Re: [Biofuel] Convert your Microwave oven to make Colloidal Silver
Joe Maybe it helps to know the voltage (capacitors come in many sizes), but if they make a 3500 volt meter I could definitely get one to use. I know several offshore electricians who deal with that level of volts and even higher. That would involve having the microwave pulled apart to see what it says. I am very familiar working with 440 3 phase, I used to work for a navy contractor and that's what they gave us for supply power to our equipment. As for the leads, if the meter is rated for the voltage then I'd be pretty sure the leads would sustain it. I could easily be wrong I have no formal training in electronics. I was not aware of dirt allowing the charge to pass. And I know they COULD have enough electricity to provide another discharge, but if you are doing something stupid like pulling a microwave apart in the first place that would be a good first step toward safety. Notice I said most if not all it would depend on a lot of factors. To be honest I have a 5kv megger that has a meter display on it. I know it will jump if it is plugged into a hot electrical source. I'd be willing to try that to see if it displays. I'd be cautious of the handle possible spinning; otherwise leaving it on the capacitor would possible draw the remaining power out of it. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 3:18 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Convert your Microwave oven to make Colloidal Silver See! See! A quick test will a meter might leave you lying on the floor witrh your heart all a twitter. What meter will you use to check 3500 V DC? What voltage are the leads good for? Did you know that even dirt on the outside of the lead wires can be enough of a conductive path to let the discharge flow right down the surface to your hands? No probably not. And it would not be something intuitively obvious to anyone who has not been trained how to work with HV. Because it is not obvious and everyone has to be taught these things. Did you know that the dielectric in a HV capacitor will usually recharge itself quite significantly after a single discharge? It is also a naive assumption that pulling the plug will leave the cap discharged. No offence to you Logan, but your post just serves to illustrate my point. Joe Logan vilas wrote: If turn on the microwave and pull the plug while it's running that would discharge most if not all of the power in the capacitor I would think. A quick test from a meter would verify if it still had power or not. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk McLoren Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:19 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Convert your Microwave oven to make Colloidal Silver I think the commercial process was the Katadyne process. You pull an arc between two silver electrodes under distilled water and filter the result since you will have a mix of sizes. I think they use something around 30 to 60 volts. High amperage as you want a plasma. When it goes out you restrike. Kirk D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Joe, I would bring the oven to a shop that routinely repairs them to have that capacitor discharged safely. The thing with using the oven's electronics (no magnetron needed) was the very high rate of production of CS. Also, it is a higher use of the oven as they do change the characteristics of protein into something dangerous, i.e., carcinogenic. My wife thinks they're a godsend. I can't convince her of their intrinsic danger. I've told her that when the damn thing goes bad that I am not replacing it. Myself, I don't use it, even for heating water, since it changes the structure of the water. The microwave oven is another modern marvel that has lessened life. If CS is made with distilled water in a constant current device using four nines (99.99%) or better pure silver, it will be safe to consume. I use it to stop the progression of periodontal disease. I have a bad case of it. Also am using ozonated water. I have no problem with killing of friendly gut flora, but I do take a good probiotic to hedge my bets. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Joe Street mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Convert your Microwave oven to make Colloidal Silver OMG please don't do this! The capacitor in a microwave oven contains several joules of energy! This is sufficient to kill you and has done to more than one unsuspecting soul who has decided to tinker around inside the microwave oven. The article below even goes to the extent of warning you to discharge the cap before doing any
Re: [Biofuel] Convert your Microwave oven to make Colloidal Silver
If turn on the microwave and pull the plug while it's running that would discharge most if not all of the power in the capacitor I would think. A quick test from a meter would verify if it still had power or not. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk McLoren Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:19 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Convert your Microwave oven to make Colloidal Silver I think the commercial process was the Katadyne process. You pull an arc between two silver electrodes under distilled water and filter the result since you will have a mix of sizes. I think they use something around 30 to 60 volts. High amperage as you want a plasma. When it goes out you restrike. Kirk D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Joe, I would bring the oven to a shop that routinely repairs them to have that capacitor discharged safely. The thing with using the oven's electronics (no magnetron needed) was the very high rate of production of CS. Also, it is a higher use of the oven as they do change the characteristics of protein into something dangerous, i.e., carcinogenic. My wife thinks they're a godsend. I can't convince her of their intrinsic danger. I've told her that when the damn thing goes bad that I am not replacing it. Myself, I don't use it, even for heating water, since it changes the structure of the water. The microwave oven is another modern marvel that has lessened life. If CS is made with distilled water in a constant current device using four nines (99.99%) or better pure silver, it will be safe to consume. I use it to stop the progression of periodontal disease. I have a bad case of it. Also am using ozonated water. I have no problem with killing of friendly gut flora, but I do take a good probiotic to hedge my bets. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Joe Street mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Convert your Microwave oven to make Colloidal Silver OMG please don't do this! The capacitor in a microwave oven contains several joules of energy! This is sufficient to kill you and has done to more than one unsuspecting soul who has decided to tinker around inside the microwave oven. The article below even goes to the extent of warning you to discharge the cap before doing any assembly work but then it goes on at the end in bold red saying the danger is not in operating the beast but in its construction. It doesn't say anythingabout how you are supposed to discharge the cap before you try to remove the electrode from the jar! Trust me colloidal siver can be easily made using voltage as low as 20 volts and with current limiting. It will take a little longer (15 minutes) to make a batch ( I do half a litre at a time) but current limiting is important because it keeps particle size down in the low nanometer range where it needs to be in order to make a good colloid. I use a little wall wart type transformer for this. Half a litre IS high volume. Considering that the most effective way to use the stuff is to put it in a nasal sprayer and use it directly on ther mucous linings at THE FIRST SIGN of a sore throat ( not effective at later stages) and you are using perhaps 1ml at a time, half a litre will last your entire family a year or more. DON'T drink the stuff unless you want to kill off beneficial bacteria in your GI tract. Pink eye is easily and quickly cured with repeated misting of the open eye, but again it is working on contact. There are many other uses for the stuff which I won't get into but it is basically a powerful anit-bacterial which works on contact against single celled organisms. The internals of microwave ovens are extremely unforgiving and even for the initiated there is no room for error or absent mindedness. Joe D. Mindock wrote: Build Your Own High-Volume Colloidal Silver Maker You want a plague-ready machine that'll make about 40 quarts of strong Colloidal Silver an hour, that you can easily build in an hour for about $38?? I've built many now for people and I'll tell you how to make yours. This is about the simplest colloidal silver maker you could build. The unit makes 1 liter of roughly 40 PPM CS in 1.5 minutes or less using reverse osmosis water; with this kind of power, continuous production is possible with a spaghetti tube adding and removing water at a trickle. The primarily ionic silver
Re: [Biofuel] Splenda Explodes Internally, Says Chemist
Yeah, I guess my mind was not working I see that now. Thanks Loagn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Mindock Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:05 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Splenda Explodes Internally, Says Chemist Let's see. If it cost each American one dollar per year that'd be 300,000,000 dollars annually. I think your math is a little off. Peace, D. Mindock Not trying to be too much of a smartass, but 300 million Americans, 187 million annually =623 thousand per an American annually That's a little off somewhere. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Mindock Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 11:34 PM To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Subject: [Biofuel] Splenda Explodes Internally, Says Chemist Splenda Explodes Internally, Says Chemist By Shane Ellison, M.Sc. Copyright 2006C _www.healthmyths.net http://www.healthmyths.net/ http://www.healthmyths.net/ _ NewsWithViews.com 1-11-7 If there were a contest for the best example of total disregard for human life, the victor would be McNeil Nutritionals---makers of Splenda^(TM). Manufacturers of Vioxx^(TM) and Lipitor^(TM) would tie for a very distant second. McNeil Nutritionals is the undisputed drug-pushing champion for disguising their drug Splenda as a sweetener. Regardless of its drug qualities and potential for side effects, McNeil is dead set on putting it on every kitchen table in America. Apparently, Vioxx and Lipitor makers can't stoop so low as to deceptively masquerade their drug as a candy of sort. There is no question that their products are drugs and by definition come with negative side effects. Rather than sell directly to the consumer, these losers have to go through the painful process of using doctors to prescribe their dangerous goods. A keen student in corporate drug dealing, McNeil learned from aspartame and saccharine pushers that if a drug tastes sweet, then let the masses eat it in their cake. First though, you have to create a facade of natural health. They did this using a cute trade name that kind of sounds like splendid and packaged it in pretty colors. Hypnotized, the masses were duped instantly. As unquestionably as a dog humps your leg, millions of diabetics (and non-diabetics) blindly eat sucralose under the trade name Splenda in place of real sugar (sucrose). Splenda was strategically released on April fool's day in 1998. This day is reserved worldwide for hoaxes and practical jokes on friends and family, the aim of which is to embarrass the gullible. McNeil certainly succeeded. The splendid Splenda hoax is costing gullible Americans $187 million annually*^1 *. While many people wonder about the safety of Splenda, they rarely question it. Despite its many unknowns and inherent dangers, Splenda demand has grown faster than its supply. No longer do I have to question my faith in fellow Man. He is not a total idiot, just a gullible one. McNeil jokesters are laughing all the way to the bank. Splenda is not as harmless as McNeil wants you to believe. A mixture of sucralose, maltodextrine, and dextrose (a detrimental simple sugar), each of the not-so-splendid Splenda ingredients has downfalls. Aside from the fact that it really isn't sugar and calorie free, here is one big reason to avoid the deceitful mix . . . think April fool's day: Splenda contains a potential poison---the drug sucralose. This chemical is 600 times sweeter than sugar. To make sucralose, chlorine is used. Chlorine has a split personality. It can be harmless or it can be life threatening. In combo with sodium, chlorine forms a harmless ionic bond to yield table salt. Sucralose makers often highlight this worthless fact to defend its safety. Apparently, they missed the second day of Chemistry 101---the day they teach covalent bonds. When used with carbon, the chlorine atom in sucralose forms a covalent bond. The end result is the historically deadly organochlorine or simply: a Really-Nasty Form of Chlorine (RNFOC). Unlike ionic bonds, covalently bound chlorines are a big no-no for the human body. They yield insecticides, pesticides, and herbicides---not something you want in the lunch box of your precious child. It's therefore no surprise that the originators of sucralose, chemists Hough and Phadnis, were attempting to design new insecticides when they discovered it! It wasn't until the young Phadnis accidentally tasted his new insecticide that he learned it was sweet. And because sugars are more profitable than insecticides, the whole insecticide idea got canned and a new sweetener called Splenda got packaged. To hide its origin, Splenda pushers assert that sucralose is made from sugar so it tastes like sugar. Sucralose is as close to sugar as Windex^(TM) is to ocean water. The RNFOC poses a real and present danger
Re: [Biofuel] Splenda Explodes Internally, Says Chemist
Not trying to be too much of a smartass, but 300 million Americans, 187 million annually =623 thousand per an American annually That's a little off somewhere. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Mindock Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 11:34 PM To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Subject: [Biofuel] Splenda Explodes Internally, Says Chemist Splenda Explodes Internally, Says Chemist By Shane Ellison, M.Sc. Copyright 2006C _www.healthmyths.net http://www.healthmyths.net/ http://www.healthmyths.net/ _ NewsWithViews.com 1-11-7 If there were a contest for the best example of total disregard for human life, the victor would be McNeil Nutritionals---makers of Splenda^(TM). Manufacturers of Vioxx^(TM) and Lipitor^(TM) would tie for a very distant second. McNeil Nutritionals is the undisputed drug-pushing champion for disguising their drug Splenda as a sweetener. Regardless of its drug qualities and potential for side effects, McNeil is dead set on putting it on every kitchen table in America. Apparently, Vioxx and Lipitor makers can't stoop so low as to deceptively masquerade their drug as a candy of sort. There is no question that their products are drugs and by definition come with negative side effects. Rather than sell directly to the consumer, these losers have to go through the painful process of using doctors to prescribe their dangerous goods. A keen student in corporate drug dealing, McNeil learned from aspartame and saccharine pushers that if a drug tastes sweet, then let the masses eat it in their cake. First though, you have to create a facade of natural health. They did this using a cute trade name that kind of sounds like splendid and packaged it in pretty colors. Hypnotized, the masses were duped instantly. As unquestionably as a dog humps your leg, millions of diabetics (and non-diabetics) blindly eat sucralose under the trade name Splenda in place of real sugar (sucrose). Splenda was strategically released on April fool's day in 1998. This day is reserved worldwide for hoaxes and practical jokes on friends and family, the aim of which is to embarrass the gullible. McNeil certainly succeeded. The splendid Splenda hoax is costing gullible Americans $187 million annually*^1 *. While many people wonder about the safety of Splenda, they rarely question it. Despite its many unknowns and inherent dangers, Splenda demand has grown faster than its supply. No longer do I have to question my faith in fellow Man. He is not a total idiot, just a gullible one. McNeil jokesters are laughing all the way to the bank. Splenda is not as harmless as McNeil wants you to believe. A mixture of sucralose, maltodextrine, and dextrose (a detrimental simple sugar), each of the not-so-splendid Splenda ingredients has downfalls. Aside from the fact that it really isn't sugar and calorie free, here is one big reason to avoid the deceitful mix . . . think April fool's day: Splenda contains a potential poison---the drug sucralose. This chemical is 600 times sweeter than sugar. To make sucralose, chlorine is used. Chlorine has a split personality. It can be harmless or it can be life threatening. In combo with sodium, chlorine forms a harmless ionic bond to yield table salt. Sucralose makers often highlight this worthless fact to defend its safety. Apparently, they missed the second day of Chemistry 101---the day they teach covalent bonds. When used with carbon, the chlorine atom in sucralose forms a covalent bond. The end result is the historically deadly organochlorine or simply: a Really-Nasty Form of Chlorine (RNFOC). Unlike ionic bonds, covalently bound chlorines are a big no-no for the human body. They yield insecticides, pesticides, and herbicides---not something you want in the lunch box of your precious child. It's therefore no surprise that the originators of sucralose, chemists Hough and Phadnis, were attempting to design new insecticides when they discovered it! It wasn't until the young Phadnis accidentally tasted his new insecticide that he learned it was sweet. And because sugars are more profitable than insecticides, the whole insecticide idea got canned and a new sweetener called Splenda got packaged. To hide its origin, Splenda pushers assert that sucralose is made from sugar so it tastes like sugar. Sucralose is as close to sugar as Windex^(TM) is to ocean water. The RNFOC poses a real and present danger to all Splenda users. It is risky because the RNFOC confers a molecule with a set of super powers that wreak havoc on the human body. For example, Agent Orange, used in the U.S. Army's herbicidal warfare program, is a RNFOC. Exposure can lead to Hodgkin's lymphoma and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, as well as diabetes and various forms of cancer! Other shocking examples are the war gas phosgene, chlordane, and lindane*^2 *. The RNFOC is lethal because it allows poisons to be fat soluble
[Biofuel] ffa in biodiesel
After methanol recovery if acid was added it would split the soaps into ffa and salts. Then washing should remove the salts and lower the acidity with very little if any soap in the wash water. It might reduce washing to 1 cycle per a batch. And would be safer to dispose of because no soap just salt and a slightly acidic ph. Would the ffa mixed with biodiesel be a problem? I would imagine that since we burn ffa attached to methanol then ffa by themselves should burn, and when mixed with biodiesel they should burn even better. Has anyone tried this or have any thoughts on it? I do acid/base method on anything that titrates 3.0 or higher so my ffa level should be very low. Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Soap formation
If you have a complete reaction to biodiesel will soap form from the biodiesel? I mean if you put lye and water into it would it form soap or would it be incapable of forming soap? Logan vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Doesn't castor oil absorb alcohol? If so the heat would cause the alcohol to evaporate out of the water, but it would combine with the Castor oil. That should raise the alcohol boiling point. Maybe once the Castor oil becomes saturated with alcohol then any remaining alcohol would appear on the surface. Also maybe raising the temp more but keeping it under water's boiling point would cause it to boil out of the castor oil, but keep the water below the castor. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 8:23 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol) Hi Tom Well I put a couple of bottles of my hooch in a flask and dumped enough castor oil on top to form a layer about 2cm thick. Heated to 60 degrees C and started to nod off while waiting for something to happen. So I went to bed and left the hot plate on overnight..well in the morning..I crept downstairsfull of anticipation, like a child on Chritmas morning and..there was this collosal.huge...disappointment. There was nothing interesting. Even though I had crossed my heart and hoped to die. So I reduced the oil layer to about 2mm to try again. It is stormy here today and the temperature controller I am using is digital and uses pulse control for power modulation with a solid state relay. I didn't feel comfortable leaving the experiment running while I went to work in case of a surge on the electrical which could result in the loss of the relay and the hot plate then running full blast so I shut it down. I'll try again over the weekend if I can. It looks like the diffusion rate of alcohol through the castor oil is depressingly slow. It may still work though but may require a lot of time. If so it might be a candidate for some type of solar heated affair that you just let sit for days. Dunno. It's no majik bullet at least. Maybe seives is still the best bet. Haven't tried corn grits yet either Joe Thomas Kelly wrote: Joe, What's the word? I've had my fingers, eyes,and heart (?) crossed for days now . on the edge of my seat, waiting a shivers for the results of the castor oil screen/ pinot noir experiment. My fingers and eyes are holding up but my heart is starting to cramp up. Encouraging? Discouraging? Inconclusive? If I recall correctly, any response with the term bat guano in it means Sorry, I don't want to talk about it. Tom - Original Message - From: Joe Street mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol) Hi Tom; Yes you got the idea I am thinking about. I worked a bit on the setup last night. I've got some old pinot noir I made a few years back ( which is a difficult grape at the best of times) which is a bout a on the dryness scale. I'll take a bottle or two and put it in a flask and pour in some castor oil which will float on the surface. Since the flask narrows at the top it won't take too much castor oil to form the barrier layer. I'll heat to just below the boiling point and see what happens. Perhaps the alcohol molecules will drag some water with them as you said. The only way to know is to find out. In the very least I'll have some high potency ethanol for making herbal tinctures. If I'm lucky I'll have dry ethanol!! Fingers crossed, eyes crossed, heart crossed, hoping to find out. Tirah Joe Thomas Kelly wrote: Hi Joe, I didn't follow you when you wrote: I am really curious about the castor oil trick. I wonder how to do it? I think the methanol I have recovered is already over 90% pure and I think the castor oil would sink to the bottom. If there was a high percentage of water the oil would float on top and you could do something like normal distillation through the oil layer evaporating pure alcohol off the top of the oil layer and gradually removing it from the water below. I haven't done any experiments yet. Of course the goal is to move to ethyl eventually as well. I thought the idea was to dissolve the distilled alcohol in castor oil, then remove the water that does not dissolve and then proceed to distill the alcohol from the castor oil. This would require alcohol to be highly soluble in castor oil (or a lot of castor oil). The more soluble, I think
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol Price Increase?
