[biofuel] Re: The US Natural Gas crises, a public rehearsal of the coming oil crises.
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I started to write an article with work name the scam artists at work. Thought it would create interesting discussion topics for the list and this is one of them. Today, June 2003, it is suddenly obvious that US find itself in an emerging Natural Gas crisis. Only a few month ago, I had discussions with people who still believed that it was an abundance of Natural Gas and that this was the way forward. When I pointed to the R/P values (Reserves/Production) for Natural Gas and the fact that they are lower than for oil, I was met with disbelief. The last couple of month the situation has changed. The US Victory over Iraq and the stabilizing of oil prices, have done nothing for the spiraling Natural Gas prices. Greenspan and a number of other economists had to announce the presence of an energy demand crisis. Already now, it is not enough Natural Gas in US for the usage and the R/P values are considerable less than 10 years. Possible actions are, - Try to rise the import from Canada and Mexico. It is already large and the transport systems need upgrades. It is also a short term solution that need follow up with other possibilities. - Expand transport and terminal capacities for importation. - Rapidly expand production of City Gas (Hydrogen) from coal. Not being a signature of Kyoto will be a positive in this scenario. Wonder if somebody knew that in beforehand? - Rapidly open up earlier reserved areas for exploration. Have we heard that before? How could so many opt for Natural Gas solutions and get into the current situation? The R/P values for Natural Gas has been recorded for quite a while, the situation cannot be surprising. Was it some influence from the Hydrogen hype? It has been sold as a solution where the next step would be the Hydrogen economy, with an abundance of renewable energy from water. How many know that they are manipulated into a Coal economy? Nothing is said about this most plausible course of remedy for the problem. A typical example of the scam artists at work. It is hard to tell if the new situation is created by design or ignorance. But it is a little bit suspicious that an ignorant foreigner like me has been aware of the situation for quite a while and the US experts are taken by surprise. Maybe the serious US scientists, at least the ones I know of, also are victims of the scam artists at work. Hakan Hakan, I believe it is a combination of ignorance and misinformation being spread around. The 'Experts' all travel in their own small circles in lofty places, and have lost touch with the REAL world. They work within the confines of their elite Group, and simply recycle the same old and disproven ideas around and around. They don't give any credible thought to those who are outside of their Elite Group. The concept of too much inbreeding comes to mind, where any 'impure' thoughts are disallowed. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: OT Personal
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you for the happy news, it is nice to know we are not the only ones. Bright Blessings, Kim We'll be celebrating 25 years of marriage during the last weekend in June, and yes, we still like each other! LOL Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/BVVfoB/hP.FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: The MLM effect Was: Here's the proof: was, I think Bush pressed the button
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been looking for a way. But every which way seems to begin by doing some immoral, unethical ... or as is the case most of the time, illegal. Will not quit still looking. Anybody wanna point the way?? I'm all ears. Curtis http://www.freestateproject.org/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/BVVfoB/hP.FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: (Fwd) biodiesel for public transportation vs. CNG
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thought this might be of interest (forwarded from Alternate Energy list). Darryl McMahon All I can offer is sympathy and confirm that it is NOT a unique situation. I've been rattling cages and taking names for a while now, and perhaps to some avail. Someone 'discreetly' entered my office and attempted an unauthorized access to my computer and some of my files. Under the presumption that I am monitored, I won't disclose how I became aware of the attempted intrusion, but I am fairly confident that it was unfruitful. (and Professional) I won't even speculate as to who the 'perp' may have been associated with. Later, Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save Smiley. Help put Messenger back in the office. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4PqtEC/anyFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: anhydrogenous alcohol
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, jerry brandon fairchild [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All right maybe I need to go further in detail by what i meant. when less than 200 proof alcohol is denatured with gasoline, I read that the alcohol and gas mix but the water seperates and sinks to the bottom. What I was thinking was why not after the water has seperated just drain it off and seal it to prevent moisture absorbtion. The other thing is I am still new at this so, when you use the abreviations such as the bd reaction, I have no idea what you're refering to if you would explain that too thanks brandon Hi Brandon, What you read was in error. When less than 200 proof Alcohol is denatured with Gasoline, it is the water and Gasoline that mix, and the Alcohol that separates out and sinks to the bottom. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Two sides of one coin Was: Iraq War Poll and CoffeeCup News
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This whole mess, I believe, is carefully orchestrated to give the impression that there are ONLY these two choices in life That's like arguing we should have a Toyota minivan no, we ought to buy a Camry No, a minivan . NO, a Camry! But who cares?? TOYOTA still makes a sale.Corporate Slave or Government Slave. A slave is still a SLAVE. Curtis Curtis, You have summed up the problem very clearly. Freedom is NOT on the Agenda. (Sarcasm) Aren't we glad to have elections, so we can choose our next Masters? Last time 'The People' chose a Government Master. This time they chose a Corporate Master, with the Government as Head Slave Keeper. Aren't we all grateful for 'Bread and Circuses'? (Foodstamps and Cable TV) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: anhydrogenous alcohol
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 05:08 pm, telemachus002 wrote: forgive my ignorance but I see all these explanations of fancy ways to remove the last bit of water from alcohol to attain 200 proof such as using vacuums, corn grits and such. but if the water seperates from a gasoline alcohol mixture and sink to the bottom. Not what happens, apparently - adding hydrous ethanol to gasoline doesn't separate the water content from the ethanol, it separates the hydrous ethanol from the gasoline. Though... I just had a message from a former list member saying he mixed 190-proof ethanol (95% - about the highest you can get with distillation) 50-50 with gasoline, it didn't separate in the sample, and now he's using it in his motor. Anyway, haven't tried it, but by all accounts (or all other accounts) you need 200-proof ethanol to mix it with gasoline, and you also need 200-proof to make ethyl esters biodiesel (use 3A zeolite molecular sieve), but if you want to burn neat ethanol, no gasoline, 160- proof will do. Best Keith couldn't you just wait till it seperates drain the gas/alcohol from the top or drain the water out of the bottom seal it to prevent moisture absorption and be done with it? brandon My personal experience tells me that reality is somewhere in amongst these various experiences. Gasoline will manage to absorb a small percentage of water, though water is generally considered to be not compatable with Gasoline. Anhydrous Ethanol will mix readily with Gasoline, to any percentage. Gasoline will NOT absord both at the same time. Surplus water in a Gasoline/Ethanol/Water mixture will result in the Gasoline's ability to absorb and hold a bit of Water to be overcome, with the water displacing a bit of the Ethanol, and the Ethanol is what will be displaced and settled out. I'm not certain what percentage of water Gasoline can absorb, (1 or 2% ?)but I suspect it is a variable amount dependant on temperature. If mixing Hydrous Ethanol at 10% rate, even a fairly 'wet' 180 proof (90%) would only be 1% water in the Gasoline/ Ethanol mixture, and should stay in suspension. Several years ago, my personal practice in winter-time, was to leave water contaminated Gasoline outside to freeze, then strain the ice out with a screened funnel. I no longer do this, as I always use 10% Ethanol, and a small amount of water simply isn't a problem any more. I have an interesting job prospect coming up soon. I'll post some pics to Keith if water in the fuel should become a problem. I'll let your curiousity build until then. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save Smiley. Help put Messenger back in the office. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4PqtEC/anyFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Offensive Interference
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was joking, hence the wink. I really don't think my taxes going up will touch you personally one way or another, but there is the butterfly effect. Steve Spence I just finished writing out the Checks for my Federal and State Income Taxes, so please forgive me if I have trouble fully appreciating the humor at this time. I don't even want to contemplate what possibilties/variations of the Butterfly effect I may have just financed. ;-) Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think that he can, because it is freedom of speech. Greg H. Hi Greg, I'm not going to spend a lot of time on the topic, butsince when has the Constitution and lack of legal authority been a hindrance to Tyrants? As long as the Police Chief will send men with guns to enforce his 'Law', and a local Magistrate will impose sanctions against offenders, the Constitution is irrelevant. Reality Check! Motie - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 04:24 Subject: Re: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum A town near me in NJ has a mayor who is anti war. He has outlawed yellow ribbons on peoples front lawns. The news says he's currently in hiding. Guess who is not going to get reelected . Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He used town resources to enforce a unconstitutional law based on personal opinion? He is going to get his ass in a sling then. I would be real surprised if he didn't end up in court, for violation of constitutional rights. Greg H. Hi Greg, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to happen, or bet more than a token amount on a Just outcome. While it is openly obvious that the Mayor's activities were/are illegal, what are the odds that anyone will complain about it? You or I can't complain, as we have no Legal Standing as Damgaed Parties. If an actual Damaged Party were to come forth, numerous actions can/will be taken to suppress them. Our modern Society is so overloaded with onerous regulations, that few can comply with all of them at all times. Most violations are overlooked, when committed by most people. Any attempt to seek Legal Justice against this unauthorized Usurpation of Authority will result in every onerous regulation being enforced against the Complainant. Most people will find it easier to simply accept the illegal removal of their Yellow Ribbons. This, in effect, sets the Precedent for future unauthorized Usurpations, and future misinformed/ignorant potential Jurors mistakenly thinking that the Usurpations are within the Legal Authority of the Mayor in case such a Case should ever go to Trial. Common Knowledge is declining in actual knowledge! Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: National address in just a few moments
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If that's what you think, you missed everything. I feel bad for you. May George W. Bush and all his evil ilk roast in hell forever for this. Fire the ovens up on fossil-fuels and let them think about that for eternity. Keith Keith, I read a story by Mark Twain that seems to be appropriate for this time and place. Motie The War Prayer by Mark Twain It was a time of great and exalting excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and sputtering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spreads of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory which stirred the deepest deeps of their hearts and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country and invoked the God of Battles, beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpouring of fervid eloquence which moved every listener. It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast a doubt upon its righteousness straightway got such a stern and angry warning that for their personal safety's sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more in that way. Sunday morning came-next day the battalions would leave for the front; the church was filled; the volunteers were there, their faces alight with material dreams-visions of a stern advance, the gathering momentum, the rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender!-then home from the war, bronzed heros, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory! With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the field of honor, there to win for the flag or, failing, die the noblest of noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation -- God the all-terrible! Thou who ordainest, Thunder thy clarion and lightning thy sword! Then came the long prayer. None could remember the like of it for passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its supplication was that an ever--merciful and benignant Father of us all would watch over our noble young soldiers and aid, comfort, and encourage them in their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident, invincible in the bloody onset; help them to crush the foe, grant to them and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory - An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following him and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher's side and stood there, waiting. With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal,Bless our arms, grant us the victory, O Lord our God, Father and Protector of our land and flag! The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside -- which the startled minister did -- and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said I come from the Throne-bearing a message from Almighty God! The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd and grant it if such shall be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import-that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of-except he pause and think. God's servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two- one uttered, the other not. Both have reached the ear
[biofuel] Re: PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS IN IRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Andrew John's almost certainly right. Rednecks (is that an abusive term or not? - I dunno) seem to be generally intolerant of other views than their own and inclined to be noisy and chauvinistic about it. A bit like this: Which Side Of The Media Is Inclusive? - Conservative Media Don't Want To Hear From The 'Other Guy' http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/7355 So their opinions here might be disproportionate to their numbers. Best Keith Hi Keith, I am severely pressed for time, and can't address as many issues as I'd like. I will address the term 'Redneck' from my personal perspective. Other views may vary. Many(most?) times the term is used, it is meant to be disparaging, by the ignorant. A 'Redneck' is the ultimate representative of 'Bottom-up' policies. He is independant and separate from influences of 'authorities'. He finds his own solutions to his own problems, using his own resources. (sometimes in conflict with those who would forcibly impose their solutions on him, at his expense) A Redneck does not usually try to impose his views on others, and is fairly intolerant of those who would attempt to impose their views on him. Attempted reasonable persuasion is usually acceptable, but blatant use of force will be resisted.(It is the use of force that is resisted, not necessarily the idea that is attempted to be forced) If you don't care for the color of the window trim on my house, you may be successful in arguing your point with me, that it would beautify the neighborhood for everyone to have matching colors. (Especially if you were to offer to pay for the paint!) Threatening to throw me in jail, repainting my house against my will and Billing me for the costs, (garnishing my paycheck) will not make you be my 'Friend for life'!(And may prompt a bit of 're-painting' when I get out of jail) It's not your idea that a Redneck may oppose, it is the threatened use of force to implement your idea, regardless of his thoughts and/or feelings that gets ignorant people in trouble when dealing with 'Rednecks'. Most of them are quite reasonable people, when you quit trying to force them into unquestioningly complying with arbitrary rules without supporting reasonings. Proud Redneck, Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Hydrogen from trash
