Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
I believe that the quote from Ahmadinejad saying that he wanted to wipe israel off the map was taken out of context. He was talking about how after World War II, the european powers arbitrarily drew Israel on the map where it didn't exist before (and where other people lived). Does anyone have the full text of that speach? I'll see if I can find it. Zeke On 1/16/06, robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jtcava wrote: Just this;The government of Israel does not espouse the total eradication of the Iranian people. If their treatment of the Palestinians is any indication, I'm not confident that you are correct. What a nation SAYS and what it actually DOES are two different things. While on the other hand Iran would probably use it's nukes to further the cause of Islam,mainly the destruction of the state of Israel. What evidence can you offer to support this contention? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Zeke Yewdall wrote: While he is wrong in his insistence that the holocaust (or the millions of Jews murdered in Europe for the 1000 years before the Holocaust) didn't happen, I think he does have a point. If europe felt so bad about the holocaust, why did they foist their problem on the middle east instead of dealing with it themselves? (and they haven't dealt with it -- anti-semitism is still widespread there) I don't think anyone can seriously doubt that the Hebrew people have a historical link to the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. In some ways, the Europeanization of this issue began back when Pompey took over the region back in 60 BCE or so. (Please correct me if I'm wrong here!) After the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, the Jewish people HAD no homeland any more. So, in a sense, it IS a European problem. This seems just as damning of the Europeans/americans as the Iranians -- just send the Jews off to somewhere else, and we'll pay for them to defend themselves so we can feel more moral about it, just so long as they leave our countries. I'm not defending Iran here, but I don't think they are the only anti-semitic ones playing on this stage. At least they're being honest. I think you've brought up an excellent point. The anti-Semitism to which you refer still exists all over the world. It's convenient to think that we could move people we don't like somewhere else, just as the Hitlerites originally thought they could solve their problem by exporting Jews, Gypsies and Slavs to Madagascar. The Palestinians, however, are also Semitic in origin, are they not? So in a sense, isn't the Israeli government being racist in its actions, too? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Try this link. Still not the full quote, but more. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4510922.stm If European countries claim that they have killed Jews in World War II... why don't they provide the Zionist regime with a piece of Europe, .Germany and Austria can provide the... regime with two or three provinces for this regime to establish itself, and the issue will be resolved. While he is wrong in his insistence that the holocaust (or the millions of Jews murdered in Europe for the 1000 years before the Holocaust) didn't happen, I think he does have a point. If europe felt so bad about the holocaust, why did they foist their problem on the middle east instead of dealing with it themselves? (and they haven't dealt with it -- anti-semitism is still widespread there) This seems just as damning of the Europeans/americans as the Iranians -- just send the Jews off to somewhere else, and we'll pay for them to defend themselves so we can feel more moral about it, just so long as they leave our countries. I'm not defending Iran here, but I don't think they are the only anti-semitic ones playing on this stage. At least they're being honest. On 1/17/06, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe that the quote from Ahmadinejad saying that he wanted to wipe israel off the map was taken out of context. He was talking about how after World War II, the european powers arbitrarily drew Israel on the map where it didn't exist before (and where other people lived). Does anyone have the full text of that speach? I'll see if I can find it. Zeke On 1/16/06, robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jtcava wrote: Just this;The government of Israel does not espouse the total eradication of the Iranian people. If their treatment of the Palestinians is any indication, I'm not confident that you are correct. What a nation SAYS and what it actually DOES are two different things. While on the other hand Iran would probably use it's nukes to further the cause of Islam,mainly the destruction of the state of Israel. What evidence can you offer to support this contention? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
And it has been a sore point ever since. I wonder what would have happened had a chunk of Germany been parceled off and given to the Jews. Notwithstanding the historical link to the middle east and all that, there was a perfect excuse after Germany was conquered (as is always the case with conquered lands) for the victors to do as they see fit. Many of the Jews had been living there anyways. The Germans would have had no right to complain about it considering. Granted Europe is not without its history of territorial disputes but I have always wondered what the world would be like today if that choice had been made rather than just going in and forcibly taking control of the area that became Israel?? Where's that undo button Keith was looking for? Joe Zeke Yewdall wrote: I believe that the quote from Ahmadinejad saying that he wanted to wipe israel off the map was taken out of context. He was talking about how after World War II, the european powers arbitrarily drew Israel on the map where it didn't exist before (and where other people lived). Does anyone have the full text of that speach? I'll see if I can find it. Zeke ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
The Palestinians, however, are also Semitic in origin, are they not? From a religious studies perspective, I believe Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all semetic religions, and originally stem from Judaism which was founded (or evolved from previous multi-diety/agricultural religions) in the middle east around 4,000 years ago. Jesus was a Jew who began Christianity, and Mohammad was a Christian who began Islam. As I understand it (and I'm not an expert by any means), the Jewish holy book is very similar to the Old Testament, and the Koran takes parts of both the old and new testament, and adds on to it. The Mormon religion is also an offshoot of Christianity, where Josesh Smith added his own new book to the Bible. It has just had fewer years to diverge than Christianity from Judaism, or Islam from Christianity. A good read on this (fictionalization of middle eastern religious history) is The Source, by James A. Michener Z On 1/17/06, robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zeke Yewdall wrote: While he is wrong in his insistence that the holocaust (or the millions of Jews murdered in Europe for the 1000 years before the Holocaust) didn't happen, I think he does have a point. If europe felt so bad about the holocaust, why did they foist their problem on the middle east instead of dealing with it themselves? (and they haven't dealt with it -- anti-semitism is still widespread there) I don't think anyone can seriously doubt that the Hebrew people have a historical link to the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. In some ways, the Europeanization of this issue began back when Pompey took over the region back in 60 BCE or so. (Please correct me if I'm wrong here!) After the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, the Jewish people HAD no homeland any more. So, in a sense, it IS a European problem. This seems just as damning of the Europeans/americans as the Iranians -- just send the Jews off to somewhere else, and we'll pay for them to defend themselves so we can feel more moral about it, just so long as they leave our countries. I'm not defending Iran here, but I don't think they are the only anti-semitic ones playing on this stage. At least they're being honest. I think you've brought up an excellent point. The anti-Semitism to which you refer still exists all over the world. It's convenient to think that we could move people we don't like somewhere else, just as the Hitlerites originally thought they could solve their problem by exporting Jews, Gypsies and Slavs to Madagascar. The Palestinians, however, are also Semitic in origin, are they not? So in a sense, isn't the Israeli government being racist in its actions, too? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Zeke Yewdall wrote: From a religious studies perspective, I believe Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all semetic religions, and originally stem from Judaism which was founded (or evolved from previous multi-diety/agricultural religions) in the middle east around 4,000 years ago. Perhaps it's more accurate to say that all three religions stemmed from the faith of a single man, a wanderer (Habiru, in one of the ancient languages) named Abram who believed in God. His sons, Ishmael and Isaac, are reckoned as inheritors of the promises God made to Abram. Islam traces its lineage of faith through Ishmael, the Jews and Christians through Isaac. A tragedy in all of this discussion centers upon promises for prosperity that God made to Abram thousands of years ago. These are used as a pretext to justify all manner of behaviors which God clearly does not approve (murder, theft, covetousness, etc.) by the hypocrisy of ignoring these clear commands for the sake of achieving political ends. If God made the promises, he should be left to deliver on them WITHOUT our getting in the way. (After all, if he is God, why would he need us to help him?) So now we're talking about possible sanctions against Iran. In an interview Karl Vick yesterday, NPR broadcast a contention that Iran's nuclear program was first discovered three years ago, but that it had been going on in secret for 18 years. What I found interesting in this centers upon Karl Vick's admission that the Iranians, according to the provisions of treaties they've signed, have the full right to develop nuclear power. Yet Mr. Vick, who is a reporter for The Washington Post, consistently blended the concepts of nuclear power with nuclear weapons, as if the two were completely interchangeable. Canada has had nuclear power reactors for many years, but nobody worries that Canada is developing WMDs. I don't hear the same kind of concern about nuclear weapons up here that Karl Vick casually mixed in to his discussion with Melissa Block on NPR. One of the most frightening things about this kind of talk, is that once the non-thinking public begins to believe that nuclear power = nuclear weapons, we're easily maneuvered into thinking that the only solution to the potential threat lies in preventing nations like Iran (who are not good like us, after all) from building power plants at all costs. Mr. Vick pointed out, however, that the Iranians see this as scientific apartheid, and that there is no level playing field among nations when it comes to nuclear power. Then, he launched into a comparison of the Iranian president with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez and leftist president Morales of Bolivia. He might as well have said that the Iranians are in league with the devil, given the prevailing attitude of most Americans to those particular leaders. Even though at the very end of the interview he admitted that Iran is talking about power, NOT nuclear weapons, the damage had already been done. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5159746 I was a little disappointed that Melissa Block didn't take her colleague to task over this. It seems like we're being duped again. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
The US hasn't been warmongering after Canada for the past 5 years. Most people cannot think of a good reason Canada would want nuclear weapons. The reason that everyone is so quick to believe that Iran is trying to get nuclear weapons is that the current administration is very obviously antagonistic towards them. Most people would try to get weapons themselves if they were in Iran's position to protect themselves against the malevolence of the US. Most people would probably not admit it because that would imply that we are reaping what we sow.On 1/17/06, robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zeke Yewdall wrote:From a religious studies perspective, I believe Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all semetic religions, and originally stem from Judaism which was founded (or evolved from previous multi-diety/agricultural religions) in the middle east around 4,000 years ago.Perhaps it's more accurate to say that all three religions stemmedfrom the faith of a single man, a wanderer (Habiru, in one of the ancient languages) named Abram who believed in God.His sons, Ishmaeland Isaac, are reckoned as inheritors of the promises God made toAbram.Islam traces its lineage of faith through Ishmael, the Jewsand Christians through Isaac. A tragedy in all of this discussion centers upon promises forprosperity that God made to Abram thousands of years ago.These areused as a pretext to justify all manner of behaviors which God clearly does not approve (murder, theft, covetousness, etc.) by the hypocrisyof ignoring these clear commands for the sake of achieving politicalends.If God made the promises, he should be left to deliver on them WITHOUT our getting in the way.(After all, if he is God, why wouldhe need us to help him?)So now we're talking about possible sanctions against Iran.In aninterview Karl Vick yesterday, NPR broadcast a contention that Iran's nuclear program was first discovered three years ago, but that it hadbeen going on in secret for 18 years.What I found interesting inthis centers upon Karl Vick's admission that the Iranians, accordingto the provisions of treaties they've signed, have the full right to develop nuclear power.Yet Mr. Vick, who is a reporter for TheWashington Post, consistently blended the concepts of nuclear powerwith nuclear weapons, as if the two were completely interchangeable.Canada has had nuclear power reactors for many years, but nobody worries that Canada is developing WMDs.I don't hear the same kind ofconcern about nuclear weapons up here that Karl Vick casually mixed into his discussion with Melissa Block on NPR.One of the mostfrightening things about this kind of talk, is that once the non-thinking public begins to believe that nuclear power = nuclearweapons, we're easily maneuvered into thinking that the only solutionto the potential threat lies in preventing nations like Iran (who arenot good like us, after all) from building power plants at all costs. Mr. Vick pointed out, however, that the Iranians see this asscientific apartheid, and that there is no level playing fieldamong nations when it comes to nuclear power.Then, he launched into a comparison of the Iranian president with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavezand leftist president Morales of Bolivia.He might as well havesaid that the Iranians are in league with the devil, given the prevailing attitude of most Americans to those particular leaders.Even though at the very end of the interview he admitted that Iran istalking about power, NOT nuclear weapons, the damage had already beendone. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5159746I was a little disappointed that Melissa Block didn't take her colleague to task over this.It seems like we're being duped again.robert luis rabelloThe Edge of JusticeAdventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Paul Webber[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Paul Webber wrote: The US hasn't been warmongering after Canada for the past 5 years. Most people cannot think of a good reason Canada would want nuclear weapons. The reason that everyone is so quick to believe that Iran is trying to get nuclear weapons is that the current administration is very obviously antagonistic towards them. Most people would try to get weapons themselves if they were in Iran's position to protect themselves against the malevolence of the US. Most people would probably not admit it because that would imply that we are reaping what we sow. Well, if the Bloc Quebecois ever won a majority in Parliament and seriously made an effort to separate from Canada, you might see things change on the south side of the border. I can hear the headlines already: French Vote to Dismantle Democracy in Canada. Hostile French Canadian Government Opposes US Foreign Policy. Alberta Energy Minister Warns Tar Sands Not for Sale. Candu Reactor Suspected of Plutonium Production. US Troops Rescue Canada in Operation Northern Freedom. We Americans would have to come up here and straighten things out, putting those Francophones back into their place, and securing all of that energy that Alberta and British Columbia don't seem to know what to do with. Then, we could put an end to that silly softwood lumber dispute once and for all. You Canadians would welcome us with open arms, after all . . . wouldn't you??? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
And it has been a sore point ever since. I wonder what would have happened had a chunk of Germany been parceled off and given to the Jews. Notwithstanding the historical link to the middle east and all that, there was a perfect excuse after Germany was conquered (as is always the case with conquered lands) for the victors to do as they see fit. Many of the Jews had been living there anyways. The Germans would have had no right to complain about it considering. Granted Europe is not without its history of territorial disputes but I have always wondered what the world would be like today if that choice had been made rather than just going in and forcibly taking control of the area that became Israel?? Quite a lot of Gulf Arabs told me something similar in the late 70s when I was working on Gulf issues, only they said, Why didn't they put it in Australia? Mike posted a Churchill piece about Zionism versus Bolshevism, which of course leads back to the Balfour Declaration. (Lots about all this in the list archives.) There's also this: http://ajedrez_democratico.tripod.com/balfour_declaration.htm The Balfour Declaration A history of perfidy and betrayal in the Mideast gives insight into the motivations behind the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. By Dr. Robert John It's a nest of snakes, this subject, be warned. Not saying don't do it, just don't be too surprised if it starts getting venomous, with facts and integrity an early casualty. Where's that undo button Keith was looking for? C'mon Joe, if you can make a titration kit I'm sure you can make an Undo button, it's the same kind of black magic isn't it? Joe Zeke Yewdall wrote: I believe that the quote from Ahmadinejad saying that he wanted to wipe israel off the map was taken out of context. He was talking about how after World War II, the european powers arbitrarily drew Israel on the map where it didn't exist before (and where other people lived). But it wasn't after World War II, it was after World War I, or during World War 1. Does anyone have the full text of that speach? I'll see if I can find it. Nice point Zeke, I'm glad you found part of it at least. Try this link. Still not the full quote, but more. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4510922.stm If European countries claim that they have killed Jews in World War II... why don't they provide the Zionist regime with a piece of Europe, .Germany and Austria can provide the... regime with two or three provinces for this regime to establish itself, and the issue will be resolved. While he is wrong in his insistence that the holocaust (or the millions of Jews murdered in Europe for the 1000 years before the Holocaust) didn't happen, I think he does have a point. If europe felt so bad about the holocaust, why did they foist their problem on the middle east instead of dealing with it themselves? (and they haven't dealt with it -- anti-semitism is still widespread there) This seems just as damning of the Europeans/americans as the Iranians -- just send the Jews off to somewhere else, and we'll pay for them to defend themselves so we can feel more moral about it, just so long as they leave our countries. I'm not defending Iran here, but I don't think they are the only anti-semitic ones playing on this stage. At least they're being honest. By the way, surveys have found that anti-Semitism in Europe has decreased, but anti-Zionism has increased. Just to distinguish between the two. It's not clear that the Iranians are anti-Semitic, but they're certainly anti-Zionist. But then who in the Middle East isn't anti-Zionist, outside Israel? More than a few Israeli Jews are also anti-Zionist, more than a few American Jews too. Best Keith Zeke ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Paul Webber wrote: The US hasn't been warmongering after Canada for the past 5 years. And it's a damn good thing too. Believe me none of us want to have to go down there AGAIN and kick their butts like we did the last four times they got unruly and we wouldn't want to be forced to burn down their parliament buildings AGAIN either! Let's hope it doesn't come to that. Most people cannot think of a good reason Canada would want nuclear weapons. Well we do have a very ferocious rodent we call the turbo beaver. This is the nefarious creature that appears on the 5 cent peice and legend has it that they have a leader of enormous proportions that resides in the vicinity of Sudbury. Dynamite is only resonably effective in dealing with the dams these buggers build seemingly overnight. It would be nice to have something a tad stronger you know. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
hehe, a beaver of mass destruction!!LOL!fredOn 1/17/06, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Paul Webber wrote: The US hasn't been warmongering after Canada for the past 5 years. And it's a damn good thing too.Believe me none of us want to have togo down there AGAIN and kick their butts like we did the last four timesthey got unruly and we wouldn't want to be forced to burn down their parliament buildings AGAIN either! Let's hope it doesn't come to that. Most people cannot think of a good reason Canada would want nuclear weapons.Well we do have a very ferocious rodent we call the turbo beaver. This is the nefarious creature that appears on the 5 cent peice and legendhas it that they have a leader of enormous proportions that resides inthe vicinity of Sudbury.Dynamite is only resonably effective indealing with the dams these buggers build seemingly overnight.It would be nice to have something a tad stronger you know.Joe___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
You KNOW her? Fred Finch wrote: hehe, a beaver of mass destruction!! LOL! fred On 1/17/06, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Webber wrote: The US hasn't been warmongering after Canada for the past 5 years. And it's a damn good thing too.Believe me none of us want to have to go down there AGAIN and kick their butts like we did the last four times they got unruly and we wouldn't want to be forced to burn down their parliament buildings AGAIN either! Let's hope it doesn't come to that. Most people cannot think of a good reason Canada would want nuclear weapons. Well we do have a very ferocious rodent we call the turbo beaver. This is the nefarious creature that appears on the 5 cent peice and legend has it that they have a leader of enormous proportions that resides in the vicinity of Sudbury.Dynamite is only resonably effective in dealing with the dams these buggers build seemingly overnight.It would be nice to have something a tad stronger you know. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
robert luis rabello wrote: We Americans would have to come up here and straighten things out, putting those Francophones back into their place, and securing all of that energy snip Don't forget about the softwood! Wouldn't do to forgo pilfering that too! And the water. Oh and the salmon or is that all gone now? Ah did I forget anything oh yeah the comedians and country singers, hockey stars, - well the whole game actually, let's see what elseoh yeah how could I forget the aeronautical engineers, the doctors, the nurses, the programmers and uh did I mention the cobalt and the uranium well I guess that goes with the oil and stuff right? I'm warning you operation beaver fever is well under way and these killer forest rats are spin hardened and laugh at the very idea of your F4 wild weasles. Be afraid. Be verrry affraid. J ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Hey Robert, thats exactly what i am telling my Quebecer Freinds since 20 Jears Fritz from Quebec - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran Paul Webber wrote: The US hasn't been warmongering after Canada for the past 5 years. Most people cannot think of a good reason Canada would want nuclear weapons. The reason that everyone is so quick to believe that Iran is trying to get nuclear weapons is that the current administration is very obviously antagonistic towards them. Most people would try to get weapons themselves if they were in Iran's position to protect themselves against the malevolence of the US. Most people would probably not admit it because that would imply that we are reaping what we sow.Well, if the Bloc Quebecois ever won a majority in Parliament and seriously made an effort to separate from Canada, you might see things change on the south side of the border. I can hear the headlines already:"French Vote to Dismantle Democracy in Canada.""Hostile French Canadian Government Opposes US Foreign Policy.""Alberta Energy Minister Warns Tar Sands Not for Sale.""Candu Reactor Suspected of Plutonium Production.""US Troops Rescue Canada in Operation Northern Freedom."We Americans would have to come up here and straighten things out, putting those Francophones back into their place, and securing all of that energy that Alberta and British Columbia don't seem to know what to do with. Then, we could put an end to that silly softwood lumber dispute once and for all. You Canadians would welcome us with open arms, after all . . . wouldn't you???robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
More than you know!!!On 1/17/06, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You KNOW her? Fred Finch wrote: hehe, a beaver of mass destruction!! LOL! fred On 1/17/06, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Webber wrote: The US hasn't been warmongering after Canada for the past 5 years. And it's a damn good thing too.Believe me none of us want to have to go down there AGAIN and kick their butts like we did the last four times they got unruly and we wouldn't want to be forced to burn down their parliament buildings AGAIN either! Let's hope it doesn't come to that. Most people cannot think of a good reason Canada would want nuclear weapons. Well we do have a very ferocious rodent we call the turbo beaver. This is the nefarious creature that appears on the 5 cent peice and legend has it that they have a leader of enormous proportions that resides in the vicinity of Sudbury.Dynamite is only resonably effective in dealing with the dams these buggers build seemingly overnight.It would be nice to have something a tad stronger you know. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Fritz Friesinger wrote: Hey Robert, thats exactly what i am telling my Quebecer Freinds since 20 Jears Fritz from Quebec I've never met a Quebecer I didn't like! Long ago, I actually planned to write a book about a US invasion of Canada. I thought a Hispanic soldier from the LA Barrio might meet up with a Francophone resistance fighter and fall in love. He speaks Spanish, she speaks French. She's Roman Catholic, so is he. They both live in within a sea of Anglophones. Silly idea, really . . . Or is it? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
