[Biofuel] soap titration
I don't think I've seen anything on this aspect, and as I'm kind of new to make BD, I don' t know if knowing how much soap you're producing would help correct the problem or not, but the place I get my isopropanol from has a link now mentioning soap titration, so I thought I'd share. http://www.sciencecompany.com/biodiesel/index.htm -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080620/616b0951/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap formation
On Dec 28, 2006, at 7:31 PM, Logan Vilas wrote: If you have a complete reaction to biodiesel will soap form from the biodiesel? I mean if you put lye and water into it would it form soap or would it be incapable of forming soap? Hmmm...no firsthand experience of that happening, but I think lye should be able to break off the methanol from the biodiesel just as it can break off the glycerol from a triglyceride in normal soap production. -K___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap formation
This is, I believe, precisely why you do not want more lye than is required and why measurement of lye in proportion is fundamental. I find it is better to undershoot a reaction and add more to complete than end up with too much to start. Jim From: Logan Vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Soap formation Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 21:31:26 -0600 If you have a complete reaction to biodiesel will soap form from the biodiesel? I mean if you put lye and water into it would it form soap or would it be incapable of forming soap? Logan vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Soap formation
Hi guys, I just reprocessed a batch using 10% methanol and 5.79g of KOH per litre. After settling for 15 hrs, it turned out well, no more glycerine drops out, and the bididiesel was crystal clear.. So i took about 100ml of BD and added 100ml of fresh water for test wash. I shook it violently for 10 secs. Thick emulsion was formed with no sign of separation (even after waited for almost 2 hrs). It was worse than before it was reprocessed (before i got BD and emulsion.. well, at least there was separation). Now what i have is total emulsion.. Anyone care to advise? Thanks, Joe N. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Soap formation
If you have a complete reaction to biodiesel will soap form from the biodiesel? I mean if you put lye and water into it would it form soap or would it be incapable of forming soap? Logan vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] soap or mono- and diglycerides
Hi Rafal, Do not overcomplicate yourself. 1. Make sure that your oil is dry. 2. Make sure that your methanol dry, and lye fresh 3. Reaction parameters - time, temperature, agitation are OK. 4. Settlig time 24 Hours + 5 Wash test from the upper layer of reaction wessel. - If failed try +1gr lye. For example 5.5gr / liter wash test faild, try 6.5 then 7.5 ... (if more then 10gr, then something else is really bad) DO more test batches at a time with 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 gr lye and see wash test. A washtest is only passed when separating within minutes no matter how long and hard you shake it. and the best advice, read JTF website :))) If you are unconfy with titration try base - base 2 stage. (not for testbatch) But You HAVE TO LEARN TITRATION. Let me know how it goes, Andrew On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 05:05:59PM -0700, Ken Provost wrote: On Sep 9, 2006, at 4:31 PM, Rafal Szczesniak wrote: I'm talking about the result I get from the washing test. I know the soap formation is only possible in presence of water dissolving the lye. That's probably why aggresive mixing in the test could produce the soap in my case. Except by the time you're washing, the NaOH will be so dilute it shouldn't produce any additional soap. I think all your glycerides and all your soap will be present already -- if you want to know the relative proportions, an FFA assay or gas chromatogram are possible ways. One of the reasons I raised this question is that I'd like to know for sure, after my product fails the wash test, whether I should increase the amount of lye or decrease it. -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] soap or mono- and diglicerides
Try vacuum dewatering the feedstock before processing and be good and sure about having anhydrous chemicals and you won't have soap. If you are then still getting emulsions, your process is not going far enough. Joe Rafal Szczesniak wrote: Hi all, Could you tell me how can I tell the difference between emulsion caused by unfinished process (glicerides left in the product) and caused by soap formation (too much lye) ? I have a feeling I misinterpret the result I get from the wash test... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] soap or mono- and diglycerides
On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 07:14:40AM +0200, Tonom?r Andr?s wrote: Hi Rafal, Do not overcomplicate yourself. 1. Make sure that your oil is dry. 2. Make sure that your methanol dry, and lye fresh 3. Reaction parameters - time, temperature, agitation are OK. 4. Settlig time 24 Hours + 5 Wash test from the upper layer of reaction wessel. - If failed try +1gr lye. For example 5.5gr / liter wash test faild, try 6.5 then 7.5 ... (if more then 10gr, then something else is really bad) DO more test batches at a time with 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 gr lye and see wash test. I guess I need to do that ie. process small samples with increasing amount of lye. Or do the poor man's titration. Or both... A washtest is only passed when separating within minutes no matter how long and hard you shake it. It did - much quicker than my previous tests - but there's still about 1 centimeter (in 0.5 litre PET bottle) of white foam layer between water and biodiesel. and the best advice, read JTF website :))) I have, and I'm still reading it back again after each test I make :) If you are unconfy with titration try base - base 2 stage. (not for testbatch) But You HAVE TO LEARN TITRATION. Titration is not a problem. My last two batches had increased lye amount after I titrated the oil. I surely still need a bit of practice and feel of it, but I've titrated about ten samples so far, and I'm not scared of it. Let me know how it goes, I can assure you I will let everybody know once I succeed :) I'm just surprised that it looks I need much more lye. I didn't expect, when titrating with phenolophtalein, the colour should be so intensive. For me it was clear enough last time (1.35g KOH more / 1l). Thanks for word of advice. -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] soap or mono- and diglicerides
On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 10:11:35AM -0400, Joe Street wrote: Try vacuum dewatering the feedstock before processing and be good and sure about having anhydrous chemicals and you won't have soap. If you are then still getting emulsions, your process is not going far enough. Yes, it looks like. Processing time is 2h, temperature in range of 60-64 degC, agitation using medium-size aquarium water pump - I think it's enough for 5l test container. Maybe I should redesign the container's inlet and outlet (both in the same lid - two plastic pipes of different length). -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] soap or mono- and diglicerides
