Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Thanks Jan. I have opted NOT to use it in the hydronic system and decided instead to build a heat exchanger into the next phase of the processor instead. Thank you for the info. Seth From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 1:32:19 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hello Seth. Biodiesel is usually processed at as low temperature as possible, 60oC is almost ideal. Any temperature above that is threateing. The hotter the faster the crack. - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions At what temp does Bio-Diesel start to crack? Perhaps it is not a great idea to use it in a hydronic system. If the Bio-diesel is only circulated for 24 hrs before being replaced by the next batch, am I still in danger of losing quality? Dredneck From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 11:27:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Biodiesel is not as chemically stable as gas oil, or water for heating purposes. High temperatures may cause the biodiesel to crack and form solids, so filtering is necessary to keep the circulation running. And the biodiesel will in each case loose quality in connection to heating. The higher degree of unsaturation, the greater the quality loss.But the process can be buffered by the use of anti-oxidants, preferably the BHT based. - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Thanks for the tips Keith. the Journey to Forever website has revolutionized my family's life! Everything I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to your site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community is now addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies! Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy in our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is finished. Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my hydronic heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I installed an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to hook it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated through the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would be siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be dried to take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there any problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees? Seth Dredneck Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. You might consider this: http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. And the methanol test? I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion Best Keith Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/c2b2c20e
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Hello Seth. Using heat exchangers is most of the time a good idea. Just keep in mind that they internally have to be acid resistant , at least down to pH 4, which corresponds to the acid constant of the free fatty acids, which you in any case will have. You are welcome and good luck. Jan W - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 2:08 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Thanks Jan. I have opted NOT to use it in the hydronic system and decided instead to build a heat exchanger into the next phase of the processor instead. Thank you for the info. Seth From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 1:32:19 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hello Seth. Biodiesel is usually processed at as low temperature as possible, 60oC is almost ideal. Any temperature above that is threateing. The hotter the faster the crack. - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions At what temp does Bio-Diesel start to crack? Perhaps it is not a great idea to use it in a hydronic system. If the Bio-diesel is only circulated for 24 hrs before being replaced by the next batch, am I still in danger of losing quality? Dredneck From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 11:27:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Biodiesel is not as chemically stable as gas oil, or water for heating purposes. High temperatures may cause the biodiesel to crack and form solids, so filtering is necessary to keep the circulation running. And the biodiesel will in each case loose quality in connection to heating. The higher degree of unsaturation, the greater the quality loss.But the process can be buffered by the use of anti-oxidants, preferably the BHT based. - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Thanks for the tips Keith. the Journey to Forever website has revolutionized my family's life! Everything I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to your site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community is now addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies! Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy in our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is finished. Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my hydronic heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I installed an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to hook it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated through the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would be siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be dried to take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there any problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees? Seth Dredneck Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. You might consider this: http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. And the methanol test? I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion Best Keith Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
To be honest , I haven't used the methanol test on any batches for a long time. Usually if it passes the wash test I have proceeded without difficulties. I will proceed with the methanol test. Thanks again Dredneck From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 11:19:10 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions You are welcome. But have you analyzed the batch with the methanol test as initiated by undersigned ? That will give you useful information on the state of the batch. With best regards Jan W - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Thank you for the info Jan. As far as I know the excess methanol has already been evaporated as the batch was heated (probably excessively) outside the shop in a barrel over a three burner stove! Glycerin layer has also been removed. I'm thinking this batch did not completely react.Perhaps incorrect titration. Thanks very much for the tip on using weakly acidified water. Seth From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:13:13 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hello Seth. I think that the emulsion problem is caused by another issue that just the temperature itself. Any BD emulsion will break with the help of weakly acified water, preferably by sulphuric acid. Salty water (NaCl) is also an option. This will work assuming that you can have 20oC and that you have a reasonably good reaction of the BD. Have you evaporated the excess methanol ? With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:21 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110217/b2cc2b97/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/8a4fc30c/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
