Re: [Biofuel] Basic Questions, Major Problems: Biofuel Batches
Helo Seth and Keith One master thesis done in our chemical engineering regarding KOH and NaoH . I was examiner of this work .Even though KOH is more costlier , not readily avilable compared to NaOH , we found it can work even at room temperture , more active as catlayst compared to NaOH , even lesser amount , in the work done with cater and other oil.Thus our results confirm too the the work of Keith. Yours truly Pannirselvam Natal, RN,Brazil 2011/9/24 Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Seth Thanks for posting, some sound advice there, but I have to make a couple of comments. No way is NaOH a better catalyst than KOH (not just my opinion). With that in mind, I somehow wasn't surprised to read further down that you've had hundreds of failed batches, in only two years. There just isn't any good reason to have failed batches. We made an average of one batch a week for seven years and didn't have a single failed batch. There's nothing special about us, if we can do it anyone can. And yet you're teaching workshops? All best Keith Hi Chris, I've had all the problems you are having and more. Titration is an essential part of the process though! You cannot skip this step, even with new oil. Accurate measurements? Is the murky water white? If it is, you are doing it right(as long as you have the biodiesel separated from it.) Remember that the biodiesel will be a murky yellowish color after the first wash It sounds as if you are being very methodical and careful with your process. For the record, I have found that I have had better results with Naoh than KOH Lye. It is possible that your chemical is inferior. Remember that Lye immediately absorbs moisture from it's environment and that would tend to mess with your results. Is the Lye stored in a sealed container? Are you sure the Lye is completely dissolved in the methanol? I have had fairly consistent results using a blender for test batches. Consistent temperature is important, but I have found that too much heat is even worse than not enough If the batch overheats, a percentage of the alcohol tends to evaporate and the result is jelly. Remember that Methanol evaporates at 67.4 celcius. I've been making bio-diesel now for 2 years with the majority of my batches working out awesome. Don't feel bad though, I've had hundreds that haven't. There have been times I have had to take apart my entire 200 litre processor and blow out every piece with an air compressor to clean out the congealed crap fro a jelly reaction. I have made soap, mayonnaise and all manner of things besides Bio-diesel. Bears have trashed my shop and gone after the glycerin and oil. I have contaminated batches of bio-diesel accidentally and broken down on the side of the highway at -30... The list goes on, but once you start, you can't give up! I have also driven almost 100,000 km on my own fuel, sold it and given it to farmers, taught workshops, powered music festivals and much more on my fuel. However much of a pain in the ass making bio-diesel can be, it's not a petroleum product!!! Seth-Dredneck' Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: C Pinelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 4:57:10 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Basic Questions, Major Problems: Biofuel Batches Again, I have not tritrated because it is virgin oil. Should I? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 00:06:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Basic Questions, Major Problems: Biofuel Batches what's the titration of your oil? even if it's new doesn't mean its clean, or even dry. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 10:55:31 -0400 Subject: [Biofuel] Basic Questions, Major Problems: Biofuel Batches Hi all, my name's Chris, I've been an avid ethanol brewer for a couple years and I'm shifting into biodiesel now with the help of the amazing Journey To Forever site. I've been trying for about 6 months in my spare time but have had almost no success with test batches. and I'm just about at my wit's end. I need some help. I thought if I laid out my proceedure and questions someone might be able to point out something that I'm doing wrong. I start by filling an old pot with water, and placing a 4L HDPE jug in it. I use that jug to mix the oil. I pour the vegetable oil (usually Canola) into the jug, and heat to 55'C. While that is heating, I measure out 200mL of 100% Methanol and 5.454g of 90% KOH. Mixing them together quickly in a glass jar to avoid air contamination. I add the methoxide to the oil and begin mixing. I use an electric drill on a homemade stand and a small steel paint mixer that attaches to the drill for mixing. Usually on low settings because it
[Biofuel] Cross post from bioenergy list :Ruralization of Urban Area using Biomass Car and bio char using wastes
Helo Keith and list members This is an very imporatant topic about small biomass car from wastes Posted in Bioenergy list . As this toic is also relevant as biogas need to compete with pyrogas or syngas , let us also have debate here too Yours truely Pannir selvam P.V Prof Pagandaia . V Pannir wrote Hi Jim You wrote :i'm fearing our entry is creating technical difficulties for the committee to relate to more typical entries. Most of the people who are doing project development are engineering or technical people . As I am an university engineering Research oriented Professor , UFRN, Natal , Brazil ,teaching project development subject to engineering students as as well as the subjects rrelated to the environmental impact of the technology , can understand well why they only bother about technical problems as well as difficulties, not the whole sustainable problems , which I wish to bring here your attention .Let us as have a look at the past what All big AUTO Industry had been in the case of biomass based bio ethanol fuel car project In Brazil. The Auto industry has rejected to make a car adopted to hydrated ethanol mainly due to technical problems as useless , The Brazilian government need to make this car , making possible technological change . This is an critical event bio fuel project for the survival Brazilian ethanol projects , as even the Auto industry yet ignore these bio fuel project for technical reasons , but the projects made Brazil more sustainable Bio Energy producer of the world today , even the rich country who has biomass resource such as Australia is not able to implement ethanol bio fuel project because of the the Auto industry technical difficulties concepts, making it impossible as you correctly identified the problems as they have limited vision and just the look only for the free energy , free money , not understand yet the problem of technological innovation and sustainable problem , and also they need to make some risk too . Thus several innovations were made possible , as approved by many of the list members here about technical problems , they do not even want to know and I am sure as you point out that they are on the way on the other end of things from the image of a sleek electric car where discussions of future transport usually start. Here is the place a lot of research and development money usually had been spent with little output or innovation , not for useful project one that of biomass car I like very much your final consideration note about that what they like is free energy scheme as if biomass very cheap , is waste ,so all can make free money from free biomass waste. Some one even giving comment there that what you are doing is pyrolysis and bio char , not gasification , then giving a note that you are making CO2 problems , as if there no such problems now. Latter they may ask you pay for the co2 credit too from you , as the one do not considered biomass resource are renewable , as the co2 is not same as the non renewable Jim , as you who has made several technical innovations , as you correctly pointed out the opportunity of the technological change , can see the opportunity is there much in the rural areas, as this one is for rural transport , where we all know here in this list , there can not be any free energy , or any free money for the Free prosperity made possible freely , but the whole system involves , the outcome from Bio char , the bio oil as well as the the wood Tar too even a small quantity of these products , during long time operation can make or break the biomass car project as well the risk involved Those who develop the car , like microsoft window mouse tied with the software has no idea that they are involved in the making of the hardware that need to be different than the car of hybrid , hydrogen and electrical. I agree with you that what they really need to understand is that the technology change can be made possible using the open source , such as the google approach, making the car using waste , showing that not as an free energy , very low operating cost alone , but has several real byproducts too . This new technological change is an urgent need not only for rural area but also urban as the ruralization of urban are can be made possible from waste from urban .Every where in the planet , particular in Europe and North , we all have destroyed the biomass resource in urban to the extent of more than 80 percent , where as this is only y less than 60 in Brazil . The biomass powered car from waste using bio char need to take into the these several new opportunities in all dimension so that all the byproducts from the this project make this project to be more economical, environmentally correct one , socially desirable .This can be well understood from live example , if one carefully look into the fact
