Re: [Biofuel] India's gift to green drive: Bicycle @ 40kmph
Shimano used to have something called the biopace chainring. The chainrings where oblong, so that you would get a more powerful downstroke. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopace -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Worthy Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 9:17 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] India's gift to green drive: Bicycle @ 40kmph For a bit more detail.. http://www.indiainnovates.in/Medalists2008.pdf On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 11:24 AM, MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This I'd like to read more about. Can someone help me? -Hoagy --- India's gift to green drive: Bicycle @ 40kmph 2 Aug, 2008, 2045 hrs IST,Moinak Mitra, ET Bureau http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Indias_gift_to_green_drive_Bicycle__40kmph/articleshow/3319246.cms NEW DELHI: India could soon take pride for reinventing the wheel and leading the global green movement! An innovation by a senior administrator at IIT-Kharagpur is helping him ride the humble bicycle at 40 km an hour and pedalling past motor vehicles on busy roads without much effort. And you could be next - cycle manufacturers are planning to launch these hot wheels commercially, very soon. Manoj Mondal is the inventor of the crank pedal-he successfully tweaked the pedal of a bicycle to an extent that it generates almost double the torque (force multiplied by the distance from the centre) than in normal circumstances . In other words, the speed of the bicycle increases from, say, 20 km/hr to 40 km/hr. His feat has already made him the toast of incubators , the green lobby and a host of companies which are coming forward to adapt Mondal's technology commercially. While the invention ushers in revolutionary intra-city commute, it cocks a snook at the fuel brigade as the inventor apprehends auto majors may just gang up to disembark his plans. I want to first launch the product in the ladies' and sports bicycle categories since speed is critical here, says Mondal, who has initiated talks with cycle brands like Atlas, TI Cycles and Hero. There's more. Tweaking the pedal to generate more torque can create 700 watts of electricity per unit, says Mondal. Now that's enough to light up 10 neons. Next, he's working on a prototype where pedalling on a stationary cycle has the potential to dig a bore deep enough to make a drain, and construction major Escorts seems to have shown interest in the new technology, says Mondal. Besides, Mondal's invention is slated to benefit rickshaw-pullers as the Centre for Rural Development has shown keenness to convert 10,000 rickshaws into the crank pedal mode this year. Though power companies haven't lined up yet, bicycle makers seem to have grasped the next wave. I'm awaiting the final prototype (from Mondal) and then intend to take it to the dealers en route the market, says R K Kapur, chief general manager of technology at Atlas Cycles. Vasant Devaji of TI Cycles claims that a meeting with Mondal is scheduled next month to take the project forward. For the time being , the marketing muscle is being provided by the Lockheed Martin India Innovation Growth Programme that was launched in March last year jointly by Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (Ficci) and the IC2 Institute of the University of Texas. This year, Mondal's crank pedal won the silver at the Lockheed Martin India Innovation Growth Programme. We are helping Mondal to tie up with the Hero Group and are also in touch with the Ministry of Rural Development to roll out his invention, says Nirankar Saxena, additional director at Ficci. As stewardship of the environment takes on an ever-increasing importance for the global community, we have seen great promise for such inventions to increase energy efficiency, save precious resources, and reduce pollution, says Ray O. Johnson , CTO of Lockheed Martin. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Regards, Jim -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080813/9ef9f8a1/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] The food emergency and food myths
Don't farmers have the right to sell their corn to whoever they want to sell it too? Even if corn is going to make ethanol, so? So the world has increased its demand for oil, and that means that oil costs more, that means that we need to find ways to offset that, so we make corn into ethanol, and now corn costs more. Maybe if the oil producing countries of the world didn't need indoor skiing and rotating towers(see Dubai), and such a large profit margin, then we would have gone along consuming just like we had been. Oil costs around $1-$15 to produce a barrel. It's sold at $143 a barrel. Someone's making a helluva profit in there. Even barring the fact that some of this corn is being diverted to other uses, it costs more to produce it when diesel goes up. Those tractors don't run on water. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chip Mefford Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 12:14 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The food emergency and food myths Keith Addison wrote: http://www.grain.org/seedling/?id=552 Seedling July 2008 The food emergency and food myths Why Bush is wrong to blame Indians for the rise in food prices Vandana Shiva * I really enjoy Vandana Shiva's input. It's clueful and very well thought out. That said; SNIP agribusiness in the current food crisis, both through speculation and through the hijacking of food into biofuels, I keep hearing about this 'hijacking of food into biofuels' argument. Anyone have the numbers to back this up? The increased 'demand' for ethanol in the US, is at least partially due to the gigantic surpluses of 'feed corn' over the last decade. That corn is only food in an abstract sense, it's mostly all starch, not edible directly. I'm sure this year the corn yields will be down, no doubt. But somehow, I don't see the correlation. -- Chip Mefford Before Enlightenment; chop wood carry water After Enlightenment; chop wood carry water - Public Key http://www.well.com/user/cpm ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] soap titration
