Re: [biofuel] Re: Price of Gas update
There are allowable differences in the sulfur content of on- and offroad diesel fuel. If a fuel has been dyed for offroad use, this indicates no road tax paid. It also may mean this fuel may have higher sulfur content, although not necessarily. Robby Davenport [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/17/2003 11:05 AM Please respond to biofuel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:Re: [biofuel] Re: Price of Gas update they say there is more sulfur in the off road diesel but, that is balony it is simply died to indicate no road tax has been paid and it is off road fuel Robert girl_mark_fire wrote: hi kim, I recently read somewhere that there's a difference in the sulfur content of red dyed diesel and on-road diesel. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I was at firehall training on Saturday for our new truck, we watched a film by Ford. In it they state that 'agricultural' diesel is a lower grade fuel that can harm a diesel engine. I always thought the only difference was the color of the fuel, does any one know anything about this? Bright Blessings, Kim Steve Spence wrote: Red Diesel (or offroad diesel) is also sold (no road tax) here in the USA. Big fines for truckers if it's found in their tanks. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Price of Gas update Darryl, Here in Europe it is the same, except that one is colored to be able to control that you do not use heating oil in cars. It is a pure tax difference and we are prohibited from using heating oil in on road vehicles. For off road agriculture and machines, it is allowed. Hakan At 04:09 PM 3/14/2003 -0500, you wrote: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: These two photos were taken a half hour apart. The price had held steady for a few days. Don't know why Diesel went down while gasoline went up. As I understand it, gasoline and diesel and heating oil are all produced from refining oil, usually by fractional distillation. Diesel fuel and heating oil are largely interchangeable in terms of production from raw stock, and occasionally in use. If the demand for heating oil production is easing in anticipation of spring arriving, this is probably allowing for increased production of diesel fuel. Darryl McMahon Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] School busses
EPA Region 1 and Union of Concerned Scientists both have a number of pamphlets and press releases on the subject. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/08/2002 04:31 AM Please respond to biofuel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:[biofuel] School busses I'm making a case for the use of WVO in school buses. Anyone got any references on the school bus / passenger health situation? Thanks in anticipation James Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] barrel of oil
159 liters goat industries [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/20/2002 10:54 AM Please respond to biofuel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:[biofuel] barrel of oil I've been trying for months to find out what a 'barrel' of oil is in litres. My WH Smith pocket diary does'nt have conversion figures for this one! Paddy Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Definition of diesel
Have you tried the sections of the CFR that deal with Department of Energy or Department of Transportation? timothyennuinet [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/05/2002 11:41 PM Please respond to biofuels-biz To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:[biofuels-biz] Definition of diesel It seems that yellowdiesel has had a smack down from the EPA (as many of us know) for the 'unlisenced' production of fuel. I looked at yd's asite, then went to the EPA site and got out the relevant text of CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) that refer to diesel fuel. Here are two pieces that were of interest to myself: 40 CFR 80.1(x) Diesel fuel means any fuel sold in any state or Territory of the United States and suitable for use in diesel motor vehicles, diesel motor vehicle engines or diesel nonroad engines, and which is commonly or commercially known or sold as diesel fuel. (y) Motor vehicle diesel fuel means diesel fuel, or any distillate product, that is used, intended for use, or made available for use, as a fuel in diesel motor vehicles or diesel motor vehicle engines. There is also a requirements piece that refers to sulfur ppm, cetane number, aromatic content and dye content. All standard tests, and which do not cost a million bucks to do. So, I'm confused. Either the EPA is flexing its muscles in territory in which it has no business doing so (I could find ZERO mention of the phrase 'biodiesel' in the CFR database), or, failing that, if the definitions and requirements which apply to petro diesel were also to be applied to bio diesel, then it would be easy to meet those requirements, in which case they would also be unlawfully flexing their enforcement powers, and in fact would be lieing. Now.. is there another section of the CFR that specifically deals with biodiesel? 