Re: [Biofuel] Company is buying WVO
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Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
Hello. Lately, I have been doing a lot of reading on the different systems for using SVO. Elsbett seems to have one of the best single tank systems for this. I have made good biodiesel, but with rising costs of methanol, I was looking at alternatives. I have read about fuel mixing and admit have tried the DSE just to see what all the hype was about. I agree that there is nothing really special about their ingredient and most of the thinning and diluting is done with the kerosene and gasoline. It seemed to work fine in my 300SD, but the more I read, the more I learned of the negative aspects(incomplete combustion, coking, ring sticking, etc.). I understand that I should only try things like this for short term experiments, which I have. Is it the FFA in the vegetable oil that causes all of these problems? Is that why biodiesel will not cause these problems, because part of the process removes FFA? I also read about the experiment that concluded that in order to achieve the same atomization as petrol diesel, the rapeseed oil was heated to 150 C. This is twice as hot as most of the 2 tank SVO systems that are on the market now. Would this mean that you would still have incomplete combustion if 150 C cannot be reached? If Rudolf Diesel invented his engine to run on a variety of fuels, including vegetable oil, how come the engines of today require more modification or fuel modification to run veg oil? My last question is concerning the Elsbett single tank SVO system. If you can just pour the veg oil in and go, is there a heater on the main tank for cold weather? I am not even sure that SVO will work for me since I drive 12 miles one way to work. My car gets up to operation temp. half way there. Thanks all. Jonathan Schearer. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, Check out this website if you want to see how well some folks talk out both sides of their mouths. http://www.dieselsecret.com No, it isn't Bio-diesel! Yes, it is the only true Bio-diesel! The Germans at Mercedes have been doing this since the post World War II years but we have the only proprietary ingredients! On, and on, and on. Same old same old. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. Friedrich Nietzsche The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20071213/7291b188/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Automakers Targeted by Lawsuit in California
Good idea. Who's going to tell everyone in California they have to walk now?:) robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: D. Mindock wrote: And yet car companies are fighting the state's landmark regulations requiring them to offer vehicles with 30 percent lower emissions by 2016.They've been doing this as long as I've been alive. Business as usual . . .Be subversive. Don't buy a "business as usual" car. Better yet, park the one you own and walk!robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Stolen Grease
Sorry for the slow response. I was farming with my folks this weekend. I'm thinking that's probably what happened, although I can't prove it. It's difficult to know when the commercial hauler picks up. Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did the commercial hauler take your drum, because you were competing with them? On 9/8/06, Jonathan Schearer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Well, it finally happened to me. I had a 30 gallon steel drum full of waste grease behind the local pizzeria taken on me the other day. I live in a small townwhere things like this don't happen-or do they? I originally had the owner's permission to keep it there-right next to the large commercial grease dumpster. The agreement he made with me was that he would keep filling the 30 gallon drum until it was full and the rest he would put into the commercial dumpster if I could not get it processed fast enough. He asked me if I could provide a metal container because hepreferred to pour his grease hot out of the fryer into the container and the plastic jugs would not work. I did and it was working out nicely. If anyone asked about it, he would tell them that it was his and for his use, since it was on his property. I was driving to work yesterdayand noticed it was not there. That night, I wentin and asked himifhe knewwhere it was. He said that hethought that I had taken it and didn't think anything of it. He told me that thecommercial grease hauler is bringinghim a new bulk container with locks on it because they are experiencing more and more grease theft.The owner does not particulary like to pay for grease disposal, but does not have many options since he wants to do the right thingwhen it comes to disposal. I stated that I most likely would not put another metal drumbehind hiseatery becausethis would happen again. He agreed.Even though it is more work for him, the ownertold me he would pour off the grease once cooledback into the 5 gal. polys thatit comes in for me. This will work out better for me anyways. Ijust don't understand whypeople think they can take something that does not belong to themwithout asking first.Most people get upset when you take something without asking, but if you askfirst, many times theywill give it to you. Thanks to the members here for listening to me vent some frustration. Jonathan. All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Stolen Grease
I just replied to Zeke and said that's what I am thinking also. Thor Burfine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 5 will get you 10 it was the grease hauler who snatched it.they see it as a loss of incomeFrom: Jonathan Schearer [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:53 AMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] Stolen Grease Well, it finally happened to me. I had a 30 gallon steel drum full of waste grease behind the local pizzeria taken on me the other day. I live in a small townwhere things like this don't happen-or do they? I originally had the owner's permission to keep it there-right next to the large commercial grease dumpster. The agreement he made with me was that he would keep filling the 30 gallon drum until it was full and the rest he would put into the commercial dumpster if I could not get it processed fast enough. He asked me if I could provide a metal container because hepreferred to pour his grease hot out of the fryer into the container and the plastic jugs would not work. I did and it was working out nicely. If anyone asked about it, he would tell them that it was his and for his use, since it was on his property. I was driving to work yesterdayand noticed it was not there. That night, I wentin and asked himifhe knewwhere it was. He said that hethought that I had taken it and didn't think anything of it. He told me that thecommercial grease hauler is bringinghim a new bulk container with locks on it because they are experiencing more and more grease theft.The owner does not particulary like to pay for grease disposal, but does not have many options since he wants to do the right thingwhen it comes to disposal. I stated that I most likely would not put another metal drumbehind hiseatery becausethis would happen again. He agreed.Even though it is more work for him, the ownertold me he would pour off the grease once cooledback into the 5 gal. polys thatit comes in for me. This will work out better for me anyways. Ijust don't understand whypeople think they can take something that does not belong to themwithout asking first.Most people get upset when you take something without asking, but if you askfirst, many times theywill give it to you. Thanks to the members here for listening to me vent some frustration. Jonathan. All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Stolen Grease