What's the big deal about Iran having nukes? Why shouldn't they have them just like the others in the club? Who is to say "No you are not mature enough to have these things" ?? Certainly not the US which has actually used them on people. " Do as I say, not as I do!" LOL LOL As long as people contuinue to invent and build weapons of terror, the only chance for peace is when everybody has one and therefore has an equal voice at the negotiating table. Things may actually get very civilized when every small nation has the ability to destroy the world. Joe Rexis Tree wrote: So many wargames people playing and feel fun, superweapon nuke shoot like no tomorrow. Maybe cybergames is the thing to save the world, so people will only do virtual war, and then the real war never happen. Very true the deadliest war weapon is for peace, and very true that when every single life on this planet is eliminated. And then the real peace will arrive - just like Mars, no life, no water, nothing. Peace, is just like a joke. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Re: "...others in the club?"'Indo-US deal will make India a nuclear power'Press Trust of IndiaNew Delhi, January 12, 2006 Influential American Senator and former Democrat Presidential candidate John Kerry on Thursday voiced support for the Indo-US deal.According to Kerry, implementation of the Indo-US deal on civilian nuclear cooperation will mean grant of nuclear power status to India.Kerry told a press conference here that the deal, with "enormous benefits" bilaterally, cannot be seen only in the context of Indo-US relations but had implications at the global level. Kerry, a member of the US Senate's Foreign Relations Committee, said Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had told him during their meeting in New Delhi on Wednesday that India would sign the Fissile Material Control Treaty (FMCT)."I will be disingenuous to suggest that if the (Indo-US) agreement (on civilian nuclear cooperation) comes through, it will not grant nuclear power status to India. Obviously, it does," he said.http://www.hindustantimes.com/2006/Jan/15/181_1596711,001301790001.htmJoe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the big deal about Iran having nukes? Why shouldn't they have them just like the others in the club? Who is to say "No you are not mature enough to have these things" ?? Certainly not the US which has actually used them on people. " Do as I say, not as I do!" LOL LOLAs long as people contuinue to invent and build weapons of terror, the only chance for peace is when everybody has one and therefore has an equal voice at the negotiating table. Things may actually get very civilized when every small nation has the ability to destroy the world.JoeRexis Tree wrote: So many wargames people playing and feel fun, superweapon nuke shoot like no tomorrow. Maybe cybergames is the thing to save the world, so people will only do virtual war, and then the real war never happen.Very true the deadliest war weapon is for peace, and very true that when every single life on this planet is eliminated. And then the real peace will arrive - just like Mars, no life, no water, nothing. Peace, is just like a joke.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
ROFLMAO! I had a sentance in there about india and then I deleted it. Funny how India is now welcomed into the fold eh? Couldn't have anything to do with China or Korea now could it? But what about India's big gas deal with Iran, what will the US do for them on that score? Maybe once Iran is conquered it will be ok? PSit was only a few minutes before I recieved the expected response to my post (offlist) vis What about the looneys who will use them? Ahh we are such well heeled dogs and we learn the litany of fear so well and repeat it in our minds so willingly! J Michael Redler wrote: Re: "...others in the club?" 'Indo-US deal will make India a nuclear power' Press Trust of India New Delhi, January 12, 2006 Influential American Senator and former Democrat Presidential candidate John Kerry on Thursday voiced support for the Indo-US deal. According to Kerry, implementation of the Indo-US deal on civilian nuclear cooperation will mean grant of nuclear power status to India. Kerry told a press conference here that the deal, with "enormous benefits" bilaterally, cannot be seen only in the context of Indo-US relations but had implications at the global level. Kerry, a member of the US Senate's Foreign Relations Committee, said Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had told him during their meeting in New Delhi on Wednesday that India would sign the Fissile Material Control Treaty (FMCT). "I will be disingenuous to suggest that if the (Indo-US) agreement (on civilian nuclear cooperation) comes through, it will not grant nuclear power status to India. Obviously, it does," he said. http://www.hindustantimes.com/2006/Jan/15/181_1596711,001301790001.htm Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the big deal about Iran having nukes? Why shouldn't they have them just like the others in the club? Who is to say "No you are not mature enough to have these things" ?? Certainly not the US which has actually used them on people. " Do as I say, not as I do!" LOL LOL As long as people contuinue to invent and build weapons of terror, the only chance for peace is when everybody has one and therefore has an equal voice at the negotiating table. Things may actually get very civilized when every small nation has the ability to destroy the world. Joe Rexis Tree wrote: So many wargames people playing and feel fun, superweapon nuke shoot like no tomorrow. Maybe cybergames is the thing to save the world, so people will only do virtual war, and then the real war never happen. Very true the deadliest war weapon is for peace, and very true that when every single life on this planet is eliminated. And then the real peace will arrive - just like Mars, no life, no water, nothing. Peace, is just like a joke. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Joe Street wrote: What's the big deal about Iran having nukes? That's a good question, and one worth considering carefully. I think the threat of Iran possessing nuclear weapons is serious for Israel, Iraq AND for the United States. As for what concerns Americans: 1. A nuclear Iran would force us to stop acting unilaterally in the Middle East, or at least, act with greater caution. 2. A nuclear Iran essentially eliminates the hegemony enjoyed by the US Navy in the littoral waters of the region. 3. A nuclear Iran increases the influence of that nation in a region, particularly among the Shia's in Iraq. 4. A nuclear Iran represents a credible threat against Israel, which may hasten or delay the onset of Dispensationalist tribulation. 5. A nuclear Iran represents a potential threat to our access of crude oil. 6. A nuclear Iran will underscore the righteous indignation of the NeoCons, who will gleefully claim: I told you so. 7. A nuclear Iran could not be prevented from proliferating the technology among other nations, as Pakistan and Korea have done. So, is there anything fundamentally wrong with any of this? What exactly are we afraid of? Why shouldn't they have them just like the others in the club? Who is to say No you are not mature enough to have these things ?? Certainly not the US which has actually used them on people. Do as I say, not as I do! LOL LOL As long as people contuinue to invent and build weapons of terror, the only chance for peace is when everybody has one and therefore has an equal voice at the negotiating table. Things may actually get very civilized when every small nation has the ability to destroy the world. I disagree. The words civilized and the concept of destroying the world should not be used in the same sentence! We are ONE people, and all of us share the fatal flaw that we are ruthlessly capable of acting in our own self interest. If we've used nuclear weapons in the conduct of warfare, I'm very confident we will do so again, especially if we feel we have no other option. People in Iran would likely feel the same way. Listening to the dragonspeak on Sunday morning talk shows yesterday confirms that we remain quite willing to put the entire world at risk in order to protect our interests, just as some of the preachers on Sunday mornings claim that by doing so, we would be punishing the evil for their iniquity. And on the other side, the jihadis who think that killing with car bombs serves God's purpose will likely view the detonation of a nuclear device in the same manner. Until we change the heart of the human being, we remain at risk. The future is ours to either build or destroy. So, let's roll up our sleeves and let our hands be strong! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11569.htm No need to panic over Iranian nukes United Nations sanctions won't work but there's still plenty of time for patient talks. By Gwynne Dyer 01/15/06 Hamilton Spectator -- -- When the International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed last Tuesday that Iran had broken the seals on its nuclear research facility at Natanz, many people reacted as if the very next step was the testing of an Iranian nuclear weapon. In the ensuing media panic, we were repeatedly reminded that Iran's radical new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, declared just months ago that Israel should be wiped off the map. How could such a lethally dangerous regime be allowed to proceed with its nuclear plans? But talk is cheap and not to be confused with actions or even intentions. Ahmadinejad was quoting directly from the founder of Iran's Islamic revolution, Ayatollah Khomeini. But neither during Khomeini's life nor in the 16 years since his death has Iran made any effort to wipe Israel off the map, because to do so could mean the virtual extermination of the Iranian people. Israel has held a monopoly on nuclear weapons in the Middle East since shortly after Ahmadinejad was born and now possesses enough of them to strike every Iranian and every Arab city of more than 100,000 people simultaneously. Ahmadinejad's comment was as foolish, but also ultimately as meaningless, as Ronald Reagan's famous remark into a microphone that he didn't know was open: My fellow Americans, I am pleased to tell you today that I have signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes. Nobody doubted that Reagan wanted the evil empire to be wiped from the face of the earth, but nobody seriously believed he intended to attack it. Russia had nuclear weapons too, and the U.S. would have been destroyed by its retaliation. Ahmadinejad was not joking about wanting Israel to vanish, but he was expressing a wish, not an intention, because Iran has been thoroughly deterred for all of his adult life by the knowledge of those hundreds of Israeli nuclear warheads. And Iran would still be deterred if it had a few nuclear weapons of its own, just as Reagan was deterred