[Biofuel] Cross post Fwd: [Gasification] MICROWAVE HEATING TO PRODUCE BIOFUELS
Helo, Keith and list memberbers As high temperature short time heterogenios catalyst with very cheap sodium carbonate can work , will this mico oven can make possibe home made biodiesel as this can simplify the fuel seperation which is more than 50 porcent of the whole cost and also the quality of the product as the process outlind below is claimed to be *Microwave heating has been shown to be advantageous by decreasing the energy requirements for a number of reactions in the production of biofuels, and decreasing the time involved in the process.The team will also study the use of a heterogeneous, or solid, catalyst, which can potentially save about 50% of the current costs see below more information * -- Forwarded message -- From: Benjamin Domingo Bof [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 12:52 PM Subject: [Gasification] MICROWAVE HEATING TO PRODUCE BIOFUELS To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification [EMAIL PROTECTED] LATEST NEWS Biofuels to get microwave treatment 24th July, 2008 Microwave heating decreases the energy requirements for a number of reactions in the production of biofuels in a shorter period of timeA team of researchers from the University of Massachusetts Amherst has received a $440,000 (€280,000) grant from the National Science Foundation for research that will speed up the production of biofuels using microwaves. The research will focus on converting natural products, such as vegetable oil, wood and grasses, to liquid fuels. The grant will support the Microwave Enhanced Catalytic Production of Biofuels project, which will study two key improvements in the process of making sustainable fuels. The first is microwave heating, which can potentially save approximately 80% of what it now costs to produce biofuels. 'Production of biofuels must be a highly efficient process to be economically competitive with fossil fuels,' William Conner, a professor of chemical engineering and the principal investigator on the grant, explains. 'Therefore, it is critical that conversion processes be developed that consume minimal amounts of energy. We expect some of the production processes we're studying to be at least twice as efficient as current methods.' Microwave heating has been shown to be advantageous by decreasing the energy requirements for a number of reactions in the production of biofuels, and decreasing the time involved in the process. The team will also study the use of a heterogeneous, or solid, catalyst, which can potentially save about 50% of the current costs. 'The idea is to make the process more efficient by using a heterogeneous catalyst, meaning you don't have to neutralise the fuel to make it less corrosive, as you would normally have to do if you used a homogeneous catalyst,' Conner adds. Conner is also involved in acquiring a biodiesel pilot plant for UMass Amherst that would produce 600,000 gallons of biodiesel fuel a year from used vegetable oil recycled from institutional kitchens. Since vegetable oil is one of the feedstocks the research team will be studying, the pilot plant would become an integral part of the research. The pilot plant would also help to establish UMass Amherst as a centre for studying renewable fuels ¡Buscá desde tu celular! Yahoo! oneSEARCH ahora está en Claro http://ar.mobile.yahoo.com/onesearch ___ Gasification mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org http://info.bioenergylists.org -- Pagandai V Pannirselvam http://pannirbr.googlepages.com Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CT Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence : Av Odilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 Capim Macio EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-3769 Ramal210 32171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular 84 88145083 www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com -- http.www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com http://partnerpage.google.com/biomassa.eq.ufrn.br Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e Processos DEQ – Departamento de Engenharia Química CT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RN Campus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970 http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage 3215-3769 ramal 210 casa 3217-1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080724/fe8724bf/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in Diesel Generators ; VO ou BD or Blend:Small System MODEL
can be economic problem as the price are expensive..The use of ethanol and BD extraction vegetable seed Principal the castor and cashew nut oil as well as the biol oil can be pratical method tommake biofuel .However in our system design approach we are limited to approach . Surely who uses the system need to do the home work experimenting the method. Thus practical work alone without undersatanding what one do , can be good for big biofuel as they wish to sell the products. Several public and private oil company have their patent related with BD as additives.I am sure som of our list members also knows , do Phd work .They will not make this open as they do not care for small systems and also small farmer. Our system analysis group wish one understand the system , the use it , not the block box ,practical ready made things. thus our approach compliments several hand made , self made biofuel project published in JTF by Keith. In recent work in our wiki http://www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/( www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com)we make system analysis of BD processes so that our students and also all the new one can understand well the systems . Once you understand,learned well , you need to reflect and practice it and can be very creative to make inovative small system . Yet our system are not real proven one , as our work is an part , and i wish the other can make other part too. With India making the cheapest car , you can see , there will the food and fuel conflict , we need systems work to get the both in decentralized village level energy production. I am going to present two International Paper on IAW Expert conference in , in Coimbatore , TN India about fuel, food and water problems , and about the use of small bio gas and integrated biosystems too in the 6 FEB , 2008. and wish to share indian experience also of the biofuel here. This will be the topic of my future post here to share more about biofuel and as you have told , in 2007 I contributed very less here and I am sure in 2008 , as we are getting very good results The 2008 will the new year of bio oil, pyrolysis gs , biogas based on CNSL and VO, surely biofuel blend will be the hot topic The new biofuel blend can be invented , to make underdeveloped farmers can make this globalized word much more good place ,as they can also feed well all the world and them too . Thanking for you the good question you have made and wish happy 2008 for biofuel list members .The number of post are reducing a bit , we all the old and new member need to make this list as the best which used to be ., which is and surley will be too . I wish too reply of Keith for all the post as he used to do always to make the list much dynamics with new useful data and sure he is doing the best for a long time , yet the new list young list members can make questions too , as the future of the global energy are in their hands to mak it more just and sustainable for all not for few. With kind regards Pannirselvam P.V North East (semi Arid) BRAZIL experimental verification? Thanks and regards. Chandan Chandan Haldar [EMAIL PROTECTED] para sustainablelor. mostrar detalhes 11 jan (4 dias atrás) Pannirselvam, Happy New Year to you from India. Good to see your mail after a long time, but I'm quite confused by it. I thought Keith only reported what YOU wrote earlier on 9/25/2006 (regarding mixing ~20% BD and 5-10% ethanol into (fresh/used) VO to reduce viscosity). Could you please specifically clarify if you or your associates have actually made this kind of mixture work or if you have seen this being done or if you are making a hypothesis that needs experimental verification? Thanks and regards. Chandan Pagandai Pannirselvam wrote: snip Based on what Keith has reported recently, castor oil 20 % can be used to 80 % ethanol hydrated ,I am sure again a significant amount of ethanol can be replaced using SVO with viscosity as the limit,thus there will not be no need for BD in rural areas to run generator. Milled Castor beans can be used extract ethanol from water , then pressed , mixed with the SVO , so taht the engine can run with out engine modification and also without the expensive BD . snip Yours truely Pagandai V pannirselvam 2008/1/7, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello Tom Hello All, On 9/25/06 Pagandai Pannirselvan wrote: The small co generation of electrical energy based on the bio diesel can make possible the use of pure used vegetable oil and also some e 5 porcent hydrated ethanol , making possible to lower the viscosity of used vegetable oil in deiesel engine, removing dependence with Conventional deisel. Thus the blend of used vegetable oil 70 percent, hyrated ethanol 10 percent and biodeisel 20 porcent can be used with less problem for motor
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in Diesel Generators