'Alternative fuel' (Couldn't find a doc stating that either)? Which section did they cite? I'd personally like to know, and to reference them myself, to see if they even have a leg to stand on. See, if it isn't in the CFR, they can't do it, nor can they demand it. Unless I'm missing something here. Please let me know if I am off base, or am on target. --T Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] FERMENTING REBELLION
The rancid fumes were not those of fermenting corn; they had always been fermenting at that facility. The fumes were from the drying of the stillage. By the way, I think they mean the first and only urban ethanol plant. Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/24/2002 01:36 PM Please respond to biofuel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:[biofuel] FERMENTING REBELLION FERMENTING REBELLION One fine morning just over a year ago, residents of St. Paul, Minn., woke up choking on the air they breathe. What had happened? A friendly neighborhood brewery had been converted into an ethanol plant -- without any studies to determine the potential environmental impacts -- and the plant had begun spewing the rancid fumes of fermenting corn. The foul plume blanketed most of St. Paul and many of its southern suburbs -- and mobilized Andy Driscoll to do something about it. As one of the founders of Citizens Alliance for a Safe Environment (and this week's diarist), Driscoll has been battling Gopher State Ethanol's St. Paul plant from the get-go. Read about the latest skirmishes, only on the Grist Magazine website. only in Grist: Ethanol in a day's work -- a week in the life of Andy Driscoll, Citizens Alliance for a Safe Environment -- in our Dear Me section http://www.gristmagazine.com/dearme/driscoll051302.asp?source=daily Grist | My Week | Driscoll | 13 May 2002 Andy Driscoll, Citizens Alliance for a Safe Environment Andy Driscoll, a writer and communications consultant in St. Paul, Minn., is a founding organizer of Citizens Alliance for a Safe Environment (The CASE). Monday | Tuesday | Wednesday | Thursday | Friday Monday, 13 May 2002 ST. PAUL, Minn. July 2001: It's decided. We're going to take legal action. Here's why: With nary a question nor an environmental impact statement, the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency issued Gopher State Ethanol a permit to pollute based entirely on lies contained in the company's application. The MPCA told us, the residents of St. Paul, that only an environmental action worksheet was necessary to determine the potential adverse effects of converting a century-old brewery to the first and only ethanol plant in the world. That was in 1999, or around there. The dates get blurry, what with the whirlwind of activity. [more, much more] ... to the first and only ethanol plant in the world. That was in 1999, or around there... Huh? Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Toyota's Green Machines
If you are interested in full energy cycle analysis of advanced fuel/engine combinations, see http://www.transportation.anl.gov/ttrdc/pdfs/TA/13.pdf Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/15/2002 01:57 PM Please respond to biofuel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:Re: [biofuel] Toyota's Green Machines To add diesel to the mix there about 30-40% efficient. With city/highway driving at say 50/50 I'll figure diesel at 20% efficient proportional to gasoline which is up to 30% abouts. 0.84 x 0.20 = 0.168 or about 17% well to wheel. To summarize from well to wheel vehicles: 13% Gasoline 17% Diesel 21% Electric 25% Hybrid Electric Vehicle (gasoline) 33% HEV diesel (just guessing) -- That's an interesting interview, Hoagy. And a nice summary. Since Watanabe was talking of overall environmental effects, GGs, etc, it should be added that it's important where the electric vehicle gets its power from - from RE sources, great, from fossil-fuel sources, not so great. (And also how the batteries are disposed of.) How about if the other four used biofuels? No, don't try, it'll bust your calculator - interesting to know though, eh? Regards Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fuel-enhancer making inroads (?)