My price went from 2.02 a gallon last month to 3.08 a gallon this month Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andres Secco Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 7:51 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol Price Increase? Think methanol price is strongly dependant of natural gas price which is linked to fuel prices. - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 10:14 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Methanol Price Increase? Hello All, Did I miss the news? Has there been a significant increase in the price of methanol recently? I just got the bill for a delivery (two 55gal barrels). Previous price ( July): $2.60 USD/gallon; current bill: $3.54 USD/ gallon 35% increase in a few months? I'll call my supplier in a little while ... maybe it's just a billing mistake. I am just hoping someone has some info. Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Visita www.tutopia.com http://www.tutopia.com/bannerserving/banman.asp?ZoneID=0BannerID=3174Adve rtiserID=776CampaignID=2424Task=ClickMode=TEXT y comienza a navegar más rápido en Internet. Tutopia es Internet para todos. http://www.tutopia.com/bannerserving/banman.asp?ZoneID=0BannerID=3494Adve rtiserID=776CampaignID=2739Task=GetMode=TEXT ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] A.O.C.S. glycerol method
Does anyone here, know or have acess to the AOCS method for determing total glycerine? If you do could you tell me how to perform it? Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] NREL Bio-Diesel Analytical Methods August 2002-Jan 2004.
This Is a Huge Information Resource. Anyone interested in doing some better home testing with minimal investment should look at this. Or just if you're interested in what is happening when ASTM testing occurs. Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Bio-Diesel Slogan any thoughts
Bio-Diesel, Runs more like petro-Diesel. Just Without belching out black smoke and without the chemical smell. Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] new alcohol ideas
Would glycerin dissolve in the castor oil or not? If not then castor oil added to glycerin cocktail should cause the methanol to dissolve in it and then the methanol can be recovered water free from the castor oil instead of separating it from the glycerin. It would take much less energy to recover it in that method. Verses cooking it out of the glycerin. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bob allen Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 2:16 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] new alcohol ideas Howdy Jason, there would be no advantage. In the ethanol/water/castor oil scheme, one mixes E/W/C. only ethanol dissolves in the castor oil. then heating the C/E mix to about 80 degrees C separates the ethanol from the castor oil. what this does is get around the problem of the azeotrope of ethanol/water which is the lowest boiling component of a mix of water/ethanol. You can't separate the last 5% of water from ethanol via distillation. for glycerin this isn't an issue, just heat the stuff to close to 300 degrees C. anything that boils off at a lower temp is impurity, after is glycerin. (short form of discussion) Jason Katie wrote: i just had a bizarre idea. someone please argue with me on this, but if glycerine is categorized as an alcohol, would it work to use castor oil to purify it, the same as ethanol? ideas?comments? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Bob Allen, http://ozarker.org/bob = The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11
I know nothing about buildings like that, most of my work involved things going down into the water, not up. But thanks for the heads up. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 7:06 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11 Quoting Logan vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It's amazing that the Weight of the airplane alone was enough to not cause the building to collapse in my opinion. Without going into the nity grity of structural design, dead load, live load, second order effect, dynamics, load factoring, material capacity reduction etc etc, take my word for it, if the fire hadn't happened, the building would have hardly noticed the impact. Repairs would have taken 6 months and then you would probably not even know the impact had happened. Andrew Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of robert and benita rabello Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 3:35 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11 Kirk McLoren wrote: [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11
Hey Terry, The first thing I said is there is a ton of very suspicious unanswered questions, but I was just saying I can understand how the building would have gotten hot enough to have molten steel. A lot of shit happened that day that no one wants to be let out. Right down to the people who were in the tower steeling money from their businesses and disappearing forever. The money was thought to be incinerated or lost in the rubble, and the same for the people. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Dyck Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 1:08 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11 Hi Logan, What about the building that was not hit by a jet, the building that housed all of the investigative people who were close to exposing a stock market cover up, it fell to the ground just like the twin towers? Terry Dyck From: Logan vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:27:47 -0500 D. Mindock, I agree with you for the most part there are a ton of very suspicious unanswered questions. There are 2 things you say that I can understand and contradict. I don't know how hot the temps were recorded in the rubble. So you might prove me wrong, but with decent airflow and enough fuel anything can create very hot temps. I do metal casting I've been doing it for about 3 years now in my backyard. Look up the Dave gingery book series or even Lindsey books. When I started I used 1 thick fence boards cut into 4-6 x6 sections. 3 at a time in my firepot, with a blow drier feeding it air and that was enough heat to melt steel reliably. It took about 1/2 hour and 9-12 pieces of wood to melt 12LB's of steel to a reasonable casting tempeture. 2700F or better. The towers would have had huge ventilation shafts running up and down, it also had 8 elevator shafts if I remember right. A plane holds thousands of gallons of fuel, then the building it crashed into was at least half burnable material between desks, paper, and all the other stuff inside. That stuff is spread out with a large room for airflow around it causing it to burn fast and extremely hot. Heat rises up those shafts and it sucks air into the bottom of the fire and in the side that the plane entered. The best places to give the fire fuel. Those temps could have easily been 3000F or higher. Then even if the temps were not that high. Look at house fires. The temp of wood on fire is about 300f. But once it has that heat input for long enough the room will reach temps of 1200f making the room flash over and everything in it burns. The World Trade Center towers would have kept that temp in as the fires sucked in air. The floors above the fire would have gradually taken in BTU's with out anything to cool them off until the metal melted. In the end with a big pile of rubble you can speculate what happened, but you just won't know unless you were there and saw it happen yourself. You also have to ask. If you don't believe what they're telling you about how it fell, or secondary explosions, then why do you even believe them when they say there's molten metal in the rubble or when they tell you how high the rubble temps were. For that matter Why do you believe that planes hit them at all. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Mindock Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 3:27 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11 Robert, The towers and bldg 7 are just part of a larger puzzle. You want to believe the buildings all fell down the same exact way, go ahead. But what of the numerous explosions throughout the buildings after they were hit by the airliners and before they fell? What about the molten steel found in the basement? What about the puffs of smoke on the floor levels below the falling floors above? What about the very high temperatures recorded in the rubble, much higher than jet fuel is capable? Why did bldg 7 fall in the same manner as the towers even though its construction was not the same as the towers? Your Occam's Razor is being severely overused. And the towers were a minor part of 9/11's strange occurances. What about Able Danger? Why was this info ignored by the 9/11 Commission? Etc., etc. You need to look at the whole series of bizarre dots to get the whole picture. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11 Kirk McLoren wrote: To fall straight down means the failures supposedly caused by heat all happened at the same time. In the real world they lean
Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11
D. Mindock, I agree with you for the most part there are a ton of very suspicious unanswered questions. There are 2 things you say that I can understand and contradict. I don't know how hot the temps were recorded in the rubble. So you might prove me wrong, but with decent airflow and enough fuel anything can create very hot temps. I do metal casting I've been doing it for about 3 years now in my backyard. Look up the Dave gingery book series or even Lindsey books. When I started I used 1 thick fence boards cut into 4-6 x6 sections. 3 at a time in my firepot, with a blow drier feeding it air and that was enough heat to melt steel reliably. It took about 1/2 hour and 9-12 pieces of wood to melt 12LB's of steel to a reasonable casting tempeture. 2700F or better. The towers would have had huge ventilation shafts running up and down, it also had 8 elevator shafts if I remember right. A plane holds thousands of gallons of fuel, then the building it crashed into was at least half burnable material between desks, paper, and all the other stuff inside. That stuff is spread out with a large room for airflow around it causing it to burn fast and extremely hot. Heat rises up those shafts and it sucks air into the bottom of the fire and in the side that the plane entered. The best places to give the fire fuel. Those temps could have easily been 3000F or higher. Then even if the temps were not that high. Look at house fires. The temp of wood on fire is about 300f. But once it has that heat input for long enough the room will reach temps of 1200f making the room flash over and everything in it burns. The World Trade Center towers would have kept that temp in as the fires sucked in air. The floors above the fire would have gradually taken in BTU's with out anything to cool them off until the metal melted. In the end with a big pile of rubble you can speculate what happened, but you just won't know unless you were there and saw it happen yourself. You also have to ask. If you don't believe what they're telling you about how it fell, or secondary explosions, then why do you even believe them when they say there's molten metal in the rubble or when they tell you how high the rubble temps were. For that matter Why do you believe that planes hit them at all. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Mindock Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 3:27 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11 Robert, The towers and bldg 7 are just part of a larger puzzle. You want to believe the buildings all fell down the same exact way, go ahead. But what of the numerous explosions throughout the buildings after they were hit by the airliners and before they fell? What about the molten steel found in the basement? What about the puffs of smoke on the floor levels below the falling floors above? What about the very high temperatures recorded in the rubble, much higher than jet fuel is capable? Why did bldg 7 fall in the same manner as the towers even though its construction was not the same as the towers? Your Occam's Razor is being severely overused. And the towers were a minor part of 9/11's strange occurances. What about Able Danger? Why was this info ignored by the 9/11 Commission? Etc., etc. You need to look at the whole series of bizarre dots to get the whole picture. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11 Kirk McLoren wrote: To fall straight down means the failures supposedly caused by heat all happened at the same time. In the real world they lean to the failed side and then forces cause more failures. It is a very tricky business making them fall straight down. But the dust prevented observers from actually witnessing the manner in which the lower floors fell. Additionally, ALL of the force that destroyed the towers came from the mass of upper floor falling directly on top of lower floors--kind of like crushing a soda can underfoot. It's not difficult to understand how this happened, unless one is UNWILLING to accept the simplest, most straightforward explanation. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel for heating
You can not make biodiesel using only 10% Methanol. A chemical reaction requires things to be just right, which requires a little more then is actually needed no get the mixtures where they need to be. Also the amount of Glycerin in your triglyceride is often more then 10% of the entire thing. The only result you will get with 10% methanol is partial Biodiesel, partial monoglycerides, partial diglycerides, and partial base oil. Then you are reprocessing everything except the biodiesel and spending more time and money to get the same result. Your best bet is to set up a methanol recovery system if you are worried about the extra money involved in using the extra methanol. Either way it just will not be complete the reaction if you don't use 20% methanol. I find that if you do your 20% calculations by weight instead of volume there are more consistent and better results. That normally is 22-23% methanol per a batch. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:00 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] biodiesel for heating is there anybody out there who makes biodiesel for home heating using only 10% methanol instead of the prescribed 20%? if so can you give any tips on differences in processing as i am about to begin making test and then 90 liter batches soon? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11
