Re: [Biofuel] NaOH vs. KOH - Start to end
: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 23.12.2005 ã. Vaklin Hristov CAR DIAGNOSE Ltd. P.O. Box 79 3320 Kozloduy Bulgaria ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] NaOH vs. KOH - Start to end
Hi At 21:58 25.12.05, you wrote: Vaklin, For now I'm living in the jungle, my friend. I'm sure the day when I'll take care about the environment will come soon, but when, nobody knows. I really hope I didn't hear that right. Just what do you propose to do with the glyc cocktail after it settles out of the reaction? Dump it and then the stormwater runoff take it downstream? Wouldn't that be in someone else's drinking water? BTW explain me please (for a future use) if I do my batches with KOH and live in white country White country? Only whities have access to KOH? I really hope I didn't hear that right either I can buy KOH in any quantity. Not this is the goal. White country is a country like USA, Canada, EU etc. where citizens behavior is adequate and salary is adequate too. In these countries is normal to use more environment suitable components and take care about waste products. In another countries called countries from third world important is survive ... how I can save some money. Exactly difference between NaOH and KOH for 1m3 fresh oil is 7.14kg vs. 10kg. In money this means, 5BGN vs. 25BGN. This math doesn't quite fit. A 100% compliment of NaOH per liter of oil costs 5 monetary units and an amount of KOH that performs the same function costs 400% more? Double perhaps (1.4 x 1.0 plus a markup for inventory of a perhaps less widely used status). Again try to explain: 1kg NaOH - 0.70 units 1kg KOH - 2.5 units 2.5 / 0.7 = 3.57 times in price for each kg. 3.57 x 1.4 = 4.998 times in total cost for 100% KOH 4.998 + 10% = 5.4978 times in total cost for 90% KOH. Here KOH is 91-92 % purity. You need to search out your sources whenever and wherever possible, especially if your monetary resources are tight. KOH is a market standard almost anywhere. Divide to 1000 liter I get 0,02 BGN extra cost per liter or about 1.5% up in final price. To cover this extra charge I should have: 1. Fast reaction time. Electricity costs money and no small money. Reaction times are equal. So no profit from here... or 2. Somebody who are ready to pay for waste products. I don't know exactly where is the difference between waste products from sodium and potassium. The recovered NaOH is in the form of sodium phosphate, or worse yet, sodium sulfate. Realistically, neither have any retrievable value. The recovered KOH would be in the form of potassium phosphate, or at worst, potassium sulfate. The former is a fertilizer. How much it's worth per pound is determined by your own marketplace. As for any perception of increased cost by including FFA using phosphoric acid? You have to ask yourself just what price you're already paying for petroleum fuel. If a $20.00 expense can net a 25 gallon savings...? I'll let you do the math. Petroleum diesel here is 1.60-170 BGN for small quantities and -10, 14% for bulk. So, if my is with total cost without the profit up from 1.00-1.05 BGN no reason to do them at all. Again nature and environment are out from calculation. Ideas how to reach something from these points? Yes. A cradle-to-grave cost/benefit analysis using the best prices that can be found from your markets.. Todd Swearingen -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 23.12.2005 _. Vaklin Hristov CAR DIAGNOSE Ltd. P.O. Box 79 3320 Kozloduy Bulgaria ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] NaOH vs. KOH - Start to end
For now I'm living in the jungle, my friend. I'm sure the day when I'll take care about the environment will come soon, but when, nobody knows. BTW explain me please (for a future use) if I do my batches with KOH and live in white country how I can save some money. Exactly difference between NaOH and KOH for 1m3 fresh oil is 7.14kg vs. 10kg. In money this means, 5BGN vs. 25BGN. Divide to 1000 liter I get 0,02 BGN extra cost per liter or about 1.5% up in final price. To cover this extra charge I should have: 1. Fast reaction time. Electricity costs money and no small money. or 2. Somebody who are ready to pay for waste products. I don't know exactly where is the difference between waste products from sodium and potassium. Ideas how to reach something from these points? At 06:03 25.12.05, you wrote: You've still got to find end uses for your co-/waste-products. Sodium generates an environmental cost. Potassium generates a monetary and environmental savings. You might care to see how much the savings in fertilizer offsets the higher cost of the catalyst before you make a final decision. Todd Swearingen Vaklin Hristov wrote: Hi! Difference is only in total cost of the product. I'll try to save every cent because the price of biodiesel produced here is very close to bulk price of dynodiesel. I mean biodiesel produced from fresh not refined vegetable oils. So, my decision is NaOH. At 19:06 24.12.05, you wrote: John, Later in the entire process am I missing something that