Mike, you always seem to know how to get a chuckle out of people. Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nah, I did it. Sorry. Didn't know it yours. I've already burned the BD but I still have the glycerine - be happy to drop that off... :-)Seriously, bummer.-WeaverThor Burfine wrote: 5 will get you 10 it was the grease hauler who snatched it. they see it as a loss of income *From*: Jonathan Schearer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> *Sent*: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:53 AM *To*: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject*: [Biofuel] Stolen Grease Well, it finally happened to me. I had a 30 gallon steel drum full of waste grease behind the local pizzeria taken on me the other day. I live in a small town where things like this don't happen-or do they? I originally had the owner's permission to keep it there-right next to the large commercial grease dumpster. The agreement he made with me was that he would keep filling the 30 gallon drum until it was full and the rest he would put into the commercial dumpster if I could not get it processed fast enough. He asked me if I could provide a metal container because he preferred to pour his grease hot out of the fryer into the container and the plastic jugs would not work. I did and it was working out nicely. If anyone asked about it, he would tell them that it was his and for his use, since it was on his property. I was driving to work yesterday and noticed it was not there. That night, I went in and asked him if he knew where it was. He said that he thought that I had taken it and didn't think anything of it. He told me that the commercial grease hauler is bringing him a new bulk container with locks on it because they are experiencing more and more grease theft. The owner does not particulary like to pay for grease disposal, but does not have many options since he wants to do the right thing when it comes to disposal. I stated that I most likely would not put another metal drum behind his eatery because this would happen again. He agreed. Even though it is more work for him, the owner told me he would pour off the grease once cooled back into the 5 gal. polys that it comes in for me. This will work out better for me anyways. I just don't understand why people think they can take something that does not belong to them without asking first. Most people get upset when you take something without asking, but if you ask first, many times they will give it to you. Thanks to the members here for listening to me vent some frustration. Jonathan. All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Stolen Grease
The police would humor me by making out a report and filing it. They have better things to do than to look for a grease thief. Thor Burfine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: truea lock keeps an honest person honesta 12 guage keeps a thief awayI would report the theft to the policeFrom: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 11:43 AMTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Stolen Grease 5 seconds and a bolt cutter... no matchThor Burfine wrote: has anybody thought of welding little chains to thier drums, say about 4ft long and locking them to the fence?
hasp and padlock on the lid? better yet, drill hole through the bolt on the lid ring and pad lock the ring *From*: Jonathan Schearer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> *Sent*: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:53 AM *To*: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject*: [Biofuel] Stolen Grease Well, it finally happened to me. I had a 30 gallon steel drum full of waste grease behind the local pizzeria taken on me the other day. I live in a small town where things like this don't happen-or do they? I originally had the owner's permission to keep it there-right next to the large commercial grease dumpster. The agreement he made with me was that he would keep filling the 30 gallon drum until it was full and the rest he would put into the commercial dumpster if I could not
get it processed fast enough. He asked me if I could provide a metal container because he preferred to pour his grease hot out of the fryer into the container and the plastic jugs would not work. I did and it was working out nicely. If anyone asked about it, he would tell them that it was his and for his use, since it was on his property. I was driving to work yesterday and noticed it was not there. That night, I went in and asked him if he knew where it was. He said that he thought that I had taken it and didn't think anything of it. He told me that the commercial grease hauler is bringing him a new bulk container with locks on it because they are experiencing more and more grease theft. The owner does not particulary like to pay for grease disposal, but does not have many options since he wants to do the right thing when it comes to disposal. I stated that
I most likely would not put another metal drum behind his eatery because this would happen again. He agreed. Even though it is more work for him, the owner told me he would pour off the grease once cooled back into the 5 gal. polys that it comes in for me. This will work out better for me anyways. I just don't understand why people think they can take something that does not belong to them without asking first. Most people get upset when you take something without asking, but if you ask first, many times they will give it to you. Thanks to the members here for listening to me vent some frustration. Jonathan. All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- --Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob---The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercisesin moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moraljustification for
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[Biofuel] Stolen Grease
Well, it finally happened to me. I had a 30 gallon steel drum full of waste grease behind the local pizzeria taken on me the other day. I live in a small townwhere things like this don't happen-or do they? I originally had the owner's permission to keep it there-right next to the large commercial grease dumpster. The agreement he made with me was that he would keep filling the 30 gallon drum until it was full and the rest he would put into the commercial dumpster if I could not get it processed fast enough. He asked me if I could provide a metal container because hepreferred to pour his grease hot out of the fryer into the container and the plastic jugs would not work. I did and it was working out nicely. If anyone asked about it, he would tell them that it was his and for his use, since it was on his property. I was driving to work yesterdayand noticed it was not there. That night, I wentin and asked himifhe knewwhere it was. He said that hethought that I had taken it and didn't think anything of it. He told me that thecommercial grease hauler is bringinghim a new bulk container with locks on it because they are experiencing more and more grease theft.The owner does not particulary like to pay for grease disposal, but does not have many options since he wants to do the right thingwhen it comes to disposal. I stated that I most likely would not put another metal drumbehind hiseatery becausethis would happen again. He agreed.Even though it is more work for him, the ownertold me he would pour off the grease once cooledback into the 5 gal. polys thatit comes in for me. This will work out better for me anyways. Ijust don't understand whypeople think they can take something that does not belong to themwithout asking first.Most people get upset when you take something without asking, but if you askfirst, many times theywill give it to you. Thanks to the members here for listening to me vent some frustration. Jonathan. All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] MaGnesol is... was Re: Manesol pretreatment and washing
When I was talking to the local small pizzeria, he mentioned about the use of some kind of powder that was usedto keep used fryer oil lasting longer. He didn't know the name of it offhand, but stated that he would never use it. I asked him why, and he stated that the food that was cooked in the "refreshed" oildidn't taste the same. The local fire company also asked him about this powder, because the fire company used it one year to try to extend the life of their oil for their fish fry during Lent. They stated that many people were complaining of diarrhea shortly after eating their fish.Nobody could prove(or didn't want to) that it was the powder that was causing this. The local pizzeria vendor told them to just change their oil more frequently and that it was a small price to payfor a little peace of mind. They took his advice and this past year they changed their oil more frequently. As far as I know, there were no, or very few, complaints this year. Would this powder cause "plumbing" problems in individuals? Or would this be due to some other factor?"Bruno M." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Magnesol,with a G in it, and not Manesol like in the title ;-)is used in the US to clear ( resfresh) frying oil and makes it last longer.It's produced by the "Dallas Group of America Inc." www.dallasgrp.com/It's simply a synthetic Magnesium Silicate, sold as an absorbent filter aid.They say: MAGNESOL® XL keeps shortening clean and free from impurities,which reduces the build-up of off-flavor, off-odors and color in usedshortening. Shortening retains its fresh quality, lasts longer and friedproducts are always light, crisp and golden delicious. prAnd in this PDF: www.dallasgrp.com/biodiesel.pdfyou'll find on page 2 their analysis from BD cleaned with Magnesol compared to water washing.So, original made for refreshing fryer oil, it's not new in de BD world,the dallasgroup itself has already found in BD a new market and,this UK commercial site www.ukfueltech.com/ about BD tells ...:~~ snip___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Water in recovered methanol?
