RE: [Biofuel] Re: soybeanoil/Sunflower a bad choice for BD makin g?]
Hi to all, There was similar question about Sunflower Oil about month ago, and answer from Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] was: Sunflower oil has an IV of 133. This is even higher than soybean oil. Polymerization concerns arise.I am now looking for a sorce of good peanut wvo. peanut oil has an IV of 92 (sweet). *I don't think IV matters much for biodiesel, maybe unless you're *leaving it around for years before burning it. Check out www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/20020101_gen-345.pdf *Structure Indices in FA Chemistry. How Relevant is the Iodine Value?, *Gerhard Knothe, 2002, Journal of American Oil Chemists' Society. *Basically, IV only matters if you're burning straight oil. Once you *turn it into biodiesel, it doesn't matter. Even linseed makes OK *biodiesel. There's lots of references in the paper to other research *which arrives at similar conclusions. *-K So if I understand it correctly, it seams that after transforming SVO/WVO to BD polymerzation problem does not exisit any more, Am I right, or that also means that Sunflower Oil is also bad choice for BD making? Regards, Denis ## -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan Warnqvist Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] Hello DB. Quoting :Trans esterifying triglyceride oils and fats with monohydric alcohols to form biodiesel largely eliminates the tendency of the oils and fats to polymerization and auto-oxidation.. I can add that this is the exact scenario with methyl ester from fish oil and linseed oil. Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: DB [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] Anyone making bio-diesel should be concerned with the IV of the oil and the polymerzation of the engine. After a careful reading of the australian report WVO as a Diesel replacement fuel it is obvious that they are concerned with it's use as straight veggy oil and Not so much Bio-diesel.( I would be concerned too) Here is a direct quote from that report. Trans esterifying triglyceride oils and fats with monohydric alcohols to form biodiesel largly eliminates the tendency of the oils and fats to polymerization and auto-oxidation.. The base crop for european biodiesel being rapeseed with a IV of 98 is a reasonable goal to acheve. Most of my stock is soy oil and much of it is hydrogenated. I also get cottonseed and peanut oil along with canola (rapeseed) I no longer use straight soy oil and try to make a blend. In the past when I only had soy oil based biodiesel I would only run BD50. I an no longer worried about the IV of the oil and if you are then just run BD50.Drive down the road Happy...DB ..PS. I have been making biodiesel since '02 and have made 1000's of gallons with zero problems. - Original Message - From: TLC Orchids and Such [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] Where can we get the veg-based motor oil? Can better oil filtering help with this problem? Racor has a motor oil filter used in race cars. - Original Message - From: stephan torak [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; stephan torak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] Thanks for the follow up, Keith. I have since spent many hours researching the issue and have found some relevant facts here: www.blt.bmlf.gv.at/vero/veroeff/0100_Technical_performance_of_methyl_esthers _e.pdf #www.blt.bmlf.gv.atveroveroeff0100_Tec Keith Addison wrote: Hello Stephan, Jan and all I asked Elsbett's Alexander Noack for some comment on what he was quoted as saying about soy oil, and got a very brief response from him: Hi Keith, this all is nearly correct, but only for direct injection engines. Mit freundlichen Gren / Best regards Alexander Noack ELSBETT Technologie GmbH Weissenburger Strae 15 D-91177 Thalmaessing Internet: www.elsbett.com e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: +49 (0)9173 77940 Fax: +49 (0)9173 77942 This was the quote in question: Soybean oil is bad. Whether it is straight vegetable oil or soybean based biodiesel. It is a no-go in diesel engines. Why? In diesel engines you have slight mixing between fuel and lubricating oil. There is a fuel property in soybean oil that makes it reactive when in contact with engine lubricating oil. It supposedly has a polymerizing action with the engine oil, which is
[Biofuel] Salt in WVO problem or not ??
hi to all, This is my first mail to the list. I am planing to make my first bach of BD, and one question bothering me for some time. How salt inside WVO can influence BD production process? Is it (salt) somehow taken out during BD production process or it stayes inside final product (BD)? I am asking that because I do not think that our TDI car engines would like salt in it fuel. I have done lot of reading but have never come across this kind of info. any visions about it ? thanks, Denis ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] first batch of biodiesel
go to: (you will find test batch procesor, nad how to do it. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor7.html regards, Denis # Denis Jelatancev s mobile IC S IN HW SIEMENS d.d. Heinzelova 70a 1 Zagreb Croatia Tel.+385 1 6105-678 Fax.+385 1 6105-640 Mob:+385 98 38-42-38 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Legal Eagle Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:18 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] first batch of biodiesel Go down this page and search out the acompanying links: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#3biod When I first got started I dedicated a kitchen blender, a re-sealable Grolsch beer bottle (for the methoxide) and a small saucepan to the project along with a simple thermometer that I used to use for checking refer loads while trucking (about $9). I only made 500ml test batches rathere than full 1 liter ones and just did the math to calculate the ingredients.After titrating to determine the amount of NaOH or KOH to mix into the methanol; Fill saucepan with oil, heat to 130F (55C) while mixing up the methanol and lye. Be sure all the lye has disolved in the methanol. (the Grolsch bottle was great for this) and that the oil is no more than the 55C or the methoxide will want to boil off it's methanol (148.5F) and that is no good for a complete reaction. Oil is at 55C and methoxide is ready. Pour hot oil into blender,flip on blender (which will no longer be used for food) and slowly add the methoxide through the top opening of the blendeer. Close top and allow to blend for about 18-20 minutes. Toss the lot into a Masson jar and let settle. In the morning you should have a clear seperation of BD on top and glycerine on the bottom, providing everything was mixed properly. And the rest, such as washing ect is pretty well explained at the link. Luc - Original Message - From: John Guttridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 5:53 PM Subject: [Biofuel] first batch of biodiesel Hello biofuels people, I am about to start making my first batch of biodiesel and I have a whole bunch of questions. in much of the literature it says that it is important that your reacting vessel be sealed to keep the fumes in but the logistics of how to do that while simultaneously stirring and measuring temperature aren't very well covered until you get into building a complicated reactor (probably not worth it for my 1L test batch) I want to make a jarful, does anyone have any good suggestions for fume management. I saw some mention of using a blender but it is not immediately apparent how one would maintain temperature while blending. I saw people throw out their price per gallon as being in the 40-75 cent range, what are people paying for methanol to be getting those prices? what portion of the methanol is reclaimed? I got my methanol from mcmaster carr for $43/5 gal, they haven't told me yet what it is going to cost to ship even though they promise to ship it today, I am expecting that it will be expensive because it is flammable and toxic. I was looking for an electric immersion heater but I couldn't find one for less than 5 gallons (too big to fit in a jar) should I do some sort of a double boiler on a hot plate??? what kind of a return should I expect, if I start with 1L of oil and 250mL of methanol and 6.25g of lye (planning on doing the 2-stage recipe) how much of each of the products should I expect? Thanks in advance for all of your help!! this is a great list! John Guttridge ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