I don't think I've seen anything on this aspect, and as I'm kind of new to make BD, I don' t know if knowing how much soap you're producing would help correct the problem or not, but the place I get my isopropanol from has a link now mentioning soap titration, so I thought I'd share. http://www.sciencecompany.com/biodiesel/index.htm -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080620/616b0951/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA
Maybe he's working with a group of guys to make it. Maybe he owns a delivery truck. Maybe he owns a company that has 12 trucks in its fleet. Maybe he has a hole in his storage tank. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:47 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA Keith Addison wrote: I'm having a hard time finding WVO. I need 500 Gallons per month and I'm tired of driving around and fighting for oil at every restaurant within 10 miles. I've found other companies in other states that sell and deliver larger quantities but nothing close to home. I'm just outside of Philadelphia - has anyone heard or run into such an animal. Thanks, Roger Why do you need so much oil? That should be enough for 12 people. This is the US Keith :) Yes, Chip, I know. :-) But it just doesn't wash. I also come from a big country, not that big, but big enough, so I know something about it. I quite often used to drive 1,000 miles each way for the weekend, or 400 each way for a different weekend. In an 850cc Mini, foot flat all the way at 80 mph, and not very much gas used. (I'm not small, 6ft 2in.) Japan's a big country too, in its way, narrow but long. Where you guys need a 6.8 litre F250 truck the Japanese use little 660cc K-trucks, for just about everything, very economical, tough and capable. Good 4x4 too, not easy to get stuck in a K-truck. They're real trucks, but miniaturised, not made-over cars. I don't think Japan would work very well without its K-trucks, I can see it sort of slowly grinding to a halt. There are K-cars too, all the K-vehicles have low taxes to encourage people to buy them. I wonder if your F250s accomplish that much more work than Japan's K-trucks do (let alone 10 times as much work, since they're 10 times as big), and what the real costs might be per unit of work accomplished in each case, or some such efficiency comparison. I've no idea where to find such data, if anywhere, but it might be a surprise. Anyway, the cases you describe don't seem to be typical for the US, according to these stats, source U.S. Department of Transportation: Average annual fuel consumed per vehicle (gallons) - Passenger car - 2005: 541 Average miles traveled per vehicle (thousands) - Passenger car: 12.4 http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004727.html That's about what I thought, 12,000 miles a year, 500 gallons. So yes, Roger's 500 gallons a month should be enough for 12 people. I don't know, but I don't think he's in the same situation as you. He says he's just outside Philadelphia, he said before he works for a laboratory surplus equipment company, in Philadelphia I guess, though maybe not. So why does he need so much fuel? Interesting numbers at that infoplease page. Number of passenger cars registered 1960: 61,671,000 2005: 135,568,000 Did the US get twice as big in the meantime? No: Vehicle-miles traveled - Passenger car 1960: 587,000,000 2005: 1,689,965,000 It got three times as big! LOL! Sorry. snip But still I see no real changes, just individual disasters. That's the problem eh? Ordinary people, the real ones, get hurt first, and the toy people don't feel a thing. I suppose long-haul will go by train, or not at all, trucks will be for local. Hm. The Japanese don't export the K-vehicles, but I think you can get second-hand K-trucks in the US now. Maybe some of your trucker friends might be interested in this: http://www.best-used-tractors.com/mini_truck.html Used Japanese 4X4 K-class Mini Trucks, Micro Trucks - US and Canada The Japanese have been making right hand drive light duty trucks for decades which Best Used Tractors can now import used in containers to the US, to Canada, and to many other countries around the globe. Bit of money to be made there, I think. Could even be trendy, sort of an anti-Hummer. Best Keith Lemme see, 500 gal of svo, could yield 500 gals of bd, for a 30 day month, that's ~17 gallons a day, in my F-250, that get's 16-20mpg,if I drive it really gently, that's 300 miles a day, but that's every day. Since I live 127 miles from where I work, I could *almost* burn that much. However, I don't commute, I only go home on the weekends, and I don't drive the truck :) Some folks will boggle at that. But around here, it's not as far-fetched as one might -at first blush- think. Of the 80-some-odd folks that I work with, more than half of them commute more than 50 miles a day, some more than 75. A few well over 100. I personally drive just a bit over 70 miles a day on average. On the road, I see vehicles coming in from much farther out that are gigantic fuel burners. These are daily commuters, 2.5 to 5ton class diesel trucks close to fully loaded with welders, etc. that probably log well over 200 miles a day, and I'm sure they don't get anything like 15-20 mpg. So, yeah, I can see how some folks,