I am probably missing something, but where would the water be coming from in the first place? Isn't the waste oil you start with not supposed to contain any water, and if it does, you need to boil it off? Then there's the methanol. It should not contain any water either. I don't believe the catalyst would contain any water either. It is the waste glycerin layer that contains most of the methanol, correct? I have been told that the only stupid question is the one that isn't asked. So I'm asking...where is the water coming from?Michael Gian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In additon, a fractionating column requires a reflux, the partial return andrecycling of distillate product from the condenser back down thefractionatingcolumn which increases the energy tax (energy costs) of purifying themethanol.This is true for tray towers. A more elegant setup is a packedfractionating column, aka reflux column. Years ago we made one packed withsmall glass beads for jewelry, picked up cheap at a garage sale. Ethanolproduction, in this case not intended to fuel machinery. What works forethanol will work for methanol, probably better, given no water azeotrope.Alcohol Fuel Manual Ch11 has the poop.Michael GianMike McGinnessbob allen wrote: without getting into excessive detail, the boiling point of a mixture is the weighted average of the stuff present. At first you have pure methanol coming off. as the temperature rose, increasing amounts of water contaminated the alcohol. You need a fractionating column to obtain pure methanol. Joe Street wrote: 3A sieves will work but are normally used for getting tiny amounts of water out of solvents to bring them into the low ppm range. They will work of course but you might saturate them and have to do a second stage. There is a significant energy input into regenerating the seives as well. You have to bake them at well over 100 degrees C more like 200, but you can get by with lower temps if you bake them out with vacuum. Try putting a thermometer in your condenser and monitor vapour temperature to get a better endpoint and you will have an easier time. You have answered some of my own questions. I have recovered some methanol but not tried to use it yet. Sounds like if straight distillation is carefully done the methanol is dry enough to use without further drying. Great news and thanks for the post! :) I have some excellent references on solvent drying I can mail you if you want. No soft copy sorry but I might be able to scan them. Joe Thomas Kelly wrote: Good day to all, After splitting the glycerine coproduct from roughly 1200L of processed WVO, I distilled approximately 100L of the glycerine/methanol component. The first drops of methanol began to fall from the condenser at 145F. As the temp rose to 150F there was a steady flow of clear liquid from the condenser. Throughout the day I turned the heat off when the flow was steady and back on when it slowed. I filled a 4.5 gal (17.7L) cubie with clear liquid and started a second one. At this point the temp was over 160F. I let the still run up to 200F. At this point the second cubie had 4 gallons of clear liquid (and it was now 1AM) giving a total of 8.5 gal. I was thrilled with the result (and tired). I used the first 4.5 gal (17.7L) to run one batch, and while that was settling ran a second batch using the second 4 gal of recovered methanol. The first batch washed OK, but was a little slow to separate. It failed the methanol quality test. The second batch did not even pass the wash test. I have been making consistenly high quality BD for several months ... thank you JtF and list members. I don't think I made mistakes in measurement or titration. My question: As my distillation temps rose towards 200F (93C) could I have been including water in my distillate? (The methanol recovered at lower temps performed better than the methanol recovered at higher temps.) If so, can I use Zeolite "molecular sieves" in the future to remove it? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen
Re: [Biofuel] Sugar Beets
Sorry Keith, guess I had too many words in my search for the archives. Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all. I was going to plant an acre of sugar beets on my father's farm this year hopefully to see how they work for fuel alcohol. Does anyone have a good recipe for fermenting sugar beets? I checked the archives and didn't find anything.Archives:"sugar beet" 151 hits"beet sugar" - 10 hits"beet" - 519 hits.I checked out the Mother Earth link on the JTF website and found one recipe for sugar beets that will yield 7% alcohol with no extra sugar added.The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol FuelChapter 10, Individual Raw MaterialsSugar/Starch Content vs AlcoholSaccharine MaterialsFruitsMolassesCane SorghumSugar Beetshttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#alcmanualBestKeithWas wondering if there are any different recipes that someone knew about. Thanks.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Sugar Beets
Hello all. I was going to plant an acre of sugar beets on my father's farm this year hopefully to see how they work for fuel alcohol. Does anyone have a good recipe for fermenting sugar beets? I checked the archives and didn't find anything. I checked out the Mother Earth link on the JTF website and found one recipe for sugar beets that will yield 7% alcohol with no extra sugar added. Was wondering if there are any different recipes that someone knew about. Thanks. Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] ethanol distillation
I have a question for the group. Would a water distiller like the kind found at www.waterdistiller.com be similar to an alcohol still? Usually an alcohol still has a column and uses water as the coolant for the condenser. These water distillers use a coil that is air cooled. Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Temp for BD reaction