This product does seem interesting, but if carbon dioxide is reduced, in what form is the carbon being emitted? Matter can't just be destroyed you know. dennis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/11/2002 08:51 AM Please respond to biofuel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:Re: [biofuel] Fuel-enhancer making inroads (?) their product is very interesting, it sounds like something that diesel engines need. products like that may be the only way to clean up engines burning #2 diesel. i work on farm tractors and have seen how much carbon builds up in the cylinders. dennis Keith Addison wrote: What d'you think of all this then? http://www.solpower.com/soltron/soltronmain.asp Solpower Corporation - Soltron http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.asp?file=/2002/5/7/features/hrfu elnewspage=Search Tuesday, May 7, 2002 Fuel-enhancer making inroads By HILARY CHIEW HOW would you like to cut your monthly petrol bill by 10% and help reduce global warming at the same time? This is achievable if you mix 20ml of a fuel additive to 100 litres of fuel in your petrol tank, claims the manufacturer of Soltron, the latest organic-based fuel-enhancing agent for motor vehicles in the market. Soltron is said to contain organic enzymes that break down the molecular structure of fuel and its contaminants, so that it becomes easily combustible. Soltron is said to be able to reduce smoke emission from vehicles like the commercial truck in this picture. At a product demonstration in Petaling Jaya recently, Solpower Thailand Co Ltd, the regional manufacturer of Soltron, presented its findings in a field test on a fleet of five trucks in Bangkok. Over a period of 30 days, we recorded an average of 8.5% fuel savings for every kilometre per litre, says Boonrat Nanta, the company's technical manager. The organic fuel-enhancer, when used on the state railway in a 14-day trial period, yielded a 14.6% savings on diesel consumption, says Boonrat. The test also registered a significant reduction in the emission of sulphur dioxide (by 25.5%), carbon dioxide (16.6%) and nitrogen oxide (16.8%) - all harmful gases which contribute to global warming. Soltron contains no heavy metal or biocides and is thus harmless to the environment, says marketing manager Mike Indasorn. The bio-enhancer eliminates water from the fuel delivery system and prevents rusting. The enzymes neutralise sulphur oxides formed during combustion. This significantly reduces the formation of sulphuric acid which corrodes engine parts. Indasorn recommends, for the first treatment, a ratio of 40ml of fuel-enhancer for 100 litres of fuel for better performance. Subsequent applications require only a ratio of 20ml to 100 litres of fuel. Not everyone was impressed with the new product though. Some of the logistics managers of transport companies and petroleum companies who were present at the product demonstration had reservations though. The product should undergo a fuel performance test locally to verify its claims before it is marketed, says Dr Azhar Abdul Aziz. Azhar is attached to the Automotive Develop-ment Centre, Faculty of Mechanical Engineering, Universiti Teknologi Malaysia. Authorities like the Department of Environment, Chemistry Depart-ment and Sirim should also check on the various claims of the product, including the gas emission rate. Azhar later confirmed that the company had expressed interest in sending its product for trial tests at the university's laboratory in Sku-dai, Johor. Meanwhile, the fuel-enhancer which is distributed by local agent N-Viron Sdn Bhd, is purported to be well-received in the market. Dr Sasanuma Masatsugu says the Soltron technology was developed over a 10-year period. At the product demo, two users were invited to share their experiences. Previously, one full tank gave me 540km but now I can reach 620km, says airport limousine driver Mustafa Seman. I only send my car for routine lubrication service after clocking 8,000km as the engine still has good pick-up. Another user, businessman Wil-liam Thevarakam, says his fuel consumption was reduced by 14%, enabling him to save RM75 a month or RM900 a year. He also found a smoother engine after the first application. Soltron inventor Dr Sasanuma Masatsugu of Solpower Corporation Japan says the fuel-enhancer can help clean up the fuel delivery system; the result, of course, depends on the age of the car and how it is handled. He adds that the technology, which was developed over a 10-year period, was introduced in Japan in 1982. It was endorsed by the Environment Ministry and the automobile industry. Solpower Thailand Co Ltd is the production and marketing arm for Soltron in Asia and Europe. The fuel-enhancer is currently used in 40 countries, including the United States, Britain, Japan, Hong Kong and Taiwan. For enquiries, contact N
Re: [biofuel] E85 conversion
With the proper conversion, there's no need for separate fuel tanks. steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/08/2002 07:35 PM Please respond to biofuel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:Re: [biofuel] E85 conversion check with the folks at www.e85fuel.com Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: jmyt_47 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 2:22 PM Subject: [biofuel] E85 conversion Hello, I'd like to convert my '97 Dodge truck, 5.9L V-8 to run on E85. I live in MN, and the fuel is readily available(usually 20 cents cheaper per gallon than regular gas) I have been unable to find any conversion kits. I would like to be to run the truck on both fuels. What fuel system changes do I have to make? I was thinking I could add an auxillary tank to hold the E85. I could double up the PCM (engine computer) with one that's customized for the E85 combustion settings, so I could change between fuels when needed. Any info or help would be appreciated! Jamie p.s. My next truck will be a diesel... then I can make my own fuel! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] BD SPECIFIC GRAVITY