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA
Ya just never know ;) This is almost as intriguing a mystery as all those feet washing up in canada. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:03 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA Maybe he's working with a group of guys to make it. Maybe he owns a delivery truck. Maybe he owns a company that has 12 trucks in its fleet. Maybe he has a hole in his storage tank. Maybe he'll tell us himself. Keith -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:47 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA Keith Addison wrote: I'm having a hard time finding WVO. I need 500 Gallons per month and I'm tired of driving around and fighting for oil at every restaurant within 10 miles. I've found other companies in other states that sell and deliver larger quantities but nothing close to home. I'm just outside of Philadelphia - has anyone heard or run into such an animal. Thanks, Roger Why do you need so much oil? That should be enough for 12 people. This is the US Keith :) Yes, Chip, I know. :-) But it just doesn't wash. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question
I've gotten one to pass a wash test, but I stopped with test batches until I get a more accurate scale. Its too hit or miss with the scale I have now. I use a drill with a hollow-wall molly anchor as a stirrer and use a piece of Velcro strap to keep the drill moving at a low speed. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Kelly Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 5:36 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question Steve, Have your test batches passed the quality test? I do my test batches in a pot on a coleman stove out in the garage so I can maintain the temp. How do you agitate the mix? Is the processor an open pot? Tom - Original Message - From: Steve Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org; biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question I do my test batches in a pot on a coleman stove out in the garage so I can maintain the temp. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 1:58 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question Hello everyone, my first post i want to apologize if this has been answered, but I have searched the archives and relevant sites without finding a clear answer. I've been reading the j2f howto for doing my first test batch with unused veg oil and a blender. I see that I'm suppose to pre-heat the oil before starting the process to 130 deg F, but everything else i read says I need to maintain that temperature which isn't possible without moving the oil back to another container that can be heated so I guess basically i'm asking, is that temp (130) required for the reaction or does it just aid in a faster reaction. Thanks Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question
I think (but I'm not sure) that methanol will evaporate at 140, is that correct? If it is, then keeping the temp below that would become very important too. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Thomas Kelly Sent: Mon 4/28/2008 6:39 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question Mike, Test batches can be difficult .. well worth the effort. Blenders provide excellent agitation, but it is difficult to maintain the proper temp. PET bottles allow one to maintain temp better, but agitation may be inadequate. It is important to maintain temp even if you must interupt agitation. Suggestion: Achieve the temp of 130F, blend for 5 minutes, check temp If necessary, carefully return the liquid to a container to be heated. Return to blender and repeat 2 (3?) more times I use a hot water bath for heating the mix. Do you have a pot big enough to fit the blender pitcher into? The pot would contain hot (~150F) water. Instead of pouring the hot mix back and forth you could simply place the pitcher from the blender, with top on, into the hot water bath to re-establish the 130F, blot dry and buzz it again. I have returned to doing some test batches. I favor heating the mix in a PET bottle that has a wide mouth with a twist open/close top. Sport drink plastic bottles often have this feature. This allows me to limit methanol evaporation while heating the mix. I either twist the top to open while heating or I squeeze the bottle to decrease volume of air before closing and heating. The wide mouth and a funnel make it easy to add the liquid. I heat the mix in a hot water bath. Good Luck, Tom - Original Message - From: mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 3:57 PM Subject: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question Hello everyone, my first post i want to apologize if this has been answered, but I have searched the archives and relevant sites without finding a clear answer. I've been reading the j2f howto for doing my first test batch with unused veg oil and a blender. I see that I'm suppose to pre-heat the oil before starting the process to 130 deg F, but everything else i read says I need to maintain that temperature which isn't possible without moving the oil back to another container that can be heated so I guess basically i'm asking, is that temp (130) required for the reaction or does it just aid in a faster reaction. Thanks Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question