I heat in a seperate tank then transfer to the mixing tank while the oil is warm. I use a propane heater from a turkey deep fryer. Very fast heating. bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use a single 220 element in my processor but run it on 110 volt supply. It is slow to heat. I usually turn it on and heat till it reaches about 150, and then turn the heat but off but continue mixing for an hour as it.Mike Weaver wrote: I believe 140 is the max...I bought an electronic one with a probe at Target for 20.00 it works fine. Thomas Kelly wrote: Hello to all, It never occured to me to test the temp gauge before I installed them in my biodiesel processor. I've been using a temp gauge that I bought at an auto supply store. After making several batches of quality BD I decided to test it to see how accurate it was. I was surprised to find that it was off by almost 20F. I thought I was running the reaction at 135F, but it was actually closer to 155F. The people at the store were surprised by the discrepancy and gave me another gauge. It was also off by almost 20F. I bought another gauge online that is easier to read, was about half the price, and tested prior to tee-ing it into my processor, is much more accurate than the one from the auto parts store. I'm back to tweaking the process. I've had successs running 75L batches at what turned out to be 155F for 2+hrs. Hopefully the same quality can be achieved at a lower temp. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Bob Allenhttp://ozarker.org/bob"Science is what we have learned about how to keepfrom fooling ourselves" Richard Feynman___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel
Lyn Gerry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I went to the site that Keith recommended and it looks fantastic. What this maker Elsbett sells is a one tank system you can put anything from WVO to Dino into. If such a system exists, why are people bothing to make biodiesel? It would be easier, more ecological, economical etc to just use vegetable oil.I think about this problem both in the ecolological sense and the Peak oil sense. Particularly with the latter, the fewer things you have to buy, the less exposure you have to being gouged by corporations exploiting scarcity. Anyone with access to a few acres of land and a home made oil press can create fuel out of a variety of easy to grow crops.Am I missing something?Lyn Elsbett. See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel snip Lyn, IMO, peoplewill still process biodiesel for pure enjoyment among other reasons. Many times it is not just aboutsaving money, but the personal satisfaction of seeing your own homemade quality fuelput to use. Quality biodiesel can also be used in other applications as well,not just fordiesel cars. People are heating their homes with it too. Thereare many more applications that it can be used for where a system such as the one Elsbett produces wouldnot be applicable. Just my thoughts. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and NASCAR ?
Indy will probably be the first hopefully with others to follow. http://www.brownfieldnetwork.com/gestalt/go.cfm?objectid=69FD3C50-A34F-E19A-D22EFD83833FDE48 MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Senators Urge NASCAR Officials to Switch to Ethanol USAgNet 04/29/2005 http://www.wisconsinagconnection.com/story-national.cfm?Id=452yr=2005 U.S. Senator Jim Talent (R-Mo.), co-chair of the Senate Biofuels Caucus, sent a letter to NASCAR CEO Brian France urging him to switch from leaded fuel to unleaded gasoline blended with ethanol for the NEXTEL Cup Series. Sen. Talent sent the letter with fellow co-chairs of the Biofuels Caucus: Senators Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), Norm Coleman (R-Minn.) and Blanche Lincoln (D-Ark.). The benefits of ethanol use to NASCAR include: enhanced engine performance with reduced vehicle emissions; replaces lead, a known neurotoxin; demonstrates NASCAR's commitment to America; and it's available to consumers nationwide, the senators wrote. Sen. Talent's request comes on the heels of last month's announcement that starting in 2006 ethanol will be used to power the IndyCar Series, including the Indianapolis 500. Sen. Talent and others encouraged the Indy Racing League (IRL) for two years to switch from methanol to ethanol. The National Hot Rod Association and the International Hot Rod Association sanction the use of ethanol. Sen. Talent said he is hopeful NASCAR will move quickly to make the switch. --- Harkin Urges NASCAR to swith to cleaner burning ethanol Writes to NASCAR CEO to follow lead of Indy Racing League in promoting renewable fuels April 28, 2005 http://harkin.senate.gov/news.cfm?id=237109 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel
Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/let_them_eat_rocket_fuel.php Let Them Eat Rocket Fuel Erik D. Olson January 27, 2005 The fact that there's a rocket fuel additive called perchlorate in your water is bad enough. What's worse is the fact that the Bush administration likely manipulated the National Academy of Sciences to designate a lax perchlorate standard. The National Resources Defense Council sued the White House, Defense Department and EPA to release documents relating to perchlorate contamination and the NAS. What they found was evidence of an elaborate campaign designed to downplay the hazards of a dangerous chemical.snip How would perchlorate be removed from drinking water? Simple or complex process? Inexpensive or expensive? Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] the next president of the Nation Devided.