Specific gravity: Ethanol 0.789 Methanol 0.791 Biodiesel 0.87 #2 Diesel 0.85 - 0.93 FARMFEED [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/06/2002 10:41 PM Please respond to biofuel To: BIOFUEL USERGROUP biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:[biofuel] BD SPECIFIC GRAVITY Have any of you come across the Duvalco Diesel filter? It is apparently a very simple filter that works on the fact that water and diesel have different specific gravities and hence is able to separate them out. I wondered if it could have applications for separating BD and also ethanol or methanol from water. The manufacturer tells me that diesel has a SG of 0.87 compared with 1.0 for water. So any product with a SG of less than 0.87 will be separated out by the Duvalco filter. Can anyone help me with the SG of ethanol and methanol? How far different is the SG of BD from that of fossil diesel? Thanks Peter. Peter D.M. de Wet [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Is it now time to talk to your congressman?? again
FYI- Octane number: iso-octane = 100 heptane = 0 ethanol = 113 kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/01/2002 05:30 PM Please respond to biofuel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:RE: [biofuel] Is it now time to talk to your congressman?? again They changed the way of measuring octane rating. Ethyl alcohol was 100 under the old system. Probably a higher number under the new system. Optimum compression is just before it detonates. Race cars ran 13.5 to 1 with alcohol. The more you put your foot in something the hotter it gets. If racers ran 13.5 to 1 grandma could probably run a but higher. Fuel efficiency is directly proportional to compression ratio. Kirk -Original Message- From: MH [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 1:34 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Is it now time to talk to your congressman?? again steve spence wrote: Gasoline is ~118,000 BTU/gallon Diesel is ~135,000 BTU/gallon Ethanol is ~80,000 BTU/gallon BioDiesel is ~117,000 BTU/gallon this, btw, is very interesting. take the time to go through it all. http://www.tc.gc.ca/envaffairs/climate/doc_converti/Etoh/ETOH-FNL-RPTAug30-1 999.htm http://www.eap.mcgill.ca/magrack/SF/Winter%2091%20M.htm http://www.afdc.nrel.gov/questions.html Thank you Steve! Have not read through entirely but question energy value that does not, I think, consider Internal Combustion (IC) engine compression ratio (CR) and ethanol OH, octane boost. For example (e.g.): http://www.eap.mcgill.ca/magrack/SF/Winter%2091%20M.htm The energy value of a gallon of ethanol varies from 75,700 BTU 84,000 BTU depending on burning temperature. We will use a figure of 80,000 BTU as this is the energy value of ethanol burning at 25 degrees C. If eye remember correctly 100% ethanol optimally utilizes about 12:1 CR. As the ethanol to gasoline ratio increases ideally so should CR. With increased compression also temperature. I don't have a link at this time but what I understand is ethanol to gasoline relationship begins to balance or equalize efficiency (mpg) when engine/fuel specific CR is observed. The OH provides a measurable increase in complete combustion magnified by CR (ideally) suitable for ethanol octane rating. I believe I read this as well in the The Mother Earth News (TMEN) article about their ethanol pick up truck conversion or Steve or Keith's site on ethanol production. What I've observed with my GeMe is increased mpg with E-10/gasohol more then not. The station pumps reads: gasoline 87 octane, E-10/gasohol 89 octane. Again thank you Steve for the links and will read further. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.350 / Virus Database: 196 - Release Date: 4/17/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.350 / Virus Database: 196 - Release Date: 4/17/2002 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] New member
These sort of crops for producing biofuel have a number of advantages. They are less energy intensive than corn meaning they don't require as much fertilizer, pesticide, fuel for tractors, etc. They can be planted on marginal land, that is, land that isn't suitable for traditional row crop agriculture. They are more effective at preventing soil erosion. When planted as a buffer between a field of crops and a wetlands or stream, they can take up chemical runoff from the field, protecting the water from contamination. They also provide habitat for wildlife. beki317 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/30/2002 05:37 PM Please respond to biofuel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:[biofuel] New member Hey guys. Just as some background, I'm a 16 year old girl from New York. I am on my school's Envirothon team (you can kinda guess what that's about...) and this year our problem is that hypothetically, the government of town or city wants to replace large fields of corn with growing switch grass and willow shrubs to produce biofuel. I was hoping you guys could help me with some pros and cons, especially pros, of doing this, like how would it really effect our environment? And what kind of mandates or tax breaks or what not would there be? I have found many great sites on using switch grass as biofuel, but absolutely none on willow shrubs. So help if you can! Please! Thanks :-) ~Beki Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Peculiar Farming for Fuel oversights was Re: [biofuel] Re: Is it now time to talk to your congressman?? again
For more energy savings, if spoilage is not an issue (i.e. cattle feeding operation is nearby), stillage does not need to be totally dried to DDGS. It can be fed only partially dried. steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/01/2002 05:49 AM Please respond to biofuel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:Re: Peculiar Farming for Fuel oversights was Re: [biofuel] Re: Is it now time to talk to your congressman?? again indeed, see http://www.methane-gas.com and http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/methane.htm Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: motie_d [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 2:56 AM Subject: Peculiar Farming for Fuel oversights was Re: [biofuel] Re: Is it now time to talk to your congressman?? again --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], jmwelter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that much of the grain produced in the world is directly fed to livestock and there are advantages and disadvantages here: advantages: a)the nutrients found