Re: [biofuels-biz] Legal Obstacles for Biodiesel
And sell BioDiesel as a FUEL ADDITIVE ONLY. No federal tax. Tell users to blend it. Join the NBB, or you will have to chalk up the million dollar testing fees. http://www.biodiesel.org/ http://www.yellowbiodiesel.com/buybiodiesel.htm Steve Spence Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Legal Obstacles for Biodiesel Hello, I've been lurking for a while, and now seems a good time for an intro and a request for help. My name is Brian Jamison and I'm currently organizing the Portland Oregon Biodiesel Co-op. We're not currently producing biodiesel but soon will. I'm committed to doing everything legal and above board. I've heard rumors from small biodiesel producers (mostly homebrewers) that it is a million dollar process to get certification to sell biodiesel. I tend to doubt it. So, what is required? Paying the road taxes is easy. Blue skies, Brian Jamison Founder Portland Biodiesel Co-op http://www.gobiodiesel.com --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is a communication from World Energy about government actions against one of the few biodiesel producers in the Northeast. Be forwarned. Snip We run into a lot of small producers who are trying to do the right thing, but I would be remiss if I did not warn about the severity of cutting corners from an IRS or EPA standpoint. Any biodiesel producer or seller needs to understand that any biodiesel used (not sold)as fuel in an on-road vehicle is subject to on-road tax. We have a number of producers around the country who do not want to deal with the tax, and sell it tax exempt. This fuel does often end up in peoples vehicles. Just as you and I pay tax at the pump, it is the user who is ultimately responsible for road tax. We just had a small producer in another state in a similar situation. They own a number of diesel vehicles and have been using it for about a year. They were just hit with bill for $0.31/gallon State excise tax plus penalties and interest for every gallon they have produced. In addition, since the fuel was used in on-road vehicles, the Federal Government can (and most likely will) fine up to $10.00/gallon for every gallon used. The organization in Maine is a non-profit agency and is therefore tax exempt. They also do not sell any fuel to te outside world. Many of these small producers are yet to realize how sad the ending may be. I don't mean to sound rude or abrupt, but the tax consequences can be quite severe. I have already seen it happen once. I think we will see it happen again. _ Join the worldâs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Legal Obstacles for Biodiesel
Ah Bah! You speak as one who enjoys it too much and you forget the most honorable choice. Rebel. We canonized the men and women in our history for it, and we will in our future. It is not unproductive to turn ingenuity into tax avoidance. It saves money at least. Tax Avoidance is a right. Illegal Tax Avoidance is by definition illegal. But the wise examination of law is always a good idea. From: Michael Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Legal Obstacles for Biodiesel Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:43:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [66.218.66.106] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBF10C5C500554004319042DA426AB1EB463; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:59:08 -0700 Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2002 05:51:26 - Received: (qmail 83506 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2002 05:51:25 - Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2002 05:51:25 - Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2002 05:51:25 - Received: from [66.218.67.164] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2002 05:51:25 - Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 31 Jul 2002 04:44:11 - Received: (qmail 30133 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2002 04:44:10 - Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2002 04:44:10 - Received: from unknown (HELO web14506.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.224.69) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2002 04:44:10 - Received: from [202.12.73.6] by web14506.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:43:46 PDT From sentto-3381553-1382-1028094686-ericruttan Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:59:46 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-eGroups-Return: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-eGroups-Approved-By: doosjp [EMAIL PROTECTED] via web; 31 Jul 2002 05:51:22 - X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Apparently-To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Yahoo-Profile: tamarind39 Mailing-List: list biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com; contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: mailing list biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Now come on guys! Let's hear it for the poor old tax collectors! Their political masters want the taxes extracted without hurting those organizations who paid for them to gain office (such as oil companies and soy-bean and maize grower cartels). And let's remember that the tax-collectors have wives /husbands and kids and a mortgage and aging parents just like everyone else. Being in debt, (like most United States citizens), they can't afford to lose their job; No one loves them, (why even their own mother sometimes looks at them suspiciously). Their education is probably deficient in basic science and technology (and maybe much else???) And now they are told by a bunch of smart-alecks that wind-power, sun-light, waste cooking oil, abattoir wastes, kitchen waste and even harmless plants can be a source of energy used by ingenious people around the world to make their vehicle go from A to B. All of which, by law, must be taxed if the route A-B touches any US public road! They are not generally told how to do this but they do know that their salary and job depend on making a visible effort. So they resort to the tried and tested techniques of obfuscation, form-filling and threats. And you, of course, turn your undoubted