Helo Thomas We are experimenting to use cashew nut shell liquid and spent SVO as additives to alcohol for gasoline engien .if we want we can suply from Brasil to you With regards pannirselvam 2008/1/7, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Keith, Thanks. Not only will your reply be helpful in the matter of the diesel generator, but may help me in my quest to run a gasoline car, legally, on homebrewed ethanol. If the water in 95% ethanol will not cause problems when I denature the ethanol with gasoline (2 gallons per 100 gal of ethanol), I can, with a permit, legally produce ethanol and run cars on it. I will pass on the information you have provided, and attempt to digest it all myself. Best to You, Tom - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO in Diesel Generators Hello Tom Hello All, On 9/25/06 Pagandai Pannirselvan wrote: The small co generation of electrical energy based on the bio diesel can make possible the use of pure used vegetable oil and also some e 5 porcent hydrated ethanol , making possible to lower the viscosity of used vegetable oil in deiesel engine, removing dependence with Conventional deisel. Thus the blend of used vegetable oil 70 percent, hyrated ethanol 10 percent and biodeisel 20 porcent can be used with less problem for motor maintainence in rural areas. He says with less problem, I'm not sure if that means without problem but it might do. I've recently been contacted by a former student who would like to generate his own electricity for his woodworking business. He is considering a diesel generator and asked about biodiesel. I suggested he look into using a BD/WVO blend rather than processing it all into BD, as he would be using about 3 gallons (11.4 L) per hour (120+ gal/week). 1. Does anyone have experience using a blend such as that suggested by Pagandai Pannirselvan in a diesel generator? No experience, sorry, but some thoughts might help, FWIW. 2. Hydrated ethanol: What % water would be tolerated? In the U.S. it is possible to get a permit to distill ethanol. Only that which leaves the premises must be denatured to prevent human consumption. 85-90% ethanol is do-able, and used on premises would not have to be denatured The maximum purity you can get straight from the still is about 96%, 190-proof (95%) should be doable. This is from David Blume's excellent book Alcohol Can Be a Gas!: There is a myth that anything less than 200-proof alcohol will separate from gasoline due to the small amount of water in the alcohol. Gasoline, alcohol, and water are miscible (stay dissolved in one another), depending on temperature and on water and alcohol content. In fact the bottled additive to combat water in your tank, generically known as Dry Gas, is nothing more than 200-proof alcohol, which causes the water to blend with the gasoline. In Brazil, they pump alcohol that contains about 4% water. In warm climates there is absolutely no problem in mixing wet alcohol with gasoline, but all of Brazil is not warm and balmy. When I visited there, a General Motors engineer showed me a study that accurately outlined the physical limits of mixing water, alcohol, and gasoline. According to the paper, published by the Society of Automotive Engineers, at about 68 deg F [20 deg C], alcohol with as much as 45% water will mix with gasoline and not separate. At 4% water, alcohol will form a stable mix with gasoline down to about minus 22 deg F! [-30 deg C] This means that those of you who live in milder climates don't have to go through the extra step of producing dry 200-proof alcohol to get it to mix properly with gasoline. And if you do live in minus 22 deg F, you would generally only have to use 200-proof during the winter and only if you were going back and forth between alcohol and gasoline in a non-flexible-fuel vehicle. Flexible-fuel vehicles will simply adjust to phase-separated fuel. Pagandai was probably referring to 96% ethanol, 4% water, but I guess 95% would do just as well. David Blume also refers to farmers' tests in the US using blends of petro-diesel, biodiesel and dry ethanol in diesel engines. Most used 50% ethanol, and 25% each of biodiesel and petro-diesel, but Blume says they only used the petro-diesel because it was cheaper than biodiesel at the time and 50-50 alcohol and biodiesel should be fine. He thinks a minimum of 20% biodiesel and 80% alcohol would also be fine, but says it needs testing (with a dynamometer and a knock-meter). What % water would be tolerated? Water in the fuel can be a Good Thing, it improves combustion efficiency and reduces emissions - just as long as it stays in the fuel and doesn't separate. This EPA
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in Diesel Generators or BD or Blend
Happy new year for all the list members I am Pagandai Pannirselvam from Brazil. Very glad that after some 2 years of my post about blended biofuel , we have now come agian to make the debate. When I wrote about hydrated ethanol is E 96 azeotropic mixture as correctly pointed out by Keith. Recently I had made english translation of Brazilian practical experience in the page below which do not bring some practical experience of the use of fuel blend , instead of BD , in the Ecological system design wiki http://ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/page/Ecological++Biofuel+%3ABrazilian+Experiencehttp://ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/page/Ecological++Biofuel+%253ABrazilian+Experience The following is the text of Sylmar, CATI, SP Brasil Adopted resume of the translated text from Sylmar sited origional work in http://www.cati.sp.gov.br/_Cati2007/_produtos/SementesMudas/biodiesel.php From May 2003 until the second half of 2005, all tractors of Core Production of Seeds of Aguas de Santa Bárbara, CATI,SP ,BR with the jet engines direct or indirect, one of the unit Ataliba Leonel (MF235 said previously ) came to be moved with a mixture of vegetable oil (30%) more diesel oil (65%) and solvent (5% of petrol common). This mixture, called a biofuel, has very close viscosity of the oil diesel oil. A Mercedes-Benz truck, model 1313, year 1978, was also tested, running 6,000 kilometers with a mixture biofuel. The summary of the final results of these evaluations is transcribed below: Tractor / Truck * Manufacturing Year /Duration Test /Consumption average /Problems identified * Ford 5610 (ID) 1986 /1,000 hours 4.2 liters / hour no MF 65x (ID) 1972 /500 hours 3.5 liters / hour no MF 50x (II) 1972 /300 hours 2.5 liters / hour no CBT 2105 (ID) 1978 250 hours 8.7 liters / hour no MF 235 (II) 1978 1,000 hours 2.5 liters / hour no Mercedes-Benz 1313 (ID) 1978 6,000 km 3.5 km / liter none Final considerations: - The use of 100% vegetable oil as a fuel in place of diesel oil, it is possible to run , but also depends on appropriate technology of jet engines and systems to prevent potential problems caused, mainly, by non-combustion total of such oils because of high viscosity of them. The biofuel mixture consisting of 30% of vegetable oil + 65% of diesel oil from oil + 5% of gasoline with alcohol anhydrous (75% + 25%), used to replace the diesel oil from oil, appears to be a very interesting option for both direct injection engines and indirect, allowing the reduction of dependence on non-renewable fossil fuel and opening a significant market for the production of oil. This option must be considered and evaluated scientifically to obtain safe and definitive conclusions. The mixture biofuel cited in the period and the conditions in which it was tested, not shown any of the inconveniences caused by the total replacement of diesel oil by oil vegetable oils, in all cases evaluated. We must also highlight that for the tractor Ford 5610, strong indications of significant reduction of consumption were obtained during the period, which used the mixture. - Because of the possibility of: a) production of various oilseeds in all regions of Brazil, including in the semi-arid regions, b) obtaining and extraction of vegetable oils by pressing the cold and filtering directly by the severity level of rural property c) use of technology already available in European countries that allows the direct use of vegetable oils as fuel; feel the urgent need for that in our country, also devotes special attention to the alternative use of renewable fuel, in addition to the others who already are being used and encouraged, such as alcohol and biodiesel. For more information please contact and Regional Office of Andradina e SYLMAR , CATI ,SP, BR tel: 55 (18) 3722-3040. The amount much water can be good for IC motor , however the fuel efficiency willl be low. The role of Biodisel is more as an additive as same as castor oil use with hydrated ethanol , as solubility and miscibility of the only oil with ethanoo is castor oil, also having good lubricant additive properties . There is problems with blending of SVO and ethanol , as they do not mix well.several years experince to find cheap additive based on perfural , isoamyl alcohol can solve the problems in small quantity , but are found to be expansivos. The max amountof SVO found to be maxium 50 porcents petro deiesel , , other is there is problem of viscosity.The other need to be some fuel diluente petro diesel , kerosene, gasoline , alcohol and now also BD too. As mentioned in the following Brazilian experience and reports Gasoline poved to be better than alcohol to be miixed with with SVO as 75 porcent gasoline and 25 porcent ethanol However the use of BD can make possible the use of hyrated alcohol with hiher level as it is surfactant with hydrophilic and hydrophoic oil water phase miscibility , alcohol as co solvents.But as small amount as pointed out
Re: [Biofuel] (BIOFUEL)-- Future World leader in biodiesel production , Social Technolgy and Netwok .