If possible connect the pump to an external oil source and time how long it takes to fill the 5 litre process container when lifting from the same height as it usually would during a process. This should give you an idea of the pumping speed. Also if I imagine your setup correctly you probably have a tube going to the bottom and another near the top of your process container. If possible try to arrange it so the upper line goes to your mixing pump inlet and the return is to the bottom of the container. Methanol tends to separate from the oil and collects near the top so better to pump it from there for best mixing. Joe Rafal Szczesniak wrote: On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 10:11:35AM -0400, Joe Street wrote: Try vacuum dewatering the feedstock before processing and be good and sure about having anhydrous chemicals and you won't have soap. If you are then still getting emulsions, your process is not going far enough. Yes, it looks like. Processing time is 2h, temperature in range of 60-64 degC, agitation using medium-size aquarium water pump - I think it's enough for 5l test container. Maybe I should redesign the container's inlet and outlet (both in the same lid - two plastic pipes of different length). ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] soap or mono- and diglycerides
On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 05:05:59PM -0700, Ken Provost wrote: On Sep 9, 2006, at 4:31 PM, Rafal Szczesniak wrote: I'm talking about the result I get from the washing test. I know the soap formation is only possible in presence of water dissolving the lye. That's probably why aggresive mixing in the test could produce the soap in my case. Except by the time you're washing, the NaOH will be so dilute it shouldn't produce any additional soap. I think all your glycerides and all your soap will be present already -- if you want to know the relative proportions, an FFA assay or gas chromatogram are possible ways. One of the reasons I raised this question is that I'd like to know for sure, after my product fails the wash test, whether I should increase the amount of lye or decrease it. -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] soap or mono- and diglicerides
Hi all, Could you tell me how can I tell the difference between emulsion caused by unfinished process (glicerides left in the product) and caused by soap formation (too much lye) ? I have a feeling I misinterpret the result I get from the wash test... -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] soap or mono- and diglycerides
On Sep 9, 2006, at 11:12 AM, Rafal Szczesniak wrote: Hi all, Could you tell me how can I tell the difference between emulsion caused by unfinished process (glycerides left in the product) and caused by soap formation (too much lye) ? I suppose you could use gentle acidification followed by assaying the resulting FFA (soap will produce FFA, mono- and diglycerides won't). Sounds complicated. In general, soap formation is a result of too much water in the reaction, not too much lye. The concentra- tions of NaOH you're working with (even when somewhat excess- ive) are not high enough to saponify the oil itself -- in the absence of water, only the FFA originally present will form soap. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] soap or mono- and diglycerides
On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 02:18:17PM -0700, Ken Provost wrote: On Sep 9, 2006, at 11:12 AM, Rafal Szczesniak wrote: Hi all, Could you tell me how can I tell the difference between emulsion caused by unfinished process (glycerides left in the product) and caused by soap formation (too much lye) ? I suppose you could use gentle acidification followed by assaying the resulting FFA (soap will produce FFA, mono- and diglycerides won't). Sounds complicated. In general, soap formation is a result of too much water in the reaction, not too much lye. The concentra- tions of NaOH you're working with (even when somewhat excess- ive) are not high enough to saponify the oil itself -- in the absence of water, only the FFA originally present will form soap. Yes, I know that. I'm talking about the result I get from the washing test. I know the soap formation is only possible in presence of water dissolving the lye. That's probably why aggresive mixing in the test could produce the soap in my case. I'm trying to find out whether emulsion I get comes from soap or unfinshed reaction. The product seems to have pH 7 (tested with the litmus paper). -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] soap, glycerine by-product and how my farm is
Actually my land is real flat, so underground will not work. I have looked into solar dehydrators, but with my normal humidity of 80%, it is hard to dry anything. We run the hot water through the towel rack while having our showers in order to heat and dry the towels. They naturally soak up moisture from our environment. If you know how to dehydrate with high humidity, I would love to learn. Would you like plans for a VERY cheap dehumidifier (probably less than $20) that can take out over a gallon of water a day (depending on humidity) ?? Incidently we are having an underground (Earth Sheltered) house built, and below 4' the tempreture is around 50 oF (coldest)in Winter and 64 oF (warmest) in summer, so maybe even a Storm Cellar type structure built into the ground may work. Rob Image by FlamingText.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] soap, glycerine by-product and how my farm is
Rob wrote: Would you like plans for a VERY cheap dehumidifier (probably less than $20) that can take out over a gallon of water a day (depending on humidity) ?? I would very much like the plans. How much energy does it use? We do have an electric humidifyer, but it sucks powers like an AC unit. Necessary to use, at times, but I hate plugging the darn thing in. Incidently we are having an underground (Earth Sheltered) house built, and below 4' the tempreture is around 50 oF (coldest)in Winter and 64 oF (warmest) in summer, so maybe even a Storm Cellar type structure built into the ground may work. Must be nice. With our heavy clay, heavy rains and flat land that is slightly lower than all our neighbors, this is not a good idea. Rob Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] soap, glycerine by-product and how my farm is
Rob I have a very damp basement and would be interested in your plans for the dehumidifier. Steve Hess -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kim Garth Travis Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] soap, glycerine by-product and how my farm is Greetings Rob, Rob wrote: Would you like plans for a VERY cheap dehumidifier (probably less than $20) that can take out over a gallon of water a day (depending on humidity) ?? I would very much like the plans. How much energy does it use? We do have an electric humidifyer, but it sucks powers like an AC unit. Necessary to use, at times, but I hate plugging the darn thing in. Incidently we are having an underground (Earth Sheltered) house built, and below 4' the tempreture is around 50 oF (coldest)in Winter and 64 oF (warmest) in summer, so maybe even a Storm Cellar type structure built into the ground may work. Must be nice. With our heavy clay, heavy rains and flat land that is slightly lower than all our neighbors, this is not a good idea. Rob Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] soap, glycerine by-product and how my farm is doing