ingenuity into tax avoidance. All of which is pretty unproductive and time wasting but is apparently the price you must pay for living in an elected aristocracy rather than a true democracy. Need I move on to the public investment that has been made in the EPA and the need it now has to continually justify and support itself and its employees? In my opinion (which, as has often been pointed out, means I could easily be wrong), your choices are straight-forward enough: You get the rules changed: Lobbying, forming your own co-operative, paying for a barrage of spin-doctors, media-men and (horrors!) lawyers. You live by the rules: Pay your taxes, tithes and levies, perhaps write to your Congress-man (unless, of course, he is doing an 8 year stretch for corruption), you can even get out of biodiesel production and buy the regular stuff made by the companies and so (indirectly) contribute to party funds. You can leave: Go to Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand perhaps. Or (what is considered by some people to be equivalent) you can just curl up and die. (Besides, other countries, perhaps even the Hereafter, have new laws which you have to learn about.) You can moan and groan: But this doesn't normally achieve much unless you happen to like talk-back radio. But don't get sore. Remember that the rules that you object to have been carefully put in place to protect society from any
Re: [biofuel] Sight tube material
How about Nylon. One of four chemicaly impervious chemicals. Haven't used it yet but that was my plan. Would appreciate comments if it had been used? Matt wrote: I would like to know what a sight tube could be made of for a biodiesel processing tank. Preferrably flexible tubing that could be fixed to barbed fittings on the tank. _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method
Bill and Todd; Have you considered selling BioDiesel as a fuel additive only. Does this not exempt you from many of the troubling issues? snip Bill, While you have hit upon what might appear to be a reasonable loophole in the matter, there remain several points of contention. For a moment consider that I might be a very bitter commercial biodiesel manufacturer, extremely angry at the manner in which the NBB/soy councils are attempting to get their checkoff dollars back after they've already spent them once. Surely you don't believe that someone such as this would let a manufacturing scenario such as you present go unchallenged, simply because the state or municipality is road tax exempt? Consider the EPA's definition of in commerce as being on-road use. Not brief use of agriculturally exempt dyed fuel, such as hauling a tractor to a harvest site, but non-dyed commercial grade fuel. It's the exact same fuel whether it's taxed or not and whether it's in a state DOT truck, a privately owned tractor trailer or a Volkswagen Golf. Also consider for a moment from where these tax exempt entities have been previously accessing their fuel - outside vendors. There are arenas full of ordinances and statutes governing the acquisition of supplies and competing with commercial interests. Now try and explain to the miffed commercial biodiesel producer why the state or municipality should be exempt from the same Health Affects data requirements that he or she must adhere toSame roads. Same air. Same quality of emissions. Which brings a soul directly to the off-road exemption, which will at some point cease to exist due to the very same arguement. Too many lawyers, too many bureaucrats and too many people serving self-interests inevitably screw up anything worthwhile. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: William Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 11:45 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Todd- Early on in my ivestigation of biodiesel (relative to the total time I have spent) I checked with the municipality here and found that they are exempt from state and federal fuel taxes. Same for schools. My question here is if a municipality would be required to register thier fuel if they produce it themselves and use it to operate their own equipment? I make the assumption that apart from the chemical inputs, there will be no hazardous by-products. If chemicals which may be obtained on the open market are properly handled, what other concern does the EPA have in this matter? Bill C. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Bill, There is nothing to stop anyone from producing their own fuel for their own off-road use, save for local ordinances that may apply. And there may not be anything stopping anyone from producing their own fuel for their own personal on road use, save for the IRS and state taxation departments relative to collection of road taxes and the EPA relative to registration of the fuel - presuming they made the effort to be intentional pains in the arse on the matter. But the moment a commercial manufacturer produces the first drop for use in commerce (road legal fuel), they have to buy access to Health Affects data, either by paying NBB fees, conducting their own studies or partnering with an entity that already has legal access to the data. That's pretty much the end of the story at the moment. And pretty much what scotches it for many people who would ordinarily move into higher volumes of manufacture within their own communities. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: William Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Todd- I don't know exactly what EPA and soybean councils have put on paper. I would be interested in seeing what legislation or rules apply. Would appreciate directions to access that info (if available). One loophole I hope to exploit may be that I am proposing that entities refine their own fuel, not produce commercially. Bill C. .- Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method That's rather a hopeful thought...that an Audobon/NBB board member could persuade the EPA and the soybean councils to make a loophole in the matrimonial papers they formulated in order to accomodate micro-regional manufacture. Don't get me wrong. It would be wonderful if they would. But that certainly hasn't been the
[biofuels-biz] Chem Supplies