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll interpose a few comments. It's easier that way when dealing with a long message. Harvesting of Methane from landfills (trash dumps) is already in practice. Most assuredly, we can all do better than that, but it's good that it's in place. I think there are a lot of challenging issues with respect to changing how we view trash and how we should see its potentialities rather than it as waste. My initial perception is as an Energy Resource that is NOT being utilized. It can also be viewed as a materials resource as well. How much iron/steel, glass, aluminum etc are recoverable? The Organics can be converted to Ethanol, Methanol, and the other Hydrocarbons (plastics) to Synthetic Diesel fuel+major thermal energy. One that is not oft mentioned is dealing with the many challenges of trash at the source (the original producer, as well as packaging) rather than when it comes time to recycle or throw away or whatever. So, for example, with some items (carpets, etc.) you may have choices that you make at the start as to what chemicals to use which can affect your later-on choices as to whether the used item can be burned or somehow harvested for useable material or energy. I have a personal aversion to the word 'burned'. The material should either be incinerated,(with Heat recovery) or preferably, Gasified. Anyway, I agree entirely that it is of great importance to study how we can make better use of trash and reduce the amount that we simply throw into holes in the Earth. Amen! We spend time, money and Energy to 'dispose' of a viable Energy supply into a hole in the ground, then we spend more time, money and Energy to import a differnet Energy source from overseas! What is the average IQ again? On a tour of Manhattan a couple of years ago (the boat around the island) the tour guide mentioned that the Staten Island Landfill is the first or second biggest man made object on Earth in volume or mass or whatever (Great Wall being the other?). I wonder how much methane could be harvested from it. Along with all the other materials that have been 'stored' over the years. Siphon off the Methane, ferment to Ethanol the organic sugers and starches, gasify the rest to Methanol and/or Fisher/Tropsh Diesel fuel, and process the remaining 'Ore' for Iron , Aluminum, Glass etc. The only remaining disposal problem is figuring out what to do with the resulting Hole in the ground! We know that bio-diesels use trash as their fuel source but it seems like the types of trash that can be converted to hydrogen would be much more extensive than that which can produce bio-diesel, a very large percentage of trash is actually hydrogen. Actually, HydroCarbons. And the oxygen reduction should be a lot simpler process than the bio-diesel process for generating fuels. In practice, this formula can be reconfigured somewhat. Do we really need Oxygen reduction, or will Hydrogen enrichment suffice? It's a fairly simply ratio adjustment. This means that almost all our trash and waste materials can be converted to fuels to power our appliances and transportation systems. If only we could get beyond the Bureaucratic (Corporate Inspired) interference, and proceed, Full Speed Ahead! Not only can we use the trash that we normally pay other people to haul away to generate energy but we could drastically reduce the amount of waste we have to put into landfills. I've gone well into debt attempting to promote that idea, to little avail. I am currently taking a different path, much less traveled. I'm hoping to obliterate a few hurdles for the next guy. Attempting to go around them, or climb over them, has not proven to be fruitful for me. Annihilation of the existing hurdles is my current Project. Maybe someday I can get back to developing and promoting sustainable, renewable alternative Energy Supplies.(Preferably from existing sources of 'waste' or 'by-products') Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS IN IRAQ
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More over generalizations and broad assertions in order to achieve a desired spin? As an ex-military man, I agree with Steve. If the Reporter is endangering the lives of our Troops, he needs to be stopped by whatever means necessary. I would sincerely hope that prior warning to NOT transmit from the battlefield would be adequate to prevent the occurence. If not, whatever needs to be done, shall be done. If the Journalist is willing to forfeit his life and his equipment just to entertain Housewives, so be it. Perhaps a Bill for the costs expended to neutralize the threat should be sent to the Employer? Video- tape documentation would probably not be an immediate danger to our Troops and their mission. Real-time radio transmission very likely would be. Motie I'm not sure what 'Spin' I am being accused of. A danger to the safety of our Troops, is a danger to the safety of our Troops, and must be dealt with. Or is 'Live' coverage on the 6 O'Clock News more important than the safety of our Soldiers, and the success of whatever Mission they are on? I have little or no problem with Video taping for Historical/Documentary purposes. Real-time transmissions can be very detrimental to Safety and Mission objectives. Nearly every Soldiers personal goal is to get back home safely. Anything or anyone who endangers that goal will be dealt with as a deadly threat. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS IN IRAQ
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm kind of gobsmacked by the fact that not one, but two Americans on this list seem to believe that the purpose of the press and of war correspondents is to entertain housewives. Actually, their real purpose is to get as many potential buyers as possible to view the advertisements presented by the Sponsors. If it is determined that Live Stories from the War Front will attract more viewers, that is what will be shown. A comment on many things I suspect, but perhaps most immediately on the state of the press in America, where 50% of the *news* items in the mainstream press originate in a PR agency's office, and where powerful corporate interests (the type of interests rich enough not only to be PR agency clients but to own PR agencies) have eroded and corrupted the laws to take control of the media for their own ends - ends that have little in common with the purposes of your Constitution, resulting in control of the media by a mere handful of interests with their own agenda. You've got it pretty close, Keith. They'll tell whatever story they think the People need and/or want to hear, and the Facts be damned! And if they can sell some advertising in the process, it's considered to be 'good'. Bread and Circuses, Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Hydrogen from trash
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Along with all the other materials that have been 'stored' over the years. Siphon off the Methane, ferment to Ethanol the organic sugers and starches, gasify the rest to Methanol and/or Fisher/Tropsh Diesel fuel, and process the remaining 'Ore' for Iron , Aluminum, Glass etc. The only remaining disposal problem is figuring out what to do with the resulting Hole in the ground! We use the hole to bury the Oil men, and some politicians, becuase everybody knows that deep deep down politicians are good people. Ouch! Shall I send you a list of my favorite Candidates? LOL I'd prefer to render them into Biodiesel, and get some practical use out of them, but I'll settle for their status as Bubba's new Girlfriend! I better restraint myself, or I'll be 'disappeared' without a trace under one of the newly usurped 'Authorities'. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS IN IRAQ
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand what a journalists job is. I also understand that in war, if you don't protect your men, they die. If information gets out that is useful to the enemy, your men die. The life of my men is more important than a housewife in Indiana being entertained on the 6 o'clock news. If a journalist is behind enemy lines, they might end up being a casualty of war. The journalist should understand that. Steve Spence As an ex-military man, I agree with Steve. If the Reporter is endangering the lives of our Troops, he needs to be stopped by whatever means necessary. I would sincerely hope that prior warning to NOT transmit from the battlefield would be adequate to prevent the occurence. If not, whatever needs to be done, shall be done. If the Journalist is willing to forfeit his life and his equipment just to entertain Housewives, so be it. Perhaps a Bill for the costs expended to neutralize the threat should be sent to the Employer? Video-tape documentation would probably not be an immediate danger to our Troops and their mission. Real-time radio transmission very likely would be. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Just answered your own question Was:: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend to propigate.
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you ever thought that ... maybe these advantages is WHY the powers-that-be went through the trouble in swaying the public into making it illegal (Drugs being just the excuse used to making it illegal). Cause personally .. I think the same thing happened to ethanol. The powers-that-be realized that ethanol could become the DIY'ers KEY to self-reliantly making fuel for oneself hence the hiring of the ATF to make if difficult to have a homemade distilling still at home. Same idea. Curtis Curtis, How can the 2 of us think so much alike, without governmental permission? You can almost add Biodiesel to the same list, but write it lightly in pencil, so it can be erased easier. The Wool may have slipped from over a few eyes prematurely, thanks to Keith and JTF, and this list! Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Cheney is Still Paid by Pentagon Contractor
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, studio53 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's sad is that we, as Americans, don't require and/or insist on a standard of morality, ethics and character in our leaders. --- Some of us DO insist and require Morality, Ethics, and Character in our Leaders. We are routinely either ignored, or else Demonized and treated as ignorant Crackpots, or an extreme Fringe element.(Both left and right-wing) Even if we were to disregard Ethics, Morals and Character, some of us are still perceived as ?-wing Extremists for expecting Government Officials to abide by their Sworn Oath to abide by Constitutional limits on their Authority. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Hemp
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 9 Mar 2003 10:29:55 -0500, you wrote: No. It's not. But it is perhaps the highest bio-mass producer that also yields edible oil, meal.and fiber. It stands the greatest chance of succeeding economically as a biomass crop due to its multiple co- products and overall yields, if only the United States government would get out of the way. Todd Swearingen Right on. I've never seen a prominent American government official have the decency to discuss the topic much less suggest they get the hell out of the way. That has been my personal experience with development of renewable alternatives, also. Between spinelessness and greed, our Political 'leaders' have fallen under the thumb of Big Corporate lobbyists, who only want to allow development that they control, and can get subsidies for. There is a multi-faceted response under way to correct this situation. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: protest
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or would you just get a lackey with a self-esteem problem who's happy to take it out on anyone not toeing whatever line he cares to draw? Keith Hi Keith, You have distilled the problem down to it's basic essence! Unfortunately, the current system encourages, rather than discourages, arbitrary line-drawing, with little or no regard to moral, lawful or legal considerations. 'Might makes Right' seems to be the operating principal. Farther up the ladder from the 'Lackey', there is less likely to be a self-esteem problem, but it's replaced by Arrogance and financial Greed, which is an even worse motivator. The ladder goes all the way to the top of the Dungheap! Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: OT: sustainable plumbing
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I asked a plumber today what he would look for in buying a new house. He said: 1. No slab dwellings with plumbing built-in (apparently a going- strong method around here) because when the plumbing goes bad, how do you get at it to fix it? It may or may not be 'approved' where you are, but putting a Sewer Pipe underground as a conduit works for me. Flexible Plastic pipes can them be pulled out and repaired/replaced as needed. MM Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: protest
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amen! Either the Laws and Constitution apply, or they don't. If they apply, they apply to all equally. Selective, or arbitrary enforcement is a violation of the Equal Protection Clause. Arbitrary enforcement of a 'Law' made up on the spot, or a 'Law' that is void on it's face, leaves the Enforcer open to personal legal exposure. There is no Official Immunity from prosecution, for actions outside his Official Authority. Unless the Owners of the Mall stand up and claim that the action is Officially endorsed by the Mall, (leaving them open to prosecution), they have left the Enforcer hanging out to dry. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: protest
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The old people perform according to the level of their pay theory is a bit overly simplistic, a little moth worn at the edges and more consistently applied with a greater degree of accuracy to animals rather than humans (as if humans are not animals?). That same argument was presented a few years ago to justify pay raises for Congressmen. Supposedly, an increase in pay was needed to draw better qualified people to seek election. They are much better paid now, but we have many of the same incumbent incompetent faces in place. People behave more responsibly, exhibiting better judgement and greater discernment if they're paid better? That's akin to ransom logic and an exhibition of entitlement. ;-) (sarcasm) Will McDonald's Burgers suddenly become edible if we raise the base pay for the servers? Does your car run better if you pay more for the Gasoline? I've been having some Computer glitches lately. Maybe I should call my Electric provider and have them increase my rate? When did merit (a consequence of internal incentives) get taken out of the pay scale equation? (more sarcasm) When those who couldn't/wouldn't qualify for meritorious pay raises grouped together into a Collective Bargaining Unit? Todd Swearingen Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/bbvVKB/oEZFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption Was: excuse me .........
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ken B, Keith did understand this and I think that he is trying to pull a leg with you now -:). Honestly, he saw it as an opportunity to further the discussion and I am grateful for that. The links that he provided was very interesting and valuable for me, it coincided with several issues that I am interested in. I am on the limit to be able to fly a 30 sqm paraglider -:). This means 10-15 kg too much for my height. Gliders is no problems. Hakan Hakan, In trying to stay within the humorous tone, you are simply too short for your weight! All the various machines that are marketed to help people lose weight, are all on the same track and competing for the same market. You need to invent a machine to make people taller, and sell it on very late night TV in the US! LOL Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: A War Policy in Collapse
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Published on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 by the Boston Globe A War Policy in Collapse by James Carroll http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0304-01.htm Keith and I discussed this possibilty off-list a few days ago. I'm glad to see it may be coming to pass. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Or maybe just one Was: Perhaps many .. but not all
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SNIP SNIP Names get created like BioDiesel and sometimes they stick. Some names don't. Could be a television thing, commentators are always saying dumb things that catch on. If it catches on then maybe it wasn't dumb. Could be, I just think of all the goofy sports terms that people use and that concept comes to mind. Oh, sports! Well... What sport do they use Sport Utility Vehicles in? Full contact competitive Commuting? LOL Best Keith Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Or maybe just one Was: Perhaps many .. but not all
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, aegent [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Motie, I like it! Can we get it in the Xtreme games next year? And, I don't want to see any of those wimpy nerf computers or SUVs used either. td LOL! It's already on TV in several different formats, usually involving cameras mounted in Police Cars and/or Helicopters. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption Was: excuse me .........
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I get 10mpg with my 76 suburban. When the 400 died I replaced it with a new 350 as rebuilds often are unreliable. Mileage stayed the same. It's a beater but it gets me there and back. I like the fulltime 4wd. Lovely on black ice. It is a half ton chassis. So what can I do to get say 13? Kirk Kirk, It's hard to tell you where to start. A few very basic things, would be to make sure the Air Filter is clean, the Spark Plugs are in good condition, and the exhaust system is flowing properly. Make sure your tires are properly inflated, and aligned! Synthetic Gear Oil in the differentials and transfer case helps. Is your tranny in good shape, or is it slipping slightly? Lose all the unnecessary weight possible. There probably is no need to still be hauling last summer's Camping Gear around with you. These are very basic Tips, and are inexpensive. Depending on your Budget several other things can be done, such as proper gear ratios, and some Engine efficiency 'tricks'. Much of what you may want to do, will depend on your intended usage. All of the above also applies to non-SUVs too. Under-inflated tires and improper wheel alignments are very common! So is carrying a lot on non-essential 'stuff' around. If it's not needed, leave it home! Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/abvVKB/pEZFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption Was: excuse me .........