Hi , Vivek , Keith and all the beloved list members, Well and wish the the good debate here about the great green future wit decentalized small biofuel project around the world Vivek wrote I have been reading a lot on the list since I' ve joined it a couple of weeks back. But could not get the information i was looking for. So i thought to write my perspective and get every body's input on the issue. *Vivek , the every one input is very important also. There used to be very high input here for several topics earlier , as our list was one of the big ,and the best . I am sure that all members of the list like wish to deeply understand the biofuel but few only wish to give input and colaborate about the the small scale biofuel production for the farmer of the world. There come the question of world leader of exporters ? or for self use ? Do not feel unhappy because some big business sponsored members may not give input to your questions.* As far as my knowledge is concerned the cost of production of biodiesel is not competitive to the petrodiesel and companies depend on the government support for their profits. EU though leading the race, presently, in the production of bio- diesel, but this growth is mainly on the back of government subsidies and tax holidays. But it may be very soon when other countries will take over EU . Primarily because raw material( rapeseed oil) is very expensive here. *There are globalized international cost and local cost , and surely what you mean by the cost is dependent variable on local . Some isolated area in Amazonian forest as well as other remote place , the diesel is sold 8 time more costlier than world globalised price. Any who can help and solve this energy problem eliminating this gap can be the world leader, but this is not going to be only by the big blue companies one , as the solar biomass energy is decentralised , need to involve .The big world leader planning to eliminate the small one will be not be sustainable , may be possible for short time victory and big profit ,but long time total failure.This had been the history for the seveal bioenergy big thermal energy project where the peoplles are excluded and small farmar were not included , not able to survive , as the model is not based on ecological sustainability. The cooperative of small farmerfrom Indian in west Bengal using Internet can buy Palms from Brazilian farmer cooperatives , simple hand operating low cost press made from Australia by a small company , can obtain the proven best high quality of two stage process from JTF ,Japan , without paying money for the the best technology , but I hope and wish they give donation afterwards after thet get benefits to make JTF sustainable ), get trained by fresh university students again based on the photos , step by step easy how to make low cost equipments.They can find where the market is there nearby them by social network to sell with the low price to Bangladesh poor Farmer using micro credits facility as this has already made a big world level success for irrigation to make their food as power cut is not yet solved problem there and India.. Who can be the world leader both India , Australia and Brazil , where money has come for the investments by the community who had the social capital.Here all is leader , but alone no one go to any where . For examples , even though , the cashew big industrial processing , and also business product marketing are in the hand of very few rich Brazilian and Indian merchants , but I am not sure this will survive , after web2 , second life social revolution , I am sure no one will be leader alone . Many country can help and make Microsoft as the leader , which is now not a leader in Internet world, but wish and try to be , which I am sure will be never in future as the leader as in the past , as web2 and google is coming over there, the web3 social net based face book , social web service in next web3, the third life changing can will win the the leader now but again not alone , but collective social intelligent net work , as the model for the big single leader one , if not socially justified will not be sustainable .Yet many rich business people all trying to make Brazil as the world leader in cashew industrial production as the only big leader with big automated machinery , yet India and South Africa together is the world leader in future with growing social network of web2 , as both uses solar energy , small scale appropriate technology , surviving now the big battle of the large company wih the help of the government money .Thus making the war of eradication of the small scale industries is not good and not just ,but all this go in the name of modernization , nationalization , to become world leader as if the single world leader is the the only key issue , goal for all the
Re: [Biofuel] home made ice cream ou home made biodeisel
Hi Kirk The raw cream is not available in many areas . Natural ice cream is made in India based on the use of coconut milk in the the place of raw expensive cream. Ice cream can be poisonous depending upon the people, due to the very sensation it make , leading to food memory in the Brain, leading people who eat crazy.In this sense , natural ice cream can have less effect in this context , with more natural fruits , less having more funcional nutrients and has less junk.Surely this product from coconut can be more competitive compare to home made Biodiesel as most of the people can bebe crazy to this ice cream than biofuel making . Biodeisel operated natural ice cream production can be the real solution for many sea shore area in developing country, where rich people travelers can enjoy this delicious ,making possible real globalized world. Thanking Keith , for not put this message as off topic ,.and also thanking kirk bring about a magazine which make debate on controversial opinion . Yours truely Pannir Selvam 2007/7/4, Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]: By Joanne Hayhttp://editor.nourishedmagazine.com.au/articles/author/jojo/November 16th, 2005 http://editor.nourishedmagazine.com.au/articles/home-made-ice-cream Some families have the rule, eat everything on your plate or you don't get dessert. In our family, if anyone doesn't like the dinner (as long as they actually taste it) there's no problem because dessert is just as nourishing as the meal. With whole raw eggs, raw cream and natural sweetening, our ice cream is a delicious, nutritionally dense wholefood. Since most ice cream is poisonoushttp://www.nourished.com.au/articles/ice-cream-lies, I ask the kids to say no to all other forms of ice cream, and promise to feed them this recipe til the cows come home. We use raw cream which is very expensive, but worth it. Using real cream, you won't need to eat much at once. A couple of tablespoons is enough to satisfy most adults. - 3 egg yolks - maple syrup or rapadurahttp://www.nourished.com.au/articles/sweet-sustenance/2/to taste. - 1 tablespoon vanilla extract - 3 cups heavy cream (raw is best) - optional: a splash of raw milk to make a soft serve version using an ice cream maker. Beat egg yolks and blend in remaining ingredients. Pour into an Ice Cream Maker http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=nourisnaturah-20%26link_code=xm2%26camp=2025%26creative=165953%26path=http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html%253fASIN=B000AMDNXO%2526tag=nourisnaturah-20%2526lcode=xm2%2526cID=2025%2526ccmID=165953%20and process according to instructions. If you don't have an ice cream maker: blend and freeze, take it out after 1 hour and beat by hand vigorously, repeat every hour until complete (usually 5-6 hours). Of course there are variations like, chocolate (using organic fair trade cocoa), chocolate chip (rapadura chocolate), and adding berries or coconut. -- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket:http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48253/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXICmail, news, photos more. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e Processos DEQ – Departamento de Engenharia Química CT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RN Campus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970 http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage 3215-3769 ramal 210 casa 3215-1557 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Valuable chemical from glycerol and Biofuel waste
Hi, GMSEURO As Brazil's having almost 46 percent of the best land that are very good for irrigation as well as have very good water resource distributed, the world bio fuel business is very keen on Brazilian biofuel project , as this country is now world leader about bio fuel at present. However this position is disputed now also by USA, the future is uncertain about the same who will win .As the two country business model is different, where micro distillery of Brazil can produce about half of the price of etanol and Biodiesel, the small one is competting well with the bigger on , as the micro ethanol distillary can make rapadura , animal feed , liquid fertilizer , without problem of distribution of these far way .The same model is also true for biodiesel Thus the big company can also accommodate small one.Thus we hope the glycerine waste need to be for internal market for local comunity as everything is imported in the area where biofuel glycerine is now mostly lost only very less is used. Eventhoug these waste can be used for compost and biogas very successfully our research is sure that biodegrable plastics, some protective films for the fruits can be more viable due to local market. We wish to have decentralized market oriented products development from glycerol waste . In the same direction of thinking of the most of the list members here , we wish the intermediate and social oriented technology .Any green investments , Eco business venture for the benefit of the several farmers , who are responsible for the bio fuel production are more welcome , as the Brazilian central government is now giving green seal and certificate , financial loan independent of brazilian or foriegn investor . Any collaboration , foreign investment are welcome .We will be happy to support any project for the benefit for the small farmer based on waste glycerol. Please feel free to contact us , as this business model will have great impact on future Bio fuel . Thanking You Yours sincerely Pannirselvam 2007/7/1, GMSEURO LTD [EMAIL PROTECTED]: *We will be interested to look at this project more carefully to make it a into production process. Will it be possible to provide us with more information on your exact direction on this project. * On 27/06/07, Pagandai Pannirselvam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear list members A very large quantities of liquid effluents (all acid, catalysts, glycerol) , after producing biodiesel are disposed as waste in one of the the big projects which had been given social green seal from Federal Government of Brazil. The JTF and this list have very extensively given importance to this topic focusing on biogas , fuel and soap production . Is any one have other biodegradable plastics, solid biofuel and simple polymer products that can be produced in a decentralised , ecologically sustainable way for employment generation form this huge amount of waste.possible to make wealth for many . Any help in this regard are very welcome . sd Pannirselvam -- Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e Processos DEQ – Departamento de Engenharia Química CT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RN Campus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970 http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage 3215-3769 ramal 210 casa 3215-1557 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Thank You and Regards, R.Gopal Krishnan M.Sc, ISF Managing Director GMS Euro Ltd United Kingdom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e Processos DEQ – Departamento de Engenharia Química CT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RN Campus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970 http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage 3215-3769 ramal 210 casa 3215-1557 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Valuable chemical from glycerol and Biofuel waste
