Re: [biofuel] Syntroleum
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 23:27:07 -0400, you wrote: Has anyone seen this sight or know this product? http://www.syntroleum.com/ Opinion? -Arthur Their product is fossil-fuel based. I like the idea of Gas-To-Liquids (GTL) as far as it goes, but it's still, in the end, same-old, same-old fossil fuels. They put out this press release recently: http://media.integratir.com/synm/PressReleases/04052005CompanyExperts.pdf I went back and forth about it with a couple of people and decided not to post it here and elsewhere because in the end, I think they're greenwashing in the sense that, for example, they're inviting people to call them and ask their experts about clean fuels and emissions, but I strongly suspect they'd steer everyone away from answers such as biofuels, and toward their own answers. I don't have an investment-potential opinion about them, but my tentative view, as to whether they're part of cleaner energy, is that they're borderline-at-best, and if you are looking for truely green investments, you'd want to look elsewhere. It is something I've heard slightly disputed. Once in awhile there is some mention of using their product in fuel cells, so there is that link, and I've seen them mentioned on TV by talking heads in that context. But Wall Street still looks toward brown stocks, even when they want to think they're green, and that's how I see SYNM... as browner than the really green ones. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] GERMANY: Europeans' car preferences reduce fuel price shock
http://www.just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=44608 Very good article, I thought, bringing to our attention not only Europeans' differing reactions to fuel price hikes, but also related debatable issues, such as whether Hybrids or Hydrogen will really fly in Europe. GERMANY: Europeans' car preferences reduce fuel price shock 03 Jun 2004 Source: just-auto.com editorial team Europeans' preference for smaller cars and their embrace of fuel-sipping diesel engines mean high oil prices are not as much of a problem to car shoppers, compared with the US, especially when high taxes mask the impact of price changes at the pump, a Reuters report said. Because gas is so expensive here anyway, Europeans tend to drive around in smaller cars. I really don't think it's a major issue, Stephen Cheetham, an auto analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein Ltd, said of surging crude oil prices, according to the news agency. Analysis of 20 years of fuel prices, vehicle demand and stock return data yields little evidence that higher petrol prices are either good or bad for European auto stocks or car sales in the US and major European markets, he reportedly said. Renault executive vice president Georges Douin told Reuters last week that European manufacturers would escape damage given the popularity of diesel plus new speed limits in some places that were limiting fuel consumption. [etc.] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Video or Sound File of a Biofuel Making Class
Last week in Albuquerque my friends and I built a system (and made liter batches and a fullsize batch of fuel)- and someone made a bad-quality home video of the process. it's too low-quality to edit into something presentable for public use, but watching it made me realize that a video of one of the classes would be a good tool for the public. It'd be good if it were possible to make it available on the internet, though I'm not sure what this takes in terms of bandwidth or other downloading issues. While you were away, there was some further brainstorming about this in the groups, and some debate over DVD, VHS, etc. But my thought was that while that tech talk is often interesting, it got away a little from the point. I don't have experience with video, but have been doing amateur digital still photography for awhile now. My guess (not that educated, but slightly) is that, particularly since I'm not an expert, I try to err on the side of shooting in the highest possible resolution available to me. Not just a matter of getting an expensive camera, but also one strongly affected by lighting (outdoor makes my life easier with my cheap digi-cams), the experience of the person shooting, their familiarity with their camera-equipment, whether they've taken an extra bit of time to prepare, etc. Could this be done successfully perhaps in one of your classes put forth in a city with one or two fans, or class-attendees, who might be willing to trade you a video shoot (and edit) for the class fee for x number of people? Maybe some money would have to change hands. I don't know video and its costs. With still photography, once you shoot in your high res camera, if you are not incompetent, you can edit down to a much smaller downloadable-friendly file that most people can live with the compromises in quality. I prefer to try to edit down from a high res file, because if you start with a low-res file and don't like it, there's not much you can do about it. For video, this might be harder or impossible, depending on the length of the file. If, for the sake of discussion, you shoot two full days of classes (I don't see why not), say 16 hours of classes that you want to make available to people to download, the only way I can see this is if they were shrunk down to a very very small screen size and low resolution, with reasonable resolution for the sound side, and then the folks might be able to squeeze it on to a computer. If you were to edit for highlights, say making your file anywhere from 15 minutes to two hours, then of course your file size would shrink and you might even be able to provide higher quality. You could also provide a link to a point-and-click way or folks to order the video on DVDs or VHS. All of this is a ton of work, I think. If you want to avoid every last bit of headache (I certainly would), but wouldn't mind seeing the video get made, maybe a video-making profit-oriented person could be incentivized to do it all for you, without much hassle-to-you, and then just send you your part of the royalties. They could make some video downloadable for free (and you could write this into your agreement, to ensure that not too much is held back as they try to calculate what to charge for and not charge for), but cripple it enough to make it somewhat desireable to pay the whole shebang for a DVD or VHS covering things in greater depth. You could also record just sound, which would not require all these problems and could easily be done. I just think it's a bit hard to get an idea of things with just sound. It might be easier to record video and then separate out the sound file and a few low-res still photos. As far as what Murdoch says about it potentially causing a drop in attendance at my workshops, I don't think that's a concern at all (and it would be fine if it did anyway, I'm not doing this to make money). The main problem for me is just the time involved in putting together a quality video sometime, and the large amount of work that goes into editing something like that (video production skill is something I completely lack and am not interested in learning at this time...) Anyway I'll put some thought into making this happen someday. I don't have any time to deal with it for the next couple of months but will keep my ears open for some way to make an internet video available. mark At 08:00 AM 5/24/2004 -0700, you wrote: On Sun, 23 May 2004 22:03:55 -, you wrote: Hey Keith, After lurking and occationally posting on this list, I gotta agree with you guys about Fryer to the Fuel Tank. I use it mostly these days for doing test batches. But, considering the wealth of info you and Todd Swearington and Girlmark have, you ought to collectively write something that would at least give Fryer to the Fuel Tank a run for its money. 'specially considering your background in journalism. And it would be a great way to help support the work you guy
[biofuel] authority complexes
Hakan: I have also been accused of having an authority complex in fighting mainstream opinion and policies. A good thing to be accused of, perhaps. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:19:58 +0200, you wrote: Matt, Please, At 01:49 03/06/2004, you wrote: I am glad to hear that you are not full of hate (you could not be all bad... you are into biodiesel!). My thing is http://energysavingnow.com/ and why I got caught in biofuels, was very much by admiration of what Keith is doing to actively help the developing countries, in many more ways than getting Americans to make biodiesel. I have gone through a couple of test batches, just to see if it was that simple and because I like to know what people are talking about. Made it simple for me, with SVO and by following instructions exactly, so I still do not have had the problems that many seems to get. This leaves me with a feeling that I do not know enough anyway, other than it is workable and viable, which was what I wanted to know in the first place. This about where I am (but still ahead of me). Sometimes I take a class or try an activity to verify what I want to take away from it. My guess is that, in the unlikely event I were to soon have enough money for a car, I might try one that is already pre-outfitted by a qualified outfit to run on SVO. This just might be the right solution for me, at that time. I could also purchase biodiesel at this or that station. But this is not to say that I think making ones own fuel is not very interesting or a desireable activity. Just something that I don't want to do right now, in part out of respect for some of the difficulties that I think would come up. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Re[2]: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 16:47:56 -0400, you wrote: Hallo MM, The problem we have here is twofold. First, just as the phrase national security hides a lot of sins (so to speak), the phrase anti-semite intimidates and silences a lot of tongues and pens. This is why there is *no comment* from the all-of-a-sudden too-busy gallery when he brings forth a statement such as the above. It is all too common for anyone, particularly someone with a name such as mine, who voices any criticism of Israel regardless of whether the criticism is deserved or not to be smeared and marginalized as an anti-semite, bigot, nazi, whatever. If a Jew happens to be the one doing the criticism then they are promptly labelled a self-hating Jew. This happens not only even, but particularly if the criticism is deserved. People have lost their livlihoods by saying the wrong thing even if the wrong thing happened to be true. Yes. I think that this Protocols mention, and having an explanation asked of me, put me over the top. Normally I would not make an accusation of a comment being inherently anti-semitic (or even bother with the topic, or even think it), but my understanding was (perhaps no longer) that invocation of the Protocols is generally accepted to be just nonsense and that it should be met with disdain as signalling inherently racist nonsense. I think I failed to examine this assumption. [...] Murdoch this was not something personal to you but general to the list. I thought you had it right with your *no comment* comment. Thanks, but outside of your one lone opinion, it apparently warrants a massive negative response. Things like this have to be faced squarely and honestly and the emotional baggage which normally accompanies topics such as this. Well, thanks for your opinions. And now my friends, sorry for the length (sort of). :o) Happy Happy, Gustl Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:05:55 -0500, you wrote: Murdoch, What I mean is that generally you seem glad to have the topic raised, and that generally some of Luc's comments points seem to be agreed-with, by yourself and-or by Todd. That's incorrect. What I did state and should have been inferred by anyone with eyes not clouded with fear, hate or rage was that the ensuing personal assaults were uncalled for. Thank you for taking the time to make this correction. I have just now re-read through your posts on this topic and see that what you're specifically doing is responding to the personal assaults, as you say. As a result of such expression, those who were so wantonly careless in their intent would choose to paint anyone who disagrees with their obnoxious behavior as being for or against a person or any practice that was mentioned.or alluded to. That's ignorance of a rather high order (or disorder if you like), upon which no one should have to expend the light of day. Todd Swearingen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Interesting Bio-Energy LLC type investment-Business Model
http://lilblumarble.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Whence The Fuel For The Indy 500, NASCAR, Etc?
Brendan: Thanks for the various points. The news about the TurboDiesel at Le Mans this year makes me want to watch it June 12-13 (not many races have two days instead of one). http://www.lemans.org/univers_sport/24hauto/live/index_gb.html I wouldn't look at Indy or NASCAR to provide great advancements in fuel/energy technology. That equates to looking at the Republican Party to provide the great leadership in environmental protection! I think there are times when I try to bring attention to a hypocrisy or to a problem, when I don't necessarily expect immediate direct action, but I think good can come from opening the discussion. In the case of both Indy and NASCAR, there's a lot of flag-waving (literally) and I think it would be good to press home the issue of whether or not these series are really doing as much as fans might reasonably expect to advance the various flag-waving-connected causes. They may not realize that while their patriotic feelings are stirred, by some of the spectacle and fanfare, the car-designers and race organizers who are putting on the show are doing much less than is possible -- to improve the vehicles sold to American Consumers, to make America more fuel-independent, to bring innovation-related jobs to their communities. These might be some of the effects of subtle rules alterations which encouraged more innovation-relevant race efforts. Thanks for going over the differences in costs associated with changing fuels versus changes in cars. I've always thought that a racing series I would want to watch might be one where teams are limited by the number of Megajoules they can have to go a given distance... and then we could see who gets there the fastest. But I have to agree that particular approach would not be mainstream-exciting so much as a very interesting academic exercise. You're barking up the wrong tree. Unfortunately, F1 continues to slide toward a heavily spec-rule based system, like the previously mentioned series. F1 may continue to be a leader in materials technology, but the rules require pump gasoline, to keep them more like consumer cars (laughable, isn't it)! I would look to the sports cars (Le Mans series) for emerging technologies. The recent consumer availability of direct injection (DI) engines can be traced directly back to the use of such engines by Audi, which to some extent helped secure their previous victories. 24-hour races like Le Mans also offer a much better test-bed for consumer technology. Without DI, the Bently cars that won last years race wouldn't have been able to compete with the Audis. The reason: fuel consumption. About two more pit stops for fuel would have been required without DI, enough to allow the third place Audi to take the lead with their DI car. This year we'll see for the first time since the 50's, a diesel car. Perhaps a biodiesel car could be seen in races in the near future. I wouldn't look at any of the strictly American series to push for this, there is too much emphasis on equivalency in this country, because American fans want to see the best driver win, not the best team win. Changing fuels across the board is a much more difficult process than allowing a single team to take a chance and prove that something is a good idea. That's exactly what happened with the DI technology, and needs to happen with alternative fuel technology. Indy and NASCAR rules just don't allow for this to easily happen. The following link is about the diesel Le Mans car: http://www.calumlockie.com/news/report30.html --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Race cars could also run on biodiesel or on Vegetable Oil (Fatty Mehtyl Esthers or Trigliceryides? dunno the chemistry). Biodiesel has a much higher net energy ratio than ethanol. But I agree completely on E85 and ethanol. As to changing the cars to run the fuels, at these speeds, I think it's irrelevant if we give up a few mph or a few hp to make the cars more innovative and try running them on domestic fuels, for the sake of the innovative experience. The Indy cars seemingly have to go through enormous efforts to keep their speeds down. What's the difference if we lose a few horsepower, if we can use fuels that originate in the U.S. rather than elsewhere, and whose use makes excellent contribution to local jobs and research on better consumer cars? And why shouldn't the development of better cars through racing also include more fuel-conserving cars as well as cars which go faster and more durably and reliably? As the lower mpg of methanol and ethanol, compared to gasoline, I think this is nearly irrelevant. To me, the goal is to improve Miles Per Joule (or Megajoules because Joules are too small to use readily). As best I can tell, almost the only reason I can see that mpg is relevant, is in the sense that cars and fuels need to be devised which can refuel reasonably quickly and travel reasonably
[biofuel] H2 MJ/kg
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem99/chem99525.htm Hello I Have an hydrogen question Can you please tell me about the energy density, in terms of the energy available per gram or litre. Burning one mole, 2.015 g, of hydrogen in air releases 57.796 kilocalories. Richard E. Barrans Jr., Ph. D. Chemistry Division Argonne National Laboratory This answer seems to give clear objective numbers, so I'm going to try to work with it, and then go back to some less-exact answers I found on other websites. I have 57.796 kilocalories of Energy for .002015 kilograms of mass. What I want to do is translate to MJ/kg, as this is the unit of measurement in which we compared the other alt fuels, for perspective.
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 19:49:39 +0900, you wrote: Hello Arthur You lose! I suppose it's no big surprise that a thread such as this should hit Godwin's Law, but it sure didn't take you long. [...] Whether you agree with it or not, Luc provided some analysis and some references and links, which you dismiss as proven scams and hate literature and liken them to Mein Kampf. It just doesn't work that way here. We're all entitled to our opinions, and entitled to express them too, but when you're attempting to discredit someone else's view, which he's provided some substantiation for, it needs a little more than just an opinion and a contemptuous slap-aside. So either add some substance to it, or don't expect to be treated with any respect. I've read through a few of Luc's comments and found them worth some consideration. However, I haven't read much, in part because of this, from May 27: Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:31:28 - A Clean Break - Strategy for Securing the Realm. Pay attention to the signatories. http://www.irmep.org/Policy_Briefs/3_27_2003_Clean_Break_or_Dirty_War .html There's still more to it than that, but lest I be labelled a conspiracy nut it shall remain as such :), but then I don't really care who labels me with what so here goes anyway: In conjunction with the above Clean Break document written by the main instigators of the Iraq invasion we pony it up to another much maligned document whose authenticity was declared a forgery by a Swiss court, but then that judgement was overturned as unsubstantiated but it is only the original denigration that is publicised for obvious propaganda value; the document of course is The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion outlining a world control strategy whom some have theorised was actually originally written by none other than Myer Amschtel Rothschild when he was setting up his world banking empire. http://www.usa-the-republic.com/illuminati/zion.html is where to go read it. It would seem odd that a forgery (normally a copy of an original) would hold information that is now common fact in the world we live in. A coincidence? Does the sun rise everyday by chance? As I am not a scholar on this document, but was more offended, as I said, by the manner in which the topic of the document was raised, I'd like to ask if anyone here has any response to this analysis of Luc's. If Luc is to be praised so mightily for raising topics that take some analysis and effort and (arguably) courage in the face of established arguments, then I wonder that there is *no comment* from the all-of-a-sudden too-busy gallery when he brings forth a statement such as the above. MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
I've no choice but to work with the two quotes you've provided, one of them from me, in which I did not as you allege praise Luc mightily nor even unmightily for anything, nor have I yet expressed any opinion on the substance of any of his posts. I haven't noticed anyone praising Luc for raising these topics. I fail to see how you can extract this from my quote above, or from anything I've said about it. My point was clear, Luc provided some substantiation for his views, Arthur provided no substantiation at all for his highly contemptuous dismissal of them, and that doesn't fly here, whether it's in discussing Judaism and Zionism or whether unwashed biodiesel can damage your motor. Please explain what you mean. What I mean is that generally you seem glad to have the topic raised, and that generally some of Luc's comments points seem to be agreed-with, by yourself and-or by Todd. If I have erroneously spoken for you then I apologize. Maybe I should have said that he is being strongly supported at least in his right to continue the topic. However, enough time and effort seems to be put forth by you in responding to Luc's detractors that I was surprised by the lack of any response to his introduction into the conversation of what I take to be stands-out-like-a-sore-thumb low-level anti-semitic drivel. His substantiation included this low-level drivel. Maybe it's not drivel. Maybe I'm mistaken and it's genius. established arguments, then I wonder that there is *no comment* from the all-of-a-sudden too-busy gallery when he brings forth a statement such as the above. What nonsense! Aren't you doing rather the same thing? You don't owe me or anyone else your time, and likewise, I certainly do not regard myself as owing anyone in this group a single second of my time, with the possible exception that there is some implicit agreement to make an effort to follow up sometimes in a mutual conversation, and further there are generally accepted and I think valuable principles of politesse, civility, friendliness and I guess dialectic standards by which I mean we try to hold ourselves to some sort of standard for good thinking. It seemed to me a little bizarre that Luc made this statement and got little or no response, other than excoriation of those who were driven to the point of being maddened by him. While being maddened is not an excuse for, in some areas, poor argumentation, I did not think it inappropriate to call attention to what I thought was a very problematic statement on Luc's part. I think that I should not have implied that it's a matter of you or anyone else owing time to devote to that comment. Since I am not that willing to study the matter, and figure out whether the Protocols, and the way the topic was introduced, are properly dismissed by me as a clear symptom of nonsense, I think I was trying to get away with seeing if someone could please respond on that point. Since you apparently think my effort to get away with that has been nonsense, then I won't try further. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: [evworld] Whence The Fuel For The Indy 500, NASCAR, Etc?
Very handy list, thanks. At a glance, I'd like to find out the numbers for H2, and as to the fuel cells, the important number is the one for the fuel, not the cell, in my view though it is useful to know the weight of the engine or other energy conversion device, particularly for certain applications. For example, a car engine carries not only its own weight and all attendant machinery, but the weight of its fuel and all attendant machinery, over the lifetime of the vehicle. This has a significant effect on the lifetime energy-usage of the device (car). I prefer the way your lists are done (energy per unit mass) to the other simplified direction (energy per unit volume at some sort of generally defined conditions for temperature pressure, etc.) in part because it's more scientific (both energy and mass are objectively precisely defined without much fanfare especially if we do not confuse mass with weight), but I do think that studying both is important for full perspective. For example, #2 Diesel is generally more energy dense than gasoline per unit volume, although it is apparently (from the list you give) slightly less energy dense per unit mass. And though Natural Gas is apparently very energy dense per unit mass, I doubt that per unit volume it has nearly the density of some of these other fuels, unless it is compressed to a very strong extent, or liquified (similar comments probably go for Hythane and Hydrogen). Aside from H2, I'd like to see numbers for DME, Vegetable Oil, Hythane. MM On Mon, 31 May 2004 16:59:48 -0500, you wrote: murdoch wrote: Both Methanol and Ethanol are somewhere around 70 or 80% energy density of gasoline. Close enough, I think. Battery electric fuel is not as energy dense as any of these liquid fuel, though I haven't checked figures. Pasted below are some comparisons of energy density to mass in MegaJoules per kilogram (MJ/kg) for various forms and storage devices. Additional information is welcomed. Table 2. A Comparison of Different Fuel Lower Heat Values (LHV) for Burning Different Sources of Energy http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/cl3019 53.18 MJ/kg Natural Gas 46.37 MJ/kg Propane 43.80 MJ/kg Gasoline 42.80 MJ/kg Diesel (#2) 37.80 MJ/kg Biodiesel 37.00 MJ/kg Fuel Oil (#1) 26.70 MJ/kg Ethanol 24.00 MJ/kg Coal 20.93 MJ/kg Coal (Sub-bituminous) 20.90 MJ/kg Methanol http://web.archive.org/web/20020713201640/http://www.geog.umd.edu/homepage/courses/jboberg/units.htm 19.97 MJ/kg Flax Straw (dry) 19.80 MJ/kg Wood Pellets 17.86 MJ/kg Wheat Straw (dry) 17.50 MJ/kg *Corn Stover (dry) 16.20 MJ/kg *Shelled corn (15 percent moisture) 15.43 MJ/kg Flax straw (20 percent moisture) 15.00 MJ/kg Wood (15 percent moisture) 13.74 MJ/kg Wheat straw (20 percent moisture) BATTERIES 0.396 - 0.576 MJ/kg Lithium-Ion 0.216 - 0.432 MJ/kg Nickel-Metal-Hydride 0.162 - 0.288 MJ/kg Nickel-Cadmium 0.108 - 0.180 MJ/kg Lead-Acid http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-3.htm ALTERNATIVE BATTERIES 0.0108 - 0.108 MJ/kg Ultracapacitors 0.0207 MJ/kg Compressed air tanks 1.39MJ/kg Superflywheel - Buckytubes give 10x this amount! 1.97MJ/kg Fuel cells 304K pg 14 of 29 PDF http://www.inf.ethz.ch/vs/events/dag2002/program/lectures/starner_2.pdf Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Bush's Biodiesel Mower
Exerpt from this week's evworld.com: Bush's Biodiesel Mower Just so I don't come off seeming too mean spirited, there is this piece of good news out of Crawford. I don't know if the President played much of a role in the decision to buy a new diesel mower for his Texas home, but according to a recent email from an EV World reader, his foreman, Ken Englebrecht, is burning biodiesel And that's not the only alternative fuel vehicle on the President's retreat. His Ford pickup runs on propane. I had a chance to meet Ken and see the presidential truck at the 2002 Clean Cities national convention in Oklahoma City. It's certainly encouraging to see that someone in the Bush Adminstration takes alternative fuels seriously. Maybe Dubya should consider appointing Ken Englebrecht run the Department of Energy. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 11:37:11 +0200, you wrote: Arthur, I am puzzled, have looked through the thread and have large difficulties to find any I hate the Jews in it. I find some interesting ideological and theological facts in it, but expressed in a respectful and objective way. I find no reasons for this nobody likes us postings. They would be more interesting without this below the belt Lucifer things. Hakan I haven't read many posts in this (or other) threads that I entirely agree with, or entirely disagree with. 1. With respect to your response to Arthur's comments, I agree with you that he detracted from his own comments by descending into his personal diatribe. 2. On the other hand I was a little relieved to hear Arthur question Luc's raising of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I stopped reading most of Luc's comments directly not only when he raised this, but given the manner in which he did so, and was disappointed in the group that this and perhaps a few other of his comments were not challenged more strongly. This is not to dismiss everything out-of-hand that Luc has said. If someone wishes to take his comments on a point-by-point basis and separate what they think is the bad from the good, that's their affair. But I do not have much time, and reading his ham-handed attempt to insert that particular topic into what are probably in-need-of-discussion areas was a signal to me that my time could be better spent elsewhere, and if we care about the overall controversial topic, then I thought I might find better reading of it elsewhere. 2A): With respect to the issue of being on the lookout for a I hate the Jews comment, I don't think that a hater or irrational-agenda non-transparent-agenda person (of any sort) is going to make it that easy for us. While you may not have intended for that method to be taken so literally, I think it is worth using your comment as a launching point for spelling this out to be aware that not everyone is going to say everything they think in precisely the terms they think it particularly if it could have them banned or get them ostracized or cause their remarks to be less read. 3. I tend to agree with Keith and Todd and others that generally the unconditional-support-for-Israel by the American Government and Fourth Estate is overdue for public discourse, though I may disagree with them on many or all of the answers that we get or how we should pose the questions. 4. Religion: I regard one's personal religious or philosophic beliefs as arguably the most important aspect of one's life. Others may not agree, explicitly or in their hearts. Some may regard their political orientation (e.g. Conservative, Social Democrat, whatever), or their so-called race (Chinese, White, some variant, whatever... is there even scientifically such a thing if we are all the human race?) or their citizenship (French, Chinese, Nigerian, whatever) as the de facto thing they spent the most time thinking about. Some hobbies or interests may even be elevated to near-supremely-important-to-us status. Others may have a different way of approaching these important questions, speaking about their work, their loved ones, their wealth, their health, etc. But I think some would agree that one's belief system and following it (for want of better words) is the most important thing in one's life. Most of us 6,000,000,000+ on this planet believe that we choose this system, and have the right to change our minds and-or assert at some point when we become adults what we are, and-or what we are not. Some of us us have personal beliefs (or anti-beliefs) which do not fit so readily into the conventional labels frequently provided in press discussions of these issues. I don't know the numbers in part because the mainstream press discussions are so infrequent. But it is not just a matter of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Shinto-ism, Other. That Other may be much bigger and far more robust and diverse than one might glean from such a listing. It may be very non-Theistic for some (including myself). Furthermore, of those who may identify themselves with the prior more well-defined listings, many may or may not in reality practice or believe or be knowledgeable about them. There are many who might have mixed thoughts, or not thoughts, or some variants on those themes. In some countries (including America I think) we generally try to practice the courtesy of allowing a person to say I am such-and-such religion, or I do not believe in such-and-such-religion although we often get sloppy about it (sometimes labeling them with the putative religion of their parents whether they like it or not, for example), and the person speaking may often have a complex mixture of thoughts which may make his or her own answer either an oversimplification of their own beliefs, or they may be compelled to say that they cannot be categorized. Or they may not
[biofuel] Whence The Fuel For The Indy 500, NASCAR, Etc?