It's amazing that the Weight of the airplane alone was enough to not cause the building to collapse in my opinion. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of robert and benita rabello Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 3:35 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11 Kirk McLoren wrote: Unfortunately since you arent qualified to judge what you read you accept information based on authority. What nonsense!!! Wrap your mind around something written by an engineering firm: DID THE WORLD TRADE CENTER TOWERS ACTUALLY IMPLODE? No. They collapsed in an uncontrolled fashion, causing extensive damage to surrounding structures, roadways and utilities. Although when viewed from a distance the towers appeared to have telescoped almost straight down, a closer look at video replays reveal sizeable portions of each building breaking free during the collapse, with the largest sections--some as tall as 30 or 40 stories--actually laying out in several directions. The outward failure of these sections is believed to have caused much of the significant damage to adjacent structures, and smaller debris caused structural and cosmetic damage to hundreds of additional buildings around the perimeter of the site. WHY DID THEY COLLAPSE? Each 110-story tower contained a central steel core surrounded by open office space, with 18-inch steel tubes running vertically along the outside of the building. These structural elements provided the support for the building, and most experts agree that the planes impacting the buildings alone would not have caused them to collapse. The intense heat from the burning jet fuel, however, gradually softened the steel core and redistributed the weight to the outer tubes, which were slowly deformed by the added weight and the heat of the fire. Eventually, the integrity of these tubes was compromised to the point where they buckled under the weight of the higher floors, causing a gravitational chain reaction that continued until all of the floors were at ground level. DID THE TERRORISTS PLANT ANY BOMBS IN THE BUILDINGS IN ADVANCE TO GUARANTEE THEIR DEMISE? To our knowledge there is no evidence whatsoever to support this assertion. Analysis of video and photographs of both towers clearly shows that the initial structural failure occurred at or near the points where the planes impacted the buildings. Furthermore, there is no visible or audible indication that explosives or any other supplemental catalyst was used in the attack. HOW DOES THIS EVENT COMPARE WITH A NORMAL BUILDING IMPLOSION? The only correlation is that in a very broad sense, explosive devices (airplanes loaded with fuel) were used to intentionally bring down buildings. However it can be argued that even this vague similarity relates more to military explosive demolition than to building implosions, which specifically involve the placement of charges at key points within a structure to precipitate the failure of steel or concrete supports within their own footprint. The other primary difference between these two types of operations is that implosions are universally conducted with the utmost concern for adjacent properties and human safety---elements that were horrifically absent from this event. Therefore we can conclude that what happened in New York was not a building implosion. You won't likely be happy with this, but that's because you're looking for a conspiracy that is far better explained by ineptitude. That is a close second to voting on the truth. It seems odd you see organised control in the hydrocarbon industry yet the possibility of a Pearl Harbor type episode in the 9-11 disaster is incomprehensible. No, it's not incomprehensible at all. We were attacked by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor. Airplanes filled the sky over Pearl Harbor and dropped torpedos and bombs on our ships. Many of those ships were sunk in the attack. There's a lot of evidence suggesting a degree of threat awareness at the upper echelons of government, but it wasn't staged by covert American intelligence operatives, the Mossad, or even a bunch of anti-government loonies. There was no conspiracy. There was a cause / effect relationship between Japanese torpedos, bombs and sunken ships. Likewise, we all witnessed airplanes being flown into buildings on September 11, 2001. Not long afterward, the buildings came down. The buildings did NOT come down until after the airplanes had flown into them. What's so hard for you to understand about this? Now, the question of who financed the operation and is ultimately responsible for the attack is one that has not been answered to my satisfaction. A lot of the facts don't add up, but in my mind, that's more of an indication of governmental blundering and butt-covering than a conspiracy. Did the current administration white wash facts
Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps
All new on road vehicles manufactured, for use in the US, in model year 2007 and up must have catalytic converts on them to help reduce exhaust emissions. That includes 18 wheelers. The high sulfur content will plug them; the ULSD will allow the use. Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of vin Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:37 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps Looks like what happened with leaded vs. unleaded gasoline fuel is happening with diesel... http://www.kentuckycleanfuels.org/biodiesel/ulsdupdate.pdf ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps
I have no clue what the effects are or any other little secrets used to make it more efficient. I would guess that bio-diesel does not cause a problem, or that the converters for diesel are different. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk McLoren Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 3:34 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps I assume air injection is incorporated. In that case they finish oxidising. Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does biodiesel do to the catalytic converters? No sulfur, but how about all the polyaromatic hydrocarbons? Z On 8/21/06, Logan Vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All new on road vehicles manufactured, for use in the US, in model year 2007 and up must have catalytic converts on them to help reduce exhaust emissions. That includes 18 wheelers. The high sulfur content will plug them; the ULSD will allow the use. Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of vin Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:37 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps Looks like what happened with leaded vs. unleaded gasoline fuel is happening with diesel... http://www.kentuckycleanfuels.org/biodiesel/ulsdupdate.pdf ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman7/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/ev t=39666/*http://messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Astroturf
I dont think Astroturf will work for biofuell production Logan Vilas From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk McLoren Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 12:43 PM To: biofuel Subject: [Biofuel] Astroturf Not new though see Kuwait comment.The gvt isnt concerned about what you think. They have created what you think.Kirk++| PR Firm Behind Al Gore YouTube Spoof? || from the new-intarweb-trolls dept. || posted by ScuttleMonkey on Sunday August 06, @18:11 (Republicans)|| http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/06/209244 |++mytrip writes to tell us ABC News is reporting that a supposed amateurvideo posted to YouTube.com may have actually been designed and posted bya Republican [0]public relations firm called DCI. From the article:Public relations firms have long used computer technology to createbogus grassroots campaigns, which are called 'Astroturf.' Now these firmsare being hired to push illusions on the Internet to create the falseimpression of real people blogging, e-mailing and making films.Discuss this story at: http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=06/08/06/209244Links: 0. http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2273111page=1 In fact, the most emotionally moving testimony on October 10 came from a 15-year-old Kuwaiti girl, known only by her first name of Nayirah. According to the Caucus, Nayirah's full name was being kept confidential to prevent Iraqi reprisals against her family in occupied Kuwait. Sobbing, she described what she had seen with her own eyes in a hospital in Kuwait City. Her written testimony was passed out in a media kit prepared by Citizens for a Free Kuwait. I volunteered at the al-Addan hospital, Nayirah said. While I was there, I saw the Iraqi soldiers come into the hospital with guns, and go into the room where . . . babies were in incubators. They took the babies out of the incubators, took the incubators, and left the babies on the cold floor to die.83 Three months passed between Nayirah's testimony and the start of the war. During those months, the story of babies torn from their incubators was repeated over and over again. President Bush told the story. It was recited as fact in Congressional testimony, on TV and radio talk shows, and at the UN Security Council. Of all the accusations made against the dictator, MacArthur observed, none had more impact on American public opinion than the one about Iraqi soldiers removing 312 babies from their incubators and leaving them to die on the cold hospital floors of Kuwait City.84 At the Human Rights Caucus, however, Hill Knowlton and Congressman Lantos had failed to reveal that Nayirah was a member of the Kuwaiti Royal Family. Her father, in fact, was Saud Nasir al-Sabah, Kuwait's Ambassador to the US, who sat listening in the hearing room during her testimony. The Caucus also failed to reveal that HK vice-president Lauri Fitz-Pegado had coached Nayirah in what even the Kuwaitis' own investigators later confirmed was false testimony. Why keep checking for Mail? The all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta shows you when there are new messages. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fluorescent fuel?
I was not trying to say anyone is right or wrong. I was just asking if that was logical, because it makes sense to me. I also think that the roots and shoots probably don't use nearly the co2 as would go into the seed production, but it is still potentially co2 negative. I don't think the few plants we grow or that small portion of roots and shoots is going to make a difference. It took millions of years without the use of plants in any way to build up deep in the ground. And in the last 50-100 years we've managed to release most of it back into the atmosphere. On top of that we've greatly reduced the area to grow the plants that are needed to remove co2. An interesting study would be to track the ppm co2 from year to year in a sample of air. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 10:35 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fluorescent fuel? Yes that's true. Depending on what happens to the remains of the plant it may stay sequestered. My point was that with the current carbon economy and what we currently have with climate change, carbon neutral ideologies do not do anything to reverse the problem but have the potential to stabilize and maintain things the way they are. But you are right this may be slightly carbon negative which is what we really need. Joe Logan Vilas wrote: The plants require co2 for all of their growth, stem, seeds, leaves, roots and we only use a portion of the plant for making fuels. Wouldn't that left over part of the plant be using more co2 then is put out by the burning of the oil? Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bob allen Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:23 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fluorescent fuel? only in that the process in theory is carbon neutral, and replaces fossil fuel which is carbon positive. first we stop increasing the CO2... Joe Street wrote: So if we use a plant to remove CO2 from the atmosphere and that plant makes oil that we then burn and release CO2 to the atmosphere how is that supposed to reduce atmospheric CO2? Joe Bob Molloy wrote: snip Phytoplankton, like other plants, absorb carbon dioxide as they grow. Scientists have examined the possibility of stimulating growth of the single cell plants as a means of reducing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. CO2, liberated by burning fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas, is widely held responsible for global warming. Bio Fuel Systems said its new fuel would reduce CO2, was free of other contaminants like sulphur dioxide and would be cheaper than fossil oil is now. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fluorescent fuel?
The plants require co2 for all of their growth, stem, seeds, leaves, roots and we only use a portion of the plant for making fuels. Wouldn't that left over part of the plant be using more co2 then is put out by the burning of the oil? Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bob allen Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:23 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fluorescent fuel? only in that the process in theory is carbon neutral, and replaces fossil fuel which is carbon positive. first we stop increasing the CO2... Joe Street wrote: So if we use a plant to remove CO2 from the atmosphere and that plant makes oil that we then burn and release CO2 to the atmosphere how is that supposed to reduce atmospheric CO2? Joe Bob Molloy wrote: snip Phytoplankton, like other plants, absorb carbon dioxide as they grow. Scientists have examined the possibility of stimulating growth of the single cell plants as a means of reducing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. CO2, liberated by burning fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas, is widely held responsible for global warming. Bio Fuel Systems said its new fuel would reduce CO2, was free of other contaminants like sulphur dioxide and would be cheaper than fossil oil is now. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Hey Doug,
I have some small machine equipment and some reasonable priced
machine shops in my area, If I can't make it I'm sure I can have it made. I
am interested in stirling engines for the exact same use. If the plans look
good to me I might be willing to build a prototype at my expense and will
gladly let you know how it works or possibly ship it for your testing.
Everyone Else,
http://www.lindsaybks.com/
This Site Has some great books at really good prices, I highly
recommend the Dave Gingery Series. It includes Sand Casting, Making a Metal
Shaper, Lathe, Milling machine, Drill Press, Accessories, and Sheet Metal
Brake from scrap. The plans can be size up easily and everything can be done
really low budget. There is also many other books, all the ones I've gotten
have been on metal working. Right now I'm working on a furnace that will
hold 75lbs of molten aluminum, and turn around the spot. From one of the
local machine shops I have a supply of about 400lbs of alum turnings a month
all I have to do is go pick them up. They use only 6061 and have one machine
that turns out the same part 8 hours a day 7 days a week. So it's a good
clean source for strong castings.
Logan Vilas
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of doug swanson
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 7:14 PM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US
could be going bankrupt
I agree that in tight times, basic or even primitive skills are more
valuable than gold. Basics in Agriculture, animal husbandry, health
maintenance, knowing how to preserve food without supplies you'd have to
get at a grocer's store, blacksmithing, wood working, etc. are all
skills that should be present in what I see as being a new birth of
communities which will establish themselves once TEOTWAWKI happens.
Energy systems can be a large part of this, since my wood heater
currently relies on a chainsaw to supply fuel, and my biodiesel relies
on restaurant wastes and petro-derived methanol, and industry produced
hydroxides, I still don't feel that my current situation is
sustainable. Solar makes a lot of sense in my location, and I've been
working in that direction, but with a twist. The 10' parabolic
collector can collect a lot of heat, and rather than convert it
immediately to electricity, which I'd then have to store in some sort of
battery (with all the problems that batteries come with, ie. disposal
when they don't work anymore, and then having to acquire new ones..., )
it makes better sense to store the heat from the collector in 55 gallon
drums of water, which can actually make up the rear greenhouse wall...
I've been studying Stirling engines for some time now, guess I've read
everything that Google can show me about them, crammed all the ideas
into my head, noted the major disadvantages of most of them, (They've
got to be airtight, precision power piston, most aren't self-starting,
etc...) and have come up with a design that addresses these problems,
and eliminates them by integrating much of the engine into 3 moving
parts. Heat goes in, electricity comes out. I really would like to
build the prototype, but can't afford a machine shop to make a couple of
its parts. Maybe someone on this list has the right tools to make the
parts, and would like to see more detailed plans on this. Eventually,
when a working prototype is producing electricity, the plans with step
by step guidance will be under the open information license The point
of the whole system is that wherever possible, the parts should be stuff
that can be found at the junkyard, and that when completed, a home power
generation system is running for under 3-400 bucks. Adding another
collector just for home heat would be even simpler, under floor heat
circulation would increase the cost due to plumbing, thermostat control,
etc., but if the hot water was just circulated through a radiator
(junkyard again) with a fan behind it, the home could be comfortable
without huge expense.
The efficiency of a Stirling engine makes it a potential candidate for a
hybrid vehicle, and I've been working on something along that line also,
but first things first...
Any ideas are welcome, anything I can do to help pull us out of the mess
this planet is in, I will do.
doug swanson
Jason Katie wrote:
you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel, i
can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house,
furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty well
safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life
(CEO's
and politicians) that are screwed.
