Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Just don't use off road ( red) #1 or #2. less than 1% will result in a dark pink color for the entire batch. If #2 ULSD were used, you would gain a few btu's. - Original Message - From: JAMES PHELPSmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgmailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:17 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol) Kerosene works. It is neutral in the reaction and can be separated later by freezing the bio. (If you would want to??) From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgmailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgmailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 08:16:39 -0500 Hello Ken, Appreciate your input. (Just a quick summary in case anyone else is listening.) While denatured ethanol may be used on the premises where it was produced, it must be denatured for transport or use in vehicles off premises. It seems that BD would not render the spirits unfit for beverage use, so the question remains: Can ethanol be denatured and still be used to make ethyl esters? (I don't see methanol on the list below, but it is my understanding that methanol is the denaturant in denatured ethanol available in hardware stores.) Which of the following will have the least/no effect on the process of making ethyl esters? A list of the approved denaturants from the section, Authorized Materials, . for making ethanol unfit for beverage use from the (US) Code of Federal Regulations.) Sec. 19.1005 Authorized materials.(a) General. The Director shall determine and authorize for use materials for rendering spirits unfit for beverage use which will not impair the quality of the spirits for fuel use. Spirits treated under this section will be considered rendered unfit for beverage use and eligible for withdrawal as fuel alcohol.(b) List. The Director will compile and issue periodically a list of materials authorized for rendering spirits unfit for beverage use. The list will specify for each material (1) name and (2) quantity required to render spirits unfit for beverage use. The list may be obtained at no cost upon request from the ATF Distribution Center, 7943 Angus Court, Springfield, Virginia 22153. (c) Authorized material. Until issuance of the initial list of materials authorized for rendering spirits unfit for beverage use, proprietors are authorized to add to each 100 gallons of spirits any of the following materials in the quantities specified. (1) 2 gallons or more of--(i) Gasoline or automotive gasoline (for use in engines which require unleaded gasoline Environmental Protection Agency and manufacturers specifications may require that unleaded gasoline be used to render the spirits unfit for beverage use).(ii) Kerosene,(iii) Deodorized kerosene,(iv) Rubber hydrocarbon solvent,(v) Methyl isobutyl ketone,(vi) Mixed isomers of nitropropane,(vii) Heptane, or, (viii) Any combination of (i) through (vii); or(2) \1/8\ ounce of denatonium benzoate N.F. and 2 gallons of isopropyl alcohol.(Sec. 232, Pub. L. 96-223, 94 Stat. 278 (26 U.S.C. 5181))[T.D. ATF-198, 50 FR 8464, Mar. 1, 1985, as amended by T.D. ATF-249, 52 FR 5961, Feb. 27, 1987; T.D. ATF-442, 66 FR 12854, Mar. 1, 2001] Thanks, Tom - Original Message - From: Ken Provost To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgmailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol) On Nov 26, 2006, at 7:47 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: The idea on denaturing the ethanol is to make it unsuitable for drinking. Would ~ 2% BD make it unsuitable for drinking? If not, couldn't it be denatured with methanol? There are several levels of denaturing -- fully denatured needs to be foul-tasting, not just poisonous. Biodiesel wouldn't qualify as either :-) Ethanol denatured only with methanol is considered only partially denatured, and is still subject to restrictions and reporting. -K -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgmailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol as Windshield wash antifreeze
Hi Tom: A friend who mixes windshield wash commercially uses 35% in the winter. That is plenty strong for Montana, but if he uses that strength he does not have to worry if the temp goes below -10F by several degrees. Paul - Original Message - From: Thomas Kellymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuelmailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 6:33 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Methanol as Windshield wash antifreeze Help if you can. I have relatives that own a bus company. They have 150+ gallons of windshield wash fluid. It is not winterized. How much methanol should be added to each gallon of washer fluid in order to prevent freezing to say -10F (-23C) ? I will experiment as follows: Small sample of fluid in freezer check temp it freezes at Add measured amount of methanol . check temp it freezes at Repeat until I get a vol:vol ratio that produces the desired results. I have other things to do tomorrow if anyone has a better plan/knows the correct ratio it would be appreciated. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ooil Plants suited for Eastern Montana