Peggy, excellent words. I couldn't have said it better myself. Jonathan Schearer. Peggy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Well DB, now that you have your target, we could set up awareness and educational programs in the churches. They could sell biodiesel by the gallon as fundraisers. Grease the Palm could be the motto with glistening palm leaves dripping with veggie oil. Actually, they could start collection centers for all their spent oil and have fundraisers to Clean for Christ and make the earth a better place for all. (My apologies for this tongue-in-cheek message to my Christian friends whose devout understanding is a model for excellent qualities to emulate. The bigoted ones will roast in their beliefs anyway.) Next problem? Best wishes, Peggy Subject: [Biofuel] the next president of the Nation Devided. So the Demorats put out their best man ,but he was beat out by the millions of Jesus Freakos Who haven't a clue of what the hell Biodiesel even is.So now we have to suffer through 4 more years of reality as expressed through the George the Weasel Bush Machine.I think not enough Environmental Damage has stirred the sleeping masses. Maybe the next presidential candidate will be more pro environmental.Personally I think the religious right is a very big problem to over comeDB ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! Get yours free! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] about God
Very interesting reading Martin. I did not realize there was so much involved with discussion groups. Personally, I see no need for messages such as the one originally listed here that you responded to. I don't think it benefited anyone. Other than that, this list has a lot of interesting reading. Jonathan Schearer. Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Whether you intended it or not it seems you are trolling See this: Note, I am not moderating any as that is up to Keith. -- Martin Klingensmith site admin Gabriel Proulx wrote: I saw that some people are talking about God. I just want to express my point of view about God: it's total bullshit! It's told that God can create and do anything, as he wish. Following the logic of this statement, he could create a rock which is impossible to lift even for him because he can do anything he wants. But if he can't lift that rock, this mean he can't do anything he wants. Seems that we got a paradox here. Seems that the Bible is not telling the truth. Some peole will say: it's impossible to create a rock which is impossible to lift even God can't do that. That directly say that god can't do anything and that the Bible was not right. Don't it smell like bullshit? Think about that and tell me if paradox can be true. Stop wasting your life and energy in this ridiculous story. It's all about collecting beliver's money. Help the world evolve instead. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol Safety of Dispensing from 55 Gal. Drums to carboy safely
Kevin try this link. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/category.asp?catalog%5Fname=usplasticcategory%5Fname=24990Page=1. They have some helpful products. Jonathan Schearer. Kevin Shea [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:After 11 months of research of biodiesel and pondering methanol safety, I have not come across any recent scenarios of dispensing methanol from a 55 gal metal drum to a BD methoxide processor (carboy) with only one exception. (On Journey to Forever's site) One chap using a 55 gal poly drum of methanol with a special bung cap fitted with a tire valve plug /shaft. The listed method is from memory, but I believe it is ...Applying compressed air to the tire plug will create pressure within the drum to exhaust pressured output (methanol) or pump methanol to the methoxide container etc. To purchase a 55 gal. drum or drums of methanol is a vast saving compared to buying meth. in 5 gal pails here on the northeast coast of the US. Methanol is your most expensive raw material when it comes to biodiesel production. My first question is 1.) How to dispense the Methanol from a 55 gal drum to my carboy safely using approved drum equipment? Model number of hand pumps helps to include with reply!! etc.? How do you ground the drum? I can make a ground 55 gal drum clamp w/wire and ground it to the earth. -Solved Method of delivery? Not sure how the chap purchased the Methanol in a poly drum, or maybe he transferred it, since methanol should most likely be sold in a metal drums?. 2.)Question is: Can't find a rated 55 gal. drum pump (hand) to use for methanol that is explosive proof and is rated for methanol. Any help Thank you, Kevin Shea ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] filtering WVO
Dave, have a look at this and see if it might help you. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/search.asp?search=ez+strainersx=10y=8. DAVE C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I am using Kentucky Fried oil to heat my house with an oil gun boiler which I have connected to my hot air furnace. My problem is how do I prefilter the oil so I do not use up so many disposable auto oil filters?. I have tried reusable stainless steel coffee filters with hot oil but they plug up in about a gallon and have to be cleaned. Any suggestions? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Biodiesel output to galvanized settling tankw/site tube
Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jonathan Kevin, I'm not sure if this relates to what you are doing, but I used the POR-15 that was recommended in the JTF site with great satisfaction. I coated the inside of 2-55 gallon tanks with half a pint. I used the clear paint and it formed a shell-like glaze that is solid like a rock. I made sure I read all the precautions on this stuff, use a respirator. High organics. I have not had anything in the tanks as of yet though. Hopefully I can get another stage completed over Thanksgiving. Just a suggestion. Jonathan Schearer. We'd used POR-15 previously, with great results, but not with biodiesel. So before I uploaded the POR-15 link to our site I wrote to them and asked about resistance to all things biodiesel, and they assured me it was resistant. We haven't used it inside a processor, but we have used it for a few other things that have had a lot of contact with biodiesel, but washed biodiesel, thus not with the processing chemicals. We had one report from someone who used it inside a processor and said it started to peel off after awhile, which he attributed to heat expansion and contraction, though it didn't peel off the rusty bits. I wasn't sure if he'd prepared the surface properly, which is really important. So I'm very interested to hear how you get along with it. Please let us know. Regards Keith I will share my findings. I am very optimistic and hope it works out well. The only frustrating thing on my part is how long it has been taking me to assemble the processor. Just to prepare the surface of the tanks for application took me 3 weeks. I had to do it in 3 stages...Clean surface with their cleaner, let dry, apply the metal etch, let dry, apply POR-15 let dry. When I received the package in the mail, I opened it and one of the first pieces of literature was labeled in large letters: DIRECTIONS FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T READ DIRECTIONS. I had to laugh and then read them. Jonathan. Kevin Shea wrote:Thanks Keith, Is the polyester resin coating something of a 'do-it-yourself' project? There is four 1 openings on each tank, so I should be able to pour the resin (or spray) and rotate each tank for full coverage. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com/a ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Biodiesel output to galvanized settling tankw/site tube