in meat are more available to our bodies than those found in plants (especially proteins and fats) b)dairy cows fed distillers grains will produce more milk with higher protein (the stuff is extremely expensive because of that by the way) c)animal manure is the most efficient fertilizer compared to those made from oil! (and this should be the #1 consideration for renewable fuels since not all oil becomes gasoline but a major chunk is converted into ammonia and other fertilizers which increase yield while sacrificing the microorganisms which are the lifeblood of organic farming. disadvantage: a)except for feeding to dairy animals for milk production, the use of grains to feed cattle for meat is a very inefficient one. my conclusion: BALANCE Let me tip your balance a bit. When those Dairy cows you mentioned eat the DDGs (Distiller's Dried Grains) they produce manure. STOP! Don't put it on the field yet. Pass it through a Methane Digester first. You gain a bunch of energy in a usable form, and the manure is now odorless, and still has all the nutrients in it. The only thing missing is the energy. Some tests(no link handy) have shown the manure to be an even better fertilizer after the anaerobic bacteria have broken it down, making it more available to the plants, and less likely to wash into a stream. TILT! Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 2 stages... what if? (new method?)
This is actually a very good idea. It's used in some very sophisticated biochemical production processes. You might look into a chemical engineering unit operations text for further development. Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/01/2002 11:18 AM Please respond to biofuel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:[biofuel] 2 stages... what if? (new method?) I was reading Alek«s 2 stage method today, when it came upon me that maybe, to a certain degree, we could boost efficiency a little with a related method. It«s nothing out of this world, but still. Has anyone ever watched when stirring a solution with undissolved particles still in it, that because of centrifugal forces and velocity of the fluid, after neatly stirring in circles, the solute will start forming a galaxy shaped figure. This goes for any undissolved particles: maybe the thin foam on the surface of a cup of tea, or the undissolved sugar at the bottom... anything. When I say galaxy shaped it«s because that is what it looks like (and because the same physics rules surely apply to the formation of them)... i.e.: a sort of open spiral, with a core that spiraling tentacles which all seem to point out following a curved path. Sort of as if you held an octupus from above, and slightly rotated his head with his tentacles still on the ground: from up top you«d see the head (core) and the spiraling tentacles. But enough about that (I hope my explanation is not too far fetched). We all know now that the WVO/methoxide reaction is an equilibrium reaction, which can attain a considerable efficiency, but does not reach completion. We have also said that in an equilibrium reaction, removing some of the products of the reaction displaces the reaction twards the products« side, thus forming a higher quantity of them (and this is useful when working with any eq. reaction). Last but not least, we all know how un-homely and $$$ a centrifuge machine can be. When you stirr your Biodiesel, a great portion will appear in a visible form. That is, if you start from 1lt WVO and 200 ml Methoxide, maybe you«ll get, say, 200 ml of untreated glycerin once you pass the settling stage (don«t qote me on that number... I«m using it to quantify my explanation). Probably after the 50 minutes mix you«ll already have at least 100 ml settling quicky at the bottom, and you«ll have to wait for the settling stage to get the other 100 ml out of the BD mixture. Now, if you use a circular container, as a stainless steel bucket (for my small batches, I use a satinless steel ice bucket), and you mix with an electric stirrer (I use a 9V motor with a steel coat hanger molded into something that resembles a rod with a small hoop at the end), and after that you try to form a deep vortex (still never allowing the vortex to reach the tip of the stirrer and forming trillions of unwanted bubbles), then you«ll get the mixture flowing in a circular motion. The glycerin that visibly separates after 50 minutes of stirring will probably be located just below the stirrer, in the center of the bucket, right at the bottom, just as in the cup of tea. If you placed a little tap (a hose epoxi-ed to the bucket and secured closed with a clamp), then, while stirring fast enough to make the fluid move in a circular matter, but slow enough to let this motion flow uniformly, you could take these 100 ml of glycerin out of the bucket, and allow the reaction to continue producing some more BD (and glyc). You could meanwhile separate the glycerin from any trespassing BD, and throw this small portion of BD back in again while you maintain the reaction for a bit longer, maybe 40 minutes more. I«ve still not tried this, but if there was any more settled glyc while stirring in the secnd stage, you could even perform a third stage, removing this newly formed glyc. The spiral galaxy forms because as the physics laws for circular motion tell us, the liquid moving far away from the center of rotation rotates at an angular velocity equal to that of the liquid close to the center, but covers a greater distance in the same time, so actually, it«s moving much faster than the liquid at the center. This is the principle of most separators used in the industry. At lower velocities, the particles settle. A spec of sand will only remain airborne at a certain air velocity, below which it will fall down. In the BG/Glyc system, the glycerin is denser so it sinks to the bottom, and behaves as the spec of sand jest described. In the periphery, far away from the center of the bucket, the mixer makes the fluid move quickly, but in the center (just below the stirrer), velocity drops and so, any decanted glycerin will tend to star gathering up near the center og the bucket and ath the bottom, fomring the spiral galaxy shape described (or at least following this pattern... various factor many times
Re: [biofuel] 2 stages... what if? (new method?)