Dear list members A very large quantities of liquid effluents (all acid, catalysts, glycerol) , after producing biodiesel are disposed as waste in one of the the big projects which had been given social green seal from Federal Government of Brazil. The JTF and this list have very extensively given importance to this topic focusing on biogas , fuel and soap production . Is any one have other biodegradable plastics, solid biofuel and simple polymer products that can be produced in a decentralised , ecologically sustainable way for employment generation form this huge amount of waste.possible to make wealth for many . Any help in this regard are very welcome . sd Pannirselvam -- Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e Processos DEQ – Departamento de Engenharia Química CT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RN Campus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970 http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage 3215-3769 ramal 210 casa 3215-1557 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Green bio process for Bidiesel :Coconut oil in your Car without catalyst and energy:
From Pannirselvam P.V, Brazil Hi Bruno, all other TOM,KEITH list members Thank you very much to bring here the very simple process to make bio fuel from coconut. After intensive search I am able to see the free well made videointerview of Matthias Horn German migrant and an engineer interesting interviews. One can see in this video how the cocoon oil is made as well how the oil is is stored 20 days , then used after sedimentation , in the engine as 100 porcent , which one can get very easily via google search.All rural area can develope fast as the energy cane made using simple press , not even mini oil plant may not be needed. The simple hand operated hydraulic press outlined in JTF used by us for small comunity in Brazil to make oil as well the more costlier stainless steel two tube similar press in Australia all working well to make oil from seeds in small scale level.Thepure coconut oil has 5 times much value than diesel fuel, yet can very cheap in many rural palce as diesel is 8 times much costlier now in Brazil Nearly 20 days are used with water to make the biofuel , so that the unwanted impurities including water is decanted and separated without machines . Keith replied earlier that simple process, catalyst can also work to make biofuel regarding the new catalyst preparation from spent biomass ash. I as chemical engineer , not much belief in natural ecological process can hardly believed this ,as not knowing well that the biological and ecological are always low energy , simpler rather than the man made methods , but surely , I do believe and agree with Keith that this process so simple , but does not need any catalyst at all as wel as a need to heat up . I am sure Matthias Horn really do not have recourse's and hence do not invent the things like what big companies do , yet his process need a lot of debate , as understanding of the same can be the true ecological process what we we all need as the process involve biotechnological natural process, even there is no need to inoculate the microbes . I expect Tom , Keith and other bring more information .One may wonder how 100 coconut oil after fermentation and separation of impurities , is found to be a great success, not mixed anything alcohol etc Certainly some problems may be there due to fatty acid,glycerin , but making job for mechanics are also good way , where everything is very difficult.Here in Brazil , the cost of petrol diesel is 8 times more in isolated islands. If we can use this biological methods as pretreatment before we can use the KOH liquid catalyst, we may simplify the biofuel making process. Banana leaves and stems are reported to contains very high amount of K and KOH can obtained from this em plenty . Some small amount of water ,liquid soap , fatty acids are better components biofuel than oil, or petroleum , thus no need to separate if used minimum amounts . This simple two stage biological and KOH process yet need to be optimized based on the raw material available in rural areas. Thus real rural development is not an Utopia , can be possible.But sharing this knowledge all the place is yet another problem, but our list has very good list members spread all over the world.We can do better work too, even before big blues make huge profit by buying their oil and ten making fuel , selling them with huge profit with small farmer, who are all always the good market place for big blues such as the Wallmart ,Carrefour and other Surely the reported work is not the mad man work , but a novel new process with perspective for us change the way make biofuel. Twenty years before nobody could have believed in micro computers , even Bill Gate may not believed that the open software such as Mozilla firefox can be success, but today they are reality making our social network can happens. Thus , I believe the small scale biorefinary can be possible to reduce the wastes , making wealth for all , naturally competing with mini and macro refinery .Brazilian bio ethanol is the examples where micro distilleries do coexist with mini and macro Best wishes and regard sd Pannirselvam 2007/5/9, Bruno M. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This news article is about Bougainville, an Island of Papua New Guinea, where all fuels has to be imported by ship. So fuel is expensive, that makes coconut oil as SVO or BD quicker economical feasible. Gr Bruno M. FYI: ~~ Coconut oil powers island's cars By Phil Mercer BBC News, Sydney *People on the island of Bougainville in Papua New Guinea have found their own solution to high energy prices - the humble coconut. *They are developing mini-refineries that produce a coconut oil that can replace diesel. From police officers to priests, the locals are powering up their vehicles and generators with coco-fuel. Inquiries for the coconut power have come in from
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Producing Ethanol--and Conserving the Soil
Hi , Keith Thank you bringing here the very important report Residual biomass = Food+Fiber+Feed+Fertilizer+Fuel Brazilian sugarcane distillery is also exploring very well the use of a byproduct effluent of ethanol fermentation as an organic additive to soils. This is also an example of the innovations very well to support residue removal , integrated very well with the feed , not yet for fiber, where as the solid residues India are used for paper production.More recycling of the solid residues incorporated with the effluent in Brazilian sugar cane field is more sustainable compared to India, where 10 times more chemical fertilizers , and also very significant amount of the toxic chemicals , well promoted by the very big blue companies, are used and thus less sustainable, thus raw very less green technology.The inoculated microbes as bio fertilizer also the other approach well applied in Brazil, thus making very sucess for the sustainable Brazilian biofuel project. Thus , the natural farming is no more out dated , yet the best way .This method need more recycle of solid residues for the soil , thus the system can be more productive and also more sustainable.Thus the recycle can be more easy as fertilizer rather than the fuel production . sd Pannir, Brasil 2007/4/25, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: From: ARS News Service [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Producing Ethanol--and Conserving the Soil Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:01:25 -0400 STORY LEAD: In Producing Ethanol, Some Cornstalks Should be Left in the Field ___ ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, [EMAIL PROTECTED] April 25, 2007 --View this report online, plus photos and related stories, at www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr ___ If conservation of soil organic matter is taken into account, the United States at best has to cut in half the amount of cornstalks that can be harvested to produce ethanol, according to an Agricultural Research Service (ARS) study. Jane Johnson, a soil scientist with the ARS North Central Soil Conservation Research Laboratory in Morris, Minn., found that twice as many cornstalks have to be left in the field to maintain soil organic matter levels, compared to the amount of stalks needed only to prevent erosion. This doesn't mean harvesting cornstalks for cellulosic ethanol isn't feasible--just that when you add soil organic matter concerns to erosion concerns, it slashes the amount of cornstalks available for conversion to ethanol. For example, 213-bushel-per-acre corn yields leave farmers an average four tons per acre of cornstalks after harvest. Farmers could then harvest about two tons of cornstalks per acre for conversion to ethanol--but only from land with low erosion risks, using little or no tillage. If the same farmers rotate with soybeans as recommended, they can only remove half again as much biomass for ethanol production, or just one ton per acre, to compensate for the lower biomass left by soybeans. Johnson's estimates are part of the Renewable Energy Assessment Project (REAP), formally created in 2006, although she and a core group of colleagues have worked on these measurements for several years prior. REAP was formed to ensure that cellulosic ethanol programs will be sustainable. Most participants work with corn, but others work on switchgrass for cellulosic ethanol. When cellulosic ethanol is made from corn, it uses cornstalks as well as grain. There are nine ARS locations participating in REAP in eight states, from Alabama to Indiana to Oregon. The new program also aims to compare the economic value of biomass for bioenergy versus its value for storing soil carbon. REAP will provide guidelines on harvesting biomass to corn farmers, land managers, the biomass industry and action agencies. Johnson also explored the use of a byproduct of ethanol fermentation as an organic additive to soils. This is an example of the innovations needed to support residue removal. ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief in-house scientific research agency. ___ This is one of the news reports that ARS Information distributes to subscribers on weekdays. Send feedback and questions to the ARS News Service at [EMAIL PROTECTED] * You are subscribed to ARS News as [EMAIL PROTECTED] * To change the address, please notify the ARS News Service at [EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe, send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Other ARS news products are available by e-mail. For details about them or to subscribe, please contact the ARS News Service or visit http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/lists.htm. __ ARS News Service, Information Staff, Agricultural Research Service 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.ars.usda.gov/news Phone (301) 504-1638 | fax (301) 504-1486