I do my test batches in a pot on a coleman stove out in the garage so I can maintain the temp. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 1:58 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question Hello everyone, my first post i want to apologize if this has been answered, but I have searched the archives and relevant sites without finding a clear answer. I've been reading the j2f howto for doing my first test batch with unused veg oil and a blender. I see that I'm suppose to pre-heat the oil before starting the process to 130 deg F, but everything else i read says I need to maintain that temperature which isn't possible without moving the oil back to another container that can be heated so I guess basically i'm asking, is that temp (130) required for the reaction or does it just aid in a faster reaction. Thanks Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] american Trucks
I've also heard that the powerstroke is hit or miss. Anything after 2003 is going to be a lot quieter than the old diesels, there were some new federal requirements imposed in 2003 about noise levels. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 2:33 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] american Trucks Most of the diesel mechanic's I've talked to only recommend the cummins engines, which means the dodge trucks, or the F550 and larger Fords. They also don't recommend using biodiesel, for the most part As far as running on biodiesel, I think that just about all of the older ones are compatible -- only the very newest ones with the high pressure common rail systems have reported any problems that I am aware of. The new ones are very nice though... I have a friend with a 2008 Ram 3500, and it barely sounds like a diesel any more, and has enormous amounts of torque (it slows down a bit coming up the last hill to my house when pulling the tandem axle trailer fully loaded firewood or a skidsteer or such... but that same hill easily drops my old car into 2nd gear too.). The very old ones are the best if you want to do SVO since they're not as picky on fuel... I know there are particular years and pumps that handle it better than others, but I don't have the experience to know for sure. In Canada, I'd recommend a two tank SVO type system just to run biodiesel... just here in Colorado I have to switch to B20 in the winter or I get gelling pretty bad (mitsubishi pickup) at temps below 25F (which is often the high temp for the day) Z On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Fritz Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, a friend of mine wants to buy a 250 Pickup to pull a 5.whealer trailer What model should he look for to be able to run on BD.We think to look for a 2tank system.Up here in Canada we have very cold winters Thanks for your help Fritz -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080428/e4c0a8af/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] We Need To Solve The Oil Crisis--Now
Speed limits should not be set at the national level, it's a state or municipal issue. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Schneider Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 11:26 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] We Need To Solve The Oil Crisis--Now So then what would be the suggestion? Sometimes laws are necessary to help or protect those who can't or won't do it them selves. If on a national level if lowering the speed limit 10 to 15 mph would help decrease our dependance on foreign oil or any oil for that matter then it should be addressed regardless of how popular or unpopular it is. Granted there are some laws that are nonsense, but they are necessary because without most of them there would be utter chaos. Brian On Apr 24, 2008, at 1:16 PM, Chip Mefford wrote: Brian Schneider wrote: Hello, Just a comment, why don't we in the US do something else that was done in the 70's oil crisis...drop the speed limit back to 55. There were a *lot* of problems with this. I'm not going to go into it all, in fact, I'm barely going to scratch the surface. But essentially, the nationwide 55mph speed limit was about as popular as prohibition, and caused many of the same problems. In interest of full disclosure, when ever I hear 'There ought to be a law, I duck. We have plenty of laws. a few orders of magnitude too many I'd say. In fact, I'd point to the current state of affairs as my primary exhibit in the 'laws don't fix anything' presentation. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] We Need To Solve The Oil Crisis--Now