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not easy. Gear ratios are wrong etc. Might be simpler to buy something else. Been a good reliable rig. 27 years old. Kirk How badly rusted is it? How many miles on the engine? I may be able to find a new home for it, or at least most of the components. Is it a 1/2 or 3/4 ton? What is the location of the vehicle? Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jean-Leon?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = urn:schemas-microsoft- com:office:office / I just wanted to help you out here after reading your response to Curtis's (Csakima) email. What I believe he was trying to say is simply this. SUV's do not have to be the gas guzzlers that most of them are to day. That they could be engineered to be much more fuel efficient than what they are today. And he is ABSOLUTEY correct. He never said that they could be made to be more fuel efficient than smaller lighter vehicles. I did not see where Curtis ever stated that he had better knowledge of engine theory than most automotive manufacturers. But who are you to infer that he does not? The fact is they already know how to do this they just don't. It cost more money to make them more fuel efficient. Another problem that a 'Hot Rodder' can address is being able to customize the vehicle for it's intended useage. Manufacturers have no way of knowing which vehicles will actually be used for work, and off- road useage regularly, and which will be sold as Status symbols, and never be driven off pavement. The result is an attempt to compromise, which usually works out to be much less than optimum for any specific use. A 'Hot Rodder' who knows the intended useage of the vehicle can very easily adjust some of the many variables, to make any vehicle more efficient for it's intended use. Call it fine-tuning, if you like. Simply looking at the Factory-installed tires in the Dealer's Lot, will inform you that most usage is intended to be on the highways. Factory equipped, they are pretty useless for off-roading. They are also far from efficient for highway use, because the manufacturer tried to give then some capability off-road. That is quite a compromise right there. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The idea of having a second car for commuting is both a responsible and economical alternative. Tell me if you can find choices of American, clean, small and fuel efficient diesels for your purpose. Hakan Hi Hakan, The idea of having a second car may indeed be responsible and economical, but putting the idea into practice is not. My 2 youngest sons both drive 4X4 pickups exclusively. Neither of them can afford the economics of owning 2 vehicles, the mandated insurance being the real spoiler for them. One of them also owns a Subaru, which is paid for, but he had to cancel the insurance nearly a year ago, for economic reasons. It's sitting in my back yard with flat tires right now. His current plan is to give it to his Girlfriend when her current car needs replacing. Economic reality dictates that a few dollars worth of gasoline per month is much cheaper than the insurance costs to owning an additional vehicle, particularly for younger drivers with extremely high insurance rates. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jean-Leon, I agree with you, I only tried to show why we have this phenomena called SUV. It is a result of using a loophole in definitions of UV's like the Land Rover or trucks. It is a similarity but the opposite, that is done with diesel and heating oil, to put color in it to be able to have different taxes. In the SUV case it is lesser safety and fuel economy regulation. Personally I would never buy a SUV and if I needed a heavy duty terrain vehicle, I would look for a used Land Rover. If I only wanted to do off road for fun, I would probably look for an old Willy's jeep. I still drive with my thumbs outside the steering wheel so it is no problems. Those who learned off road driving without power steering knows what I mean. Hakan I know first hand what you refer to when talking about thumb position! LOL I learned to drive on a 1939 John Deere tractor with a manure loader on it, when I was 6 years old. A 'situation' I see approaching in the future, will be increased demonization of SUVs and 'light trucks', and a resulting increase in the mileage requirements for them. 'Light trucks' (Ford F150, Chevy 1500 Series), will be lightened in weight and reduced in power to attain the higher mileage. Sales will plummet, while sales of 3/4 ton and heavier trucks will rise, with a resulting even greater difference in vehicle sizes on the roads. Instead of a Geo Metro getting smashed by a 1/2 ton pickup, it will instead be smashed by a 3/4 or 1 ton pickup. Extreme escalation of this will result in bicycles and 10 wheeled trucks being our only choices left. Or will it progress all the way to RollerBlades and 18 wheelers? Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Off-topic posts?
Hi all, Perhaps we should make an attempt to reduce the number of posts complaining about off-topic posts? They are becoming a distraction to me. Motie PS: (Unprofessional attempt at humor) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Gas vs diesel Was: SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 10:1 compression ... timing ... vaporizing in the carb. That sounds like a gas (spark-ignition) engine. Curtis Yes, it is. Or used to be, until I 'tweaked' it. Now it's sort of a multi-fuel, with a preference for gasoline. Still spark ignition. It started it's life as a 350CI Chevy V8. It was OK to use, but was deficient in power, and used LOTS of gasoline. Power (Torque) is now beyond adequate, and fuel consumption is about 60% of when it was stock(and worn out!). I filled with 10%Ethanol-90%Gasoline today. No Diesel fuel, as it's too cold to get the wax through the filter, and too cold to be messing around changing filters at -20F to -30F! Diesel is also $.10/gallon higher than gasoline at this time. When the weather warms up, and the price comes down, I'll be running at least 10% Diesel fuel again. It's also too cold to ferment anything, but next summer I may try a Diesel/Ethanol mix, and see how it runs. I suspect it may run hotter than normal, without retarding the timing and leaning the Jets a bit. Cooling is NOT a problem at this time of year! LOL Later, Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Gas vs diesel Was: SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Caterpillar makes some low compression diesels for the railroad. They won't start below +40F without preheat. Low compression means less efficiency too. Don't know why they use such low compression. Kirk I don't know a lot about RailRoad Engines, but to get high efficiency, one must re-use the waste heat in the exhaust with a Turbo-charger. To be able to use a high-pressure Turbo, you have to start out with a lower Static' Ratio, then when you add the Turbo Boost pressure, you increase the Effective ratio. My last Cummins (N14E) ran 45 PSI boost in the intake manifold with an after-cooler. 525HP, 2050 ft/lb Torque 7 MPG @ 70 MPH with 95,000 lbs. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fw: IS BUSH NUTS? by William ThomasÊ
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: who gives a rats ass about the presidents of Russia, China, France and Germany? or the Bishops of Britain and the Pope? do they now set American Policy? I have never seen President Bush suggest coveting another's property, theft of their oil, and mass murder of defenseless populations? what a bunch of horseshit. For the most part, but not all, President Bush speaks for the wishes of his countryfolk, especially this member. Is william thomas nuts? sounds like it.. He has his facts all screwed up. Steve Spence Hi Steve, I didn't resppond earlier in an attempt to not contribute to the high traffic volume of the list lately. I didn't bother to read that whole article. It turned me off almost instantly when he mentioned that Bush is 'unelected'. I figured that the rest of the article was likely to be similar Drivel. I have too little time to deal with factual information, than to spend time reading misinformation. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, harley3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My concern is with a group of trucks and vans being demonized just because of their looks. Because of demonizing the standards are being changed. What is going to be changed? How many of you may remember Ford motor Company producing the F series truck with the light weight frames in the late 70's and early 80's. Because of the oil embargo back then. Ford used a new light weight frame for pickup trucks. The trucks did get better mileage, but they also start bending frames. Hauling large loads or snow plowing could bend the frame on your new truck. If you put a snow plow on your truck, you also had to buy and install frame stiffeners.So I am to trust a person or group of people that probably are not even able to check their own motor oil, to make engineering decisions due to look? Yes that sounds about right. I forgot they are the ones that decided my snow plow truck is an SUV. Harley Harley, You'll just have to do as I did, and build your own Snowplow truck. I built one for much less money than buying a new one, and then having to modify it to be usable. Older Chevies, with the 'dangerous' side-mounted fuel tanks, are available in junk yards. Carbeurated 350 CI engines are available everywhere, and many after-market parts are available to increase horsepower and efficiency. Mine will run on nearly any flammable liquid that I put in it. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: bursting point of drums?
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, CornFed (Randy) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: as far as a I know 55 gallon drums arent expected to contain pressure. That is probably why you cant find a spec for it. I would imagine that the ratings are more orientated to impact resistance and resistance to chemical activity. you could conduct a test on your own I suppose. Install a pressure guage on the side of the drum and then attach a line from an air compressor. Then -slowly- increase the pressure until you have a pressure leak. I would make a wild guess that a fill neck or soldered seam will split before you reach 20 psi. The flat rolled steel ends will more than likely be the first to fail soon after they bulge out. another way of looking at it, having bulged ends will make the drum inconvenient to use at best so that pressure reading where permanent end bulge happened could be your high end pressure rating. I've used compressed air to pressurize Oil Drums for easy transfer of the oil. At 30 PSI they start to bulge, and I wasn't brave (or foolish) enough to increase it. At 30 PSI you can flow pretty well. Please note, that this was a fairly slow pressurizing process, NOT an instantaneous increase as in an explosion. I used a spare 'bung' with a hole drilled to accept a metal tire valvestem for pressurizing it. I'd simply remove the larger 'bung' and replace it with my tire valvestem equipped one, and have an instant pressurized Oil Dispenser. Best Wishes, Be Safe, Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1511.htm Nightmares for all. Plus, for further horrors, cogitate on what such an event could conceivably mean to the freedom of the American citizens. Motie Well, first of all SHEESH (all the responses) it's just MY little observation!! (LOLOL, lots of lol!!) Seriously though, the only reason why I see that silly one-world government coming was when I saw a televised video of (I think) Colin Powell (??) testifying before the Security Council as to why Iraq should be attacked (or SOMETHING like that ... I admit I don't fully understand all the politics ... not an expert). Now think of it ... why da-hell does Powell (or Bush for that matter) need to JUSTIFY attacking another country?? Especially in front of some stupid board of directors??? Or senate panel for that matter?? I thought WE were a sovereign nation?? Capable of deciding for ourselves what we should do that's what our CONGRESS is for (I thought anyways). We, through our congress, decide and then we go-do. I thought that's what a sovereign nation is (or so I thought). Now, notice, I'm NOT arguing whether attacking Iraq is a good (or bad idea). Personally, I think it's a not-too-smart idea. But JUST LOOK AT THE PRECEDENCE BEING SET. That's my point. JUST LOOK AT THE PRECEDENCE BEING SET!! 1. Our country wants to do something. (In THIS particular example ... it HAPPENS to be attacking Iraq). 2. Congress even (I believe) ... even APPROVED that attack. 3. Do we just go ahead?? No!! Next thing you know, Powell (or whoever) is seen of TV TESTIFYING in front of some HIGHER global senate. (ie, the UN security council). Almost as if we need to ask permission. Almost as if a lower court decision needed to be brought before some kind of supreme court. WHY?? To me, that sets a VERY bad precedence. A congressional decision (it this case, war) needing approval of a higher-global-senate (the UN in this case) TO GET DONE.Isn't that rather scary?? A global senate ... almost able to OVERRULE . our Federal Senate?? Other scary Precedences an INTERNATIONAL atomic energy commission?? . ICC international criminals court system Like one of the other email poster mentioned ... it's the MONOPOLY of power that scares me. Now, Keith, you mentioned Corporate monopolizing of power. And you're right. I believe that this is another problem. The problem is, I get this scary feeling ... that when all this said and done... global employment, the one-world company ... will merge and be consolidated with UN .. the global government. And possibly even with a global church of some kind. This way, one ... humungo Corporate structure will run our work and financial lives (Corporate) our at-home/ weekend lives (government) and even our personal / family (church) lives. From cradle to the grave. All people (in the whole world now) ... working for peanuts ... giving all there sweat and toil to one person (global CEO) all allegiance to one person (global president) all purpose-in-life to one doctrine (global pope). Now remember ... before flaming ... this is ONLY ONE GUY'S OBSERVATION. I neither had any preconceived notion before making these conclusions. Neither any intent .. of coming to any conclusions.Just a guy living his life, watching the news . and all-of-a-sudden seeing a pattern. That's it. Now, can we kill this subject?? (putting on fire suit just-in- case, LOL) BTW, I enjoy being in this group. still finding a place in my life to take the plunge and concoct my own biodiesel and brag that I make my own fuel that runs this car I'm driving. Final plan is to make a biodiesel powered hybrid. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Curtis The big bugaboo over the dreaded one-world government - does that strike the same fear and loathing into the heart of anyone outside the US I wonder? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Washington Wants War! Was: Just one man's observation!