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel New Process
Respected Keith I am sure about the the use of ethanol, wish to send all the relevant work available from Brazil so that your experiences will be reall sucessful. Thanking you sd Pannirselvam P.V 2007/4/17, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e Processos DEQ – Departamento de Engenharia Química CT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RN Campus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970 http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage 3215-3769 ramal 210 casa 3215-1557 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel New Process
Hi, Keith, Ken and Tom Tom there is no for your apology, as we can have different views. We, Acadamics , engineers , researchers need to learn a lot from all the people like Keith and Tom who are very practical always work very near to the process problems. What always happens to all the new and old engineers who are good in process synthesis , but lack always and also very bad in critical analysis of the project with regard to materials used, the complexity and viability. Thus several millions money spent by university research are all going as a waste such as supercritical extraction for BiD good results at laboratory , but no use for largescale use. The combination of practical and concepts based on the theory need to go together in this list to evolve a better catalysts, prcoessos, equipments, process seperations. The reactive distillation means doing the reaction together with the distillation and I agree with Keith that, yet this can be only research level. After Keith explanation about mixing by recirculation is an effective way to reduce the product revers reaction of glycerol , moreover , the sediment ion of glycerol , made possible means a better way to filter out the glycerol , thus preventing unwanted byproducts. Thus understanding of the process is vital to operate the plant. At the beginning mixing can favour the reaction , the can be slow so that the product can be pulled out of reaction. I also agree with Keith , there is no point to bother about glycerol recovery as this can be easily used as liquid soap , sold soap , combustible , , for bio gas production , even as the source for rural wood energy and hence the high cost of recovery to get ultra purity glycerol is out of question as far as the small scale process are concerned. Yet I have one one question to Keith regarding the use of Methanol instead of ethanol. Will this two stage process can be possible with ethanol only or the mixture of methanol and ethanol can be possible as methanol is not ready avaialable in several developing countries. let us again wish others do participate actively in our list, as this list used to be very dynamic , let us come back all again to make this as leading one . Kind regards to all Pannirselvam 2007/4/12, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Tom, Pannir and all Pannirselvam P.V My apologies to the authors of the study. My criticisms Sounds like a poorly written science project and it doesn't seem to make any sense sprouted from my own ignorance. I am doing my homework on the subject of reactive distillation. I must admit to a bias that may compromise my acceptance of any new process. I like the idea of being able to make what I believe to be high quality biodiesel, myself, on my own spot of land, using little more than what I can scavenge from my local scrap metal dump. I think that's the main point. It's accessible to virtually anyone anywhere. A new process that goes beyond the reach of an average Tom and puts control back into the hands of big business may be new, but not necessarily better. It looks like an unholy marriage of the acid-base process and the famous supercritical methanol process (Saka et al) that was getting everyone excited a few years back - methanol at 5080 PSI and 350-400C. Um, no thankyou, I don't want big business doing that anywhere near me, let alone backyarders. High temperature + high pressure + lots of methanol as with this new process is likely to kill someone, I fear. As you said: The new generation biofuel is like the new wave social web2 , the free open process for several billions farmer to be free and independent of the big blues globalised market .This the natural way for green future for all , where all are included to have the sustainable green fuel . You may be right when you say ... some novel modification can be possible to make more environmentally friendly our old two stage proven JFT BioD process. I think so too, but not if it means trading in some of its many advantages (KISS, for instance). Thank you for your response and I look forward to discussion and enlightenment by list members as this story unfolds. Best Wishes to You, Tom - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Pagandai Pannirselvam To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel New Process Dear Cris,Thomas Kelly,Tom ,KEN , From Prof Pannir,Ufrn, BRAZIL 2007/4/10, Thomas Kelly mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Chris, I agree with you when you say I can't see anything new about their process and it doesn't seem to make any sense.. PannirbrCertainly the results compared to the conventional process has merit and has more sense , as the cost of separation of good grade glycerol involve more than 50 percent the total cost
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel New Process
Dear Cris,Thomas Kelly,Tom ,KEN , From Prof Pannir,Ufrn, BRAZIL 2007/4/10, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Chris, I agree with you when you say I can't see anything new about their process and it doesn't seem to make any sense.. PannirbrCertainly the results compared to the conventional process has merit and has more sense , as the cost of separation of good grade glycerol involve more than 50 percent the total cost of the BioD production.It is the fact that It reminds us to be of a poorly written science project as this is because the information of the novel technological process are valuable , but the farming community is one who share the knowledge freely.Surely Keith know well how hard for him to get the new BioD process information published in JFT, but incomplete information are always available and here too the same is true .However the project has good future even for small scale production in farm scale as very good results have been reported for the product quality of BiOD, glycerol,recovered alcohol The New Process appears to be the two stage acid/base process. Stage One involves esterification of fatty acids methyl esters. Stage Two is the transesterification of mono-, di-, triglycerides methyl esters. Pannnir The combined reaction and separation known as reactive distillation is an advanced novel innovative system of chemical engineering process engineering subjects.I am sure that l the small scale production in farm can do benefit using this novel methods not as it is as this is complex units , but can be modified if one wish to get recovery of alcohol and glycerol I don't know why filtration is included in each stage prior to washing. Pannir the product glycerol combine with ester , making the reverse reaction.If you can understand also the diverse di glycerol byproducts making the biofuel with less quality.The better the separation as soon this is formed better the yield , product quality. I'm also confused about Distilling the washed and dried Crude Biodiesel to get Biodiesel. While it is possible to recover methanol from the glycerine mix and even from the unwashed biodiesel by distillation, washing removes any excess methanol, so I can't imagine why one would distill washed and dried BD. PannirbrReally we need more information and I can agree with you. I think it is not a simple distillation , but extractive distillation to recover back diverse di ,tri esters formed.If you remember that this process new , the co products need to be recovered as the catalyst is yet not an perfect one. The 30 minute reaction time referred (as an advantage of the New Process to is only for Stage One (acid esterification). There is still a 1 -2 hour base catalyzed transesterification (Stage Two). It also claims that there is no stirring . I suspect this is wrong. Pannirbr I think,this is possible , eventhough not enough information is yet known , if one understand well what is reactive distillation some patented related with the processare known one. If you combine distillation and reaction, the products , alcohol and water are separated simultaneously .Several patented process does prove that it is possible to get results with out the use of mechanical agitator's , but thermal energy are used , which can be recovered , thus the process is designed to be more energy efficient It says that the Classic Process cannot use soy, rapeseed, palm, coconut, sunflower, jatropa, recycled oil (WVO), or lard Wrong again. The acid containing oil as well as the water content are yet still technical problems , as the transesterification reaction using alkai catalyst are very sensitive in terms of yield and quality . It reminds me of a poorly written science project. The project has merit surely , but have very poor content as they do not wish to share the technical information. There are several innovations especially the better quality of all the products , higher recovery , less reaction time , more productivity , better energy recovery less environmental problems .But I agree with all the coments here in the list that this much advantage is needed for the farm scale production not worthy considering the complexity In this sense our old JFT two sage still can be gold.Yet some novel modification can be possible to make more environmentally friendly our old two stage proven JFT BioD process We from Academic research will always wish to invent the process , so that the farmer can also modify to be more productive , the better the quality of the products totally diferent of academic one. I wish also to get the comments as our list has so many members from several countries , only very few members are involved here in recent biofuel list discussions..The more younger list members views , our list leader Keith very balanced view
Re: [Biofuel] small biodiesel plant
Ola eduardo Temos muito empresa quem esta realizando o projeto em pequena escala , tais como Erictech , Tech bio e outros Bom voce veja busca em internet , muito facil vc ter acesso em insatnte . Nosso grupo de pesquisa pode fazer projeto preliminar e estudo de viablidades. sd Pannirselvam Brasil 2007/2/5, Eduardo Vallarino [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Can anybody help me find a small bio-diesel plant supplier ? Sort of a Plant for Dummies Also, so far the only source for Methanol is a plant in Chile. Can anybody suggest another supplier willing to cater to a small plant ? Eduardo Panama ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e Processos DEQ – Departamento de Engenharia Química CT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RN Campus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970 http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage 3215-3769 ramal 210 casa 3215-1557 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] new alcohol ideas
