help Pat Delany with this interesting project? His website is here: http://Multimachine.net/ The MULTIMACHINE Works! -- build your own machine shop Thanks, best wishes Keith Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:05:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Pat Delany [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Vegetable oil for machining coolant To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Kieth I have the site Multimachine.net and I run the Yahoo group multimachine. We have developed and built an All-in-One Machine Shop that is meant to be used in developing countries. The machine can can do all the kinds of operations that a regular machine shop does and can be totally built from the remains of a discarded truck and car. It requires no outside machining and takes just regular hand tools, a drill and a gringer to complete. We lack only a few things in the tooling department before the project can be said to be finished (if anything like this ever is). One of these things is a coolant to be used during drilling and milling. Could vegetable oil,lye and water, or something similar work? One of our group members thought that you would be the person to ask because of your experience witk bio-diesel. Pat Delany ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- All generalizations are false. Including this one. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein. All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] almost too embarrassed to ask
Well I use a clear water pump from harbor freight tools aprox $27.00 on sale and that is an item that is almost always on sale. I used a drill at first with a paint paddle through a steel top. After Keith made a coment about how it didn't sound so smart I built a sealed reactor from 55 gal drum with a removable lid w band clamp dump valve on the bottom of the drum and inlet in the lid I found the pressure bothersum to me so I also added a small 1/4'' hole in the lid I use it to pump in the methoxide and after that leave it open for a small vent the water pump chugs along very well with not much chance of fire or explosion. I do this outside in a open area. The only draw back is the pump will not self prime so it needs to be lower than the wvo to start. After some frustrations I just leave it on the ground through the whole process.and drain the pump after so it doesn't lock up with the glycerin. And if you have been mixing buy hand for some batches I think you have dodged a bigger bullet than this. Good luck Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Vaughn Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 4:09 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] almost too embarrassed to ask I have made over 900 gallons of Biodiesel. The cheapy clearwater pump hasn't disolved yet and no explosions or mishaps. Bill From: Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] almost too embarrassed to ask Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Hi all, My name's Kenji Fuse and I'm a homebrewer in Victoria, BC. Still killing myself stirring the stuff manually, so I'm ready to build a sealed processor. I have a question to put out to you fine experienced folk: what's the best mechanical method of mixing? Does the Clear Water pump really last long? I'm tempted to get one but I'm scared the thing will dissolve before my eyes, especially when the guy at Pumpbiz called me a penny-wise fool who would kill himself using it! He wanted me to buy the $200+ pump... Is it a good idea to get an explosion-proof pump? IS this just a marketing term, or are those electric Tuthill pumps really worth their gold? They are made for volatile fluids, so maybe, but the cost! I'm afraid to use an electric drill cuz mine sparks. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! Kenji Old Paradigm Fuse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Burger King WVO
I have used Berger kings wvo and it has always been clean and smells good but it seems to solidify at much warmer temps and the titration is higher than the other source of oil I get. The 2 nd oil has so much crap in it solids full blown dinners and such it takes a long time to filter and it stinks sooo bad but it has yet to solidify in the 40 deg f range. Now I need to figure if I want to shovel solid wvo or deal with all the trash. Good luck Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 4:54 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Burger King WVO I have access to all the Burger King WVO that I want. But they use the crap out of it, only changing their oil once a week. I made a test batch and the only difference between the Burger King test batch and others is the dark color. So is it safe to use the Burger King BD? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] good wvo candidate
Well yes and no. although the older Cummins 5.9 engine is old school and will handle wvo if the conversion is done right. The engine has limited electronics and thus has fewer problems. The basic engine is the same new or old excepting the injection and added electronics and catalytic converter also the newer 24 valve has much more power than the 12 valve although the mileage is the same all will tell you 18 to 24 mpg. Good luck. Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 6:41 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] good wvo candidate Hey, I'm new to the list and I've just recently become interested in using waste cooking oil to fuel my commute. I am looking to buy a good diesel truck to convert. So far, I've gathered that an older dodge is probably the best route. I've also heard that indirect injection is better than direct injection and older engines are more durable. Am I on the right path? Please let me know, because I am chomping at the bit. Make April 15th Just Another Day-Visit FairTax.org Mandy Regal ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] oil price gouging poll
You bet they are and the local gov and fed are in on it to an extent. The big power players own the oil co globally in stocks bonds except. It is in there best interest to get the price as high as they can. That is there personal gain. On the other side of the fence is those same people as a government and there is a big problem they are or were all broke now the taxes coming in are fixing some of there screwed up values and I don't think there going to look very hard at fuel prices since it is lining there pockets very well. I only wish they would have to do a budget as we all do. No more cash no more spending. Thank for listening. Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alt.EnergyNetwork Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 2:28 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] oil price gouging poll H, so in light of this poll, does anyone believe that the oil co's, auto co's and politicos are going to actually do anything about it, besides some feeble, feel good conservation PR?? regards tallex Most Americans say oil companies are price gouging Four out of five Americans would support a tax on the windfall profits of oil companies if the resulting revenues were devoted to alternative energy research, according to an Opinion Research Corp. (ORC) poll conducted for 40mpg.org and the Boston-based nonprofit and nonpartisan Civil Society Institute (CSI). CSI is a think tank and the 40mpg.org campaign is a project of CSI. Other key survey findings include: 87 percent of Americans think that oil companies are gouging gasoline consumers today; 81 percent say the federal government is not doing enough about high energy prices and America's overreliance on Middle Eastern oil; 73 percent believe that recent gasoline price hikes now make it more important that the federal government impose higher fuel-efficiency standards; and four out of five adults say that U.S. automakers should follow the same path as Toyota, which intends that all of its new cars going forward will use fuel-saving hybrid technology. In response to the poll, 40mpg.org has launched an online petition at www.40mpg.org allowing Americans to tell their members of Congress and the White House that they want major steps taken in terms of a windfall profits tax on oil companies and tougher fuel-efficiency standards on vehicles. CSI president Pam Solo said: Americans have seen too much price gouging and too little action from Washington on energy prices, fuel-efficient vehicles and our dangerous reliance on foreign oil. The benefits of making 40 miles per gallon the standard for all autos in the United States are obvious to Americans: consumers save money; we reduce our dangerous reliance on Middle Eastern oil, making us more secure in the world; air pollution is reduced; and we can cut the U.S. contribution to global warming by nearly a third. Greater fuel efficiency makes sense, it is technologically possible, the benefits are real and the challenges can be overcome. Some key highlights of the poll are: + Price gouging. Some 87 percent think big oil companies are currently gouging consumers at the gas pump, with 57 percent saying there is a great deal of such price gouging going on. Fewer than 4 percent say no price gouging is going on. Political affiliation makes almost no difference in how Americans respond to this question with 87 percent of independents, 82 percent of Republicans and 91 percent of Democrats saying there is a great deal or some price gouging going on. + Windfall profits tax on oil companies. Seventy-nine percent would support a tax on the windfall profits of oil companies if the resulting revenues were spent on research on alternative energy. Support for targeting windfall profits tax revenues to underwrite alternative energy research was higher than two other listed alternatives: wetlands restoration in Gulf Coast states to minimize the impact of future hurricanes (70 percent); and a direct rebate to each consumer with a driver's license (53 percent). + Federal inaction. Four out of five think the federal government is not doing enough about high energy prices and the U.S. dependence on Middle Eastern energy sources. Political affiliation was somewhat more evident as a factor in the responses to this question, with 83 percent of independents, 74 percent of Republicans and 90 percent of Democrats expressing dissatisfaction with current federal policies + Higher fuel-efficiency standards. Seventy-three percent think that recent gasoline price hikes now make it much more or somewhat more important that the federal government takes new steps to require higher fuel-efficiency standards for cars and other vehicles. + Hybrid technology. Four out of five Americans think that U.S. automakers should follow the same path as Toyota, which has announced that all of its new cars going forward
Re: [Biofuel] Pumping WVO from tanks
If its clean you can get a pump from harbor fright 12 v and not top pricy. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 8:13 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pumping WVO from tanks I have found a Chinese restaurant that will let me have all the WVO I want and it tests good. How do I get the WVO out of the tank? It is sitting on the ground and I need to pump it into a barrel on the back of my truck. See how Chuck Ranum does it: Chuck Ranum's biodiesel processor http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor4.html Also: Pumps - Collecting used oil http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#pumps Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alright, I'm stumped.