As we watch today's famous Indy 500 race, I had cause to revisit a question I've had many years, which is to get straight where the fuel comes from. Last I checked, Indy 500 cars were using Methanol, though over recent years there has been some upheaval in Indy Technology. In Nascar, I believe they're using high-octane gasoline. There is a fair amount of well-intended patriotism from fans of these racing series, particularly during the Indy 500, which takes place only one day before U.S. Citizens take a day to remember those who have fallen in wars. Can we not raise the question of where the fuel comes from to power these cars? Can an effort not be made, by the folks who fund these racing efforts, that they question whether the fuel for their cars could be made, entirely and completely, in the U.S could even be a fuel whose technology and market position are of a more modern and advanced nature and whose derivation could help in some way to ease U.S. Energy Importation Dependencies and to ease some very real ongoing U.S. Environmental Concerns? I do not mean to imply that the costly nature of racing series of all sorts is to be dismissed, but it's not clear to me why other more home-grown fuels couldn't be considered. If they were, it would perhaps strengthen the claim, often made but only (I think) sometimes justified, that racing helps carmakers and fuel makers get valuable experience that helps them build better cars and fuels. MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: [evworld] Whence The Fuel For The Indy 500, NASCAR, Etc?
by race car teams trying to produce fuel from the waste manure. Then I'd like to see the sticker on the side of the car say, Runs on cow S**t. :) Sometimes my mind wanders a little too far. :) Dave Goldstein wrote: On Sun, 30 May 2004 18:36:07 -0700 murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As we watch today's famous Indy 500 race, I had cause to revisit a question I've had many years, which is to get straight where the fuel comes from. Last I checked, Indy 500 cars were using Methanol, though over recent years there has been some upheaval in Indy Technology. In Nascar, I believe they're using high-octane gasoline. There is a fair amount of well-intended patriotism from fans of these racing series, particularly during the Indy 500, which takes place only one day before U.S. Citizens take a day to remember those who have fallen in wars. Can we not raise the question of where the fuel comes from to power these cars? Can an effort not be made, by the folks who fund these racing efforts, that they question whether the fuel for their cars could be made, entirely and completely, in the U.S . . . and whose derivation could help in some way to ease U.S. Energy Importation Dependencies and to ease some very real ongoing U.S. Environmental Concerns? . . . Yes, the Indy 500 cars run on Methanol, which is derived from natural gas that probably came from North America (either the US or Canada.) Methanol has a fairly high octane but lower energy content than motor gasoline, as I recall -- which means lower miles per gallon. It is also fairly corrosive to standard automotive fuel systems, especially rubber and plastic parts. I will never forget the time back in the 80's that I was running *Gasohol* (10 percent Methanol blend with 90 percent gasoline) in my Toyota Celica, and it *melted* the aftermarket plastic fuel filter during a road trip! Methanol also causes cold starting problems, and most damaging of all, when pure methanol catches fire, the flames are nearly invisible! Corn-based Ethanol has its drawbacks as well, but if you are so disposed, you may enjoy this CBS Indy 500 article from 11/03: http://www.sportsline.com/autoracing/story/6797217 Ethanol producers want Indy cars to use corn-based fuel Interestingly, the push for this appears to be coming from *politicians and lobbyists,* rather than energy experts -- which should immediately give one pause to reflect! ;-) They freely admit that it is all about *image,* and business oppor- tunities for farmers. But they never seem to address net energy concerns -- especially, how much petroleum and petroleum byproducts -- as well as other energy inputs from NG and electri- city -- are used in the fertilizers, tractor fuel, processing, distillation and transportation of the Ethanol to end users. The truth is that finding a suitable liquid-based domestic fuel that could easily replace foreign oil-based gasoline and diesel fuel, is NOT an easy thing to do. Personally, I am hoping for the day when the Indy 500 will use advanced Hybrid vehicles with *quick charging* (150 kW+) capabilities in the pits. Now *that's* something that could truly revolutionize America's driving habits and offer net energy and environmental benefits to boot! Regards, Dave Goldstein President, EVA/DC and Program Development Associates Gaithersburg, MD -- Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Cooking Outside, Energy Use, and the Human Enjoyment aspect
Wendell: It took me a little while to understand what you were saying (my fault), but one thing was you were just trying to take into account the energy and resources lost to opening and closing the door. Also you have emphasized that we not forget the human enjoyment element, something I think I alluded to in one of my earlier posts. Some folks may have a financial and a human-behaviour (learning) investment in using their indoor kitchen, and for a variety of reasons may find it difficult to transition to cooking outside. I agree with your points, in this sense: 1. On the side of accounting for energy use in cooking, whether outside or inside, we should be scientific and exact, even if others would call us geeks or overly-detailed. So, even if Lauren's quick-calculations hold up, and I think they are interesting, this does not invalidate the importance of at least raising the issue, so we can go over it. Likewise, I think there is fertile territory here for discussion on a variety of fronts, such as calorie use (exercise?) of people going in and out, not being as close to their spices and cooking elements, etc. 2. I agree 100% that the human element and all that goes with it (time, convenience, expense, personal preferences differing with others' whether they understand or not) is certainly a critical part of all home design, and of this 'debate'. So, I think there is fertile territory for further discussion here. I think that if we can define some of the pros and cons of taking the extra expense to create a robust outdoor cooking area (not just the cooker, but access to a sink, perhaps storage for some frequently-used items so one does not constantly have to go indoors), etc., then that would be interesting. I've always thought there are many activities, at home and in businesses, that could be performed somewhat outdoors, depending on the preferences of the person, and a wide variety of issues having to do with climate, exposure to sun, etc. These activities include eating, cooking, working on a computer, creating art and gosh-knows-what-else. I also think it would be interesting to do some more calculations of comparative energy use. While I do not have experience cooking outdoors on a grill to any great extent, one great advantage to me I think is that it would be a primitive way for me to use biofuels, slightly, without having to go to a lot of trouble to use them in my car. If I set up a charcoal grill, then wouldn't some of the grease serve to burn and further cook the food? If I cook indoors and drain the grease off and throw it away, is this not then wasted energy? Maybe we could put some very general numbers on this. I'm not presently going to make fuel out of it, I don't know anyone convenient to me who does, I don't have a fireplace (yet) and I am just simply curious how much of its own cooking fuel a chicken or a slab of beef comes with, even if it's only minor percentage points. Probably there are one or two other options a person has (composting?) but should we count outdoor grill cooking as biofuel use? I spoke the other day to my brother and he was on a cell phone and arrived home to see a housemate having to deal with minor grease fires springing up from cooking chicken on a grill in Florida. Too much energy? Where you have problems with too much energy, shouldn't this be a way for us to see that the energy could be put to use rather than just putting out the fire? (A frequent thought since I live in the America of the Republocrats, ... the land where we have too much energy lying around in the form of wood fuel threatening to catch fire, but virtually no push on to burn a prudent amount of that energy for human use, while simultaneously getting rid of the fire hazard.) I liked the point made by Kim and Garth as to the cooking conveniences they have set up for themselves outside. I think for me this partly falls under the heading of the way maybe some homes 'should' be designed in the future, even if some homes in the present will miss being retrofitted for this sort of thing. There is such a wealth of design modifications that could be made to homes, to make them greener and more efficient and better to live in, that I do not think the conversation would ever end. MM On Wed, 26 May 2004 12:46:14 -0400, you wrote: Dear Laren, Thank you for your thoughtful reply. The interior moisture is almost always lower in one's home with central air running. In my case, in humid New Jersey, I have a dehumidifier running in the utility room to take some of the load off the central air. I stand on my primary statement that ease or joy should govern this choice rather than the close call for energy savings in this instance. Regards, Wendell LarenCorie wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote; It seems to me that it is better to cook where you find the most ease or joy. It occurs to me that if the outside temperature is 90 F and the inside is
[biofuel] Sulfur Shuts 500 Shell, Texaco Stations
Some lessons here for how a Big Oil Business reacts to inadvertent dissemination of a 'bad batch'? I don't know what the lesson is, only that I'm reading what's happening. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=509ncid=718e=8u=/ap/20040529/ap_on_bi_ge/sulfur_in_gas By ALAN SAYRE, AP Business Writer NEW ORLEANS - Just before the heavy-driving Memorial Day weekend, more than 500 Shell and Texaco stations in the South have stopped selling gasoline because of high sulfur levels that can ruin vehicle fuel gauges and make an empty tank appear full. The damage done by the bad gasoline could cause some drivers to run out of gas unexpectedly. Also, car owners may have to replace their fuel gauges ÷ a repair job that can easily cost $400 to $600. The tainted gasoline originated at the Motiva Enterprises refinery in Norco, La., according to Shell Oil Co. Motiva is the refining arm of Shell in the East and South. Motiva supplied the gasoline to both Shell and Texaco. The refinery said it is investigating how the high sulfur levels occurred. Sulfur is naturally present in crude oil; some of it is supposed to be removed during refining. As of Friday, 119 Shell and Texaco stations were closed in the New Orleans area, and 400 were not selling fuel in Florida, said Shell spokeswoman Helen Bow. The problem occurred at an especially bad time for gasoline stations, which had been expecting brisk sales, at high prices, ahead of the holiday weekend. The pumps have been off since Wednesday, said Sri Guntaka, a cashier at a Shell station in New Orleans. We've lost a lot of customers, hundreds of them. It's very bad. Gas tanks have a float ball that rises and falls with the fuel level. An electrical system reads the float ball's level and transmits the information to the dashboard fuel gauge. The system uses silver electrical contacts, which can be quickly corroded by sulfur. The problem came to light this week after drivers began complaining about inaccurate fuel gauge readings. Besides the New Orleans area, problem fuel turned up in shipments to Miami, Tampa, Sarasota and Fort Lauderdale, Shell said. Shell is replacing the gasoline at its stations. But Bow did not have an estimate of when all the stations would be pumping again. Don Redman, a spokesman for Louisiana AAA, said that before the shutdown was announced, he fielded several calls from the auto club's members complaining that their gas readings were way off. People have been looking at their odometers because of the high prices and saying, `Hey, wait a minute,' Redman said. Shell said it had received 1,800 queries and 825 claims from people who said their fuel gauges had been affected. Mark Hebert, who lives in Luling, said he filled up at a Shell station on Monday, and 200 miles of driving later, the gauge on his 2002 Impala still read full. I just know it has to be between a quarter and a half full at this point, said Hebert, who submitted a claim to Shell and planned to take his car in next week for a replacement gauge. Guy Valvis, owner of an auto repair shop in Metairie, said he normally handles about two gauge replacements a year. I've fixed three or four here in the last week, and I've got two in here right now, he said Friday. Valvis said the repair job entails draining the fuel and removing the gas tank. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] High Fuel Costs Put Focus on Renewable Energy
I knew there was a reason we kept Sen. Byrd around. I like the last paragraph: We have unnecessarily endeavored to treat the symptoms and not the core problem for far too long, said Senator Robert C. Byrd (D-W.Va.) in a speech to the Senate last week. A serious energy efficiency program, bolstered by the promotion of renewable energy and other clean home-grown energy sources, provides a compass point for a U.S. energy strategy. This story also includes Bill Ford going on about game-changing technologies, so you have to put up with that Political Buzzword crud from the company that sold Think and wanted to crush not only the cars but get rid of the factory. As other companies like GM and Toyota carry on with their alt-fuel-car-crushing, I think of this as destroying the evidence, particularly as it is not accompanied by by production of expensive replacement EVs for those who might have wanted to pay the price. No matter. Years ago, some voiced that Hybrids weren't important. Now we hear that hybrids have their increasingly strong place. I think years from now we'll start to see some plug-in propulsion on the road, even though in the past we heard there was allegedly insufficient demand. Then they'll say but the demand increased knowing *damn* well that to some extent it was always there, but they played a game of: Get-away-with-it-for-decades, then blather on about 'game-changing'. MM http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=585e=4u=/nm/20040527/sc_nm/energy_renewables_dc Thu May 27, 3:05 PM ET Add Science - Reuters to My Yahoo! By Gelu Sulugiuc NEW YORK (Reuters) - With fuel prices at record levels, U.S. consumers are once again turning their attention to more efficient cars, companies are investing in renewable energy and government programs are encouraging conservation. The trend mimics the 1970s, when record high oil prices led Americans to trade in their gas guzzlers for smaller foreign cars -- but this time the move is more high-tech. The biggest advances in the renewable fuels revolution are hybrid cars, hydrogen fuel and solar and wind power. With gasoline prices reaching beyond $2 per gallon... hybrid vehicles are catching more consumers' attention, Prudential analyst Michael Bruynesteyn said. Gas-electric hybrids accounted for only 0.26 percent of the 16.7 million cars and trucks sold last year in the United States. But sales have increased 36 percent so far this year, according to research firm RL Polk Co., and Japan's Toyota Motor Corp. (news - web sites) decided to ship 47,000 of its Prius hybrids to the United States, up from the 36,000 originally planned for 2004. [etc.] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Oil and Israel
Prince Turki al-Faisal, ambassador to Britain and Ireland, told the Irish Independent newspaper Washington's stated aims in going to war in Iraq masked a more cynical reality. No matter how exalted the aims of the U.S. in that war, in the final analysis it was a colonial war very similar to the wars conducted by the ex-colonial powers when they went out to conquer the rest of the world ..., Prince Turki said. John Kerry, ever Mr. Cautious (if only I can stay two points to the left of Bush I can win), suggested that oil might have had something do with the invasion, too. Kerry, who's constantly bashing the Saudis, didn't exactly line up with Prince Turki. And he didn't exactly sound like an anti-imperialist, either. But he did suggest that oil was a factor. In a Washington Times piece entitled Kerry hints at link between oil, Iraq war, the Times reports: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040524-103200-9250r.htm Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry yesterday suggested that America's dependence on foreign oil is the major reason the United States went to war with Iraq. A strong America begins at home-with energy independence from the Middle East. Let's ensure that no young American soldier has to fight and die because of our dependence on foreign oil, the Massachusetts senator said. I'd like to point out that there are some substantial differences in trying to make the case that America's oil dependencies have 'led' inexorably to certain events, and to claiming that, specifically and simplistically, America was simply trying to take oil. They are not necessarily the same claim. I would be very much in favor of examining the first point and trying to figure it out and examine the issue of causality. As to the second, I question it, though I guess it's possible. The author of this article, though, leaves little or no room for the idea that there could be a difference, so the conversation and the article to me becomes far less worth my while. Of course there were no weapons of mass destruction. Israel's intelligence, Mossad, knows what's going on in Iraq. They are the best. They have to know. Actually, around the time of the start of the invasion of Iraq, Israeli Intelligence, I saw in one news report, stated that WMD or other weapons (I don't recall how it was put) were being moved to Syria. I've never seen this mentioned before or since. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biomass Could Reduce CO2 Emissions, Report Says
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=585e=2u=/nm/20040527/sc_nm/environment_biomass_dc Science - Reuters Biomass Could Reduce CO2 Emissions, Report Says 1 hour, 53 minutes ago Add Science - Reuters to My Yahoo! BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Using biomass, a type of fuel made of materials such as wood and manure, instead of coal to generate electricity could lower the world's carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions and create jobs, a report said Thursday. The World Wide Fund for Nature, which wrote the report with the European Biomass Industry Association, said in a statement that production of biomass would create hundreds of thousands of jobs while helping to reduce CO2, which contributes to global warming. The report indicated that this could reduce emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2), the main global warming gas, by about 1,000 million tons each year -- a figure equivalent to the combined annual emissions of Canada and Italy, the statement said. Biomass currently provides one percent of industrialized countries' power needs but could provide 15 percent by 2020, according to the report. A renewable energy source, biomass is made from agricultural and forest products such as animal waste, straw or sugar cane. The European Union (news - web sites) is pushing for renewable energy sources such as biomass, wind power and solar energy to be used more widely across Europe. The bloc has set a target for the 15 countries that comprised it before its enlargement on May 1 to use renewable energy for 12 percent of their overall energy needs by 2010. Twenty-two percent of their electricity consumption is to come from renewable sources by that date. The European Commission (news - web sites) said Wednesday it expected to miss that goal, with renewable energy forms predicted to make up only 10 percent of overall energy consumption and 18 to 19 percent of electricity consumption by that date. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] (fwd) Mercury News, Gas Price Editorial
One person's (not mine) point of view. Forwarded for general discussion purposes. MM */Dear/ Gas Tax Supporters, Today the San Jose Mercury News published the below COIL editorial. To see the actual editorial, as it appeared in the Mercury News, go to **http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/opinion/* */ /**Below is text for the editorial with the original headline. The Mercury News changed the headline to. /You with the big car, quit whining - /*USE LESS GAS AND PRICES WILL FALL */ /**/Sincerely, Stan/ * *Rising Gas Prices* The Reality Every year Californians complain about ever increasing gasoline prices. We blame government and the big-bad oil companies. But we rarely consider ourselves as the cause of the increasing gasoline prices. It is always easier to blame others than to consider that we might be causing the problem. Rising gasoline prices are caused by our increasing thirst for gasoline. Demand for oil is increasing worldwide and California, as the second largest user of gasoline in the world, is a major contributor to the worldwide increase in demand. When demand for any product or service exceeds supply then prices increase which is a basic worldwide economic principal. Oil is no exception. Oil exporting countries are responding to the increasing demand by increasing their prices. Crude oil prices have doubled since 1999. The only way Californians can reduce gasoline prices is to reduce demand. It's that simple. If we don't reduce demand gasoline prices will continue to rise. There are no magic bullets to bring down gasoline prices. If we don't reduce our demand we can anticipate paying, five years from now, another 75¢ to $1.00 more per gallon to the refineries and oil producing countries. Here are the facts... -U.S. has a minuscule 2% (includes Alaska) of the worlds proven oil reserves. We can't produce our way out of the oil shortage. -U.S. consumes 25% of the world's oil and 43% of the world's gasoline. -U.S. now imports 55% of its oil and we are rapidly approaching 60%. -California gasoline use, during the past 11 years, has increased by an average of 230 million gallons a year. -In 1992 California burned 13.11 billion gallons. In 2003 we burned 15.66 billion gallons. -During the past 10 years Californian's have added 2.2 million more cars to their roads; approximately 348,000 more cars every year. If Californians do not want to pay oil companies and oil producing nations another 75¢ to $1.00 for a gallon of gas than we, as a state, need to develop a positive plan that encourages people to use less gasoline. There is one thing that all economists seem to agree on. The cheaper gas is, the more is wasted. Europe invoked high gas taxes many years ago, which have caused their per capita gas consumption to plummet. Californians can lead America in that direction, but with a unique twist. Refund the gas tax money to the people. If every dime of gas tax revenue were returned to the people as reductions of other taxes, we would benefit from price-driven gas conservation without increasing our total tax burden. Here is what we can do in the mean time. -Air conditioners use a lot of gas. Only use them when the temperature is above 80 degrees. -Speeding uses even more gas. Driving 60 instead of 70 saves a whole lot of gas. -The biggest payoff is to buy a car that gets better mileage. A 5-mpg increase will save between 750 and 1,500 gallons over the life of the car. Or, we can do nothing and continue to complain about increasing gas prices. Stan Shore Executive Director California Oil Independence League (COIL) P.O Box 1384 Palo Alto, CA 94301 [EMAIL PROTECTED] California Oil Independence League is a local organization that advocates America and California should reduce their dependence on imported oil. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] location of girl mark workshops
I think she just needs to run into the right person or persons in the Bay Area who could make that Video DVD happen for her, without making more work for her. I bought a Digital Video cam last year and, the first few times out, especially, what a difficult amount of work, just to work with it a bit. And, what a learning-curve. Very rough in all ways. I've been doing digital stills for years, but the video stuff really blocked me for a good while. I can only imagine that folks who make decent videos for net download must have to climb a bit of a hill to learn their stuff. On Mon, 24 May 2004 14:12:30 -0700, you wrote: It would be my suggestion that she should make a DVD and charge $8-? apiece and whet peoples appetite. If they have more questions, they can attend the workshops. She could use the DVD as advertising and perhaps make more money. Art Krenzel, P.E. PHOENIX TECHNOLOGIES 10505 NE 285TH Street Battle Ground, WA 98604 360-666-1883 voice [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: murdoch To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:03 PM Subject: [biofuel] location of girl mark workshops On Mon, 24 May 2004 19:37:55 -, you wrote: Curious where Girl Mark does these workshops? Is it in Calfifornia someplace. Would love to attend one. Is there any upcoming classes and where? tj From what I've seen they seem to be often in N. California, but right now she is here in the Southwest (Arizona and NM) and I she said something about going to the Midwest this summer. I think if someone were to do the work to make a decent video (she's right it would take a lot of work to do right or even half-right) then that could help folks attend without having formally to travel to one of the workshops. When she gets back from her hiking, maybe she can clarify what web page folks can go to, if there is one, to buy one of her books, or check for the location of her next workshop, payment terms, etc. But all this takes work, even just to make sure there is a page with a schedule, so I am not trying to imply that she owes us such data or any other thing. Note that she also has this Local-B100 group to which I am cc'ing. But if you contact her, she'll probably get back to you as to if she'll be in your area, or I suppose a person could fly to California for a day. The thing she did here was put on two days. The first day was the sort of beginner-level introductory (me and others). Then the next day there was a workshop for making a reactor, which I didn't go to. She also mentioned in email offering a service of building one for you, for materials and labor. But this didn't seem to be something she'd do all the time, ... only if you were on the way and in order to pay for an upcoming trip. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] outdoor cooking to save on indoor cooling costs, and for other reasons
Thanks, I'll bump this up the list, a bit, of things to get serious about around the house. Another thing about cooking on a grill is that in a way you're using the grease that drips off of meat to develop a slight amount more of flame aren't you? I just like the idea of immediate seemingly added biofuel. Whereas indoor, I've sort of wondered whether that biofuel energy (however slight) is more wasted. Anyway, most of the grills I see for sale are Propane powered and thus might not result in that symbiotic grease-burning sort of process? As you can tell, I haven't done any of this. It's a little un-nerving to read national news stories about forest fire concerns for this summer and to realize you've put yourself right down right in the thick of it (concrete house or otherwise... my house has enough wood 'here and there' to be flammable), so right now I'm focused on dotting the i's and crossing the t's, in cleaning up outside. On Tue, 25 May 2004 07:10:08 -0500, you wrote: Actually with a well planned outdoor kitchen in the shade of the building or porch, there should only be one trip out and another one back in, when you are done. The difference on the cooling bill is very extensive and if you can use solar cooking, it is even more. I have been using this for 12 years and once I have gotten used to it, I find it very convenient. I generally weed the garden or brush the fur family while doing the cooking, both chores that need to be done outdoors. Bright Blessings, Kim At 01:19 AM 5/25/2004, you wrote: Dear Murdoch, It seems to me that it is better to cook where you find the most ease or joy. It occurs to me that if the outside temperature is 90 F and the inside is 76 F, it would not take very many trips to add enough heat and moisture to your home to outweigh the savings in heat from cooking outdoors. Regards, Wendell murdoch wrote: PS: I wonder if making a point of cooking outside, no matter what the fuel type on the grill, could help avoid uneccessarily adding heat to the house one is trying to cool. For that matter, I wonder what grills are partly biofueled. I know that there is a grill for sale at one place that I'm told the Mexicans often use that is partly Mesquite wood-fired though it also, (I'm told) requires charcoal. I haven't bought one, as there were none in-stock, but I guess there are various considerations, such as the inconvenience (to some) of going outside, and of following common-sense fire-precautions. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT [click here] --- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] great history channel spot on the tzero
The show is From Tactical To Practical. This particular show, they were examining all sorts of hybrids and alt-fuel vehicles. After the Prius-Insight hybrid segment, they did a segment on the tzero, where they had it do a 1/4 mile drag against a 500 hp Dodge Viper. The tzero won. At the end, the Viper was catching up a bit, but it was not able to overcome the tzero's advantages in low-end torque that manifested themselves at the line. Then there was a segment on a diesel-electric hybrid military vehicle and then a diesel-electric 2004 Dodge pickup (Is such a thing actually available to consumers, or was this just Daimler-Chrysler vaporware, or more military-only who-cares-about-consumers-ware?) The military hybrid (Hybrid Humvee?) was said to use Lithium-type batteries. Cool. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] great history channel spot on the tzero