I am unable to secure NaOH or H2SO4 for a test batch of BD. I am to demo this for some highschoolers on monday and i have procrastanated, aparantly too long. It seems Since 911 no more shipping to people. Love living in the land of the free. I live in the michigan Detroit area. If anyone can help, Please let me know? Eric _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding cetane fuel properties
I belive Heat of Vaporization is irrelavant in a diesel, as cooling is not important, and detonation is not possable. The artical does not mention that. I would like verification of my understanding. Thanks Eric From: MH Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding cetane fuel properties snip Heat of Vaporization Heat of vaporization affects engine power and efficiency. It is the amount of heat absorbed by a fuel as it evaporates from a liquid state, which occurs when the fuel is mixed with air prior to combustion. Higher heat of vaporization leads to improved cooling ability. Higher cooling during the intake stroke of a spark-ignition engine results in a denser air/fuel mixture. A denser mixture has two effects: (1) it allows for greater power, and (2) it permits a greater compression ratio, which improves power and efficiency. However, although a high heat of vaporization improves power and efficiency, it also adds to coldstart problems when there is little heat in the air or in the engine to vaporize the fuel prior to spark ignition. The alcohol fuels have much higher heats of vaporization than gasoline or diesel. sniped _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
It seems the whole of US manufacturing is blatantly unintelligent, at times vigorously so. They seemed focused on partnerships and friend ships like its a high school popularity contest! I think I should have to disagree about the loud pipes on bikes though. We know that 4 out of 5 motorcycle accidents are the cars fault. Cars notice bikes with loud pipes. I understand that loud pipes save lives. Would you say safety would allow loud pipes on bikes? No reason, and good reason not to, on motor boats, i would guess I'm hesitant to jump into the middle of a hot debate, but IMHO the reason Cummins doesn't (not can't) build better Diesel engines, is the same reason Mercedes VW etc. won't/don't sell them here. Very poor fuel! Yes -- but it's the US auto industry, working hand and glove with Big Oil, who has shot down attempts to clean up diesel fuel. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy -- because we know if Detroit started demanding cleaner fuel, it would be happen quickly, but we also know the incestuous relationship there where the oil companies help the auto companies fight off milage requirements and then they return the favor via the clean fuel issue. A provocative thought...Who is really more technically advanced? The engine builders that can only use highly refined European fuels, or the ones who can run on the junk fuel we have in the US? Are we maybe comparing Apples and Oranges? It's not only who is more advanced, but who is more responsible. Let's face it, the US auto industry has built junk for decades. Think about it -- isn't it much easier to build a a low-efficiency engine that burns low quality fuel and gets low milage than to design a hi-tech engine that takes advantage of better fuel? Would it be a fair comparison to run a European engine on our junk fuel, and an American engine on European fuel? Which manufacturers will willingly provide warranty service for their engine if such a test were to be scheduled? My understanding is that the European (and Japanese) engines don't have that much problem running on our fuel, they just can't meet emission tests when they do, and why should they be expected to? Both industry and gov't knew decades ago that fuels needed to be cleaned up -- what are they waiting for? It should have been mandated 20 years ago. Instead we see the EPA blocking small biodiesel production -- what a sick joke. High sulfur fuel and coal is responsible for acid rain, we've known this for at least 40 years -- why is it still being burned and clean fuels being stonewalled? Pretty sick. I think we need much tighter controls on the trucking industry all across the board -- both in air pollution and noise pollution, why should they be exempt? Same with tractors and construction equipment and boats and planes. For some time now I've been thinking of starting a website to solicit funds for a class action lawsuit against Harley-Davidson for building an unsafe product - unsafe in that they violate all motor vehcle muffler laws right out of the showroom. It would be a pretty easy case to win, and the funds generated could then be used to hit all the other manufacturers of noisy machines. Back in '62 a friend of mine bought a brand new BMW motorcycle. It was so quiet you literally couldn't tell if it was running unless you put your hand on it or looked at the tach. It totally amazed those of us who grew up with Harley's (my first bike was a '47 Harley, btw). There's just no excuse for all those noisy, smoke belching machines -- the technolgy to build better stuff has been around for a long time -- why is US industry dragging it's feet? I think it's more a matter of a cowboy attitude than anything else -- the macho I'll do what I want and to hell with everybody else attitude we see so prevalent in US foreign policy and everything else. I was out fishing the other night and some asshole in a *huge* inboard boat with dual V8 engines and absolutely no mufflers was cruising up and down the river. What I would have given for a torpedo! -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Genetic Engineering
Hallo Thor Skov, I think I know a plant that is nearly in the way you whish: Snip This oil, after extraction and sedimentation, can be used directly as a substitute of diesel in precombustion chamber diesel engines (like Mercedes personel cars). HUGE SNIP Most Modern Diesels do not have a precombustion chamber. The TDI Diesels have a small well in the pistion, but its not anything like a precombustion chamber. Can this oil be used in modern Diesels? _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