Hello Jason Katie Yes , surely , glycerol can destroy the azeotropics ethanol water system , and has been proven industrial method to purify ethanol based on extractive distillation method of separation However the viscosity , high energy input related with cyclo hexane , this method is not that much economical in relation with preferred cyclo hexane method. There are some pataents made on the use of glycerol to recover and reuse the pure ethanol , as you believe , and this can be good approach to get pure ethanol With regardsPannirselvam P.V2006/9/29, Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED]: i just had a bizarre idea. someone please argue with me on this, but ifglycerine is categorized as an alcohol, would it work to use castor oil topurify it, the same as ethanol? ideas?comments?JasonICQ#:154998177 MSN:[EMAIL PROTECTED]--No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/458 - Release Date: 9/27/2006 ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e ProcessosDEQ – Departamento de Engenharia QuímicaCT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RNCampus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage3215-3769 ramal 210casa 3215-1557 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sustainable Farming
Hi Mike As bio fuel list has very good people from different countries, it will be interesting to bring the information on this sustainable integrated organic farming here to this list . As sustainable biosystem development using ecological engineering is our object , we do find lack of information with respect to integrated fuel, food, feed , fiber and fertilizer (5F) using organic farming , some time called small bio refinery and organic farming Thus natural , organic farming to need to integrated wit small biomass refinery too. In this context ,this is one reason that the integrated approach of Keith , JTF has very good succes to be the best biofuel site , still able to survive as the in the globalized highly competitive Internet field as sevel new are coming up rapidly. Our research work involve the integrated sustainable of the following systems by a small group in Norteast sem arid lands. 1.The hay farming system of ruminant animal production integrated with small organic food production. 2.Integrated novel aquaphonic horticulture with chicken farming. 3.Integrated fish and sprawn organic farming with earth warm biocompost . 4.Integrated biogas , micro algae , organic fish production. 5.Integrated Bio diesel , organic animal feed system 6.Integrated small ethanol plants with organic aquaculture system . See here some of our initial ideas about our projects : http://www.writely.com/View.aspx?docid=dfdhjswc_7g8rzmm And I wish that other list members too bring some sucessful organic system , from india , china are tradicionally organic , can bring good information too. I expect Keith give some useful stories here from Japan , so that we can follow the example to bring here to this list the useful information in every country about the state of art of Small integrated dynamic bio system of organic farming . this can be surly ,more useful than about Bush and USA , which I am sure are off topics , , as i am not against the same posted here. Any excess is not good for the list . Yous truly Pannirselvam P.V Yours truely 2006/9/29, MIKE BODAK [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I am sending a request to the list. I cannot seem to find this on thewebsite.Maybe, this was something someone (Keith perhaps) had writtenoff the top of their heads, but I cannot find the information.I have been planning an organic farm / homestead for some time now and have comea little closer by making arrangements to purchase 75 acres in the nearfuture.I have also been trying to spread the word of organics and their possibilities and would like the information for that.Anyway, someonewrote a piece that discussed the growing of alfalfa, growing rabbits, andplanting a garden and the ability to do this harmoniously and have excess. The piece also discussed how it could be expanded to chickens, ducks,fish, cows, etc...A link to the info or article would be appreciated.Thanks,Mike BodakMike BodakExhibits Technician Arizona Science Center 600 East WashingtonPhoenix, Arizona 85004602-716-2570HANDS-ON, EYE-OPENING FUN www.azscience.org__ Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection aroundhttp://mail.yahoo.com ___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e Processos DEQ – Departamento de Engenharia QuímicaCT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RNCampus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970 http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage 3215-3769 ramal 210casa 3215-1557 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] From the BBC -- Biofuels: Green fuel, feed, fertilizer , feed
Dear Tom , Jason and Keith Clean technology using no waste from crop can be more sustainable providing not only bfuel , but also feed , food in rural areas. Tom has correctly brought here how we can do this for many crops The bio refinery can separate oil , carbohydrate , and starch which using simultaneous malt enzyme hydrolysis and fermentaion can give the etanol in rural raes, ,The yeast byproducts from animal as well the proteins from oil crop can be good feed for for sustainable animal production manure micro alge fish production based on the effluents and biofertizer based on well estabilized biogas technology. The small co generation of electrical energy based on the bio diesel can make possible the use of pure used vegetable oil and also some e 5 porcent hydrated ethanol , making possible to lower the viscosity of used vegetable oil in deiesel engine , removing dependence with Conventional deisel. Thus the blend of used vegetable oil 70 percent, hyrated ethanol 10 percent and biodeisel 20 porcent can be used with less problem for motor maintainence in rural areas. The sixty porcent energy recovery from small cale cogeneration can be used for distillation of the etananol and heating for thr production of the biodeisel Some energy recovery can be made also during anaerobic or anaerobic compostings.I am sure biofuel can make sustainable economic growth only if they look for the independence of small remote areas from imported food and fuel . Tom has very well desribed this interated biofuel prouction together so taht waste to get energy from biomass need systematic approach fo the whole integrated use of natural resource to economically viable and ecologicaly sustianable , socially desired To make possivel biofuel and this biorefinary one as small as possible and make this information via JTF are the journey for the great green future of not only for the the biofuel , but also the only way possible several millions people who stive live without energy especially in poor countries. 2006/9/24, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Jason, When you say as for using fossil fuels to harvest ethanol crops, i would say it is a nessecary evil until the harvesting equipment can be fueled entirely by alternatives. I wince a bit. Why not run the tractors on alternative fuels? The cost of alternative fuels such as BD and ethanol, includes the fertilizers used to produce the feedstocks, the fuel used to run the tractors for tilling, planting, harvesting, the energy is processing/distilling, anf the cost of transportingand distributing the fuel. The cost is often based on the mistaken notion that the BD produced OR the ethanol distilled is the only valuable product of the harvest. I compare this to raising beef cattle only for rib eye steaks, or chickens only for theirwings, and throwing the rest out (paying to have it disposed of). If this were the case then the cost rib eye steaks and chicken wings would be prohibitive (even more prohibitive?) What if: 1. Vegetable oils were extracted and used for cooking, then recycled and, with animal fats - BD to run the tractors/distill the ethanol, or use the WVO directly to run generators/burn in oil-fired burners to distill ethanol. 2. The remaining starch from the plant after pressing for oil was fermented and distilled (w/o using fossil fuels). 3. Stems, leaves, roots silage for grazing animals enriched by the protein that remains in the feedstock after it has been pressed for oil and fermented for ethanol. 4. Use biogas (methane) from the animal manure to run generators, tractors, or burned for heat (including distillation). 5. Methane gas (biogas) production does not compromise the value of manure as fertilizer. Use the manure for fertilizer after methane gas has been produced. 6. Recycle the glycerin cocktail produced during BD production. If split w. phosphoric acid, the excess KOH in the mix forms potassium phosphate a valuable fertilizer that could be added to the manure. If split w. sulfuric acid the KOH forms potassium sulfate (Nitrogen in the manure + Potassium, Phosphorus, and Sulfur from process are the big 4 in fertilizer. The manure already contains the micronutrients). After recovering excess methanol, the glycerin from the mix not only composts well, but I've found that it actually stimulates decomposition. 7. Do this onlocally to minimize transport costs/waste. I've been told that little is wasted in processing butchered animals. This mentality might be applied to our crops. A given crop might one day be viewed as part food and part fuels. I'll leave it toyou to factor in the cost tax payers already pay for fossil fuel subsidies, and what we all payfor health care, property damage, human suffering due to air pollution. What is the cost in tax dollars, insurance premiums human suffering for the disasters that global warming brings? Feel free to add other hidden costs associated
Re: [Biofuel] diesel tree
Hi Keith and Peter Brasil is big country .we are in the norteast , the amozonian forest is inthe north about 4-5 hours air travel from our place.The seed of the native plants can be easily obtained as there are several natural products small business is there in several forest areas. The amazonian copia oil is avialble as , the medicnal value of this plant is well in the regioes. As this natural seed coolection can really help the very poor people in the very lees deveoped are , we wish to help any one inthe list to get the seeds. Thanking to bringing very viable alternative biofuel plants that can make better life for many . This is how we can make use of the natural selection 2006/9/24, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]:Hi Peter Thanks for the updater and the url, by the way, very interesting!Why don't you post it onlist?Hi Keith ;Anyone know where to order seeds?BRPeter G.Thailand No. Pannirselvam might know, or other Brazilian list members.Or try ECHO, maybe.http://echonet.org/ECHO: Networking Global Hunger SolutionsSeeds from around the world (marked excellent): http://www.seedman.com/2006 Exotic Plant and Garden Seed CatalogThese from JtF's seeds page:SeedSaving Resources -- This comprehensive site is a one-stop-shop of Web resources on plant genetic resources, seedsaving and seedswapping, and worldwide sources of organic, heirloom, open-pollinatedand non-GE seed and plants. http://homepage.tinet.ie/~merlyn/seedsaving.htmlSeed Saving ResourcesThe Seed Exchange email list has nearly 700 members from around theworld, including university agriculture departments and research stations. Moderated list, no advertising, members' email informationkept totally private. To subscribe send a blank email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word SUBSCRIBE as the subject of the message.Maybe more information here:Lost Crops of the Incas: Little-Known Plants of the Andes withPromise for Worldwide Cultivation Board on Science and Technologyfor International Development, National Research Council, 1989, ISBN 0-309-04264-X.Detailed information on more than 30 different Incan crops thatpromise to follow the potato's lead and become important contributorsto the world's food supply. Some of these overlooked foods offer special advantages for developing nations, such as high nutritionalquality and excellent yields. Color photographs of many of the cropsplus the authors' experiences in growing, tasting, and preparing themin different ways. Full text online at the National Academic Press: http://www.nap.edu/catalog/1398.html(Anyone) let us know how you get along.All bestKeith___ Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e Processos DEQ – Departamento de Engenharia QuímicaCT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RNCampus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage 3215-3769 ramal 210casa 3215-1557 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Biofuel tree