Keith Addison wrote: I do want to make some liquid soap, but not from by-product, I want good soap (shower soap). I made some a couple of times before with olive oil, not too bad, but not that good either. I've read that you really need coconut oil to make good liquid soap, and I can't get coconut oil here. What do you use? I only use coconut oil in my dishwashing soap. Castor bean oil is good, but I am heavy on the tallow usage. I do make a 100% olive for shampoo, but I superfat it 5% and lately have been using both NaOH and KOH together to get a creamy soap. I have really enjoyed using goat tallow, but now I am out. I do use lots of emu oil, but I used to own a bunch of them. [The last of them is on their way to the freezer as we speak.] Lard is one of the best soap ingredients there is. I also really like lamb tallow. I was in an exotic oil soap swap and got some fantastic soaps, including one called 'Road Kill'. Quite exotic. snip Good luck Kim, please keep us advised. I will certainly do so. I have a 55 gal drum of used oil just waiting for me to learn what to do with it. This summer will see a building go in to house a generator and biofuel lab. Now, just have to find time to actually learn how to make the fuel. snip But you've learnt from that now, you won't make those mistakes next time, and it'll give you better insight on other things too, don't you think? I hope so. I am so tired of finding out after I build the darn thing that I have done it wrong. By now I have gotten smarter, as soon as I have something to test, I test it! I don't wait for the thing to be completely finished to find out my booboos. Snip If it's efficient (buried inside a hill?) and you have sufficient on-farm energy it might be worthwhile. Do you smoke meat, or make pemmican (biltong)? Sun-dried fruit? Some veggies sun-dry well too. Ferments are probably best. Actually my land is real flat, so underground will not work. I have looked into solar dehydrators, but with my normal humidity of 80%, it is hard to dry anything. We run the hot water through the towel rack while having our showers in order to heat and dry the towels. They naturally soak up moisture from our environment. If you know how to dehydrate with high humidity, I would love to learn. A smoke house is on the list of things to build, but when I am not sure. Fermented food still has to be stored at around 50F or it spoils. That is what I did with last years harvest and we love it. Much better for us, no more bought condiments either. I now make them all myself and like them better. Well, chores are calling. As always the above is true again. I have a chicken loose that the dog scared so, by now she should have calmed down and I can go and catch her. If I leave her out for the night, she will be something's dinner. Thanks Kim, strength to yer arm! Thanks Keith, and much health and energy to you as well as Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] soap, glycerine by-product and how my farm is doing
Greetings, Keith I make soap with KOH and/or NaOH depending on what I want. A liquid soap, bar soap or cream soap. The trouble, if it is one, is that we use KOH in the first place for the process, so the by-product is liquid. I doubt that using NaOH in a subsequent soapmaking process would solidify it. But I'm planning to try it, just for interest's sake. Maybe it'll gel. I've done the first test with KOH (it has to cure for a couple of weeks now, if it cures), I'll do some more in the next few days. I do want to make some liquid soap, but not from by-product, I want good soap (shower soap). I made some a couple of times before with olive oil, not too bad, but not that good either. I've read that you really need coconut oil to make good liquid soap, and I can't get coconut oil here. What do you use? I don't know what you have available for animals tallows, but goat, emu and pig are all wonderfully hydrating, so using them in addition to your leftovers could remove the caustic qualities. Interesting Kim. I do rather wonder just what exactly one would be trying to make soap out of in producing soap from glyc by-product, as people claim to do. All the vegoil (triglycerides) is gone already, it's in the biodesel now; you do have FFAs, not the ideal feedstock for soapmaking, but it's already been converted to soap-of-sorts; and there's probably about 40% or so crude glycerine in there, though about 13% would be ideal, and you can't make soap out of glycerine. So it had occurred to me that the secret of making *good* soap out of the stuff might be to add triglycerides, tallows being a good candidate. Depending where you live (no need in Texas it seems), you should probably settle out tallows and lards from the WVO anyway for winter fuel (heat it up then cool it right down and they'll settle), which might be a good source. I would love to hear how things work out on using the byproduct in biogass production. Since I use a grey water system, I don't thing dumping it down the drain will help.grin I said I'd also be doing soil tests, and I'd like to do grey water tests too. We'll see. The biogas option is very interesting. It'll work, I'm sure, but as Pannirselvam said, optimising it will need investigation. It's be good if some other members took this on too so we could all collaborate. Making biodeisel has been moved up in our priority list. I walked the aisles of the store yesterday looking for a HPDE bottle with 2 lids, they don't exist in this part of Texas. Two lids aren't essential. I guess I will have to syphon off the good stuff when I am done. Or pour it off carefully. You'll find a good way. I will be using my soaping crock pot and my drill press to make my first production unit. I just need to make the mixing blade and to pick up some methanol. I have been preparing for the next few learning lessons as well by picking up a ph meter and some lab equipment for titration. Now, if I can find the time off from the farm to do it. Good luck Kim, please keep us advised. For the last year we had our rabbits directly over the compost pile. This sure saved a lot of work on a weekly basis, but what a nightmare to move! Shoveling out a 16'x4'x4' compost pile from inside a building is not a job I ever want to do again. Um, yes... I've seen that movie before. :-( We are in the middle of a rabbitry rebuild and I have found that I am a really lousy engineer. The first design did not allow the rabbit cage doors to open, the second one had the back of the drain tray so shallow that everything washed right over and onto the floor. I think I have it right this time. But you've learnt from that now, you won't make those mistakes next time, and it'll give you better insight on other things too, don't you think? Our third attempt at a chicken tractor has worked out perfectly. We love it and so do the chickens. The change in the pasture where we have run them is fantastic! The research into traditional food storage in this area has led to an understanding that it was not done. Food storage is either walking on its legs or still in the ground. Fruit was turned into jams, jellies and wine to preserve it. Even if you have a hill to go underground in, the best you will get is 70F. Nice living temperature but not sufficient for cool storage. We are looking a expanding the green houses, in the plans and doing quite a bit of experimenting with what will actually grow when. We will do a small solar ac cool storage, but we are going to try to avoid the need for it. If it's efficient (buried inside a hill?) and you have sufficient on-farm energy it might be worthwhile. Do you smoke meat, or make pemmican (biltong)? Sun-dried fruit? Some veggies sun-dry well too. Ferments are probably best. Well, chores are calling. Thanks Kim, strength to yer arm! Regards Keith Bright Blessings, Kim Keith Addison wrote: snip