On Mon, 24 May 2004 12:21:58 -0400, you wrote: murdoch wrote: The show is From Tactical To Practical. This particular show, they were examining all sorts of hybrids and alt-fuel vehicles. After the Prius-Insight hybrid segment, they did a segment on the tzero, where they had it do a 1/4 mile drag against a 500 hp Dodge Viper. The tzero won. At the end, the Viper was catching up a bit, but it was not able to overcome the tzero's advantages in low-end torque that manifested themselves at the line. I saw it too, didn't it look like they were going really slow, perhaps a mock race? It's possible they would take it easy, but there would be no reason to do so. There are videos around the net of a tzero dusting similar street cars (Ferrari, etc.), and I've seen it accelerate from zero (though I haven't been in it when it did so), and I don't have much trouble believing Gage's claim of 0-60 in 3.6 seconds. I don't personally like super-fast cars as street cars (though I've not driven one) for safety reasons, and I'd classify the tzero with the faster Porsche 911 variants in my thinking on that matter. On the other hand, having seen the tzero accelerate from stop, yes, I must admit there was a moment when I thought I wonder if this is for real. Also, note that the other driver turned and spoke to the camera at some point, making me wonder if they shot the 'race' more than once, maybe with a camera person in either car at some point. One thing I liked about the episode was the cutaway of the car so you could see where they put some of the batteries, how they clarified that they were supposedly laptop batteries (when I attended a Gage lecture, the claim he made was that the batteries were ones used for other things, such as the model-airplane people, but it's certainly possible they've tried others) and the explanation of the low-end torque issue for some EVs. I also liked Gage's summarizing statement as to how things have come a long way in the variety of areas from battery to motor to wheel, because this helps put some perspective on the various behind-the-scenes technology areas that have gone better... the various weak link points that could cause an EV not to do as well? Maybe I'm reading too much into it. Then there was a segment on a diesel-electric hybrid military vehicle and then a diesel-electric 2004 Dodge pickup (Is such a thing actually available to consumers, or was this just Daimler-Chrysler vaporware, or more military-only who-cares-about-consumers-ware?) The hybrid dodge pickup is being made available to fleet customers right now. It should be available in a year or two for regular customers. The military hybrid (Hybrid Humvee?) was said to use Lithium-type batteries. Cool. I think it's mainly for stealth mode. The military rarely cares about fuel consumption. I don't watch the whole episode carefully, but didn't they talk, at some point, about why such a vehicle would be important, about the 750,000 gallons per day of fuel used by the troops during the invasion, of how the speed of the invasion was limited by the supply lines for fuel? I may be confusing this with a segment on afterwards about something else. MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Saudi Oil Is Secure and Plentiful, Say Officials
On Mon, 24 May 2004 04:17:30 +0900, you wrote: Hi Hoagy Anyone see this? No but thank you Keith and speaking of real men and what they have to say I thought this excerpt from the article pasted below would be of possible future interest -- Finally, we learn from Bob Woodward that, as a reward for getting rid of Saddam Hussein, Bush received what amounts to an in-kind campaign contribution from the Saudi royal family. Don't worry about rising gas prices, Prince Bandar assured the president. After screwing Americans all summer with high prices at the pump, Bandar promised Bush the Saudis would pump more oil in the fall, thereby lowering gas prices ö just before the election. We had something about it before, but it's certainly worth spelling it out again, thankyou. I just hope people will remember it when it happens. And the media... I haven't decided what I think of Woodward's claim, though one has to say that he has good credibility. My inclination when I heard this was that it was half true, and that even if fully true, that there are other factors at work here. 1. The Saudis and others have said, and I believe it also to be a factor, that the U.S. has for so long prevented expansion and new construction in the refinery industry that part of the reason the U.S. gas prices are going up has more to do with that, than with any shortage of oil. Since the refinery shortage argument seems to get short play (it is an argument for the enviro conspiracy driving up prices I guess rather than an argument for the Bush-Saudi price manipulation conspiracy) I thought I'd put it back on the table. 2. I also tend to buy into the idea that if we are going into a world economic expansion in such areas as China, and if we have done little or nothing to dissaociate such a 21st century expansion with increased use of Oil, then, DUH, we are going to see use of oil go up and, probably, prices. If more cars and motorized bikes and what-not are being put into garages worldwide, and if they're being put there to get daily use, then of course, the cumulative net world-wide effect is an increased use of fuel. 3. Another factor, in my view, has been the Bush Administration's increase of the Debt and the possibility (probability, certainty, some would say) this will lead to paying it off in lower-valued American Dollars. Why should Oil Producers, from a profit-oriented point of view, not try to get the best-value for their product that they can get? So, there was perhaps some hush-hush we-can-help you conversation between Bush and the Saudis, and if it happened it was just another in a long line of sickeningly inappropriate machinations on the part of this Administration, but I don't see it as the only thing going on here. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] location of girl mark workshops
On Mon, 24 May 2004 19:37:55 -, you wrote: Curious where Girl Mark does these workshops? Is it in Calfifornia someplace. Would love to attend one. Is there any upcoming classes and where? tj
Re: [biofuel] Real Men Reduce Oil Demand
On Sun, 23 May 2004 07:30:03 +0900, you wrote: Real Men Reduce Oil Demand New York Times Editorial Board May 19, 2004 By focusing on the supply-side role of OPEC, the candidates are confusing the issue about oil and gas prices. The answer lies in transforming our economy to be more energy efficient and, ultimately, powered by renewables. The NYT Editorial Board feels similarly. It's a start. Yes, some points I agreed with. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ratifying the Kyoto Protocol
I pay little or no attention to Kyoto and haven't for some time. I believe that if Global Warming really is a threat to be taken seriously, and I think it is, that it will take virtually all people on Earth to engage in climate pre-remediating energy consideration (for want of better words) that goes well beyond something like Kyoto. I wouldn't expect to have a way to illustrate my verbal gobbledy-gook, but it occurs to me that this story, which I had meant to bring to your attention anyway, is to my eye an illustration of a large somewhat credible statement along the lines of we actually take this stuff somewhat seriously. Even coming from a nation now world-famous for using increasing amounts of fossil fuels in their economic expansion, I take their renewable energy policies to be light-years beyond the U.S. or Russia, which one or two leaders from now will doubtless make some concilliatory policy moves along the lines of ok, well, maybe now we can get it in gear, now that we have clearer evidence or some such. At that time, I intend to sue the leaders of both nations for making me throw my computer across the room. Anyway, here's the story: http://service.china.org.cn/link/wcm/Show_Text?info_id=95620p_qry=renewable 'Renewable' Becomes New Energy Priority China has established renewable energy as a basic national policy and a new law is being created to provide legal support to developing it. The State Development and Reform Commission (SDRC) completed the draft and expects to submit it for review to the Environmental Protection and Resources Conservation Committee of the National People's Congress, the country's top legislative body, next month. Renewable energy refers mainly to water, wind, solar, biomass, geothermal and marine-based energy. According to the draft, development and utilization of renewable energy will be government-driven but with strong encouragement of market forces. Encouragement will be given for capital, regardless of its source, to be injected into the industry. Priority will be given to developing renewable energy in rural and remote areas to meet the lifestyle and work needs of the local people. Advantageous loan and tax policies will also be implemented to attract enterprises to invest. The draft highlights the importance of environmental protection, arguing that pollution and ecological damage must be prevented during the process of development. While China has made substantial progress in the development of renewable energy, it still lags behind developed countries and even some developing nations such as India and Brazil, said Xu Dingming, director of the Energy Bureau of the SDRC. Effective policies and legal systems must be formulated. This will identify the strategic status of renewable energy in the growth of the national economy and ensure the rapid development of related industries, Xu said. Existing regulations and policies have sometimes been obstacles, he added. Xu pointed out that legal support can promote the rapid growth of the nation's energy industries and help improve the energy structure. It must play an increasingly important role in the nation's sustainable economy. Energy demands are rising on a yearly basis and may double after 2020. However, China still depends mainly on coal for its energy supply, which has caused severe environmental pollution. Experts estimate that even if all the coal resources in the country are explored and exploited, it can only sustain another century's energy demand. China has abundant wind energy that can be vital to solving the country's energy issue, said Green Peace said in a research report it issued in conjunction with the Europe Wind Energy Association and China Renewable Industry Association. The report, named Wind Force 12, predicts that China's wind energy reserves will surpass the total amount of its current power generation in future decades. It forecasts that by 2020, wind-generated electricity may reach 14 percent of the global wind energy output. (China Daily May 17, 2004) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] It has happened twice now.
I just had this conversation with Girl Mark yesterday at her excellent class. She had some 90% (not 100%) KOH and gave a very general guideline that if it were 100%, we'd start with something like 4.9 to 6 g for our calculations, and then add whatever we'd calculated from our Titration process that we would need. In our case, we had some good stuff, with a Titration of 2. So, we might use 4.9+2=6.9, or maybe more if we took 4.9 as the 'low' figure and wanted a 'middle' figure we could use 5.5+2=7.5 But, since we had 90% and not 100% KOH, we weren't done calculating. After the class, I had to correct my calculation. I make it to be that at 90% KOH, our base-range should be: 5.44 to 6.67 (where 90% of 5.44 is 4.9 and 90% of 6.67 is 6). So, if we used 5.44+2=7.44 for that 1 liter batch, that might be correct, or maybe a little more if we wanted to not use the 'low' figure. Is this about right? Hope so. MM On Fri, 21 May 2004 20:31:33 +0900, you wrote: Hi Luc What is the concentration of your potassium hydroxide? I think from your figures below that you're presuming 100% concentration, same as NaOH (or nearly), but KOH is less concentrated and you have to allow for that. I don't have much faith in your figure of basic 4.9 potasium, it should be more, according to the concentration. Are you titrating with a KOH solution or a NaOH solution and then converting the results to KOH? More about lye http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye KOH is not as strong as NaOH -- use 1.4 times as much KOH (actually 1.4025 times). Titration is the same, just use a 0.1% KOH solution instead of NaOH solution, and use 1 gm of KOH for every milliliter of 0.1% solution used in the titration. But instead of the basic 3.5 grams of NaOH lye per liter of oil, use 3.5 x 1.4 = 4.9 grams of KOH. So, if your titration was 5 ml, use 5 + 4.9 = 9.9 gm KOH per liter of oil. One more complication -- check the purity of your KOH, it's generally not as pure as NaOH. Anhydrous grade KOH flake is usually about 92%, sometimes less -- check the label. We use half-pearls assayed at 85%. Adjust the basic quantity accordingly: the basic 4.9 grams would be 5.8 (5.775) grams for 85% KOH, or 5.3 (5.33) grams for 92% KOH. KOH dissolves in methanol much more easily than NaOH does, and doesn't clump together as NaOH can do. Do a comparison with sodium, and I'd also suggest the poor man's titration that Todd outlined for Pierre a few weeks ago. http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/33676/ Instead of using jars, do a blender batch for each sample, same as you're doing now. That will mean agitation, temperature etc are just the same, with the KOH amount the only variable. You're more interested in tests using more KOH than less. Best Keith I successfully made one batch using WVO but that required a double processing and came away matching all the numbers I have read about, BUT twice now I have doen the folowing and with nearly the same results. Could someone please point out the flaw ? WVO = 500ml heated to 130F. Using the Better Titration method I titrate it using a PH meter to be 1gr extra (4ml%4=1). then I add that to the basic 4.9 potasium Hydroxide for 5.9gr and then divide by two (for the 500ml batch) The methoxide is very well mixed and I add it to the blender oil (still at 130F) slowly and let it blend for 15-18 minutes. After settling I get a distinct seperation of very dark, almost black on the bottom and a redish dark top layer (the BD) but as soon as I put it to the shake test (150ml unwashed BD to 150ml water at room temp) I get mayonaise that won't completely break even after two days. I got to be doing something wrong here. I am going to try one more time using sodiuk instead of potassium and see if I get the same results and then I will have to start questioning the PH meter and the source of WVO, not to mention my ability to understand a laid out process. Should I dump the PH meter and go with strips ? Maybe use the other liquid penolphalene (or something like that) that makes it go magenta for 10 seconds when it reaches 8.5 PH? My scale is top shelf electronic. The chems are fresh from the chem supply house, the oil was still warm when I sampled it :) I am using 100% isopropyl (I now have LOTS of it,4.5lt)I mix in the oil while the jar is sitting in warm water and it never really does get 100% clear but I keep on stirring it throughout the titration process aas I add the .01% lye solution (made according to the Better Titration specs) I am now thoughroughly stumped as to what I did wrong. Luc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion
[biofuel] When driving is a living, gas prices hit even harder
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=677e=1u=/usatoday/20040521/bs_usatoday/whendrivingisalivinggaspriceshitevenharder When driving is a living, gas prices hit even harder Fri May 21, 6:25 AM ET Add Business - USATODAY.com to My Yahoo! By Chris Woodyard and Gary Stoller, USA TODAY No more Big Rig breakfasts for trucker Yvonne Mendoza. I used to eat out at truck stops, a full meal, she said as she pumped $2.37-a-gallon diesel into her 18-wheeler this week at a truck stop east of Los Angeles. Today, she makes do with Taco Bell burritos, giving up a full stomach for a full fuel tank as the price of satisfying her truck's appetite has shot up. (Related chart: Going up: Gasoline prices) Her sacrifice is one of many slight but tangible tradeoffs being made across the country in the face of record prices at the pump. Arriving ahead of Memorial Day weekend, the traditional start of the summer driving season, the high prices are pinching gasoline-dependent businesses and consumers alike. (Related story: High cost of SUV ownership doesn't stop at the pump) A Connecticut landscaper notes with dismay how much his lawn mowers cost to run now. A stand-up comedian in Florida who drives to his gigs says club owners are neither amused nor sympathetic when he seeks more gas money. A Kentucky driving school has stopped using its more fuel-hungry cars to stifle the profit drain. [etc.] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] waste to energy on an industrial scale
you may see some German media footage of the plant operating on our website www.untechservices.com/products I was unable to get your link to work. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Soy vs. RME comment
In addition to what you've written (it's mostly over my head, but interesting) Not over your head, and since you've been learning biodiesel you should know this too, it's easy. Ok, I liked your explanation as to where some of our exploration is of the Euro and American issues. I think you're right that I can get the gist of this. I will try to go back and look at those links. I'd like to clarify that I'm not presently on track to learn any more about DIY biodiesel. I just took the one class and I found it interesting (and well worth it) but it will not include followup on my part to make biodiesel, at least not for some time, and quite possibly not ever. I did clarify this with Mark before I took the class that basically my goal was to lay some groundwork for understanding things a bit better in a hands-on way, for a wide variety of reasons unrelated to a desire to follow up and invest the hundreds or thousands of man-hours it would take me to become my own fuel maker, to a level of competence that would satisfy me. Per Todd's and others' frequent refrain, any reasonably intelligent person with resources and commitment and time and motivation and so forth can meet even bigger challenges than DIY fuel and can certainly do DIY fuel, but in my view it's a question of defining what one's priorities are. In my case there is an added factor that I am somewhat inept (less experienced than others) with most mechanical or chemical things DIY, car, fuel, or otherwise. I do sometimes make a point of learning, and if I had a lot of years I might get to DIY fuel, but right now it's not up there. Heck, being 55 miles away from the nearest home depot, it can sometimes take me months to get around to the simplest home improvement project. I like being here and I like discussing and being educated about biofuel issues as they relate to energy policy and reflecting on what I guess I'd call the social anthropology of energy technology, but I have never really been here, as my top reason, to learn to do it myself. This is not meant as an argument or a put-off, but just as a hopefully helpful clarification, so you understand that my future comments will probably not reflect some increased investment of time and money in getting on the learning curve of DIY biofuel. Of course, I reserve the right to change my mind, such as if I get better paying, less time-consuming work that allows me to consider taking on some fun at-home projects. It's been 23 years since I sat in a High School Chemistry class. I somewhat liked it then, and I somewhat liked it yesterday. If only from that point of view, it was worth a day of doing something educational and different. MM Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: murdoch: Re: [biofuel] Ratifying the Kyoto Protocol
On Mon, 24 May 2004 04:17:50 +0900, you wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I pay little or no attention to Kyoto and haven't for some time. I believe that if Global Warming really is a threat to be taken seriously, and I think it is, that it will take virtually all people on Earth to engage in climate pre-remediating energy consideration (for want of better words) that goes well beyond something like Kyoto. Indeed. As I said, it's woefully inadequate. BUT it's not as woefully inadequate as the response to the threat of the powers-that-be, whether corporate or national. I mean, for heaven's sake, this list has probably saved more cabon than most governments! The Kyoto protocol's 10 years old, but the issue itself is more like 17 - 17 years I think since the US Congress was addressed on it, and that wasn't a reassuring message at all. I think we're of somewhat like mind here. I guess to me it just boils down to trying to make a list of things I don't think are worth my time, or will dash my hopes, and one of them is tempting myself into thinking I can get some global warming real action from something like the Bush Adminsitration. Their thinking is so clearly antipathetical to seeing or discussing or allowing discussing or action on some of what I think are the important issues (even the 'conservative' issue of watching out for America's future financial liabilities), that I just don't have it in me to beat my head against it. I wouldn't be too sure about China. Yes, you caught my over-enthusiasm. I didn't express my own point of view as well as I liked. There were some reasons for my enthusiasm, though I'd take back a lot of it and present a more balanced view. A couple of years ago, my editor visited China, at their invitation, and they did seem to be investing a lot in a general way on some fronts of hedging their bets... not betting on one single transportation technology. They gave some figure as to how many people were in their colleges majoring in and studying various renewable energy technologies. I don't remember the number, but it was many many many many times the number one might give for the U.S. Hype? Undoubtedly. But probably there was also some truth to it. Then a few months ago I had a chance to confirm with someone who had visited there what I already knew: A) they are going gang-busters trying to build better batteries, including some advanced technologies. It seems like battery companies spring up there like mushrooms in September a Frenchman told me so eloquently. B) They are flouting Environmental standards in a very significant way in this effort. (I keep recalling a brief thing I saw on TV a couple of years ago where major computer manufacturers and others in the U.S. were caught sending waste computer parts to China where they were disposed of in ways that would damage or kill Chinese people... because we could get away with this because there wasn't much scrutiny. Many of the American companies didn't really know this was happening exactly, but they needed a way to get rid of the waste, and at the time, sending it to China was a legally acceptable and affordable way. I hope the same doesn't happen with Chinese batteries manufactured for our hybrid cars, with some Chinese living downstream from waste secretly being subjected to plant runoff and improperly recycled battery materials.) These points, plus their very large dam they recently opened (positive in the sense of planning ahead for power, arguably negative, to some, in the enviro ramifications of a large damn like that, forcing folks from their homes forever, etc. ... These points cause me to see the centralized Chinese authorities as having an interest in virtually any power source they can plan on, renewable or otherwise, that will help them hedge their bets and avoid a downturn in jobs. (Wonder how they're doing on birth control technology and laws, considering the importance to keeping population under control if we are to find ways for better energy solutions, per capita). India: I think over the years I've heard enough whisper of solar and other capabilities there that I'm somewhat aware of their good momenum. That and for right or wrong Bill Gates made clear years ago that he saw huge potential in that country, and that seems to come up every once in awhile. And, of course, in the workplace here you often run into computer professionals from India. Last comment for now on the China story: Funny how it doesn't seem as necessary to worry about copyright on a China state-ok'd story, with no author listed. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives
[biofuel] German Biodiesel
Great link, thanks Jens. I like the discussion of the recent standards. DIN EN 14214. On Fri, 21 May 2004 10:42:50 -, you wrote: This english brochure has lots of useful information about the status of biodiesel in Germany/Europe: http://www.ufop.de/download/FlowerPower.pdf Some comments: 1) Until early 2004, the confusion about whether diesel cars where allowed to use biodiesel or not occurred because biodiesel was not standardized. So, everyone could mix up something oily and sell it as biodiesel. This was a problem for producers of diesel injection pumps like Bosch because they didn't know with what they should test their pumps, for parameters like density, viscosity, water content, and many more. 2) Pictures of the Lupo TDI can be viewed at http://www.volkswagen.de/lupo/3ltdi.htm It can get up to 80mpg (some claim even better values) if you drive it with a VERY light foot on the gas pedal. Unfortunately, the trunk is so small that you have to fold down the rear seats if you want to carry anything bigger than a sheet of paper, effectively making it a 2-seater (my personal opinion, YMMV :-). 3) Diesel particulate and NOx emssions can be greatly reduced by particle filters and DeNOX catalysts. Most German carmakers will offer particle filter systems of various kinds (not Peugeot technology) from 2005 on. Toyota already sells a combined particle/NOx reduction system called D-CAT with some of their newer diesel models, like the Avensis (http://www.toyota.de/showroom/avensis_2003/index.html). Regards, Jens Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Energy Star Ratings and cars and Trucks?
I think what I'm going to do is make sure I come back to this point, here and there, as time permits. If this program to rate appliances and homes and other related services and goods has met with some very good success (and I think it has) then I see no reason it couldn't be applied to motor vehicles. I tend to dwell (somewhat) on how the present administration is essentially anti-Conservation and anti-renewable-energy, but I like this Energy Star Government program, within its limitations, from what little I've learned so far, regardless of which administration is at the helm. MM On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:17:04 -0400, you wrote: It's a good point. I've been investigating Energy Star ratings for buildings. Why not vehicles? On May 20, 2004, at 12:39 PM, murdoch wrote: I am spending some time today researching energy star rated appliances at www.Energystar.gov It is quite fun to see the efforts being made or apparently being made by some manufacturers to allow some folks to buy appliances which will assist them in their financial and environmental conservation efforts. Why aren't cars and trucks included in Energy Star Ratings? Might this be a partial solution to the quandry of what to do about CAFE rules and the somewhat skewed results of them? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM - ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Lyle Estill CEO Blast Internet Services www.blast.com (919) 545-2551 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] European Biofuel Issues
Thanks NTSL and Craig and bwelch. Looks like some comments worth discussing. I'm passing on Craig's comments especially to Keith Addison's biofuels list, which is here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ as there may be some further hashing out of this information there. The more we all use the net to stay in touch with each other, the more transparent we can make this information, even if it gets a bit intricate. MM On Thu, 20 May 2004 12:25:17 +0200, you wrote: At 02:19 20.05.2004 +, you wrote: Yes, my friend in Germany tells me that the way diesel fuel is processed in Europe allows for low sulphur content and therefore allows for the use of highly efficient catalytic converters that remove the high emissions normally associated with diesels. Too bad we can't get this grade of diesel produced here in the uS. Then perhaps more environmnetally friendly people would consider diesel. Hi, I'm new to this list - my first posting. While you are right that fuel quality is higher in Europe (in France, you cannot generally get gasoline below 95 octane - do you still have 87 octane in the US?), I would just like to point out that environmentalists do not generally like diesel here. Greenpeace has greatly criticised VW for producing the Lupo, which gets nearly 100 mpg in a diesel version, and produced a spiffed-up Twingo called the Smile as a gasoline version that also got at least 100 mpg to prove its point: 3-liter cars (i.e. cars that consume 3 liters of fuel per 100 km, which is how mileage is measured here) do not have to be diesels. The particle filter the French introduced a few years ago reduces diesel particle emissions by more than 99%, but German manufacturers refuse to install it. They claim it may not be reliable, which they cannot claim forever as the things continue to work perfectly. The real reason thus seems to be that they don't want to charge customers an extra 150 euros that they then have to pass on to the French compeition, who hold the patent... Otherwise, diesel drivers here are filling up with biodiesel in the summer in growing numbers, when temperatures are warm enough to keep the stuff fluid. An expat in Germany, Craig Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Energy Star Ratings and cars and Trucks?