More laws don't fix a damn thing - look at the 'War on Drugs' or Washington DC where handgun ownership is illegal and the crime is the worst in the country. Even more disgusting is how laws are enforced, in Denver, Co, they have a concealed weapons ban, which conflicts with the state that allows for concealed weapons, the state has sued the city over it, yet Denver enforces this city law. The city also has legalized possession of less than an ounce of marijuana, and passed a second law that makes marijuana the lowest priority of law enforcement, yet arrests for possession are up, how can that be? The denver police enforce the State law, banning it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roger Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 11:28 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] We Need To Solve The Oil Crisis--Now I was going to say the same. Not sure on how to do it, but it's going to take a full-fledged attitude change from everyone - not more legislation. How do you convince an entire nation that, for the good of the country and oneself, not to buy the Hummer, to car-pool, stop eating GM foods, and avoid high-fructose corn syrup. The argument continues to school shootings, drugs, etc. When did these things become OK? More laws don't fix a damn thing - look at the 'War on Drugs' or Washington DC where handgun ownership is illegal and the crime is the worst in the country. Chip Mefford wrote: Brian Schneider wrote: Hello, Just a comment, why don't we in the US do something else that was done in the 70's oil crisis...drop the speed limit back to 55. There were a *lot* of problems with this. I'm not going to go into it all, in fact, I'm barely going to scratch the surface. But essentially, the nationwide 55mph speed limit was about as popular as prohibition, and caused many of the same problems. In interest of full disclosure, when ever I hear 'There ought to be a law, I duck. We have plenty of laws. a few orders of magnitude too many I'd say. In fact, I'd point to the current state of affairs as my primary exhibit in the 'laws don't fix anything' presentation. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080424/eda842c3/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] We Need To Solve The Oil Crisis--Now
well, if the ice age is coming, then maybe we all need hummers and big trucks to create more green house gasses ;) 55 is fine for the densely populate tracts of america (the coasts), but its going to be a rea hard sell in the vast expanses of the middle of the country. The federal government is good at the one size fits most things, but that never fits all, and while 55 may actually save fuel and reduce polution, you try selling that on i-80 when you're driving a 1000 miles through the middle of no-where. again, I say this is a state issue, not federal, maybe we cut all the 75mph zones to 65, and 65 to 55, but 55 across the board probably won't fly. Not that I'm worried it would, its political suicide to try pass it again, and we all know that politicians don't do anything that would jeopardize thier careers. Instead, maybe what we ought to do is make things like cat-back exhaust system and cold air intake systems that make pretty much any vehicle get another 2-4 mpg mandatory. The nice thing about that is that it would only affect the prices of new cars, which are not mandatory purchases anyway, and will only affect those that choose to buy them. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Chris Burck Sent: Thu 4/24/2008 6:40 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] We Need To Solve The Oil Crisis--Now laws definitely do matter. just because there are a lot of stupid laws, that's no reason to discourage or oppose sensible ones. there's nothing wrong with a 55mph speed limit. did people ignore it? sure. did most people ignore it? not a chance. people violate the speed limit more now than ever. On 4/24/08, Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting conversation. We all agree that the one thing that needs to happen is a change in attitude of people about fuel use or fuel conservation. I am afraid that we are living in a country that has had it too easy too long and no one is going to change anything (or should I say most) until they are forced to. I know that not many people obey the speed limit and changing it would not make much of a difference, I will concede that fact, but will they be willing to make other changes on their own without any external influence? More than likely not, most do not like the inconvenience of doing things differently. I am a public school teacher in a rural area. I see the kids attitudes about certain things and most of them are not what I would consider to be old enough to have a firm grasp on their opinions, so most of them hear things at home and that becomes what they believe. Truly it concerns me with their attitudes. They don't want anyone telling them what to do or how to do anything. They don't value education for the most part and think that their time spent in high school is a big waste of their time. I know first hand what it can be to try to get them to change on even the smallest of ideas, so when we start mentioning that they should drive smaller cars and etc, they will not be for that at all. The only thing that is going to change the mind of many people is when we feel the effects of what we are doing. Then and only then will change precipitate out and people be concerned about what they are doing. To me it is a sad commentary on our lives in this country. Most think that the only person that matters is me Brian On Apr 24, 2008, at 2:45 PM, Chip Mefford wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kirk McLoren wrote: | I am in favor of new laws - only if you recind an old one. There are so many laws now the only way you know you are breaking one is if they pinch you. | Kirk Lol! I'd say rescind at least 100 old per 1 new. Actually should 1000, so you'd counter with 10, so we could get to 100. :) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFIENUzlwL/NsEHg6sRAjwvAJ0e0cyu0I2LPDbpl25AGnfvysjvSQCgwCer oO9aIdXAlBD3Q039A2wDTN4= =ywh0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Food Rationing in America?