Sad to say but I think most of us have screwed up at one point or another. My big mistake was the very first thing doing the titration with the better titration method but I for got 1 minor thing so from that point all was up hill. When checking my process one thing at a time checking and rechecking but all I did was A1 after thinking that this was all a trick I found the first thing I did was wrong. Now all is well with the process. Until I mess up once more Happy hunting. Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt Nolte Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 2:15 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Alright, I'm stumped. On 10/10/05, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The crappy mayonnaise sounds like soap. That's my ultimate thought, too. Added a very carefully measured amount of my methoxide, 100mL, to the reprocessing candidate in the blender. ... Anyway, five hours after reprocessing the first-run product, ... Did any additional glycerine fall out? ... Would suggest an incomplete reaction. If not, it would further suggest soap. I found just a tiny, tiny little film of glycerine down at the bottom. I mean itiny/i, so I don't believe it was an incomplete reaction that was the primary driving force behind the emulsion. It's probably my POS scale. In your case it may simply involve a better balance for measuring lye. Check out how to break emulsions at JtF. I'm going to hope that it is. I've rigged up something else to mix up a batch in (HDPE Mayo container from work that I'm currently letting air-dry, plus parts off the blender I toasted. ^.~ This stuff doesn't eat silicon caulking, does it?), and I'm going to go try a cheap scale idea from another site that uses water as a counterbalance. Humidity seems to be down today, maybe it'll work. Thanks Tom, it's pretty heartening to hear that other people have had similar problems, and it wasn't just made up to make us feel better. ^.~ With determination! -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo chargeddiesel vehicle!?
As for the compression 18 to 24 2/1 that is old school #s as for the head gasket there used to be a product out there called copper seal I used it in a friends van years ago since he had $0s and needed to get his van up so he could earn the cash to fix it the right way. He never did the last time I saw him several years back he was still driving the same van and never had another problem with the head gasket. This may be a stretch but wht the hell if it works eaven for a short while the $3 to $4 investment could help you for now . Good luck Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of S. Chapin Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 9:35 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo chargeddiesel vehicle!? Brian Rodgers wrote: Ok thanks I realise that the compression should be comparatively similar between cylinders, any ideas on what basic (ball park) compression should be on a diesel engine? Antone know of a trick to seal the coolant system for a minor leak coming from head gasket? Wishful thinking? From the looks of the coolant I flushed out someone already tried the bronse flake sealant. Cheers Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yup, wishful. the reality is that if the head gasket is blown, or the head has enough of a hole on the exhaust side ( a crack between intake and exhaust valves is a spot to look) then the compression is going to be slightly different now, and very different later. Given evidence of a fix in a can' effort already, and expanding hoses go for a sincere diagnosis. To continue running it, however delightful will lead to disaster. I'm not sure you couldnt swap in a newer xd3te motor or even older (ack). If the rest of the thing, trans,electrical,suspension is in good shape. If this is an xd2s, I would rebuild it, maybe 1200 for the parts and machine work (only guessing).How many miles on it?? From what I can gather the turbo peugeot motor is far more efficient than MB, if a bit less robust. If you want I'd trade you the 220d thats in the rover. nahh you're better off fixing the peugeot. Cheers, SC ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] SVO for Commercial Trucks?
Look at Willy Nelsons web sight n alt fuel.im not sure if its only bio or svo. Good luck Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of john giorgio Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 7:19 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] SVO for Commercial Trucks? I have a friend who is a trucker. I have looked into the systems that allow diesel cars to use SVO, but have not seen anything for a commercial truck sized diesel engine. Anyone know any helpful websites I can share with my friend? John __ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pumping WVO from tanks
I use 5 gal plastic buckets to dip the tank. Transport it home and filter it into the reactor. Not the only way but it works for me. The other concern at this time of year is the cold, the oil may not resemble oil when cold if you can walk on it, it is vary hard to pump. Last winter when I started this venture I used a shovel to collect the wast. Good luck Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 2:21 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pumping WVO from tanks I have found a Chinese restaurant that will let me have all the WVO I want and it tests good. How do I get the WVO out of the tank? It is sitting on the ground and I need to pump it into a barrel on the back of my truck. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes 84
I have turning wrenches for lots and lots of years. The in tank filter is 100,000.mikron and will stop up with water over the years I have had to fix this kind of problem for myself and others, a quick and easy fix is to find the first opening in the fuel line after the tank split the line open the fuel cap and give it I good hard blast of compressed air this should blow open the filter or simply blow it off the end then install the best quality filter you can buy and put it in the line this should fix the problem for a long time. Good luck Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Harves Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 5:09 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes 84 Thank you all for your reply. I have the spare filters in the car and will change when needed. The tank filter will have to be done when I have the time or if needed. As now the car runs like a rocket on the Bio, a little bit of white smoke when cold. Again thanks Peter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Red Devil Lye - Roebic-Heet
I to have had and are still having a hard time with gal veers liter grams per once except I have found that all the info is metric yet some of the equipment is in gal or ounces thats why I convert using the charts on the internet. Sorry I am not trying to confuse you maybe I need help with the measurements. I find I need to write down all steps or I get things all screwed up. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Evergreen Solutions Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:45 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Red Devil Lye - Roebic-Heet I make 120 L batches but only use about 1/2 in a week this is 6.35 gal methanol and depending on the oil about 960 gr of lye per batch. So if I drove twice as much I would use the # above.I hope this helps. Derick Just wondering, why list liters per week but talk about methanol in gallons? I assume because that's how it comes, but my mind understands metrics better. Now I have to convert. :) I think in general you can expect about 5:1 (oil to methanol), with a high (70% or so I think?) percentage of that methanol being recoverable, should you choose to distill it. At even $2.00 a gallonI think that's worth distilling. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Red Devil Lye - Roebic-Heet
Hi as I figure this is almost $10.50 a gal I get mine at a fuel oil supplier at $2.35 thats including the taxes. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul S Cantrell Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 1:29 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Red Devil Lye - Roebic-Heet Brian Rodgers wrote: I thank you very much. You are welcome, of course...Kim knew about it, I just copied the stock #... This is just the kind of info I need to get started. If I see this info five or so times it just may have a chance to sink in. Keith said I should just get started. At the moment I am content to read and research as I don't own a diesel engine. I am in no rush. The alternative is to make ethanol which is why I joined to this group to begin with. It seems to me like bio-diesel is a whole lot simpler. So for me just getting started is finding where the chemicals can be had locally. Your info did just that. I live in New Mexico and we have a Lowes. Now I need, I know, always something else, where do I get methanol for my test batches? Slowly but surely, Brian Rodgers Advance Auto Parts has Heet (yellow bottle) on sale this week for *only* US$0.98 per 12 oz (355 ml) and there's one in Clovis, NM...Other auto parts stores carry it too. We have a fuel distributor here in town, when I get to the point of moving beyond test batches. I just started driving my VW Jetta TDI as a daily driver last Monday, so I'm still in the test batch stage myself... Fred Finch wrote: Paul, make sure to update the subject heading. fred Sorry Fred, Keith et al. My bad. I realized it as soon as I hit 'send' and Gmail doesn't have a recall option. If I have one complaint about Gmail, it is that it does not show you the subject title on replies. But it is not their fault, it is mine, I just need to click the 'Edit Subject' button DOH! -- Thanks, PC He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] SUCCESS!!