This is correct. I guess centrifugal separation would be a better idea for continuous processing, as it would allow fresh feed to be introduced. Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/01/2002 11:01 AM Please respond to biofuel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:Re: [biofuel] 2 stages... what if? (new method?) I don't have any hard references on this, but I believe the precipitation of glycerine from the biodiesel reaction as a separate phase is all that is required to shift the equilibrium. Whether a glycerine molecule is in a separate droplet a millimeter away, or a separate bucket six feet away, it's basically out of the picture. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: 2 stages... what if? (new method?)
Some pharmaceutical manufacturers perform separation of continuous fermentation products in centrifuges. Product leaves centrifuge for further refining and purification and fermentation medium can be recycled. motie_d [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/01/2002 04:33 PM Please respond to biofuel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:[biofuel] Re: 2 stages... what if? (new method?) --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was reading Alek«s 2 stage method today, when it came upon me that maybe, to a certain degree, we could boost efficiency a little with a related method. It«s nothing out of this world, but still. Has anyone ever watched when stirring a solution with undissolved particles still in it, that because of centrifugal forces and velocity of the fluid, after neatly stirring in circles, the solute will start forming a galaxy shaped figure. This goes for any undissolved particles: maybe the thin foam on the surface of a cup of tea, or the undissolved sugar at the bottom... anything. When I say galaxy shaped it«s because that is what it looks like (and because the same physics rules surely apply to the formation of them)... i.e.: a sort of open spiral, with a core that spiraling tentacles which all seem to point out following a curved path. Sort of as if you held an octupus from above, and slightly rotated his head with his tentacles still on the ground: from up top you«d see the head (core) and the spiraling tentacles. But enough about that (I hope my explanation is not too far fetched). That is a very intriguing possibility. I don't have time to conduct any experiments with your idea, but I do agree it should be worth some further investigation by someone with an interest and the time. If anyone does any experimentation with this method of separation, PLEASE post it here. I have an inkling that the diameter will have a fairly large effect on the results, as well as the speed of rotation. This could have many applications outside of the field of home Biodiesel production. Fermentation projects come to mind. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Anyone in similar position?