I am spending some time today researching energy star rated appliances at www.Energystar.gov It is quite fun to see the efforts being made or apparently being made by some manufacturers to allow some folks to buy appliances which will assist them in their financial and environmental conservation efforts. Why aren't cars and trucks included in Energy Star Ratings? Might this be a partial solution to the quandry of what to do about CAFE rules and the somewhat skewed results of them? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] (fwd) Saving time at the gas pump with a hybrid
I particularly like this one. We consumers so seldom have anyone make an effort to put a value on our time. And isn't our time important to us? And so much has been made over the years over the issue of lengthy recharge times for EVs. With fast-charging those EV fueling times are coming down (not that the auto companies seem to be publicizing this), and if one recharges only at home at night, it is questionable whether it takes anywhere near the same time with just a hookup or two and a button or two it takes to stop at a pump. Not to say that EVs don't still have their fuel time and range and other disadvantages along with advantages, but still, it's nice to see someone evaluate vehicles for how much time and effort they cost us in one area. Now, if only we could expand this thinking to time on the phone with insurance companies in an accident (and medical compensation to replace hair follicles pulled out). http://www.hybridcars.com/time_savings.html saving time at the gas pump with a hybrid car I recently received an email from Mark Linroth, a self-employed petroleum engineer who has owned approximately a dozen cars since getting his first driverâs license in 1976. As an engineer, he pays close attention to their operating characteristics and fuel economy. He calculates hybrid cost savings of $2,640 over an eight-year period using a constant $1.60 per gallon and 20,000 miles of driving per year. More importantly, he offers these observations about how much time he saves at the pump: äTo estimate the time savings we assume that on average the tank will be filled when it is near empty taking an average of 12 gallons each time. For me, fill-ups take approximately 10 minutes so I'll use that figure. ãIn 8 years at 12 gallons per fill-up, the hybrid will have to be re-fuelled 267 times for a total of 44 hours spent standing at the pump getting high off the gasoline fumes. The regular Civic will need to be re-fuelled 346 times for a total of 58 hours battling nicotine withdrawal (No smoking at the pump, please). äSince we can assume that most people do not get any significant utility from the act of re-fuelling, putting a monetary value on these hours depends on how you value your time. It depends on what else you would be doing instead with the additional 14 hours. äExample: if my alternate activity is talking to the IRS, the time is not that important. If I'm otherwise going to be late to the beginning of a chick-flick my wife has waited months to see, the value of the time is beyond measure. Added benefit, value priceless: at the present time, not all service stations have the pay-at-the-pump option. Thus, some portion of those 79 avoided fuel stops would have forced an encounter with a surly and incompetent store clerk. = Û¼¡`¡¼Û¿,üü,¿Û¼¡`¡¼Û¿Û¼¡`¡¼Û¿,üü,¿Û¼¡`¡¼Û¿ All-Energy News and Discussion http://groups.yahoo.com/group/All-Energy Û¼¡`¡¼Û¿,üü,¿Û¼¡`¡¼Û¿Û¼¡`¡¼Û¿,üü,¿Û¼¡`¡¼Û¿ __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/All-Energy Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Least Costly Cars To Own.... according to one study's methodology
According to this study's methodology, fuel efficiency is important, though obviously not the only factor. The top 5 cars include an assortment of approaches, including the Hybrid Prius, the Non-Hybrid Civic and the VW TDI. http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/18/pf/autos/efficient_cost_to_own/ The real costs of fuel-efficient cars The most fuel-efficient autos may not always be the least expensive to own. May 19, 2004: 1:31 PM EDT NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - If you're looking to save money in this new era of rising gas prices, cars with high fuel-mileage figures are tempting. When looking at costs of ownership for five years, the cars that get the highest gas mileage tend be the least costly to own, not counting their depreciation. But while fuel costs are among the biggest items in overall ownership cost, there are many other factors to consider. On this list of the 15 most fuel-efficient, according to the autos Web site Edmunds.com, the typical Honda Insight driver will spend more than $2,500 less on fuel over 5 years than the driver of a Toyota Celica, the 15th-ranked car on the list. [...] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] The Vegan Car: Greasel, not diesel...
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storyu=/laweekly/20040514/lo_laweekly/53474 Fri May 14, 7:49 PM ET Add Local - Los Angeles Weekly to My Yahoo! By Joshuah Bearman LA Weekly Writer A sticker on the blue Dodge read: ask me about veggie power. The truck belonged to Joel Wolf, a rancher, surfer and longtime diesel mechanic, who had agreed to meet me at Summit Restaurant up above the Ojai Valley, so that I could do just what the sticker requested. Recently, Joel formed a company to propagate the usage of discarded vegetable oil as an alternative fuel. And no matter how many times the question is put to him ÷ Okay, so what gives with veggie power? ÷ Joel cant contain his enthusiasm when answering. He loves it. Its liberating. Its the future. It makes freaking sense. Veggie power, as he put it over a chocolate malted outside the Summit, is totally bitchen. Joel is part of a growing movement that is realizing the latent environmental and economic potential of diesel engines by converting them to run on the oil thrown away daily by thousands of restaurants. Making a relatively small investment, these folks install parallel fuel systems in their cars and trucks, into which they can pour grease collected from the back of Wendys, Wienerschnitzel or any eatery that serves fried food. They adapt all kinds of vehicles, share technical information, transverse the country, stopping at diners every 500 miles or so, proselytizing along the way. Greasel, its called ÷ or at least thats one coinage catching on because its the name of the company selling the most popular conversion kit. The Depart-ment of Energy prefers the more technical designation of waste vegetable oil (WVO), but among devotees the term that generates the most enthusiasm is a passionately pronounced straight veg. [etc.] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] crossposting?
CAFE standards worse now than 15 years ago, etc etc etc. It would be hard to find a better case for illustrating that all the wrong people are calling all the wrong tunes for all the wrong reasons. The more we all use the net to stay in touch with each other, the more transparent we can make this information, even if it gets a bit intricate. Indeed. It baffles me that some people take exception to cross-posting, what nonsense. Sure, you have to be judicious about it, but you have to be judicious with mailing lists anyway, don't you? Nothing wrong with cross-posting, quite the opposite. It sounds like you may have heard from some who don't like it. If I am doing it in a way that people don't like, then nobody has made me aware of this, recently. They could do so, politely, I think, in a way that might cause me to consider modifying some of it. What I have done over the years is, as you say, try to be judicious about it, basically giving things a relevancy test, and trying to BCC sometimes instead of cc'ing. The purpose of the BCC'ing in my view is to try not to develop too many incoherent conversations. Sometimes I forget to BCC, and this is when we see the crosspost, but lately I am moving more toward BCC'ing, but not to an absolute extent. Putting myelf in the position of the reader and not the poster, there are times when I find crossposting to some extent annoying, and times when I find it to some extent helpful. I sort of like to see, sometimes, for example, when it's a news post or a general initiation of a topic, where else the author is putting his thoughts. The times when I don't like it I guess might be when it becomes visually annoying with too many screwed up subject lines, and-or where the conversations do not connect to each other. In this particular instance, the scales were clearly tipped in favor of passing on the info, because it is so valuable to me (and I assume, some others) to get some of the low-down from far-away lands as to what is going on in these worldwide-relevant activities. But this particular case was a special instance, as I was specifically directing people to this (biofuel) group. The argument for crossposting is, I guess, partly the overall rule of erring on the side of getting the info out there to the people who might want to see it, even if it gets a bit sloppy sometimes and, in the opinion of some, uses a little too much bandwidth. But, that said, I do think there's a place for me and others to modify crossposting behaviour so that it conforms to principles that amount to good netiquette? I know that some folks hate crossposting and consider all crossposting poor netiquette. In that case, I'll just fail netiquette I guess. But I'll listen to or read contrary opinions, and give them consideration. MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Diesel VWs: High Mileage Vehicles, Well Kept Secrets?
I have collected four testimonials to high-mileage VW Diesels that came up in discussion. I have seen many such testimonials over the years, but I have been meaning to make a few points in response to them. These came up recently, in response to reports that the two gasoline hybrids have not been getting as good mileage as they advertise. My comments are below the four testimonials. - Begin Testimonials - 1. -- Bummer, my 235 ft. lbs. torque, Upsoluted 2002 Golf BioTDI is getting 45 MPG at 80+ MPH. Guess what I bought yesterday? A bumper sticker featuring Calvin p*ssing on the words, Gas Hybrid. Want a copy? :) Ryan 2. -- Heck, I put a Got 50MPG? sticker on my TDi Golf and I'm embarrassed, too. Because its been getting 53 MPG on road trips to my house in upstate NY. I'm so ashamed. BSEG :) busyditch [] Ha! I was stopped at a traffic light nearby yesterday and a guy in a Ford Exploder came alongside and beeped his horn. I rolled down my window and he asked me what kind of mileage I got. I said 53 highway on long trips, @ 70MPH. He said wanna trade? I said NO WAY! I told him the VW TDi is the best kept secret. Its too bad people have to feel obligated to buy overstuffed g-ass guzzling land yachts because they need to keep up with their neighbors, heck the neighbors should keep up with me, I could go next door and borrow a cup of biodiesel! 3. -- My 2002 VW Golf TDI (stock) is getting 50 MPG on the back roads on mostly old country roads in Hills and Valleys in S.E. Ohio. I love it Ken 4. -- My 96 Passat TDI, with a performance Upsolute chip installed for fun and power, has never gotten below 33 mpg, no matter how hard and fast I drive it in the city. Hiway is never under 45 mpg. This is an old TDI, the newer pump duece tdi's are even better, many tdi drivers get over 60 mpg on the highway. All in a car that is heavy, strong, durable and safe. Imagine if they made it like Honda and cut out 600 lbs. of weight. Chuck - My comments on these vehicles: - 1. I've seldom read anything other than enthusiasm for these cars from their owners. I think that's worth noting, when you run across a car like that. Now, my sample group is skewed, as most of the comments I read are from people who are in discussion groups for biofuels and high-mileage vehicles, (i.e., they are driving diesels not just because they like them, but because it puts them in a position to make and use their own fuel without buying from the oil companies). But I just wanted to note their enthusiasm. 2. Many of the environmentalists and greens that I speak to who are not into biofuels do not like the topic of diesel. Their usual objections are that diesel has bad emissions, continues the petroleum dependencies and that biodiesel has allegedly higher emissions of NOx above petrodiesel emissions, so if one of the goals is to decrease emissions, then biodiesel doesn't do this, they say. In fact, it looks like there are some additives and measures that can be taken to mitigate the NOx emissions of biodiesel, and all other emissions are (from what I've read) lower than petrodiesel anyway. Not to mention that biodiesel is renewable and so has lower, or zero, net CO2 emissions (depending on how it's made and how you calculate a few things), as compared to fossil fuels, which contribute CO2 emissions to the global warming problem. In the meantime, the generally bad emissions reputation of petroleum diesel has been mitigated in Europe by newer cleaner fuel and engines made to run on that fuel. In the U.S., the Oil companies will not widely provide that cleaner diesel fuel for another few years, and we have a much smaller collection of diesels available to us to buy new. VW seems to be one of the only companies to make them available, but those few available seem to be one of the best kept secrets to enable consumers to respond to their mileage-cost concerns. And VW doesn't even make all their best diesels available here (Lupo?85+ mpg?) in part I think because the oil companies do not make suitably clean diesel fuel available. We have, again, this issue of the fuel-engine combination being important to improved environmental efforts, and not just one side or the other. As to using biofuel in a Lupo, it can readily be done, and is a great idea, and I even know of one team talking about driving a PHEV across the country on ONE (very very large) tank of biofuel using a LUPO engine, but I think VW has a conflicting policy about warrantying its engines to run on biofuel... (hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong) but I think cars running B100 biofuel in VW engines in Europe are allow to stay in warranty, but not in the U.S.? 3. There are some complications to trying to understand what it means to getting
Re: [biofuel] Diesel VWs: High Mileage Vehicles, Well Kept Secrets?
Thanks for the info. I wonder if we can push for that certification in the United States, and what it will take, both from the company and the government and others? On Wed, 19 May 2004 20:35:51 +0200, you wrote: MM, You asked about VW, Europe and biodiesel. In Europe the VW diesels are certified for RME fuel (biodiesel). The are clearly stating that in the specifications. Hakan At 20:16 19/05/2004, you wrote: I have collected four testimonials to high-mileage VW Diesels that came up in discussion. I have seen many such testimonials over the years, but I have been meaning to make a few points in response to them. These came up recently, in response to reports that the two gasoline hybrids have not been getting as good mileage as they advertise. My comments are below the four testimonials. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Oyama, British Columbia: biofuel business to make ethanol and feed cattle?
I am curious for opinions here not as to the likelihood of making money in investment (anyone can see that's extremely unlikely), but as to their particular technological plans and whether there is good or bad in them. I have copied and pasted part of the quarterly starting with a description of the basic plan. I have got rid of a few drier sections dealing with financing and such, though they were interesting as far as getting some overview of how farfetched their success would be (always a good idea to read such things lest one get too enthusiastic about an investment that is a long-shot). I like the part also about burning manure for some of the energy to make the ethanol. http://biz.yahoo.com/e/040217/hrid.ob10qsb.html Form 10QSB for HYBRID FUELS INC 17-Feb-2004 Quarterly Report [...] The Company's intended business is to sell and build farm scale facilities that integrate beef operations with the production of ethanol. In these facilities, grain, corn or other feedstock is fermented and then distilled to make the ethanol. Left over from the ethanol production process is a high protein mash, called distillers grain and water, called stillage water. These contain nutrients and are therefore used as feed and water for livestock. By using the distillers grain and stillage water on site the animals receive the benefit of the nutrients in these byproducts. In addition, the facilities do not incur the costs of drying the distillers grain and transporting it as would be necessary if it was to be used at another site. A further benefit is that no costs are incurred to dispose of the stillage water. Rather than it being something that is costly to be disposed of, it becomes a valuable feed product. The manure and used bedding straw are cleaned up frequently, thus removing the media in which disease would otherwise grow. They are burned in a gasifier and the heat produced is used in the fermentation and distillation processes. From discussions with the gasifier manufacturer, management believes that sufficient heat will be left over to operate a greenhouse, if the operator so desires. The ethanol is intended to be mixed with a proprietary emulsifier and diesel. When this emulsion was tested at The British Columbia Institute of Technology in June, 1996, in an unaltered diesel engine, it reduced the particulate (black smoke) emissions by over 62% and the NOx emissions by over 22%, without any loss of power. For a more detailed description of the entire process, plus sources of information and references, the reader is referred to the Company's Form 10-KSB for the year ended June 30, 2003, as amended and filed with the SEC. Although there are no operating facilities at the moment, the Company is expecting to have the first facility operating early in 2004, as described below. The Company intends to sell these facilities (except the column and spinner which we intend to lease) to farm operators, preferably those who grow or have access to sufficient grain to supply the facility. Management believes this would be approximately 40,000 bushels of barley (or other suitable grain) per year for a facility that would feed 200 head of cattle on a continuous rotating basis. [...] After the end of the quarter, the foundation, concrete slabs and approximately 75% of the ethanol facility's exterior were completed at Oyama, BC, Canada on approximately six acres of farmland. This location was chosen because it provides the company with good site control and supervisory ability that is important to the completion of the first facility. An operating facility includes the barn and a second building housing the ethanol making equipment, plus the bio-furnace or gasifier, Greener Pastures grass growing system, and the right to use the proprietary information and technology. The cost of building a facility is anticipated to be approximately $350,000. Approximately $220,000 of this cost is for foundations and flooring, buildings, the gasifier, the ethanol making equipment, tanks and machinery. Soft costs, for such items as permits, engineering and other professional fees, survey and layout, site preparation, delivery of buildings and materials, rentals, small tools and miscellaneous, are estimated at $60,000. We estimate we will spend approximately $70,000 for construction labor and supervision. Each facility is expected to accommodate 200 head of cattle. As we near the end of testing the first facility, we plan to begin the finishing operation for the cattle with an initial group of 20 to 25 head. The finishing operation is designed to function on a staggered basis, so that every two weeks (initially) we will bring in an additional 20 to 25 cattle. We will sell the cattle on the same staggered basis as they complete the finishing process. As we gain experience with the facility, we intend to bring cattle in 40 to 50 at a
Re: [biofuel] Anyone know of a good list for saving energy in the home?
Thanks, these look like good ideas, and I do think that, with concommittant behaviour modification, the sort of thing that might save me a little on cooling costs. I think that a lot of conservation efforts require a little effort to learn something a new way, and in some (not all) cases they carry a price in terms of extra time. In this case, my kitchen is conveniently located and I'd be giving that up, (and it has fewer rattle snakes than the outdoor cooking area), but it makes enough sense so I might try it. The indoor-tending thing sounds intruiging, but Id probably start with something a bit simpler. There are a limited number of places even to contemplate going through a wall, in my house. Anyway, if I cook outside, I suspect I'll want to tend to things hands-on a certain amount of the time. I wonder if they would also have fewer fuel-fire concerns and fuel-safety concerns? Hard to say until I try them. Hi MM Have you thought of solar box cookers? There's one kind that fits to an aperture in the kitchen wall - it's outside in the sun, but you can tend it from inside. Also worth thinking about is hay-box cooking. More information and links here: http://journeytoforever.org/sc.html Solar box cookers http://journeytoforever.org/sc_link.html Solar Cooker Resources on the Web Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] USDA: Cattle Brains May Be Turned Into Biofuels
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=585e=3u=/nm/20040517/sc_nm/madcow_waste_dc USDA: Cattle Brains May Be Turned Into Biofuels Mon May 17, 5:36 PM ET Add Science - Reuters to My Yahoo! By Richard Cowan WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Cattle brains and other remains that may carry the deadly mad cow disease would be turned into biofuels under a plan announced on Monday by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (news - web sites). Cattle brains, skull, eyes, spinal column, small intestine and other parts suspected of harboring mad cow disease were banned from human consumption in December as a safety precaution, shortly after the discovery of the first case of mad cow disease in the United States. Some consumer groups have called on the Bush administration to go a step further and ban these specified risk materials from swine, poultry and other animal feed made from ground-up cattle remains. All cattle parts already are banned from cattle feed to protect against the spread of mad cow disease. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (news - web sites) is considering tougher regulations on animal feed since finding the brain-wasting disease in the United States. One month ago, an agency official said FDA was considering banning specified risk materials from poultry and swine feed. Under the new USDA program, a $50 million loan guarantee program would be set up to help small businesses in rural areas develop ways to turn cattle brains and other high-risk parts into a bio-based source of energy. Bill Hagy, a deputy administrator at USDA's rural development agency, said the purpose of the pilot program was to gauge commercial interest and to solicit ideas for alternate energy uses for the cattle parts. There are incinerating facilities out there that possibility could, with some retooling, be able to accommodate the need, Hagy said. But Hagy said he did not know whether the pilot program was aimed at finding new uses for the risky cattle parts if they are banned from all animal feed. A spokeswoman for the National Cattlemen's Beef Association (news - web sites) said her organization supports the USDA pilot program. A wider ban on the high-risk cattle parts has been watched closely by the U.S. soybean futures market. With tight soy supplies in the United States, a significant change in animal feed rules could have a big impact on products that could be used as a substitute in animal feeds, such as soybean meal. Currently, the carcasses of cattle slaughtered at U.S. packing plants are typically sent to a separate rendering plant to be made into food for other animals, cosmetics or other materials. Last year, the United States slaughtered more than 35 million cattle. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Book: Sunshine To Dollars
I wonder why he doesn't seem to talk about biofuels. I wish some folks would at least half-address that biofuels are arguably a product of harvesting solar energy and using it. He does mention biomass as an area he's into, in discussing his general areas of expertise. On Mon, 17 May 2004 12:24:57 -0400, you wrote: Some of what this guys claims in his ad sounds too good to be true. Any comments? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=378item=4211105711rd=1 AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] OT: (fwd) Articles on EVs, PHEVs, batteries from LA Weekly special section
http://www.laweekly.com/ MAY 15 - 21, 2004 Three articles from The Auto Show: Green Machines Hijacked by Hybrids Two local manufacturers hope to win back EV enthusiasts by Rick Kennedy The death of the battery-powered car has been proclaimed far and wide. President Bush tried to make it official last year when he announced that hydrogen would be the fuel of the future, and asked for $1.2 billion to force the issue. Major auto manufacturers have quietly dismantled their fledgling battery fleets even as they fall all over themselves to field hybrid-electric models, eager to duplicate Toyota's runaway success with the Prius. But here in Southern California, there are battery die-hards who haven't yet heard the news. Two local true believers remain determined to put full-size electric vehicles onto the state's freeways: Phoenix Motorcars of Ojai and AC Propulsion of San Dimas. Both have built impressive prototypes, but both also face formidable obstacles. Phoenix's prototype, with a 1937 Cabriolet hot-rod body, is straight out of a ZZ Top video. Phoenix's owners, Dana Muscato and Dan Riegert, say that with volume production they could produce a car with a 100-plus-mile range at a cost competitive with an internal-combustion vehicle. In fact, they already have an order for 20 cars from Electricab, a Sacramento-based taxi company. AC Propulsion has a different goal. The company set its sights on top-end sports-car owners. Their tzero prototype has a custom sports-coupe body, and with electro-drive's unbeatable torque it smoked a Ferrari, a Corvette and a Porsche in head-to-head races in 2000. Anticipating a strong demand, AC Propulsion began taking deposits on production models. Despite such promising starts, however, both enterprises have ground to a halt. AC Propulsion, the more established of the two companies, has retreated to its staple of making and selling electro-drive components. Phoenix's owners spend their time soliciting investors. What happened? The answer is a tale of a technology whose time has either passed, has not yet come, or may become fatally ensnared in legal tangles, depending on whom you ask. The chief knock on electric vehicles has always been that they don't have enough range for the mass market. With the advent of lithium-ion batteries, the type used in cell phones and laptops, a battery pack with a 300-mile range is now a reality. Without mass-production economies of scale, though, cost estimates for such a battery run from $20,000 to $80,000. That was a major factor in AC Propulsion's decision to go after higher-end customers rather than wait for the price to come down. Once upon a time, the future of EVs seemed bright. Following California's 1990 Zero-Emissions-Vehicle law, which mandated that by 2003, 10 percent of cars sold in the state would have to be emissions-free, the big three in Detroit and several foreign companies were all making battery-electric vehicles. Riegert and Muscato originally wanted to open an electric-car dealership in July of 2000, hoping to catch what they thought would be a wave of new cars coming on the market. Then, the automakers sued, and the courts blocked implementation of the mandate. Finally, in 2003, California eased the restriction to allow gas vehicles modified to control emissions and gas-electric hybrids to count toward the no-emissions mandate. Tepid sales led major manufacturers to discontinue production after about 5,000 electrics hit the road. General Motors did lease about 1,000 of its battery-electric, the EV-1, but is scrapping them as the leases run out, over the objections of its fiercely loyal fans. With Bush and the automakers looking elsewhere, investment in the technology for full-size battery cars evaporated. Of 35 different companies Riegert and Muscato viewed as potential suppliers for their dealership, none ever produced a single car. They realized that if they wanted to sell electric cars, they would have to produce them as well. Then, hybrid vehicles came onto the scene. Using a gas engine to either charge the battery, run the electric drive motor, or both, depending on the configuration, hybrids have the range of a traditional car but also many of the advantages of an electric. The fact that they can use a smaller gas engine and run it at a constant speed means they boast excellent fuel economy --the 20005 Toyota Prius, for example, gets a combined 58 miles per gallon. Electric purists, however, argue that the hybrid is an imperfect compromise at best. They still emit pollutants, says Leni Goldberg, president of the Electric Vehicle Association of Southern California. You still have to find the oil, pump it out of the ground, refine it, all of which is destructive. Some electric-vehicle fans are more forgiving of hybrids. Ed Kjaer, director of Alternative-Fuel Transportation for Southern California Edison, oversees the utility's fleet of roughly
[biofuel] Re: Marin County Manure Generator
Thanks for posting this Mage. I was going to. I really liked this article. MM On Fri, 14 May 2004 12:29:00 -0600, you wrote: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/05/14/BAGJG6LG3R15.DTL AGRICULTURE 270 cows generating electricity for farm Methane digester also breaks down waste After 25 years of persistent work, Marin County rancher Albert Straus has figured out a way to run his dairy farm, organic creamery and electric car from the manure generated by his herd of 270 cows. Cheered on by a small gathering of engineers, environmentalists and fellow farmers, Straus stepped into a utility shed Thursday, switched on a 75- kilowatt generator, then stepped outside to snip the ribbon spanning a spanking-new electrical panel. On the panel, an electricity meter began running backward, indicating that power originating from a nearby poop-filled lagoon near the town of Marshall was feeding into PGE's electric power grid. Well, said Straus, with an understated shrug, that was exciting. But for Straus, as well as for many of the spectators, switching on the farm's new $280,000 methane digester system was not just a personal milestone -- it signaled an environmental breakthrough for the state's dairy industry. While the technology for farm-based methane production has been around for two decades, economics and resistance from the utility industry have prevented all but a handful of California farmers from transforming their animal waste into energy. While there are 1,950 commercial dairies in operation in California -- which leads the nation in the production of milk and cheese -- and nearly 2 million dairy cows, Straus' methane digester is only the fifth now operating in the state. But thanks to two pieces of recent legislation, 13 additional methane systems are now under construction, and renewable-energy advocates predict that scores more are sure to follow. The Straus project is the first of 14 methane projects to receive matching funds from the California Energy Commission, one result of the rolling blackouts that plagued the state during the summer of 2001. There was an emergency session (of the state Legislature) to create fixes to the energy problem, said Mike Marsh, president of Western United Dairymen. One thing they funded was renewable energy in the form of methane digesters. A $10 million pool of matching funds for farmers wishing to install methane digesters was created that year, followed in 2003 by a law allowing utilities to set up net metering agreements with small biogas generators. With net metering, small producers like Straus can reduce or erase their energy bills but cannot be paid for pumping excess energy into the grid. Net metering has been available to owners of home solar systems for several years. The Straus Farms' covered-lagoon methane generator, powered by methane billowing off a covered pool of decomposing bovine waste, is expected to save the operation between $5,000 and $6,000 per month in energy costs. With those savings, Straus estimates he will pay back his capital investment in two to three years. But the benefits go beyond the strictly financial. An innovator who converted his family's dairy to organic a decade ago, Straus is a committed environmentalist who has worked for decades to make his operation clean, sustainable and environmentally friendly. In addition to the energy savings, Straus' new methane digester will eliminate tons of naturally occurring greenhouse gases and strip 80 to 99 percent of organic pollutants from the wastewater generated from his family's 63-year-old dairy farm. Heat from the generator warms thousands of gallons of water that may be used to clean farm facilities and to heat the manure lagoon. And wastewater left over after the methane is extracted, greatly deodorized, is used for fertilizing the farm's fields. This is a great project, and I hope it will be replicated many times, Straus said. Transforming animal waste into a useful product potentially could solve some serious problems that accompany the dairy and livestock industries. Despite their gentle demeanor and big brown eyes, dairy cows present some troubling environmental challenges. A well-fed dairy cow produces 120 pounds of manure every day, or 40,000 pounds per year per animal. Manure-laden farm runoff pollutes surface and groundwater with coliform bacteria and nitrogen. And then there's the flatulence. Researchers have estimated that a single cow can emit 100 to 200 liters of methane per day, not including the methane that continues to be generated as bacteria break down the mounds of manure. This naturally occurring methane is a potent greenhouse gas, estimated to be 21 times as damaging to the ozone layer as carbon dioxide. The environmental benefits of transforming methane to energy are obvious. Even if the captured methane is simply burned off with a flare, the result is
[biofuel] Record drought dims hydropower outlook in US Northwest
The thing is: I don't see any discussion groups where we are making some of the connections that should perhaps be made, so I'll take a shot: 1. Is this drought global warming related? If so, does burning more fossil fuel to satisfy the shortfall in hydroelectric power actually in some way make the problem worse? 2. If there will be a power pricing and availability problem this summer, how will that problem interact with the ongoing price-increase issue with fuel? If Diesel generators will be fired up to cover power shortfalls, at what price will this occur? 3. Are we headed toward a severe power crisis as we had two or three years ago, or something more mild? 4. There is still a lot of hand-wringing and worrying and what-not over the drought and the forest fire problem, but very little movement (that I can see) to culling forest fuel (wood) and using it to generate moderate amounts of energy (if it has to be culled in some areas anyway). I don't understand how we cannot put 2+2 together, and see that if wood is a problem where it is too much fuel lying around, and we also have insufficient fuel to make power, then why not combine addressing the two problems? Who gives a damn that it would not solve more than a modest part of the problem? It might be progress. Heaven forfend. http://www.forbes.com/home/newswire/2004/05/14/rtr1372387.html Record drought dims hydropower outlook in US Northwest Reuters, 05.14.04, 3:51 PM ET By Leonard Anderson SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Electric utilities in the U.S. Pacific Northwest face another tough summer as a record drought slashes available supplies of hydroelectricity, the main power source in the region. Northwest investor-owned utilities like Idacorp Inc. , parent of Idaho's biggest utility Idaho Power, and Avista Corp. in Spokane, Washington, must turn to generation fueled by more expensive coal and natural gas to make up hydro shortfalls. The Northwest, which depends on hydropower for 65 percent of its electricity supply, is in the fifth year of a drought, the driest five-year stretch since hydro record-keeping began in 1929, according to the Bonneville Power Administration, a federal power marketing agency based in Portland, Oregon. California, which relied on summer imports of Northwest hydro to keep the lights on during its power crisis in 2000-2001, may be able to draw some supplies from the region this summer, said BPA spokesman Ed Mosey. We don't expect that we won't be able to help out for some peaking power in an emergency. But California also will have to get more supplies of fossil-fueled generation and that will drive up power prices for the entire West, Mosey said. [etc.] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Hybrid Mileage Comes Up Short
In my view, it is long overdue that the EPA should improve its tests to reflect real-world mileage and not their out-of-touch lab work. http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1 Hybrid cars are hot, but not as hot as their owners, who complain that their gas mileage hasn't come close to well-advertised estimates. Don't knock the car companies for inflated claims: Experts say the blame lies with the 19-year-old EPA fuel-efficiency test that overstates hybrid performance. Pete Blackshaw was so excited about getting a hybrid gasoline-electric car that he had his wife videotape the trip to the Honda dealership to pick up his Civic Hybrid. The enthusiastic owner ordered a customized license plate with MO MILES on it, and started a blog about his new hybrid lifestyle. But after a few months of commuting to his job in Cincinnati, Blackshaw's hybrid euphoria vanished as his car's odometer revealed that the gas mileage he was hoping for was only a pipe dream. Honda's Civic Hybrid is rated by the EPA to get 47 miles per gallon in the city, and 48 mpg on the highway. After nearly 1,000 miles of mostly city driving, Blackshaw was getting 31.4 mpg. I feel like a complete fraud driving around Cincinnati with a license plate that says MO MILES, says Blackshaw, who claims that after 4,000 miles his car has never gotten more than 33 mpg on any trip. The tenor of Blackshaw's blog shifted from adulation to frustration after his Honda dealer confirmed that his car was functioning properly, and that there was nothing he could do. [etc.] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Ford CEO sees upside to higher U.S. gas prices
Wonder if they'll note that EVs and PHEVs can perhaps get better mileage than any vehicle anywhere. Probably they'll get around to it. And maybe they'll also note the excellent-mileage biodiesel-burning diesel vehicles. Eventually. http://www.forbes.com/newswire/2004/05/13/rtr1370745.html Ford CEO sees upside to higher U.S. gas prices Reuters, 05.13.04, 2:26 PM ET [] Ford said the No. 2 U.S. automaker was pouring enormous resources into the development of gas-electric hybrid vehicles, and alternate fuel vehicles as well. But until recently, in the face of surging gasoline price hikes, he said more fuel efficient cars and trucks were of little interest to the average U.S. car buyer. The company was caught in the uncomfortable position of trying to move our vehicles to a more fuel-efficient future and yet having the demand pulled the other way, Ford said, explaining that U.S. customers seemed to want only bigger engines and bigger vehicles. Now, however, Ford told an environmental activist who questioned him at the meeting, gas prices could help drive customer behavior the way you'd like to see it. In the rest of the world you don't have this disconnect as much, said Ford, speaking of the clash between consumer preferences and a society's overall environmental goals. In Europe where gasoline prices are very high you have CO-2 reduction path that is coming down quite nicely, Ford said, referring to carbon dioxide emissions. It's because there's a convergence of pocketbook issues with society issues, he added, saying the same thing may soon prove true in the United States. If it does, he added, cleaner-burning vehicles will be not just a social imperative, but also a business opportunity, Ford said. Copyright 2004, Reuters News Service Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Catastrophe has hit!