Kevin, I'm not sure if this relates to what you are doing, but I used the POR-15 that was recommended in the JTF site with great satisfaction. I coated the inside of 2-55 gallon tanks with half a pint. I used the clear paint and it formed a shell-like glaze that is solid like a rock. I made sure I read all the precautions on this stuff, use a respirator. High organics. I have not had anything in the tanks as of yet though. Hopefully I can get another stage completed over Thanksgiving. Just a suggestion. Jonathan Schearer. Kevin Shea [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Thanks Keith, Is the polyester resin coating something of a 'do-it-yourself' project? There is four 1 openings on each tank, so I should be able to pour the resin (or spray) and rotate each tank for full coverage. However, I inquired further with a resin company on the internet and waiting to see what advice they have for me. -Kevin - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Biodiesel output to galvanized settling tankw/site tube Hello Kevin Currently I process BD as single-stage, but hope to grow into the acid two-stage down-the-line. My reactor is the Girl Mark fumeless model.. Here is my question(s)... Wondering if I can use three sealed 82 gal sealed galvenized tanks in my biodiesel processor is okay? Both NaOH and KOH react with zinc. You could try giving the tanks an inner coating of polyester resin (glass fibre), or two coatings maybe. It resists the biodiesel process well, including the acid-base process. Best wishes Keith I plan to use this as a fumeless settling tank, a second 82 gal tank as a biodiesel wash tank and a third to store the glycerin byproduct to later pump back to the reactor for methanol recovery. (all tanks have pressure release valves for safety) These three tanks have a maximum pressure of 125 PSI, so they are strong. However, I've read in Girl Marks fumeless processor, she frowns on the 3/4 galvanized plumbing (but does not explain why), but since black pipe is not available for the manifold etc,., we have no choice in some of the components to go with galvanized.. Can I use these galvanized tank in my process...or what is the deal with galvanized with biodiesel production if any problems? Any ideas? Thank you, Kevin Shea Beacon, New York USA ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Re[2]: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Gustl Steiner-Zehender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo Greg, Thursday, 21 October, 2004, 20:10:26, you wrote: I spent 8 years in the military. I was a spook and worked at an NSA/NSG (No Such Agency/Naval Security Group) command in the operations section. I am still in daily contact with many former, retired and current members of the intel community many of whom are my friends as well as colleagues. Over the years I have also worked with other spooks from all the military services as well as the CIA/DIA. I am not unfamiliar with the day to day nuts and bolts operations within that very small community.snip Gustl, can I ask you what the definition of the term spook you are referring to? Just curious. Thanks. Jonathan. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] How many forum members does it take?
Dan, this post was hilarious. LOL! Jonathan. Dan Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:How many forum members does it take to change a light bulb? 1 to change the light bulb. 1 to post that the light bulb has been changed. 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. 22 to claim light bulbs were cheaper in 1973 after adjusting for inflation. 5 to blame the Bush administration for allowing the bulb to burn out. 12 to blame the Zionists for stealing their light bulbs. 6 to argue over whether it's lightbulb or light bulb. 2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is lamp. 15 know-it-alls who claim they were in the industry, and that light bulb is perfectly correct. 10 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a lightbulb forum. 11 to defend the posting to this forum saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant to this forum. 6 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty. 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs. 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected URLs. 27 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this group which makes light bulbs relevant to this group. 19 to accuse the big light bulb corporations of depleting precious vacuum resources. 4 to complain about Spain's new tax on used light bulbs. 3 to claim only the French make the best bulbs, and everything else is le crap. 5 Americans to remind the French they are making light bulbs instead of candles because the US bailed them out, again. 33 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures. 5 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy. 9 to call light bulbs weapons of mass illumination and to deny Iraq had any WMI. 2 to say didn't we go through this already a short time ago? 4 to say do a search on 'light bulbs' before posting questions about light bulbs. 3 to spam the post talking about how light is pretty 7 to ask what kind of lightbulb they should buy. 2 to get in a heated debate about which is better, halogen or fluorescent. 3 to ask about how to get it to turn on. 4 to post that they are forming a light bulb co-op. 1 to write some long cynical diatribe metaphorically reflecting the frustration of the whole experience. and 1 new forum member to respond to the original post 6 months from now and to start it all over again. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 10/8/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] 2004 election voter guide
Jennifer, in a previous message, Terry states that he did not write the initial voter guide. He merely passed along a message that has been on the internet. Jonathan Schearer. Jennifer Doty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Terry, Your misguided attempts to distort truths, and make Bush seem like a good guy, do offend me. Nothing could be more anti Christian then the current Bush administration, inspite of what he says on TV. Actions speak so much louder than empty words. Also, I don't think being intolerant is truly Christian. That is just what the religious right wing conservatives want you to believe. Re- read the New Testaments, Jesus would not disown certain groups of people just because they are different, or because they made choices that may be hard for others to understand. I don't understand how Bush can claim to be pro life when he has caused a war which has slaughterer thousands of innocent people. Banning partial birth abortions is silly anyway, no self respecting doctor would perform such a thing unless the life of the mother was in jeopardy. And please tell me when did the government become expert on what takes Doctors YEARS to study, learn, and practice. I do not want my government placing orders and restrictions on what my doctors can do to protect my health. Please read below: Gary Vance | Wasn't Jesus A