You can get all the conversion info at onlineconversion.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 1:09 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] SUCCESS!! Congrats I too need to find methanol however since I am terrible with numbers and I have as yet not made the strides you have in creating a test batch, I am unclear how much methanol would be needed for say 20 gallons per week of finished biodiesel? I can see from this group and at the JTF web site it does depend on the quality of WVO, nevertheless, I would like a ball park figure so I can better picture what I will need to become more self sufficient. Sincerely, Brian Rodgers On 10/3/05, Jason Schick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I live in Phoenix, AZ and Western States Petroleum sells it in bulk for 2.67/gal. They are a petroleum distributor. I imagine you can find similar businesses around. Jason -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 10:03 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] SUCCESS!! Apparently around here you can buy methanol from the pump at the local race course -- the race cars use it for fuel. It's around $5/gallon or so I think. If you can find any race car people in your area, they may know where to get it. Zeke On 10/3/05, ReZn0r [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bobby, Congratulations!!! The first step exciting isnŽt it?? ;-) Con fecha lunes, 03 de octubre de 2005, 15:56:14, escribiste: BC OK, so my first test batch was a success! I am now thinking of scaling up, BC but I need to find a cheaper supply of methanol. Any suggestions? BC Thanks, BC Bobby Clark BC ___ BC Biofuel mailing list BC Biofuel@sustainablelists.org BC http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org BC Biofuel at Journey to Forever: BC http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html BC Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): BC http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Un Saludo, ReZn0rmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] disolving lye
I dont let it build up pressure I have the top port open all the time it is hot. The rubber is not to much to wory about I use o rings made of viton both on the shaft seal and the main opening. I also keep the discharge valve closed so it wont siphon out. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Luich Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 9:57 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] disolving lye I have one as well, My concern would be the rubber seals and having anything that dangerous under pressure. Mike Luich Salem NH On 10/3/05, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Derick, You have given me an idea re: dissolving lye w/o exposure to fumes. I am a homebrewer (beer) and have several of the soda kegs you refer to. Iuse them when I keg beer. The port at the top is for introducing CO2 to seal the lid, for carbonationandto force the beer out the other port for dispensing. After fermentation and settling, the uncarbonated beer is siphoned into the keg through the removable, clamp-down lid.CO2 is intoduced --- pressure to seal the lid. At this point they do not leak. They will leak if there is not adequate pressure inside or if the lid has a bad gasket. Thekeg is shaken/rolloed on the floor to get the CO2 dissolved. Could the same system be used to mix and then dispense the methoxide into the processor? It would not even have to be elevated.The same pressure that seals the lid forces fluid out the dipensing port. Problems: -You cannot see if all of the lye is dissolved. -Remember that the tank is pressurized. Must have a good way of regulating flow (on/off valve). Once the dispensing port is opened (via a pushdown screw-lock attachment) the fluid flows until the pressure is gone or the tank is empty. Is anybody using these soda kegs for dissolving and dispensing lye? Tom - Original Message - From: Derick Giorchino To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] disolving lye Hi there I have found a good way to mix the methoxide. The process needs some exposure to the methanol at this time. I hope to eliminate this soon. I got a stainless steal soda syrup container on e bay .5 gal cap. It has one port at the top that is above the top limit of the fluide and one port that goes to the bottom of the vessel . I took out the relief valve and put a ½ '' o ring then a ½'' I D bronze bushing. I picked up a small paint mixer at the hardware store welded a ½'' stick of round bar to the end of the mixer. After filling the vessel with methanol I add the dose of N.H.O. put the cap on and put the vessel in a large bucket of cold water. With a hand drill on the mixer I mix the stuffing out of the mix. The heat generated is quite enpresseve thus the need for the bucket of cold water. The only draw back at this time is I am doing 120 l batches = 6.35 gal of methoxide. I have been just mixing the max of methoxide and pumping raw methanol to make up the difference so for it seems to work out o.k. I don't know if I can post pictures of this on this sight but if there is any interest I would gladly send picks to those who would like. Good luck Derick ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] disolving lye
I have removed the check valves on both the inlet and exit and replaced them with hydraulic disconnects with a ball valve behind to stop the flow when not wanted. I dont wory about the dessolving of the lye. I just mix the heck out of it and when it cools to the point that I can touch the container without pain I mix it again untell there is no heat generated. I have found when I mix in a glass jar or clear plastic bottle if the mix doesnt heat when shaken the lye is dissolved. As for the hand hole I dont have leeks yet I dont tip it on the side. If I close the valves It does build up some pressure. I use a fish tank pump to transfer the finished mix to processor the draw back is I am not sure when it has all been transferred. I need to turn off the whole shooting match and listen the the processor for the faint drip or more so the lack of it. But I have the hang of it now. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Water Removal
There is a type of absorbent that will only absorb water and water based products I used to have some at work along with a sister chemical for only oil. But I work with some dumb people that didnt read they used the water absorbent on oil spills and vise versa complaining that the product sucks. Now I have none of it left I will try to find out the name of the manufacture. But as I remember it quite expensive. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 8:10 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Water Removal Are there any methods other than heating the BD to remove water? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Red Devil Lye - Roebic-Heet
I make 120 L batches but only use about 1/2 in a week this is 6.35 gal methanol and depending on the oil about 960 gr of lye per batch. So if I drove twice as much I would use the # above. I hope this helps. Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 4:11 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Red Devil Lye - Roebic-Heet this sounds like good advice On 10/3/05, Derick Giorchino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi as I figure this is almost $10.50 a gal I get mine at a fuel oil supplier at $2.35 that's including the taxes. So this brings me back to the original question. How much lye and methanol is the average biodieseler using per week? Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] disolving lye
Hi there I have found a good way to mix the methoxide. The process needs some exposure to the methanol at this time. I hope to eliminate this soon. I got a stainless steal soda syrup container on e bay .5 gal cap. It has one port at the top that is above the top limit of the fluide and one port that goes to the bottom of the vessel . I took out the relief valve and put a ½ o ring then a ½ I D bronze bushing. I picked up a small paint mixer at the hardware store welded a ½ stick of round bar to the end of the mixer. After filling the vessel with methanol I add the dose of N.H.O. put the cap on and put the vessel in a large bucket of cold water. With a hand drill on the mixer I mix the stuffing out of the mix. The heat generated is quite enpresseve thus the need for the bucket of cold water. The only draw back at this time is I am doing 120 l batches = 6.35 gal of methoxide. I have been just mixing the max of methoxide and pumping raw methanol to make up the difference so for it seems to work out o.k. I dont know if I can post pictures of this on this sight but if there is any interest I would gladly send picks to those who would like. Good luck Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Kelly Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 4:52 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] disolving lye Ian, Not knowing your titration results, or if you are using WVO or virgin oil, I will throw in my 1.5 cents. I think the difficulty in dissolving lye in methanol is a matter of the amount of lye needed to be dissolved/liter of methanol. Dissolving 3.5g/L for virgin oil is easy enough. However, each additional gram of lye needed to neutralize the FFA's in WVO seems to double the time needed to dissolve it. Another thing to consider is the methodused to dissolve the lye in the methanol. I use a 5 gallon carboy (19L). The 6L of methanol needed for a 30L batch leaves plenty of room for agitating the solution.If such a system is used for larger (50L) batches, the container is more than half full andIcan onlyswirl the mix gently. Maybe you are using very high quality oil or have a better method for dissolving your lye. Whatever you are doing,the resultssound good to me. Tom - Original Message - From: Ian Theresa Sims To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 3:24 AM Subject: [Biofuel] disolving lye Hi all Most of the recipe's on JtFdescribe hours to dissolved the lye in methanol.Mine usually takes about 20 minute to half an hour. I use translucent bottles and check for settled lye. Is there something I am missing?When I mix it I poor the Lye into the methanol and swirl it for a minute or two , leave it for ten minutes or so,swirl some more until its all gone.The BD I make has clean seperation and is easy to wash. The same goes for either a 1L or30 L batch. Cheers Ian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Appleseed methanol recovery
What size tubing do you use? I think 1/2''is the largest I have gotten before. I use brake line for air brakes very durable stuff. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:00 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Appleseed methanol recovery So far is hasn't gotten brittle and broken - it just gets harder and becomes cloudy. Derick Giorchino wrote: I haven't had that problem yet. I also use clear poly fiber reinforced hose and it seems to get soft instead maybe there is a combination of both the nylon and the poly so it wouldn't get hard or soft. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 6:21 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Appleseed methanol recovery I've used nylon too - it seems to work ok but hardens up after a while. Derick Giorchino wrote: I have been using nylon tubing for lots of stuff it seems to take a lickin with no ill effects. You just need to keep it from extreme heat. But I have found it will take full vacuum and burst pressure at 100 deg f is over 150 psi. good luck Derick. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] FW: GOOD RESULTS FINALLY