would make using KOH more complicated? KOH makes nothing more complicated. Quite the opposite. See other post on this thread. Todd Swearingen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everyone seems to use more NaOh in the process. At this point I plan on using KOH even though I must use more. I can purchase 90% KOH for .725/lb and NaOH beads for 51/lb. The time savings and ease in mixing KOH is worth the extra cost. Later in the entire process am I missing something that would make using KOH more complicated? I would be left with Pot Ash. Is there more value to glycerine than pot ash? I have used NaOH so far, but want to switch when my account is finalized. I have been reading the archives but 58,000 messages may take a while to get through. Currently designing my system to do 175 gallons of WVO per batch, 35 gallons Methanol ($2.89 gl). I have access to good supply of stainless cone bottom tank for all tanks. John Frey ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 23.12.2005 ã. Vaklin Hristov CAR DIAGNOSE Ltd. P.O. Box 79 3320 Kozloduy Bulgaria ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 23.12.2005 _. Vaklin Hristov CAR DIAGNOSE Ltd. P.O. Box 79 3320 Kozloduy Bulgaria ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com
Re: [Biofuel] NaOH vs. KOH - Start to end
Hi! At 18:29 24.12.05, you wrote: Hello Vaklin My personal opinion, not sure I'm right or not... + KOH dissolves in seconds in CH3OH Some of it does, but it takes about 10 minutes or more to dissolve what you'd use to make a batch. o The process has not faster than one with NaOH No, and also it's not slower. - KOH here is 3 times expensive than NaOH Are you sure? People have said such things but when they had a better look they usually managed to get it for about the same unit price (though you use more), including at least one person in East Europe. Will give prices in BGN (native currency $1.64 = 1BGN) NaOH 0.70 BGN without VAT; KOH 2.50 BGN without VAT. Have found the place where can buy for approx 1.50 BGN, but should drive 300km. - You should use approximately 1.5 times (in grams) more KOH Why give only an approximate figure for how much catalyst to use? If it's not accurate it's useless, or worse. You need to use 1.4 times as much (1.4025), and you also have to adjust it for purity. For accurate information please see: More about lye http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye I have wrote approximately. Exactly the value is as you said. For 250 ml fresh rape oil I have used 2.5g KOH or 1.78 gram NaOH. With these values I have got excellent esterification in 1 hour and 30 minutes. Every time I'm awaiting 30 minutes more. Temperature is constant, 58 degrees Celsius. - Washing after KOH is more difficult. For me 4-5 washes vs. 3. I think most people have the opposite experience, easier washes. Maybe .. Probably they use better water than mine from kitchen pipe. - KOH accepts very faster H2O from the air. From this comes more expensive holding. We used NaOH for years and switched to KOH more than two years ago, we've used a lot of it since then, we live in a humid place and we haven't seen any difference in absorption. And you know every day real water contents? I'm sure KOH is useable too... - I have expected 100% esterification with KOH, but unfortunately I have got the same ester/glycerin ratio as with NaOH. Conversion never reaches 100% completion. I know, but have read some documents where in closed reactor with 70 degrees Celsius and KOH they has reached 100%. So KOH doesn't cover my hopes. But you seem to have hoped for some odd things. No, just better self value for the product. All this I get from few 200 ml test batches from fresh rape oil. Keep going, good luck. Best Keith Thank you. At 04:12 24.12.05, you wrote: Everyone seems to use more NaOh in the process. At this point I plan on using KOH even though I must use more. I can purchase 90% KOH for .725/lb and NaOH beads for 51/lb. The time savings and ease in mixing KOH is worth the extra cost. Later in the entire process am I missing something that would make using KOH more complicated? I would be left with Pot Ash. Is there more value to glycerine than pot ash? I have used NaOH so far, but want to switch when my account is finalized. I have been reading the archives but 58,000 messages may take a while to get through. Currently designing my system to do 175 gallons of WVO per batch, 35 gallons Methanol ($2.89 gl). I have access to good supply of stainless cone bottom tank for all tanks. John Frey ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 23.12.2005 ã. Vaklin Hristov CAR DIAGNOSE Ltd. P.O. Box 79 3320 Kozloduy Bulgaria ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] NaOH vs. KOH - Start to end