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith writes: This is exactly why the US, the UK and the other Allies formed the UN after WW2. It is a problem for the whole world, not just Washington, and when the whole world disagrees with Washington's proposed solution, Washington should listen, rather than trying to railroad the UN and the world. This gives me an idea -- I've been wondering how to refer to my country in conversations these days. The problem is that America is obsessed, America wants war, etc etc. doesn't speak for ME or many of the Americans I know. I think I'll start referring to the insane masterminds of this immoral foreign policy, as well as the ones who just sit idly while it happens, as Washington. That doesn't cover all of 'em, but it covers a good percentage. Somewhere along the way, Washington got the idea that it was synony- mous with America. It's not, and we need a simple way to clarify that in discussions. Thanks for the tip, Keith :-) -K Hi Ken, I have the same problem in identifying myself. Someone else suggested referring to those in Washington DC as 'Beltway Bandits'. There is a real need to differentiate betweens 'We, the People', and the greedy, corrupt, power-mad Tyrants who endeavor to speak for us. We basically have a 'puppet government' that has/is usurping control of us. There is a multi-faceted plan in action to grab all the Power possible, in a short period of time. The highly visible portion that has the world in an uproar, is the Iraq situation. I speculate that it is partially 'Good Cop-Bad Cop' and partially a bluff with lots of back-up in place in case the Bulff is called. Iraq is also a distraction from what is happening in South America, and in the US itself. While demonstrators march in opposition to War in Iraq, no one seems to have noticed the Patriot 2 Act being snuck in amidst the confusion! Our Legislators pass 'Laws' that they have no Consitutional Authority to pass. Our Courts and Judges disregard the Laws at will, and impose arbitrary rulings as they see fit. Our 'elections' resemble those of a Banana Republic, and yet we claim to be an example of Freedom? Bread and Circuses, Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Only two choices?? Why?? Was: IS BUSH NUTS? by William Thomas
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is it that the only two choices I seem to be given in life are either to be a Government Slave (Democrat) or a Corporate Slave (Republican). What if I want neither?? Like maybe to be Free ... for instance?? Curtis Curtis, Very well put, Sir! Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Recycling Woodash
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I recently learned that you could recycle woodash by using it to make lye soap (liquid) Can anyone tell me of other practical uses for woodash? Thanks Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer Soil amendment, depending on your soil type, of course. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, harley3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Motie: My Old snow plowing F-150 is still holding, but my concern was replaying the past. There has been a demonizing of SUV's. Somehow true work trucks and vans are getting thrown in with fancy luxury toys. Someone or group that doesn't know the difference between a SUV or work truck, is to be trusted regulating engineer specks. When does a truck become a car that looks like a truck. Personally I have been keeping an eye open for a reasonable diesel truck with 4 wheel to replace my gas burner. Keep warm in MN Harley in Wisconsin Trying to keep warm! That's the problem I have with Diesels in general. It's too darn cold here for them! Diesels for snowplowing are also a problem with transmissions. An automatic won't stand the torque load, and a manual uses up clutches too fast. I have a friend that builds auto transmissions for Drag Racing, and had him build one for my snowplow truck. I built my own engine, and put in a New Process full time transfer case. I wouldn't trade it for a new one, unless I intended to quit plowing! I've tossed around the idea of a 3208 Caterpillar with an Allison 5 speed auto tranny, if I were to start over. My concern then would be the weight when plowing in November, before the ground is frozen hard. I don't like making ruts in customer's yards. I have 10:1 compression pistons, and I can run on up to 50% diesel fuel, if I keep the RPMs up. I've played with the timing a bit, and it doesn't seem to make a difference. Vaporizing the Diesel fuel in the carb, is the only problem, especially on cold starts. It needs to warm up before I can load it. Later, Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't get me wrong ... I appreciate you replying to my post. But (I guess you don't know) ... I don't have internet access (ie, I can't click on any links). Could you kindly email me (Off-list, of course) the text of the article (if it isn't too much trouble ... that is). Sounds like an interesting article. You and Keith seem to find the darndest interesting articles!! Thanks, Curtis Here you go, Curtis, I'll post it for all. It may disappear if I don't post it. Motie UN - Secretary-General Clinton? Once again the future of Bill Clinton has become a hot topic that rivals ÷ or perhaps supplements ÷ Plan Hillary, which now is being massaged by New York's junior senator. Keeping his plans as secret as the flight plan of a stealth bomber, Bill has been scheming to prepare his next leap into the spotlight. Quite often when a bad situation is allowed to continue in the hope that it will go away, it just gets worse; and what he now is planning is beyond worse ÷ it is outrageous. With war in Iraq, weapons inspectors, meetings of the U.N. Security Council, conflicts between one-time allies and a new emergency every day or two, most of us are concentrated on the events of the day or even the hour. Yet there is a need to lift our eyes from the clock and look at the calendar. Early in the fall, some seven months from now, the U.N. General Assembly may select a new secretary-general. Kofi Annan is under pressure to resign before the end of his second term in 2006. If he does, the General Assembly, on the recommendation of the U.N. Security Council, will approve a replacement. COULD IT BE? Over the years, there have been secretaries-general from Europe, Asia, Latin America and Africa, but never from North America. Add to that fact the interesting detail that the U.N.'s towering Secretariat Building on Turtle Bay (First Avenue and 42nd Street to New Yorkers) is more than 50 years old, crumbling and is overdue for rebuilding. That takes money ÷ the kind of money only the long-suffering U.S. taxpayer can give, plus a cash-grabbing fund-raiser. Add one more fascinating fact: a well-known (notorious to most of us) American is looking for the secretary-general's job ÷ William Jefferson Clinton. While it is still early, there is a major international move under way to make Bill Clinton the chief executive of the United Nations. Unbelievable? You had only to watch Clinton's performance on a recent Larry King Live program. There, Bill, with his new haircut and coiffure blued to a snowy-white perfection, made repeated adulatory references to the United Nations. If Bill had planned this career move years ago, some actions during his presidency ÷ inexplicable to most of us at the time ÷ begin to make sense, at least as the ploy of a man maneuvering for a lucrative job in the international limelight that requires no heavy lifting. GROWING SUPPORT Now, here is the truly frightening aspect ÷ the fix is in. There are reports that Bill Clinton already has lined up support for his candidacy from Germany, France, England, Ireland and New Zealand. A handful of African states, led by Nigeria, are rooting for Bill. And Hillary has brought in Morocco and Egypt. The Russians have let it be known that they would not object to Clinton as the next secretary- general, and the Chinese love Bill almost as much as Monica did. In Latin America, Ecuador and Brazil's new labor-loving, rabble- rousing populist presidents are Bill's type of politician, and in Asia, many Indian leaders think warm and fuzzy thoughts about the former U.S. president. Bill recently told the Democratic Leadership Council, We don't have to be more liberal, but we do have to be more relevant in a progressive way. To that statement, he added his new doctrine: When we look weak in a time where people feel insecure, we lose. When people feel uncertain, they'd rather have somebody who's strong and wrong than somebody who's weak and right. Those little statements galvanized the Clintonistas who have embedded themselves in the National Security Council and the State Department. They now see the benefits of being wrong so often, and they are busily enlightening one another about their future prospects as tax- exempt international civil servants when Bill Clinton leads the United Nations. ARKANSAN'S TRAILER Think back to Clinton's many overseas visits (here, there and everywhere) while he was in the White House and during the past two years. If those visits had a policy thrust for the United States, it was hidden. But, as a trailer for becoming the next secretary- general, we now can see why the travel costs were so high. Obviously, the tactic of roping the dopes that has served Bill and Hillary so well for 10 long years still applies. Many have forgotten that Bill chose to ignore the fact that Saddam Hussein
[biofuel] Re: The proper use of duct tape to protect against a terrorist attack
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid51/p6e0da27094555916a2ad7e429 167dd92/fca59868.jpg LOL When I saw that the link was a JPG, I had visions of the subject bound and gagged with Duct Tape. The artist made a good start. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Introduction and some questions - Newbie
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you can't put a cord of wood in a pickup truck. a cord of wood is 4 x 4 x 8 and weighs 2 tons. Steve Spence WOW! I'm in culture shock. Here it's $40 cord delivered for Oak, but it's likely to be a minimum of 10 cords. Several People are selling seasoned mixed Hardwoods for $35 for all you care to load into your pickup. I don't see where I made any mention of hauling a cord of wood, and pickup truck in the same sentence. If I made that implication, it was accidental. I mentioned the price of Oak as being $40 per cord delivered to you. This is fresh-cut green (non-seasoned) wood, and is normally delivered in 10 cord(minimum) loads. In this area, seasoned wood is sold by Entrepreneurs who have invested the time and effort to cut, split, and stack it under cover for a year, and is normally only purchased by those who don't cut their own wood, or who have run short of their own seasoned wood. They buy a pickup load at a time to finish out the heating season. Some who heat with another source and want some wood for backup heat or for a Fireplace also buy a pickup load. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Introduction and some questions - Newbie
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Robin Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WOW! I'm in culture shock. Here it's $40 cord delivered for Oak, but it's likely to be a minimum of 10 cords. Several People are selling seasoned mixed Hardwoods for $35 for all you care to load into your pickup. Who in their right mind is wasting oak on firewood?? That stuff takes forever to grow! Robin Robin, Time is a relative thing. Compared to Radishes, Corn takes a long time to grow, but we don't stop using it. Even mighty Oak trees have a finite life span, and it would be wasteful to not use the resource. Heating Oil from Fossil Fuels takes even longer to replenish than an Oak Tree. It would be irresponsible to simply leave the wood to rot on the ground creating a fire hazard and breeding ground for diseases, and instead use Fossil Fuels for Heating your home. Once an Oak Tree is dead, whether from disease or storm damage or by being cut down for whatever reason, it would be wasteful and irresponsible to not utilize the wood. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Introduction and some questions - Newbie
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously we are talking about face cords and full cords...or as some like to call them, minor cords and major cords. ;-) Edward Beggs I was talking about full cords, and the weight is actually closer to 3 tons than 2, though it varies widely by Species and moisture content. Local terminolgy referrs to a firewood face cord(4X8), as a 'Rick' of firewood. It's generally 1/3 of a 'real' cord, though it varies by the length of the firewood. Most newer Woodstoves currently in use locally use 24 to 48 lengths. Older stoves use more traditional 16 to 18 lengths. 'Face Cord' in local usage is for non-standard lengths of wood, and referrs to a pile 4X8x whatever length the wood is. 6foot long fence posts or 10foot long fence rails are usually the only items that are sold by face cord. The above explanation is further proof that we don't have to deal with International cultural and language differences to inadvertently confuse the issues through inadequate definitions of terminolgy. This list is not only informative on Energy issues, but I find it educational and worthwhile in developing my communication skills, by repeatedly demonstrating the need for clear and precise use of common terms. This is also a good place to insert a 'Tip o' the Hat' to Hakan for being a great contributor, and to acknowledge his dedication and efforts in overcoming the language barrier. Best, Motie On Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 08:45 PM, Steve Spence wrote: you can't put a cord of wood in a pickup truck. a cord of wood is 4 x 4 x 8 and weighs 2 tons. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Civil Unrest
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll intersperse my comments. Motie: I thought your response to Mr. Fairanks seemed reasonable. It isn't as though you are grumbling for handouts, but rather asking to be allowed to do business. That is my position, which many seem to misinterpret as wanting some special treatment. I would be totally happy if we could simply all play by the same rules/regulations/laws. If only the rights of folks to do business were being protected. But under guise of being concerned about this, we see some people (e.g. the poster on the other local board) brushing aside the concern of some with complaints in favor of a seemingly oversimplified argument. Actually, his type is pretty common. They puke out some totally ignorant drivel just to see who will agree with them, then (I'm speculating) they decide by a democratic majority vote that their opinion is factual, and someone with lesser numerical support is to be blocked from disagreement or refutations. In any case, a couple of years ago when Mr. Ventura was governor, I thought I read somewhere that he wanted to help out the Minnesota ethanol cause, but was tied-up because he was clearly against mandates, on principle, and so he had a problem with mandating a certain amount of ethanol use. Sorry if this is inaccurate. That is pretty accurate, and I agreed with him then and now. I will fully support widespread voluntary use, but I can't support a government mandate. Once government mandates something, it's required use is always going to raise the price to consumers, and will usually end with government sponsored semi-monopolies. Regulatory rules applied arbitrarily soon eliminate any serious competition. Newly empowered Bureaucrats deny or approve Permit applications as they see fit. Regulatory rules are enforced or waived on an arbitrary basis. What was your opinion of his view and policies? Did he seem to make an effort to promote what you thought were reasonable policies toward ethanol production? I agreed with most of his Policies, but he wasn't able to implement a lot of them, due to the Good Old Boy Network's influence on regulatory bureaucrats. The bureaucrats have basically taken over the running of the State, by deciding who gets approvals and who doesn't. Most of them are Democrat supporters, so anyone who has connections to the Democratic Party can get exemptions from regulations and have needed applications processed and approved in a timely fashion. Did you ever try to get an audience of any sort with him? I bet if he knew a lot about your case he'd probably care a bit, even if he might fail to help as much as he thought he'd be able to do. I never talked to him directly, but I talked to his personal assistant several times. There was little he could do with all the other problems on his plate at the time. The Bureaucracy is deeply entrenched. I saw him on Leno the other night and he is apparently about to have a nationwide TV show on MSNBC. I don't have a strong opinion of him for or against but it seems clear that he has Presidential Aspirations at some point. I see little chance of him being elected to President. He has too many enemies in both of the major Parties. There may be some minor differences between Repubs and Dems, but they are both on the side of totalitarian government and won't tolerate any opposition for long. I see a change in the future, but I can't predict when it will occur, or what will be the trigger. I am certain it will be widespread. The grassroots level People are nearing their limits of tolerance, from Ruby Ridge and Waco, to Elian Gonzales, to the Klamath Basin farmers, to the Western States Loggers, to NRA members, to the Arizona Militia guarding the border, to the We the People Tax protest group, to Small Business owners. Government Agencies are running amok with no regard to the Constitution or Laws. Judges won't enforce the Laws against Corporate or Government abuses, in clear and direct violation of their Oath of Office to uphold the Constitution. Corruption and lawlessness abound within government Agencies, and the People have little legal recourse left. The Patriot Act and Homeland Security Act are just a couple of the latest straws on the Camel's back. I believe the plan for a totalitarian government has been planned for, well in advance of the present time. It's not been successfully implemented because the Second Amendment has not been totally disposed of, though it has been seriously infringed upon. I don't know what spark will light the tinderbox, but you'll know it when it happens. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo!
[biofuel] Re: Civil Unrest
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, motie_d [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did you ever try to get an audience of any sort with him? I bet if he knew a lot about your case he'd probably care a bit, even if he might fail to help as much as he thought he'd be able to do. I never talked to him directly, but I talked to his personal assistant several times. There was little he could do with all the other problems on his plate at the time. The Bureaucracy is deeply entrenched. I need to make an addition to my own post. One of the issues I discussed with Ventura's assistant is the need for a Legislative Bill that will grant Permits to applicants in 30 days after application if no reason for denial is given. The purpose would be to force the Bureuacrats to shuffle their paperwork in a more timely fashion, or state a need for more time to investigate. No more 'lost'or 'misplaced' paperwork delaying the process, or backlogs of many months waiting for approval or denial. If sufficient reason for denial is found, the reason must be clearly stated and supporting evidence included. No more simple 'Application Denied' without a legitimate and supported explanation of the denial. If an Appeal of the decision is filed, the follow-up investigation should be required to include the supporting evidence used to make the final determination. Ventura's Assistant was very interested in that idea. That was as far as it went. If I can't get Legislators interested, maybe I can get a Judicial Precedent set? I was interested enough that I have a case in process right now, holding an Official personally responsible for his determination. He missed a 30 day deadline to provide supporting evidence for his PERSONAL determination. My allegation is that he made a PERSONAL determination, NOT an Official one, as his Official duty, which would give him Official Immunity from Prosecution, does NOT include conducting Fraudulent investigations. I allowed him an opportunity to provide any evidence he used to make his determination, as Proof (Supporting Evidence) that an Official investigation was conducted. His failure to provide any refuting evidence within the timeframe, or request additional time to comply, leaves my allegation UNREFUTED, and as of this time legally IRREFUTABLE! This only takes me to the point where I now posses IRREFUTABLE evidence that whatever investigation he conducted was PERSONAL, not Official. That leaves him without Official Immunity from prosecution, and Personally liable for damages, which are ongoing and cumulative. His Supervisor has until next Friday to provide me with all pertaining documents in his possesion, or he will be charged also, and also on a Personal basis, as his Official duties do not include Suppression of Evidence or Conspiracy to Commit Fraud. My position is that if an Official investigation was done that is detrimental to me, I have a Right to challenge and Refute/Rebutt any disqualifying evidence. To this time, I have no evidence for or against, and have made the allegation that no investigation was ever done. This is Perjury and Fraud, and will be pursued as a personal affront. I have an air-tight case, and very deliberately left no room for Judicial discretion, and if the Judge won't do his sworn Duty, he will also be Sued on a Personal basis. Tired of Tolerance for misconduct, Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] More reason for Unrest?