Jim: Well, sugar works well for ethanol and if the celulosic (?sp) enzymes are ever developed, the residual pulp would work also. There has been talk of an ethanol plant in the past but I, however, vote for a rummery. That way, on a bad day, I could walk across the street and sample the merchandise. Methanol is already scarce. A report from the chemical supplier stated that two major world suppliers had declared Force Majure on their contracts as of a month or two ago. The price has gone up about $1.00 USD/gal here. A question for the JTF group: A farmer friend says that you cannot use rape as a rotation crop with sugar beets since the rape plant is a host organism for the Beet Root Nematode. Any thoughts? - Original Message - From: JAMES PHELPS To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ooil Plants suited for Eastern Montana Paul, Excellent question! I also see a good combination I wonder if beets would be a good Ethanol crop? nice combo if methanol became scarce. Jim - Original Message - From: PAUL MILLER To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ooil Plants suited for Eastern Montana How about the camolina that is being touted by the governor? Also, what is a good oil seed rotation crop for sugar beets? I understand that rape is not. Paul - Original Message - From: JAMES PHELPS To: biofuel Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:51 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Ooil Plants suited for Eastern Montana Can any one tell me what the best oil plants would be for an area that is home to dry land wheat and winter wheat? I am particularly interested in a seed type that is not Owned by large corporate agriculture and can be raised for seed as well as oil. Thanks Jim___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ooil Plants suited for Eastern Montana
How about the camolina that is being touted by the governor? Also, what is a good oil seed rotation crop for sugar beets? I understand that rape is not. Paul - Original Message - From: JAMES PHELPS To: biofuel Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:51 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Ooil Plants suited for Eastern Montana Can any one tell me what the best oil plants would be for an area that is home to dry land wheat and winter wheat? I am particularly interested in a seed type that is not Owned by large corporate agriculture and can be raised for seed as well as oil. Thanks Jim___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cummins bio-diesel question
Jim: I forgot the most important part, the drag car runs on pure 100% Bio-diesel. Paul - Original Message - From: JAMES PHELPS To: biofuel Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cummins bio-diesel question Couldn't tell you with WVO but The older models designed for the old stylefuel seem to love it. The University of Idaho used this engine in all theirtesting as well.On the subject of the newer ones, I hear they will do fine to as long as thefuel is filtered to specifications and viscosity is good. that means goodbiodiesel. Any one?- Original Message - From: "Jim" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Friday, October 27, 2006 3:26 AMSubject: [Biofuel] Cummins bio-diesel question How well do the Cummins engines used by Dodge work with bio-diesel WVO? Also, any word from Europe on how the smaller Dodge diesels used over there are running on it? Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforeverorg/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforeverorg/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] MONTANA - TURNING POINT FOR CHANGE?
- Original Message - From: JJJN To: BIO Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 7:48 PM Subject: [Biofuel] MONTANA - TURNING POINT FOR CHANGE? I may be wrong - As I understand it - Montana could be the location of the shootout between the advocates of change and the Bush agenda. If Jon Testor US Senatorial candidate from Montana wins this November it could spell the beginning of the end of the Wrong Wing Agenda, for at least the next two years. It seems that if elected there will be one over the top to start pulling the emergency brake on the War machine.--snip-- Conrad's TV add today shows a sinister looking Jon Testor stating: "I don't want toweaken the Patriot Act, I want to repeal it." Interesting times, these, the seven percent lead was for the entire state with the eastern portion showing a nearly "dead heat." Paul ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps.
Kirk: I live in Billings and the stickers are on the fuel pumps, however the sticker has a little more to say. The sticker adds that it is unlawful to use 500 ppm sulphur diesel in a 2007 or later engine. By the time the 2007's arrive, the fuel will probably all be 15 ppm sulphur. Paul - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 2:53 PM Subject: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps. A friend phoned from Montana and said all the diesel pumps there have a sticker that the fuel in that pump is not to be used in 2007 diesel trucks. Has anyone seen these stickers in their state? Kirk Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