Hi all Iwould like to thank you all for the good info and increment over the last months. If it weren't for all the help I would have failed at this and a hate to fail at anything. After lots of bad tests batches and a few large batches.I have found my errors at least most of them and there is room for improvement, mostly in the process end.I find myself doing lots of swapping of hoses pumps and heat sources. but now I have done 4 120 liter batches the first was a failure start to finish the second seemed to be good then in the wash I found it not so good. The third waslooking good but whenI ran the second test as 3.5 gr per liter with 10% methanol there was a small amount of glycerin that fell out. Although I did the titration three times (the Dr pepper method) . The last batch I did the titration = 4.5 gr per liter + 3.5 =8 gr pL 4 1/2 liter tests 1@ 7 gpl nothing .1 @ 7.5 gpl some separation but not enough and at 8 gpl good separation yet there was unreached glycerin after doing the quality test. At 8.5 gpl good separation and quality test came out good 120 liters later the whole process has taken much less time than I expected or experienced before and the quality is good . Thank you all. Now for the bad news. Imay have missed the news here. F.Y.I. After some research I have found that red devil lye is no longer available to the stores all the sources I used in the past are out of it and will not be getting any more. Red Devil has discontinued distribution of the product. so if you use it for your fuel or know someone that does grab all you can when you see it. there are sources for lye on the net but it is more expensive and it would need to be shipped in. not so convient for us yet not catastrophic. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Appleseed methanol recovery
I haven't had that problem yet. I also use clear poly fiber reinforced hose and it seems to get soft instead maybe there is a combination of both the nylon and the poly so it wouldn't get hard or soft. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 6:21 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Appleseed methanol recovery I've used nylon too - it seems to work ok but hardens up after a while. Derick Giorchino wrote: I have been using nylon tubing for lots of stuff it seems to take a lickin with no ill effects. You just need to keep it from extreme heat. But I have found it will take full vacuum and burst pressure at 100 deg f is over 150 psi. good luck Derick. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Appleseed methanol recovery
I have been using nylon tubing for lots of stuff it seems to take a lickin with no ill effects. You just need to keep it from extreme heat. But I have found it will take full vacuum and burst pressure at 100 deg f is over 150 psi. good luck Derick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of magic Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 4:54 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Appleseed methanol recovery Hello all, I have lurked on the list for many months... I am building my own version of an appleseed based processor. I am looking at methanol recovery, and was wondering what I can use (flexible tubing) for the methanol? My thought is to recover the methanol via applying a vacuum to the system. Lowes carries high pressure hoses (I think for pressure washers) which I believe would withstand the vacuum, but unsure if the hose itself would react poorly with the methanol. (They don't know what the hose is made of, as they aren't provided that information.) Assistance appreciated. Thanks, S ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Steam catapult assisted take off
I saw I article on the history channel about this machine marvels was the heading but there are lots of those shows. I think you can get the articles on line. All I can remember at this time is that the brits were the inventors. Good luck with the search. Derick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:04 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Steam catapult assisted take off Hi guys, Interesting thread on the jetliner fuel consumption comparisons. For the record, I don't have a car, I walk everywhere but if I'm in a hurry I take the bus or train, in Switzerland the buses and trains are mainly electric and nearly all electricity is hydro here :) And I'm not particularly fond of flying :-p Now something a little different. 1. Does anyone know how the steam catapults on an aircraft carrier used to shoot the planes off works? 2. What speeds to they get the planes up to? 3. What are its limits? ie max speed attainable or efficient distance of operation. If anyone knows about this stuff any info is appreciated. 'nother idea ;) Thanks Jay ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] windfall tax on big oil
Have no fear big brother will figure a way to filter a large % or possibly all of the revenues for some new pay hike or something stupid. Something like social security or road tax on California fuel doesn't go where it is designated. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alt.EnergyNetwork Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 8:20 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] windfall tax on big oil Consumers feel gouged on gas: poll - U.S. drivers cry foul and support oil-company tax http://tinyurl.com/8m6pp Consumers feel gouged on gas: poll U.S. drivers cry foul and support oil-company tax SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- A majority of Americans are convinced they're being gouged at the gas pump, and many support a tax on oil companies' profits to fund research into alternative energy sources, according to a new survey. Eighty-seven percent of U.S. consumers said oil companies are gouging them on gas prices, according to the telephone survey of 1,019 adults in mid-September by Opinion Research Corp. for the Civil Society Institute, a Newton Centre, Mass.-based non-profit advocacy group. The Institute, funded by donations and foundation grants, supports a variety of initiatives, including 40mpg.org, which aims to make 40 miles per gallon the standard for all U.S. cars. Another 7% said very little price gouging is going on, 4% said it's not happening at all, and 3% weren't sure. The survey has a margin of error of plus, or minus, 3 percentage points at a 95% confidence level. The belief in price gouging was consistent across party lines, with 82% of Republicans pointing to some or a great deal of price gouging, 91% of Democrats doing so, and 87% of independents. Many consumers appear ready to gouge right back: 79% of those surveyed said they support a tax on oil company's profits if the money collected goes to research on alternative energy sources. That sentiment crossed political lines to a large extent, with 83% of Democrats, 76% of Republicans and 81% of independents supporting such a tax to fuel research on alternative energy sources. But there was less overall support for such a tax to fund other initiatives: Just 53% of the respondents support a tax on oil company profits to fund a direct rebate to U.S. drivers, while 70% support the tax to fund wetlands restoration in the Gulf Coast to lessen damage from future hurricanes. (The survey offered only those three possible purposes for the hypothetical tax revenues.) Confluence of factors Consumers' cry of price gouging, and apparent willingness to embrace alternative energy sources appears sparked by a confluence of factors, said Pam Solo, president and founder of the Civil Society Institute, in a telephone press conference. There are several strains of concern converging for people, she said, including steeply higher gas prices, the U.S.'s reliance on foreign oil, and global warming. Americans have seen ... too little action from Washington on energy prices, fuel-efficient vehicles and the dangers of too much reliance on foreign oil, Solo said. And oil company profits aren't helping consumers feel warm and fuzzy, she said. We all know somebody is getting quite wealthy over the dilemmas and troubles we're facing as a country, she said. We should be able to share in those profits as a society to have greater control of our destiny as a country. Meanwhile, 81% of those surveyed agreed with the statement that the federal government isn't doing enough about high energy prices and U.S. dependence on Middle Eastern energy sources. Broken down across political parties: 74% of Republicans agreed the federal government isn't doing enough, as did 90% of Democrats and 83% of independents. Let's go hybrid When asked whether domestic car makers should follow Toyota's lead by including hybrid technology in all new cars going forward, 80% of consumers agreed, according to the survey. Eighty-six percent of Democrats agreed domestic makers should focus on hybrid technology, as did 73% of Republicans, and 80% of Independents. The visible success of hybrid cars may be leading more consumers to see alternative technologies as one part of a solution to the problem of high gas prices, Solo and her colleagues at the Institute said. Support for hybrid technology was strongest in the West, with 87% of consumers saying car makers should pursue all-hybrid fleets, compared with 82% in the Northeast, 79% in the Midwest, and 77% in the South. Some consumers also support the idea of higher fuel-efficiency standards for regular cars, with 48% of those surveyed saying recent gas price hikes make it much more important that the federal government take steps to require higher fuel-efficiency standards. Twenty-four percent said gas costs make it somewhat more important that the government address fuel-efficiency standards, but 19% said higher
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol handling tips needed