I don't know about biodiesel, but I have heard of decommissioned breweries converting to fuel ethanol production. Steve Madley [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/30/2002 01:01 PM Please respond to biofuels-biz To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:[biofuels-biz] Anyone in similar position? Hello all I've been a subscriber to this excellent group for over a year now and this is the first post that I've placed, so I hope someone can help. I used to operate a Real Ale microbrewery in my town for a number of years before giving up due to pressure from Duty payments and the 'Big Breweries' in relation to my profit. I now have a redundant brewery that I believe is perfect for conversion to biodiesel manufacturing plant. This consists of 5x 180 gallon food grade stainless steel Grundy tanks. Is there any other person or group out there who has any past experience or knowledge in this type of plant conversion who can assist in any way? Absolutely any input will be appreciated. Best regards Steve Madley Delicate Essence Scotland U.K. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Peculiar Farming for Fuel oversights was Re: [biofuel] Re: Is it now time to talk to your congressman?? again
Bravo! Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/30/2002 02:38 PM Please respond to biofuel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:Peculiar Farming for Fuel oversights was Re: [biofuel] Re: Is it now time to talk to your congressman?? again No Motie...no confusion here. Are you aware that distiller's grains are fed to livestock? Are you also aware that the vast majority of arable landmass is dedicated to livestock? Are you aware that the primary product of low-oil yielding soybeans is feed meal for livestock? In a nutshell, the vast majority of all agriculture is dedicated to livestock - even in the midst of farming for fuel issues. Just from the total caloric inputs vs. caloric yield equation, you might consider taking a look at Rifkin's Beyond Beef or Robbin's Diet for a New America. The simple facts of the matter are that most of what you and others call energy crops at present are actually primary livestock feed sources. The fact that ethanol can be derived from the grain prior to the feeding of livestock, or the fact that the oil extracted from soy can be turned into biodiesel while the primary product goes to livestock are in themselves declarative that what many perceive as wasteful practices are actually rather utilitarian. Unfortunately, many people, inclusive of Pimental, Club Sierra, and other self-interest groups fail to acknowledge the multiple end uses of all the primary and coproducts, essentially pigeon holing the mechanical energy issue and errantly declaring energy products from crops as being wasteful. Balderdash...Pure Hornswaggle and Tommy rot...! What would be wasteful is if the distillers grains or soy meal were just thrown on the dung heap, rather than utilizing them - which is not what happens in the real world. Perhaps if one these people want to make declarations as to wasteful agrarian energy practices from the caloric inputs vs caloric outputs perspective, they should start with that Bacon Egg and Cheese Biscuit they had for breakfast, the McNuggets or Whopper they had for lunch or that roast simmering on the stove for dinner. But then, that's getting too personal. It's much easier just to address energy issues in the main, as we've all been in the habit of attacking traditional dirty energy supplies such as coal, oil and nuclear. Why shouldn't biodiesel or ethanol be made an equally visible target? It sure conveniently takes the heat off our personal dining practices, which in their market entirety are the driving mechanisms of most agriculture - considerably more of an impetus than our automobiles are. Maybe we should put a few farmers to work on ways to feed the by-products of coal, oil and nuclear to livestock, so we can get as maximum a utility factor from them as we do from corn and oilseeds. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: motie_d [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:08 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Is it now time to talk to your congressman?? again --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Arguments against US corn and soybean biofuel seems outlandish IF it boosts bushel price due to increased demand thus lowering US gov't subsidize payments helping to balance US deficits You can take my discussion points as either for or against, depending on your perspective. I agree with the use of EXCESS crop production being used for energy purposes. I dislike the inefficiencies of it. If farmers are going to grow energy crops, I think they should be growing Sugar Beets for Ethanol, or several alternative higher- yielding Oil Crops instead of Soybeans. I think it is foolish to grow Corn with the intention to produce Ethanol from it. If the corn has been grown for feed, and has been overproduced, of course it should be converted instead of left to rot. Have I thoroughly confused everyone yet? Motie and I would think the savings might provide synergy for invested interest in further development of the next big oil bonanza. Maybe a gov't.inc revenue restructuring without further citizen tax dollar giveaways and perhaps a boost for business/job development. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
RE: RE: [biofuel] Is it now time to talk to your congressman?? again