http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/7230/view/print Secret Draft Of `Patriot II' Justice Department Drafts Sweeping Expansion Of Anti-Terrorism Act Charles Lewis is the founder and executive director of the Center for Public Integrity. Adam Mayle is a James R. Soles Fellow at the Center. Editor's Note: The following report is available at The Center for Public Integrity's Web site. (WASHINGTON, Feb. 7, 2003) -- The Bush administration is preparing a bold, comprehensive sequel to the U.S.A. Patriot Act passed in the wake of 9/11, which will give the government broad, sweeping new powers to increase domestic intelligence-gathering, surveillance and law enforcement prerogatives, and simultaneously decrease judicial review and public access to information. The Center for Public Integrity has obtained a draft, dated Jan. 9, 2003, of this previously undisclosed legislation and is making it available in full text. The bill, drafted by the staff of Attorney General John Ashcroft and entitled the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003, has not been officially released by the Department of Justice, although rumors of its development have circulated around the Capitol for the last few months under the name of the Patriot Act II in legislative parlance. It's troubling that they have gotten this far along and they've been telling people there is nothing in the works. We haven't heard anything from the Justice Department on updating the Patriot Act, House Judiciary Committee spokesman Jeff Lungren told the Center. They haven't shared their thoughts on that. Obviously, we'd be interested, but we haven't heard anything at this point. Senior members of the Senate Judiciary Committee minority staff have inquired about Patriot II for months and have been told as recently as this week that there is no such legislation being planned. Mark Corallo, deputy director of Justice's Office of Public Affairs, told the Center his office was unaware of the draft. I have heard people talking about revising the Patriot Act, we are looking to work on things the way we would do with any law, he said. We may work to make modifications to protect Americans, he added. When told that the Center had a copy of the draft legislation, he said, This is all news to me. I have never heard of this. After the Center posted this story, Barbara Comstock, director of public affairs for the Justice Dept., released a statement saying that, Department staff have not presented any final proposals to either the Attorney General or the White House. It would be premature to speculate on any future decisions, particularly ideas or proposals that are still being discussed at staff levels. An Office of Legislative Affairs control sheet that was obtained by the PBS program Now With Bill Moyers shows that a copy of the bill was sent to Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert and Vice President Richard Cheney on Jan. 10, 2003. Attached for your review and comment is a draft legislative proposal entitled the `Domestice Security Enhancement Act of 2003,' the memo, sent from OLP or Office of Legal Policy, says. Dr. David Cole, Georgetown University Law professor and author of Terrorism and the Constitution, reviewed the draft legislation at the request of the Center, and said that the legislation raises a lot of serious concerns. It's troubling that they have gotten this far along and they've been telling people there is nothing in the works. This proposed law, he added, would radically expand law enforcement and intelligence gathering authorities, reduce or eliminate judicial oversight over surveillance, authorize secret arrests, create a DNA database based on unchecked executive `suspicion,' create new death penalties, and even seek to take American citizenship away from persons who belong to or support disfavored political groups. Some of the key provision of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003 include: Section 201, Prohibition of Disclosure of Terrorism Investigation Detainee Information: Safeguarding the dissemination of information related to national security has been a hallmark of Ashcroft's first two years in office, and the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003 follows in the footsteps of his October 2001 directive to carefully consider such interest when granting Freedom of Information Act requests. While the October memo simply encouraged FOIA officers to take national security, protecting sensitive business information and, not least, preserving personal privacy into account while deciding on requests, the proposed legislation would enhance the department's ability to deny releasing material on suspected terrorists in government custody through FOIA. Section 202, Distribution of `Worst Case Scenario' Information: This would introduce new FOIA restrictions with regard to the Environmental Protection Agency. As provided for in the Clean Air Act,
[biofuel] Re: Introduction and some questions - Newbie
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're probably looking at $300 then. Is the price of firewood in your area worth messing with it? I'm looking at around $225.00 a cord for soft woods, $300 for hard wood. WOW! I'm in culture shock. Here it's $40 cord delivered for Oak, but it's likely to be a minimum of 10 cords. Several People are selling seasoned mixed Hardwoods for $35 for all you care to load into your pickup. The cost of renting a log splitter is $10.00/Hr 3 Hr minimum, That is another thing that never crossed my mind. A few retired people own Log Splitters, but mostly just for recreational use. It's faster and better exersize to split it by hand. Or pay a neighbor kid $20 to split and pile it for you. and even if the cost of a chain saw is about the same, I figured I would still come out on top ( even if I went out and bought a chain saw new ). Better check the prices on Chainsaws first. The thought never crossed my mind that you may not already own one. I was just figuring that if the I could cut with high pressure water faster and it be not as messy, it might bring the cost down even further. Sorry. :-( It's strictly an Industrial process. Greg H. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Obstacles facing small producers and co-ops in the US
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've written a lot here and at the Biofuel list and elsewhere about on-farm energy and biofuels production. Odd... Ed Beggs (if you don't mind Ed) and I have just been wondering off-list about this matter of farmers. Ed said: ...why so few farmers? You'd think they'd be all over the listmaybe they just lurk a bit and then quietly go build stuff we have not even thought of yet, for about $10, plus some broken cultivator bits, eh? My perception is that the farmers are waiting for Big Business to take the leadership role, get government involved to provide subsidies and a guaranteed profit, then they'll go for it. Maybe - hopefully... But I've encountered very few here, and in the biodiesel world generally, and the few I have encountered haven't been doing it very well. Often not that much better than the Illinois soy and wheat farmers crying over the lost subsidies for their wind farm, with apparently never a thought for biodiesel or ethanol power, or all the US chicken farmers (factory farmers) and their wails of anguish over heating bills every winter, despite all that eminently biogasable chicken litter they seem to have so much trouble disposing of (though of course a lot of chicken shit gets fed to cattle). They've been brainwashed and trained for so many years to depend on governemnt to guarantee them a positive income, that it seems to be inconceivable for them to make any investment on their own. Even their Cooperative ventures are all governmentally underwritten. Ho hum. Best Keith Me too, Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Just like VS exactly the same Was: From a local Group
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been thinking this for quite awhile now. It's as if ( from an extremely BROAD point of view) GOVERNMENT and BIG BUSINESS have MERGED. Into a sort-of-a Global Employment The One-World-Company. One that owns the whole damn turf. With Government simply degrading into sort of a competition-crushing DEPARTMENT of the company. And with little or no distinction as to which Party is 'in charge'. When an oppressive Tyranny is in charge, is there any real difference whether the Slave Master is left-handed or right-handed? The sting of the lash is the same. Now I know what you all think it's not exactly like that And you're right ..it's not. However, think from the small businesses perspective. Trying to get into the market. The EFFECT is the same. And THAT is the point I'm trying to get across. I think you have illustrated it clearly enough for most. Those who don't understand are likely to be incapable of understanding, whether that is through Mental insufficiencies or inabilties to see beyond preconceived notions supported by propaganda. I was trying to make a similar point in an earlier post about comparing what America is turning into ... versus WWII Hitler. I compared Hitler cornerning the market of him being the boss and modern America's Homeland Security ... Total Info Awareness F (still don't remember what F stood for) Terrorist-findingWiretapping etc. Someone counterposted by saying modern America and WWII Hitler are WAY different ... you be quiet Curtis. Well he's right!! Modern America and WWII Germany ARE different. Us and them ARE using different tactics. But what I'm proposing is that ... although different mechanisms are being used the EFFECTS the effects on both small businesses the EFFECTS on you and me as individuals ... the EFFECTS are the same. Less freedom. More monitoring by the incumbent in power on us individuals (and small businesses) on what we are up to. Monitoring if possibly we're in striking range of replacing him in the power seat. And so on. I wouldn't limit that to the current occupant or his Partisan affiliations. Does it really matter which individual in a school of Piranhas is the Official Leader, or which Cancer cell started a Tumor growing? Tactics don't HAVE to be the same. The effect is what counts. Concentration of power will always be ... concentration of power. Expending time and effort to determine which drop of water will be the one to kill you, while you are actively engaged in drowning, is a distraction of resources that would be better spent grasping at straws! Funny how, when the tactics change, nobody seems to recognize when we're on the same road again. And as long as South Park, Talking Head 'News' services, Pro Sports etc. are on TV, few will watch the History channel, read a book or discuss any serious topics with their friends and neighbors in a knowledgeable manner. Hot Topics of discussion will continue to be Pro Sports and whatever topic Pop Culture TV has decided is deserving of a moments attention. In our current situation, who wins the next election matters about as much as who won the Super Bowl. Some Coaches will be retired, some will be promoted, some of the Players will retire, a few new ones will come in, but the Game itself will continue next year, pretty much the same as it did this year. sigh, Me too! Curtis Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: From a local Group
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What was the local group? Greg H. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mn-politics-discuss/ His 'wisdom' for today... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mn-politics-discuss/message/13695 There is a limit of 2 posts per day and all posts are required to have your full name and address. Threads must be kept to a Minnesota focus. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Introduction and some questions - Newbie
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I checked already, they would charge me for hauling away the wood even if I have them leave it so I can burn it in my fireplace. Greg H. Have you checked with several different companies? What prices are they asking? Is the company local? How far away is it to a non-local company? If you get a couple more neighbors with Tree removals planned, can you make a cooperative offer to get an out of town company to give a better price? How big are the trees, and how much free-space around them? Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Introduction and some questions - Newbie
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Tom Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Motie, High pressure water was commonly used to debark logs in sawmills the US until about 1970 when environmental regulations limited water discharge. Since then most all hydraulic debarkers have disappeared in favor of mechanical debarkers because of the high cost of cleaning the water prior to discharge. It was a clean and efficient method of debarking with very little fiber loss. Tom I'm trying not to reply to this thread in order to stay within the agreement I signed. I apologize for any perceived violations of the spirit of this list. We had NO water discharge from either the debarking or the further processing. Slight losses from evaporation and disposal of the wet bark did occur, and was replaced by distilled water. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Introduction and some questions - Newbie
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Motie, How long is that Non-disclosure in effect? I like the idea of not using a dirty / messy chain saw. Greg H. It's for 3 years, and I can't discuss the Project or the results, but Hydro-cutting is a pretty wide topic. I can discuss portions not related to the Proprietary work. What type of work are you doing with the dirty/messy chainsaw that may be able to be replaced by using water? Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Biodiesel businesses - was Re: [biofuel] so i got one more ?