from striking the Soviet Union even though the United States had thousands of the things. So why would Iran want nuclear weapons at all? Mostly national pride, plus a desire to keep up with the neighbours. For Iran, nuclear weapons fall into the class of nice to have rather than life-or-death necessity. Israel cannot invade it, and even the United States would be reluctant to do so: It is a very big, mountainous and nationalistic country. So, the Iranians have chipped away at the task of building the scientific and technological basis for a nuclear-weapons program in a desultory way for several decades, without ever getting really serious about it. That is still the pattern. When the IAEA demanded that Iran explain certain irregularities in its nuclear power research program three years ago, the regime did not respond like North Korea, which immediately abrogated its membership in the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and went all out to build nuclear weapons as soon as possible. Instead, Iran voluntarily allowed the IAEA to put seals on its nuclear research facilities. Now it has removed those seals and plans to resume its research on nuclear power. This will also enhance its capacity to work on nuclear weapons eventually, but that can't be helped. The current American campaign to impose United Nations sanctions on Iran is doomed to fail, because it is not breaking the law. As a signatory of the NPT, it is fully entitled to develop nuclear power for peaceful purposes, including the technology for enriching uranium, even though that also takes it much of the way to a nuclear-weapons capability. In any case, it is practically unimaginable that all the veto-holding powers on the UN Security Council would agree to impose sanctions on a major oil-producer on the mere suspicion that it ultimately intends to break the law. And there is no need for such a dramatic confrontation. Iran has never been in a great rush to get nuclear weapons. Even if the CIA is unduly optimistic in assuming that Tehran is still 10 years away from a bomb, there is still plenty of time and room for patient negotiation. And no need for the current histrionics. Gwynne Dyer is a London-based independent journalist whose articles are published in 45 countries. Copyright 1991-2005, The Hamilton Spectator ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11572.htm More Lies about Iran By Mike Whitney 01/15/06 ICH -- -- There's been a lot of rubbish written about Iran's removing the seals from its uranium enrichment equipment. The fear-mongering western media have exploited the expression for all its worth. Even those who are normally skeptical of the Bush-propaganda machine are taken aback by this ominous-sounding phrase. What gibberish! How else does one make nuclear fuel for electric power plants if the fuel-producing mechanism is under lock and key? The fear-engendering description provided in the news would have the reader believe that diabolical Iranians are ripping off the seals with crowbars so they can quickly assemble their secret nuclear stockpile to bomb Tel Aviv. This is the worse type of demagoguery. The fuel that is produced from these uranium enrichment reactors DOES NOT PRODUCE WEAPONS-GRADE MATERIAL. That requires thousands of centrifuges which Iran does not have. At the same time, the nuclear watchdog agency, the IAEA, has on-site inspectors and cameras monitoring the entire process. Everything is under constant observation. Additionally, as nuclear weapons physicist, Gordon Prather states, After almost three years of go-anywhere see-anything interview-anyone inspections, IAEA inspectors have yet to find any indication that Iran has-or ever had-a nuclear weapons program. Get it??? No nukes! Not nownot ever! The public has been duped again by the intentionally misleading rhetoric and blatant lies of the MSM and the Bush administration to build the case for war with Iran. What could be more clear? The public does have a choice, however; either they can accept the credible statements from the Nobel Prize-winning Mohammed Elbaradei, chief of the IAEA, or the spurious allegations of the Liar-and-Chief. Which will it be? Removing the Seals? So, why were the seals put on the Iranian conversion equipment? Was Iran being punished for violations to the NPT (Non Proliferation Treaty) for secretly developing nuclear weapons? No, but this seems to be the conclusion of most people who haven't followed the issue closely. The seals were put in place because the Iranian negotiators foolishly fell into a trap that was set by the EU-3. (England, France and Germany) Iran agreed to confidence-building measures that would placate the United States, which included additional protocols that were not demanded under the terms of the treaty or required by the IAEA. As it turns out, the EU used the extra concessions to make it look like Iran was violating the NPT after negotiations had ended. The EU strategy was a clever ploy that worked like a charm, but that doesn't change the facts: IRAN HAS NOT VIOLATED ITS TREATY OBLIGATIONS, AND THE AGREEMENT WITH THE EU-3 WAS NEITHER BINDING NOR DESIGNED TO BE PERMANENT. Iran has never given up its inalienable right (language of the NPT) to enrich uranium for peaceful purposes. Was Iran foolish to trust the EU-3? (not suspecting that Washington was orchestrating a media-coup behind the scenes) Yes, they were but that is not a violation of the treaty; that's simply being deceived by some very brainy neocons. Iran has completely cooperated with the IAEA to ensure that it stays within the rules and does not develop highly-enriched, weapons grade material. Presently, Iran poses no threat to either its neighbors or the United States. The Bush administration does not accept the internationally-recognized treaty rights of Iran because it believes that all law flows from Washington; a fact that is tragically evident in its torturing of prisoners, spying on American citizens, and its vast destruction of Iraq. As long as the Bush-media, which serves as an annex to the political establish, can continue to hoodwink the American people with its alarmist misinformation; there's little chance that a war with Iran will be avoided. (For those who really want to understand the truth about Iran's nuclear programs and the many fictions created in the press, there's no better place to start than the articles of nuclear physicist, Dr. Gordon Prather on antiwar.com.) http://www.google.com/search?hl=enlr=q=Gordon+Prather+antiwar.com+IR ANbtnG=Search http://www.antiwar.com/prather/ Planting Evidence - by Gordon Prather ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
robert luis rabello wrote: Joe Street wrote: What's the big deal about Iran having nukes? That's a good question, and one worth considering carefully. I think the threat of Iran possessing nuclear weapons is serious for Israel, Iraq AND for the United States. As for what concerns Americans: Any more serious than Isreal's possession of same for everyone else in the area? 1. A nuclear Iran would force us to stop acting unilaterally in the Middle East, or at least, act with greater caution. 2. A nuclear Iran essentially eliminates the hegemony enjoyed by the US Navy in the littoral waters of the region. 3. A nuclear Iran increases the influence of that nation in a region, particularly among the Shia's in Iraq. 4. A nuclear Iran represents a credible threat against Israel, which may hasten or delay the onset of Dispensationalist "tribulation". 5. A nuclear Iran represents a potential threat to our access of crude oil. 6. A nuclear Iran will underscore the "righteous indignation" of the NeoCons, who will gleefully claim: "I told you so". 7. A nuclear Iran could not be prevented from proliferating the technology among other nations, as Pakistan and Korea have done. So, is there anything fundamentally wrong with any of this? What exactly are we afraid of? Why shouldn't they have them just like the others in the club? Who is to say "No you are not mature enough to have these things" ?? Certainly not the US which has actually used them on people. " Do as I say, not as I do!" LOL LOL As long as people contuinue to invent and build weapons of terror, the only chance for peace is when everybody has one and therefore has an equal voice at the negotiating table. Things may actually get very civilized when every small nation has the ability to destroy the world. I disagree. The words "civilized" and the concept of destroying the world should not be used in the same sentence! We are ONE people, and all of us share the fatal flaw that we are ruthlessly capable of acting in our own self interest. If we've used nuclear weapons in the conduct of warfare, I'm very confident we will do so again, especially if we feel we have no other option. People in Iran would likely feel the same way. People in Iran aren't any less savvy than you are and if anyone thinks so then I invite them to come and talk to some Iranian students studying engineering at the University of Waterloo which is arguably one of the world's notable engineering schools. Could it be that there are some vestiges of cutural bias in your mind to assume that the intelligent people of another society are more willing to end the world than our trusted leaders? Oh I suppose thier countries could be run by someone of less than stellar IQ if George Bush is any example. So how come Israel didn't launch in retaliation when Hussein was lobbing gas fitted skud missiles and the patriots were flying here and there to little effect (as is thier nature and all the other missile defence garbage in the US arsenal). Was it not in thier interest? Was the wind going the wrong way for the fallout? Or did they perhaps exercise restraint? And are you going to tell me that the Israelis are inherently more civilized than the Persians? And while we are on the subject of civility and destruction let's not forget who's nation is currently bombing the crap out of the cradle of civilization at the moment hmmm? Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Joe Street wrote: Any more serious than Isreal's possession of same for everyone else in the area? No, and that part of my point. What exactly ARE we afraid of? People in Iran aren't any less savvy than you are and if anyone thinks so then I invite them to come and talk to some Iranian students studying engineering at the University of Waterloo which is arguably one of the world's notable engineering schools. Could it be that there are some vestiges of cutural bias in your mind to assume that the intelligent people of another society are more willing to end the world than our trusted leaders? I think I'm not communicating clearly, Joe. It's clear to me that we have people on our side who are willing to walk down the path of the unthinkable, hence my remarks concerning dragonspeak on Sunday morning talk shows and the pulpits of anti-Christian churches all across North America. Given that we're all of the same species, it makes sense that there are people on the other side (whatever THAT is) who are like minded. I read the remarks of an Islamist spokesman in the Globe and Mail this morning, a man whose organization claimed credit for a car bomb that blew up among Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan. This man believed that killing Canadians represents the will of God. We have people on BOTH sides of the conflict who hold to this paradigm. That's the danger. Oh I suppose thier countries could be run by someone of less than stellar IQ if George Bush is any example. And it looks like Harper is going to get in up here as well. I was asking my sweetheart why she'd vote for a party represented by someone of his wit, but I didn't get a satisfactory answer . . . So how come Israel didn't launch in retaliation when Hussein was lobbing gas fitted skud missiles and the patriots were flying here and there to little effect (as is thier nature and all the other missile defence garbage in the US arsenal). Was it not in thier interest? Was the wind going the wrong way for the fallout? Or did they perhaps exercise restraint? At that time, what could they have done to Iraq that we weren't already doing? It didn't make any sense from a military or geo-strategic point of view for the Israelis to retaliate, and would have only served to fracture the Arab contribution to the liberation of Kuwait. (Which was a clever ploy on Mr. Hussein's part. I give him credit for being clever in some things.) In effect, Israel let US do the pummeling on their behalf, and Iraq received a far worse punishment during that conflict than Israel did by absorbing a few SCUD warheads. And are you going to tell me that the Israelis are inherently more civilized than the Persians? What nonsense! I'm trying to explain that we are ONE people, irrespective of our national identities. The Persians are no different than we are in their composition and intellect, only different in language, religion and culture. Those are minor things, really. And while we are on the subject of civility and destruction let's not forget who's nation is currently bombing the crap out of the cradle of civilization at the moment hmmm? I'm a Christian BEFORE I'm an American, and I don't advocate violence. But my nation is NOT Christian, so you can't expect its leadership to behave in a turn the other cheek and feed your enemies kind of way. You posted a question concerning why the United States would worry about a nuclear capable Iran, and I offered several points for consideration. Please do not confuse my understanding of the pathology with advocacy of it. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
robert luis rabello wrote: Joe Street wrote: And while we are on the subject of civility and destruction let's not forget who's nation is currently bombing the crap out of the cradle of civilization at the moment hmmm? I'm a Christian BEFORE I'm an American, and I don't advocate violence. But my nation is NOT Christian, so you can't expect its leadership to behave in a "turn the other cheek" and "feed your enemies" kind of way. You posted a question concerning why the United States would worry about a nuclear capable Iran, and I offered several points for consideration. Please do not confuse my understanding of the pathology with advocacy of it. robert luis rabello Ok Guilty. Sorry about that. Yes these are reasons your nation (former nation?) is worried. I would still comment that one doesn't have to be a Christian to have the good balanced outlook that you do. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Joe Street wrote: Ok Guilty. Sorry about that. Yes these are reasons your nation (former nation?) is worried. You're forgiven. I really like Canada, but I'm still an American. I can't imagine NOT being an American. Not all of us ascribe to the blind jingoism we're fed in the media and school systems. I would still comment that one doesn't have to be a Christian to have the good balanced outlook that you do. Of course not. There are many people in this forum (indeed, in the world at large) who do not ascribe to my faith, yet understand that we must look beyond personal gratification in order for us to sustain our existence as a species. Perhaps you're among them. On the other hand, there are many who CLAIM to be Christians who, by virtue of their attitudes and actions, deny the foundational teachings of Jesus Christ. They presume to act on God's behalf in terms of judgment and policy. THOSE people frighten me! Now, as this relates to nuclear war and Iran, the article that Keith posted earlier today by Mike Whitney might be dismissed as pacifist nonsense by someone who advocates violence as a means of problem solving. The concept that WE might somehow be at fault, that WE might be either misunderstanding the evidence, or deliberately manipulating it for a political end suggests nefarious intent on behalf of leaders who have robed themselves in white, claiming to save the world from itself. I have heard this from NeoCons who assume that any agitation for nonviolence, negotiation and peace represents some kind of pandering to evil, like Neville Chamberlin's famous peace in our time document that carried an aggressive, German chancellor's rather worthless signature. I hear a lot of harking back to that time, as if we're standing on the sidelines, watching some other nation try to take over the world. We don't want to hear that the enemy is staring at us whenever we look into the mirror, but the scriptures say that the devil masquerades as an angel of light. It's a pretty thin disguise, as far as I'm concerned. Today Americans celebrate the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Like him, I have a dream. I dream of a peaceable kingdom. Yet, when I hear this incessant dragon talk advocating warfare as an instrument of foreign policy, I also dream of fire, mushroom clouds and darkness. I far prefer the good dream to the nightmare. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Ruthlessly snipped from Keith's post: The fear-engendering description provided in the news would have the reader believe that diabolical Iranians are ripping off the seals with crowbars so they can quickly assemble their secret nuclear stockpile to bomb Tel Aviv. This is the worse type of demagoguery. So it would seem that what is required is for the mainstream media to give equal coverage to the opposite side of the story. So why is the mainstream media not doing so? (rhetorical question obviously) And more to the point why isn't everyone asking this question? I wonder how rich I would have to be to make it happen? New world superpower? Ok her's a goofy idea; start a huge internet group to buy lottery tickets in the biggest lotteries and then use the winnings to spread the (gasp) truth on the TV. Can you imagine? LOL Actually - wait a minutewe could actually do this! And why not? Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
robert luis rabello wrote: Joe Street wrote: Any more serious than Isreal's possession of same for everyone else in the area? Just this;The government of Israel does not espouse the total eradication of the Iranian people.While on the other hand Iran would probably use it's nukes to further the "cause" of Islam,mainly the destruction of the state of Israel. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
jtcava wrote: Just this;The government of Israel does not espouse the total eradication of the Iranian people. If their treatment of the Palestinians is any indication, I'm not confident that you are correct. What a nation SAYS and what it actually DOES are two different things. While on the other hand Iran would probably use it's nukes to further the cause of Islam,mainly the destruction of the state of Israel. What evidence can you offer to support this contention? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