Methanex's chemical by itself did nothing to the environment. MTBE does not separate itself from gasoline and selectively leak from the tank. Although MTBE is a health risk, it is not by far the most toxic component of gasoline. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/30/2002 03:45 PM Please respond to biofuel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:RE: RE: [biofuel] Is it now time to talk to your congressman?? again Hello Keith and everybody I read the links you sent, it kinda leaves a man speechless. Wouldn't you think that California could counter sue Methanex for the cost of cleaning up the pollution and for endangering human lives. Couldn't Menthanex be held accountable for what it's chemical did to the enviroment. George Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello George Good points you make. The company's called Methanex. Here's some background: http://ens-news.com/ens/sep2001/2001L-09-07-09.html NAFTA used to challenge environmental laws - September 7, 2001 http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20011015c=1s=greider The Right and US Trade Law: Invalidating the 20th Century - October 15, 2001 http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12233 Trading Democracy - January 15, 2002 http://www.latimes.com/business/la-09237feb06.story?coll=la-headli nes-business Ban on MTBE Induces Suit Using NAFTA Provision - February 6, 2002 http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101020325-218330,00.html Toxic Trade? A Canadian chemical firm says California's pollution controls violate NAFTA rules - Mar. 25, 2002 (Access ain't free.) Best Keith I heard sometime back that the company that made MTBE was going to sue the state of California because they had banned MTBE. This was a Canadian company and that the MTBE ban was in violation of the NAFTA agreement. I would take this to mean that MTBE is imported from Canada. California Senator Feinstein says the ethanol provision in the energy bill will cause a gasoline price skyrocket in California because the state will not be able to ship in enought ethanol to meet needs. Why is it any easier to meet MTBE needs from Canada than ethanol from the Midwest. Or maybe MTBE is manufactured in state. If plants to produce MTBE can be constructed to make MTBE in large enought quanities, then why not ethanol plants. California is one of the largest milk produceing states in America so apparently they have cows. If they have cows then they should have some cow feed, right. That should be about all that is needed to produce ethanol. Or maybe a little closer to the truth. Everybody knows that the American government is in bed with big oil. Maybe Feinstein and the N.Y. senators as well, are simply coming up with every excuse they can to protect their true interests. Apparently big oil own some Democrats as well as all Republicans. The hell with America, the hell with California and New York, these people are just out to do what is best for themselves. Typicial politicians. I read somewhere that for every million dollars we spend to buy foreign products we lose so many jobs in the US. I forget the numbers but it was staggering how many jobs are lost because of America's dependence on foreign oil. I would have to think that this would include MTBE from Canada as well. The people who wrote this report didn't say just jobs in the Midwest or on the coasts. Just that they were American jobs. Even if it was only produced in the Midwest it would be good for the whole country. George Why are there no ethanol plants in NY,CA? does nothing grow in these states Do they not have ports to import cheap corn to make ETOH? Does California produce all their own dino-fuel, or did they support building a pipeline down from Alaska. I think there ought to be an added tax on any Ethanol shipped out of a state else the people that paid for these plants are not going to realize the cost savings of local production. Why doesn't CA have enough ethanol plants, the Federal Gov't has been begging and paying for them for a while and its only getting better. Come on Coasties put on your thinking caps and figure out ways to make ethanol and biodiesel and get with the program. __ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo
Re: [biofuels-biz] Shelf life
Depends on storage conditions. Both decompose in the presence of moisture. Wouldn't recommend storage of either, but especially sodium methoxide--it's flammable. Steven Hobbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/24/2002 06:56 AM Please respond to biofuels-biz To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:[biofuels-biz] Shelf life Just a question, when you mix methanol and NaOH or KOH, what is the approximate shelf life? Will it keep for a matter of hours, days or weeks? Is there any possibility of pre-mixing and keeping on hand for latter use? Regards Steven Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: NBB Micro-Manufacture Revisited
Re: [biofuel] materials balance
The materials balance of biodiesel production will obviously depend on your feedstock. Naseem Aziz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/23/2002 09:21 AM Please respond to biofuel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:[biofuel] materials balance Dear Members, I am new entrant of the Bio-fuels group, I want to know the materials balance of the Bio-diesel manufacture, wheras we get all the information about the in-puts (i.e. Methanol, Oil/fats and the Caustic Soda) and the quantities/weights of the in-puts but concrete information about the by-products and their quantities are not available like wts of Glycerine and Soap obtained per unit wt of Bio-fuel/diesel manufactured, can anyone help Regards, Naseem Aziz [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] religion and biofuel...and ATP
ATP is adenosine triphosphate -- perhaps one of the most important biochemicals. It serves both to store energy and regulate biochemical processes. It appears in many diverse biochemical pathways. AOAR Welch B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/22/2002 02:16 PM Please respond to biofuel To: 'biofuel@yahoogroups.com' biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR) Subject:RE: [biofuel] religion and biofuel...and ATP i'm not sure what ATP is.could you explain? -brad- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 7:59 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] religion and biofuel...and ATP Religon and biofuel are connected in a way the none of us have the courage to acknowledge. the fact that all old alcohol producers become organic gardeners. you can feed a cow or your children food made from oil but you cannot feed your yeast showes the intelligance of ATP. the one chemical in every living thing, plant or animal.If there is a physical GOD it would have to be ATP. a cream soda was once flavored with glycerin but then they found out if you cook oil it taste just like a cream soda. oil is a magneticly transported waste product of ATP and we suck it out with straws and feed it to our children every day Ethanol production is the way out of this cycle. no artifical chemistry involved. get a grip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