On Wed, 12 May 2004 17:26:29 +0900, you wrote: Steve Spence seems to have solved his problems. - Keith Yes, that seemed sudden, although I don't think we've heard the last of those problems if they involved job loss and medical issues. Not to minimize the sort of odd pendulum swing you seem to point out, going from catastrophe to seeming end-of-problems, just to say I don't think they look done. I'll repost here what I posted in his group when I donated, as it also slightly relates to here: By the way, I'm going to donate a small amount of money to your cause (i.e. appropriate to my own means and income) and the reason, aside from general good will which is also certainly a factor, is similar to the one I used in donating money to Keith's page: I've been making free unpaid use of the service you've been providing, it's been a very valuable service to me and I appreciate it. No one asks for any money for these valuable discussion areas, and the system isn't really in place, in our society, for money to flow to such areas as businesses, but I won't stand on ceremony waiting for internet business models to catch up with that, and so part of the reason I'm sending money aside from general good will is just payment for a good service rendered. - Totally off-topic, but I want to add that a relative recently went through a home purchase and an escrow closing and the closing took 23 days longer than scheduled. One of the ways in which this was a nightmare is that he had put his home-business on hold until he could finish the move. So, his income levels were interrupted at an important time of financial upheaval. I think there are a lot of people with stories like this to tell, about when they move and the issues that come up in that process. I don't have a sense of whether this problem has a different flavor in the U.S.
[biofuel] Toyota
Thanks for passing on this anecdote relating the opinion of a person at Toyota. I think it's of some use to try to piece together what some executives at these companies are thinking and seeing. As I think this out, I'm not sure, but I think it may be the first time I've ever seen any executive anywhere at an auto company verify, even just fourth-hand, even just by incidental reference, that they have a problem defying the wishes of the Oil industry. I mean: the first time I've really seen this in writing. My take on Toyota, and some of the other companies such as Honda (the first to introduce a hybrid to the U.S.), is that they have approached some of these matters like this: they are ahead of many (not all, but many), of the alt-fuel and better-mileage efforts of the other companies. Therefore, so the reasoning goes, they can get away with (for now) not pushing the envelope too much to the point where it might violate any de facto (explicit or implicit) edicts they have received from those who supply fuel for their products. Thus, for example, we see Toyota doing a pretty good EV, and knowing that some of its customers in the U.S. want to keep it, and buy more (such as the Utility SCE which has owned two or three hundred and would be glad to keep many of them or buy more) but they hide behind the usual... liability law concerns, supposed lack of demand, costs too high... whatever excuses seem handy. Other tactics include I think preserving plausible deniability for some executives... By this I mean that they may keep themselves unaware that there is demand for alternatives. It seems to me I heard of one incident where Greg Hansen, a California Activist for EVs, was able to get this through, very slightly, at a meeting a few years ago where a Toyota executive claimed that consumer demand had been poor for the RAV4 EV (or something like that... it's been awhile since I heard this story) and Hansen, in a particularly lucid exchange held forth from the audience that the RAV4 EV HAD NEVER BEEN OFFERED TO CONSUMERS in California. If I recall (and I might not be correct) it had been offered as a lease (but not a purchase to fleet people). The Executive seemed unaware of this and soon thereafter Toyota did allegedly make the RAV4 available to consumers not only by lease but by purchase. But they only did it at 25 or so California dealerships, only in limited numbers (that ended once they were all bought up), etc. Apologies if this story has inaccuracies... it's been awhile. So, what we see here, is this idea of Toyota being slightly different, a little bit ahead, but (after pushing the envelope a little) still returning in the end to comply with the (apparently) worldwide in-force rule against any major manufacturer making it possible for consumers to *consider* buying a vehicle that does not push them into using petroleum-industry fuel. Consumers are then inaccurately informed that they have allegedly considered and rejected such vehicles. This is an addition of insult-to-injury that we may be surprised to see honorable executives at 'better' companies contribute to, but I think it is what it is. Many of us, myself included, are admirers of Toyota, above many other companies, but when a friend or an admired person or an admired company lies, sometimes we don't know what to say, except to point it out. I'm sorry Toyota, but you're not telling the truth. Period. You're fudging. Stop it. We've had it. This is not to say that your friend or acquaintance was lying... When I talk about lying I mean that Toyota and a few others get away with their real policy (adhering to fuel company wishes, for now) while fudging things in public and stating a somewhat different set of reasonings (i.e.: claiming that nobody wants thus-and-such vehicles, or that the economics of mass production do not apply to certain technologies, or that emissions are allegedly too much of a problem of thus-and-such vehicle-and-fuel combination, or that PHEV vehicles are not for now an idea worth pursuing, etc.) MM On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:55:19 +0900, you wrote: Yes, true. A couple of years ago Tokyo's populist mayor, a far rightwing buffoon named Ishihara, launched a cheap-vote-catching campaign against diesels, the DieselNo! campaign: cure the symptom instead of the disease. The main complaint is the usual one in such cases, NOx. Everyone's frightened of confronting the petroleum lobby, so that doesn't come into it, and the automakers decided to jump on the bandwagon for the sake of the short-term gains to be made from selling more new cars. So, there are more and more restrictions on diesels, especially diesel cars, and it's spreading beyond Tokyo. Not many Japanese seem to know that the Japanese automakers do make highly efficient, very clean, diesel cars, but only for export, to Europe, not for Japan. A Toyota executive who got interested in biofuels wrote to me and said this, among other things:
[biofuel] I wonder if Biodiesel would work well in these (Claimed) Low-emission High-Efficiency Hybrid Train Locomotives?
http://www.railpower.com/greengoat.php For those curious, their stock symbol on yahoo is p.to, the 'to' standing for the toronto stock exchange. MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] In the works: OFF Grid College and Retirement Community - biofuel advice needed
On Sun, 9 May 2004 15:05:24 -0500, you wrote: In the works: OFF Grid College and Retirement Community A small group of families have gone together to purchase a decommissioned radar base on the thumb of MI. It is being converted into an off-grid college campus and retirement community that will teach all the off-grid technologies, skilled trades, as well as the normal college level academics. It has dorms, classrooms, dinning hall, gym, handball courts, tennis courts, bowling alley, places for short-term RVs parking, and much more --- 20 acres. It is about 1 mile from some of the best beaches in Michigan. Port Ausin has about the cleanest air in the nation as it has prevailing winds that blow across 400 miles of fresh water, Great Lake Huron. We are looking into biofuels for all our energy requirements. We plan to grow all of our own certified organic foods. Cross-pollination is not an issue because of the air currents. With all this talk of wind, I can't help but suggest asking the local experts if installation of a small amount of wind generation might be appropriate. Dunno how it would affect the agricultural issues. When I went to consult with someone recently about putting in some solar or wind, one interesting thing that seemed to come up was that the load leveling required for wind seemed to point toward the off-grid sort of approach, which mandated a different inverter and additional expense for batteries, while I ultimately opted for the grid-connected approach with the solar I got. Again, we are looking at ways to provide all of our on energy needs, food/nutritional/health needs, and financial needs. I'm seeking industrial ways that we can generate the money and resources to see that all people want to come, have the means to come. We need everyone's' ideas, input, and efforts. A friend of mine once had an idea that retirement homes and-or nursing homes would be a place to have an operation to care for animals, either a pet hotel sort of thing, or perhaps something different, because there is some symbiosis in the goals. Some old folks, for example, might respond well to the tasks of caring for a dog or some such, if and as they might need some companionship and-or challenges to keep their days fuller. It might make the community more attractive to some potential inhabitants if they know they might have some future potential activities along those lines. 'Course many will be able to come up with negatives to this, such as the health of seniors as it might be affected with having a lot of animals around. I am for consideration of the idea that it could be done. MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] EPA to Finalize Diesel Pollution Rules Tuesday
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=585e=1u=/nm/20040510/sc_nm/environment_diesel_dc 2 hours, 18 minutes ago Add Science - Reuters to My Yahoo! By Chris Baltimore WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration will finalize rules on Tuesday to cut air pollution from tractors, bulldozers and other off-road diesel vehicles by over 90 percent, the Environmental Protection Agency (news - web sites) said on Monday. Fuel refiners will be required to produce diesel fuel by 2012 that is 99 percent free of smog-causing nitrogen oxides under the new rules, which the EPA proposed a year ago. Also, Cummins Inc., Caterpillar Inc. and others will have to sell engines starting in 2008 that strip out more harmful particles in emissions linked to asthma and other serious respiratory ailments. EPA Administrator Mike Leavitt briefed President Bush (news - web sites) on the rules on Monday and said the agency will finalize the rules on Tuesday. Leavitt likened the rules to the government's decision in the 1970s to remove lead from gasoline. This is a big deal, Leavitt told reporters at the White House. This kind of thing only happens once or twice every 25 years. [etc.] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: [Appropriate Community] Catastrophe has hit!
On Mon, 10 May 2004 16:21:23 -, you wrote: Steve and Linda need help, please see http://www.green-trust.org for particulars. When you move into a new house, there are a lot of immediate challenges. Although you have a lot of those cool technologies already installed, I'm sure there will be a lot of 1st and 2nd year to-dos on your list, some having to do with sustainable technologies, and others of a more mundane nature. Maybe a way to kill two birds with one stone would be to offer a seminar or two this summer. I'm guessing that you have some practical hands-on knowledge of those technologies that others might benefit from. For a fee to each person, you could offer them a bed or sofa to sleep on for a week or two, and they could come for that time and help with fixing and improving the sustainable technologies, learn more about them, etc. Sort of the way Mark gives biodiesel classes, but more extended. I am partial to that part of the country, being from Albany, and so although I guess it could get hot and humid in the summer, I can think of worse things to try to market to an outgoing person than spending a week or two in far upstate NY, roughing it a bit, but learning a whole bunch about making fuel and fixing a home's sustainable technology devices, and maybe having an unforgettable summer vacation/learning experience. There are also some summer camps up there and the kids could probably benefit from a day field-trip to a 5 acre spread chock-full of such experiences. Well, just a sort of brainstorming idea for you. Unfortunately, I have to admit it looks like you would have no time for such a project, since you'll be looking for work, unless there was so much response that you could turn to it with confidence as your new full-time profitable work. And until your wife feels better, then maybe that would take her out of the picture to an extent as far as helping run any profitable seminars or classes. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EPA to Finalize Diesel Pollution Rules Tuesday
Yes, I wondered the same thing. I think the question of how much NOx might come from biodiesel is somewhat complex, depending on the fuel and the engine? On the rest of the emissions issues, I think it is not disputed that Biodiesel would be a help. The 2007 sulfur-reduction date is a disappointment I think. On Mon, 10 May 2004 21:48:26 -0400, you wrote: I wonder if this will have any effect on the sale and use of biodiesel in the US, since its nitrous oxide levels are higher than petro diesel? The article seems to stress that the reduction in nitrous oxide levels are their focus. Chris murdoch wrote: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=585e=1u=/nm/20040510/sc_nm/environment_diesel_dc Fuel refiners will be required to produce diesel fuel by 2012 that is 99 percent free of smog-causing nitrogen oxides under the new rules, which the EPA proposed a year ago. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: smartcar
Thanks for the info. If true, this would fill in a gap. I've heard from several builders of proposed city type cars, or smaller cars that were at highway speeds or maybe only went to city speeds, that some sort of problem like this with DOT regs is the factor in preventing them from reasonable access to U.S. markets. The REVA people, when I spoke to them, were already on the road with hundreds of cars in India and maybe one or two other places, and were keen to come to the US, if not for this type of problem with DOT regs. The car was designed here but had to be made and sold elsewhere. Funny, but I've never heard anyone go over this issue outside of these discussion groups and outside of industry people. I don't think I've ever seen a news article on it. About the Honda you mention: I never knew about that tiny little Honda until I saw an ad for their resurrection of the small little convertible idea and they had some history of the matter as to the first car they brought here. MM On Mon, 10 May 2004 08:36:43 +, you wrote: Hi, Back in the mid-70s Honda began importing into the US market their first car. Earlier they had just imported motocycles. A friend of mine had one and he loved it. Unfortunately, after a couple of years that model was discontinued and Honda only imported larger vehicles. I was told that the DOT regulations were changed to require cars to have a longer wheel base than that early Honda. At the time, I thought it was for safety reasons. Now, I wonder if there wasn't some other reason why those regulations were put into place. Anyway, when I lived in Europe in the 80s, I often saw neat small city cars, like the Fiat 500 and the original Mini. Again, I was told they weren't exported to the US market because they were too small to meet regulations. So...my take on why the VW Lupo and the MB Smart Car aren't in the US market is based on these DOT regulations, not on some sort of problem with the engine. And, that is why they are considering an upsized model of the Smart Car in 2006 for the US market. If we want to see these small fuel efficient models in the US market, even just for city/town use, something needs to be done about the DOT regulations which require a minimum wheel base. Derek I wonder, will Smart make the little SUV (Smart Urban Vehicle?) weigh in at 6,000 lbs to qualify for the tax write-off? ;) Ryan -Original Message- From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 7:38 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: smartcar RE: name...Maybe SUV Sport Utlity Vehicle is a name that needs reclamation anyway...the ones out there now are neither sporty nor utilitarian. Edward Beggs On Thursday, May 6, 2004, at 07:51 PM, Brian wrote: Smart does have plans to start marketing in the US in 2006. They are designing an SUV for our market, and not planning to market the fortwo here. Isn't Smart SUV an oxymoron? I'm thinking that the name of the company says it all when it comes to why they're not selling in the US. No market for such a product here. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 6 May 2004 17:11:34 -0500, you wrote: Murdoch, Isn't this partly an issue of Ultra-Low-Sulfur Diesel not being commonly available here, yet, the way it is in Europe? If the fuel appropriate to how they designed the engine were common, wouldn't they be more inclined to sell the vehicle here? I'm not familiar with the fuel requirements of the Lupo. However, ULSD is only a few years away in the US, market wide. Todd Swearingen I think, by one measure, a few years is probably not that much time. A refinery engineer, looking at the costs or difficulties, might have a thing or two to tell us about this. But at the same time, I think this few years has been part of why we haven't seen the advent of such cars as the LUPO or many other affordable promising mileage-oriented excellent New-Diesel- Technology vehicles in the U.S. It could even be used as a pretext to prevent (for awhile) admitting the Smart Car. Apparently, though, the diesel fuel in Canada won't take the engine out of warranty, so I don't know about that. As I mentioned, with respect to the Smart Car, I think we should anticipate that devilish pretexts will be used to delay or prevent admission of something as promising looking as the Smart Car. If I'm wrong, then I will be the happiest about this. I am just erring on the side of assuming that the opposition (for want of a better way to put a face to a name) will not discontinue operations because we've finally found a promising alternative. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org
Re: [biofuel] city density versus per capita travel energy used
My comment: I read Keith Addison's forward to the biofuel list a week or two ago, from the homestead list with what I thought of as a somewhat one-sided predictive view of what will or would happen in a fuel pricing crisis. This person was very focused on using wood in cars, and how society's economics and behaviour might change around that aspect. Briefly, MM, as I've already explained, he was quite specifically talking to homesteaders, not trying to provide a general solution: ... become able to produce your own fuel for your tractors, automobiles, house heat. Please see: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/34006/ Yeah, I already read that. There was a bit of a difference, in my view, between the points you made, which are already common discussion points here, and the points the other person was making. Anyway, I liked the post, and am not one to ignore that his intended audience and context were different than here, so my point wasn't exactly to disagree with it, but to take his points and go in a different direction than the author had done. Re fuel prices, it's quite often said here, including by Americans, that US fuel is way too cheap, that fuel-use there won't be sane until it costs US$5 at the pump and make it quick. Have a look at this article, I think you'll find the graphic at the end interesting: http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0413/p02s02-usec.html Despite high gas prices, Americans keep on driving Yes, I hadn't seen that article, but of course I am familiar with these issues. I will say it probably does reflect accurately quite a bit of Americans' views on vehicle choices and fuel purchase decisions, but one grain of salt to take with it is to differentiate what people say they will do, and what they will actually do. There are some subtleties here to how we craft predictions that I think are interesting. As I said awhile back, it would be interesting to include how much time prices stay at a certain point, and not just talk about the point. Now we see this graphic, which does that. So: good. Likewise, I'd like to see some accounting of other subtleties. If prices stay at those points, for that amount of time, for example, many of the respondents might suffer a downturn in their employment positions and-or their buying power. If such a scenario were layed out for them, in those terms (i.e., if your family's income were lowered by 20% during those 6 months, while the costs of fuel were simultaneously at those points), I think their responses might differ a bit. But maybe not. It's not a piece of cake to trade in a car and get another one. There are costs to the process, in time and money and fixing the new used car that you get. Some people will choose the drive-less option. Anyway, it does appear that we are still in a price-band where many American consumers don't care, while others do care, or are even getting hysterical enough to get on the news. Not all consumers are the same. Best Keith I am not against trying to see how increasing use of wood as fuel (in all manner of ways, and not just in vehicles) is going to play a role in our society it's a great fuel, it's been part of our nation's energy mix since the beginning (you can find the charts showing the breakdown in percentage energy use, and wood has always been there, in one percentage or another), and not only is it one of nature's ways of providing us with wonderful solar energy, but it is a double-positive because harvesting some more wood (but avoiding needlessly denuding our areas) could help us reduce fire risk... something we're all simultaneously concerned about. But I think the reaction of U.S. Citizens and world citizens to any fuel pricing crisis, or fuel pricing evolutionary efforts, will be more diverse than the impression I got from that essay. One reaction, I think, will be for those who have had it with car fuel pricing, and who might have the flexibility in their individual lives to do so, to move to those cities that have some decent public transportation, dump their cars (and the attendant high insurance rates, and the attendant high other Total Costs of Vehicle Ownership), or use them less, and either walk or take public transportation to a wide variety of their daily needs, perhaps occassionally borrowing or renting or ride-sharing a vehicle (or some other innovative service) if they occassionally need one outside of those areas serviced. Every individual is in a different situation, and many might not be able to give consideration to this solution, but I think, for some, it will be part of what they will consider doing, if the price of gas, and other prices for cars, (and the price of their time sitting in cars) becomes too high. -- In Order to Survive We Must Build Upwards A table from an E-mail This information is from an Email from Murray Duffin. Note the
[biofuel] Will rising gas prices change our habits?