Heater elements are available from grainger industrial supply or mcmastercarr.com ether stainless steel or well elements for chemicals. But be prepared they ant cheep. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 8:44 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol handling tips needed Try www.omega.com for stainless heater elements. Joe Zeke Yewdall wrote: How about standard water heater elements? You might be able to getstainless steel ones for the higher quality tanks, or if not, thecheap ones are only about $10, so replace them every 10 batches orsomething. I know, throwing away stuff is not what we are going forhere, but it's an idea to get it started till you can find somethingbetter.ZekeOn 9/21/05, Darryl West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys,I am at the same point as you John trying to get a 5 Gallon processor going.I have found getting a submersible heating element a hassle. Can anyonesuggest a place to get an old (or maybe new) element as I have looked aroundand haven't come across anything! (I am most likely looking in the wrongplaces)CheersDarryl-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Keith AddisonSent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:33 PMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol handling tips neededHello John Greetings,I'm finally finding the time to make a processor, but find myselfhanging on a couple of points. First off I'm just going withsomething that resembles the 5gal processor listed on JTF to start.The problem is that I'm not grasping the process in handling themethanol and lye properly. The idea of forcing air into the methoxidetank thus forcing methoxide out other tube into processor makes sence.I just dont see where/how the methanol and lye are measured andplaced into mixing container to begin with. Use translucent HDPE containers for mixing methanol and mark them atthe required volume. Use the air pump to pump methanol out of thecontainer it comes in into the mixing container to the requiredvolume. Weight out the lye (or KOH), we measure it out into plasticbags on the scales (adjusted for the weight of the bag) so thatthere's minimal exposure to the air and moisture in the air. Then addit to the methanol mixing container. Opening the lid for this purposewon't expose you to fumes as the methanol is at room temperature andit's not being agitated. We use a funnel made from the top of a2-litre PET bottle (the kind you buy water in) to pour the KOH infrom its plastic bag. Mix it this way: Methoxide the easy wayhttp://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymethThen pump it into the processor with the air-pump. So, I'm looking forpointers on how others measure and handle these to get them into mixtank. Additonally, I'm not sure what to use for heating element(electric at this point) so would appreciate any insight on this aswell. With the 5-gal processor type you're more or less confined toelectric heating, those cans don't last very long with an open flameunder them. You can only use an open heat source for pre-heating theoil anyway - no more open flames as soon as there's any methanolinvolved. Maybe a heat exchanger would do, but that would probably bea bit of a hassle in only a 5-gal can. Get a submersion heatingelement, stainless steel, about 1.5 kw should do or maybe less. Tryto get one that fits (unlike ours!).Best wishesKeith Thanks,John ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol
Hi hakan You are absolutely right I didn't mention the MTBE and probably should have. I agree that the MTBE needed to go but this hasn't been earth braking news for some time. It just took the state a long time to step up and replace it. The discussions I have seen or herd on what ever media. Is that if you used one gal of raw gasoline and that will give you lets say 10 mpg and say 500 ppm hydro carbons exct. But if you use 1 gal of ethanol blend you could only get say 8 mpg with 450 ppm hydro carbons.( These #s I just pulled out of the sky) There just to explain the point. This to me is the equivalent of outlawing the newer formula of lead free oil base paints, bug poison, and much more, that would take 2 applications and last for a decade. And replacing it with latex that will take several coats not work as well and need to be done 3 or more times in the same time period. Is it better to use a better product 1 time or use the other several times? With a net pollution of the same or maybe a little more or less? (Just food for thought) Derick Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hakan Falk Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 2:09 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Derick, I think that you are mixing up the ethanol as MTBE replacement with the general biofuel discussion. To replace MTBE is an absolute necessity, since its environmental effects are devastating. E5 to E10 have total support, even from the oil companies who is trying to escape from the liabilities of using MTBE. Hakan At 02:02 22/08/2005, you wrote: Hi. We here in the peoples republic of California are forced to run our gas cars on ethanol blends. The argument has been made that ethanol doesn't burn as well as gas thus causing less pollutants and less gas mileage per gal offsetting the advantages of fuel blending. Since the cars are designed for gasoline not alcohol there is a loss in net mileage. Jtf has a good section on alcohol as fuel it may be better for you to look at that as an alternative. Good luck Derick -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James A. Eckman Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 9:21 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Ethanol I am new to the list and one reason for joining is to find out if there is anyplace in northeast Ohio where I can buy ethanol.Since most cars on the road can use at least E10 blend any help would be appreciated. I am looking for something I can do immediately in addition to driving more carefully to reduce our oil addiction. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol
Hi. We here in the peoples republic of California are forced to run our gas cars on ethanol blends. The argument has been made that ethanol doesnt burn as well as gas thus causing less pollutants and less gas mileage per gal offsetting the advantages of fuel blending. Since the cars are designed for gasoline not alcohol there is a loss in net mileage. Jtf has a good section on alcohol as fuel it may be better for you to look at that as an alternative. Good luck Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of James A. Eckman Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 9:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Ethanol I am new to the list and one reason for joining is to find out if there is anyplace in northeast Ohio where I can buy ethanol.Since most cars on the road can use at least E10 blendany help would be appreciated. I am looking for something I can do immediately in addition to driving more carefully to reduceour oil addiction. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [Biofuel] Chemical engineer's letter and bioeng
In my opinion. Since the dawn of time science and scientists have been considered quacks. The persistent have succeeded on one level or another. If you dont try you cant succeed. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Michael Redler Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 5:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chemical engineer's letter and bioeng How can I respond to the negative email below? ...with persistence. Good luck! Mike Pannirselvam P.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HI Without the colaborative information exchange and dadta base information on biofuel both chemical and bioenginerring people are wasting the money in research not only in USA , but also in the developing country too as an academic curiosity to make patent and publish papers .Hence Mari the e mail has some fact for all the members to think about . Any research need sound chemical logic as well as economical objetive . Ethanol via biochemical route compared chemical syntysis seem to be very practical one . sd Pannirselvam On 8/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HELP! How can I respond to the negative email below? It's from a chemical engineer friend researching ethanol from cellulose. I sent him some info from this list to help his research, and was surprised by the anger. Anyone have specific things I can say in response? The email: Hi Marilyn Those guys are out in left field. From my perspective -- having followed and evaluated various biomass gasification processes (technology and economics) for 27 years -- is that the Bioengineering Resources guys are opportunistic promoters -- looking for suckers (e.g., U.S. DOE or some naive investors with money to waste). The technology is neither prove nor economical. And who needs more vinegar (dilute acetic acid). Fermentation of synthesis gas to acetic acid is nonsense. Producing synthesis gas from biomass is itself unproven at any significant scale (not even in a decent pilot plant) -- and if it could be achieved, would be very expensive relative to other options for producing synthesis gas. FYI -- Synthesis gas is a mixture of hydrogen and carbon monoxide, which can be reacted over various catalysts at elevated temperatures to produce many different products -- such as alcohols, hydrocarbons, and various oxygenated organic compounds. The synthesis gas first has to be purified (made extremely clean), and the H2/CO ratio also has to be adjusted for the specific application. After the synthesis, further processing is usually required. Most of these assorted biomass energy promoters (and I have seen many come and go over 27 years) don't understand chemical engineering, process economics, resource availability/supply/transportation economics, etc., etc. Yet every every 5-10 years a new generation of biomass advocates and promoters emerge (or are otherwise born into the light) who don't know their asses from first base -- but think that biomass will save the world -- and so promote all kinds of technically dumb and uneconomical ideas -- and make life miserable for the people who are doing reasonable work. They all stroke each other and keep each other going and feeling self-righteous. This whole business is too complicated and emotion-ridden for the biomass zealots (and apparently for me too) for me to begin discussing the many dimensions of it in an e-mail. I personally favor the idea of exploiting biomass (intelligently) as a renewable energy resource -- and think that we can be utilizing it. However, a lot has to change (mostly politically, socially, economically, educationally, etc.) for that to ever happen. The cause is not helped by promoters of dumb ideas. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- Pagandai V Pannirselvam Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CT Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence : AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacio EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210 32171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular8488145083 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and
Re: [Biofuel] FW: a problem
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 7:33 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] FW: a problem Hi keith Sorry to be a pain. Do you think I could use the solid I had left in the reactor and just add more wvo heat and mix it and then do titration on that as a batch so as not to waste more stuff? Or am I just digging a bigger hole? Thanks Derick ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] FW: a problem