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Manesol pretreatment and washing
Chris, I'm guessing you did not titrate the used oil sample after adding Mangesol. If you could do that it would be intresting to see the results. And that should tell you definately if the FFA's have been neutralized. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Chris Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:14 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Manesol pretreatment and washing Been having a play with a bag of Magnesol this week with impressive resuts. I made a sample batch of diesel, went over the top with the lye by about 2 grams per litre. I added the magnesol powder to the finished, seperated diesel and mixed for about 5 minuites. I removed the magnesol by filtering thru coffee filters several times (it was quite difficult to get it all out without a fine enough filter). The result is crystal clear biodiesel. I mean CRYSTAL clear, much better than I have EVER been able to get with water washing. Adding water to the diesel yields quick seperation, clarity is still 100% and the wash water is perfectly clear. 10grams per litre of magnesol has removed EVERY trace of soap and contaminants. Lets just say I will no longer be water washing. The next experiment was based on the claims that magnesol neutralises FFA. I got 2 samples of WVO and filtered them. One 250ml sample was treated with about 1.5g of magnesol and mixed for abut 10 minuites. The magnesol was filtered out of the sample. BOTH samples were processed as new oil with 3.5g lye per litre and 250ml meth per litre. After seperation and cooling the pretreated sample is clear, and the byproduct is a redish colour. The untreated sample shows an uncomplete reaction and a very dark nearly black byproduct. I have yet to try water washing these samples. It appears that the magnesol pretreatment has removed the ffa content and then the oil has been able to be processed as new oil. It should be quite easy to integrate into a process by adding an arbitrary amount of magnesol to the feedstock and mixing, PH measurements will tell you if more needs to be added. The waste magnesol, according to manufactutrers literature, can be composted, put into landfill, and even used as animal feed. The magnesol washing could be integrated into a semi continuous process easily, which is why I am looking at it. Another comment is that when using it for washing biodiesel it also seems to remove colour and odour from the biodesel. The magnesol washed samples are always paler than the water washed samples. If the used magnesol is put into water it instantly goes cramy white, as it gives up the soaps etc that it has absorbed. Kieth, if you are interested I have some photos of the different samples tested and washed. Maybe you could incorporate something aout it into the JTF page? If anyone wants these photos emailed let me know! I was impressed. Chris Bennett ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Manesol pretreatment and washing
Synthetic Magnesium Silicate Adsorbent is white fine powder, amorphous, with vesicular structure and huge specific area, it is an amphoteric compound capable of adsorbing either acid or alkali metal catalyst. It is an efficient refining and purifying agent in the production of polyols for its excellent depicking, deodorizing, potassium ion adsorbing effects and function as filter medium. - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Manesol pretreatment and washing Joe Street wrote: I am interested in the pics. What is magnesol exactly? good question: MAGNESOL - (DP - 45) MAGNESIUM SILICATE, not much different than talc. but MAGNESOL® is based on a linear polyester imide resin. I suspect you want the former, not the latter. Also I just wanted to say FYI when you talk about crystal clarity it is anecdotal of course and DOES only give some info about particulate or emulsified contamination. A great way to detect very small levels of this type of contamination is to put a sample into a glass jar and in a darkened room shine a laser (pointer) through the BD. The beam should not be visible in the liquid. Note that this tells you nothing about trigliceride levels or methanol contamination but water content will give an indication above a certain level. Can magnesol be used to pretreat feedstock and be left in to settle out with the byproduct? Joe Chris Bennett wrote: Been having a play with a bag of Magnesol this week with impressive resuts. I made a sample batch of diesel, went over the top with the lye by about 2 grams per litre. I added the magnesol powder to the finished, seperated diesel and mixed for about 5 minuites. I removed the magnesol by filtering thru coffee filters several times (it was quite difficult to get it all out without a fine enough filter). The result is crystal clear biodiesel. I mean CRYSTAL clear, much better than I have EVER been able to get with water washing. Adding water to the diesel yields quick seperation, clarity is still 100% and the wash water is perfectly clear. 10grams per litre of magnesol has removed EVERY trace of soap and contaminants. Lets just say I will no longer be water washing. The next experiment was based on the claims that magnesol neutralises FFA. I got 2 samples of WVO and filtered them. One 250ml sample was treated with about 1.5g of magnesol and mixed for abut 10 minuites. The magnesol was filtered out of the sample. BOTH samples were processed as new oil with 3.5g lye per litre and 250ml meth per litre. After seperation and cooling the pretreated sample is clear, and the byproduct is a redish colour. The untreated sample shows an uncomplete reaction and a very dark nearly black byproduct. I have yet to try water washing these samples. It appears that the magnesol pretreatment has removed the ffa content and then the oil has been able to be processed as new oil. It should be quite easy to integrate into a process by adding an arbitrary amount of magnesol to the feedstock and mixing, PH measurements will tell you if more needs to be added. The waste magnesol, according to manufactutrers literature, can be composted, put into landfill, and even used as animal feed. The magnesol washing could be integrated into a semi continuous process easily, which is why I am looking at it. Another comment is that when using it for washing biodiesel it also seems to remove colour and odour from the biodesel. The magnesol washed samples are always paler than the water washed samples. If the used magnesol is put into water it instantly goes cramy white, as it gives up the soaps etc that it has absorbed. Kieth, if you are interested I have some photos of the different samples tested and washed. Maybe you could incorporate something aout it into the JTF page? If anyone wants these photos emailed let me know! I was impressed. Chris Bennett ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
The best heat transfer pastes for processors has silver in it and I belive silver is conductive. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules aha, this is where i find a new idea. the dielectric heat grease used between processors and heat sinks /should/ work to electrically insulate the cell from the water pack (not jackets, a flat sleeve covering the back with circulated coolant completely filling it) while conducting heat into the cooling vanes in the water pack, eliminating the risk of breakage, just as you say. the goop isnt exactly cheap, but it works rather effectively on high temp applications. - Original Message - From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules Silicon is quite fragile especially the thin polysilicon material used in cells. You are right but any water pressure would break the cells. You need to bond them onto a heat conducting back plate like copper or aluminum with a heat conducting cement. Aso the back is an electrical contact so you need isolation there. Joe Jason Katie wrote: in theory, if one could find a way to waterproof the back of a PV cell it could be used as the heat-side plate in this concentrator/boiler found at (or after) http://www.ida.net/users/tetonsl/solar/page_46.htm you could safely increase the power range of a smaller PV cell without too horrible of a heat loss. the problem is finding a sealing substance that wont melt or burn under these 1200*F temperatures. - Original Message - From: logan vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules I am working with the idea of building my own Concentrator with about 50 times the mirror space then collector space. That Is why the question was asked in the first place I was wondering if placeing a 50watt solar panel at the focal point would increase the power output. I've read that it is more then 100% liner increase in power output when increasing the amount of light on it. a normal panel at 50 watts would be 2500 watts at 50 suns. I know it would need to be kept cool. due to the fact that they are only 20-30% efficent, but I could use the coolant to heat my biodiesel processor, then the hot water going into my home before a tankless heater. If I were to get a grid tied inverter It would suppliment my normal power useage and maby with netmetering it might come close to canceling out my power requirements alltogther. a simple temp sensor could be used so if the temp is over 150f in the coolant it will shut down and not collect the sun anymore. As for a solar tracker that is relative easy with very simple electronics. The setup to hold everything would be a simple build for most people who can make their own biodiesel processor. And If I base it off a 7 meter dish I can get those free. I just have to use the labor to remove it. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules I am speaking mostly from experience, from what I have seen work and fail in the field, and what I can buy to install for my clients. The reason I talk about trackers on large poles is because that is what is commercially sold right now (at least in the US, europe is ahead of us in many areas). And the biggest reason I see for failed systems is lack of maintenance (mostly batteries, but also anything that moves). Also, the number of new innovative PV systems that I have seen come on the market over the years, only to dissapear within another year... We're still basically doing the same thing as PV was in the 70's, with incremental improvements in efficiency and incremental cost decreases. I called the concrentrating PV exotic merely because I can't call up one of 200 some suppliers and buy one that meets all current electrical code, whereas I can with silicon PV modules. Maybe another breakthrough is coming, but in the mean time, alot of people will keep using coal generated power because they are waiting for those breakthroughs. I would rather see working PV systems going in today, even if they aren't all that high tech, rather than people thinking they have to wait before solar energy can work for them -- and in the mean time continuing to support coal and oil. It's not that I want to limit the new technology, but what I have seen is that the layperson holds out the possibility of a paradigm shift in the technology in the future as a reason to do absolutely nothing now. And if I recall, the original question was about concentrating sunlight on a normal
[Biofuel] Thermal conductivity Please help
Thermal conductivity of silicone (300 K) 149 W/(m·K) Can anyone help me understand this. I've been trying to figure out how to read this equasion for 2 days and all I got was a headache. Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Thermal conductivity Please help
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:54 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Thermal conductivity Please help This means basically that at 300K average temperature, the thermal conductivity is 149 W/(m*K). What the proper units are is actually W*m/(sq meter *K). Two of the meters cancel out to leave just one on the bottom, but it's easier to think of it with them still in there. If you think about trying to calculate heat transfer in watts per square meter, you need to cancel out the m on top of the thermal conductivity, and the K on the bottom. So, you multiply the conductivity by the delta T in Kelvins, which cancels the K. And you divide it by the thickness of the silicon you are transferring heat through (because a thicker piece will transfer less heat), which cancels out the m on top. This leaves units of W/m^2 for the units of the answer, which is what we were looking for. If we want total watts, we can multiply by the area of the heat transfer area, and cancel out the m^2, and are left with just watts. On 5/16/06, logan vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thermal conductivity of silicone (300 K) 149 W/(m.K) Can anyone help me understand this. I've been trying to figure out how to read this equasion for 2 days and all I got was a headache. Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Thermal conductivity Please help
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:54 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Thermal conductivity Please help This means basically that at 300K average temperature, the thermal conductivity is 149 W/(m*K). What the proper units are is actually W*m/(sq meter *K). Two of the meters cancel out to leave just one on the bottom, but it's easier to think of it with them still in there. If you think about trying to calculate heat transfer in watts per square meter, you need to cancel out the m on top of the thermal conductivity, and the K on the bottom. So, you multiply the conductivity by the delta T in Kelvins, which cancels the K. And you divide it by the thickness of the silicon you are transferring heat through (because a thicker piece will transfer less heat), which cancels out the m on top. This leaves units of W/m^2 for the units of the answer, which is what we were looking for. If we want total watts, we can multiply by the area of the heat transfer area, and cancel out the m^2, and are left with just watts. On 5/16/06, logan vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thermal conductivity of silicone (300 K) 149 W/(m.K) Can anyone help me understand this. I've been trying to figure out how to read this equasion for 2 days and all I got was a headache. Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
The main concern would be thermal transfer rates of the materials that the cell is made out of and max temp the cell can handle. I know PV are made from silicone, but is there any more depective terms for the material? For example all Iron is not steel and every version of it has different thermal transfer rates. What is the maximum working temp of PV modules? From Those two things I can calculate the maximum amount of concentration that should work. Also approximately how large is a 50watt panel? I can pick a PV module then based on size and material thermal transfer I can calculate the thermal transfer it would have in BTUs. I would then divide by 3.4 and that's the number of watts it can have aimed at it. There's approximately 1000watts per square meter energy from the sun. The mirrors are about 92% reflective and I would figure there it going to be about 10% loss to heating the air between the PV and the mirrors. 82.8 percent of the energy will be transferred to the PV. That's 828watts per square meter of mirrors. Divide the thermal transfer by 828 and that's the max concentration that can be focused at that cell to keep it at the same temp as the input temp of the coolant you are using. The overall design should be engineered to keep the cell within working temp limits without loosing much of the power gain, so under 200F (I'm guessing), while being able to dissipate 100% of the heat that is concentrated. It would need to dissipate all the heat because of the chance that no electricity will be used and all the energy will become heat. When 20-30% of the energy is being turned into electricity then the cell temp will remain an equal percentage lower. At these temps it could be done with water and no additives, but a closed system with relief valve would be best otherwise the water would evaporate. I am thinking a closed loop system of filtered and dewatered UVO. I have firefighting material called fire blockade that can be added at 1% mixture and that will ensure the oil is nonflamiable. That would cause the fluid to not boil off or spontaneously combust. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 5:30 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules This is exactly what I did my master's thesis on. The concept works pretty well from a theoretical perspective. I was just investigating using water cooling for non-concrentrating PV, but it would work even better for concentrating PV. You shouldn't really have to deal with 1200F, at least if you are talking about water, because the maximum working temp for a water based fluid is probably about 400F or so?? (assuming antifreeze additives and increased pressure). Depends on how much pressure you are talking about I guess. On 5/13/06, Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in theory, if one could find a way to waterproof the back of a PV cell it could be used as the heat-side plate in this concentrator/boiler found at (or after) http://www.ida.net/users/tetonsl/solar/page_46.htm you could safely increase the power range of a smaller PV cell without too horrible of a heat loss. the problem is finding a sealing substance that wont melt or burn under these 1200*F temperatures. - Original Message - From: logan vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules I am working with the idea of building my own Concentrator with about 50 times the mirror space then collector space. That Is why the question was asked in the first place I was wondering if placeing a 50watt solar panel at the focal point would increase the power output. I've read that it is more then 100% liner increase in power output when increasing the amount of light on it. a normal panel at 50 watts would be 2500 watts at 50 suns. I know it would need to be kept cool. due to the fact that they are only 20-30% efficent, but I could use the coolant to heat my biodiesel processor, then the hot water going into my home before a tankless heater. If I were to get a grid tied inverter It would suppliment my normal power useage and maby with netmetering it might come close to canceling out my power requirements alltogther. a simple temp sensor could be used so if the temp is over 150f in the coolant it will shut down and not collect the sun anymore. As for a solar tracker that is relative easy with very simple electronics. The setup to hold everything would be a simple build for most people who can make their own biodiesel processor. And If I base it off a 7 meter dish I can get those free. I just have to use the labor to remove it. Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
I am working with the idea of building my own Concentrator with about 50 times the mirror space then collector space. That Is why the question was asked in the first place I was wondering if placeing a 50watt solar panel at the focal point would increase the power output. I've read that it is more then 100% liner increase in power output when increasing the amount of light on it. a normal panel at 50 watts would be 2500 watts at 50 suns. I know it would need to be kept cool. due to the fact that they are only 20-30% efficent, but I could use the coolant to heat my biodiesel processor, then the hot water going into my home before a tankless heater. If I were to get a grid tied inverter It would suppliment my normal power useage and maby with netmetering it might come close to canceling out my power requirements alltogther. a simple temp sensor could be used so if the temp is over 150f in the coolant it will shut down and not collect the sun anymore. As for a solar tracker that is relative easy with very simple electronics. The setup to hold everything would be a simple build for most people who can make their own biodiesel processor. And If I base it off a 7 meter dish I can get those free. I just have to use the labor to remove it. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules I am speaking mostly from experience, from what I have seen work and fail in the field, and what I can buy to install for my clients. The reason I talk about trackers on large poles is because that is what is commercially sold right now (at least in the US, europe is ahead of us in many areas). And the biggest reason I see for failed systems is lack of maintenance (mostly batteries, but also anything that moves). Also, the number of new innovative PV systems that I have seen come on the market over the years, only to dissapear within another year... We're still basically doing the same thing as PV was in the 70's, with incremental improvements in efficiency and incremental cost decreases. I called the concrentrating PV exotic merely because I can't call up one of 200 some suppliers and buy one that meets all current electrical code, whereas I can with silicon PV modules. Maybe another breakthrough is coming, but in the mean time, alot of people will keep using coal generated power because they are waiting for those breakthroughs. I would rather see working PV systems going in today, even if they aren't all that high tech, rather than people thinking they have to wait before solar energy can work for them -- and in the mean time continuing to support coal and oil. It's not that I want to limit the new technology, but what I have seen is that the layperson holds out the possibility of a paradigm shift in the technology in the future as a reason to do absolutely nothing now. And if I recall, the original question was about concentrating sunlight on a normal old PV module -- which isn't the best idea -- they tried that at the carrizo solar plant in the early 80's, and a few years later, a whole lot of used Mud-lams (because the encapsulant turned varying shades of brown) flooded the market for off-grid use. I do admit that this list's members are not your average layperson, and most of us won't just use the news of new inventions as an excuse for procrastinating, so I apologize for that. Zeke On 5/12/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By now, you may have noticed my resistance to conventional wisdom whenever someone gives negative feedback about a particular energy scheme. Here is an example. The idea of concentrating light onto PV cells is a relatively new idea in some circles. What to do about waste heat is a natural progression in the discussion of such technology. But, why is it seen as such an obstacle - especially when schemes for harvesting waste heat are so abundant in energy related discussions? You wrote: ...regular PV is cheap enough that the simplicity of not having moving parts will probably outweigh any advantage of trying to get more from the same amount of silicon. The sweeping statements are getting old Zeke. Adding trackers become advantageous when you run out of roof. By the way PV that works on concentrated sunlight isn't so exotic and will probably become the PV of choice in a large percentage of applications. The large cost of concentrating PV is likely to be offset by an increase in power conversion requiring the use of heliostats, tracking technology and those pesky moving parts. Mike Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most of the highest efficiency PV cells do use concentrators. These are the 35% efficient super exotic ones that NREL and others are working on. Compared to 20% which is about the highest commercial single sun efficiency right
[Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
Would a standard PV module produce more when used with a Solar Concentrator or does it require a special PV module? Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Water in recovered methanol?