"I really like Canada, but I'm still an American. I can't imagine NOT being an American."Some of us feel that it isour obligation as American citizens to express dissent and do everything we can to rectify the horrible direction our country's government has chosen. Others defendthosechoices with a convoluted, propaganda driven brand of patriotismandare unaware ofwhat they are defending, making the world a more dangerous place.Thomas Jefferson not only helped with the building of a nation but, also expected the government to experience periods where it forgets it's most important task. So, if you are a US citizen and someone tells you that your "un-American" forbeing critical of your government, here are some important messages from our founding fathers and other noteworthy Americans: Dissent is the highest form of papatriotismH1 -Thomas Jefferson"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from the government.- Thomas Paine "A President is impeachable if he attempts to subvert the Constitution". -- President James Madison "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither."- Ben Franklin "If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."- Samuel Adams "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."- Edmund Burke "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it."- President Abraham Lincoln http://en.thinkexist.com/quotation/Dissent_is_the_highest_form_of/289567.htmlhttp://thomasmc.com/dissent.htm Mike robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe Street wrote: Ok Guilty. Sorry about that. Yes these are reasons your nation (former nation?) is worried.You're forgiven. I really like Canada, but I'm still an American. I can't imagine NOT being an American. Not all of us ascribe to the blind jingoism we're fed in the media and school systems. I would still comment that one doesn't have to be a Christian to have the good balanced outlook that you do.Of course not. There are many people in this forum (indeed, in the world at large) who do not ascribe to my faith, yet understand that we must look beyond personal gratification in order for us to sustain our existence as a species. Perhaps you're among them. On the other hand, there are many who CLAIM to be Christians who, by virtue of their attitudes and actions, deny the foundational teachings of Jesus Christ. They presume to act on God's behalf in terms of judgment and policy. THOSE people frighten me!Now, as this relates to nuclear war and Iran, the article that Keith posted earlier today by Mike Whitney might be dismissed as pacifist nonsense by someone who advocates violence as a means of problem solving. The concept that WE might somehow be at fault, that WE might be either misunderstanding the evidence, or deliberately manipulating it for a political end suggests nefarious intent on behalf of leaders who have robed themselves in white, claiming to "save the world" from itself. I have heard this from NeoCons who assume that any agitation for nonviolence, negotiation and peace represents some kind of pandering to evil, like Neville Chamberlin's famous "peace in our time" document that carried an aggressive, German chancellor's rather worthless signature. I hear a lot of harking back to that time, as if we're standing on the sidelines, watching some other nation try to take over the world.We don't want to hear that the enemy is staring at us whenever we look into the mirror, but the scriptures say that the devil masquerades as "an angel of light". It's a pretty thin disguise, as far as I'm concerned.Today Americans celebrate the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Like him, I have a dream. I dream of a peaceable kingdom. Yet, when I hear this incessant dragon talk advocating warfare as an instrument of foreign policy, I also dream of fire, mushroom clouds and darkness. I far prefer the good dream to the nightmare.robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.ca___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran Thinking about this is the only time I wish I were an old man. I just wish that if there is ever a nuclear war, I will have a clear view to see the beautiful firework show of giant fireball and mushroom before the heat wave cooked me into radioactive dust. I thought so too, a ringside seat's one of the few things worth wishing for. But I ended up hoping for a direct hit instead, I don't want to see a mushroom cloud, it'd only make me cry. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
I do recall the movie The Day After. Prior to that I hadn't thought of any oh crap reaction of people witness to the launch of ICBMs, understanding, that incoming will be soon on their way. I have no doubt, in the event of nuclear war, the grinding collapse of society may be inevitable. I feel that we should be concerned about the less than nuclear events that could start that grinding collapse. Where the attack on the WTC took place at a time, when the political party in power in the USA was one that has little regard for basic rights, the slow grind has begun, IMO. The upside is that it can be stopped if there is the will. Doug - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran Without doubt, the scariest nuclear war scenario was the movie The Day After. There was very little of the explosive destruction kinds of stuff. Rather it portrayed the inevitable grinding collapse of society. Truly frightening. http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/D/htmlD/dayafterth/dayafter.htm ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
--- Rexis Tree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, actually we dont have to worry about aftermath of a nuclear war, because we wont be there to worry about if there is a nuclear war happened. I just wish that if there is ever a nuclear war, I will have a clear view to see the beautiful firework show of giant fireball and mushroom before the heat wave cooked me into radioactive dust. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Don't forget the only country that used the nuclear bomb on human beings is USA. She is prepared to use the nuclear bomb om Iran to protect on behalf of Isreal.(Isreal retains 100 nuclear bombs) ___ NEW Yahoo! Cars - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online! http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Well, actually we dont have to worry about aftermath of a nuclear war, because we wont be there to worry about if there is a nuclear war happened. I hear what you're saying, and I can't help agreeing, especially since you only say it's the aftermath we don't have to worry about. But really we have to think beyond ourselves and our own lifetimes in what we do and what we allow to happen, or we tend to end up having completely insane discussions like this one. Actually I think most of us do think beyond ourselves most of the time, or enough of the time anyway, we always have done, most cultures probably have some tradition like the Kenyans saying it's not their world they only borrowed it from their children. Governments and big business are another matter though. I just wish that if there is ever a nuclear war, I will have a clear view to see the beautiful firework show of giant fireball and mushroom before the heat wave cooked me into radioactive dust. I thought so too, a ringside seat's one of the few things worth wishing for. But I ended up hoping for a direct hit instead, I don't want to see a mushroom cloud, it'd only make me cry. But, well, you can see the reasoning - gotta have another war, it's the only way to keep the peace, sometimes the only way to save people is to nuke them. Right. Eg: http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/000CACD0.htm Hiroshima: the 'White Man's Bomb' revisited Essay by Mick Hume 2 August 2005 Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Without doubt, the scariest nuclear war scenario was the movie The Day After. There was very little of the explosive destruction kinds of stuff. Rather it portrayed the inevitable grinding collapse of society. Truly frightening. http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/D/htmlD/dayafterth/dayafter.htm Keith Addison wrote: Well, actually we dont have to worry about aftermath of a nuclear war, because we wont be there to worry about if there is a nuclear war happened. I hear what you're saying, and I can't help agreeing, especially since you only say it's the aftermath we don't have to worry about. But really we have to think beyond ourselves and our own lifetimes in what we do and what we allow to happen, or we tend to end up having completely insane discussions like this one. Actually I think most of us do think beyond ourselves most of the time, or enough of the time anyway, we always have done, most cultures probably have some tradition like the Kenyans saying it's not their world they only borrowed it from their children. Governments and big business are another matter though. I just wish that if there is ever a nuclear war, I will have a clear view to see the beautiful firework show of giant fireball and mushroom before the heat wave cooked me into radioactive dust. I thought so too, a ringside seat's one of the few things worth wishing for. But I ended up hoping for a direct hit instead, I don't want to see a mushroom cloud, it'd only make me cry. But, well, you can see the reasoning - gotta have another war, it's the only way to keep the peace, sometimes the only way to save people is to nuke them. Right. Eg: http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/000CACD0.htm Hiroshima: the 'White Man's Bomb' revisited Essay by Mick Hume 2 August 2005 Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