Thanks Keith After reading your reply I have a sinking feeling. Maybe my filling in the blanks will help you help me. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 12:26 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] FW: a problem Hi Derick Hi all Uh, Houston... im not sure but I may have a problem. after many disappointing test batches I finally got several good test batches. I now moved on to a large batch using the same w v o used in the test batches. there was almost instant separation Sorry, what's that mean? Do you mean what they call a split? Yes I guess it I mean as the met oxide was added it turned murky for a few min and then quickly started to clarify and thin out. It changes quite suddenly from WVO to esters, or most of it does anyway. It's the rest of it that's the problem though. and as I have read mixing should be continued for 2 hours. so I left the mixer going for 2.5 hours. Movable feast. The variables are the amount of methanol used, the Amount of lye used, the processing temperature, The amount of the met oxide was total 10 grams per liter and 20% methanol the temp was maintained at 130 to 140 deg f depending on where I put the thermometer on the drum I use a digital lazar thermometer Agitation and the duration of agitation, and it's the last two that agitation was quite vigorous I had to tie the drill to a post and clamp the lid to stop it from spinning Might not translate so easily from a one-litre test batch to a 130-litre batch. The agitation was quite vigorous I had to tie the drill to a post and clamp the lid to stop it from spinning Anyway that sounds okay. There's been some fuss about a reverse reaction when you process it for too long, but if anything that would perhaps be a minor concern for later, when you're fine-tuning it. IMHO. buy that time it was late at night and I needed to get some sleep. I left the batch for 8 hours and before I left for work I figured I would try to drain the glycerin from the bottom of my 55 gal galvanized reactor vessel. it was a block. Did it solidify in the test-batches you did with that oil? Yes it did. It should have done. Not that it should solidify necessarily, but if it solidified in the one then it should do in the other too. See: How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid? I did read this and I know that there is no set amount. I just felt there was s much, thats why I asked all of you. I will call you experts. But I am merely a novas. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#howmuchglyc More important is how much soap there is -- the more soap, the more likely the by-product layer will solidify, no matter what oil you Used.. Im not to concerned about the solids I only wish I had started earlier so I could have drained it off before it got solid. Eight hours is on the quick side for settling, by the way. So how do you let it sit for longer without getting a brick in the bottom? After work I pumped the top layer off to a wash tank. The solid mass at the bottom of the reactor was much more that I had expected it should be from 130 liters w v o I had aprox 15 gal of solid. Is it me or is there way to much solid left from what I started with? About twice as much as there would be if you got a 100% yield. We'd Need to know how much lye you used and the titration results. Titration was 5 using the world famous chopstick method. With a total of 10 grams per liter @ 20% methanol by volume. Now I have done the first wash using the bubble wash metherd. I know I over did it to much air to fast i have 35 gal for blended oil and water. You shouldn't be able to achieve that with bubble-washing, no matter how much air or how fast. I have separated some and heated it to 140 deg F and held it for a few hours. When I get home ill see the results. If this didn't work what should i try? I have read on the postings about salt and vinegar im not sure what ether is supposed to do or what one to try. I suggest you read the whole page: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html I thought I had at least 3 times, Ill look again maybe I missed something or allot. Washing: Journey to Forever Why bother? Which way is best? Mist-washing Bubble washing Stir washing Settling Recycling the wash-water Washing temperature Emulsions Using acid Wash-water disposal Drying the fuel Any input could help. Well I got home and there was little progress with the heat. Two problems: 1. How to rescue the batch. 2. How to get it right next time. We should be able to help you solve them both, I hope. Please tell us how you get on. Best wishes Keith thanks. Derick ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
RE: [Biofuel] biofuel and Dodge
Im very new at this. But I have had one really good batch so far and lots of bad tests. But I ran my 04 24valve on the 15 gal I had better mileage than dino and I feel better performance. About 95% bio in the tank. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Miles Dave Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 9:33 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] biofuel and Dodge I would like to get some input from some of you Dodge Cummins owners about how your trucks are running on biodiesel.What % biodiesel are you running and how long have you been running biodiesel? Any problems? What effect if any on fuel mileage. I own a 2001 Dodge with a H.O. 24 valve Cummins and I would like to run 100% biodiesel That has beenwashed and dried . I would appreciate any input. thanks, Dave ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] FW: a problem
Hi keith I understand what you're saying. No the drum is not sealed air tight but it is closed I used 1/4 flat steel plate 4 larger than the drum diameter. I drilled a pilot hole in the top and put pillow block bearings one on the inside and one on the outside to hold the mixing paddle straight up and down also seals the fumes in the drum. And I have the end of the shaft 14 above that. Bear in mind if the process works I will build a much more professional mixer using a sealed motor. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 7:33 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] FW: a problem Hello Derick Thanks Keith After reading your reply I have a sinking feeling. Maybe my filling in the blanks will help you help me. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 12:26 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] FW: a problem Hi Derick Hi all Uh, Houston... im not sure but I may have a problem. after many disappointing test batches I finally got several good test batches. I now moved on to a large batch using the same w v o used in the test batches. there was almost instant separation Sorry, what's that mean? Do you mean what they call a split? Yes I guess it I mean as the met oxide was added it turned murky for a few min and then quickly started to clarify and thin out. It changes quite suddenly from WVO to esters, or most of it does anyway. It's the rest of it that's the problem though. and as I have read mixing should be continued for 2 hours. so I left the mixer going for 2.5 hours. Movable feast. The variables are the amount of methanol used, the Amount of lye used, the processing temperature, The amount of the met oxide was total 10 grams per liter and 20% methanol the temp was maintained at 130 to 140 deg f depending on where I put the thermometer on the drum I use a digital lazar thermometer Agitation and the duration of agitation, and it's the last two that agitation was quite vigorous I had to tie the drill to a post and clamp the lid to stop it from spinning Might not translate so easily from a one-litre test batch to a 130-litre batch. The agitation was quite vigorous I had to tie the drill to a post and clamp the lid to stop it from spinning You're using a drill for agitating a 130-litre batch? Unsecured? And the processor isn't properly closed? Lots of methanol fumes at 130 to 140 deg F and drill motors spark. NOT recommended! You're probably losing methanol due to fuming as well so your process isn't going far enough and the by-product is thicker than it should be. Anyway that sounds okay. There's been some fuss about a reverse reaction when you process it for too long, but if anything that would perhaps be a minor concern for later, when you're fine-tuning it. IMHO. buy that time it was late at night and I needed to get some sleep. I left the batch for 8 hours and before I left for work I figured I would try to drain the glycerin from the bottom of my 55 gal galvanized reactor vessel. it was a block. Did it solidify in the test-batches you did with that oil? Yes it did. It should have done. Not that it should solidify necessarily, but if it solidified in the one then it should do in the other too. See: How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid?I did read this Did you read all of it? Sorry I must have skimmed and stopped after I found the specific info I was looking for. But Now I have. Other factors: * Excess methanol makes the by-product layer thinner * Too much lye creates excess soap * Potassium hydroxide (KOH) makes the by-product slightly thinner than sodium hydroxide (NaOH). and I know that there is no set amount. I just felt there was s much, that's why I asked all of you. I will call you experts. Everybody's learning, no experts. But I am merely a novas. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#howmuchglyc More important is how much soap there is -- the more soap, the more likely the by-product layer will solidify, no matter what oil you Used.. I'm not to concerned about the solids I only wish I had started earlier so I could have drained it off before it got solid. Eight hours is on the quick side for settling, by the way. So how do you let it sit for longer without getting a brick in the bottom? We don't use NaOH-sodium hydroxide, we use KOH, potassium hydroxide, so the glycerine by-product is always liquid. However, even when we were using NaOH, IIRC we only got solid by-product twice, in the very early days before we learnt to control the process properly. It was solid because we used too much lye. Just as you're doing. Do you mean that the titration # should be ... + 3.5 gpl instead of 5 gpl. I wondered about that when I read it on the chopstick method it was quite
RE: [Biofuel] RE: WVO Filtration
Hi mike they are available new not cheep in lots of sizes at mcmastercarr.com be aware it is necessary to buy or build a stand. I made my own. Very inexpensive to do. Good luck Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:15 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: WVO Filtration Hi, Where did you get these tanks? 45 gallon opaque plastic tanks with a cone shaped bottom. and a valve in the bottom of the cone. thanks, Mike John Wilson wrote: The way I filter the WVO is I leave it in the collection barrell or in some cases the orginal containers for a week in a warm place. In the summer, the container is exposed to the sun to heat the oil and allow for better seperation. I then decant the container and pour the liquid through the steel cone filter that the restaurants use when they strain the oil. I don't try to strain the junk in the bottom of the bucket. That stuff I will mix with sawdust and try burning it in my wood stove this winter. Beneath that cone filter is a funnel to which I have added a wire mesh to keep the funnel neck from plugging with the nylon stocking that I have streched over the funnel. I then pump the liquid using a ten micron hydraulic filter. I have a series of settling tanks which I am presently gearing up. When finished the WVO will be filtered into the first tank. They are 45 gallon opaque plastic tanks with a cone shaped bottom. and a valve in the bottom of the cone. Holes will be drilled through the sides of the tanks just above the cone.The three to four tanks will be attached in a series with plastic pipe. The last tank is the tank that I will be taking the WVO for use from with a tap on the side of teh tank above the cone.. Any junk or settlement will be drained out the bottom of the cone with the bottom valves. Yours truly John Wilson *** Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve Goldens Ph-Fax (902)665-2386) Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm Pups: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM . After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone. ^ Nova Scotia going smoke-free in public by 2006 (FANTASTIC) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] FW:
Hi all im not sure but I may have a problem. after many disappointing test batches I finally got several good test batches. I now moved on to a large batch using the same w v o used in the test batches. there was almost instant separation and as I have read mixing should be continued for 2 hours. so I left the mixer going for 2.5 hours. buy that time it was late at night and I needed to get some sleep. I left the batch for 8 hours and before I left for work I figured I would try to drain the glycerin from the bottom of my 55 gal galvanized reactor vessel. it was a block. After work I pumped the top layer off to a wash tank. The solid mass at the bottom of the reactor was much more that I had expected it should be from 130 liters w v o I had aprox 15 gal of solid. Is it me or is there way to much solid left from what I started with? Now I have done the firstwash usingthe bubble wash metherd. I know I over did it to much air to fast i have 35 gal for blended oil and water. I have separated some and heated it to 140 deg F and held it for a few hours. When I get home ill see the results. If this didnt work what should i try? I have read on the postings about salt and vinegar im not sure what ether is supposed to do or what one to try. Any input could help. Well I got home and there was little progress with the heat. thanks. Derick ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Diesel Pick Up Trucks
Hi Greg Not to jump in but I did a engine swap last year in my 1985 motor home. It started with a 440cid gas motor 727 gas trans. I put in a 5.9 liter turbo Cummins. Bear in mind 35 ft 18900 lbs of motor home with the gas motor would go 75 mph in a blink. But had a heck of a time climbing very steep grades. After the change was much slower to get up to speed and 65 to 70 was the max speed it just ran out of governor. But it would climb like a Billy goat. The trick is the rear end ratio. Good luck. Derrick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Wireless Data Transfer Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:50 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Diesel Pick Up Trucks The 6.9L HP rating is near to the one of the 302 (5.0L), but the TORQUE figure is huge! The 5.0-litre was rated 185-205 hp, the 6.9 litre diesel V8 was rated at 170hp , with torque 330-390 pounds-feet,and the 7.3-litre diesel V8 was rated 185-210 hp., with torque 360-425 pounds-feet.What suffers here are theuniversal joints! :-) So, replacing the gas 5.0 for the 6.9 will feel almost the same. In the case you REALLY need more punch Gale Banks makes a turbo for the 6.9, which increases HP at least 20% and torque up to 30%. There was also a companyI can't recall the name, which made a system called HyperMax Pulse, or something like it. Just remember, for towing, the torque of the 6.9 will have no match, but it might feel kind of slow while taking offfrom a dead stop.It just a matter of getting used on how and when to shift, if standard tranny is used.If the auto is going to be used, then you will see no difference, and you can always adjust the kickdown to suit your driving habits. What will be better, and sorry here if you are a hard core Ford lover, is to replace the whole drivetrain (engine-tranny) with a Chevy 6.2 diesel mated to a 4speed 700R4 tranny, which has a more than adequate 1st gear, while the 4th is an overdrive, for ease of highway driving and better fuel economy.There are a big number of company that might provide you with whatever is required for such swap.Advance Adapters is one of those. - Original Message - From: Greg and April To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Diesel Pick Up Trucks What size of enginecan the 6.9L replace? I havea85Grand Marquewith a defunct 5L engine. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Wireless Data Transfer To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 21:24 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Diesel Pick Up Trucks If I'm correct, Ford first used a diesel on their pick up line on '82, it was the 6.9liter made by International(Navistar) which evolved later to the 7.3liter.If a recall allright, it is a direct bolt-on swap, those diesel should mate any Ford transmission, standard or auto (for the auto, the C6 is recommended).The engine mounts might be slighlty different, but a visit to the local Ford parts dealer should help you find the adequate engine-to-frame mounts. - Original Message - From: DERICK GIORCHINO To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 4:09 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Diesel Pick Up Trucks Ford did as dodge does. For years ford installed international harvester engines in there trucks and vans but represented them as a ford product. Dont get me wrong they were good engines but I never saw a turbo unit. Im not sure when ford came out with there powerstroke. Dodge has always used Cummins ether 12 or 24 valve also very strong good engines. Good luck Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of aidan, cathy brad Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 11:38 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Diesel Pick Up Trucks we have a Ford '72 F250 that has really low mileage on it and were considering a diesel conversion. how far back did Ford make diesels for their trucks (assuming that they do.) any input would be appreciated. On Saturday, August 13, 2005, at 11:34 AM, Tom Irwin wrote: Hi All, It looks like I´m finally going redneck and buying my first pickup truck. Of course, it will be a diesel. I was looking at used Chevy S-10´s, particularly the double cabin variety as I have two small kids. I´m looking for a tough, long lasting vehicle that I can haul building materials, worm bins, bagged vermicompost, and drums of waste oil and ethanol.I´d also be using it to get my wife and I to work and the kids to school. I´m not interested in something sexy, I married her. I need a working vehicle. Anysuggestions out there. Of the vehicles I saw in the archives, there were things like hybrids that I really don´t think I need. Any Brazilian pickups that run on straight ethanolI would certainly consider.It´s just
RE: [Biofuel] Diesel Pick Up Trucks
Ford did as dodge does. For years ford installed international harvester engines in there trucks and vans but represented them as a ford product. Dont get me wrong they were good engines but I never saw a turbo unit. Im not sure when ford came out with there powerstroke. Dodge has always used Cummins ether 12 or 24 valve also very strong good engines. Good luck Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of aidan, cathy brad Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 11:38 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Diesel Pick Up Trucks we have a Ford '72 F250 that has really low mileage on it and were considering a diesel conversion. how far back did Ford make diesels for their trucks (assuming that they do.) any input would be appreciated. On Saturday, August 13, 2005, at 11:34 AM, Tom Irwin wrote: Hi All, It looks like I´m finally going redneck and buying my first pickup truck. Of course, it will be a diesel. I was looking at used Chevy S-10´s, particularly the double cabin variety as I have two small kids. I´m looking for a tough, long lasting vehicle that I can haul building materials, worm bins, bagged vermicompost, and drums of waste oil and ethanol.I´d also be using it to get my wife and I to work and the kids to school. I´m not interested in something sexy, I married her. I need a working vehicle. Anysuggestions out there. Of the vehicles I saw in the archives, there were things like hybrids that I really don´t think I need. Any Brazilian pickups that run on straight ethanolI would certainly consider.It´s just that I´m planning on generating my own electricity and heating my house with a diesel generator. It doesn´t really make much sense to me at this point to go ethanol. Thanks, Tom Irwin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Running on WVO
Do you mean new or new to you? The late model Cummins has a electronic common rail injection system and should not be used with w v o. Check out www.greasecar.com there are others but I don't remember the address. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of stephan torak Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 3:51 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Running on WVO Hi Andy, and all the other Jeep Liberty Diesel prospective buyers I have one (only about 1500 mi) and here is my opinion. it is a good car, but I expected it to run a bit more economical in other words it is a borderline guzzler. Space is sufficient for 4 even 5 passengers, cargo room is ok but not overwhelming. According to an article the US models were shipped with 5% biodiesel in the tank, but the owner's documentation says nothing about biodiesel. It says a lot of things fuelrelated about the gasoline models but to my surprise the docs make no peep about BD. Understandably I only run a max of 20 % BD and it is not complaining at all. No oxygen or who knows what sensor has yet complained It has a Cat and I wasn't yet able to find out if there are potential problems (long term) running BD. It also specifies to use synthetic oil for the Jeep, but the price difference nowadays makes that one easy to swallow. Personally, I would NOT EVEN THINK about converting the Jeep to run on WVO because the common rail design's efficiency depends completely on the viscosity of the fuel. Also, the computer and the multi port injection is far too sophisticated to mess with. I'd go with the Cummins, and a used one, too. That's just my opinion good luck and regards, Stephan in balmy Hawaii. Andy Karpay wrote: Hi all. I am relatively new to the list, and enjoy all the topics. Some mighty thoughtful folks in the group. I am currently running a 1981 Mercedes 300SD on filtered WVO. It runs great, and my wife swears it even runs better than on dino fuel. I am looking to purchase a newer vehicle to operate for my job which involves traveling about 3000 miles per month (sales). I live in Florida so heating has not been an issue (yet) and I have calculated that by using between 10% to 50% dino diesel (depending on ambient temperature) it'll be more cost effective than having to make the biodiesel year round. I figure December, January, February I can run 50-50, then increase WVO content as the spring and summer arrive. It has worked well so far and am looking to perhaps purchase a new or newer vehicle for that purpose. My dilemma is whether to buy a Dodge 2500 with the Cummins, which is way more vehicle than I really need, (but I like the engine) or (what else is there?). I recently looked at the Chrysler Jeep Liberty with the diesel engine. It would seem to fulfill all my needs. Since this is the first year out for them there are uncertainties, but does anyone know about the chances of good operation with WVO on this vehicle/engine? Andy Karpay - Tampa FL ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
