Re: [Biofuel] Collapse was The Scent of Fear
once again, way off subject... cmon guys, there's other places for this isn't there? My apologies to the group for not snipping but to make the point... Please go back and read the message the administrative group sent to you when you first signed up for biofuels. You are not the arbiter of what is and isn't on topic. If you don't approve or appreciate the topic of a particular post, feel free to hit the delete button on your browser. That's what I do. It's an excellent habit to establish. Thank you for your cooperation in this matter. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Collapse was The Scent of Fear
Dear Bob, I read the whole editorial and quite poignant. My local newspaper suggested everyone read the new book Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared Diamond. I read his previous Pulitzer Prize-winning Guns, Germs, and Steel. http://www.booksellersnow.com/bsncollapse.htm Brilliant, illuminating, and immensely absorbing, Collapse is destined to take its place as one of the essential books of our time... The SF Chronicle has a good review: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/a/2005/01/09/RVGR6AJCCI1.DTLtype=books --- bmolloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, again, Seems as if the media is at last waking up to a few realities. Who would have believed the the geriatric New York Times would ever have run a story such as this. Bob. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/10/opinion/10herbert.html New York TimesJanuary 10, 2005 Op-Ed columnist The Scent of Fear By Bob Herbert The assembly line of carnage in George W. Bush's war in Iraq continues unabated. Nightmares don't last this long, so the death and destruction must be real. You know you're in serious trouble when the politicians and the military brass don't even bother suggesting that there's light at the end of the tunnel. The only thing ahead is a deep and murderous darkness. With the insurgency becoming both stronger and bolder, and the chances of conducting a legitimate election growing grimmer by the day, a genuine sense of alarm can actually be detected in the reality-resistant hierarchy of the Bush administration. The unthinkable is getting a tentative purchase in the minds of the staunchest supporters of the war: that under the current circumstances, and given existing troop strengths, the U.S. and its Iraqi allies may not be able to prevail. Military officials are routinely talking about a major U.S. presence in Iraq that will last, at a minimum, into the next decade. That is not what most Americans believed when the Bush crowd so enthusiastically sold this war as a noble adventure that would be short and sweet, and would end with Iraqis tossing garlands of flowers at American troops. The reality, of course, is that this war is like all wars - fearsomely brutal and tragic. The administration was jolted into the realization of just how badly the war was going by the brazen suicide bombing just a few days before Christmas inside a mess tent of a large and supposedly heavily fortified military base in Mosul. Fourteen American soldiers and four American contractors were among the dead. Seven American soldiers were killed last Thursday when their Bradley armored personnel carrier hit a roadside bomb in northwestern Baghdad. Two U.S. marines were killed the same day in Anbar. Brig. Gen. David Rodriguez told reporters at the Pentagon on Friday of an ominous new development in Iraq. We've noticed in the recent couple of weeks, he said, that the I.E.D.'s [improvised explosive devices] are all being built more powerfully, with more explosive effort in a smaller number of I.E.D.'s. Mr. Bush's so-called pre-emptive war, which has already cost so many lives, is being enveloped by the foul and unmistakable odor of failure. That's why the Pentagon is dispatching a retired four-star general, Gary Luck, to Iraq to assess the entire wretched operation. The hope in Washington is that he will pull a rabbit out of a hat. His mission is to review the military's entire Iraq policy, and do it quickly. I hope, as he is touring the regions in which the U.S. is still using conventional tactics against a guerrilla foe, that he keeps in mind how difficult it is to defeat local insurgencies, and other indigenous forces, as exemplified by such widely varying historical examples as the French experiences in Indochina and Algeria, the American experience in Vietnam, the Israeli experience in Lebanon, and so on. But even the fortuitously named General Luck will be helpless to straighten anything out in time for the Iraqi elections. The commander of American ground forces in Iraq, Lt. Gen. Thomas Metz, made it clear last week that significant areas of four major provinces, which together contain nearly half the population of the entire country, are not safe enough for people to vote. Today I would not be in much shape to hold elections in those provinces, said General Metz. With the war draining the military of the troops needed for commitments worldwide, the Pentagon is being forced to take extraordinary steps to maintain adequate troop strength. A temporary increase of 30,000 soldiers for the Army, already approved by Congress, will most likely be made permanent. The Pentagon is also considering plans to further change the rules about mobilizing members of the National Guard and Reserve. Right now they cannot be called up for more than 24 months of active service.