[Biofuel] soap, glycerine by-product and how my farm is doing
Keith I make soap with KOH and/or NaOH depending on what I want. A liquid soap, bar soap or cream soap. I don't know what you have available for animals tallows, but goat, emu and pig are all wonderfully hydrating, so using them in addition to your leftovers could remove the caustic qualities. I would love to hear how things work out on using the byproduct in biogass production. Since I use a grey water system, I don't thing dumping it down the drain will help.grin Making biodeisel has been moved up in our priority list. I walked the aisles of the store yesterday looking for a HPDE bottle with 2 lids, they don't exist in this part of Texas. I guess I will have to syphon off the good stuff when I am done. I will be using my soaping crock pot and my drill press to make my first production unit. I just need to make the mixing blade and to pick up some methanol. I have been preparing for the next few learning lessons as well by picking up a ph meter and some lab equipment for titration. Now, if I can find the time off from the farm to do it. For the last year we had our rabbits directly over the compost pile. This sure saved a lot of work on a weekly basis, but what a nightmare to move! Shoveling out a 16'x4'x4' compost pile from inside a building is not a job I ever want to do again. We are in the middle of a rabbitry rebuild and I have found that I am a really lousy engineer. The first design did not allow the rabbit cage doors to open, the second one had the back of the drain tray so shallow that everything washed right over and onto the floor. I think I have it right this time. Our third attempt at a chicken tractor has worked out perfectly. We love it and so do the chickens. The change in the pasture where we have run them is fantastic! The research into traditional food storage in this area has led to an understanding that it was not done. Food storage is either walking on its legs or still in the ground. Fruit was turned into jams, jellies and wine to preserve it. Even if you have a hill to go underground in, the best you will get is 70F. Nice living temperature but not sufficient for cool storage. We are looking a expanding the green houses, in the plans and doing quite a bit of experimenting with what will actually grow when. We will do a small solar ac cool storage, but we are going to try to avoid the need for it. Well, chores are calling. Bright Blessings, Kim Keith Addison wrote: snip I'm sceptical of claims that people make soap out of it of a high enough quality to sell. Anyway we use KOH, not NaOH, so the by-product is always liquid and I don't think it could be made into a solid bar soap. No doubt you can make soap out of it that works okay but isn't good enough to sell, but that would be far more soap than we could ever use. As a cleaner and degreaser it's effective but it's very caustic, rough on the hands. We're working on a soapmaking process that we hope will give us a liquid product that's as effective as a degreaser but won't be so harsh. snip But if that's what you do or want to do, you should check with your local water department first. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050214/005984.html [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: Martin K [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 11:46 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete Keith Addison wrote: Hi Martin Hi Keith et al, I used Perlite mixed with refractory cement in my aluminum casting furnace. The walls saw temperatures surpassing 2000F, it was working well. The mixture was 50/50, and the perlite is very light-weight, reducing the overall mass of the structure. -- Martin K Perlite gives very similar results to rice husk ash. Michael Allen and I discussed Perlite in this context when I made that page on rice husk ash. You used the same ratio of cement as I do with RHA, after trying it 20 different ways in tests. Regards Keith I wouldn't mind using RHA for such a thing, but I don't think I'm within 1000 miles of a rice field. -- Martin K http://wwia.org/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
Keith, Perlite is a generic term for naturally occurring siliceous rock. I am most familiar with the expanded form which I use as packing to hold my dormant, tropical plants during winter storage. Check out http:wwwmperlite.net Regards, Pat Keith wrote: What is perlite? Sent via BlackBerry from EarthLink Wireless.___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
Keith, Perlite is a generic term for naturally occurring siliceous rock. I am most familiar with the expanded form which I use as packing to hold my dormant, tropical plants during winter storage. Check out http:wwwmperlite.net Regards, Pat Well, thanks anyway Pat, but, um... Keith wrote: No I didn't, Pieter Koole did. On the contrary, I provided one of the explanations the first time someone asked, and this time round I provided the archives link to that explanation - THAT is what I wrote. See: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050221/006170.html [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete This is always happening, here and on other lists. Members forward news reports and, though their reason for forwarding them might be strong disagreement rather than endorsement, they get accused of having written them because other members' non-smart emailers are defaulted to quote the previous message by starting with the sender's name followed by wrote. Someone's going to get sued over this one of these days. PLEASE, if your emailer does this, reset it! Thankyou! Keith What is perlite? Sent via BlackBerry from EarthLink Wireless. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
Martin, I wouldn't mind using RHA for such a thing, but I don't think I'm within 1000 miles of a rice field. -- Martin K Are you anywhere near Minnesota? We have quite the rice industry here. After all these posts I though I might look into it this summer. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
What is Perlite ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: Martin K [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 11:46 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete Keith Addison wrote: Hi Martin Hi Keith et al, I used Perlite mixed with refractory cement in my aluminum casting furnace. The walls saw temperatures surpassing 2000F, it was working well. The mixture was 50/50, and the perlite is very light-weight, reducing the overall mass of the structure. -- Martin K Perlite gives very similar results to rice husk ash. Michael Allen and I discussed Perlite in this context when I made that page on rice husk ash. You used the same ratio of cement as I do with RHA, after trying it 20 different ways in tests. Regards Keith I wouldn't mind using RHA for such a thing, but I don't think I'm within 1000 miles of a rice field. -- Martin K http://wwia.org/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