Hi! Difference is only in total cost of the product. I'll try to save every cent because the price of biodiesel produced here is very close to bulk price of dynodiesel. I mean biodiesel produced from fresh not refined vegetable oils. So, my decision is NaOH. At 19:06 24.12.05, you wrote: John, Later in the entire process am I missing something that would make using KOH more complicated? KOH makes nothing more complicated. Quite the opposite. See other post on this thread. Todd Swearingen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everyone seems to use more NaOh in the process. At this point I plan on using KOH even though I must use more. I can purchase 90% KOH for .725/lb and NaOH beads for 51/lb. The time savings and ease in mixing KOH is worth the extra cost. Later in the entire process am I missing something that would make using KOH more complicated? I would be left with Pot Ash. Is there more value to glycerine than pot ash? I have used NaOH so far, but want to switch when my account is finalized. I have been reading the archives but 58,000 messages may take a while to get through. Currently designing my system to do 175 gallons of WVO per batch, 35 gallons Methanol ($2.89 gl). I have access to good supply of stainless cone bottom tank for all tanks. John Frey ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 23.12.2005 ã. Vaklin Hristov CAR DIAGNOSE Ltd. P.O. Box 79 3320 Kozloduy Bulgaria ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] two stage proccess... doubts
Hi At 16:48 19.12.2005 'ã.', you wrote: Hi Vakin; Thanks for your input. When you say 200 ml RO do you mean you wash a 1 liter test batch with 200 ml of reverse osmosis water? No. I mean 200 ml methil ester washed with 56 ml pure water. After heating for couple of minutes up to 55 deg. C it looks just fine. BTW 95 deg. C is pretty warm it may dry the fuel quicker but there are some notes on J2F that indicate biodiesel can oxidize. This is only to test quantity of water inside the BD. Really I noticed well done drying is possible with 55-60 deg C (the same temperature used by me for the main process. It may be accelerated at that temperature unless you use CO2 or N2 blanket to keep air away. Also it takes more energy to heat the fuel that much. Just a thought. Also I heard one can use an automotive air conditioner compressor as a vacuum pump. Don't know what level of vacuum it can produce but it is worth a try if the price is right. These pumps are not expensive in the US, but here they are about $500. Oil inside the pump is extremely water sensitive. 15 or 25 micron of vacuum isn't necessary for this job. Better is to use simple vacuum pump for old dentist chair for example. Or few years before (now I don't know) was wide available in eBay vacuum pumps motorized by compressed air. Joe Vaklin Hristov wrote: Hi! Some time before (I mean early '80) many automotive enthusiast add a water injector to their carburetors. Bit better mileage with the same power. Return line for diesel engines has a enough quantity of fuel to do stir washing of your BD. Important is to not get fresh water into the pump! This can be done with some modernization of your fuel tank. BTW my test batches (200 ml RO) with NaOH as catalyst every time looks bit waterized after third stir wash and this stay at least three days. Maybe more but I have gave the batch for physical analysis. With KOH water goes out more rapidly. In both processes esterification is 92-93%. In monday I'll know how much water has in the batch after third wash and after 95 degrees Celsius for one hour. Will inform about results, but I think the quantity will be in ppm's. At 23:13 17.12.05, you wrote: Just an addition: In my early batches I was so curious how the BD will affect the engine I did that test-after the third wash the fuel was something like Fanta orange,with lot of water dispersed within,but I pour it in the tank.My Renault 11 was just fine.Then I heated the BD to dewater it and what I found?The MPG raised and some loss of power appeared(5-8%).The same BD with water was better fuel than without water.The mean problem is that the water does not stays dispersed!I recall in the early `80 there was a Russian invention how to mix gasoline with water by means of piezo-quartz(ultrasonic frequency)submerged in the tank,but all I can remember is only the idea!Nowadays I read somewhere someone was trying to rich the same effect by azeothrop agents. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/206 - Release Date: 16.Dec.05 CAR DIAGNOSE Ltd. P.O. Box 79 3320 Kozloduy Bulgaria Phone: +359887000332 FAX: +35997382758 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release Date: 19.12.2005 ã. Vaklin Hristov CAR DIAGNOSE Ltd. P.O. Box 79 3320 Kozloduy Bulgaria ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Re: [Biofuel] two stage proccess... doubts