You probably don't get all of the water out of the oil because when it mixes with the oil the boiling point is raised. It would probably take 230-240F with a vacuum to pull the water 100% out. Without the vacuum the water vapor will still condense slightely on the walls of your heating pot. During the reaction you also create water. The combination of these is still very small. It might be 1% water to recovered methanol for every batch, but the water is not being used in processingso the second batch will have 2% and it will add up. Logan Vilas From: Jonathan Schearer To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Water in recovered methanol? I am probably missing something, but where would the water be coming from in the first place? Isn't the waste oil you start with not supposed to contain any water, and if it does, you need to boil it off? Then there's the methanol. It should not contain any water either. I don't believe the catalyst would contain any water either. It is the waste glycerin layer that contains most of the methanol, correct? I have been told that the only stupid question is the one that isn't asked. So I'm asking...where is the water coming from?Michael Gian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In additon, a fractionating column requires a reflux, the partial return andrecycling of distillate product from the condenser back down thefractionatingcolumn which increases the energy tax (energy costs) of purifying themethanol.This is true for tray towers. A more elegant setup is a packedfractionating column, aka reflux column. Years ago we made one packed withsmall glass beads for jewelry, picked up cheap at a garage sale. Ethanolproduction, in this case not intended to fuel machinery. What works forethanol will work for methanol, probably better, given no water azeotrope.Alcohol Fuel Manual Ch11 has the poop.Michael GianMike McGinnessbob allen wrote: without getting into excessive detail, the boiling point of a mixture is the weighted average of the stuff present. At first you have pure methanol coming off. as the temperature rose, increasing amounts of water contaminated the alcohol. You need a fractionating column to obtain pure methanol. Joe Street wrote: 3A sieves will work but are normally used for getting tiny amounts of water out of solvents to bring them into the low ppm range. They will work of course but you might saturate them and have to do a second stage. There is a significant energy input into regenerating the seives as well. You have to bake them at well over 100 degrees C more like 200, but you can get by with lower temps if you bake them out with vacuum. Try putting a thermometer in your condenser and monitor vapour temperature to get a better endpoint and you will have an easier time. You have answered some of my own questions. I have recovered some methanol but not tried to use it yet. Sounds like if straight distillation is carefully done the methanol is dry enough to use without further drying. Great news and thanks for the post! :) I have some excellent references on solvent drying I can mail you if you want. No soft copy sorry but I might be able to scan them. Joe Thomas Kelly wrote: Good day to all, After splitting the glycerine coproduct from roughly 1200L of processed WVO, I distilled approximately 100L of the glycerine/methanol component. The first drops of methanol began to fall from the condenser at 145F. As the temp rose to 150F there was a steady flow of clear liquid from the condenser. Throughout the day I turned the heat off when the flow was steady and back on when it slowed. I filled a 4.5 gal (17.7L) cubie with clear liquid and started a second one. At this point the temp was over 160F. I let the still run up to 200F. At this point the second cubie had 4 gallons of clear liquid (and it was now 1AM) giving a total of 8.5 gal. I was thrilled with the result (and tired). I used the first 4.5 gal (17.7L) to run one batch, and while that was settling ran a second batch using the second 4 gal of recovered methanol. The first batch washed OK, but was a little slow to separate. It failed the methanol quality test. The second batch did not even pass the wash test. I have been making consistenly high quality BD for several months ... thank you JtF and list members. I don't think I made mistakes in measurement or titration. My question: As my distillation temps rose towards 200F (93C) could I have been including water in my distillate? (The methanol recovered at lower temps performed better than the methanol recovered at higher temps.) If so, can
Re: [Biofuel] Filtering - was Re: Vegtable oil sources...
Sock filters are relatively cheap and a head can be bought for them from http://www.mcmaster.com/ ,search for filter head ,allowing you to pump through the filter makeing it last much longer and go faster. I would think setteling would be good enough before processing, but once processed I would pump it through a sock filter bringing it down to at least 30 microns. The filters should be under 5 dollars each and do several hundred gallons of processed fuel per a filter. The head is under 20 dollars from them. Then use a clearwater pump for about 30 dollars and you will pump fast and have clean fuel for your vehicle. Oh remember polypropylene filters not polyester. They hold up much better with biodiesel. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Filtering - was Re: Vegtable oil sources... Keith, You wrote: So I'm also interested in what folks might have to say about filtering, and not filtering. I filtered my WVO when I was doing small - 1L, 5L, 15L batches - but found it to be too time and energy-consuming when I began to run larger (91L) batches. Before upscaling my process, I had already set up sources for WVO, and was getting far more WVO than I was processing. Cubies of WVO were filling up my shed. I got a few 55 gal drums to store the oil in and found that after settling in the cubies for a few weeks, the oil was very clear. I now rely on gravity/settling and do not filter my WVO. I allow the WVO to settle in cubies for a week. I then pour the top 80% of each cubie into a barrel and consolidate the bottoms of 5 cubies into 1. Most of this will be ready for the barrel the next week. I have 4 WVO barrels. One is settled and is used for processing, two are settling, and one is being filled. I pump WVO out of the settled barrel from the top 3/4. This oil is very clear and requires very little drying. Tom - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 6:00 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Filtering - was Re: Vegtable oil sources... Hi Jesse and all Mike Yup, I too want to know this, please? We are still fumbling toward our co-op. Naturally, I should just look at Keith's archives and SEE IT ALL!!! Jesse I'm not sure what all is in the archives, maybe not any definitive answers. There's nothing about filtering at JtF. I've been sort of sporadically working on a section covering filtering, as well as collection and so on, for SVO as well as biodiesel, and I'd like to finish it and get it uploaded. So I'm also interested in what folks might have to say about filtering, and not filtering. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO
Wouldn't the sugar be washed out of the biodiesel? It will disolve in water and most if not all of it would be removed. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Bob Carr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO It leaves a horrid toffee like deposit on your valves , pistons, rings and every other part that comes into contact with the fuel. When your piston rings are glued into their grooves, the sugar deposits will find their way into your engine oil where they act as an abrasive on all your bearing surfaces. I have actually witnessed 2lbs of sugar poured into a guys tank, his engine was irreparably damaged within 50 miles - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO What exactly would sugar do to an engine? The worst I can think of is clogging some filters or increasing carbon deposits. Zeke On 3/22/06, Bob Carr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nor sure about lard, but watch out for sugar in your feedstock. This is an old favourite additive for sabotaging an engine. Reg'ds Bob - Original Message - From: ROY Washbish To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO Hi All Don't donut shops use LARD that is SOLID at room temp? Isn't that lard full of sugar? Roy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: as i am just starting myself, i am thinking towards donut shops. they usually fry no meats in their veg oil and would have less fats. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] HELPFUL CREDIT INFO
ATTORNEY'S ADVICE -- NO CHARGE Read this and make a copy for your files in case you need to refer to it someday. Maybe we should all take some of his advice! A corporate attorney sent the following out to the employees in his company. 1. Do not sign the back of your credit cards. Instead, put PHOTO ID REQUIRED. 2. When you are writing checks to pay on your credit card accounts, DO NOT put the complete account number on the For line. Instead, just put the last four numbers. The credit card company knows the rest of the number, and anyone who might be handling your check as it passes through all the check processing channels won't have access to it. 3. Put your work phone # on your checks instead of your home phone. If you have a PO Box use that instead of your home address. If you do not have a PO Box, use your work address. Never have your SS# printed on your checks. (DUH!) You can add it if it is necessary. But if you have it printed, anyone can get it. 4. Place the contents of your wallet on a photocopy machine. Do both sides of each license, credit card, etc. You will know what you had in your wallet and all of the account numbers and phone numbers to call and cancel. Keep the photocopy in a safe place. I also carry a photocopy of my passport when I travel either here or abroad. We've all heard horror stories about fraud that's committed on us in stealing a name, address, Social Security number, credit cards. Unfortunately, I, an attorney, have firsthand knowledge because my wallet was stolen last month. Within a week, the thieve(s) ordered an expensive monthly cell phone package, applied for a VISA credit card, had a credit line approved to buy a Gateway computer, received a PIN number from DMV to change my driving record information online, and more. But here's some critical information to limit the damage in case this happens to you or someone you know: 5. We have been told we should cancel our credit cards immediately. But the key is having the toll free numbers and your card numbers handy so you know whom to call. Keep those where you can find them. 6. File a police report immediately in the jurisdiction where your credit cards, etc., were stolen. This proves to credit providers you were diligent, and this is a first step toward an investigation (if there ever is one). But here's what is perhaps most important of all: (I never even thought to do this.) 7. Call the 3 national credit reporting organizations immediately to place a fraud alert on your name and also call the Social Security fraud line number. I had never heard of doing that until advised by a bank that called to tell me an application for credit was made over the Internet in my name. The alert means any company that checks your credit knows your information was stolen, and they have to contact you by phone to authorize new credit. By the time I was advised to do this, almost two weeks after the theft, all the damage had been done. There are records of all the credit checks initiated by the thieves' purchases, none of which I knew about before placing the alert. Since then, no additional damage has been done, and the thieves threw my wallet away this weekend (someone turned it in). It seems to have stopped them dead in their tracks. Now, here are the numbers you always need to contact about your wallet, etc., has been stolen: 1.) Equifax: 1-800-525-6285 2.) Experian (formerly TRW): 1-888-397-3742 3.) Trans Union: 1-800-680-7289 4.) Social Security Administration (fraud line): 1-800-269-0271 We pass along jokes on the Internet; we pass along just about everything. If you are willing to pass this information along, it could really help someone that you care about. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] HELPFUL CREDIT INFO
I personaly put ask for ID on my cards I've never run into a problem with it, but I also live in louisiana. Here I've been asked for my ID once ever when makeing a c/c purchase and the reason was it was 1200 dollars and the machine told the clerk to call. When he called they asked him to check my ID. As for the c/c number I can see troubles happening, The payment slip that you are souposed to return normally has the full number on it. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] HELPFUL CREDIT INFO Greetings, Unfortunately, this attorney did not do his homework. Many places including the USPS will not accept a credit card that is not signed. Worse, you will be paying late fees on your credit card payment if you don't put the full number on your check, many companies just chuck them aside until they have time to track down your account number and make your payment late. They can do this as the instruction they send tell you to put your full account number on the check. Ask your company before following this attorneys advice. The rest of his advice is good, only if you have a safe secure place to keep all your photo copies. If your credit card will let you put your picture on it, do so. If they allow pin numbers, use one. Bright Blessings, Kim At 09:47 AM 3/21/2006, you wrote: ATTORNEY'S ADVICE -- NO CHARGE Read this and make a copy for your files in case you need to refer to it someday. Maybe we should all take some of his advice! A corporate attorney sent the following out to the employees in his company. 1. Do not sign the back of your credit cards. Instead, put PHOTO ID REQUIRED. 2. When you are writing checks to pay on your credit card accounts, DO NOT put the complete account number on the For line. Instead, just put the last four numbers. The credit card company knows the rest of the number, and anyone who might be handling your check as it passes through all the check processing channels won't have access to it. 3. Put your work phone # on your checks instead of your home phone. If you have a PO Box use that instead of your home address. If you do not have a PO Box, use your work address. Never have your SS# printed on your checks. (DUH!) You can add it if it is necessary. But if you have it printed, anyone can get it. 4. Place the contents of your wallet on a photocopy machine. Do both sides of each license, credit card, etc. You will know what you had in your wallet and all of the account numbers and phone numbers to call and cancel. Keep the photocopy in a safe place. I also carry a photocopy of my passport when I travel either here or abroad. We've all heard horror stories about fraud that's committed on us in stealing a name, address, Social Security number, credit cards. Unfortunately, I, an attorney, have firsthand knowledge because my wallet was stolen last month. Within a week, the thieve(s) ordered an expensive monthly cell phone package, applied for a VISA credit card, had a credit line approved to buy a Gateway computer, received a PIN number from DMV to change my driving record information online, and more. But here's some critical information to limit the damage in case this happens to you or someone you know: 5. We have been told we should cancel our credit cards immediately. But the key is having the toll free numbers and your card numbers handy so you know whom to call. Keep those where you can find them. 6. File a police report immediately in the jurisdiction where your credit cards, etc., were stolen. This proves to credit providers you were diligent, and this is a first step toward an investigation (if there ever is one). But here's what is perhaps most important of all: (I never even thought to do this.) 7. Call the 3 national credit reporting organizations immediately to place a fraud alert on your name and also call the Social Security fraud line number. I had never heard of doing that until advised by a bank that called to tell me an application for credit was made over the Internet in my name. The alert means any company that checks your credit knows your information was stolen, and they have to contact you by phone to authorize new credit. By the time I was advised to do this, almost two weeks after the theft, all the damage had been done. There are records of all the credit checks initiated by the thieves' purchases, none of which I knew about before placing the alert. Since then, no additional damage has been done, and the thieves threw my wallet away this weekend (someone turned it in). It seems to have stopped them dead in their tracks. Now, here are the numbers you always need to contact about your wallet, etc., has been stolen: 1.) Equifax: 1-800-525-6285 2.) Experian
Re: [Biofuel] automating titration
The same could be done with a ph meter with external alarm. Put a relay inline to a solenoid valve when it hits the right ph the solenoid valve shuts off flow. Just use a measureing device like a burett. when you come back to it read the burett and see how many ml was used. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] automating titration Hey Jason; If you are bent on doing this, why not approach it from a different angle? Make a system that imitates what you do yourself, instead of trying to do it numerically just make a system that does what you do. It could all be done by way of gravity feed and counting drops by use of optical sensors. You add a few drops of indicator and then keep adding titration solution until the indicator goes off and stays for 10 seconds. That's 8.4 ph. Again a photosensor is used to detect the colour change condition. This will for sure work and eliminates much of the problem with trying to meter flows. Joe Jason Katie wrote: Mr. McGinness i thank you for the advice on the pumps/ flow controls, i hadnt considered ready-made equipment (i usually build my own rig) ill have to look into that, but my problem does not lie within the realm of mechanics. i need a mathematical equation that i can manipulate to find the volume of base needed to bring the acid to a pH of 8.4. the knowns will be: pH of the base (by reference measurement) pH of the Oil (by measurement) volume of the oil (by external input) the variable will be: volume of base needed to reach a pH of 8.4 i have the outline of what i need, i just dont know how to put it together and make it work and pH isnt some simple (A+B)/C= your number here equation, which is confusing me beyond anything ive ever tried before (im horrible at math). ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methoxide Questions
Mike, Thanks mike you answered my question on this and another question I had about titration. I'm not one for the facts of chemestry but I can understand that 2 different substances with the same ph will take different amounts of lye to raise the ph to the same level. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Mike McGinness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methoxide Questions Logan, The reaction forms water (H2O) and Sodium Methoxide (CH3ONa) from the methanol (CH3OH) and sodium hydroxide (NaOH). I think part of the answer to your second question is it will make more soaps (not good) if you adjust the pH first. Mike McGinness Logan Vilas wrote: I've searched the archives so please forgive me if I didn't find this question. What is the chemical reaction when making methoxide? Why do we not correct the ph of the oil then add methoxide, made with a standard grams per a liter? Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] automating titration
Jason I personally think that there will be a set amount of grams KOH per liter depending on the ph of your oil. It might vary slightly based on your Lye supply but you could test your lye and have a set multiplier to adjust. People on here have told me I'm wrong. I just can't see it not being that easy. As I perform titrations I keep a log of the ph before I titrate and the number of grams per a liter it took to reach ph 8.4. It will just take time and many batches of data to compare and see if I'm right. Bob Allen Can you verify if there would be a standard for example IF USED OIL PH=6.2 THEN ADD 2.3 GRAMS PER A LITER OF 100% KOH TO REACH PH 8.5 Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 7:13 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] automating titration Mr. McGinness i thank you for the advice on the pumps/ flow controls, i hadnt considered ready-made equipment (i usually build my own rig) ill have to look into that, but my problem does not lie within the realm of mechanics. i need a mathematical equation that i can manipulate to find the volume of base needed to bring the acid to a pH of 8.4. the knowns will be: pH of the base (by reference measurement) pH of the Oil (by measurement) volume of the oil (by external input) the variable will be: volume of base needed to reach a pH of 8.4 i have the outline of what i need, i just dont know how to put it together and make it work and pH isnt some simple (A+B)/C= your number here equation, which is confusing me beyond anything ive ever tried before (im horrible at math). ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Methoxide Questions