Liberal? http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1019-24.htm Published on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 by CommonDreams.org Wasn't Jesus A Liberal? by Gary Vance Liberalism has been under assault for years now. The battering of this grand political philosophy has altered the contemporary definition of liberal to the point that Conservatives use it as a profane word. They use it to paint a political opponent as anti-God and anti-American. It has gotten to the point that moderate and liberal Christians are afraid to be open about their political leanings. Sadly, it even affects their conscience and choices as they enter the voting booth. This is particularly troubling to me as a Christian evangelical minister who loves America. Liberalism as defined by Webster's Third New International Dictionary: a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of man, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for tolerance and freedom for the individual from arbitrary authority in all spheres of life. I am not sure why anyone would feel threatened by Liberalism as defined by the dictionary. They are apparently unaware or simply refuse to acknowledge the long history of liberals who have labored for the betterment of society and the furthering of God's Kingdom. The labor movement of the early twentieth century was aided significantly when major Christian denominations got behind it. No average American would have a fair wage today if it weren't for liberal Christians and labor activists. Liberal Christians and civil rights activists fought and still fight against conservative America for racial equality. Child labor laws were enacted because liberals fought for them. Medicare and Social Security exist today because of Liberalism. Bleeding heart liberals have long advocated for the homeless, the hungry, the less fortunate, and the disenfranchised. The women of America owe liberals a big thank you for their almost equal rights. Tree hugging liberals fight for clean air and water standards instead of favoring industrial polluters and short term profiteering that destroy God's green earth. Liberals believe in affordable health care for all U.S. citizens. They also believe in higher taxes for the rich and lower taxes for the middle class and the poor. Liberals love their spouses and children. Liberals faithfully attend their churches to worship God. Liberals love America and hate terrorism and have proved it by fighting in every war for this country. Liberals come in all shapes, sizes, and color. They are found in the ranks of Protestants, Catholics, Jews, agnostics, and atheists. Conservative Republican policies generally favor the wealthy and ignore the needs of the poor. Their policies are so often greed-driven, with no concern for the environmental or societal consequences for their exploitive actions. Jesus plainly taught that the love of money is the root of all evil. So, Christians can go after the various fruit of sin in our society, but they won't see the real change for the better until the axe is laid to the root. Christians should oppose greed-driven policies as a primary point of political concern. I am sick of reading letters to the editor and editorials that paint Democrats and liberals as anti-God and anti-American and that portray conservative Republicans as the only true Christian patriots. We know that many Democrats are pro-choice and many support gay issues and this troubles most evangelicals. Democrats also support causes that should be of Christian concern that go untouched by Republicans. I have listed some in the above paragraphs. True prophetic vision
RE: [Biofuel] US Minnesota Fuels Plan
Peggy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good luck Gov. However, we hope to change the fuel ethanol business to be total biomass production and not based on an expensive food crop. And the existing corn producers are doing a great job with their products. We salute them and look forward to joining forces toward a united effort. snip Peggy, I would like to do more of my own personal research for my own knowledge on ethanol production from cellulosic biomass. From the readings, you seem like you could point me in the correct direction. Do you know if the technology has reached this stage yet on a commercial basis? I have read some articles about companies doing small scale pilot programs, but not of any on a large scale. Thanks. Jonathan. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kerry's environmental car- yea right.(II)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reading below -- John Kerry on the environment: An exclusive Grist interview. By Amanda Griscom 23 Sep 2003 http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2003/09/23/griscom-kerry/ mentions his Harley, Mini Van and why, amoungst other things. = Mr. Kerry mentions renewables and uses California as an example. Well, you can take that example and in fact some of the countries in Europe (Scandanavia) and knock a good precentage off what's regarded as an environmentally friendly renewable...because of the Hydro mix. In general, Hydro is bad. Pure and simple. It alters and/or destroys the environment. To use Hydro as an environmentally friendly renewable is preposterous. Please don't bring up 1KW user turbines. I'm talking about hydro plants for a big city. Like it or not, the world is not getting any smaller and the power has to come from somewhere. How much fossil fuel (coal, oil, natural gas) would be burned to replace the amount of power produced from Hydro power? Would more nuclear plants have to come online? Biomass? Not enough available to make up for what a Hydro plant produces in my opinion. I'm not saying Hydro power is 100% environmentally friendly, but there has to be a happy medium somewhere. Not every area is geographically set up to use solar panels and wind turbines. Maybe in the future, along with the recyclables I place at the curb with our garbage for collection, our yard waste will be collected for biomass energy plants. Ridiculous idea? Comments always enjoyed. Jonathan. Ask the Native Americans in Manitoba about what they think about Hydro. Ask the Sierra Club what they think about Hydro. Ask Ron B. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] running biodiesel in gas engines
Gregg, I have a question to ask you about your FFV TC minivan. I have read that these are designed to run any blend of gasoline and ethanol, up to 85% ethanol. Why are you running biodiesel and not ethanol? Personal preference? Ethanol not available in your area? Just curious, that's all. Thanks. Jonathan. Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hi Keith, Glad I could be of help to folks that have questions. I haven't had much time to make any more BD than the 5 or 6 gallons I made recently. I added about 2.2 gallons (a bit over 10%) to the fuel in my Chrysler TC mini van earlier this month. The 3.3 L V-6 Flex Fuel engine seemed to like the that. Since the Jeeps are fairly new, I only add about .5 gallons to their fuel, while adding 10% to the fuel of my lawn tractors. As soon as I have the chance to make more BD, I'll use it more frequently in the vehicles. Respectfully, Gregg Keith Addison wrote: Hi Gregg Thanks for this, that takes it all forward a whole lot. Unfortunately, Franklin's email account has been non-functional for a while. I hope he'll rejoin us and give us further news of his work with biodiesel, in both 2-strokes and gasoline engines. Hello Al, I'm the one that posted a while back about mixing a percentage of BD, about 10 - 15%, with my gas using it in my lawnmower, as well as my mini van Jeeps. It was sucessful. So far, I add BD to my gas frequently. This cleans the build-up out. I noticed my mileage drops a bit, but when I fill up with 100% gasoline, I get better mileage power. To this day, I have not had any sort of engine problems. Do you have more detail on the frequency you've used BD? I recall seeing something in the archives at Journey To Forever, Not at Journey to Forever. but since things have been moved to a new server, they might be here. The list has been using the excellent Infoarchive provided by list member Martin Klingensmith for the last two years, as Yahoo's archive became ever more useless. That hasn't changed - all list messages from the start of the list are filed at the Infoarchive, and constantly updated. It has powerful and fast search functions. The link is at the end of every message you receive: Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Now that we've dumped Yahoo we also have a new archive, where messages are stored by the week, also constantly updated, and viewable by Thread, Subject, Author or Date, but it's not searchable, and it starts from when the list moved on 9 September. This achives is linked at the top of every message you receive: List-Archive: I'm sure Keith can tell you if you contact him. I did, onlist, but I shouldn't have to. It's even in the List rules - more guidance than rules, though there are rules too: The archives contains more than 38,000 messages over nearly five years. The question you want to ask or the topic you're interested in has probably already been covered. That's no reason not to ask it again, but if you know what's gone before you'll ask a better question and get better answers. Everyone's been referred to that at least once. List members should know how to use the archives and do it as a matter of course. The Rules are here: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/05.html For instance, so far, apart from news items, very little that's been said in the current discussion on Bush, Kerry, Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel etc, hasn't already been discussed, affirmed, confirmed, substantiated, debunked, discredited, blown right out of the water, probably several times. A look at the archives first would yield a better, more constructive discussion, from which everybody benefits. Otherwise it just goes round and round, to little avail, and with much more risk of it degenerating into a flame war. PLEASE, everybody, use the archives! Best wishes Keith Respectfully, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Sometime ago someone was talking about doing there own testing of mixing 10% biodeisel in gas, and running there lawnmower on it. I think that in that same email, there was talk about trying the same test on a minivan. As fas as I know there was never an email about the result of running biodiesel as a top cyclinger lubricant in a minivan. If anyone has some data one this I would really like to read it. Thanks, Al ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] US Minnesota E20 Plan
Connecticut also has the 10% ethanol blend law. Jan. 1, 2004 went into effect. See http://www.dep.state.ct.us/air2/mtbe/mtbe_faq.htm. Jonathan. MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve Spence wrote: Minnesota is not the only state that mandates ethanol in gasoline. NY is at 10% currently. It's my understanding California is as well. Steve, Were did you read New York uses E10 statewide? = = = Original message = = = Pawlenty pushes plan to double ethanol in gasoline Brian Bakst, Associated Press September 27, 2004 http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/5002480.html ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol: Energy IN and Energy OUT
Ron, can I ask where this new ethanol plant will be constructed and where you attended these meetings? Thanks. Jonathan. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Folks, Corn = Maize I happened to attend an investor prospectus meeting last night for the proposed construction of a 50 million gallon (189 million liters) ethanol plant last night. Actually, I attended the same meeting near my hometown last week and felt I didn't take good enough notes, so I drove 60 miles (95 km) each way last night to hear the speakers (business and agriculture experts) again! I also include some info off the web from ethanol promoters. To begin: The ethanol plants built today are a far cry from the ones built in the early 1980's!!! From one of the experts: For each BTU consumed to get ethanol, you get 1.389 BTUs back with the ethanol product. Today's new 'Dry Mill' plants use 50 per cent LESS energy and they produce almost 22 percent more ethanol from a bushel of corn than 20 years ago. Today's ethanol plants are built and operated with new fuel-grade process technology as opposed to using the older industrial/beverage grade processes (read: wet mill big outfits). Some of the advances used since the 1980's: 1) Molecular sieves (molsieves)- for dehydrating ethanol to near absolute levels. 2) Thermal integration- recaptures and reuses heat and cooling processes throughout the plant. 3) Enzyme technology- has improved drastically in both reducing cost and raising production efficiency. 4) Yeasts- are now propagated within the plants instead of 'pitching' when done with a batch. Instead of buying truckloads of yeast per month, companies are now buying only a few kilograms for propagation internally. 5) Automation- has reduced labor costs and...increased quality control and uniformity. 6) On the farm: Contrary to general perceptions, farmers today are more conscious of inputs (fertilizer, pesticides, tillage requirements, blah, blah), because the stuff is NOT cheap anymore and they use new technology. Also, yields have continued to increase per acre (hectare) with new corn varieties. Just stating the facts and not the philosophies here. I'm in no mood for a debate on this. The design-build contractor for the ethanol plant sets GUARANTEES for operation. 1) 2.8 gallons of ethanol per bushel of corn. 2) No more than 34,000 BTUs expended for natural gas operation per gallon of ethanol produced. 3) No more than 37,000 BTUs expended for coal operation per gallon of ethanol produced. 4) No more than 0.75 KWH of electricity used per gallon of ethanol produced. 5) 18 pounds (8.16 kg) of DDGS (dried distiller's grain solids) per bushel of corn. DDGS has 27% protein, 11% fat, and 9% fiber and is usually dried down to 9-10% moisture content. BTW- DDGS is considered a co-product and NOT a by-product. It constitutes about 20% of revenue for the company. Future Technologies: 1) High Gravity Fermentation- reduces water use by using higher levels of solids in mash. 2) High Temperature Yeast- Reduce energy costs by new yeasts fermenting at higher temps with resultant higher alcohol content in the 'beer'. You won't have to pre-cool it as much before you toss in the yeast. 3) Quick Steeping- will allow dry millers to 'capture' corn OIL before its 'lost' in the DDGS and be sold for other uses. 4) New Strains of Grain- get 37 pounds of starch instead of 33 pounds out of a bushel of corn. 5) Cellulose-ethanol Technology- converts corn kernel fiber into ethanol also. Ron B. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