Keith Addison wrote: Hi Martin Hi Keith et al, I used Perlite mixed with refractory cement in my aluminum casting furnace. The walls saw temperatures surpassing 2000F, it was working well. The mixture was 50/50, and the perlite is very light-weight, reducing the overall mass of the structure. -- Martin K Perlite gives very similar results to rice husk ash. Michael Allen and I discussed Perlite in this context when I made that page on rice husk ash. You used the same ratio of cement as I do with RHA, after trying it 20 different ways in tests. Regards Keith I wouldn't mind using RHA for such a thing, but I don't think I'm within 1000 miles of a rice field. -- Martin K http://wwia.org/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
polystyrene pellets into his concrete mix. You know the shipping peanuts. However he had to cut them down to about the size of MM's John Miggins Harvest Solar Wind Power renewable solutions to everyday needs www.harvest-energy.com Phone/Fax 918-743-2299 Cell: 918-521-6223 - Original Message - From: Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete I don't know about using soap, but, professionals make it by mixing in aluminum chips. The aluminum reacts with the calcium hydroxide, and produces aluminum hydroxide and H2 gas. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Doug Foskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 12:52 Subject: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete Hi, I am searching for information on making aerated concrete. For those interested, basically foam is added to a mortar mix, and the mortar can be up to double the quantity, with reduced strength, but added insulation. This is achieved with an organic soap (from what I have found), but I was wondering if anyone had seen info on using home made soap? http://pelagic.wavyhill.xsmail.com/cellcrete_how.html is a site I found with a home made processor From my search on the web, protein hydrolisation seems to be the soap/additive that is used for making the foam. I have not found any more info on how this is made though. Can anyone help me?? regards Doug (I am interested in making tilt up concrete panels for a building.) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
Hi Keith et al, I used Perlite mixed with refractory cement in my aluminum casting furnace. The walls saw temperatures surpassing 2000F, it was working well. The mixture was 50/50, and the perlite is very light-weight, reducing the overall mass of the structure. -- Martin K Perlite gives very similar results to rice husk ash. Michael Allen and I discussed Perlite in this context when I made that page on rice husk ash. You used the same ratio of cement as I do with RHA, after trying it 20 different ways in tests. Regards Keith Keith Addison wrote: Hi Doug Nothing to do with soap, but do you know about this? http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodstove-allen.html Rice-husk stoves - Appropriate technology: Journey to Forever This stuff is great! We're using it to build charcoal-burning stoves, it's an excellent insulator. Have a look at this picture: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/rhahand2.jpg Those coals are really hot! Reduced strength, as you say, but we find that a mix of 1:3 up to 1:1 cement to rice husk ash by weight is pretty strong, and since the RHA is much lighter than the cement, in fact you don't use a lot of cement. It's a bit like pumice or something. Doesn't weigh very much. The rice husk burner works very well, but if you want to put it in a 55-gal/200 litre oil drum, as we did, you'll have to make the cage slightly smaller. Hi, I am searching for information on making aerated concrete. For those interested, basically foam is added to a mortar mix, and the mortar can be up to double the quantity, with reduced strength, but added insulation. This is achieved with an organic soap (from what I have found), but I was wondering if anyone had seen info on using home made soap? http://pelagic.wavyhill.xsmail.com/cellcrete_how.html is a site I found with a home made processor From my search on the web, protein hydrolisation seems to be the soap/additive that is used for making the foam. I have not found any more info on how this is made though. Can anyone help me?? regards Doug (I am interested in making tilt up concrete panels for a building.) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
The process you mention is the process to make Hebel. The problem with using that process, is you need heat (ie Autoclave), and the product is reactive, so requires epoxy coated re-inforcing. The process I am interested in uses externally generated bubbles of less than 1mm diameter, mixed with (fine sand) mortar. This creates a product similar to Hebel, but with better (from my searching, anyway) water properties. (Hebel cannot be wet as it looses strength) Proper aerated concrete retains much of the strength of normal concrete. regards Doug On Tuesday 15 February 2005 8:03, Greg Harbican wrote: I don't know about using soap, but, professionals make it by mixing in aluminum chips. The aluminum reacts with the calcium hydroxide, and produces aluminum hydroxide and H2 gas. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Doug Foskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 12:52 Subject: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete Hi, I am searching for information on making aerated concrete. For those interested, basically foam is added to a mortar mix, and the mortar can be up to double the quantity, with reduced strength, but added insulation. This is achieved with an organic soap (from what I have found), but I was wondering if anyone had seen info on using home made soap? http://pelagic.wavyhill.xsmail.com/cellcrete_how.html is a site I found with a home made processor From my search on the web, protein hydrolisation seems to be the soap/additive that is used for making the foam. I have not found any more info on how this is made though. Can anyone help me?? regards Doug (I am interested in making tilt up concrete panels for a building.) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
No problem, Caroline. I would be more likely to posr any results on the list, as there are others probably interested. Others are welcome to use the Delete key! regards Doug (I really like the group because we have such diverse interests views!) On Tuesday 15 February 2005 7:33, grahams wrote: At 02:52 PM 2/14/2005, you wrote: Hi, I am searching for information on making aerated concrete. For those interested, basically foam is added to a mortar mix, and the mortar can be up to double the quantity, with reduced strength, but added insulation. This is achieved with an organic soap (from what I have found), but I was wondering if anyone had seen info on using home made soap? There are many recipes for how people make/use homemade soap for dishes. I would suggest you make a batch of concrete as the directions state to get an idea how the consistency is supposed to be at each stage and then experiment substituting with homemade soap -whatever recipe you decide to use. Perhaps you will need to adjust your soap recipe (or quantities needed) to end up with a similar outcome. I would love to hear of your results, email me privately if you don't mind when you experiment. Caroline Caroline ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