This one from San Diego County, by an economist apparently, was more in depth than the usual analysis. The author actually pointed out the difficulty of changing vehicles, and that some studies do indicate that the price of gas is playing some role in car-buying habits, even if it is not a simple matter of immediately rushing out to trade in the most fuel-guzzling for the most fuel-saving vehicles. http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/05/09/business/news/19_26_105_8_04.txt Will rising gas prices change our habits? By: EDMOND JACOBY - Staff Writer NORTH COUNTY There is more to expensive gasoline than just high gas prices. Motorists complain loudly about the current price of fuel, but so far, that is all that most of them have done complain although there is some evidence that a more substantive reaction may be just around the corner. There is a way to hold down total fuel expense while continuing to drive in a rising gasoline market, but Californians, and Americans in general, have shown no stomach for it lately: drive smaller, more efficient cars instead of behemoth sport utility vehicles and overweight luxury sedans that have dominated the growth. [etc.] . Indeed, some switching is already taking place among current buyers, many of whom admitted to switching to better-economy models instead of their originally intended new vehicle. The change did not necessarily mean a would-be SUV buyer switched to an economy sedan, but many opted for SUVs with smaller engines, smaller and lighter SUVs or two-wheel-drive instead of four-wheel-drive versions. Another survey conducted April 12 and 13 by Progressive Insurance, the country's third-largest auto insurance company, found that the sharp rise in gas prices is causing some folks to rethink their driving habits, combining trips or staying put instead of hitting the road. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] smartcar, mini convertible
In addition to this immediate good buzz over the Smartcar, I want to add that I saw a news blurb on the Mini Convertible the other day that made me want to go out and buy one *immediately*. My reaction was basically: Oh *YEAH*! The blurb (or was it an ad?) showed the MiniCon on a cleared-away street in NYC burning some rubber in a sort of turn or donut. Now, it's not the same issue, because the Mini is not Biodiesel powered, and in reality I won't be switching to any of these but will be sticking with my reliable gasoline transportation for some years until I can work out some of the financial issues, but in the ideal I guess maybe I'd like one of each. Sometimes I have to wonder why it takes manufacturers so long to figure out consumer demand. With all their kvetching and hand-wringing and paying of millions of dollars to marketing consultants, what part of there's obviously some sort of niche (if not more) market here don't they understand? I was talking to a guy who drives a Ford Thunderbird Convertible, one of the ones made recently, not a vintage model. I don't know much about the car, but it certainly caught my eye. He said he loved it and bought it soon after it came out when it was quite affordable (somewhere in the low $30s or less?), but that Ford had chosen to raise the price so much recently (up past the $50s and more?) that it was completely out of control and that now it was going to be discontinued or something. Maybe they had only planned on making a limited number anyway? Whenever I hear such a story from Detroit, I have to wonder. Do they understand that there's no law against making vehicles in the same beautiful shapes and designs as 50 years ago? Sure, many cars of today are well-designed, but there's a reason you see and hear some of this enthusiasm for retro vehicles and niche vehicles. It also makes to wonder as to some of the arguments we have heard with respect to Plug-In hybrids and EVs. We hear that there is no demand (without the vehicles ever having been made widely for sale... what a cruel piece of rotten ill-intended logic) and that the costs of limited production are too high, and that the liabilities on such limited production are prohibitive. Now the limited production done for something like a Ford Thunderbird is no doubt many multiples of that of a highway capable EV done under duress to satisfy one state's mandate. But there is ample evidence, in my view, that a good highway capable EV or PIHEV would be sufficiently in demand (if made widely available which has *never* happened) so as to approach these allegedly impossible-to-turn-a-profit limited production numbers of other vehicles. Every day that passes with the price of fuel showing signs it has enterred a new era is an opportunity for the major car manufacturers to change some of this tune. They just need to be advised (and this includes the allegedly better ones such as Honda and Toyota) that when they go and say that maybe 'now' consumers are ready to provide demand for PIHEVs (especially diesel PIHEVs to make them more convenient to do biofuel on the IC engine side) and EVs, it will be *remembered* by a small number of us that they dragged their feet and took years and decades longer than necessary to fudge and come to that conclusion. On Sun, 09 May 2004 06:58:50 -0700, you wrote: Ships with massive Enduro go kart tanks, a 24 lift kit, 33 tires... and loaded with 3 tons of biodiesel. You never have to buy fuel, for the life of the car, and they get the writeoff. And the most amazing part is, the more you drive it, the better the acceleration and fuel economy become...well, up a pointbut when it finally runs out of fuel, you just go and get a new one. ;-) On Saturday, May 8, 2004, at 11:47 PM, Ryan Morgan wrote: I wonder, will Smart make the little SUV (Smart Urban Vehicle?) weigh in at 6,000 lbs to qualify for the tax write-off? ;) Ryan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Our new off grid home
On Mon, 10 May 2004 01:09:49 +0900, you wrote: I have exciting news to share. Today we closed on our off grid home in 5 acres of woods. PV, Wind, Rain Water filled Cistern, Veggie Oil powered VW Rabbit generator, wood heat, etc. Paradise! I will be sharing photo's and construction articles as we expand and improve our little slice of heaven. Expansion of the rain harvester/cistern, and solar water heater with wood backup is the first order of business. Steve Spence http://www.green-trust.org Congratulations Steve! What you've wanted for so long. Best wishes Keith That sounds like a serious score. Enough acreage to stretch his wings in a number of ways, and more progressive technologies than I imagine usually come with almost any house, even one lived in by open-minded sustainably-minded progressive people. When I bought my place (which in a number of ways does not meet the level of score that he made) I found that it was somewhat hard to find such a place, and to get realtors even to make me aware of them. Even something as simple as getting home insurance with good credit can be difficult for a home that is not cut from the usual cloth. I live in a fire-prone area where everyone is allegedly concerned to mitigate risk, and the risk affects all of us, and yet even though I went well out of my way to buy one of the most fire-resistant homes in the State, the insurance companies just on general principle were of a mind to reject what was different or unknown to them. It is a myth, in my view, that the capitalistic process works perfectly in this sense to encourage construction of items less likely to result in an insurance payout. Anyway, back to the point, for folks who know in their hearts that they want to make their home purchase consistent, if possible, with some of their sustainability efforts, I encourage them to insist on their goals. They may meet a lot of resistance that may cause them to doubt themselves. Forewarned is fore-armed, so I am passing on (i.e.: warning) that many many people in the real estate business and others, up to and including folks who have some mind and awareness and enthusiasm for sustainability issues, will discourage you from buying a ready-made home along the lines of what you've decided you want (and there is plenty of variance amongst sustainably-minded people as to what they want everything from materials to shape to features is up for debate). You can build your own, which I did not do, but I have the feeling that in a large percentage of cases, this turns out to be a longer haul (both financially and emotionally) than the owners allow themselves to be aware of when they first get into it. This is not to discourage such an impulse... (in fact with a sustainable technology type home, I think it may sometimes be the only way, and I think this particular decision is *very* individual-situation dependent) but to lay out some of what I encountered. All in all I'm extremely pleased that I insisted on things to be my way, and not the way I was told it was normally done, and it looks to me like we could be hearing a lot from Steve, along the same lines. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] city density versus per capita travel energy used
Was cleaning up my hard drive today, and ran across this document. Don't know where I got it, but I found it useful. I posted it as a file here: http://f6.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QDydQJJxKKBOUr2w8qz2p3UNNIzESJFi-hZ5CIUQGJUP9qg9xwbUX3ObpGJeD0rtb2g2aJN2oILGnPapJjTW/City%20Density%20V%20Travel.doc and I will copy and paste it below (about four paragraphs down), although the whole point is the table, and I'm not sure how well that will translate to being pasted as text: --- My comment: I read Keith Addison's forward to the biofuel list a week or two ago, from the homestead list with what I thought of as a somewhat one-sided predictive view of what will or would happen in a fuel pricing crisis. This person was very focused on using wood in cars, and how society's economics and behaviour might change around that aspect. I am not against trying to see how increasing use of wood as fuel (in all manner of ways, and not just in vehicles) is going to play a role in our society it's a great fuel, it's been part of our nation's energy mix since the beginning (you can find the charts showing the breakdown in percentage energy use, and wood has always been there, in one percentage or another), and not only is it one of nature's ways of providing us with wonderful solar energy, but it is a double-positive because harvesting some more wood (but avoiding needlessly denuding our areas) could help us reduce fire risk... something we're all simultaneously concerned about. But I think the reaction of U.S. Citizens and world citizens to any fuel pricing crisis, or fuel pricing evolutionary efforts, will be more diverse than the impression I got from that essay. One reaction, I think, will be for those who have had it with car fuel pricing, and who might have the flexibility in their individual lives to do so, to move to those cities that have some decent public transportation, dump their cars (and the attendant high insurance rates, and the attendant high other Total Costs of Vehicle Ownership), or use them less, and either walk or take public transportation to a wide variety of their daily needs, perhaps occassionally borrowing or renting or ride-sharing a vehicle (or some other innovative service) if they occassionally need one outside of those areas serviced. Every individual is in a different situation, and many might not be able to give consideration to this solution, but I think, for some, it will be part of what they will consider doing, if the price of gas, and other prices for cars, (and the price of their time sitting in cars) becomes too high. -- In Order to Survive We Must Build Upwards A table from an E-mail This information is from an Email from Murray Duffin. Note the radical decrease in energy consumption as cities grow denser. Hong Kong is the most vertical city and its dwellers consume the least energy. Note the huge difference between Houston, the only American city and all the others. One MJ=one million Joules=947.8 btus. Ha is hectare or about 2.47 acres. Inhab means inhabitants, trans means transportation and GDP means Gross Domestic Product. Kermit Schlansker Urban Travel Energy The following table is from a study entitled Urban Growth vs Sustainable Mobility By the Sustainable Development Working Group of the International association of Public Transport, published in Sustainable Development International, Summer 2003. The figures are for personal transport, and do not include goods and services. I have personally lived in Hong Kong, Paris, and London, and have frequently visited Tokyo, Munich and Houston. I can attest that for the urban dweller, Houston is the least livable of these cities, and Hong Kong is not bad. Hong Kong is by far the most vertical. Overall I would prefer Paris. by Murray Duffin CITY DENSITY AND TRANSPORT CHOICE CITY INHAB/HA % WALK/CYCLETRAVEL COST TRAVEL ENERGY PUBLIC TRANS % OF GDP MJ/INHAB Houston9 5 14.186,000 Sydney19 25 11.030,000 London59 51 7.1 14,500 Paris 48 56 6.7 15,500 Munich56 60 5.8 17,500 Tokyo 88 68 5.0 11,500 Hong Kong320 82 5.0 6,500 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to
Re: [biofuel] smartcar
I've driven a version of this equipped with exotic batteries instead of an engine. One thing is that they're warm batteries. Top speed in that particular version was 75 mph, more-than-peppy acceleration don't quite recall the range. I doubt they'll being making those available any time soon (I doubt that I would... one battle at a time, I think, and they will have a battle to bring the car to the U.S. at all). But it was fun to drive, for sure. On Thu, 6 May 2004 11:46:48 -0500, you wrote: 67 mpg combined city and highway. Side and front airbags. ABS. $16,000 Canadian for the base model. $11,610 US if my currency exchange is correct. Wings, airlerons, elevators and propeller are extra. - Original Message - From: hamiltonjohndavid [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:32 AM Subject: [biofuel] smartcar Check it out. The smart mini car from Europe will be available in Canada this fall. 3cyl TurboDiesel, 80Mpg, 16-20g $Cdn in Coupe or Convertible. I want one! http://www.thesmart.ca http://autos.en.msn.ca/advice/standardart.aspx?contentid=4022311src= homepos=editlead Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: smartcar
On Thu, 06 May 2004 11:00:29 -0700, you wrote: I think it's pretty much a sure thing it will be coming to the US next year isn't it? I will believe it when I see it. Not one or two or 2000, but widely readily available, without hassle at a reasonable price? It will, I predict, meet stiff opposition. Why? Because it would help many American consumers use less fuel and, if they choose, reduce emissions and all fossil fuel use by using B100. This astounding scenario, in my view, will not play out without tremendous opposition, from various quarters. The prime opposition at present is the policy of Non-Benign Neglect of the American government (not just the Bush Administration, but certainly lead very aggressively by them at present) and many others, toward any Renewable or Progressive Energy Technology. In the case of the Smart Car, for example, massive costs will probably be demanded for crash testing ($20,000,000+?), allegedly to protect American consumers but more probably to just put a cramp in the business plans of the Smart Car business. Moreover, there is a problem with U.S. law which puts city size cars like this in a tough class, or tries to. I never get this right, but in Europe and elsewhere, the law does a better job of providing for mid-speed city type cars. Here in the states, the law seems good at defining Low speed vehicles, and highway capable vehicles, but I think the law neglects the middle ground. The max speed seems robust though, (135 km/hr) so I guess it's a highway car and that's that. That means highway car crash testing? http://www.thesmart.ca/index.cfm?ID=3590 Anyway, it may be featured in MOMA in NYC, but at present it's not for sale to NYC People. When will it be? I predict tremendous opposition and silence toward this thing from those interests who always consistently act (if only by not helping or saying anything and allowing in-existence legal impediments to block thing) to keep American consumers from having the chance to drive a promising-looking fuel-saving modifiable-to-hybrid-or-EV vehicle like this. And the SUV version first? Indeed, forcing the changing of such a car to the point where it is less useful and less desireable would be another method that the anti-BTU-conservation crowd would use. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] smartcar
On Thu, 6 May 2004 15:27:50 -0500, you wrote: Ed, I just spoke to a VW sales person a few moments ago while pricing out a rebuilt manual transmission for my '86 Golf. He stated that the Lupo isn't on the horizon for import into the US. Isn't this partly an issue of Ultra-Low-Sulfur Diesel not being commonly available here, yet, the way it is in Europe? If the fuel appropriate to how they designed the engine were common, wouldn't they be more inclined to sell the vehicle here? Well, maybe so. But I have this distinct feeling that the horizon is looming closer and closer with every barrel of oil purchased at $37 plus and maybe more of a fast track after November 11th. Todd Swearingen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] sound file: radio show interview: make your own biodiesel
IMO Jeff Rense needs to interview some of the folks in the open-source home-brew biodiesel movement. Keith, are you up for it? Who me? Do you think I have the right orientation? We're mostly into 3rd World village stuff. Ump. Maybe, if he's prepared to fly to Japan in a flying boat. :-) Don't you need an American in America for that? Why not you Chris? Wiedemann was touting some sort of project he'd been asked to participate in, in South America (Brazil?) as something he was very into. Ok, so maybe Rense wouldn't be that into your bag, I don't know. I'm just saying that if he's a flaky out-there type, he might still be into some of your stuff. Dunno. I don't know much about Jeff Rense, who exactly is Jeff Rense? I've been to his website a few times, some interesting stuff there but seemed to be quite a lot of flaky stuff too, could be wrong. Do you know if Joshua still uses unwashed biodiesel? We don't wash he said, last I heard, maybe a year ago, or a bit more. I don't know what he does now. Maybe we'd have heard if he was into washing now. Or maybe not. Does Joshua even make biodiesel anymore these days? He seems to be into promotion just about full-time doesn't he? regards Keith On Girl-Mark's group, someone made a list of a couple of things that Wiedemann has done to change his methods, in response to the harsh criticism he's received. He hadn't necessarily gone out of his way to thank his critics, but he had modified. Maybe Tickel would be like that also, ... modifying what he's doing in response to people pointing out (gratis) where he's wrong. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] smartcar
On Thu, 6 May 2004 17:11:34 -0500, you wrote: Murdoch, Isn't this partly an issue of Ultra-Low-Sulfur Diesel not being commonly available here, yet, the way it is in Europe? If the fuel appropriate to how they designed the engine were common, wouldn't they be more inclined to sell the vehicle here? I'm not familiar with the fuel requirements of the Lupo. However, ULSD is only a few years away in the US, market wide. Todd Swearingen I think, by one measure, a few years is probably not that much time. A refinery engineer, looking at the costs or difficulties, might have a thing or two to tell us about this. But at the same time, I think this few years has been part of why we haven't seen the advent of such cars as the LUPO or many other affordable promising mileage-oriented excellent New-Diesel-Technology vehicles in the U.S. It could even be used as a pretext to prevent (for awhile) admitting the Smart Car. Apparently, though, the diesel fuel in Canada won't take the engine out of warranty, so I don't know about that. As I mentioned, with respect to the Smart Car, I think we should anticipate that devilish pretexts will be used to delay or prevent admission of something as promising looking as the Smart Car. If I'm wrong, then I will be the happiest about this. I am just erring on the side of assuming that the opposition (for want of a better way to put a face to a name) will not discontinue operations because we've finally found a promising alternative. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] sound file: radio show interview: make your own biodiesel
http://evworld.com/view.cfm?section=articlestoryid=687 You have to click on the Windows Media Player link. I am unable to make the real player link work, though that may be my setup. Once you start listening, there is about 1 minute of worthless music, and then the radio show begins. I'm listening to the interview now. I think the person interviewed has a web page here: http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] USDA Limits Green Payments, Is Accused of Skimping
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=585e=4u=/nm/20040504/sc_nm/environment_farm_dc Tue May 4,11:26 AM ET Add Science - Reuters to My Yahoo! By Charles Abbott WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. government will choose 3,000 to 5,000 farmers in several river drainage areas to receive the first green payments for practicing environmentally friendly farming, Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman said on Tuesday. Not TV -- HDTV Learn what you need to know about HDTV, understand how the technology works and see who has the best HDTV content. But an environmental group has criticized the plan, saying the program should be open immediately to all producers. The Conservation Security Program was created by the 2002 farm subsidy law to encourage care of the 1.5 million square miles of the nation's working fields, ranges and woodlots. Most of the USDA's other conservation programs pay farmers to idle fragile land. Regulations should be unveiled within weeks to launch the new conservation program, said a spokeswoman for the USDA's Natural Resources Conservation Service. A sign-up will be held this summer so farmers and ranchers can volunteer for the program. It will start in a limited number of high-priority watersheds and rotate over an eight-year period across the country. Ferd Hoefner of the Sustainable Agriculture Coalition, an activist group, said USDA was limiting access to a program that Congress wanted open to all producers. The administration is now declaring its intent to deny the country's best conservation farmers the opportunity to participate ... unless they are lucky enough to live in a selected watershed, Hoefner said. Their exclusionary approach is at odds with the law. With $41 million available for this fiscal year, only a small number of contracts can be written, USDA said. There are 1.8 million farms in the United States. Watersheds are nature's boundaries and are a good way to group together producers working on similar environmental issues, Veneman said in a statement. Along with dividing the nation into watersheds, USDA said it would set enrollment categories to identify the worthiest projects. The categories will gauge each farm's current stewardship and willingness to adopt additional conservation practices. Hoefner said the selection process was overly complicated because Congress placed no limits on the new conservation program after this fiscal year. The Bush administration, however, has requested $209 million for fiscal 2005 and Veneman said budget pressures may force a new spending lid. Under USDA's criteria, the top category for cropland would go to land already using a high number of conservation practices, with an operator willing to apply two new techniques and ready to conduct on-farm research or demonstration of conservation practices. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biodiesel business
On Mon, 03 May 2004 15:32:47 -0400, you wrote: Sorry if that last email got sent... Anyway, Hello I'm currently a student (studying business) and I want to make some money with biodiesel. For starteers, I want to convince my school to run their diesel fleet off bio. However, i have absolutly no knowledge about setting up a biodiesel business. Has anybody done this? Either distribution or small-scale manufacturing? Thanks, Tomas Novickas In addition to what you may learn in this group, there is another group recently set up by Girl Mark, a participant here, where small-scale biodiesel business issues are discussed: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/local-b100-biz/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] (fwd) Two Thumbs Down for Climate Change
I didn't know about this movie until I saw this post, so I guess it will be interesting if the movie is well done and has some credibility or not. MM On Wed, 05 May 2004 09:52:39 -0700, Jason Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All: As you may know, on Memorial Day weekend the first Hollywood blockbuster about climate change will open at theaters worldwide. The film is certainly science fiction, but as we know all-too-well, the threats of global warming are in fact very real. This is a great opportunity for us to reach tens thousands of the ÒunconvertedÓ and raise some public awareness about the dangers of our oil addiction. Below you will find a call to action from Global Exchange and Rainforest Action Network urging folks to hand out leaflets at the film screenings. Hopefully some of you will want to join us in educating movie goers. Please send the alert far and wide to other people who you will would be interested in leafleting at the movies. Thanks!! Jason Mark Clean Car Campaigner Global Exchange Two Thumbs Down for Climate Destruction Go to the Movies to Stop Global Warming Hollywood Science Fiction a Great Chance to Spread the Facts About Global Warming When: Friday, May 28 Ð Monday, May 31 (or longer) Where: At Your Local Movie Theater What: Distribute Leaflets About the Realities of Climate Chaos and Spur People to Action Why: On Friday, May 28 the blockbuster climate disaster movie ÒThe Day After TomorrowÓ will open in theaters around the world. This is the first major studio film to address the issue of human-driven climate change, and therefore offers an unprecedented opportunity to reach people who are unaware of the threats posed by global warming. By adopting a theater and passing out eye-catching postcards to movie goers, you can help educate thousands of Americans about the realities of global warming and give them ways to contribute to positive change. From coast to coast we need your help to distribute flyers, get petition signatures, and give moviegoers an opportunity to take action. In addition, we can help you organize after-movie parties and discussion groups the opening week of the film. Although it may take a Hollywood-style weather disaster to spur public concern over climate change, we can use this as a chance to build the movement for a sustainable economy. Already government officials are trying to shut down dialogue. On April 1, NASA employees were sent e-mail message by the agencyÕs top press officer that said, No one from NASA is to do interviews or otherwise comment on anything having to do with [the film]. We will not be silent. With your help we will spread the word across the country that the impacts of climate change are already wreaking havoc on ecosystems and human communities across the planet, endangering our security, our economy and our health. This does not have to be a ton of workÑbut it can be a ton of fun. ItÕs as easy as getting three or four friends together to go see the film, and then before and after the screening passing out postcards to your fellow movie goers as they enter or leave the auditorium. Please join us today. You can start by filling out the action form below and then returning it to: ¥ Jason Mark, Global Exchange, [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 415-558-9490 OR ¥ Tara Wolfson, Rainforest Action Newtork, [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 415.398.4404 For more information, please visit: http://www.jumpstartford.com Thank you for your efforts to create a truly sustainable economy! YES! I want to help spread the truth about global warming at ÒThe Day After TomorrowÓ screenings. Name: Phone: Address: Movie Theaters Near You: Name of theater: Address of theater: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Study: Shoppers Deserting Supermarkets
With Apologies to Mr. Dreyfuss for quoting the whole thing, but AP does a poor job through yahoo of archiving articles, and I don't want this to be deleted after a few weeks, which is their wont. Some interesting introductory thinking to how American consumers are presently seeing the motor fuel-vs.-food-purchase equations. MM http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=509ncid=718e=5u=/ap/20040502/ap_on_bi_ge/cheaper_shoppers Study: Shoppers Deserting Supermarkets Sun May 2, 7:06 PM ET Add Business - AP to My Yahoo! By IRA DREYFUSS, Associated Press Writer CHICAGO - For financially pressed consumers, it's coming down to a choice between spending on gasoline or groceries, and gasoline is winning, a food industry analysis finds. Given the economic environment, it is not surprising that more shoppers are buying food today in discount stores and other low-price venues than ever before, said the report by the Food Marketing Institute, released at the organization's annual trade show in Chicago. High oil prices, both at the pump and for home heating, depress consumers' ability to spend more, the study said. Gasoline prices have been soaring: about 35 cents a gallon since December, driven by surging crude oil prices, according to gasoline industry analyst Trilby Lundberg. The food industry report said the fuel price increases are tightening the pressure on personal budgets that already were squeezed hard by credit card bills. In 2003, for the second consecutive year, we detected among consumers that minus inflation, minus inflation, they are managing to buy their groceries for less than they did last year, Michael Sansolo, FMI's senior vice president, told the group's opening conference Sunday. Consumers feel the financial pain and are acting to ease it by finding cheaper places to spend on food, said the FMI report, citing a survey commissioned by the trade group. The survey of more than 500 people telephoned randomly in January had a margin of error of 4.5 percentage points. As a result, supermarkets are losing their hold on their customers, who can go to other retailers such as discount stores, the survey said. The proportion of respondents who said a supermarket was their primary food store fell by 5 percentage points since a year earlier, to 72 percent. The share of shoppers who considered a discount store their first choice rose by 4 percentage points, to 21 percent. The report also said shoppers are finding other ways to be more careful in their spending. More shoppers said they were comparison shopping, looking in newspapers for sales,using coupons and rebates, stocking up on bargains even if they don't need the items right away, and buying only what was on their grocery lists. More shoppers also were keeping grocery lists, the survey found. For all that work, however, the average grocery bills that the survey respondents reported showed little change. The average weekly bill fell $1, to $90, from January of 2003. Working against the desire to save money was the desire to save time, something else that modern America has all too little of. The survey showed an increase in purchases of precooked foods, which cost more than the ingredients for from-scratch meals. The trend toward timesaving convenience foods from precooked pasta to cereal bars continues, the report said. ___ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Using Prius as an electric car *#