At what temp does Bio-Diesel start to crack? Perhaps it is not a great idea to use it in a hydronic system. If the Bio-diesel is only circulated for 24 hrs before being replaced by the next batch, am I still in danger of losing quality? Dredneck From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 11:27:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Biodiesel is not as chemically stable as gas oil, or water for heating purposes. High temperatures may cause the biodiesel to crack and form solids, so filtering is necessary to keep the circulation running. And the biodiesel will in each case loose quality in connection to heating. The higher degree of unsaturation, the greater the quality loss.But the process can be buffered by the use of anti-oxidants, preferably the BHT based. - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Thanks for the tips Keith. the Journey to Forever website has revolutionized my family's life! Everything I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to your site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community is now addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies! Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy in our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is finished. Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my hydronic heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I installed an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to hook it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated through the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would be siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be dried to take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there any problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees? Seth Dredneck Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. You might consider this: http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. And the methanol test? I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion Best Keith Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/c2b2c20e/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Hi Joe. Seems to be the concensus. What about spilling esters on a concrete slab? I have had a fairly decent sized spill of finished bio-diesel lately(15 litres) onto the concrete in the shop. Should I be concerned? I love the heat exchanger idea! Thanks for the info. Seth From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 11:27:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi Seth; You are not the first person to consider using the esters as a fluid in a hydrionic system. However the esters can do unexpected things to plastic fittings or elements of plastic assemblies and I think you would be well advised to instead use a more conventional hydrionic system and put a coil of tubing inside your reactor vessel as a heat exchanger. That way you have the option of using latent heat from your reactor to heat your floor, but also you can heat the reactor to some degree with heat from another source such as thermal solar tubes etc. I saw a setup like that and it works well. Eventually you WILL have a leak and it is much preferable to be cleaning up water/glycol than esters believe me. If esters leak inside a slab..??? Joe On 22/02/2011 2:16 PM, Seth Macdonald wrote: Thanks for the tips Keith. the Journey to Forever website has revolutionized my family's life! Everything I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to your site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community is now addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies! Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy in our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is finished. Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my hydronic heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I installed an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to hook it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated through the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would be siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be dried to take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there any problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees? Seth Dredneck Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: Keith Addison[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. You might consider this: http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. And the methanol test? I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion Best Keith Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/c2b2c20e/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Hello Seth. Biodiesel is usually processed at as low temperature as possible, 60oC is almost ideal. Any temperature above that is threateing. The hotter the faster the crack. - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions At what temp does Bio-Diesel start to crack? Perhaps it is not a great idea to use it in a hydronic system. If the Bio-diesel is only circulated for 24 hrs before being replaced by the next batch, am I still in danger of losing quality? Dredneck From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 11:27:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Biodiesel is not as chemically stable as gas oil, or water for heating purposes. High temperatures may cause the biodiesel to crack and form solids, so filtering is necessary to keep the circulation running. And the biodiesel will in each case loose quality in connection to heating. The higher degree of unsaturation, the greater the quality loss.But the process can be buffered by the use of anti-oxidants, preferably the BHT based. - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Thanks for the tips Keith. the Journey to Forever website has revolutionized my family's life! Everything I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to your site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community is now addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies! Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy in our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is finished. Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my hydronic heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I installed an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to hook it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated through the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would be siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be dried to take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there any problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees? Seth Dredneck Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. You might consider this: http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. And the methanol test? I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion Best Keith Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/c2b2c20e/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Hi Seth; You are not the first person to consider using the esters as a fluid in a hydrionic system. However the esters can do unexpected things to plastic fittings or elements of plastic assemblies and I think you would be well advised to instead use a more conventional hydrionic system and put a coil of tubing inside your reactor vessel as a heat exchanger. That way you have the option of using latent heat from your reactor to heat your floor, but also you can heat the reactor to some degree with heat from another source such as thermal solar tubes etc. I saw a setup like that and it works well. Eventually you WILL have a leak and it is much preferable to be cleaning up water/glycol than esters believe me. If esters leak inside a slab..??? Joe On 22/02/2011 2:16 PM, Seth Macdonald wrote: Thanks for the tips Keith. the Journey to Forever website has revolutionized my family's life! Everything I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to your site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community is now addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies! Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy in our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is finished. Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my hydronic heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I installed an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to hook it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated through the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would be siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be dried to take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there any problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees? Seth Dredneck Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: Keith Addison[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. You might consider this: http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. And the methanol test? I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion Best Keith Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/c2b2c20e/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Thank you for the info Jan. As far as I know the excess methanol has already been evaporated as the batch was heated (probably excessively) outside the shop in a barrel over a three burner stove! Glycerin layer has also been removed. I'm thinking this batch did not completely react.Perhaps incorrect titration. Thanks very much for the tip on using weakly acidified water. Seth From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:13:13 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hello Seth. I think that the emulsion problem is caused by another issue that just the temperature itself. Any BD emulsion will break with the help of weakly acified water, preferably by sulphuric acid. Salty water (NaCl) is also an option. This will work assuming that you can have 20oC and that you have a reasonably good reaction of the BD. Have you evaporated the excess methanol ? With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:21 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110217/b2cc2b97/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/8a4fc30c/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Thanks for the tips Keith. the Journey to Forever website has revolutionized my family's life! Everything I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to your site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community is now addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies! Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy in our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is finished. Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my hydronic heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I installed an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to hook it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated through the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would be siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be dried to take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there any problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees? Seth Dredneck Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. You might consider this: http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. And the methanol test? I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion Best Keith Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/c2b2c20e/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
You are welcome. But have you analyzed the batch with the methanol test as initiated by undersigned ? That will give you useful information on the state of the batch. With best regards Jan W - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Thank you for the info Jan. As far as I know the excess methanol has already been evaporated as the batch was heated (probably excessively) outside the shop in a barrel over a three burner stove! Glycerin layer has also been removed. I'm thinking this batch did not completely react.Perhaps incorrect titration. Thanks very much for the tip on using weakly acidified water. Seth From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:13:13 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hello Seth. I think that the emulsion problem is caused by another issue that just the temperature itself. Any BD emulsion will break with the help of weakly acified water, preferably by sulphuric acid. Salty water (NaCl) is also an option. This will work assuming that you can have 20oC and that you have a reasonably good reaction of the BD. Have you evaporated the excess methanol ? With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:21 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110217/b2cc2b97/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/8a4fc30c/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Biodiesel is not as chemically stable as gas oil, or water for heating purposes. High temperatures may cause the biodiesel to crack and form solids, so filtering is necessary to keep the circulation running. And the biodiesel will in each case loose quality in connection to heating. The higher degree of unsaturation, the greater the quality loss.But the process can be buffered by the use of anti-oxidants, preferably the BHT based. - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Thanks for the tips Keith. the Journey to Forever website has revolutionized my family's life! Everything I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to your site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community is now addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies! Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy in our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is finished. Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my hydronic heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I installed an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to hook it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated through the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would be siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be dried to take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there any problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees? Seth Dredneck Macdonald Dunster BC CANADA From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. You might consider this: http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. And the methanol test? I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion Best Keith Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110222/c2b2c20e/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110217/b2cc2b97/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Hello Seth. I think that the emulsion problem is caused by another issue that just the temperature itself. Any BD emulsion will break with the help of weakly acified water, preferably by sulphuric acid. Salty water (NaCl) is also an option. This will work assuming that you can have 20oC and that you have a reasonably good reaction of the BD. Have you evaporated the excess methanol ? With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Seth Macdonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:21 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110217/b2cc2b97/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
Hi all, Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming spring. This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of problems. You might consider this: http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large batch of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should never have happened in the first place. That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass the wash test. And the methanol test? I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it hot enough to make any difference. Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion Best Keith Seth The Dredneck Macdonald Robson Valley Bio-fuels Dunster BC CANADA V0J 1J0 PH: 250-968-4411 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