gee, and we're still paying farmers to leave thier feilds sit? I live in colorado, and I have freinds that bought farms solely because the government pays them to not grow. Great investment, getting paid to sit on your butt. seems to me that if the shortage was really that bad, we'd stop wasting tax dollars on this sort of thing. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of robert and benita Sent: Tue 4/22/2008 6:18 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Food Rationing in America? http://www2.nysun.com/article/74994 Food Rationing Confronts Breadbasket of the World By JOSH GERSTEIN http://www2.nysun.com/authors/Josh+Gerstein Staff Reporter of the Sun April 21, 2008 MOUNTAIN VIEW http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=Mountain+View, Calif. http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=California -- Many parts of America http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=United+States, long considered the breadbasket of the world, are now confronting a once unthinkable phenomenon: food rationing. Major retailers in New York, in areas of New England http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=New+England+States, and on the West Coast are limiting purchases of flour, rice, and cooking oil as demand outstrips supply. There are also anecdotal reports that some consumers are hoarding grain stocks. At a Costco http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=Costco+Wholesale+Corporation Warehouse in Mountain View, Calif. http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=Mountain+View+%28California%29, yesterday, shoppers grew frustrated and occasionally uttered expletives as they searched in vain for the large sacks of rice they usually buy. Where's the rice? an engineer from Palo Alto http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=Palo+Alto, Calif., Yajun Liu, said. You should be able to buy something like rice. This is ridiculous. The bustling store in the heart of Silicon Valley usually sells four or five varieties of rice to a clientele largely of Asian immigrants, but only about half a pallet of Indian-grown Basmati rice was left in stock. A 20-pound bag was selling for $15.99. You can't eat this every day. It's too heavy, a health care executive from Palo Alto, Sharad Patel, grumbled as his son loaded two sacks of the Basmati into a shopping cart. We only need one bag but I'm getting two in case a neighbor or a friend needs it, the elder man said. The Patels seemed headed for disappointment, as most Costco members were being allowed to buy only one bag. Moments earlier, a clerk dropped two sacks back on the stack after taking them from another customer who tried to exceed the one-bag cap. Due to the limited availability of rice, we are limiting rice purchases based on your prior purchasing history, a sign above the dwindling supply said. Shoppers said the limits had been in place for a few days, and that rice supplies had been spotty for a few weeks. A store manager referred questions to officials at Costco headquarters near Seattle, who did not return calls or e-mail messages yesterday. An employee at the Costco store in Queens said there were no restrictions on rice buying, but limits were being imposed on purchases of oil and flour. Internet postings attributed some of the shortage at the retail level to bakery owners who flocked to warehouse stores when the price of flour from commercial suppliers doubled. The curbs and shortages are being tracked with concern by survivalists who view the phenomenon as a harbinger of more serious trouble to come. It's sporadic. It's not every store, but it's becoming more commonplace, the editor of SurvivalBlog.com, James Rawles, said. The number of reports I've been getting from readers who have seen signs posted with limits has increased almost exponentially, I'd say in the last three to five weeks. Spiking food prices have led to riots in recent weeks in Haiti, Indonesia, and several African nations. India recently banned export of all but the highest quality rice, and Vietnam blocked the signing of a new contract for foreign rice sales. I'm surprised the Bush administration hasn't slapped export controls on wheat, Mr. Rawles said. The Asian countries are here buying every kind of wheat. Mr. Rawles said it is hard to know how much of the shortages are due to lagging supply and how much is caused by consumers hedging against future price hikes or a total lack of product. There have been so many stories about worldwide shortages that it encourages people to stock up. What most people don't realize is that supply chains have changed, so inventories are very short, Mr. Rawles, a former Army intelligence officer, said. Even if people increased their purchasing by 20%, all the store shelves would be wiped out. At the moment, large chain retailers seem more prone to shortages and limits than do smaller chains and mom-and-pop stores, perhaps because store managers at the larger
Re: [Biofuel] Message In A Bottle