If you are able to follow through on this, or even if you are not able to do so, and find that it just takes the fire out of you, I for one will be extremely interested to read of your efforts, or of any further info you can pass on to us, about the NYC area. I am acquainted with the guy who runs NYCE wheels, the 2-wheeler EV seller on the upper east side. But that's just an EV issue, not a biofuel issue. A couple of years ago I was in NYC and asked about the grocery store situation. I realized that I never seemed to see large chain stores as I am accustomed to elsehwere. I was told that, basically, the local stores had a strong push and were able to keep the area different from the chain-store-ization of elsewhere. I am not saying good or bad, I was just sort of wondering, and that's what I was told... as I kept in mind the amounts of food going into the city every day, and the amounts of waste exiting. There was a news story or two, a few years ago, about the issue of some restauraunt waste grease, that might otherwise have been turned into fuel, being put illegally into the sewer systems, and causing damage. Apparently this was happening in a certain Chinese restaurant area more than in others? I have not heard any further discussion of this. Manhattan is such a different area from others that I have been to, that I cannot begin to really understand it. I never seem to see gas stations, yet there must be some, because there are certainly enough cars and taxis. I think this is merely my perception, that I don't see any. But at the same time, I'm guessing that it's highly regulated and that this is part of the reason for the lack of inroads by folks trying to do something different. After 9-11, I expected NYC people, of anyone, to make a connection between the issue of changing the sourcing of their fuel and fighting the war, or at least fighting whatever fight any individual citizen wanted, as far as his own personal views went. We've heard virtually nothing, though, from NYC, outside of one or two private comments I've heard about some EVs for some city program(s). Haven't really heard much to back up those comments even. It's just astonishing to me that not a single person from the NYC fourth estate has said anything (within hearing range of many of the rest of us) to make an issue of fuel sourcing available to NYC citizens. On Sun, 2 May 2004 21:29:42 -0400, you wrote: Thanks Here is my current dilemma: I am seeking to buy biodiesel, either B20 or B100 that I can mix myself. I am not in the best situation right now that would allow me the chance to brew my own. So I am looking for a distributor to supply me. Now, I live in the NY city area, THE largest Metropolitan area in the world, yet there are ZERO distributors here, the closest is New Haven, Connecticutt, and Bridgeton, NJ, 2 hours drive eiher way. I want so much to become part of the biodiesel solution that I want to try to become a distributor here in NY, and maybe get in on the ground floor. I do have some capital to invest. but just need more info on how to do it. I am banking on the hope that biodiesel will be the wave of the future, as a government mandated supplement to petro diesel. Good Luck to us all! - Original Message - From: To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:41 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Using Prius as an electric car *# Dear B.D., The parking lot is a great idea. I hope we a a few landlords/entrepreneurs on the list put it to use. Perhaps the charge could be done for free during certain hours to be competitive with parking lots not supplying the service. Maybe commuter parking lots could charge for free to induce multi-modal commuters to participate in such programs or to buy the cars in the first instance. Keep up the good thinking. Regards, Wendell Busyditch wrote: Ideally, one should be able to charge their battery using a biofuel powered genset. Not a reality for most, but imagine someone setting up an urban regeneration station/parking lot to charge your vehicle overnight using such a generator. The ideas are boundless, just enough inspiration to make them work. busyditch - Original Message - From: Michael To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 12:56 AM Subject: [biofuel] Using Prius as an electric car I hope everyone realizes that the energy comes from a dirty power plant, and then loses energy traveling down the power lines, to their plug, and then loses energy in the rectifier, and in charging the batteries, and in discharging the batteries.Very Respectfully, Michael http://www.RecoveryByDiscovery.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list
[biofuel] New Mexico Officials to Test Use of Waste Wood to Run Power Plants
http://news.tradingcharts.com/futures/6/6/54988966.html ZUNI, N.M., Apr 19, 2004 (Albuquerque Journal - Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News via COMTEX) -- Soaring natural gas and propane prices have stoked a fire under state and private developers who see wood and wood byproducts as an energy source for the future, especially for rural areas. Federal and state officials have teamed up with private companies to test a little power plant, about the size of a car, that uses forest thinnings and wood scraps to generate electricity and heat. The idea is to develop a commercial way to provide energy in rural areas where propane and electricity costs are high but wood is plentiful, said Robb Walt, president of Community Power Corp. The Littleton, Colo., company has partnered with the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Forest Products Laboratory, and the U.S. Department of Energy's National Renewable Energy Laboratory to test its BioMax 15 wood-burning generator at two locations in New Mexico. Zuni Furniture Enterprises, a 10-employee furniture factory on the Zuni reservation south of Gallup, has been testing a BioMax unit since October. The other unit is at SBS Woodshavings, in Glencoe, which uses wood cleared from forests to produce animal bedding. [etc.] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] ethanol car fuel from wood waste, larger-scale project in Japan
http://www.co2e.com/News/story.asp?StoryID=1628 01/04/2004: Taisei, Marubeni to Turn Construction Waste Into Car Biofuel: Asia Pulse Pte Ltd TOKYO, April 1 Asia Pulse - Five companies, including general contractor Taisei Corp. (TSE:1801) and trading house Marubeni Corp. (TSE:8002), will join in a new business to extract car fuel from wood materials discarded in construction. The firms will jointly establish a company in April with a capitalization of 100 million yen (US$960,836), with a plan to begin mass production of ethanol for automobiles in fiscal 2007. The use of biomass fuel is considered an effective way to reduce greenhouse gases. The company will aim to establish itself in the new environmental business with an eye toward the creation of an infrastructure for such biofuel by the government and the auto industry. The other participating firms are Sapporo Breweries Ltd., construction waste disposal firm Daiei Inter Nature System Inc. and construction materials manufacturer Tokyo Board Industries Co. The companies will spend more than 3 billion yen to build an ethanol-production plant in Osaka Prefecture. Starting in fiscal 2007, the plant will process 30,000 tons of discarded wood materials each year to produce 3,700kl of ethanol that will be supplied to 100 gas stations throughout the year. The ethanol will be shipped at a price of about 50 yen per liter, and the company targets sales of 500 million yen in the first year. To produce ethanol that is more than 99 per cent pure, wood materials will be decomposed using acid and will then be fermented. The technology will be based on extraction techniques that Marubeni introduced from the U.S., and Sapporo Breweries will provide its expertise in fermentation. Meanwhile, Taisei and Daiei will supply the discarded wood materials. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (fwd) (fwd) First day driving the ACPropulsion car
I've spoken with Doug a few times and if I understood his WWII point correctly, I am complete agreement with the basics of it: the U.S. is not behaving as though it is at war, sacrifices are not being asked of its citizens to the extent that would happen in a very serious life and death struggle, and, particularly, virtually nothing seems to be asked by way of identifying fuel sourcing as any sort of issue connected in any way, at all, with the war or the health of the economy. I don't think Doug was trying to refer to anything having to do with gengas or coal. Could be wrong. I think he was referring to building EVs and powering them with PV, (as he has done with his own EVs for some time now) instead of needlessly crushing them for half-baked half-hearted reasons, as is now being done by Toyota, Ford, GM. Such crushing would have been so decried in WWII, as the anti-U.S.-fuel-Independence act that it is, that it would never have been allowed. Interestingly, about Doug, he does not deny that there is a fair amoutn of Oil in the world. It is his view that there is plenty for awhile, but not at these prices that we could, for example, get a lot of oil from shale here in the U.S., but prices per barrel would be many times what they are now. Another note is that his son is in the PV business in LA, and is presently suing Ford, because Ford won't let him keep the Ranger EV he managed to lease from them. Again, this sort of BS would never happen during WWII. Never. If we Americans are really at war, even if it is by some different definition of a war (and I'm not asking to debate whether those here think the war is just or correct only asking if it is really claimed to be on), then I'm not quite sure why we aren't bringing to bear all the actions that one takes in a war, such as fuel conservation, contributions and teamwork by everyone in the Country to to take part in some way, efforts to engage in International Diplomacy to do a better job of involving those who might be potential allies, etc. My working theory is that there is, in fact, an edict against any manufacturer allowing any real number of non-Petroleum-company-powered vehicles on the road, in the U.S. and perhaps elsehwere. . That we are, to some extent, the United States of Oil. This theory is far from perfect, and more conspiratorial than I usually allow myself, but it sort of helps explain the various petty programs to rip the existing EVs from the fingers of those who want to keep them, the refusal to allow an EV-only mode on the Toyota Prius (as is apparently allowed in Japan), the lack of a more numerous market for diesels here, etc. I don't think all of this lack-of-consumer-choice-in-fuels, or in vehicles which use those alt-fuels which are available, is just an accident. I'm sure we'd hear many convincing explanations for these events in isolation (such as safety and legal reasons for Toyota's hybrid configuration and legal reasons for destroying cars) but I don't think these anti-demand actions, when piled together, are plausible to me as must happens for multi-billion-dollar companies which fight legal battles as or when they feel like it. Also, of course, we have the very quiet who-the-heck-can-figure-out-what's-going-on fact of an Oil company having a very strong financial and legal stake in the battery technology which is enabling the hybrids. I thought Doug's discussion of one of those vehicles, presently not allowed by the powers-that-be to make its way into consumer hands (or even to get much PR) was very worth my while. It was built, by the way, by the company that built that VW with a fossil-fuel-burning genset as a plug-in-hybrid. On Sun, 02 May 2004 12:17:11 +0200, you wrote: MM, The crash program in WWII, was gengas (producer gas) units and conversions. It is likely that a new crash program would be the same, with gasification from coal. A lot of the electricity production comes from oil and coal and a rapid rise in electricity production is not possible in a crash situation. When you loose the oil, will create a shortage in electricity also. With own oil for 10 years and NG for 7 years, coal for electricity production and gengas as transport fuel, seems to be the only possible route in a crash situation. Apart from reduction of energy use by rationing program, which will result in a lot of forced energy saving measures. Thing that will happen is a ban of using air conditioning, reduced indoor temperatures in winter etc. Rationing on production and use of certain materials in products, like aluminium etc. Hakan At 21:37 01/05/2004, you wrote: On Sat, 01 May 2004 12:24:45 -0700, Doug Korthof [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Is it a time of oil emergency supposedly severe enough to justify environmental waivers and foreign wars? The need for oil is supposedly to keep our economy running, a national security issue. But is it really so? If it were a real emergency, as in WW-II,
[biofuel] (fwd) First day driving the ACPropulsion car
Thanks for the clarification. Indeed, what you point out is interesting. For example, now that the U.S. is, in a way, more like the Europeans were during WWII, where we have more of an OIl deficit (I think we're still close to being the #1 producer, but our production does not equal even 50% of our consumption), maybe indeed we can try to use history to predict what might happen. Maybe we will see a similar situation here in the states, with folks reaching for production of some gaseous and liquid fuels, similar to what they tried to do during the crunch of WWII in Europe. I do think we see the slow creep of EV introduction into U.S. Society... and renewable powering of such with such quiet matters as continued GEM production. Sure, it's (relatively) boring and slow and inadequate for all but a trip to get groceries on a slow road. But, for right or for wrong, these slow 2 wheel and 4 wheel EVs aren't quite going away. A GEM executive told me things are going pretty well financially, and this was backing up what D-C said at a press conference. Here in the states we have this odd problem, as I've been told by others, that our middle classification of speed doesn't exist adequately. So, in Europe, you see a few more (not enough, but more) of these city type cars, which are not quite adequate to go at safe highway speeds, but are sufficient and very useful for traveling at city speeds. And those vehicles may tend to be EVs as well as gasoline powered. But here in the U.S. one of the reasons you don't see them is that, I'm told, we have an inadequate legal way of addressing these vehicles, and so either you're legally qualified for the highway vehicles, or you're low speed, but with no middle ground. Doubtless there's something I've misunderstood or mis-represented... but I'm just trying to pass on what I've been told as best I can in an area that I'm not good with (Legal stuff). On Sun, 02 May 2004 20:22:33 +0200, you wrote: MM, I am all for escalating the production of electric cars and think that it should be an important element of the energy strategy. It is very interesting things happening, especially the engine in the wheel. It enhances the possibilities of flexible fuel alternatives. The only thing is, that I do not think that it will help with an energy crises to make this happen. Therefore I wanted to make clear, what happened during WWII and that in an oil crises, the electric vehicle would not be a priority action. You also have to remember that US never had any oil crisis during WWII and any oil restrictions. At that time, US was by far the leading oil producer. It was Europe and Japan, that had the problems and in Europe it was more than one million gengas vehicles on the road. A large percentage of the existing vehicles. What I was trying to say, is that in a crises, the immediate alternatives are biofuels and gengas or synthetic fuel from coal. US, with less than 1% of electricity from wind and solar, problems with production from NG, have small chances to find relief in using electric cars. Oil reserves also include the known shale reserves, it is not like we have any large known reserves unaccounted for. It is a common misunderstanding, that known oil reserves are equal to easy recoverable oil. This is not the case and exuberate the problem, by leading people to belive that it is some magical solution available. Electric cars and PV, is something that I support and let us hope that this will develop out of a more long term strategy. I am afraid that a sudden crises would be bad for such development and tilt all resources toward coal development. Hakan At 19:40 02/05/2004, you wrote: I've spoken with Doug a few times and if I understood his WWII point correctly, I am complete agreement with the basics of it: the U.S. is not behaving as though it is at war, sacrifices are not being asked of its citizens to the extent that would happen in a very serious life and death struggle, and, particularly, virtually nothing seems to be asked by way of identifying fuel sourcing as any sort of issue connected in any way, at all, with the war or the health of the economy. I don't think Doug was trying to refer to anything having to do with gengas or coal. Could be wrong. I think he was referring to building EVs and powering them with PV, (as he has done with his own EVs for some time now) instead of needlessly crushing them for half-baked half-hearted reasons, as is now being done by Toyota, Ford, GM. Such crushing would have been so decried in WWII, as the anti-U.S.-fuel-Independence act that it is, that it would never have been allowed. Interestingly, about Doug, he does not deny that there is a fair amoutn of Oil in the world. It is his view that there is plenty for awhile, but not at these prices that we could, for example, get a lot of oil from shale here in the U.S., but prices per barrel would be many times what they are now. Another note is that his son
[biofuel] Truckers Protest High Diesel Prices, Some Arrested
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=519ncid=718e=8u=/ap/20040501/ap_on_re_us/trucker_protest Truckers Block L.A. Freeway in Protest 5 minutes ago Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo! By ROBERT JABLON, Associated Press Writer LOS ANGELES - Truckers parked their rigs on a busy freeway outside Los Angeles on Friday morning, snarling rush-hour traffic for miles in a wildcat protest over high diesel prices. About 700 protested at separate rallies. Three tractor-trailers stopped in the northbound lanes of the Golden State Freeway in Commerce, 17 miles southeast of downtown, according to the California Highway Patrol. They just sort of slowed traffic down, parked their trucks, and got out, CHP Officer Ricardo Quintero said. They just took off in a car. Authorities drove or towed the trucks out of traffic and lanes were clear less than an hour later. Five people were arrested. Two were later released and three were booked on one count each of failure to obey a lawful order. In a separate protest, several big rigs slowed on the Harbor Freeway south of Los Angeles, causing minor delays, authorities said. The California Trucking Association said the price of diesel fuel has risen 36 cents in the past two weeks to as high as $2.50 a gallon in California ÷ 56 cents a gallon higher than the national average. However, the association said it opposed the wildcat job action, preferring instead to work for a legislative solution. This is counterproductive to what we're trying to do, Stephanie Williams, senior vice president of the CTA said. We need a government action. The oil companies are gouging us. Later Friday, about 600 independent truckers rallied in Wilmington to protest prices, government fees and other costs they say are eroding income. Another 100 truckers gathered in northern California for a similar protest, Port of Oakland spokeswoman Marilyn Sandifur said. We're here to fight. With a price like this, we can't survive, said Ramiro Alonso, 38, a driver for 14 years, said at the Wilmington demonstration. Robert Nunley, 40, was filling his tank at a gas station when he heard about the protest on the radio. He planned a route to San Diego that would let him bypass the problems. I'm not looking forward to it, but I've got no choice, he said. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] (fwd) (fwd) First day driving the ACPropulsion car
On Sat, 01 May 2004 12:24:45 -0700, Doug Korthof [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Is it a time of oil emergency supposedly severe enough to justify environmental waivers and foreign wars? The need for oil is supposedly to keep our economy running, a national security issue. But is it really so? If it were a real emergency, as in WW-II, there would be a crash program of building Electric Cars. Mass production techniques would drive the cost of a 120 mile range EV down below $8000. But if it's really a way to avoid losing lives of our troops, and dis-entangling ourselves from the messy politics of the middle east, surely it would be cost-effective to give them away for free. Powering such an EV can be done with off-peak electric; for those in sunny climes, a crash program of solar rooftop electric will enable people to live COST FREE as well as (essentially) OIL-FREE. 80% of our gasoline is expended on round trips from our homes of 80 miles or less. If just half of those runabout cars were replaced with national emergency Electric Cars, we would NOT NEED TO IMPORT OVERSEAS OIL. That's right, domestic and other North American supplies would suffice. How many Electric Cars would this take? Let's say 30 million. At a cost of $240B, that would be less than this year's bill for blowing up Iraq, not to mention all the other troops and expenses that protect foreign oil and cater to the whims of oil dictators. Basically, an EV1 electric car using simple lead-acid recyclable batteries goes 110 miles on the energy equivalent of a half-gallon of gasoline. The average gas car travels about 10 miles on the same quantity of gasoline. Hence, we would cut our energy bill by 90% by going to EVs. It would be no smog, and no foreign wars. All we have to do is show the will, the national commitment. It is possible, even necessary, but without leadership, it won't happen. - First day driving the ACPropulsion car The AC-150 is the name of the motor-controller-charger unit which is the heart of the EV. Just add batteries and ergonomic controls, and you have an EV that rocks! I am fortunate enough to be driving a vehicle made by http://ACPropulsion.com. This AC-150 (until it gets a name) is the successor vehicle to the EV1 and uses even more advanced technology. But it is not as polished as you would expect from a production vehicle, it's more like a drag racer. There are 8 bars of power, and a hefty reserve under that. I am trying to coddle the new batteries, which are about half as good as the Panasonic lead-acid batteries on the old 1997 EV1. This car is almost like being thrown back in time to the 1997 EV1 with the allegedly defective Delco batteries, which had only 60-70 miles range. An EV is no better than its batteries, and GM seems to have sabotaged the original EV1. Restraint lasts only up to the freeway entrance, as a big pickup truck starts eating my extension cord. Of course, it disappears in the electron cloud as I crank up the power just a tiny bit, swooping onto the freeway. Not easy to restrain the power, when there is so much. But these first few outing are just for cycling the batteries. One of the neatest features is a slide control for the regenerative braking. Push it up, you are all coast; pull it down, you are 100% regen. This brings the car to a stop very fast, so you don't need much brake; on the other hand, don't pull your foot off the pedal too fast! Other neat features including variable charging and cruise control. On the 57 fwy north, wave and beep at a Prius hybrid in lane 3. For some reason, he is only going 55. We want to encourage people to associate Prius with electric car. Some day, the oil companies will allow hybrids that can be plugged in. Meanwhile, this is the same tactic, in reverse, that was used by the Oilies: they put out hybrids, and when people saw our EV1, they thought it was a hybrid! Because that's all that was permitted to be advertised! The greatest thing about this AC-150 is the similarity to the vanished EV1, although it is a tad heavier. Is that why GM is carefully destroying all the light-weight EV1 bodies in a mass grave somewhere? When GM destroyed ALL the EV1 they confiscated so far, they only pulled the batteries and tires. ALL the motors, controllers, and the light-weight, marvelously aerodynamic bodies were nibbled and destroyed. If they were interested in asset recovery, they would sell the parts for a profit, or let people buy the car for a souvenir: instead, they go to great lengths to make sure that all its parts are destroyed. At SCAQMD, one lone, scared EV1 was hunched over its charging cord, as if knowing that its days were numbered. A security guard came up and said, ...no one wants those, they don't make them any more I guess this copy would fetch $50,000 cash on the barrel head, if GM were not going to vindictively destroy it. I offered the guy $30k for the car, but he
[biofuel] Energy Use Per Capita, Worldwide and in the U.S.
It has been on my mind to follow up a bit on Paul Scott's open-question/personal project to inquire into per capita energy use, in the U.S. and worldwide. The post that we have from the Homestead list, about one person's predictions for what Americans and other oil-addicted will do when we run out of sufficient gasoline (according to the way we've set up our fleets), provides me with some impetus to follow up a bit. I do find that post very thought-provoking, but I do not take it as an accurate prediction of events so much as one point of view on one or two sets of options that people will have in one area of their daily personal and business energy use: transportation. While the poster ignored the possibility of electricity as a future fuel, the bigger question I would have to be to get a handle on our overall energy use regardless of derivation or form. This is just an initial 30 minute-start to this project. Of the things I want to keep in mind are the many permutations and debatable points in data like this, and hence the room for debate once we gather initial data.
Re: [biofuel] Energy Use Per Capita, Worldwide and in the U.S.
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:38:00 +0200, you wrote: MM, These are very interesting figures, but to really see the range, it is also very interesting the look at the spread and it is some developing where the US citizens are using 40 to 50 times more per capita. I'm not sure if I understand your point, but I think you're trying to say something about some people (data points) who are way way way above or below average. I think this would be a good point... to keep in mind that even though we create figures for an average mythical per-capita-data-point, this does not give us the full picture of all the many different types of contributions to that data point.. One needs to have a better idea of the exact nature of the curve. This is also sort of why I emphasized that if we compare U.S. figures to World figures, we should keep in mind that the U.S. figures are such a strong contributor to world figures that it might be useful to look at World Figures exclusive-of U.S. figures. Then we would see even different numbers, maybe closer to the ones you suggest. Sorry to hear about your loss in your personal life, but I saw this website the other day that made me think of you and your projects and your emphasis on the here-and-now of your family's lifetime and finding things that are ready-for-use. I held off on mentioning it for a few days to leave you alone, but here it is: http://www.reactual.com/ I haven't actually spent any amount of time there yet, but it looks like sort of an interesting site. Energy use, average standard and economic development are strongly related. Do not have the time to again find the background material now, but will find it in the future. Hakan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Energy Policy: Supreme Court Hears Cheney Secrecy Case
On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 06:21:38 +0900, you wrote: Hi MM Very much agree with you, but it would be nice to see the guy getting a legal roasting for it, along with his pals - he's probably not going to get an electoral one, sad to say. Not very likely either, I know. Some of the ins and outs are discussed here: http://tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/10308 Wasting Energy Attorney Andrew Cohen analyzes legal issues for CBS News and CBSNews.com. Bes Keith Thanks, I read this story, and I understand better now the case that the plaintiffs think they have. I mean, I'm not sure if I agree, but I can see how, if there was a law enacted requiring disclosure of meetings with parties if they were private or something, then it's a law and The Energy Group should have seen to it that they adhered. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology or Conservation Investments
A good one, in my view. I seem to recall having run across them some months or years ago, but in any event only got to re-examining them a day or two ago. Part of the problem has been that it has been very slow going, over the years, in getting access to information to (and the ability to purchase) non-U.S. and non-Canadian securities. Whether for purposes of buying in one's account or researching news or discussing a stock index, there just seems to be this slowly fading line that has been hard to cross. The best I was able to do the last few days was stock symbol ANA.MC on yahoo. If someone has trouble going through yahoo, I think bloomberg.com is also a decent resource for this sort of mainstream European or Asian stock research. ANA.MC (the 'MC' standing for Madrid or something) on yahoo is Acciona, a Spanish company, which apparently owns half of EHN. Unfortunately , I think this is a very diluted way to invest in EHN, because Acciona has other activities. Here is discussion of who owns EHN: http://www.acciona.es/ingles/energia.htm Another angle here is that EHN has some inter-workings with other companies, but I have not got far enough in researching it to figure out one that would be a good pure play and fit our parameters. But I did bookmark ANA.MC, in a similar way to having bookmarked DTE, where I count them as being a large utility-ish sort of company, having a fractional interest in renewable technologies sufficient to warrant my interest. On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:45:35 +, you wrote: Hi, How about EHN - Energia Hidroelectrica de Navarra http://www.ehn.es/eng/index0.html A leading group in renewables -- Wind Power, Small Hydro, Biomass, Solar, and Bioclimatic Architecture I have no idea how one would invest in the company, perhaps through the Spanish stock market. Derek On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:00:13 -0700, you wrote: Does anyone here have any ideas for investments in stocks (anywhere in the world... does *not* have to be North America) that have a good sustainable technology or energy technology or conservation angle? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] NYT Article - US Farm Subsidies Impact Developing World
good one On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:45:35 +, you wrote: Those Illegal Farm Subsidies Published: April 28, 2004 http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/28/opinion/28WED1.html?th America's lavish handouts to its farmers harvest poverty throughout the developing world. And they are illegal as well. That's the conclusion of a World Trade Organization panel that heard Brazil's challenge to the cotton subsidies that belie this nation's commitment to free and fair trade. Cotton is far from the only crop that American farmers are able to dump on the international market at low prices thanks to federal subsidies. But it is one of the most outrageous cases. Brazil was wise in choosing it as the first target in the developing world's challenge of the roughly $1 billion a day in subsidies that rich nations dole out to their farmers. If the preliminary ruling stands, as expected, it may mean the beginning of the end for European and American practices that provide their farmers an unfair advantage. In addition to Brazil, an agricultural superpower, some of the world's poorest nations, including the West African republics of Mali, Benin and Burkina Faso, are vindicated by the W.T.O.'s decision. Cotton is West Africa's cash crop, the one economic activity in which the region has a competitive advantage. By underwriting much of the costs of America's 25,000 cotton farmers with checks that can total $3 billion a year, Washington erases that advantage. Aided by American experts who are critics of this warped system, Brazil convincingly argued that in the absence of subsidies, the United States would have produced and exported substantially less cotton than it did in recent years. Consequently, growers elsewhere would have enjoyed greater market share and higher prices. The glaring contradiction between American farm subsidies and the principles underlying the global trade system has long posed a moral and political problem for Washington. Now it is also a legal problem. Instead of digging in its heels and spending years appealing the panel's ruling, the Bush administration needs to seize upon it as a reason to negotiate the surrender of rich nations' trade-distorting farm subsidies. The administration has a mixed record on this issue. It offered proposals to start weaning corporate farmers off their subsidies two years ago ÷ admittedly after approving a farm bill that exacerbated the problem. Then it backed away in the face of strong opposition from Congress and the European Union. That retreat not only hurt the poor nations' farmers, but also American taxpayers, consumers and most business interests, including more competitive farmers. The W.T.O.'s talks on the further liberalization of trade faltered over the subsidy issue at Cancn last year, but this week's ruling will vastly strengthen the position of Brazil and others advocating the dismantling of agricultural subsidies that distort trade. The sooner they prevail, the better. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Cellulose-Alcohol story.