Hi Keith and Peter Brazil is a very big country ,we are in the Northeast , the Amazonian forest is in the north about 4-5 hours air travel from our place.The seed of the native plants can be easily obtained as there are several natural products small business is there in several forest areas. The amazonian copaiba oil is available as , the medicinal value of this plant is well in the regioes. As this natural seed collection can really help the very poor people in the very lees developed are , we wish to help any one in the list to get the seeds. Thanking to bringing very viable alternative bio fuel plants that can make better life for many . This is how we can make use of the natural selection sdPannirselvam -- Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e ProcessosDEQ – Departamento de Engenharia QuímicaCT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RNCampus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970 http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage3215-3769 ramal 210casa 3215-1557 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] 2 new additions
Ola Jason e Katie Happy welcome to the new baby and wish the child to have better world than what we live. 2006/9/23, Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED]: correction- 20:42 and 20:45JasonICQ#:154998177MSN:[EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message -From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Friday, September 22, 2006 11:52 PMSubject: [Biofuel] 2 new additionsi have some fantastic news this week. on sunday, september 17th at 16:42 and 16:45 my small (yet excessively loud) twin sons Ryken and Xavier were born. katie is healthy, albeit tired, and the boys are on a steady track to coming home next week. (theyre in the nursery until they can regulate their own body temperatures) Jason ICQ#:154998177 MSN:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.6/453 - Release Date: 9/20/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.6/453 - Release Date: 9/20/2006--No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.6/453 - Release Date: 9/20/2006___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e ProcessosDEQ – Departamento de Engenharia QuímicaCT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RN Campus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage3215-3769 ramal 210casa 3215-1557 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ENZYMES
Hi Juan e Javier 2006/9/4, CARVAJAL BARRIGA ENRIQUE JAVIER [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thanks Juan:I will be asking for enzymes and also I will try to use some fungus tohydrolysate the substrate. I have done my Phd thesis making cellulase enzyme using Fungus Trichoderma Verde , during 1977 and 1983, the best especie selected by very famous researcher Mary Mandel , US Natic Army research laboratory who is very kind to send the same for several resarch institute to all the world and latter renamed as Trichoderma ResseiI am not sure about the efficiency of using fungus, because I think they are hydrolysating the woods for their own metabolism, and probably itwill diminish the amount of sugars to be converted into ethanol. It is not practical one, eventhough can be used as pretreatmento for delignication before using enzymatic hydrolysis During fermentation , the operating conditions for the cell growth for extraceluar enzyme growth need to me maintained and this is not the ideal one for the enzymatic hydrolysis. Moreover the sugar will be consumed for the cell growth . The crude culture can be used with out the need for purification and concentration of the enzymes. The reuse of enzymes are possible using new substrates , making possible the reduced consumption. However the pretreatment need to be realized, as any impurities of the substarte can be inhibits enzymes.We can send useful information to any one of our group.Keith, has already longe before told me to write about ethanol from cellulose and some very useful information have been also available as post in this list sdPanniselvam In thisaspect, probably the use of purified enzymes increases the yield of ethanol and, also may reduce the time of hydrolysis.I'd like to know your opinion on that respect. Kind regards,Javier-Mensaje original-De: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] En nombre de Juan BovedaEnviado el: Viernes, 25 de Agosto de 2006 15:19Para: 'biofuel@sustainablelists.org'Asunto: Re: [Biofuel] ENZYMES Hola Javier.Check with your local industrial washing operators of stone washed denimjeans.Many of them might use stones and celullase. They might tell you thesupplier of those cellulases usually they are many times cheaper than chemical reagents suppliers.There are some brands of hemicellulase and cellulase some are providedbyNovo from Denmark or from others companies.The cellulases are external enzymes from many sources, mainly from fungalorigin and some you might find in your backyard, some good ones forlignocellulose are Pleurotus sp.some used in oriental dishes andothersfound in the white decay of woods, they might be cultivated immersed in agitated liquid media with wood pulp and some others nutrients similarto adiluted fertiliser plus some yeast extract with a clean air pumpedinsidethe liquid.Best Regards.Juan-Mensaje original- De: CARVAJAL BARRIGA ENRIQUE JAVIER [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Enviado el: viernes 25 de agosto de 2006 10:42Para: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgAsunto: [Biofuel] ENZYMESTo anyone who can help indicating me where can I find the appropriateenzymes to totally or partially hydrolysate lygnocellulosic materialsuch as spent grain from breweries to become fermentable sugars looking to further bioethanol attainment. And also If anyone is involved in asimilar project to exchange experiences.Many thanks,Javier Carvajal Information from NOD32 This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System for Linux MailServers.http://www.eset.com___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or gBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e Processos DEQ – Departamento de Engenharia QuímicaCT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RNCampus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage 3215-3769 ramal 210casa 3215-1557 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol use
Hi Charles There is a patented information about using the zeolites at the top of the reactor , which can be very selective to adsorb and return back pure alcohol see google search using free patent site. Then you can recover the catalyst using solar energy to remove water.In the case of ethanol , the higher temperature , I am not sure that higher can fovour the reaction.Can any one have the experience to give more informatiion? With kind regars to all biofuel members yours truelyPannirselvam P.V2006/8/21, Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] :Hi allIt's slowly turning to spring down here in the southern hemisphere, and a young man's thoughts turn to what he's going to get up to inthose long summer evenings. Me, I think only of biofuel! I am havinggood progress and results with methanol but my long term plan is tobe completely self- sufficient and ferment my own ethanol to use in my reaction. I will first buy some denatured ethanol to practice on,and I have read what is on the JtF web-site and realise I will needto really dewater my oil, use more ethanol than methanol etc. I wouldlike to know, however, if I can increase the temperature of the reaction mixture to cut down the time taken for the reaction asethanol boils at 78C rather than 65C, and if there are any otherhints/ tips people can give through their experience of this reaction.Thanks Charles List This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone.www.schoolzone.net.nz This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone,but is not guaranteed to be virus-free.--___ Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e Processos DEQ – Departamento de Engenharia QuímicaCT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RNCampus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage 3215-3769 ramal 210casa 3215-1557 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [biofuel] Methane Digestor
Yes we have experience in Brasil --- Jack Kenworthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] escreveu:Hello, We have a constructed wetland at our school that processes our sewage from roughly 70 people. The system has a settling tank where solids are seperated out before sending the fluid waste into the wetland gardens. Every year or so, the solids build up and need to be pumped out. I am wondering if anyone knows if there is a way to build a digestor to be able to extract methane from the solid waste? I have seen systems in Cuba using cow manure, but never with human waste. Any ideas? thanks, jk Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Island School 242-359-7625 ph. 242-359-7697 fax www.islandschool.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] = Dr.PAGANDAI.V.PANNIRSELVAM Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] COORDINATOR RESEARCH BASE Phone: 55 84 2153769 or 217 1557 - 207.7278 UFRN/CENTRO DE TECNOLOGIA Fax : 55 84 2153770 or Fax(phone) 217.1557 Chemical EngineeringCEP : 59.072-970 CAMPUS - UFRN/NATAL/RN Brazil -- ___ Yahoo! Acesso Grtis Internet rpida, grtis e fcil. Faa o download do discador agora mesmo. http://br.acesso.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- áFREE Health Insurance Quotes-eHealthInsurance.com http://us.click.yahoo.com/1.voSB/RnFFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biofuel progress in india
hi We from brasil is also have good progress , we can exchange the information. sd Pannirselvam --- Suraj Vinay [EMAIL PROTECTED] escreveu: Hi, I think this project is in its embryonic stage in INDIA so if anyone can guide me into converting or using bio-fuel engines it would be a step in progress in INDIA. If you havvent beeen here then you will not know the vehicular congestion has created a zone for diesel emissions and dark smoke on to the ecosystem . I think with its large vehicular population especially deisel ones, we can profit as well as progress in the right direction if on a semi large scale we can bring out some kind of progress here. Thank you SUraj VInay Mohan = Dr.PAGANDAI.V.PANNIRSELVAM Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] COORDINATOR RESEARCH BASE Phone: 55 84 2153769 or 217 1557 - 207.7278 UFRN/CENTRO DE TECNOLOGIA Fax : 55 84 2153770 or Fax(phone) 217.1557 Chemical EngineeringCEP : 59.072-970 CAMPUS - UFRN/NATAL/RN Brazil -- ___ Yahoo! GeoCities Tudo para criar o seu site: ferramentas fceis de usar, espao de sobra e acessrios. http://br.geocities.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