I've searched the archives so please forgive me if I didn't find this question. What is the chemical reaction when making methoxide? Why do we not correct the ph of the oil then add methoxide, made with a standard grams per a liter? Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 7:13 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] automating titration Mr. McGinness i thank you for the advice on the pumps/ flow controls, i hadnt considered ready-made equipment (i usually build my own rig) ill have to look into that, but my problem does not lie within the realm of mechanics. i need a mathematical equation that i can manipulate to find the volume of base needed to bring the acid to a pH of 8.4. the knowns will be: pH of the base (by reference measurement) pH of the Oil (by measurement) volume of the oil (by external input) the variable will be: volume of base needed to reach a pH of 8.4 i have the outline of what i need, i just dont know how to put it together and make it work and pH isnt some simple (A+B)/C= your number here equation, which is confusing me beyond anything ive ever tried before (im horrible at math). ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency
Hakan, The price depends on volume purchased and it doesn't make much sense. Distilled water costs 60 cents to 1.50 for a gallon depending on brand. 1/2 liter bottled water costs 1 dollar, but at the same store I can buy 1 gallon of the same brand for .80 cents. I just have to walk down the isle instead of grabing it at the checkout counter. Then you can buy filtered water for as cheap as 30 cents a gallon. At least that's the local grocery store here in Louisiana, USA So if you buy water by the 1/2 liter it is more expensive then gas, but gallon by gallon it's 1/3rd the price or cheaper. Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency David, I do not understand why it is silly to want to know the facts about the following, Jeromie Reeves wrote: Are you serious? N. America has cheap fuel? Please show me this cheap fuel as I pay WAY more for a gallon of gas then I do a gallon of bottled water. Jeromie Andrew Netherton wrote: I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America. Andrew Netherton I live in Europe and we pay WAY more for the fuel than bottled water. Hakan At 22:44 09/03/2006, you wrote: Hakan Falk wrote: That means that bottled water is more expensive than gasoline, as I understand, http://www.bairdpetro.com/gasoline_prices/index.htmhttp://www.bairdpetro.com/gasoline_prices/index.htm @ $1.453 per gallon. So, what was wrong with the original statement? Nothing as I understand it. This is just silly. People want to make a point that gasoline is cheap in the US so they come up with something that makes it sound cheaper than water. It's not enough that we're going to compare gasoline, an industrial fuel, to food quality water that's packaged for individual consumption. Now we're going to compare the industrial, bought in large dollar quantities, price of gasoline without any kind of road or sales tax to water packaged for individual consumption with any and all applicable taxes applied. If you really want to compare the price of gasoline to water, how about using the price of water from the water company? Oh, right, it's because they charge cents per cubic foot and all of a sudden our comparison looks silly. Gasoline IS cheap in the US. It's not highly taxed compared to the rest of the world, and it doesn't include any of the external costs which might double or triple the price. It doesn't include the costs of its use (global warming, pollution, health side-effects), the costs of it's production (pollution, economic and social policies), or its procurement (military intervention, social and economic policies). Rather than dredging up platitudes about it being cheaper than water which just IMHO make people look silly , could we please talk about its real costs? Thanks, --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A wealth of manuals
I downloaded it thins morning thanks. I'll also seed it on Torrentspy.com Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A wealth of manuals I have a mostly idle server with a 100 Mbit connection to the AOL/TW backbone. Obviously, using it all would be frowned upon, but I'm willing to put it up and see what happens. Has anybody already downloaded it? It sounds like it's not going to happen very fast. Please let me know asap if you have it. Thanks, --- David OK! Kirk ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) got a full copy of it and we got it onto my server today. If you have winzip, pkzip, or gzip and can uncompress a file, save a bit of bandwidth on the full ISO with: http://renegade.sparks.net/cd3wd.iso.gz (471 MB) If you just need the raw ISO file, click on: http://renegade.sparks.net/cd3wd.iso (694 MB) Note: The CD image contains a pile of self extracting .exe files. You have to run them before being able to view any files at all. I haven't done this, and I don't and can't vouch for any of the programs. If they're full of virii it's not my fault, and I'm not available for help in recovering your system:) Also, I'm limiting the server to 75 simultaneous connections until I see what bandwidth utilization is like. If there are lots of people who can't connect and the utilization isn't too high I can increase that. We'll see how it goes. Hope it helps people. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A wealth of manuals
I'm having the same problems downloading the link, but I'm downloading the entire web site. I'll see how that goes. So far it's about 30-50kb/s Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 7:13 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A wealth of manuals Evergreen Solutions wrote: If there is somebody who has succeeded in getting these, make a .torrent and host it somewhere and put up the link...better sharing for everyone. I have a mostly idle server with a 100 Mbit connection to the AOL/TW backbone. Obviously, using it all would be frowned upon, but I'm willing to put it up and see what happens. Has anybody already downloaded it? It sounds like it's not going to happen very fast. Please let me know asap if you have it. Thanks, --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A wealth of manuals
I found the slowdown. It's not a server and with paralleal computing it's slowed down. What is Sleekfreak? Sleekfreak is enjoying its new home in a 1.1 ghz athlon, with a gig of ram and scsi raid 1 storage. It is running the Woody release of Debian/GNU linux. It functions as secondary secure wireless access point, router, authoritative nameserver, web server, smtp/pop3 server, ftp server, cvs server, ssh server, and irc server for the Sleekfreak Pirate Broadcast. It also serves as a fully configured multimedia X-Window workstation, complete with graphics, audio, programming, web design, virtual reality programming, office, accounting, and network software, in addition to being part of a heterogenous parallel computing cluster... the ghetto ring http://sleekfreak.ath.cx:81/technology.html Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of doug Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:30 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A wealth of manuals Logan Vilas wrote: I'm having the same problems downloading the link, but I'm downloading the entire web site. I'll see how that goes. So far it's about 30-50kb/s Logan Vilas After several attempts at the cd.iso file, I just started going through the links and DL the pages that are of primary interest to me at this time... some ag, some fuels, food preservation, energy systems, etc. Just using the download link target (Right click in Mozilla) doesn't include graphics on each page, and several of the link targets would have opened to another index, listing more links. An FTP would be nice, or Torrent, But this seems to be working. I'd bet that the biofuels list members flocking to this site and viewing and downloading pages may be part of the reason that their server appears so slow. Sure, it could handle the load if it was a high speed connection, but I get the impression that it isn't, or it may be restricted. Loads of great info there though! doug swanson -- Contentment comes not from having more, but from wanting less. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein. All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves
Original Message - Kenji James Fuse Wrote I wasn't talking aboout the ASTM test, although one of these days I'm going to talk to politicians and bureaucrats about getting the 'distillate curve' off the Canadian specs. All I meant is that we write up a 'biodiesel safe' thingy, like those silly foodsafe courses waiters and grocery store clerks have to take (after wiping your bum, wash your hands). Why let ignorant and liability-conscious politicos do it in a year or so, when we could do it easily, better and beat them to it? KF Kenji, I'm willing to put in time and effort. The polititions will eventually form a board and write rules and regulations on produceing biofuels for personal and businesses. They will either say you can't do it personally or they'll make the requirements so strict that you won't be able to do it LEAGLY. To acredit ourselves and do it in a weak manner won't do any good in a few years. It would take detailed process documents, safety regulations, requirements, restrictions of materials to be used and various other things. Then the documents would have to be transulated into the major languages of the world. Without this type of work it would be pointless because the EPA, or various other orginizations would not reconize any authority you have created. There would not be a requirement to actually inspect and police the people doing it. They would be takeing legal responsability and negating their membership if they did not follow the rules and regulations. If we work and do it right we could form an associatoin that would be respected and reconized worldwide while makeing it possiable for people to produce biodiesel on a personal scale. Keith, How many members are there for the biofuel list? Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterpriese, Inc. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Filter bags adaptor heads
I just found the filter bag adaptor heads in McMaster-Carr. For bags 4 3/32 made from polypro 13.13 or for 7 bags 17.5 instead of 30-35 that Ive found them elsewhere. Logan Vilas Bio-fuel Enterprises, Inc. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethynol vs Biodiesel
Andrew wrote: Ethanol and Biodiesel are totally different substances and have completely different applications. Biodiesel works in engines with a compression ratio over 50, like most of diesel engines. Explossion in the engine occurs because a temperature/pressure ratio (the diesel cicle). Ethanol/Gas blends and ethanol alone are used in the lower compression ratio engines tipically 10. The explosion occurs because a spark plug initiates the cicle. There are not engines which can use either ethanol and Biodiesel. Ethanol may explode way before the right moment in the high compression diesel cicles and Biodiesel do not have the flash point enough for a low compression engine. There might be diesel engines with compression ratio that high, but they usually don't go over 25:1. Pure ethanol can run in engines as high as 13:1 compression ratio. And there are some very unique engines that can run both. The US Army duce and a half can run on almost anything you put into it and it will run a very long time with no problem. They normally run diesel, but I've been told that they will run on any flammable liquid. There is a set of controls that can be adjusted based on what type of fuel you put in. Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cooking oil isn't just for diesels anymore.
Is Cooking oil nonconductive? If so it would work. I've seen pictures of computers immersed in other nonconductive liquids. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Petrillo Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:25 PM To: Biofuel list Subject: [Biofuel] Cooking oil isn't just for diesels anymore. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. I'm still not sure I believe it, frankly. But if it's a web stunt, then at least it's a _good_ web stunt! http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/01/09/strip_out_the_fans/ AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
- Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. Those sound about right. An atmosphere is ~30 mercury and ~30 feet of water. Just in case anyone is useing it for measurements. One atsmophere of water is 33 feet. Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
Well said, but a higher vacuum can be pulled when below sea level and it will read lower when above sea level. So it would be best to know your baramic pressure before determining what your vacuum needs to be. Forpeople above sea levelthey don't have to get as high ofa vacuume because they are already at a lower pressure. If you're up on a mountainit will be even easier. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Arttu Aula To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. You're talking about 2 different things.Talking about so-and-so-much vacuum is sort of misleading. Your 30"Hg of vacuum means 0"Hg (0 mmHg, 0 mbar, 0 psi) absolute pressure; the vapor pressure points were absolute pressure. Absolute pressure is measured according to how high of a column of mercury it can push upwards with a complete vacuum at the top, gauged pressure with atmospheric at the top. 29.92"Hg (760 mmHg, 1013.25 mbar, 14.7 psi) is standard atmospheric pressure at sea level, so that's the maximum height you can pull up mercury with a vacuum if the other end is exposed to air pressure at standard conditions, which means the vacuum reading will vary slightly according to the weather, even if the actual measured pressure stays constant. Absolute pressure is atmospheric pressure minus vacuum. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
To remove water at 55C your pump has to remove 11(at sea level)times the atsmopheric volume of your container before you get to a low enough vacuum to boil off water. If your atsmophericpressure is 0.13 PSI lowerat your level.Then yourmultiplier is only 10 times, and if it's .29 PSI lower it is 9 times. At sea level 1 cubic foot of free air in your vessel will result in 11cfm that your pump has to move and if just a small amount of uncondensed water goes through your pump that can add up very quickely. Then If your pump is not 100% efficent that adds another multiplier. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. Atmospheric pressure varies by a fraction of an inch (except for at the eye of a hurricane and then dewatering your oil is less important!)logan vilas wrote: Well said, but a higher vacuum can be pulled when below sea level and it will read lower when above sea level. So it would be best to know your baramic pressure before determining what your vacuum needs to be. Forpeople above sea levelthey don't have to get as high ofa vacuume because they are already at a lower pressure. If you're up on a mountainit will be even easier. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Arttu Aula To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. You're talking about 2 different things.Talking about so-and-so-much vacuum is sort of misleading. Your 30"Hg of vacuum means 0"Hg (0 mmHg, 0 mbar, 0 psi) absolute pressure; the vapor pressure points were absolute pressure. Absolute pressure is measured according to how high of a column of mercury it can push upwards with a complete vacuum at the top, gauged pressure with atmospheric at the top. 29.92"Hg (760 mmHg, 1013.25 mbar, 14.7 psi) is standard atmospheric pressure at sea level, so that's the maximum height you can pull up mercury with a vacuum if the other end is exposed to air pressure at standard conditions, which means the vacuum reading will vary slightly according to the weather, even if the actual measured pressure stays constant. Absolute pressure is atmospheric pressure minus vacuum. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
David Sorry if that number's wrong it's what I've been told from the only person I know who does AC work. But that number makes it sound a lot better. You will not have 1 cubic foot of water in your oil after you settle and drain it. If you do then you need to get a better method. There is likely less then 1 cubic inch after setteling and draining. That would only take 6 miniutes to remove. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. logan vilas wrote: Water boils off at 43F at 20-50mmhg of vacuum at sea level. At 140F it takes about 150-200mmhg. When fluids are mixed togther the Pressure of Vaporization changes especially when thouroughly mixed. You do not need a condensor if you are useing a AC type vacuum pump(that's what they are designed for). I know iowa's BECON program flash heats their oil to 230F then runs it through a vacuum chamber to achieve dewatering. Unless you have a very large vacuum pump or very little water in your oil it will take a long time. Water multiplies in volume by 10-18 thousand times when boiled. Say WHAT? I'm not sure what number you mean by 10-18 thousand. The number I remember is about 1700 times. 1 Cubic foot = 1728 cubic inches 1 Cubic Inch of water when boiled off = 5.79 cubic feet minimum 1 gallon = 231 cubic inches Vacuum Distilation alone would take a huge amount of time. I would still heat then let it settle and remove the water off the bottom. Then use vacuum distilation. Remember if you buy a 5CFM vacuum pump that is displacement of the piston at no load and full rpm. When you start pulling a vacuum that number falls off quickely and at 30 that is probably less then 1CFM. You have to multiply the CFM by the pressure. 1/30 atmosphere * 5 CFM = 1/6 CFM. It you're trying to pump off a cubic foot of water it would take something like 1700 * 6 minutes. That's a long time to wait:) --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
Water boils off at 43F at 20-50mmhg of vacuum at sea level.At 140F it takes about 150-200mmhg.When fluids are mixed togther the Pressure of Vaporization changes especially when thouroughly mixed. You do not need a condensor if you are useing a AC type vacuum pump(that's what they are designed for). I know iowa's BECON program flash heats their oil to 230F then runs it through a vacuum chamber to achieve dewatering. Unless you have a very large vacuum pump or very littlewater in youroil it will take a long time. Water multiplies in volume by 10-18 thousand times when boiled. 1 Cubic foot = 1728 cubic inches 1 Cubic Inch of water when boiled off = 5.79 cubic feet minimum 1 gallon = 231 cubic inches Vacuum Distilation alone would take a huge amount of time. I would still heat then let it settle and remove the water off the bottom. Then use vacuum distilation. Remember if you buy a 5CFM vacuum pump that is displacement of the piston at no load and full rpm. When you start pulling a vacuum that numberfalls off quickely and at 30" that is probably less then 1CFM. A Racor Fuel filter/dewaterar MIGHT work also. They are built for Diesel engines, but the ones you can afford havelow flow rates. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 3:35 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. Can vacuum be used alone to dewater oil at room temp?Or even at slightly elevated temp? 55 deg. C would be a good temp so when it finished drying it could be sent directly to the processor. I would alsoneed a condenser to keep the evacuated water out of the vacuum pump.A friend of mine (in ACR) uses vacuum @30" water column to take the watercontent to 300 micron. What micron is acceptable other than the obvious 0micron?I am just looking at options vs costs. I seen a post the other day and itmade me sit back and think.As always appreciate your input.John Frey ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] It was bound to happen - is this the beginning of the endfor BD?