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems as lot of the red tape and pure obstruction to small-scale operators may have been cleared away, largely as a result of work done by various list members here and at Biofuels-Biz. Lots of info in the archives about all this - really lots. Check out EPA hassle in both archives. However, it still needed a test case, and I haven't heard of one. Bill Clark, if you're listening, any news for us on this? Or anyone else? There are also other options - various kinds of coops, fuel for off-road use, etc. Actually, from what I hear and enquiries I get, there seems to be a large number of people at various stages of starting biodiesel and biofuels operations in the US (since you're talking about the US), and also elsewhere, in Britain, India, Thailand... Let's have some news about what's going on out there, you good folks who're doing it. Tell us your plans, progress, problems and constraints, if you can, without giving too much away. It would be good to try to get some sort of view of how it's all developing at that level. Best wishes Keith I've been inadvertently coming across an increasing number of people who wish to use WVO and/or Biodiesel for heating purposes. Little information seems to be readily available as to Furnace conversion technology that is avaiable for purchase for those not inclined toward Do-it-yourself Projects. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] From a local Group
A post from a local group. I previously refuted the Author of this piece on another misleading post, and he sent a personal FLAMING reply to my personal Email. I calmly and rationally debunked all his misrepresentations and outright fabrications, complete with links in support, and posted the whole letter to the list. He immediately sent a message to the Moderator for my 'violation of his privacy' for posting his private message in public, and demanded that I be barred from posting privileges. The Moderator dutifully suspended my posting privilege, and now this type of drivel and misinformation goes unrefuted. Motie Free Speech and Freedom of (Artistic? LOL)Expression only apply to those who agree with the Moderator. There's little doubt as to why the public is uninformed, or worse yet, misinformed on so many topics. The following message was a comment on the Minnesota Ethanol subsidy, and whether or not it should be repealed. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mn-politics-discuss/message/13690 The governor's way was to unallot the subsidies to $6 million from $27 million. Our fight has just begin on the rest of it. But the argument stands here: the senate restored subsidies, singling out Gopher State Ethanol for the cut-out. The House refused to go along with Pawlenty, restoring all subsidy cuts (Speaker Sviggum's family benefits directly from these subsidies) and refusing to slice GSE out of the restoration. It follows: GSE owner Bruce Hendry feed thousands of dollars to Republican candidates and the republicans control the House. Meanwhile, Michael Paymar's bill to revoke subsidies for any urban ethanol operation that violates local and state laws - in this case GSE's chronic violation of nuisance laws, chemical emission limits and noise ordinances - all of which have been the subject of lawsuits at the local, state and federal levels, some still pending. Moreover, GSE has been found in contempt of court for its continuing violation of its own agreements under initial settlements with the City of St. Paul and CASE. Another bill in the Senate would move the GSE operation to a rural setting and out of the urban core (still the only urban-based ethanol refinery in the world). Ostensibly, the subsidies originally targeted for GSE would be employed to pay for the move out of here. This is good for St. Paul's neighborhoods and, perhaps that's what should happen, but as state policy, I find it difficult to swallow that we merely buy into a shift of our problems to another area of the state, no matter how the people out there might welcome it initially. Another major question: What reason do all the other air and environmental quality organizations give for avoiding this fight? Where is the Sierra Club, the Audubon Society, the Environmental Defense Fund and all the others who claim to care about the air? Evidence abounds that ethanol is nothing it was touted to be - especially as a renewable replacement for fossil fuel and a safer substance for combusting gasoline. This entire issue has been couched miserably as limited to local pollution concerns (along with the marginalization of neighborhood opponents), but we should be examining in detail the larger issues of: *the volumes of fossil fuels burnt in its manufacture (including those used in ethanol-exempt farm machinery and petroleum-based fertilizers) along with the federally mandated mitigation of its pollution plume; *ethanol's efficacy and efficiency as an additive (including much higher mileage when mixed with gasoline and the eating away of organic parts of auto engines); *ethanol's ineffective mitigator of carbon dioxide and its actual production of pollutants from automotive tailpipes never seen with gasoline alone. Only carbon monoxide it somewhat curtailed by its inclusion; and *the current profitability of ethanol refineries continuing to receive unnecessary subsidies should all be on the table during the continuing debate on the hill. (Farmers know best how much it really costs to produce a bushel of corn for ethanol use. The sibsidies are simply putting unnecessary dollars in their pockets.) Progressives who feel torn by this issue should actually begin researching the damage being done by this substance - to the air, to fossil fuel reserves, to motor vehicles forced to burn it and even to the workers who make it. This is not a local issue, it's a national, perhaps even international issue of public resources being allocated to a major corporate structure for growing more and more corn, selling it through middlemen and processing it into an ineffective oxygenator of petroleum products. Cargill, ADM and huge farmer co-ops that disgrace the name cooperative are among the wealthiest and most profitable of corn producers and processors - and they continue to milk from the public teet. The railroad train continues - in the US and, now, in Canada. It's time this bleeding of public
[biofuel] Re: Introduction and some questions - Newbie
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3 very large pines in the yard, 2 of which are very close to the house ( the trunks are less than 8 ft. from a wall ). Greg H. I don't see how the technique could be used to cut a few trees in a 'field' setting. This is much more similar to an Industrial Laser. You may be much better off calling a Tree Removal Service for the job. They should have the tools and skills needed, and adequate insurance to cover any Oops! moments. Best Wishes, Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: From a local Group
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Jon Fairbanks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why do you guys waste your time grumbling and BEGGING for hand outs and the goodwill of others? Get your stuff working...AND...cost effective...and show all those creeps you are right. Jonathan Fairbanks LOL! It's the nature of the Beast, I guess. No one is allowed or permitted to go into competition with the government favored Businesses. It's a mutual back-scratching arrangement. The government subsidized Businesses give large amounts of Campaign money to Politicians, and the Politicians give huge subsidies to those who contribute well. They actively support each others Monopoly by stonewalling any applications for Permits. If you are not a Member of the Insider's Club, you will not be allowed through the Bureaucratic Permit process. Putting together a viable Business Plan is no big deal, even without subsidies. Getting past the Regulatory hurdles is nearly impossible. I probably need to add a Disclaimer here, that my position is not unbiased. I've been trying for 5 months to get into Court, and can't because I haven't exhausted all Administrative remedies. Administrative remedies consist of sending in Affidavits, Complaints and Demands, waiting 30 or 60 days and filing followup paperwork, to discover that my initial papers were misplaced or lost, or have been referred to another Department and/or must be resubmitted, etc etc etc. A Public Service announcement in a Newspaper advising the Public to be sure to have any dealings with certain individuals written and signed under penalty of Perjury as the subject is a proven Liar, seemed to stir a bit of action. My major complaints are to the Supervisory level of a State Department now, and I have documented evidence of Fraud and Conspiracy waiting to be filed against a lower level Official on a personal basis. I am accumulating evidenciary documents against a Judge and a Prosecutor for Fraud, Perjury and Civil Rights violations. What most People consider to be Laws to be obeyed, are seen as simple guidelines that can safely be ignored on an arbitrary basis if you have the proper 'connections'. To my dismay, I have found that to be an accurate assumption. Enough of the ranting, Motie Who would much prefer to be working on research and development of renewable alternative energy Projects. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Introduction and some questions - Newbie
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is an out of print book Novel Drilling Technoques that in the second edition talks about cutting sandstone at several meters per second with liquid pressures of that magnitude. Granite I think was 7cm per second if memory serves. Obscure technology. Anyway, you can lose a lot more than just soft tissue. Even a couple hundred psi can inject you like a hypodermic needle. Probably wouldn't be a good thing to happen. Kirk I did some experimentation last winter for a technology development company, using high pressure water to cut wood. At a lower pressure, the water can be used to easily and cleanly remove the bark,(which contains contaminants) then turn the pressure up to thinly slice the wood, removing water soluble extracts. Non-disclosure agreements won't allow further details. Sorry. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] American Ship of State has been hi-jacked
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, studio53 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd have to agree wholeheartedly. I love this country like I love life, but the original idea was for government to serve the people, taking on a background role. Now, the government is a business like any other corporation, except it's a poorly run disgrace controlling and directing everyone's lives. It is a criminal enterprise. The original premise was that the People have inalienable Rights to Life, Liberty and pursuit of Happiness. Government was instituted to protect those Rights from infringements, using a very limitted range of Authorities. Current occupants of elected Offices are working well outside of their legal Authorities. Now that we have both expressed dissident views on an International list, can you make a prediction as to how long it will take for the Storm Troopers to break down our doors and spirit us away? According to the Homeland Security Act, we are now terrorists, and can be held indefinitely without charges ever being filed against us. We just lost our Right to a Trial by Jury, and to be able to question Witnesses against us. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Composting Glycerine?
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glycerine (glycerol) It used to be used in smoke machines. Maybe someone can figure out how to mix it with water, run it through a VEG-Therm, (which will do a nice job of making the fog-like smoke, I am quite sure) into a venturi, into the turbo, and mist fumigate the diesel with it, thus getting rid of the glyc by using it in the diesel, reducing NOx via fumigation, and getting more power all at the same time. Edward Beggs Neoteric Biofuels Inc. http://www.biofuels.ca Home of the G3 SVO kit and the VEG-Therm 12/24V inline SVO heater. Ed, I like the way you think! Not just 'outside the box', but more like What box?! I have too many 'Irons in the Fire' right now, but I can see much potential for your idea, particularly in a stationary application where size and weight constraints aren't as critical. A Bio-Diesel engine turning a Generator, with Exhaust and Coolant heat recovery shouldn't be too difficult to put together. CHP with waste-disposal all in one package!!! Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: RE:Ag subsidies
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, well, Motie, you've certainly demonised the poor old Sierra Club, they couldn't be that effectively demonic no matter how hard they tried. Among lobbiests in Washington they and the other enviros are considered a joke, and they are, a bit, especially by comparison with real industry lobbiests. It doesn't really matter whether they are considered a joke by real industry lobbyists. What matters is that they have been effective in filing numerous frivolous Lawsuits that have mostly closed down a once thriving Industry. They get their invites to the press conferences and luncheons and so on, and they try to get a bit corporate too themselves, probably through sheer osmosies, but they're a joke. If they are a joke, how come no one outside of Washingtomn DC is laughing? Check witht he Farmers in the Klamath Basin, and see how many are laughing. Ask if the families of the Firefighters killed by these Environmental Whackos' are laughing. It's bad enough that there Policies are burning our Forests, but when their Whacko Laws won't let a Helicopter scoop water from a river to save Firefighters lives because there may be some fish also scooped up, no one involved is laughing about it. You've swallowed the wrong line, which has been fairly clear for a while. It isn't clear to me. Please enlighten me as to how burning our Forests, and putting entire Towns out of work is a good thing. Notice how you've swung from ag subsidies for soy and corn to defending your precious forests against the evil legions of the Sierra Club, backed by twisted scientists and corrupt politicians. They are related issues. Corrupt politicians, backed by pseudo- science and corrupt Judges that disallow any legal dissent are destroying our Nation for personal gain. Using National Resources to secure Mid-east Oil for Big Oil is also a part of it. We need to throw off the hands of Tyrants while we are still able. When the Corporations and the Government ignore all legal restraints, we have a military Dictatorship, and the active participation of the Judiciary is the enabling force. I predict that sustainable Logging will resume, and it will be unhealthy for whoever tries to stop it. I predict that many Judges are going to be Impeached, even if it means using force to remove them. I predict that local Sheriffs will be siding with The People, maybe even to the extent of calling on the National Guard to assist if needed. Instead of raising cordite over the Sierra Club, why not just go and blow up Disneyland, I'm sure that would be just as effective. That comment is very uncharacteristic of you, Keith. Moving is a stressful task, and it shows. A slow walk in the Forest, listening to the Trees, is good medicine for relieving stress. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: RE:Ag subsidies
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Motie, I'm quite surprised. We had all this out previously in a lengthy discussion with Greg that centred on this news story, and on the GAO report it references. http://ens-news.com/ens/jul2002/2002-07-11-06.asp Conflicting Reports Shade Forest Fire Debate It debunks what you're saying, about frivolous lawsuits and the rest, but you persist in saying it. It wasn't just this lone story, there was plenty more. I think I asked you before: didn't you follow that discussion? Yes, I followed it, but it doesn't debunk or defuse the situation. Now you make these sweeping references to Klamath Basin farmers and so on, ascribing it all in one huge lump to the Sierra Club and/or Environmental Whackos, along with thieving judges and so on and on, but there seems to be a general shortage of facts, data, cases, specifics. You are correct that I haven't taken the time to present this as a legal case. I didn't think that this was the right place to argue it out. There's been that shortage all along, right from when you started this discussion months ago. You haven't presented a case. Instead, put under any pressure, you simply up the ante - now the Sierra Club and/or Environmental Whackos are somehow related not only to Monsanto and Archer Daniels Midland and the soy subsidies etc (LOL!) but also to Big Oil in a Mideast resources grab. You don't think that's maybe stretching it just a teeny bit? If the perception is that I am blaming 'it' all on the Sierra Club, then I failed to clearly present my thoughts. The Sierra Club is just a very small portion of what is wrong in our Nation. The 'Top Down' management style, backed up by the force of the Courts, is the problem I am trying to address. Endless litigations over the smallest decision is oppressive to the People trying to make a living. The outcome of litigation is actually irrelevant, if you can be delayed for 6 months to several years. Children still need to be fed and clothed. Stifling Oppression is the problem, and it seems that nearly every aspect of government is furthering it, instead of alleviating it. Corporate insiders (Big OIl, ADM,) are running governmnet Policy, based on benefit to them, not on what is right or Just.(or even Legal) Their 'pocket Judges' and 'pet Bureaucrats' continue to enable it, by blocking every attempt to recourse by the People. Please don't conclude that I'm brushing aside the plight of the Klamath Basin farmers and the families of dead firefighters on account of my disagreeing with you about the cause. I think you have misunderstood what I meant when discussing the 'cause'. I think you might do them more honor to look at it with less prejudgment (which means the same as prejudice, but prejudice is such a prejudiced word that I hesitate to use it). I admit to some prejudism. It's very difficult to ignore the disastrous consequences of these Policies, when one is being beat over the head with them on a daily basis. Um, yes, well. Now how does the poor old Sierra Club fit into all that, pray tell? They are one of the active participants in the endless litigations that have driven the cost of timber harvest beyond what the market will bear. It's cheaper to import Lumber from Canada, than it is to utilize that which is growing right outside our back doors. I predict that sustainable Logging will resume, and it will be unhealthy for whoever tries to stop it. I predict that many Judges are going to be Impeached, even if it means using force to remove them. I predict that local Sheriffs will be siding with The People, maybe even to the extent of calling on the National Guard to assist if needed. ... Ulp... (!) I think you should take it easy. I intend too. There are a lot of hungry, out of work Loggers and Sawmill Employees who will not. They've been demonized and starved and frustrated in their quest for Justice to the limit of their tolerance. I predict some Logging will resume, in a sustainable and environmentally sensitive manner, regardless of injunctions against it without mounds of paperwork, Permits and 'Studies'. I don't think Juries will convict anyone for violations of these 'Laws'. I'm not under stress Motie, sorry, and it wasn't at all uncharacteristic of me to be sceptical of a series of disconnects presented as a rational argument, no matter how fervently the presenter might believe in what he's saying. You confront me with faith, not reason, and I'm sceptical. But quite relaxed, thankyou - pleased to be moving, pleased to be going where we're going, and the move itself looks like being rather pain-free for a change. It's good to hear that. I'm happy for you. In fact, I sincerely do believe that blowing up the Sierra Club would be no more effective in achieving your goals than blowing up Disneyland