So many wargames people playing and feel fun, superweapon nuke shoot like no tomorrow. Maybe cybergames is the thing to save the world, so people will only do virtual war, and then the real war never happen.Very true the deadliest war weapon is for peace, and very true that when every single life on this planet is eliminated. And then the real peace will arrive - just like Mars, no life, no water, nothing. Peace, is just like a joke. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Well, actually we dont have to worry about aftermath of a nuclear war, because we wont be there to worry about if there is a nuclear war happened.I just wish that if there is ever a nuclear war, I will have a clear view to see the beautiful firework show of giant fireball and mushroom before the heat wave cooked me into radioactive dust. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Anyone who would consider nuclear war, even limitted nuclear war, as an option of first resort is, beyond any doubt, certifiably crazy. The ramifications to humanity are beyond comprehension and any initiator should be straight jacketed and sedated before given opportunity to do so. Bush's I don't give a shit attitude is going to destroy what little resemblance of humanity is left in this world. Todd Swearingen http://snipurl.com/lcza Nuclear War against Iran by Michel Chossudovsky January 3, 2006 GlobalResearch.ca The launching of an outright war using nuclear warheads against Iran is now in the final planning stages. Coalition partners, which include the US, Israel and Turkey are in an advanced stage of readiness. Various military exercises have been conducted, starting in early 2005. In turn, the Iranian Armed Forces have also conducted large scale military maneuvers in the Persian Gulf in December in anticipation of a US sponsored attack. Since early 2005, there has been intense shuttle diplomacy between Washington, Tel Aviv, Ankara and NATO headquarters in Brussels. In recent developments, CIA Director Porter Goss on a mission to Ankara, requested Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to provide political and logistic support for air strikes against Iranian nuclear and military targets. Goss reportedly asked for special cooperation from Turkish intelligence to help prepare and monitor the operation. (DDP, 30 December 2005). In turn, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has given the green light to the Israeli Armed Forces to launch the attacks by the end of March: All top Israeli officials have pronounced the end of March, 2006, as the deadline for launching a military assault on Iran The end of March date also coincides with the IAEA report to the UN on Iran's nuclear energy program. Israeli policymakers believe that their threats may influence the report, or at least force the kind of ambiguities, which can be exploited by its overseas supporters to promote Security Council sanctions or justify Israeli military action. (James Petras, Israel's War Deadline: Iran in the Crosshairs, Global Research, December 2005) The US sponsored military plan has been endorsed by NATO, although it is unclear, at this stage, as to the nature of NATO's involvement in the planned aerial attacks. Shock and Awe The various components of the military operation are firmly under US Command, coordinated by the Pentagon and US Strategic Command Headquarters (USSTRATCOM) at the Offutt Air Force base in Nebraska. The actions announced by Israel would be carried out in close coordination with the Pentagon. The command structure of the operation is centralized and ultimately Washington will decide when to launch the military operation. US military sources have confirmed that an aerial attack on Iran would involve a large scale deployment comparable to the US shock and awe bombing raids on Iraq in March 2003: American air strikes on Iran would vastly exceed the scope of the 1981 Israeli attack on the Osiraq nuclear center in Iraq, and would more resemble the opening days of the 2003 air campaign against Iraq. Using the full force of operational B-2 stealth bombers, staging from Diego Garcia or flying direct from the United States, possibly supplemented by F-117 stealth fighters staging from al Udeid in Qatar or some other location in theater, the two-dozen suspect nuclear sites would be targeted. Military planners could tailor their target list to reflect the preferences of the Administration by having limited air strikes that would target only the most crucial facilities ... or the United States could opt for a far more comprehensive set of strikes against a comprehensive range of WMD related targets, as well as conventional and unconventional forces that might be used to counterattack against US forces in Iraq (See Globalsecurity.org at http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iran-strikes.htm In November, US Strategic Command conducted a major exercise of a global strike plan entitled Global Lightening. The latter involved a simulated attack using both conventional and nuclear weapons against a fictitious enemy. Following the Global Lightening exercise, US Strategic Command declared an advanced state of readiness (See our analysis below) While Asian press reports stated that the fictitious enemy in the Global Lightening exercise was North Korea, the timing of the exercises, suggests that they were conducted in anticipation of a planned attack on Iran. Consensus for Nuclear War No dissenting political voices have emerged from within the European Union. There are ongoing consultations between Washington, Paris and Berlin. Contrary to the invasion of Iraq, which was opposed at the diplomatic level by France and Germany, Washington has been building a consensus both within the Atlantic Alliance and the UN Security Council.
[Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
http://snipurl.com/lcza Nuclear War against Iran by Michel Chossudovsky January 3, 2006 GlobalResearch.ca The launching of an outright war using nuclear warheads against Iran is now in the final planning stages. Coalition partners, which include the US, Israel and Turkey are in an advanced stage of readiness. Various military exercises have been conducted, starting in early 2005. In turn, the Iranian Armed Forces have also conducted large scale military maneuvers in the Persian Gulf in December in anticipation of a US sponsored attack. Since early 2005, there has been intense shuttle diplomacy between Washington, Tel Aviv, Ankara and NATO headquarters in Brussels. In recent developments, CIA Director Porter Goss on a mission to Ankara, requested Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to provide political and logistic support for air strikes against Iranian nuclear and military targets. Goss reportedly asked for special cooperation from Turkish intelligence to help prepare and monitor the operation. (DDP, 30 December 2005). In turn, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has given the green light to the Israeli Armed Forces to launch the attacks by the end of March: All top Israeli officials have pronounced the end of March, 2006, as the deadline for launching a military assault on Iran The end of March date also coincides with the IAEA report to the UN on Iran's nuclear energy program. Israeli policymakers believe that their threats may influence the report, or at least force the kind of ambiguities, which can be exploited by its overseas supporters to promote Security Council sanctions or justify Israeli military action. (James Petras, Israel's War Deadline: Iran in the Crosshairs, Global Research, December 2005) The US sponsored military plan has been endorsed by NATO, although it is unclear, at this stage, as to the nature of NATO's involvement in the planned aerial attacks. Shock and Awe The various components of the military operation are firmly under US Command, coordinated by the Pentagon and US Strategic Command Headquarters (USSTRATCOM) at the Offutt Air Force base in Nebraska. The actions announced by Israel would be carried out in close coordination with the Pentagon. The command structure of the operation is centralized and ultimately Washington will decide when to launch the military operation. US military sources have confirmed that an aerial attack on Iran would involve a large scale deployment comparable to the US shock and awe bombing raids on Iraq in March 2003: American air strikes on Iran would vastly exceed the scope of the 1981 Israeli attack on the Osiraq nuclear center in Iraq, and would more resemble the opening days of the 2003 air campaign against Iraq. Using the full force of operational B-2 stealth bombers, staging from Diego Garcia or flying direct from the United States, possibly supplemented by F-117 stealth fighters staging from al Udeid in Qatar or some other location in theater, the two-dozen suspect nuclear sites would be targeted. Military planners could tailor their target list to reflect the preferences of the Administration by having limited air strikes that would target only the most crucial facilities ... or the United States could opt for a far more comprehensive set of strikes against a comprehensive range of WMD related targets, as well as conventional and unconventional forces that might be used to counterattack against US forces in Iraq (See Globalsecurity.org at http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iran-strikes.htm In November, US Strategic Command conducted a major exercise of a global strike plan entitled Global Lightening. The latter involved a simulated attack using both conventional and nuclear weapons against a fictitious enemy. Following the Global Lightening exercise, US Strategic Command declared an advanced state of readiness (See our analysis below) While Asian press reports stated that the fictitious enemy in the Global Lightening exercise was North Korea, the timing of the exercises, suggests that they were conducted in anticipation of a planned attack on Iran. Consensus for Nuclear War No dissenting political voices have emerged from within the European Union. There are ongoing consultations between Washington, Paris and Berlin. Contrary to the invasion of Iraq, which was opposed at the diplomatic level by France and Germany, Washington has been building a consensus both within the Atlantic Alliance and the UN Security Council. This consensus pertains to the conduct of a nuclear war, which could potentially affect a large part of the Middle East Central Asian region. Moreover, a number of frontline Arab states are now tacit partners in the US/ Israeli military project. A year ago in November 2004, Israel's top military brass met at NATO headqaurters in Brtussels with their counterparts from six members of the Mediterranean basin