They use something like that in the balitmore harbor. a smallish boat with a conveyor belt in the center and two arms that scissor horizontally across the top of the water and have conveyor type belts on them that pull the garbage toward the center belt. The boat floats on pontoons on the ouside of the conveyer and it has a bin type thing at the back of it. The garbage is escorted by the arms toward the central belt, which picks it up and dumps it into the bin, the water just falls through the belt. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Jason Mier Sent: Sat 4/19/2008 7:29 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Message In A Bottle nets can only pick up so much. i have an idea but it sounds kind of outlandish. i am imagining a fleet of barges filtering the water up like a giant shop-vac and separating the junk out. thats like a 3500 mile array, staggered at ~7 miles (from equator to 50N assuming ~70 miles per degree latitude) plus the fact that there are four or five gyres that need to be cleaned up. the only real advantage a stationary barge has in a gyre would be lots and lots of sunlight to feed on. (solar engines, yeah buddy!!!) assumptions: 1) there are ~300 million tons of plastic(s) in the NPG. (the survey area was kind of small comparatively(1) and its estimated to increase by about 10x every two years(2)) 2) a seagoing barge container might carry 13000 tons(3). 3) the array consists of 500 collectors in a N-S line at ~7 mile intervals. 4) our machines accumulate no water. results: with one barge per collector, it would take 40 trips to each barge clean up the NPG, and thats only if the influx of trash comes to a dead stop... yesterday. aint gonna happen with these governments... probably take a private company to do it. (1) http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Ocean/Moore-Trashed-PacificNov03.htm (2) http://www.satyamag.com/apr07/moore.html (3) http://www.mobymarine.com/CONNORGralCharac.pdf Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:13:35 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Message In A Bottle 3.5 million tons of plastic ? Pyrolytic distillation should yield 300 million gallons. Is that enough to attract reclaiming? Kirk Keith Addison wrote: http://www.gtweekly.com/good-times/message-in-a-bottle-1 Message In A Bottle Written by Amanda Martinez Wednesday, 19 March 2008 Trash twice the size of the continental United States is collecting in the North Pacific, but here's the kicker: most of it is made to last forever. _ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_getintouch_042008 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Message In A Bottle
these things http://www.trashskimmer.com/balt.htm From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Steve Moran Sent: Sat 4/19/2008 9:38 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org; sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Message In A Bottle They use something like that in the balitmore harbor. a smallish boat with a conveyor belt in the center and two arms that scissor horizontally across the top of the water and have conveyor type belts on them that pull the garbage toward the center belt. The boat floats on pontoons on the ouside of the conveyer and it has a bin type thing at the back of it. The garbage is escorted by the arms toward the central belt, which picks it up and dumps it into the bin, the water just falls through the belt. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Jason Mier Sent: Sat 4/19/2008 7:29 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Message In A Bottle nets can only pick up so much. i have an idea but it sounds kind of outlandish. i am imagining a fleet of barges filtering the water up like a giant shop-vac and separating the junk out. thats like a 3500 mile array, staggered at ~7 miles (from equator to 50N assuming ~70 miles per degree latitude) plus the fact that there are four or five gyres that need to be cleaned up. the only real advantage a stationary barge has in a gyre would be lots and lots of sunlight to feed on. (solar engines, yeah buddy!!!) assumptions: 1) there are ~300 million tons of plastic(s) in the NPG. (the survey area was kind of small comparatively(1) and its estimated to increase by about 10x every two years(2)) 2) a seagoing barge container might carry 13000 tons(3). 3) the array consists of 500 collectors in a N-S line at ~7 mile intervals. 4) our machines accumulate no water. results: with one barge per collector, it would take 40 trips to each barge clean up the NPG, and thats only if the influx of trash comes to a dead stop... yesterday. aint gonna happen with these governments... probably take a private company to do it. (1) http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Ocean/Moore-Trashed-PacificNov03.htm (2) http://www.satyamag.com/apr07/moore.html (3) http://www.mobymarine.com/CONNORGralCharac.pdf Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:13:35 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Message In A Bottle 3.5 million tons of plastic ? Pyrolytic distillation should yield 300 million gallons. Is that enough to attract reclaiming? Kirk Keith Addison wrote: http://www.gtweekly.com/good-times/message-in-a-bottle-1 Message In A Bottle Written by Amanda Martinez Wednesday, 19 March 2008 Trash twice the size of the continental United States is collecting in the North Pacific, but here's the kicker: most of it is made to last forever. _ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_getintouch_042008 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