Again here main problem is water. Compressors for R134a are lubricated with ester oil and the ester oil loses lubricant feature very shortly in high humidity. As Rumen said, the best way is vacuum pump from any diesel engine. At 04:13 20.12.05, you wrote: a/c compressors or refrigerator compressors will produce enough vacuum but they are also designed to allow thier crankase oil to circulate through the system. if it is not captured and returned they don't run for very long -- Original message -- From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Vakin; Thanks for your input. When you say 200 ml RO do you mean you wash a 1 liter test batch with 200 ml of reverse osmosis water? BTW 95 deg. C is pretty warm it may dry the fuel quicker but there are some notes on J2F that indicate biodiesel can oxidize. It may be accelerated at that temperature unless you use CO2 or N2 blanket to keep air away. Also it takes more energy to heat the fuel that much. Just a thought. Also I heard one can use an automotive air conditioner compressor as a vacuum pump. Don't know what level of vacuum it can produce but it is worth a try if the price is right. Joe Vaklin Hristov wrote: Hi! Some time before (I mean early '80) many automotive enthusiast add a water injector to their carburetors. Bit better mileage with the same power. Return line for diesel engines has a enough quantity of fuel to do stir washing of your BD. Important is to not get fresh water into the pump! This can be done with some modernization of your fuel tank. BTW my test batches (200 ml RO) with NaOH as catalyst every time looks bit waterized after third stir wash and this stay at least three days. Maybe more but I have gave the batch for physical analysis. With KOH water goes out more rapidly. In both processes esterification is 92-93%. In monday I'll know how much water has in the batch after third wash and after 95 degrees Celsius for one hour. Will inform about results, but I think the quantity will be in ppm's. At 23:13 17.12.05, you wrote: Just an addition: In my early batches I was so curious how the BD will affect the engine I did that test-after the third wash the fuel was something like Fanta orange,with lot of water dispersed within,but I pour it in the tank.My Renault 11 was just fine.Then I heated the BD to dewater it and what I found?The MPG raised and some loss of power appeared(5-8%).The same BD with water was better fuel than without water.The mean problem is that the water does not stays dispersed!I recall in the early `80 there was a Russian invention how to mix gasoline with water by means of piezo-quartz(ultrasonic frequency)submerged in the tank,but all I can remember is only the idea!Nowadays I read somewhere someone was trying to rich the same effect by azeothrop agents. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/206 - Release Date: 16.Dec.05 CAR DIAGNOSE Ltd. P.O. Box 79 3320 Kozloduy Bulgaria Phone: +359887000332 FAX: +35997382758 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] two stage proccess... doubts Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:49:09 + Content-Type: Multipart/mixed; boundary=NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_25556_1135044792_1 Hi Vakin; Thanks for your input. When you say 200 ml RO do you mean you wash a 1 liter test batch with 200 ml of reverse osmosis water? BTW 95 deg. C is pretty warm it may dry the fuel quicker but there are some notes on J2F that indicate biodiesel can oxidize. It may be accelerated at that temperature unless you use CO2 or N2 blanket to keep air away. Also it takes more energy to heat the fuel that much. Just a thought. Also I heard one can use an automotive air conditioner compressor as a vacuum pump. Don't know what level of vacuum it can produce but it is worth a try if the price is right. Joe Vaklin
Re: [Biofuel] two stage proccess... doubts
Hi! Some time before (I mean early '80) many automotive enthusiast add a water injector to their carburetors. Bit better mileage with the same power. Return line for diesel engines has a enough quantity of fuel to do stir washing of your BD. Important is to not get fresh water into the pump! This can be done with some modernization of your fuel tank. BTW my test batches (200 ml RO) with NaOH as catalyst every time looks bit waterized after third stir wash and this stay at least three days. Maybe more but I have gave the batch for physical analysis. With KOH water goes out more rapidly. In both processes esterification is 92-93%. In monday I'll know how much water has in the batch after third wash and after 95 degrees Celsius for one hour. Will inform about results, but I think the quantity will be in ppm's. At 23:13 17.12.05, you wrote: Just an addition: In my early batches I was so curious how the BD will affect the engine I did that test-after the third wash the fuel was something like Fanta orange,with lot of water dispersed within,but I pour it in the tank.My Renault 11 was just fine.Then I heated the BD to dewater it and what I found?The MPG raised and some loss of power appeared(5-8%).The same BD with water was better fuel than without water.The mean problem is that the water does not stays dispersed!I recall in the early `80 there was a Russian invention how to mix gasoline with water by means of piezo-quartz(ultrasonic frequency)submerged in the tank,but all I can remember is only the idea!Nowadays I read somewhere someone was trying to rich the same effect by azeothrop agents. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/206 - Release Date: 16.Dec.05 CAR DIAGNOSE Ltd. P.O. Box 79 3320 Kozloduy Bulgaria Phone: +359887000332 FAX: +35997382758 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