Hi All ; Could I ask a stupid question? What is Perlite? Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Martin Hi Keith et al, I used Perlite mixed with refractory cement in my aluminum casting furnace. The walls saw temperatures surpassing 2000F, it was working well. The mixture was 50/50, and the perlite is very light-weight, reducing the overall mass of the structure. -- Martin K Perlite gives very similar results to rice husk ash. Michael Allen and I discussed Perlite in this context when I made that page on rice husk ash. You used the same ratio of cement as I do with RHA, after trying it 20 different ways in tests. Regards Keith Keith Addison wrote: Hi Doug Nothing to do with soap, but do you know about this? http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodstove-allen.html Rice-husk stoves - Appropriate technology: Journey to Forever This stuff is great! We're using it to build charcoal-burning stoves, it's an excellent insulator. Have a look at this picture: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/rhahand2.jpg Those coals are really hot! Reduced strength, as you say, but we find that a mix of 1:3 up to 1:1 cement to rice husk ash by weight is pretty strong, and since the RHA is much lighter than the cement, in fact you don't use a lot of cement. It's a bit like pumice or something. Doesn't weigh very much. The rice husk burner works very well, but if you want to put it in a 55-gal/200 litre oil drum, as we did, you'll have to make the cage slightly smaller. Hi, I am searching for information on making aerated concrete. For those interested, basically foam is added to a mortar mix, and the mortar can be up to double the quantity, with reduced strength, but added insulation. This is achieved with an organic soap (from what I have found), but I was wondering if anyone had seen info on using home made soap? http://pelagic.wavyhill.xsmail.com/cellcrete_how.html is a site I found with a home made processor From my search on the web, protein hydrolisation seems to be the soap/additive that is used for making the foam. I have not found any more info on how this is made though. Can anyone help me?? regards Doug (I am interested in making tilt up concrete panels for a building.) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
Perlites and found with the Borates and all part of the volcanic geological evolution. We have a lot of Perlites in our Sierra Nevadas in California. Same with borates (borax). Borates, perlites, colemanites, - all that stuff can be found anywhere you have an escarpment of raised mountains due to ancient volcanic magma scarns and earthquake activity especially next to an arid desert bowl. What is Perlite? http://www.perlite.info/hbk/0034409.htm Perlite is not a trade name but a generic term for naturally occurring siliceous volcanic rock. The distinguishing feature which sets perlite apart from other volcanic glasses is that when heated to a suitable point in its softening range, it expands from four to twenty times its original volume. This expansion process is due to the presence of two to six percent combined water in the crude perlite rock. When quickly heated to above 1600 F (870 C) the crude rock pops in a manner similar to popcorn as the combined water vaporizes and creates countless tiny bubbles in the softened glassy particles. It is these tiny glass-sealed bubbles which account for the amazing lightweight and other exceptional physical properties of expanded perlite. The expansion process also creates one of perlite's most distinguishing characteristics: its white color. While the crude perlite rock may range from transparent to light gray to glossy black, the color of expanded perlite ranges from snowy white to grayish white. Expanded perlite can be manufactured to weigh from 2 lbs/ft3 (32 kg/m3) to 15 lb/ft3 (240 kg/m3) making it adaptable for numerous uses, including filtration, horticultural applications, insulation, inert carriers and a multitude of filler applications. --- Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All ; Could I ask a stupid question? What is Perlite? Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Martin Hi Keith et al, I used Perlite mixed with refractory cement in my aluminum casting furnace. The walls saw temperatures surpassing 2000F, it was working well. The mixture was 50/50, and the perlite is very light-weight, reducing the overall mass of the structure. -- Martin K Perlite gives very similar results to rice husk ash. Michael Allen and I discussed Perlite in this context when I made that page on rice husk ash. You used the same ratio of cement as I do with RHA, after trying it 20 different ways in tests. Regards Keith Keith Addison wrote: Hi Doug Nothing to do with soap, but do you know about this? http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodstove-allen.html Rice-husk stoves - Appropriate technology: Journey to Forever This stuff is great! We're using it to build charcoal-burning stoves, it's an excellent insulator. Have a look at this picture: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/rhahand2.jpg Those coals are really hot! Reduced strength, as you say, but we find that a mix of 1:3 up to 1:1 cement to rice husk ash by weight is pretty strong, and since the RHA is much lighter than the cement, in fact you don't use a lot of cement. It's a bit like pumice or something. Doesn't weigh very much. The rice husk burner works very well, but if you want to put it in a 55-gal/200 litre oil drum, as we did, you'll have to make the cage slightly smaller. Hi, I am searching for information on making aerated concrete. For those interested, basically foam is added to a mortar mix, and the mortar can be up to double the quantity, with reduced strength, but added insulation. This is achieved with an organic soap (from what I have found), but I was wondering if anyone had seen info on using home made soap? http://pelagic.wavyhill.xsmail.com/cellcrete_how.html is a site I found with a home made processor From my search on the web, protein hydrolisation seems to be the soap/additive that is used for making the foam. I have not found any more info on how this is made though. Can anyone help me?? regards Doug (I am interested in making tilt up concrete panels for a building.) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