[biofuel] Re: See you later
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're one hour from leaving Osaka, moving house (and the whole project) to Ichijima, so I'll sign off and say goodbye for now. We should be able to hook up again tomorrow sometime. Sorry if some things are a bit slow till then, can't be helped. All best Keith Midori Journey to Forever Have a safe Journey, but not off to Forever just yet! LOL Best Wishes, Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: RE:Ag subsidies
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can only imagine what a 'Power Trip' it must be to be able to buy power and influence, using someone else's money! They are unlikely to voluntarily and willingly go quietly into the night! No sign whatsoever of any of them going quietly into the night, not in any sector. Maybe you guys should help them along a bit. Regards Keith OK! http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/10/195615.shtml http://www.libby.org/WesternNews/welcome.html I can almost smell a bit of COrdite in the air. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: RE:Ag subsidies
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/10/195615.shtml http://www.libby.org/WesternNews/welcome.html I can almost smell a bit of COrdite in the air. Motie Damp squibs like the Sierra Club and the Wildlife Fund? Compared with the sort of people who back the CEI and the other Wise Use groups? Well, it's abundantly obvious which is more successful, and they've sure got you and Ms Alden shooting in the wrong direction. I'll defend our Forests from whomever is destroying them. The people who have have lost their jobs, Businesses and way of life, are backed against a wall. Is the Sierra Club going to feed those families? Motie, are you saying the likes of the Sierra Club and the Wildlife Fund are responsible for this subsidies debacle, rather than ADM, Monsanto, Cargill, et al? So you're going to go out and raise clouds of cordite over the Sierra Club, and that's going to fix everything that's wrong in Washington. These are 2 separate factions of the same problem, which is overwhelmingly stupid Policies, backed by pseudo=science and money from (possibly well-meaning) ignorant people. Heavy-handed, Top-down decision making from 2000 miles away has to cease! If the people in Washington, STAY in Washington, they'll simply be ignored. Otherwise their run-away Train is getting close to an immovable object. I see. Hm. Er, interesting plan. If you can figure out a way to stop that regulatory train from having a terrible wreck, please speak up quickly. Legislators, Agencies and regulatory bureaucrats won't listen to The People's legitimate complaints. Prosecutors won't prosecute flagrant violations of The People's Rights under Constitutional Law, Judges ignore or throw out legal protests in direct violation of our Constitutional Right to Petition for Redress of Grievances. The Sierra Club, using influence with corrupt Officials, is throwing People out of work and out of their homes, and destroying our Forests in a misguided attempt to save them. It may come down to a question of who loads who into the cattle cars. There is a reason (besides Professional COurtesy) that corrupt government Officials have been trying so hard to disarm honest law- abiding Citizens, while letting criminals run free. Tolerance for Tyrannical oppression has a limit. That limit is being Approached quickly. Keith Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: RE:Ag subsidies
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would think that instead of having agricultural subsidies, or paying people NOT to grow things on their land, that we should instead get subsidize them to grow biofuel on their land. I disagree with subsidies in general. I thoroughly disagree with paying subsidies for producing massive quantities of a product that can't be marketted. If automakers produce more cars than they can sell in a year, should the government set a price above the market value of them, and buy all they can produce at that artificially inflated price? Or agree to pay $X per amount of product., if you still want to keep the price of soybeans up. That is somewhat what is currently happening. The problem comes in when there is no limit on the amount produced. Once production has far exceeded demand, it becomes a disposal problem to get rid of the excess. Paying somone to grow a different crop just sounds so wrong. I'm not sure I understand your statement. anyway.. then we could at least get more homegrown oil in the market. If the goal is to get more homegrown Oil on the market, it would make much more sense to me to grow a crop that produces more Oil than Corn! Canola comes instantly to mind. Atleast if we took the oil that is produced from the said crops that the gov't paid $X for... that and converted it to biodiesel on the market.. that would atleast lower the price of biodiesel.. That is also the current situation. The government has paid an artificially high price for Corn and Soybeans. Now they are paying to dispose of it. I agree that producing an alternative form of fuel from it is better than putting it in a landfill, but a much better solution would be to not pay for the excess production to begin with, and let the Farmers grow Oil or Biomass crops for energy use instead. Paying people, with taxpayer dollars, for *something* is a lesser evil than paying people, with taxpayer dollars, to do *nothing*. Not necessarily. It may be better to pay them to do nothing, than it is to pay them to do something, then have to pay someone else to dispose of whatever it was you paid the first group for doing. A better solution would be to pay the first group for doing something productive, such as growing energy crops instead of Corn and Soybeans. They may even find it to be profitable enough to grow energy crops without government subsidies. The farmers wouldn't be dependant of the government 'controllers of the purse strings' any more, so you can be assured that the controllers will be absolutely opposed to it. After all, it isn't their money anyway! I can only imagine what a 'Power Trip' it must be to be able to buy power and influence, using someone else's money! They are unlikely to voluntarily and willingly go quietly into the night! Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Ag subsidies
I came across an interesting letter on another list. I thought I'd share a portion of it with everyone. It agrees with my position on government subsidies, not only for Ag, but for all Businesses. Motie Twenty years ago, New Zealand felt obliged, like every other developed nation, to pay handouts to its farmers. Its agricultural industry stagnated, as farmers focused their efforts not on producing marketable food but on securing the biggest subsidy cheque. Then, in the mid-1980s, subsidies were withdrawn. The effect has been dramatic. New Zealand farmers now make profits off their own bat, and do so in open competition with the rest of the world's farmers: the country is the only one in the developed world to have removed tariffs on imports of foreign foods. While subsidies make up 45 per cent of farm income in Europe and 22 per cent in America, only 1 per cent of agricultural spending in New Zealand is from the public purse ÷ and that comes in the form of government-funded research, pest-control programmes and disaster relief. In promoting free trade in agriculture, New Zealand is still very much a one-man band. It shouldn't be. There is nothing unpatriotic about a `Buy New Zealand' campaign: our aim is merely to persuade our own government, too, to abolish agricultural subsidies. Readers with suggestions for good New Zealand nosh and where to buy it are warmly invited to get in touch. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Striking a Balance in the Forest
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-me- inimim6jan06001441,0,6338540 .story?coll=la%2Dnews%2Dscience January 6, 2003 COLUMN ONE Striking a Balance in the Forest Environmentalists, U.S. officials and loggers fashion a plan for a small piece of the Sierra. Still, some warn of pitfalls to local efforts. By Bettina Boxall, Times Staff Writer SAN JUAN RIDGE, Calif. -- Over the last 150 years this neck of the Sierra Nevada has been logged, gouged for gold and cultivated for marijuana. Now a quirky crew of locals and an independent-minded federal land manager are chasing something more elusive. Keith, Thanks for posting the story. I need a small bit of Sunshine occasionally, to contrast the numerous dark clouds in my sky. In appreciation, Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Official Accountability...or not?
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Alan S. Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hakan, I'd say you have a more accurate picture of Americans than most of us do of ourselves. My compliments. AP Alan, I would like to join you in your compliment to Hakan. I would also like to add, that I am glad to see that he can differentiate between 'the People' and certain Governmental activities. Far too many Americans fail to be able to make that distinction. We have too many Tyrannical Bureaucrats that are unaccountable to the People, because they are appointed instead of being elected. They are allowed to continue their Dictatorial abuse of their positions through illegal collusions with Prosecutors and Judges who either will not enforce the Laws, or are active participants by deliberately misinterpretting the Laws regarding Official Immunity from Prosecution for public Officials. Their Official Immunity is only for LEGAL activities that they engage in during the conduct of Official Business. They are NOT legally immune from prosecution for illegal activities conducted under Color of Authority. The first main problem with pressing this legal point is that Judges routinely dismiss any charges/complaints under cover of the Official Immunity from Prosecution Laws. That brings us down to the next level. Judges are NOT Officially Immune from Prosecution either, when they conduct illegal misinterpretations/misapplications of the Laws. Judges do indeed have immunity when conducting Official business under their Lawful Authority. No one has been able to show me where Judges have been vested with the Official Legal Authority to arbitrarily ignore the Laws 'as written'. When/if they do so, they are PERSONALLY legally liable for their actions, as they are not acting within the legal constraints of their Official capacity. Your second step is to file a Formal Legal Complaint against a local Tyrant. When this is wrongfully dismissed by a Judge, file a formal Legal Complaint against the Judge too. The first step is to cover your Ass...etts before you kick the Hornet's Nest. Good Luck, Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: GM rethinks hydrogen fuel cells
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Alan S. Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Indeed. If it's more practical to use a smaller fuel cell augmented with batteries then such a thing is likely. I predict no success with hydrogen. The stuff is simply too difficult to handle. Anything which can leak by difusing through the walls of its container, usually causing embrittlement in the process, isn't something I want powering my vehicle. AP I agree! If I could be guaranteed to be the only car on the road, it MIGHT be oF SOME interest. As long as other drivers are allowed out there, I don't want to be driving a potential bomb. At the technical level that I am aware of, Hydrogen is much better suited for stationary applications. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Food for thought
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith writes: Anyway, hadn't you guys over there better start thinking about taking your country back? Please??? Great idea, but hard to do when the Democrats haven't got anyone to offer but a bunch of uninspiring wimps who would've been called Republicans back in the good ol' days :-). I think, as usual, it has to get worse before it'll get better.-K No, I meant take it back, not just give it to the other lot. Keith Keith, Some of us are in active pursuit of that goal. It can't be done from the Top down, or effectively from the Grass Roots up. It needs to be a concerted effort on all levels at once. And you are correct in your statement that both major Parties will need to go. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Food for thought
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith, Some of us are in active pursuit of that goal. It can't be done from the Top down, or effectively from the Grass Roots up. It needs to be a concerted effort on all levels at once. And you are correct in your statement that both major Parties will need to go. Motie Yea verily. Seems to me that it's many of you though, not just some of you, and indeed at many levels, and growing fast - the current cosy little arrangement is just too blatant, and maybe people aren't quite as sheeple-ish as they're supposed to be. Now's the time, eh? Best Keith Hi Keith, Now is indeed the time! We got one party out of power, and the other one will soon be severely weakened. Partisan Politics must be resisted as strongly as Racism. Let the ideas and positions on the Issues stand or fail on their Merits, not be supported or opposed based on the Party affiliation of the Author. Onward, Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] US Forest Health
US Forest Health Item 3 in the summary is one of the most important parts. No longer will a judge in Florida or Hawaii make desisions on western forest lands. Ron ICIE's Tidbits-Forest Health Debate In the House of Representatives
[biofuel] Re: Burbank Cactus Catalog
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder if letting pigs in to plough it and manure it would do any good - perhaps followed by a dressing of good aerobic compost as an inoculum. Best Keith Don't forget the amazing benefits that can be achieved with Charcoal! Do a Google search on 'Terra Preta'. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Burbank Cactus Catalog
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't forget the amazing benefits that can be achieved with Charcoal! Do a Google search on 'Terra Preta'. I'm sceptical about much of what's being said about this, and I'm not the only one. Keith Keith, I try to be skeptical about everything. LOL Don't tell my wife, but I put several buckets of charcoal into one of her Flower beds last Fall. I won't know until next summer if it is beneficial or not. I also plan to put some as a top-dressing under some of my Berry trees. I am very particular about these Trees, and I am confident that it will do no harm. I'll report next summer sometime, if I see any benefit. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
industrial livestock husbandry was: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] toxins in this season U.S. corn
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which makes it a good chance that chlorine might brake up to estrogen in the human body, like codeine breaks up to opium? Hakan This whole topic seems to break down into a need to either quit urinating in the drinking water, or quit drinking the Sewage! Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
industrial livestock husbandry was: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] toxins in this season U.S. corn
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sorry Motie, You got it backwards. Probably we should drink the urine, since the kidney is very efficient in removing bacteria. As a forest man you must have learned to clean an accidental cut with your own urine to disinfect, if you lack other resources. Drinking it is not good, because of the high salt content. It is what comes in the other end that is highly bacterial. I am trying to avoid flames again. Hakan LOL! And as the Women who take the Estrogen Pills recycle it, the water is kept safe for others to drink? The Pharmacies will be against that happening. ;-) Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Impure Water
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do they manage to sell it in the US? Shouldn't be able to sell impure water. This may sound facetious, but they don't advertise it as 'impure water'. Municipal systems don't advertise their product as 'refined Sewage' either. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Burbank Cactus Catalog
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WHEN GROWN UNDER FAVORABLE CONDITIONS ON GOOD CULTIVATED SOIL IN A WARM CLIMATE MAY CONFIDENTLY BE EXPECTED TO PRODUCE ONE HUNDRED TONS OF FEED PER ACRE EACH SEASON. To get 100 tons of biomass out of an acre WILL REQUIRE at least 100 tons of some kind of inputs - in this case surely mostly WATER. Even if the harvested weight was not mostly water, the biomass weight MUST COME FROM SOMEWHERE, it doesn't just 'happen'. At some point, the 'GOOD CULTIVATED SOIL' will become depleted without an equal amount of nutrients/minerals returned to it. Putting 100 tons of petrochemical fertilizer on any crop to make biofuel is not a very sustainable approach, and will only make sense to study groups, conference planners and petroleum refiners. This is a more complicated situation than I have time to adequately deal with. MOST of the input would be Sunlight and Carbon Dioxide. Hopefully, someone can take the explanation from there, and expound on it. I'll speculate a bit, and concur that most of the 'harvest' is water. Sunlight provides an approximate average of 6-7 tons/acre/year of input, when combined with Carbon Dioxide, to arrive at a sustainable harvest figure. 'Oven-dry weight' is the commonly used method of determining the amount harvested. The amount of sunlight is variable by location. For ease of explanation, plant harvesting is simply collecting the amount of Solar Energy that has been collected and stored by Plants. The Sun is the source of nearly all of our energy. Plants are collection and storage devices. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] More Forestry? OH, NOOO!!!