Hi Pannirselvam it would be better if it could remain in that stat when it gets hot could be messy if it were in a back pack and melted. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Tan Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 6:13 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel HI there Pannirselvam, Interesting to note that jelly solid ethanol has the attention of the UN. Is there anywhere I can extract this literature? Thanks. Jeff MALAYSIA From: Pannirselvam P.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 13:22:32 -0300 Hi D Giorchino The mess you have made can be a new dicovery of solid biofuel . jelly solid ethanol has good market as the future biofuel for rural areas as identified by UN. Try to acess about the possbility of mixing your mess with ethanol jelly fuel.Thus the big problem of disposing the mess can be an aportunity to make business. Fell free to have help from this list as all here very good experts Yours truely Pannirselvam P.V Federal university ,Natal.RN Brasil On 8/7/05, DERICK GIORCHINO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Keith More Thanks for you response. I tried the world famous chop stick titration technique. Wow what a difference in my titration #. I did a 1 ltr test in a soda bottle, with excellent result almost instantly. But here is where I got into trouble. The next batch was 20 liters I had some methoxide mixed from a prior batch that was also a failure and I couldn't figure what to do with the toxic mix so I tried to dilute it to 10 g.p. liter. I did my mixing of the 20 liters. As it cooled it turned into what looks like lard. I felt that I may have overdosed it. So I then took some test bottles and put 20% failure oil and 75% fresh wvo set it in the sun to melt/ liquefy. (105 deg F) shook it hard also a 50/50 mix in the hot state it seamed to separate better 25/75 than the 50/50 but as the sun went down and it cooled the 25/75 started to jell and the glycerol layer vanished but the 50/50 looked much better with a glycerol layer jelled at the bottom. I m not asking for a fix. But is the jelly a typical sign of over dosing? I have a problem with disposing of the mess I have made if there is a way to salvage it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:58 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution Hi Derick May be there is some help for me out there. I have made lots and lots of test batches. Most of them bad not good. One border line. And one 15 gal batch with fairly good results. I have used all the options given for titration in the J.T. Forever. Test strips work ... poorly, if at all, and are not recommended by JtF. but after introducing it to the mix I find if I need to add more solution the color will not change so I need to add strip after strip as I add the solution accuracy is probably off by the time I get done P.H. meter a good one I found to be about the same pH meters work well, especially if it's a good one, you shouldn't be having problems. and I have used phenolphthalein and get excellent response but im no chemist Very few of us are. can anyone tell me how much phenolphthalein to use on the test I have been using 2 drops @ 1% phenolphthalein. The instructions from J.T.F say use 1% phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%). If you can please help. Thanks Derick You say: The instructions from J.T.F say use 1% phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%). The instructions at JtF say: Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Dissolve 1 gm of lye in 1 litre of distilled water (0.1% w/v lye solution). In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of the cooled oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until the solution starts to turn pink and stays that way for 10 seconds. -- From: Biodiesel from waste oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo See also: More about lye How much lye to use? Basic titration Better titration Accurate measurements pH meters Phenolphthalein pH meters vs phenolphthalein http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye Are your scales, measuring equipment and measuring techniques up to scratch? Best wishes Keith -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
RE: [Biofuel] RE: jelly
Hi Keith More Thanks for you response. I tried the world famous chop stick titration technique. Wow what a difference in my titration #. I did a 1 ltr test in a soda bottle, with excellent result almost instantly. But here is where I got into trouble. The next batch was 20 liters I had some methoxide mixed from a prior batch that was also a failure and I couldn't figure what to do with the toxic mix so I tried to dilute it to 10 g.p. liter. I did my mixing of the 20 liters. As it cooled it turned into what looks like lard. I felt that I may have overdosed it. So I then took some test bottles and put 20% failure oil and 75% fresh wvo set it in the sun to melt/ liquefy. (105 deg F) shook it hard also a 50/50 mix in the hot state it seamed to separate better 25/75 than the 50/50 but as the sun went down and it cooled the 25/75 started to jell and the glycerol layer vanished but the 50/50 looked much better with a glycerol layer jelled at the bottom. I m not asking for a fix. But is the jelly a typical sign of over dosing? I have a problem with disposing of the mess I have made if there is a way to salvage it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:58 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution Hi Derick May be there is some help for me out there. I have made lots and lots of test batches. Most of them bad not good. One border line. And one 15 gal batch with fairly good results. I have used all the options given for titration in the J.T. Forever. Test strips work ... poorly, if at all, and are not recommended by JtF. but after introducing it to the mix I find if I need to add more solution the color will not change so I need to add strip after strip as I add the solution accuracy is probably off by the time I get done P.H. meter a good one I found to be about the same pH meters work well, especially if it's a good one, you shouldn't be having problems. and I have used phenolphthalein and get excellent response but im no chemist Very few of us are. can anyone tell me how much phenolphthalein to use on the test I have been using 2 drops @ 1% phenolphthalein. The instructions from J.T.F say use 1% phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%). If you can please help. Thanks Derick You say: The instructions from J.T.F say use 1% phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%). The instructions at JtF say: Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Dissolve 1 gm of lye in 1 litre of distilled water (0.1% w/v lye solution). In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of the cooled oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until the solution starts to turn pink and stays that way for 10 seconds. -- From: Biodiesel from waste oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo See also: More about lye How much lye to use? Basic titration Better titration Accurate measurements pH meters Phenolphthalein pH meters vs phenolphthalein http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye Are your scales, measuring equipment and measuring techniques up to scratch? Best wishes Keith -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Probst, Peter Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 9:44 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution Thanks to all who provided sources and altarnatives for the phenolphthalein! Now I can start using the 75+ gallons of WVO that's been sitting around my garage. Pete ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] RE: jelly
Thanks for the response. I feel that I may not have explained that there isn't a layer it's almost a solid mass. It is about 95 deg f outside and if I turn the soda bottle on its side it slides inside the bottle as one lump retaining the shape of the bottom of the bottle. If I shake it hard it does brake up somewhat. Kind of like when the old super ball was broken. I feel that I now have super glop. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Appal Energy Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 5:51 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly But is the jelly a typical sign of over dosing? I have a problem with disposing of the mess I have made if there is a way to salvage it. Take a small sample and see how much concentrated sulfuric or phosphoric acid it takes to crack the soap portion of the top jelly layer. This is the same thing that is done with the glyc cocktail to recover the free fatty acids. Todd Swearingen DERICK GIORCHINO wrote: Hi Keith More Thanks for you response. I tried the world famous chop stick titration technique. Wow what a difference in my titration #. I did a 1 ltr test in a soda bottle, with excellent result almost instantly. But here is where I got into trouble. The next batch was 20 liters I had some methoxide mixed from a prior batch that was also a failure and I couldn't figure what to do with the toxic mix so I tried to dilute it to 10 g.p. liter. I did my mixing of the 20 liters. As it cooled it turned into what looks like lard. I felt that I may have overdosed it. So I then took some test bottles and put 20% failure oil and 75% fresh wvo set it in the sun to melt/ liquefy. (105 deg F) shook it hard also a 50/50 mix in the hot state it seamed to separate better 25/75 than the 50/50 but as the sun went down and it cooled the 25/75 started to jell and the glycerol layer vanished but the 50/50 looked much better with a glycerol layer jelled at the bottom. I m not asking for a fix. But is the jelly a typical sign of over dosing? I have a problem with disposing of the mess I have made if there is a way to salvage it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:58 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution Hi Derick May be there is some help for me out there. I have made lots and lots of test batches. Most of them bad not good. One border line. And one 15 gal batch with fairly good results. I have used all the options given for titration in the J.T. Forever. Test strips work ... poorly, if at all, and are not recommended by JtF. but after introducing it to the mix I find if I need to add more solution the color will not change so I need to add strip after strip as I add the solution accuracy is probably off by the time I get done P.H. meter a good one I found to be about the same pH meters work well, especially if it's a good one, you shouldn't be having problems. and I have used phenolphthalein and get excellent response but im no chemist Very few of us are. can anyone tell me how much phenolphthalein to use on the test I have been using 2 drops @ 1% phenolphthalein. The instructions from J.T.F say use 1% phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%). If you can please help. Thanks Derick You say: The instructions from J.T.F say use 1% phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%). The instructions at JtF say: Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Dissolve 1 gm of lye in 1 litre of distilled water (0.1% w/v lye solution). In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of the cooled oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until the solution starts to turn pink and stays that way for 10 seconds. -- From: Biodiesel from waste oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo See also: More about lye How much lye to use? Basic titration Better titration Accurate measurements pH meters Phenolphthalein pH meters vs phenolphthalein http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye Are your scales, measuring equipment and measuring techniques up to scratch? Best wishes Keith -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Probst, Peter Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 9:44 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution Thanks to all who provided sources and altarnatives for the phenolphthalein! Now I can start using the 75+ gallons of WVO that's been sitting around my garage. Pete