I am not sure about California, but in Louisiana the DEQ considers Waste Vegetable Oil a solid waste. Their definition of solid waste is trash and other discarded materials that is not hazardous. The key word is discarded. If I am purchasing the oil then it is not discarded it is sold. It is an asset to the restaurant and becomes yours at purchase. I purchase it for .005 dollars a gallon and meter all the oil I get. I know Louisiana is much more relaxed then California but there may be some merit. I also refer to it as USED Vegetable Oil (UVO). If you call it waste then it is waste. But used Items are not waste. If Used grease was a waste then you would need a permit to purchase Yellow Grease which is Filtered UVO. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:42 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] It was bound to happen - is this the beginning of the endfor BD? Gov Arnold signed into law in Sept 05 a waste collection law AB1065, that had no minimum use exemption and classified all restaurant waste as waste grease. There are several of us in California that have developed a letter that we have sent to our legislators and the author asking for an amendment. This law was sponsored by the refiners as a response to broken contracts. Another thing that they have been doing is making new contracts that have a all or nothing clause. They will not take the trap waste without the fryer oil. This new law requires anyone who collects waste grease in any amount to have a liscense and 1million dollar bond insurance. This is wrong and we are trying to fight it. If any of you on this list live in CA please contact me so I can get you the copy of the letter. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Better titration Question
In the better Titration Method I find it's easier to mix my stock solution with 20grams in 500milliters distilled water. That gives .4% w/v lye solution when 5ml is added to 45ml distilled water. By doing this I do not have to divide the titration results. I haven't had any problems yet, but I was wondering if anyone would know of a reason I shouldn't do it? Or if there is anyone using this method? Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Better titration Question
Ken When using the better titration method I'm using 4ml oil and 40ml Isopropyl. As per the method on JTF you do that then divide by 4. I am just multiplying the lye solution by 4 before doing the titration to remove the step of dividing in the end. I should have said the proportions of my titration ahead of time. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Provost Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:10 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Better titration Question On Jan 2, 2006, at 3:33 PM, Logan Vilas wrote: In the better Titration Method I find it's easier to mix my stock solution with 20grams in 500milliters distilled water. OK -- we now have 4% NaOH soln. That gives .4% w/v lye solution when 5ml is added to 45ml distilled water. Yes, if you add 5ml of your 4% soln. to 45ml of water, you get a 0.4% solution. This is still 4 times the concentration that everyone else uses. By doing this I do not have to divide the titration results. I don't understand what you mean by this. When using a 0.1% soln., the number of milliliters of soln. needed to neutralize 1ml of oil is equal to the number of grams NaOH which must be added to the usual 3.5g per liter of oil. With your 4X solution, you will achieve neutrality at only 1/4 as many milliliters of solution, and thus will need to multiply by four to calculate the proper excess of NaOH. I haven't had any problems yet, but I was wondering if anyone would know of a reason I shouldn't do it? As long as you make the proper multiplication by four, your solution will work fine. Or if there is anyone using this method? I can't see why anyone would. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Household electricity consumption questions, remarks, and theorizing.
I do not know about battary's for your house, but if useing automotive battarys I would recomend BAT-CAPS http://www.batcap.net/Model800.html. It is a battary with the discharge capability of a capaciter so there will be no unexpected brownouts because your battary can't keep up. They can be completely drained and recharged many times without a problem. Most auto battarys can not do that. They are also half the size of the equilivant battary. They can be mounted in any posistion or angle you want. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Michael Nehring [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 12:28 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Household electricity consumption questions, remarks,and theorizing. Hi all, In about 8 months or so, I and my (future) wife will buy our first house. One of my goals is to have a relatively high level of energy self-sufficiency (without going bankrupt since we currently don't have a ton of cash lying around). First question: does anyone know of any charts/statistics of household energy consumption. I'm not so much interested in kilowatthours per day, but rather how the usage is divided up. This will make it easier to plan what areas typically need to be improved. On another note, have any of you guys already looked at this: http://mtbest.net/chest_fridge.html. It's a fridge that uses only .1 kw-hours/day (that's around 37 per year, and at $.1/kWh, that's less than $4 year if you're on the grid). The idea is surprisingly simple. Another question: does anyone know how many kilowatt hours are stored in a normal car battery (a battery for a standard sedan, I suppose)? I've been thinking about hooking an inverter up to a car battery (or probably an array) to power various devices in the house. However, I don't know how much power is actually in a fully charged battery. Here would be one idea to charge the batteries: I just install a few extra alternators in my car, and have those charge the batteries which would be stored in the trunk. Assuming the car is running biodiesel, then the electricity would be produced by biodiesel. Does the idea sound reasonable? Or does it have too many drawbacks and pitfalls? Are there other 12V batties that are better designed for household-type uses? (12V so that I can charge it with an alternator, since I have a few alternators lying around, and can get them for near to free if I go for used). How long does it take to charge an empty car battery? If it doesn't take long, maybe I could build a simple treadmill-like device for the car, so the car spins a wheel, which in turn spins a dozen or so alternators to charge a dozen batteries at once. While it isn't the most efficient method, it would be cheap, since the motor would stay in the car, and the car would serve other purposes (that is, getting places). I guess that's it for now. If any of you guys have any tips for common sources of waste in a house, I'd be happy to hear them (I'm already planning a rainwater harvesting system and a greenhouse for winter food production). Thanks, -Michael ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] bd in furnace and engines
I use one for casting alumium and have burned a20-30 gallonsof Bio-diesel through it. Ifit isn't really clean then the flame eye gets sooted overin less then 5 min and you have to shut down and clean it, but if the fuel is good it will run a long time.Also I've been selling BD to a Diving company who uses it in their hot water heaters. They haveused about200-300 gallonsin one of their machines and no problems. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Andrew Leven To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:46 PM Subject: [Biofuel] bd in furnace and engines Hi All, What is the word on using straight bd in a Beckett oil burner? This is a new unit only having burned a few gallons of petro diesel to test it so it is basically a "virgin'. BTW this is a backup unit on my Tarm wood fired boiler. Also has anyone had any issues with the solvent action in a petro diesel engine cleaningthe gunk off the inside of the motor and having it plug up vital item ie: injectors etc.? Once the bd gets past your fuel filter itany degunked stuff is free to pass through the motor unfilterd Thanks in advance Andrew Leven ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Drying KOH
Why Butyl? I was thinking Buna-N but butyl is not a problem. It's out of 1/8 steel. A small CO2 scrubber is easy to make and I have plenty of sodasorb/sofnolime available. It won't take much because I am not opening it often and it is a very small volume. I can even put in some desicant to know if the moisture level is low enough before opening the bag. I'll just hope for the best from the CO2 scrubber I don't feel like buying a CO2 meter, but I could potentially use a Argon or dry nitrogen purge also. Any thoughts? Logan Vilas The cabinet should be metal and aim for a temperature of -60 Deg. C with the peltier stack to get the ppm levels of water down. Oh also make sure the seals are of Butyl rubber not neoprene or buna and the gloves too. If this seems like a lot of work then consider getting a vacuum pump. Put the KOH in a bell jar and pump out all the air. Gentle warming while pumping may even remove adsorbed water and the vacuum will keep out the nasty CO2's as well. Cheers. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Drying KOH
If KOH is exposed to water can it be dryed? If so do ya'll think dehumidifaction would dry it? I am building a cabinet sort of like a sand blast cabinent for measuring KOH. I am going to build a small dehumidifyer from peltier junctoins. It opens on the right side to put in a bag of KOH. Then I'll let the dehumidifier run until it has very little or no liquid removal before opening the bag. I will have a box on the left side of the unit. The box's top will open, but close when you let it go. That box will have a door on the outside of the case. There will be a tray along the back and left side of it. Sandblasting gloves in the front and a plexiglas window. My scales will be on the tray. Just measure out the amount needed put it in a plastic bag. Then drop the bag in the box. Pull your hands out and remove the bag from the little door on the left. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] acceptable loss
I call it a micro seperation tank. I am useing a piece of 8 pipe 8' long. I have a ball valve on one the bottom and a sight glass connected to a hose. I take that boundry layer and just pour it straight into that pipe. When the pipe gets close to full I drain off the bottom. I use the sightglass to watch for the boundry layer in this micro tank and put it in a 5 gallon bucket to go back into the pipe after I am done seperating the majority of it. You want something tall and skiny to minimize that boundry layer and make thicker layers of the material which is easier to be seperated.. My processor is 4' square which has a large bottom surface area 2300 Square inches and that layer is about 1 thinck, but when put into the 8 pipe with 50 square inch bottom surface area then it fills 3-5 feet of the pipe making each layer 18 thick or more Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc. - Original Message - From: David Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] acceptable loss Hey Ed, something we've added in our co-op to recover that lost fuel is what we've dubbed a boundary separator. It is a small 5 gallon conical steel tank we rescued from a metal scrap yard. When draining the wash water, we take that boundary layer, meaning the layer where it's not quite pure wash water or fuel and we put it first in a 5 gallon bucket. Once it's full from all 3-4 washes, we empty it into our boundary separator and let it settle. Then drain off water, and take the recovered fuel, set it in a 5 gallon carboy and add it to the next new wash. Hope this helps. Ed Normandy writes: ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine/FFA
SODIUM CHLORIDE IS VERY TOXIC STAY AWAY. IT WILL TURN INTO A YELLOW CLOUD. IF YOU SMELL IT IT'S TOO LATE FOR YOU. ABOUT 3 SECONDS LATER YOU'LL STOP SMELLING IT AND SHOTLY AFTER YOU'LL DROP DEAD. THAT'S WHY YOU SHOULD NEVER MIX CHEMICALS TRYING TO GET A CLOGED SINK OPEN. I ONCE SAW SOMEONE DUMP RED DEVIL(LYE) THEN POUR CHLOROX ON TOP OF IT. i BARELY DRAGED HER OUT BEFORE THE CLOUD HIT HER IN THE FACE. Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc. - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: biofuel Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 4:19 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine/FFA Hello All, I'm having difficulty getting Phosphoric Acid. Can I use Hydrochloric Acid to separate the Glycerine/FFA ? It will produce Sodium Chloride rather than Sodium Phosphate (I use lye), but other than that, any objections? Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine/FFA
My mistake, I said sodium chloride without thinking, but I know mixing lye with things that contain chlorine can and will for chlorine gas, I don't know exactly what because I've never tried experimenting with it. Sorry for the confusion. Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc. - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine/FFA Sodium chloride is table salt. Chlorine is the yellow gas you're talking about I think. You can get it from sodium chloride by electrolyzing saltwater, or mixing sodium hypochlorite with lye aparrently, but it's not all that dangerous by itself. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone find a source for used centrifuges?
http://www.rousselet-robatel.com/products/lls.php I was quoted about 2 weeks ago. under 16,000 for a rebuilt BXP 130P. The same unit new is just under 28,000. That should do about 3 gallons per min. but they have some sizes that are not much larger. I don't know about useing it to remove large particles, but water seperation would be no problem. You can also get interchangeable Weirs. They take about 15 min to replace. With those you can use the centrifuge for preseperating and to skip the washing phase. You would still need the setteling phase. The centrifuge does not remove 100%, it works at about 90% seperation, To get better results you need 2 or 3 running in line. My Ideal setup is a centrifuge from my WVO storage into a day tank then to the processr(capable of 200 gallons of Bio-diesel per hour). Then into a 2500 gallon seperating tank. Then a battary of 3 centrifuges seperating Glycerine/cataylist and Bio-Diesel/Methanol. (This must be done first as there is a lot of methanol traped in the glycerine. If you take the methanol off the top first then as you seperate the glycerine you will free more methanol and have to repeat that stage). Then into another battery of 3 seperating Bio-Diesel and Methanol. That should leave no more then .01-.02% Glycerine/Cataylist/Methanol in my finished product. This will take a lot of time and 50-100k gallons sold to make a reality, but that will definately meet ASTM unless there is a mojor problem with your WVO to begin with. Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc. - Original Message - From: Matt Yarrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 8:21 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Anyone find a source for used centrifuges? Dear All- I'm helping to set up a small scale (about 5-8 thousand gallons per year) processing unit at Rice University. This is a completely student run project, and we've got most of the kinks worked out. One problem we have is that one of the colleges on campus somehow manages to produce WVO that has a large quantity of water and fries, batter, etc in it. So we don't have to waste energy to de-water by heating, or spend a few weeks settling (we are somewhat limited on space) the gunk out, I'd like to use a small scale centrifuge to remove water and junk from the oil. Problem is, the only ones I can seem to find are either for use in cars or are much more than we need. Does anyone out there have a source for a centrifuge that can process about 5-10 gpm? Cheers! - Matt Yarrison ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Why aren't there more manufacturers?