Sorry to continue beating a dead horse. Part of what is keeping me so busy, is Forestry related. I have an interesting excerpt to share. I can't reveal the source, but it is an Official one. there are 708,000 acres of _. The estimated sustainable harvest for _ is 121,000 cords per year. Actual harvest in the year 2000 was 20,100 cords, leaving an available surplus of approximately 100,000 cords. Currently, there is a deficit of harvest of 100,000 cords/year of this one species to maintain the particular Forest at it's current status. A 500% increase in harvest rate would be needed to keep up with the annual rate of growth. Should the harvest be increased through sustainable harvesting methods, and be a productive resource, or should the excess be left to accumulate until the whole Forest is burned to bare mineral soil? One method is economically sustainable, and maintains a productive resource forever. The current method is simply waiting for a lightning strike to totally destroy the forest for many (100+)years. In Keith's pasture scenario, one portion was grazed, another was mowed and the material left to decompose. Suppose we had a third section of that same pasture, and left it alone through the whole growing season. No mowing or cutting, no grazing, and severely limitted observation! Let the plants grow tall! At the end of the season, or after several seasons of no harvest or activity, we set it on fire. That is our current Forest management strategy. I would like to add a thought to Keith's portion of the pasture that has been cut. Can a portion of the hay be sold to pay for the cost of cutting, to make it an economically sustainable plan? It needs to be cut occasionally to prevent it being taken over by weeds. I believe the productive useage of the pasture as a sustainable resource is the 'best' use and the 'best' Stewardship scenario, with the very last choice to be to simply burn all the growth in a Natural' manner. Keith's grazing scenario, and the 'let it burn' philosophy represent the extremes of Forest Management. Many of us are trying to work toward the middle ground, though it isn't our preferrred method, it is still better than simply letting it all burn. The 'Metro' thinking seems to be that Fire Prevention or a reduction of Fire Danger, should only be applied where someone has a House. A house can be replaced in less than a year. The surrounding Forest cannot be. In economic value terms, which is worth more, a house or several thousands of acres of trees. Burn the house and save the Forest. Also, in Keith's scenario, once the grass is cut, instead of leaving it to decompose, it could be gathered as a Hay crop, fed to his horse and the horse manure be returned to the field. Sale of excess Hay would pay for the costs involved. To relate this to current Forestry practice, teh trees are blown down in a storm, or killed by disease or old age instead of being cut. The sensible thing from my perspective, would be to salvage this wood and sell it to pay for any other needed improvements, which may also involve selected small controlled burns. The current situation involves months of litigation and Environmental Impact Studies until the wood is no longer fit for salvage. Then it has become a Liability instead of an Assett, and is a danger to the well-being of the rest of the healthy trees. I don't know if I should even open the can-o'-worms called 'below cost Timber sales'! It's just an accounting scheme promoted by those opposed to logging. That's enough for now. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: RE : [biofuel] Forest Fights
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At Thu, 19 Dec 2002 20:40:02 -, motie_d [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Motie, may I suggest the following? 1. It would be a nice idea to show some consideration to people (like me) with flaky Internet connections - like whetting the URL, whether the matter has already been discussed, if so what is the prevailing viewpoint, and what additional facets of the 'truth' that the article brings about. My apologies for not doing so. I am still highly pressed for time by matters beyond my control, and can't give the proper time to compose adequate responses. For now, I'll simply have to concede to the Sierra Club's perverted viewpoint, and let the matter drop. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Forest Fights
I'm terribly pressed for time, but thought this may be of interest. A minor correction to Hakan. I live in a National Forest, not a National Park. http://www.reason.com/rb/rb121802.shtml Best, Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was embodiedenergy)
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Grahams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 02:22 PM 12/15/2002, you wrote: Linseed oil as concrete sealer: http://www.flaxcouncil.ca/flaxind7.htmhttp://www.flaxcouncil.ca/fla xind7.htm prevents the breakdown of reinforcing steel. So an interesting idea would be to coat your rebar with oil before pouring your concrete. Then also coat the cured concrete on top to reduce water infiltration. Caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Misting with an emulsion of Linseed Oil and water BEFORE the concrete is cured is even better. It prevents the surface from drying out before the molecular cure is complete. Most Commercial concrete also has a white pigment added to reflect the sun to keep it cool until the cure is complete. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Last word on forests
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Prairie Dog [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry to start this up again, but I just HAD to... -Joel R. (sarcasm) OK! You've convinced me! I'll immediately start a Petition to make the local Golf Course quit destroying their beautiful Greens and Fairways with their Mowers. Some greedy person is probably making money selling the clippings. No more Mowers on our Golf Courses! Every few years, a burn may be acceptable, but only if it is set by lightning strikes. Under Clinton's Roadless Initiative, no firetrucks will be allowed access to control the fires, until the buildings are endangered, and even then only the buildings can be saved. The Farmers are next! Those greedy Capitalists must be stopped from clear-cutting those Amber waves of Grain. If we allow them to keep destroying the crops through clear-cutting methods, we'll all soon starve, and our croplands will all be bare dirt. We must protect 'our' croplands from those greedy Farmers. Let's all chain ourselves to a cornstalk, and keep those Combines from destroying a corn field near you! Force them to do an Environmental Impact Study, under our supervision. Studies can be completed in 2 years or less, but we need the Courts to stop the destruction until the Study is complete. Does anyone know how to effectively 'Spike' a cornstalk, or put sand in the engine on a Harvester? Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Last word on forests
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Joel, This information was provided earlier by Keith as an argument on this issues. Since it is the round for last word, I like to clarify my understanding of the discussion. Motie who is deeply involved with forest management in the area where he lives, have some local and particular problems. This has to do with how his particular forest works and how different interest groups acts with regards to his forest. When I say his forest, I mean the forest that he has interest in. Motie made it clear from the outset of the discussion, that he was talking about his forest and his opinion of what happened there. Discussing the issue from the outside, made me bringing up several points about forest management that was within my knowledge and experiences. During this exchange, I became fully convinced that Motie knew very well what he talked about and he was a responsible and caring representative for the forest management interests in his forest. I did of course not know his forest and my arguments and convictions had in this case to be of general nature. Keith who is a knowledgeable man in this field, picked up on the global aspect, but not without first recognizing Motie's competence and that he was the best one to talk for his forest. Said this, I like to add the following last words, Our nature is a sensitive environment that through millions of years developed a balance between the species. When some species started to dominate to a level that was not sustainable, things happened on both short and long term that corrected it. We now have a specie that are growing out of proportion, we call them humans and on short term the nature already started to try to apply corrections, long term nature will succeed. The impact of the humans is severe and during a very short time period they have caused enormous damages. Its survival will be totally dependent on responsible and sustainable management of nature. If we leave the solutions to nature, it will be very painful for the future humans that have to take the consequences of todays excesses. The environmentalist that wants to leave things only to nature, must also belive in the natural thinning of the human population. They should fight against medicines, transport, feeding starving people and all the other things that work against the natural control of the human population. Personally I prefer a managed sustainable world, even if it is no chance that I will ever see it. But we all have to work against this goal and show some kind of responsibility in trying to find a comfortable level for future humans or at least give them a chance to survive. Hakan Hakan, I believe you have a grasp of the situation. Broad brush 'solutions' cannot work. One National Policy cannot possibly cover the wide variance in local conditions. Proper Management must be on a local level, suited to local conditions, by competent local people. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: cold weather starting
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I remember when it was so cold the barking of the dogs froze right into the snow banks. You should have heard it during Spring thaw! :) I saw a couple of our hunting dogs out in the field with jumper cables trying to jump start a jackrabbit! That's Montana cold. Kirk LOL! My Grandfather told me that when he was young, it used to be his job to carry water to the chickens. He had to leave the house with boiling hot water, so it wouldn't freeze before he could pour it. Once he was too slow, and it froze in the bucket, and the ice was still too hot to touch. ;-) That's Minnesota cold, where you need to chip your dog off of your car tire before you can drive to work. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Â…kologisch ohne Â…kosteuer
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: something of interest http://www.rerorust.de/ Quite a lot of scepticism about him. Do these look that good to you? Cocked or gummed parts? My engine got checked. http://www.rerorust.de/rapsoel/check2_uk.htm Aargh! His links jump... Hit the English flag on the home page, then hit Cocked or gummed parts? My engine got checked. and look at the photographs. Keith Keith, I tried to check out the photos, but ended up confused. The only thing I saw that was discernable from the Photos is that he has been very lax in changing his Lube Oil, and that he has severely injured his right thumb in the past. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: cold weather starting
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, when I lived in Canada, we did ski in -40. It was great because there were so few people on the hill. I loved it. BTW, - 40 is both C F, it is the point where they meet. I had a 1/4 ton truck that was diesel, we used to just leave it run when it got that cold. Bright Blessings, Kim Don't do anything strenous enough to make you gasp for breath, or break into a sweat. Frost-bitten lungs are worse than Pneumonia and damp clothing leads to hypothermia rather quickly. Drinks lots of fluids, and eat plenty of high-calorie foods. Use a 'Buddy system' if possible. Don't be out alone when it gets that cold. A simple rule of thumb is if you can't spit on the ground without it freezing before impact, it's cold enough to be careful. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Article about biofuel business
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip A start for that might be found in the current over-production of sugar beet, rather than using inequitable trading arrangements to dump it on 3rd World countries, distorting their markets and rural sectors. And (unlike the US) maybe it will occur to someone to marry the two and replace the methanol in biodiesel with ethanol. Keith Keith, I am working on the Project you just mentioned above, among a few other things. It will be a combination Rape-seed Processing Plant, Ethanol from excess Sugar Beets, with process Energy supplied by waste wood sawmill byproducts. The Ethanol and Oil may be marketted separately, or combined into Biodiesel, whichever is more economically feasable, and will be subject to change with the market demands. Have you ever heard the analogy of trying to herd Cats? I am trying to combine 4 distinctly separate herds of Cats, and get them to move in the same direction at the same time, somewhat cooperatively. It isn't boring! Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
annoying way to get water out of BD was Re: [biofuel] Interesting way to get the water out of BD
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, studio53 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still confused- can you clear this up just one more time, please- I promise I'll write it down- is girl mark a guy or girl? I'll start by being a [EMAIL PROTECTED] Does it really matter? Pay attention to her thoughts and ideas, regardless of gender. I debate in several other Forums, and the Liberals feel a strong need to catagorize your thoughts and opinions based on Gender, Race, Religious background, Sexual Preference, Ethnicity, etc. That's why I use the 'Handle' I do. I prefer to have my ideas and thoughts evaluated and considered on the merits of my presentatins, not on any of the above criteria. They tend to attack the Messenger, and ignore the message. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Engine conversion
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Odiksx [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks alot for your info about converting gasoline engine to diesel engine. As a review; finding a diesel engine instead of converting is better... I think the Olds 350 and the Chevy 5.7 Diesel are 2 different engines that are being confused. The Chevy 5.7 Diesel was junk, but a friend found a use for several of them. He used the basic Diesel Engine, and installed Heads and Intake Manifold from a Gasoline engine, and had what he called a 'Bullet-proof 350'. I think he used 2 or 3 head gaskets stacked up, to lower to compression ratio. I can't give him the credit for the idea or the term. I think he got the idea from one of his very many Hot Rod magazines. He did sell a lot of them. The Diesels were very cheap in the junk yards, and intake manifolds from a wide variety of years would fit them. His current 'thing' is rebuilding 350 Chev Gasoline Engines using the crankshaft from a 400cid engine. That increases displacement to 383CI, and really increases the torque with the longer throw on the crankshaft. He installs these in 4X4 pickups for snowplowing and towing applications. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/XfSp7B/XlOFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: don't know about the gm's, but we used ether in sub zero temps to start our big trucks every morning. just a quick shot in the breather to get it turning. most starters can be overrun, so it may have been a fluke in your issue. Big Truck Diesels don't have Glow Plugs. His Suburban 6.5 does. NEVER use Starting Fluid and Glow Plugs at the same time! Glow Plugs with #2 Diesel Fuel are good to about 10F, without a block heater. You may be able to start down to 0F with #1 Diesel Fuel. Colder than that, you will need heat or Starting Fluid. -20F or colder will need both heat and Starting Fluid. Most Loggers in my area have a Hydraulic Hose quick-coupler inline in the Heater hose on their pickup engine. When starting cold Diesels, you pull up close, and couple connecting hoses to the engine from the heater on the pickup, and usually jumper cables to warm up the batteries. Within 20 minutes the Diesel is at operating temp without being started or cranked. It then starts easily without undue wear and tear on the starter. Watch the Oil Pressure Gauge! If no pressure reading within 30 seconds, shut it off, and heat the Oil pan with a Propane Torch until the Oil is thinned enough for the Oil Pump to pick it up. Synthetic Engine Oils are a wonderful invention and well worth the extra cost for extreme cold starting. Many Loggers don't work when the temp is below -20F, and few work if it is -40F. Productivity is down, and maintainance costs can go way up. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/XfSp7B/XlOFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Use of Renewable Energy Took a Big Fall in 2001
http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/12.10F.renewable.htm Use of Renewable Energy Took a Big Fall in 2001 By Matthew L. Wald Friday, 6 December, 2002 WASHINGTON, Dec. 6 -- Consumption of energy from renewable sources, like the sun, the wind and biological fuels, fell sharply in 2001, the Department of Energy has reported. The department attributed much of the decline to a drought that cut generation of hydroelectric power by 23 percent. Such variations are natural. But in a report last month, the department's Energy Information Administration also said solar equipment was being retired faster than new equipment was being built. Back in the late 70's and early 80's, we had very, very large support programs, said Fred Mayes, who handles data on renewable energy at the energy information agency. Those programs, begun after the loss of oil from Iran pushed the price to almost $40 a barrel, expired in the 1980's, and things went into the tank, Mr. Mayes said. Equipment from the boom years is wearing out, and the base of installed equipment is shrinking, he said. This is true even though shipments of new equipment have risen in the last few years, analysts say. The number of solar collectors, which gather the sun's heat for uses like warming swimming pools, has increased sharply in the last few years, including 34 percent in 2001 alone, the department said. A spokesman for the solar industry, Scott Sklar, agreed with that assessment. But by the Energy Department's estimate, the total amount of solar energy gathered has fallen three years in a row. The use of photovoltaic cells, which generate electricity with sunlight, is also growing. Domestic installations were up 80 percent last year, the department reported. Biomass, including burning of wood or similar renewable products to produce energy and the use of alcohol fuels, declined nearly 2 percent. The use of wind power grew more than 3 percent. Over all, consumption of renewable energy fell 12 percent to what the department said was the lowest level in more than 12 years, accounting for only 6 percent of the energy consumed in the country. Of the renewables, biomass accounted for 50.4 percent of the total and hydroelectric for 41.9 percent. The remainder was from the sun, the wind and geothermal sources. Many environmentalists say solar and wind power have the greatest potential for growth and for displacing fuels that cause pollution and are suspected of causing changes in the world's climate. The solar total is still very small; 36.3 megawatts of capacity were added in 2001. At that rate it would take 30 years to add the capacity of one large nuclear plant. For the first time since records have been kept, exports of solar cells declined in 2001. That occurred, Mr. Mayes said, because the companies that build the cells expanded production capacity in other countries. Solar cells are still too costly to compete with conventional power, but experts say they are increasingly used to supply small amounts of power in places where connecting to the grid would be costly. Mr. Mayes said he was surprised to find solar cells and batteries being used on the Strip in Las Vegas to provide power to light bus shelters. Although the area has electricity, installing solar cells was cheaper than digging up the sidewalks to put in power lines, he said. (In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: home heating with biofuels
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Aaron Ellringer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all. I'm trying to convince our state (Wisconsin, USA) renewable energy contracting/research firm to pursue biofuels in residential applications. If you orsomeone you know has used waste oil, fresh oil, and/or biodiesel to heat a residence(displacing fossil fuels) I would appreciate a contact. If you are aware of any researchprojects or demonstrations of such technologies, I would also appreciate your help. I can't assist with Bio-oil sources, but several manufacturers are making burners that use used engine Oil to produce space heat. I'm not aware of anyone using them for home heating, but many local Loggers use them to dispose of used engine oil from their equipment to heat their Shop areas. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