Is that the one that former CIA director Woolsey had something to do with? I'm not asking to be cynical, but to clarify. It seemed to me that after leaving Gov't direct service, and in being a very vocal supporter of biofuels, I had heard that he had taken an interest in one of the biofuel companies, but I lost track of which one. On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:46:56 -, you wrote: What about BC International Corporation located in Massachusetts, U.S.? From what I have read from their website, they have already been converting cellulosic biomass to ethanol for some time now. They claim to have numerous patents on their technology, so it sounds like this is big business. How would one check out the credibility of a company such as this? --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: riored96 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Iogen for real,or bs. http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/04/22/sci-tech/biofuel040422 I guess it depends what you mean by for real. The company is real. They have at least 2 buildings here in the Ottawa area. They have had displays at several environmental events that I have attended over the past decade. I have had some contact with them over the years, and until very recently, they were not producing ethanol beyond the lab scale. They have been receiving grants and monies from a couple of petroleum companies (Shell and Petro-Canada) over the years to continue research on producing ethanol from cellulose stock. They have certainly had support from our federal minister of the Environment for years. As for the efficiency of the process, or how well it has scaled up, I have no idea. The truck that appeared in the TV item I saw belonged to a local petroleum retailer (MacEwen's), that have been one of the strongest local proponents of ethanol blended gasoline for several years now. The one print article I have seen was a bit of a mess (Ottawa Citzen newspaper), rather in keeping with my expectations of the Canadian mass media. Darryl McMahon Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Cellulose-Alcohol story.
Great point. In fact, just at my own house, I'm thinking of replacing my Propane fireplace (for which I've installed no tank) with a woodburning one which would help me dispose of unwanted biomass growth from my own property. On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:32:38 -, you wrote: I agree with the idea of returning ag waste to the cropland, but there are other sources. A large percentage of cellulosic biomass comes from cities, parks within cities, housing complexes, suburbs. Everytime I take a drive into the more populated areas in the spring, summer, and fall, I see town, village and city crews picking up trees, shrubs and anything else they can fit through their shredder to take to their woodchip piles. This may not be enough to supply a large ethanol facility, but if coordinated correctly, it could maybe sustain a small facility continuously if close to the source of biomass. Jonathan. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello RR If this story is true, it would be of monumental importance. Billions of tons of this stuff (cellulose) must be produced yearly around the world, in association with food production. What is the holdup, with exploiting this technology? If India/China needs fuel for cars, here it is. The lack of press coverage, is disappointing and suspicious. In the US?? Well yes, excellent general statement, but you shouldn't be surprised. Anyway, two things about cellulose. Much of what would be available would be crop wastes, and that there might be billions of tons of it doesn't necessarily mean it's up for grabs. Crop wastes need to be returned to the soil if there's of be much of a future for crop production. Richer countries can postpone it a bit with chemical fertilisers, and end up with worse problems in the longer run, but poorer countries often can't even afford to do that. So endless supplies of ethanol fuel might have to bear the ever-soaring costs of denuded farmlands, and those costs tend to spill out well beyond the farm fence. Not worth it. It would need planned cellulose production, perhaps as a crop by-product, but not at the expense of soil fertility. Second, there's quite a lot of information here: Ethanol from cellulose http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#cellulose Best Keith RR --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have also been trying to keep half an eye on them (Iogen itself is not publicly traded, which makes this a bit of a challenge, even if some of its investors apparently are), and on Genencor (stock symbol GCOR here in the US), and although riored's question was blunt, it does sort of summarize my own standing question about a lot of companies, particularly in this field. This field I have labled as important because of the DOE's comments some years ago as to the economic importance of turning cellulosic matter into ethanol. According to them, such an advance was more or less necessary - the key - to making ethanol more sustainable and economically viable in the U.S. This was in response to many of the questions as to the pricing and volumes available for Ethanol. I do *not* think such an argument by them should be taken at face value without questioning or discussion, but I did take it under advisement that some of the basis for the argument seemed to make some sense ... i.e., taking matter which, without the ethanol advancement, would have limited value, labled by some as waste, and adding a value to it. For some reason, I don't know why, I have Iogen ranked in my mind as less full of it than GCOR. From your update, I can see that Iogen has been in we're working on it in the lab mode similar to GCOR, and has received government research funding monies for awhile, also similar to GCOR. Last I checked with them, two or three years ago, mutual fund NALFX, one of the only really super-strict-interpretationist clean-technology-mutual-funds, (very small, modest long-term returns at best, but long-established since '82) had a stake in GCOR, or at least I think they did, ... they were following it... because of GCOR's ethanol angle. If nothing else, this helps illustrate the difficulty for clean-technology-fund-managers in finding biofuel investments outside of such as ADM. On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:30:33 -0400, you wrote: riored96 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Iogen for real,or bs. http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/04/22/sci-tech/biofuel040422 I guess it depends what you mean by for real. The company is real. They have at least 2 buildings here in the Ottawa area. They have had displays at several environmental events that I have attended over the past decade. I have had some contact with them over the years, and until very
Re: [biofuel] Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology or Conservation Investments
Have been catching bits and pieces of solar news here in Arizona. The 2nd largest PV installation in the world is in Springerville (3 or 4 MW I think the largest is in Italy) and I did see an interesting news release about a planned thermal solar project somewhere around here. Not the size given in the Australian project, but I'll believe that one when I see it built. Anyway, checking around (Bloomberg.com, etc.) it looks like that Australia solar thermal project is being run by EVM.AX (yahoo system stock symbols) a publicly traded australian company. Market cap is too small for this project, but interesting anyway. Also ran across eil.ax, http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=EIL:AU which definitely fits my goals for a biofuel-related publicly traded investment, although it also is too small for this particularly project. Their profile: Environmental Infrastructure Limited develops renewable energy in Australia. The Company converts food waste into green energy and organic fertilizer which reduces greenhouse gas emissions and landfill demand. Organic waste from food manufacturing, food retailing and hospitality sectors is recycled to form biogas which is used for heat and electricity. On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:58:49 +, you wrote: Hi, I guess a good excuse to take a trip to Australia!! One would think that if it were working well in Manzanares, they would have left it functioning. Regards, Derek Derek, I do not think that Spain can show anything today, Scientists have already built a successful prototype in Manzanares, Spain. The plant operated from 1982 and 1989 and had a consistent output of 50 kilowatts of green energy. Do not operate after 1989 as far as I can understand. Hakan At 18:35 26/04/2004, you wrote: Hi Art, Thank you for the link. Very interesting. I get to Spain from time-to-time and I'd like to try and see the prototype. Derek Derek, Try this one for size: http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2002/08/21/aus_power_020821http://www.cbc.ca/storie s/2002/08/21/aus_power_020821 Art Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: OT: auto safety tips
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:56:35 -, you wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To what you're written I would add some mention of public transportation, which in the end I'm guessing is dramatically safer per passenger-mile traveled, in addition perhaps to having some different uses of fuel per passeger-mile traveled, and perhaps having some different 'valuation' of those passenger miles (in that a person who has chosen to live in an urban environment may need to travel fewer miles per task), and I would add something somewhat related, which is some fundamental altering in our city and general planning. Perhaps someday I'll live somewhere that public transportation exists at all, let alone exists as a real alternative for driving. Eight towns in three states so far, and nowhere I could get a bus or a train to work. I do see horse and buggy rigs on the road around here, though. 8^) I know it works in some areas, but that doesn't help the rest of us. Ed Certainly a worthwhile point, in my view. I don't think there's a renewable energy technology in existence that applies to everyone all the time in all ways. That is part of why I constantly emphasize the importance that any solutions we theorize or come up with will have to be multiple and implemented on a variety of fronts. There are no busses in the community I'm presently in either. The closest thing I could think of might be the shuttles that seem to go from here to the big town and airport 1 hour away, if you look for them. In the case of busses and such, I do want to add that, in some ways, they are important to biofuels in that here are potential biofuel-users and overall-mileage-savers sometimes introduced in municipalities before smaller vehicles are. I've ridden on prototype diesel-electric and gasoline-electric and methanol-electric hybrid busses that cost a lot of money, but which might be afforded by a municipality looking for new and innovative energy-saving and air-saving features. For some reason, I've seen fewer such cars that seemed as likely to be brought to market as soon. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology or Conservation Investments
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:00:13 -0700, you wrote: Does anyone here have any ideas for investments in stocks (anywhere in the world... does *not* have to be North America) that have a good sustainable technology or energy technology or conservation angle? In the course of my research, ran across this interesting announcement today from Detroit Edison: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040427/detu019_1.html It says something about a Swiss company which manufactures the systems, so I have to go and research them now. It's a little gratifying to see DTE continue to come out with some of these efforts. I have a list of (for want of better words) utilities or near-utilities with sufficient fractional effort toward Sustainable Energy Technologies to warrant interest. DTE has been there for awhile, for me, but not in a huge way where I am that confident of the matter. So, with efforts like this, they provide some justification to me on that score. Presently the other two symbols I have in that sector, pending vetting them further, are CV and PHY.AX and, sort of, ANA.MC. I am cc'ing to Mark's local B100 group because maybe someone there can make use of some of these ideas, as far as more technology options for using biogas. Press Release Source: DTE Energy Technologies DTE Energy Technologies Introduces the ENI 140 and ENI 265 Tuesday April 27, 11:01 am ET FARMINGTON HILLS, Mich., April 27 /PRNewswire/ -- DTE Energy Technologies, a non-regulated subsidiary of DTE Energy, today announced the commercial availability of the ENI 140 and ENI 265 Lean Burn Biogas systems. ADVERTISEMENT Both new additions to the energy|now(TM) branded line of distributed generation products operate on waste gas from digesters or from other sources such as flare gas from landfills or oil and gas wells. The ENI 140 energy system is rated for continuous operation at 140 kilowatts (kW) and the ENI 265 energy system is rated at 265 kW. Both on-site energy products provide full combined heat and power capability with high electric and thermal efficiencies. These units fit a variety of applications including agriculture (dairies, swine and poultry farms), waste water treatment plants, landfills and food processing plants. The Menag Group AG of Switzerland manufactures the lean burn biogas systems. DTE Energy Technologies has an exclusive worldwide joint distribution agreement with Menag, which currently has more than 1,200 energy systems in use that have supplied hundreds of thousands of hours of efficient operation to their customers in Europe. Both systems utilize robust Liebherr diesel derivative engines and can be remotely monitored via the Internet by DTE Energy Technologies' proprietary energy|now System Operations Center(TM). These units bring us unique capabilities to serve the growing waste gas market, said Mark Fallek, chief marketing officer at DTE Energy Technologies. DTE Energy Technologies is a leading supplier of integrated on-site energy systems and services, with sales and support offices located throughout the United States and in Canada and a growing network of distribution partners in Europe and Asia. DTE Energy Technologies has shipped more than 2,000 standby and continuous duty energy systems since its founding in 1998. For more information on DTE Energy Technologies, visit http://www.dtetech.com . DTE Energy (NYSE: DTE - News) is a Detroit-based diversified energy company involved in the development and management of energy-related businesses and services nationwide. Its largest operating units are Detroit Edison, an electric utility serving 2.1 million customers in Southeastern Michigan, and MichCon, a natural gas utility serving 1.2 million customers in Michigan. Information about DTE Energy is available at http://www.dteenergy.com . Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Energy Policy: Supreme Court Hears Cheney Secrecy Case
My point of view on the immediate legal question is that I do not think that private meetings should be made public. I don't see how government researchers can carry out candid research if that is to take place. Meanwhile, three years later, what I think of as part of the real issue is still not discussed. Long before the issue of forcing open the Vice President's meeting records became a legal issue, it was already common public knowledge that part of the energy industry was being shut out from being able to participate in any real way in the formulation of policy. This was not in any way illegal, so far as I know. It may be an affront and an insult to some voters who recognized the poor judgment and maliciousness in this practice, but I think the Cheney team probably thought that if they could get people sympathetic to them (gosh, they're just trying to talk to the 'real' energy producers, and they're just trying to do their jobs and not speak to the 'unrealistic' greens) then they could have it be forgotten in the next election that their efforts were neither whole-hearted nor entirely competent. If it was not illegal (in itself) then it was in my view a sign of the malevolence and poor judgement that the Vice President's Team manifested in looking at Energy Policy, a clear sign of their lack of concern for working for the best possible future for the country in the area of Energy Policy, a sign that they simply didn't care to formulate the best possible policy and instead favored a half-baked and, in some ways, anti-sustainable, against-the-long-term-American-Future, policy. Is this news to anyone? I suggest that since it's never stated, and never discussed (so wrapped up are people in the legal scandal aspects), then, yes, it is news. To my knowledge, the Vice President's partially poor judgment and-or partial maliciousness and-or partial negligence and-or partial incompetence is not illegal. It is, however, (I thought to myself at the time, an issue for those asked to review the job that he has done and renew his contract to serve four more years on the Taxpayer Dollar. Sure, it's possible that illegal behaviour might be revealed if the records are forced open. These issues are complex, and I don't wish to sound naive. But to me the larger issue is simply that we do not have any rational discussion of Energy Policy in the United States, never mind the search to label activity scandalously illegal. I think the Vice President's Research was extremely scandalous, whether it is found legal or illegal. It showed, in my view, such wanton disrespect for those of us in the States that I wonder if he thought we'd forget this, come election time? The words solar energy and biofuels and wind energy and sustainable energy technologies and alternative-fuel higher-mileage vehicles and conservation in a capitalistic society seldom, if ever, pass through the lips of the President, the Vice President or anyone on their teams, much less are publicly debated or kicked-around or discussed. Not that those words are the only relevant topics in Energy Policy Discussion, but they are specific words which are conspicuously avoided. Now, why is that? http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=558ncid=718e=1u=/ap/20040427/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_cheney By GINA HOLLAND, Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON - The Constitution gives presidents and vice presidents power to gather advice and make decisions without being forced to reveal every detail of how those decisions are made, the Bush administration's top Supreme Court lawyer argued Tuesday. This is a case about the separation of powers, Solicitor General Theodore Olson told the justices at the start of lively arguments about privacy in White House policy-making. The nearly three-year fight over access to records of Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites)'s work on a national energy strategy came to the high court after a federal judge ordered what Olson called a broad, unconstitutional release of White House documents. The White House is framing the case as a major test of executive power, arguing that the forced disclosure of confidential records intrudes on a president's power to get truthful advice. Environmental and other interest groups claim the records will show whether the energy industry got special access or favors. Justices were told that former Enron chairman Ken Lay and others were players, but until the government produces records, it won't be clear if they actually drafted the government's policies. The question is what happened at those meetings, said Alan Morrison, the attorney for the Sierra Club (news - web sites). The legal issues in the case have been almost overshadowed by a political controversy involving Justice Antonin Scalia (news - web sites). He has refused to step down despite a controversy over a hunting trip he took with Cheney, an old friend, weeks after the high court agreed to hear
Re: [biofuel] Energy Policy: Supreme Court Hears Cheney Secrecy Case
For some reason it bothers me to have posted this. I'm glad to be able to make an attempt to dissect what I think are the issues here (trying to bring out the difference between what is illegal and, additionally, what I think should be criticized whether it is found illegal or not), but for some reason it bothers me. Maybe because I allow it to get to me too much, or arouse too much harsh language. I think I've seen this legal vs. ethical quandry at least twice before in recent years. One is in an essay that a friend of mine wrote, discussing the Perfectly Legal Looting of corporations. We couldn't find anyone (Tom Paine or anyone else) to publish it, so it is stuck here for anyone who wants to read it: http://www.herecomesmongo.com/commentary/ll.html Another, as I thought about it later, was specifically in the Enron case, and as it tied into the California Power crisis. What if no legal wrongdoing had been found? Would it then be ok that in the middle of a very big problem, where there were many fingers pointed in many directions, would it be ok to sit back and do nothing and *allegedly* let the market sort things out? One add-on thought, in my view, is that some (not all) of my fellows do not seem to want to allow that sometimes problems can be complex and discussions can be complex and it is sometimes necessary to be able to hold a thought or two in one's head that goes beyond so and so is a hero or so and so is a goat or such and such policy is awesome or such and such policy stinks and is evil. And so we end up having non-debates, sometimes, owing in part in my view to a tendency to over-simplify. So, I don't meant to contribute to that problem by using black-and-white harsh rhetoric about the VP. I do not mean to imply that I wouldn't want to give credit where it is due him or his team, where it is due, such as for example, if it is necessary to acknowledge the difficulty of formulating a good energy policy. I think part of the challenge that I find difficult to meet in offering intelligent criticism of their job is that they have been so totally able in shutting out and shutting down all sustainable-technology-discussion that it is difficult to find a solid foothold to start discussion of those technologies and related (if any) political science concepts. Ok, I have to go now, to look at this article you reference. MM On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 06:21:38 +0900, you wrote: Hi MM Very much agree with you, but it would be nice to see the guy getting a legal roasting for it, along with his pals - he's probably not going to get an electoral one, sad to say. Not very likely either, I know. Some of the ins and outs are discussed here: http://tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/10308 Wasting Energy Attorney Andrew Cohen analyzes legal issues for CBS News and CBSNews.com. Bes Keith My point of view on the immediate legal question is that I do not think that private meetings should be made public. I don't see how government researchers can carry out candid research if that is to take place. Meanwhile, three years later, what I think of as part of the real issue is still not discussed. Long before the issue of forcing open the Vice President's meeting records became a legal issue, it was already common public knowledge that part of the energy industry was being shut out from being able to participate in any real way in the formulation of policy. This was not in any way illegal, so far as I know. It may be an affront and an insult to some voters who recognized the poor judgment and maliciousness in this practice, but I think the Cheney team probably thought that if they could get people sympathetic to them (gosh, they're just trying to talk to the 'real' energy producers, and they're just trying to do their jobs and not speak to the 'unrealistic' greens) then they could have it be forgotten in the next election that their efforts were neither whole-hearted nor entirely competent. If it was not illegal (in itself) then it was in my view a sign of the malevolence and poor judgement that the Vice President's Team manifested in looking at Energy Policy, a clear sign of their lack of concern for working for the best possible future for the country in the area of Energy Policy, a sign that they simply didn't care to formulate the best possible policy and instead favored a half-baked and, in some ways, anti-sustainable, against-the-long-term-American-Future, policy. Is this news to anyone? I suggest that since it's never stated, and never discussed (so wrapped up are people in the legal scandal aspects), then, yes, it is news. To my knowledge, the Vice President's partially poor judgment and-or partial maliciousness and-or partial negligence and-or partial incompetence is not illegal. It is, however, (I thought to myself at the time, an issue for those asked to review the job that he has done and renew his contract to serve four more years on the Taxpayer Dollar. Sure, it's possible that
Re: [biofuel] OT: auto safety tips
To what you're written I would add some mention of public transportation, which in the end I'm guessing is dramatically safer per passenger-mile traveled, in addition perhaps to having some different uses of fuel per passeger-mile traveled, and perhaps having some different 'valuation' of those passenger miles (in that a person who has chosen to live in an urban environment may need to travel fewer miles per task), and I would add something somewhat related, which is some fundamental altering in our city and general planning. When it's all said and done, if the real costs of petroleum use as fuel were added up and reflected in the pump price, a number of interesting things would likely occur: 1) Less drivingfewer deaths/injuries and costs to the economy from the combination of driving-related factors including car-culture diet and lack of exercise. 2) A larger proportion of smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles 4) More use of renewable energy (it would make it easier for things like biodiesel at the B100 level to compete with fossil fuel if fossil fuel costs were reflected at the pump). New jobs in renewable energy technology and provision would take the place in the economy of jobs lost to fossil fuel-based transport. 5) A reduced requirement to pay military costs for access to imported oil. 6) Development of other non-renewables options within the country that are currently too expensive (e.g. extracting remaining reserves from old wells, by newer, more expensive methods, etc.) 7) Spur exploration within the country for more fossil fuel. 8) Increased development, and job creation, for new drive systems, new materials, new designs in the creation of a renewable energy economy. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Big and Bad: How The SUV ran over automotive safety
In addition to the other answers you've received, I will put in my two cents, which is that, in this rural part of Southern Arizona, I have looked around in a parking lot recently where it was hard to find too many cars. This helps bring to our attention the connection between the pickup trucks (of which one sees many) and the SUVs (of which one sees many). As to precisely which SUVs, that's hard to say, I don't pay overly much attention, but I think part of your experience may be based on what you've noticed and not what was there. Maybe now that we've had this conversation, you'll notice more? Another possibility I guess is a difference in vehicle-buying demographics between your area and our(s). I wonder, for those families with several vehicles (such as affluent parts of Baltimore or D.C.) if they put the larger SUVs away for a little, during a rise in fuel prices? On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:26:41 -0400, you wrote: I drive between Baltimore, MD and Washington, D.C. on 95 in some of the US's heaviest traffic every day to work. I see an Expedition maybe once a week and a Navigator maybe once a month. So I must ask, where are them all? Lillie - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Big and Bad: How The SUV ran over automotive safety http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_01_12_a_suv.html AP Hi Alan Thanks, I enjoyed that, learnt a lot - and about more than just SUVs. Good read. Regards Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Cellulose-Alcohol story.
I have also been trying to keep half an eye on them (Iogen itself is not publicly traded, which makes this a bit of a challenge, even if some of its investors apparently are), and on Genencor (stock symbol GCOR here in the US), and although riored's question was blunt, it does sort of summarize my own standing question about a lot of companies, particularly in this field. This field I have labled as important because of the DOE's comments some years ago as to the economic importance of turning cellulosic matter into ethanol. According to them, such an advance was more or less necessary - the key - to making ethanol more sustainable and economically viable in the U.S. This was in response to many of the questions as to the pricing and volumes available for Ethanol. I do *not* think such an argument by them should be taken at face value without questioning or discussion, but I did take it under advisement that some of the basis for the argument seemed to make some sense ... i.e., taking matter which, without the ethanol advancement, would have limited value, labled by some as waste, and adding a value to it. For some reason, I don't know why, I have Iogen ranked in my mind as less full of it than GCOR. From your update, I can see that Iogen has been in we're working on it in the lab mode similar to GCOR, and has received government research funding monies for awhile, also similar to GCOR. Last I checked with them, two or three years ago, mutual fund NALFX, one of the only really super-strict-interpretationist clean-technology-mutual-funds, (very small, modest long-term returns at best, but long-established since '82) had a stake in GCOR, or at least I think they did, ... they were following it... because of GCOR's ethanol angle. If nothing else, this helps illustrate the difficulty for clean-technology-fund-managers in finding biofuel investments outside of such as ADM. On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:30:33 -0400, you wrote: riored96 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Iogen for real,or bs. http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/04/22/sci-tech/biofuel040422 I guess it depends what you mean by for real. The company is real. They have at least 2 buildings here in the Ottawa area. They have had displays at several environmental events that I have attended over the past decade. I have had some contact with them over the years, and until very recently, they were not producing ethanol beyond the lab scale. They have been receiving grants and monies from a couple of petroleum companies (Shell and Petro-Canada) over the years to continue research on producing ethanol from cellulose stock. They have certainly had support from our federal minister of the Environment for years. As for the efficiency of the process, or how well it has scaled up, I have no idea. The truck that appeared in the TV item I saw belonged to a local petroleum retailer (MacEwen's), that have been one of the strongest local proponents of ethanol blended gasoline for several years now. The one print article I have seen was a bit of a mess (Ottawa Citzen newspaper), rather in keeping with my expectations of the Canadian mass media. Darryl McMahon Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