Re: [Biofuel] Collapse was The Scent of Fear
once again, way off subject... cmon guys, there's other places for this isn't there? My apologies to the group for not snipping but to make the point... - Original Message - From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Collapse was The Scent of Fear Dear Bob, I read the whole editorial and quite poignant. My local newspaper suggested everyone read the new book Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared Diamond. I read his previous Pulitzer Prize-winning Guns, Germs, and Steel. http://www.booksellersnow.com/bsncollapse.htm Brilliant, illuminating, and immensely absorbing, Collapse is destined to take its place as one of the essential books of our time... The SF Chronicle has a good review: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/a/2005/01/09/RVGR6AJCCI1.DTLtype=books --- bmolloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, again, Seems as if the media is at last waking up to a few realities. Who would have believed the the geriatric New York Times would ever have run a story such as this. Bob. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/10/opinion/10herbert.html New York TimesJanuary 10, 2005 Op-Ed columnist The Scent of Fear By Bob Herbert The assembly line of carnage in George W. Bush's war in Iraq continues unabated. Nightmares don't last this long, so the death and destruction must be real. You know you're in serious trouble when the politicians and the military brass don't even bother suggesting that there's light at the end of the tunnel. The only thing ahead is a deep and murderous darkness. With the insurgency becoming both stronger and bolder, and the chances of conducting a legitimate election growing grimmer by the day, a genuine sense of alarm can actually be detected in the reality-resistant hierarchy of the Bush administration. The unthinkable is getting a tentative purchase in the minds of the staunchest supporters of the war: that under the current circumstances, and given existing troop strengths, the U.S. and its Iraqi allies may not be able to prevail. Military officials are routinely talking about a major U.S. presence in Iraq that will last, at a minimum, into the next decade. That is not what most Americans believed when the Bush crowd so enthusiastically sold this war as a noble adventure that would be short and sweet, and would end with Iraqis tossing garlands of flowers at American troops. The reality, of course, is that this war is like all wars - fearsomely brutal and tragic. The administration was jolted into the realization of just how badly the war was going by the brazen suicide bombing just a few days before Christmas inside a mess tent of a large and supposedly heavily fortified military base in Mosul. Fourteen American soldiers and four American contractors were among the dead. Seven American soldiers were killed last Thursday when their Bradley armored personnel carrier hit a roadside bomb in northwestern Baghdad. Two U.S. marines were killed the same day in Anbar. Brig. Gen. David Rodriguez told reporters at the Pentagon on Friday of an ominous new development in Iraq. We've noticed in the recent couple of weeks, he said, that the I.E.D.'s [improvised explosive devices] are all being built more powerfully, with more explosive effort in a smaller number of I.E.D.'s. Mr. Bush's so-called pre-emptive war, which has already cost so many lives, is being enveloped by the foul and unmistakable odor of failure. That's why the Pentagon is dispatching a retired four-star general, Gary Luck, to Iraq to assess the entire wretched operation. The hope in Washington is that he will pull a rabbit out of a hat. His mission is to review the military's entire Iraq policy, and do it quickly. I hope, as he is touring the regions in which the U.S. is still using conventional tactics against a guerrilla foe, that he keeps in mind how difficult it is to defeat local insurgencies, and other indigenous forces, as exemplified by such widely varying historical examples as the French experiences in Indochina and Algeria, the American experience in Vietnam, the Israeli experience in Lebanon, and so on. But even the fortuitously named General Luck will be helpless to straighten anything out in time for the Iraqi elections. The commander of American ground forces in Iraq, Lt. Gen. Thomas Metz, made it clear last week that significant areas of four major provinces, which together contain nearly half the population of the entire country, are not safe enough for people to vote. Today I would not be in much shape to hold elections in those provinces, said General Metz. With the war draining the military of the troops needed
Re: [Biofuel] Collapse was The Scent of Fear
A common misconception among new list members is that the discussion only pertains to biofuels (who would have thought?) Anyway, read this message: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/32373/ Thanks. -- Martin K http://wwia.org/sgroup/biofuel/ A Lawrence wrote: once again, way off subject... cmon guys, there's other places for this isn't there? My apologies to the group for not snipping but to make the point... ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Collapse was The Scent of Fear
Information on a book about how eco-meltdowns affect society being off topic? I can't think of much that is more pertinent to the subject of biofuels. Brian once again, way off subject... cmon guys, there's other places for this isn't there? My apologies to the group for not snipping but to make the point... - Original Message - From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Collapse was The Scent of Fear ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Collapse was The Scent of Fear
Good points...my apologies submitted. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Information on a book about how eco-meltdowns affect society being off topic? I can't think of much that is more pertinent to the subject of biofuels. Brian once again, way off subject... cmon guys, there's other places for this isn't there? My apologies to the group for not snipping but to make the point... - Original Message - From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Collapse was The Scent of Fear ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Collapse was The Scent of Fear
I let Brian's topic cop message through so I could point out that it is not up to third parties to be the moderator. Please read this message: -- Date: 2004-02-26 From: Keith Addison Subject: [biofuel] PLEASE READ - MODERATOR'S MESSAGE -- Discussion on this list is free and OPEN. Biofuels is a broad-ranging subject. It's an international list with a very diverse membership from many different cultures and more than a hundred countries, and their views of what is on- or off-topic vary widely. This is the majority view here. Those who call for restrictions are a tiny minority - if we did it their way the majority would be deprived. Keeping the discussions open deprives nobody and prevents nothing - directly on-topic biofuels discussions continue unhindered all the while. If people have problems with clogged email inboxes, they should learn how to use filters - essential to using any email lists, not just this one. For more info see: http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/21700/ Some posts are definitely off-topic by any measure, but those posting them know it and seldom stray too far. List members are mature people and do not need nannying by topic-cops. Anyway, such digressions often lead to discussion that's very much on-topic and would not otherwise have arisen. So: NO TOPIC-COPS. NO CALLS FOR RESTRICTED DISCUSSION. These are list rules and they will be enforced. Finally, regarding the two links at the bottom of every message you receive, these: Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ The first is the premier source of small-scale biofuels information on the Web. The second is a treasure house of information on all aspects of biofuels, especially biodiesel - it contains 33,000 messages over the last for years, many of them from leaders in the field worldwide. It is an independent archives, not Yahoo's, provided and maintained by list member Martin Klingensmith, with powerful, fast and efficient searching, and no ads. If you have biofuels questions, go ahead and ask, if there's something you want to discuss, nothing's stopping you, if you have information to offer please do so. Best wishes Keith Addison List owner --- Phillip Wolfe wrote: Good points...my apologies submitted. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