Mike, I'll do my best to write up some plans and explain the harder points. The best thing I can tell you is to start looking up homemade turbine. Or Turbocharger engine. I am more of a tinker then a planer. I bought a turbo from a local junkyard $25 bucks. I was told it worked, but the car wastotaled. Then from several sources I hadalready found on the internet I started tinkering. After a few months of playing around with it, and a lot of time watching tv, I had a running engine. Now I could use it to power something, but what am I going to do with5 lbs of thrust that sucks 10lbs of propane in 5 min. Now that I've gotten into bio-diesel I was trying to figure out what I can do with my byproduct. If I plan on selling a lot of this I have to find someone to take the glycerine or a way to dispose of it. Well I started thinking about it and for any number of reasons it would be nice to have a high volume burner then I decided to try glycerine. I had already run diesel, kerosine, propane, and a near miss with gasoline. Once it is up to heat on propane then put in the glycerine and it works great. it will also take twice the glycerine to make as much power as any of the other fuels so you can burn off a lot if you need to. After thinking about it there's a lot of heat lost, and I have been dreading the electric bill of heating my batches, but here's a good source of excess heat, just beine blown into the atsmophere. now I reclaim that and did the math. I get a huge amount of heating power without any electricity at all. Now I think if I add a exhaust turbine in line then gear reduce it to turn my genhead I will still reclaim some more of that energy and be able to power my processor pumps, and I decided to look at electric bills and net metering. Well it technically is a biomass generator, and in louisiana a person can produce 25kwh, or commercial can produce 100kwh and send it back out the public lines. So now all I have to do is get approved and have a electriction wire it into place. Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc. - Original Message - From: Michael Luich To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Why aren't there more manufacturers? Care to share the plans?Mike Luich On 10/13/05, logan vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have built a turbine engine/burner for my waste glycerine. I know it canbe dumped, but mysetup preheats and can produce electricity at the same timeof destroying my waste. The burner is just about the same for any useage from a half gallon an hour to 10 gallons a hour. It can burn a lot. I haveit set up for 1 gallon a hour right now. It is slightely loud(like a reallysmall jet engine), so no running it at night if your nebighors are going to complain. I figure 1 gallon of glycerine has 53,000 btu's. That's enoughenergy to produce about 20 HP. You loose about 25% in most cases to heat. SoIf my numbers are correct that's 5hp. That will turn a 2.5-3kw GeneratorHead. My average electric consumption for the last 6 months is 2.2 Kw perhour. Right now the burner just exhausts onto a 50 gallon water vat that Iam going to plumb into my processor for heating(just waiting on the money for heat exchanger). I figure after the energy produced the left over energyin the heat is about 37,500 btu's. Then I should get about 3,750 btu's ofheating per hour on my water vat.The only reason I have not set up the genhead is because durning the normal day there are spikes above 3kw for some time, then at night it slows down. Iam trying to get NET METERING. That means any electricity I don't use goesout to the general public and I get paid for it, but when my demand is more then my output I draw what else I need from the utilitys. By the end of themonth they end up oweing you for the excess you produced. and you made itinstead of going to the dump with your glycerine. Plus that makes the size of your glycerine storage much smaller.To produce enough glycerine to burn 24 gallons a day you will need to make a75 gallon batch per day. I size my batch by wvo put into the processor. Thatmeans you are preheating 562.5 pounds of WVO. that's a 6.67 degree rise perhour. and you should have about 22 hours of heating time at a min per day. Ifigure no more then one hour to pump 75 gallons into the processor then 1hour to refill the preheat tank. before heat loss that gives you a 146.74degree heat rise from ambiant. I figure in a decently insulated containershould have no more then 50% heat loss(this could be easily wrong). Thatwould give you a Min of 73.37 degree rise above ambiant. It seldom gets below 40F In south Louisiana.This could be turned up to 1000 gallons per day and 10 gallons a hour ofconsumption
Re: [Biofuel] Why aren't there more manufacturers?
Hey Jason It is actually a 2' square box that has a 6 tube with baffles in it. The exhaust goes into the bottom left, then hits a flat wall where the exhaust is directed up through some small plates tacked to either side to help catch heat and slow down the air speed. The pipe runs right through the middle of the tank There's about 1 8 hole so the water doesn't build pressure. In the diving industry they build hot water heaters on almost the same basis except they use a becket fuel oil burner for the heat source, and most of the time they are much bigger. I am not useing a water heater because I am setting up a facility and hopeing to sell at least 1500-2000 gallons of biodiesel a month. More is alway's better. For that I would have to do a batch a day for now I am planning on 4-5 batches a day on the weekends they are 200 gallons so it should only take 2-3 days work a week to keep up with my hopeful min of 1000 gallons. But I am going to enclose my Preheat tank in my facility that way it does help heat durning the winter, but during the summer in Louisiana that's gonna add extra heat also. My burner is in a box made out of 1/4 steel plate, that sits 3' square and 4' tall with a open top for saftey. If it decides to blow apart that should hold it in. I thought last night that If I make a inlet, throught the side of the box, and seal my intake to the side of the box, my exhaust is already run like this, then I can fill that box with water. That should give me aditional water heat, and help keep my turbo even cooler while adding a little more safety. If it decides to blow apart then it will have the water to slow it down and probably not burst into flames. At the most you'll head a thud and the turbine stop. I Think that's the safest way to make this. Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc. - Original Message - From: Jason and Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Why aren't there more manufacturers? Damn Logan, this is a tremendous idea! i had known about boneyard turbine engines for a while, but i hadnt ever put the idea of glyceine to it yet. this is fantastic. i have a recommendation though. why dont you use a gas water heater tank instead of a drum? it already has the baffles for heating built into it, and it already has the more difficult plumbing pre-assembled for you, if you so choose, you could also add to the factory insulation and use it for more than just heating your bio. heat the garage, or the shower, or if you're feeling ambitious, heat the whole bloody house (you'd probably need two turbines for that though.) the tinker gives a damn, jason ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] liquid liqid centrifuge
You're only turning 1400-3000 RPM. How many people do you know cutting on engines that are running 6,000 rpm or more. I know I've seen a lot of them go wrong, but they're normally not sending things flying in every direction. And belive it or not most of the time they work. Also the fact that liquid is spinning should help adjust any off balance and smooth out the rotation. http://www.rousselet-robatel.com/products/extraction3.php I am planing on useing one of their BXP 130p for my setup. I was quoted 15,500US. for rebuilt, 27,800us for new. I know that's a lot for the average person makeing it in their backyard, but I am setting up for production in south Louisiana. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Jason and Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:14 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] liquid liqid centrifuge http://www.cheresources.com/centcontactor.shtml I think it would be possible to build something along these lines cheaply, take that old blender and put it inline with your reactor? i wouldnt be inclined to try building/using it without a damn good machinist working for me... --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Why aren't there more manufacturers?
I have built a turbine engine/burner for my waste glycerine. I know it can be dumped, but mysetup preheats and can produce electricity at the same time of destroying my waste. The burner is just about the same for any useage from a half gallon an hour to 10 gallons a hour. It can burn a lot. I have it set up for 1 gallon a hour right now. It is slightely loud(like a really small jet engine), so no running it at night if your nebighors are going to complain. I figure 1 gallon of glycerine has 53,000 btu's. That's enough energy to produce about 20 HP. You loose about 25% in most cases to heat. So If my numbers are correct that's 5hp. That will turn a 2.5-3kw Generator Head. My average electric consumption for the last 6 months is 2.2 Kw per hour. Right now the burner just exhausts onto a 50 gallon water vat that I am going to plumb into my processor for heating(just waiting on the money for heat exchanger). I figure after the energy produced the left over energy in the heat is about 37,500 btu's. Then I should get about 3,750 btu's of heating per hour on my water vat. The only reason I have not set up the genhead is because durning the normal day there are spikes above 3kw for some time, then at night it slows down. I am trying to get NET METERING. That means any electricity I don't use goes out to the general public and I get paid for it, but when my demand is more then my output I draw what else I need from the utilitys. By the end of the month they end up oweing you for the excess you produced. and you made it instead of going to the dump with your glycerine. Plus that makes the size of your glycerine storage much smaller. To produce enough glycerine to burn 24 gallons a day you will need to make a 75 gallon batch per day. I size my batch by wvo put into the processor. That means you are preheating 562.5 pounds of WVO. that's a 6.67 degree rise per hour. and you should have about 22 hours of heating time at a min per day. I figure no more then one hour to pump 75 gallons into the processor then 1 hour to refill the preheat tank. before heat loss that gives you a 146.74 degree heat rise from ambiant. I figure in a decently insulated container should have no more then 50% heat loss(this could be easily wrong). That would give you a Min of 73.37 degree rise above ambiant. It seldom gets below 40F In south Louisiana. This could be turned up to 1000 gallons per day and 10 gallons a hour of consumption. It will produce the same temp rise because of the added batch size, but at 10gph glycerine it would produce 50hp and beable to turn a 20-25kw gen head. You could also get a larger genhead and burn 10 gallons per hour over 2.4 hours that will give the same overall energy consumption the same electricity production and heating without the continious running, but that genhead gets very expensive and it will be real loud running that high speed. Then you would have to start it wait 2 hours for your preheat then start processing. I perfer the idea of a running continious, Quiter, and less trouble of haveing to restart it and shut it down. Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Why aren't there more manufacturers? Bobby Clark wrote: I'm slowly starting to think of it, but I'm not convinced yet. I think most people who do it do it mostly as a way of not using petro-diesel much more than to save money. I doubt I'd save much on fuel for my TDI. I'd have to buy the pieces for the processor, buy the chemicals, and go through the process of getting WVO, and practice until I get it right. If I don't get it right I run the risk of damaging my engine; rebuilding it or the injection pump or replacing the injectors will cost more than I'll save making biodiesel in a long, long time, even if the WVO is free. I have three things I want to do with every free hour I have now, so making a processor and learning to use it has some serious competition. As far as reducing my personal impact on the planet regarding fossil fuels I'm more inclined to use the WVO I can get as a replacement for some of the home heating oil I use. I have an extremely well insulated house and use ~650 gallons of heating oil last year. I think next summer I'll cut at least 150 off with solar hot water heaters. If I can get 250 gallons of WVO and mix it with K1 I can save 400 of the 650 gallons without risking the engine in my TDI:) That's a significant savings, bring me down to 10-20% of what most houses use in these parts. I also wonder what people are really doing with the leftover glycerine and wash water with excess methanol. I suspect a lot of both get dumped, as do batches that just go bad. I don't know that, but would be interested to hear from those actually making BD what they do with their wash water. I
Re: [Biofuel] cost of B100 versus Petro in the Midwest USA
Bouchereau Oil CO Inc 1272 Lafourche Street Donaldsonville, LA 70346 http://www.chevrontexaco.com 225-473-7662 They are a bulk seller. They don't like selling it by the drum, but they will if you ask nicely. They perfer to sell it by tote tank or bulk truck. That number actually forwards you to Gobert oil company. They may be able to help you find cheaper in your area. Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc. - Original Message - From: John Short [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] cost of B100 versus Petro in the Midwest USA I would like to know the company that is selling for that price I just thought I had found a good deal @ $2.36 a gal. here in Dallas, Tx. And to get that price it has to be by the drum. - Original Message - From: Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] cost of B100 versus Petro in the Midwest USA I want some. Even at twice that price Brian Rodgers On 10/12/05, logan vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if it's just a really good source or what, but I was Quoted $1.10 per gallon for methanol. If I bring my own container. If I have to buy in 55 gallon drums then it is 1.57 per gallon. That was quoted 9/14/05 in Thibideaux, Louisiana. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] cost of B100 versus Petro in the Midwest USA You forgot to add the road tax and a markup for profit to the biodiesel... Anyone who is selling biodiesel has those costs too. On 10/9/05, Jason and Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I sat here and figured up the ballpark cost of parts for BD in a 390 gallon batch-( i started my numbers with a full 55 gal. drum of methanol) for 2 barrels of methanol (have to have excess) ~550$ for 390 gal. oil. .Haul-off for 40 lbs lye(VERY rough estimate)~140$ for one cannister of bottle gas (heat source)..~25$ Total C.O.P... .~715$ Results (Approximate) ~340 Gallons of ester ~47 Gallons reclaimed methanol ~43 gallons glycerine Market Value of 340 Gal. of diesel @ 2.60$/Gal...~884$ Your Savings. ...~169$ not to mention if you use the glycerine as a heat source through any of the available ways (digester gas, directly burning it, etc.) the heating costs will fall off entirely, and methanol will become cheaper the more you reclaim the excess, and we could always go to ethanol and add that to the equation, which has it's own COP. there are always options. Now, having read this, can you still tell me BD is more expensive than Petro? --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] cost of B100 versus Petro in the Midwest USA
I don't know if it's just a really good source or what, but I was Quoted $1.10 per gallon for methanol. If I bring my own container. If I have to buy in 55 gallon drums then it is 1.57 per gallon. That was quoted 9/14/05 in Thibideaux, Louisiana. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] cost of B100 versus Petro in the Midwest USA You forgot to add the road tax and a markup for profit to the biodiesel... Anyone who is selling biodiesel has those costs too. On 10/9/05, Jason and Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I sat here and figured up the ballpark cost of parts for BD in a 390 gallon batch-( i started my numbers with a full 55 gal. drum of methanol) for 2 barrels of methanol (have to have excess) ~550$ for 390 gal. oil. .Haul-off for 40 lbs lye(VERY rough estimate)~140$ for one cannister of bottle gas (heat source)..~25$ Total C.O.P... .~715$ Results (Approximate) ~340 Gallons of ester ~47 Gallons reclaimed methanol ~43 gallons glycerine Market Value of 340 Gal. of diesel @ 2.60$/Gal...~884$ Your Savings. ...~169$ not to mention if you use the glycerine as a heat source through any of the available ways (digester gas, directly burning it, etc.) the heating costs will fall off entirely, and methanol will become cheaper the more you reclaim the excess, and we could always go to ethanol and add that to the equation, which has it's own COP. there are always options. Now, having read this, can you still tell me BD is more expensive than Petro? --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