Guag - One of my favoite borates is called Ulexite. Ulexite is called a natural fiber optic by scientists and TV rock by children. It exists in oxidized form as a rock but you can see throught the rock because it allows light to pass through its crystalline structure - thus transmistting the light. Take a look: http://www.gc.maricopa.edu/earthsci/imagearchive/ulexite.htm The natural world is a great. Phillip Wolfe --- Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perlites and found with the Borates and all part of the volcanic geological evolution. We have a lot of Perlites in our Sierra Nevadas in California. Same with borates (borax). Borates, perlites, colemanites, - all that stuff can be found anywhere you have an escarpment of raised mountains due to ancient volcanic magma scarns and earthquake activity especially next to an arid desert bowl. What is Perlite? http://www.perlite.info/hbk/0034409.htm Perlite is not a trade name but a generic term for naturally occurring siliceous volcanic rock. The distinguishing feature which sets perlite apart from other volcanic glasses is that when heated to a suitable point in its softening range, it expands from four to twenty times its original volume. This expansion process is due to the presence of two to six percent combined water in the crude perlite rock. When quickly heated to above 1600 F (870 C) the crude rock pops in a manner similar to popcorn as the combined water vaporizes and creates countless tiny bubbles in the softened glassy particles. It is these tiny glass-sealed bubbles which account for the amazing lightweight and other exceptional physical properties of expanded perlite. The expansion process also creates one of perlite's most distinguishing characteristics: its white color. While the crude perlite rock may range from transparent to light gray to glossy black, the color of expanded perlite ranges from snowy white to grayish white. Expanded perlite can be manufactured to weigh from 2 lbs/ft3 (32 kg/m3) to 15 lb/ft3 (240 kg/m3) making it adaptable for numerous uses, including filtration, horticultural applications, insulation, inert carriers and a multitude of filler applications. --- Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All ; Could I ask a stupid question? What is Perlite? Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Martin Hi Keith et al, I used Perlite mixed with refractory cement in my aluminum casting furnace. The walls saw temperatures surpassing 2000F, it was working well. The mixture was 50/50, and the perlite is very light-weight, reducing the overall mass of the structure. -- Martin K Perlite gives very similar results to rice husk ash. Michael Allen and I discussed Perlite in this context when I made that page on rice husk ash. You used the same ratio of cement as I do with RHA, after trying it 20 different ways in tests. Regards Keith Keith Addison wrote: Hi Doug Nothing to do with soap, but do you know about this? http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodstove-allen.html Rice-husk stoves - Appropriate technology: Journey to Forever This stuff is great! We're using it to build charcoal-burning stoves, it's an excellent insulator. Have a look at this picture: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/rhahand2.jpg Those coals are really hot! Reduced strength, as you say, but we find that a mix of 1:3 up to 1:1 cement to rice husk ash by weight is pretty strong, and since the RHA is much lighter than the cement, in fact you don't use a lot of cement. It's a bit like pumice or something. Doesn't weigh very much. The rice husk burner works very well, but if you want to put it in a 55-gal/200 litre oil drum, as we did, you'll have to make the cage slightly smaller. Hi, I am searching for information on making aerated concrete. For those interested, basically foam is added to a mortar mix, and the mortar can be up to double the quantity, with reduced strength, but added insulation. This is achieved with an organic soap (from what I have found), but I was wondering if anyone had seen info on using home made soap? http://pelagic.wavyhill.xsmail.com/cellcrete_how.html is a site I found with a home made processor From my search on the web, protein hydrolisation seems to be the soap/additive that is used for making the foam. I have not found any more info on how this is made though. Can anyone help me?? regards Doug (I am interested in making tilt up concrete panels for a building.) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
Perlite is made from a siliceous volcanic rock for horticultural use and also for insulation. When heated to a suitable point in its softening range, it expands from four to twenty times its original volume. This expansion is due to the presence of two to six percent combined water in the crude perlite rock. When quickly heated to above 1600¡F (871¡C), the crude rock pops in a manner similar to popcorn as the combined water vaporizes and creates countless tiny bubbles which account for the amazing light weight and other exceptional physical properties of expanded perlite. So it's very similar to rice husk ash, which, when properly prepared, consists mainly of myriad tiny glass bubbles. A major difference is that Perlite is a product, rice husk is one of the world's most underutilised waste materials. Perlite is very fragile and makes an unpleasant dust. Wear a breathing mask. Reject perlite of a suitable grade can often be obtained free of charge (or at low cost) from the manufacturers. Best wishes Keith Perlites and found with the Borates and all part of the volcanic geological evolution. We have a lot of Perlites in our Sierra Nevadas in California. Same with borates (borax). Borates, perlites, colemanites, - all that stuff can be found anywhere you have an escarpment of raised mountains due to ancient volcanic magma scarns and earthquake activity especially next to an arid desert bowl. What is Perlite? http://www.perlite.info/hbk/0034409.htm Perlite is not a trade name but a generic term for naturally occurring siliceous volcanic rock. The distinguishing feature which sets perlite apart from other volcanic glasses is that when heated to a suitable point in its softening range, it expands from four to twenty times its original volume. This expansion process is due to the presence of two to six percent combined water in the crude perlite rock. When quickly heated to above 1600 F (870 C) the crude rock pops in a manner similar to popcorn as the combined water vaporizes and creates countless tiny bubbles in the softened glassy particles. It is these tiny glass-sealed bubbles which account for the amazing lightweight and other exceptional physical properties of expanded perlite. The expansion process also creates one of perlite's most distinguishing characteristics: its white color. While the crude perlite rock may range from transparent to light gray to glossy black, the color of expanded perlite ranges from snowy white to grayish white. Expanded perlite can be manufactured to weigh from 2 lbs/ft3 (32 kg/m3) to 15 lb/ft3 (240 kg/m3) making it adaptable for numerous uses, including filtration, horticultural applications, insulation, inert carriers and a multitude of filler applications. --- Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All ; Could I ask a stupid question? What is Perlite? Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Martin Hi Keith et al, I used Perlite mixed with refractory cement in my aluminum casting furnace. The walls saw temperatures surpassing 2000F, it was working well. The mixture was 50/50, and the perlite is very light-weight, reducing the overall mass of the structure. -- Martin K Perlite gives very similar results to rice husk ash. Michael Allen and I discussed Perlite in this context when I made that page on rice husk ash. You used the same ratio of cement as I do with RHA, after trying it 20 different ways in tests. Regards Keith Keith Addison wrote: Hi Doug Nothing to do with soap, but do you know about this? http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodstove-allen.html Rice-husk stoves - Appropriate technology: Journey to Forever This stuff is great! We're using it to build charcoal-burning stoves, it's an excellent insulator. Have a look at this picture: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/rhahand2.jpg Those coals are really hot! Reduced strength, as you say, but we find that a mix of 1:3 up to 1:1 cement to rice husk ash by weight is pretty strong, and since the RHA is much lighter than the cement, in fact you don't use a lot of cement. It's a bit like pumice or something. Doesn't weigh very much. The rice husk burner works very well, but if you want to put it in a 55-gal/200 litre oil drum, as we did, you'll have to make the cage slightly smaller. Hi, I am searching for information on making aerated concrete. For those interested, basically foam is added to a mortar mix, and the mortar can be up to double the quantity, with reduced strength, but added insulation. This is achieved with an organic soap (from what I have found), but I was wondering if anyone had seen info on using home made soap? http://pelagic.wavyhill.xsmail.com/cellcrete_how.html is a site I found with a home made processor From my search on the web, protein
Re: [Biofuel] Soap
Hell Pieter et al, soap making is transforming an oil into a metal salt. There are tables over the saponification numbers for most oils, based upon the average molecule mass for each oil. When using KOH or NaOH , it«s the K+ and Na+ parts that creates the soap together with the fatty acids of the oil. It does not matter if there are free fatty acids or not. In order to saponify an unknown oil correctly, you have to establish its average molecule weight first, but a good guess would be to use the molecule mass of palm oil, since WVO mostly has that origin. Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 7:48 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Soap Hi all, The more I read the messages about soap making, the more I realize that I don't understand the principle of soap making. Can anybody tell me (or give a link) what exactly is saponification ? Do only the FFA's saponify, or the total oil ? If this saponification is well known, why isn't it possible to find out how much lye is needed in an unknown oil (mixture) like WVO ? If somebody ever found out how much lye one needs to saponify (is that the right word ?) for example olive oil, how did he or she do that ? Can't we replicate that method with a mixture of used oils ? Mike wrote that coconut oil could dry out the skin if used to much. Why does it do that ? What happens ? Why doesn't olive oil do that ? Somewhere I also read, that glycerin moisturizes the skin, but if one would use to much in soap, it would work the other way round and dry out the skin. Why is that ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: Anti-Fossil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 3:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making I have been making my own soap for about 14 years now. The only real secret that I have found in regards to fantastic foaming action of your soaps is the inclusion of coconut oil (c.o.) in your recipe. I am aware that a few of the more popular websites, and even books written on the subject, warn against using too high a percentage of c.o. because of its drying effects on the skin. However, I keep the percentage of c.o. in my soap between 20% and 40%, and haven't had any problems with excessively dry skin. Common sense must also come in to play of course. If you start with dry skin, you would definitely want to stay on lower end of those percentages with c.o., and increase the hydrating oils like olive, and settle for less foaming soap. AntiFossil Mike Krafka USA - Original Message - From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making Dear Legal Eagle, There is an industrial and commercial method of using refined glycerin for the manufacturing of natural soaps and detergents (and the harsher soaps too). As JFT advocates, there is a personal quest too - making your own stuff. In the industrial and commercial world there is a worldwide glut of glcyerin! compared to a couple years ago. I've been following this recently. But on the personal level, me thinks the idea of making homegrown soaps is pretty neat. It can be Family get together like making ice cream! Take care and good luck! --- Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close to pure glycerine, providing we have a market for it, or we can use it to make soap. JtF has a few good articles on that too. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html I am in the process of experiementing with a couple recipes that, I hope, will give a fairly decent usable product. I have used some as a body soap and it works great, however very little foamong action and that is a problem in most circles, so I am trying three diffenrent approaches. 1) 100ml water with 10gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 2) 150ml water with 15gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 30 200ml water with 20gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product Firstly the methanol must be removed/recovered by raising the temps above 65C (148.5F) and then the NaOH disolved into a little more than warm water. Once the glycerine has cooled a bit, to about 43C (110F) then mix in the water/NaOH while stirring for about a minute or two. Pour into a mold and let settle. How long will be subject of another post when I have it figured out :-) The first one has had two weeks to settle out anything that was going
[Biofuel] Soap
Dear Sir/Madams, Is there any body who can help me making my biodiesel in house. Which way iste cheapest way to make biodiesel. I have read nearly all the web pages. regards, Seref ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap
Hell Pieter et al, soap making is transforming an oil into a metal salt. There are tables over the saponification numbers for most oils, based upon the average molecule mass for each oil. When using KOH or NaOH , it«s the K+ and Na+ parts that creates the soap together with the fatty acids of the oil. It does not matter if there are free fatty acids or not. In order to saponify an unknown oil correctly, you have to establish its average molecule weight first, but a good guess would be to use the molecule mass of palm oil, since WVO mostly has that origin. Is that the case in Sweden Jan? I don't think it's universal. Here in Japan it's usually canola or soy, in Australia I think cottonseed oil and beef tallow are common. I'm not sure what other countries use. Sunflower, corn, safflower, peanut, olive, sesame, coconut... We had a member from Greece asking about processing olive oil WVO. I'd like to know who gets what WVO where - any volunteers? Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 7:48 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Soap Hi all, The more I read the messages about soap making, the more I realize that I don't understand the principle of soap making. Can anybody tell me (or give a link) what exactly is saponification ? Do only the FFA's saponify, or the total oil ? If this saponification is well known, why isn't it possible to find out how much lye is needed in an unknown oil (mixture) like WVO ? If somebody ever found out how much lye one needs to saponify (is that the right word ?) for example olive oil, how did he or she do that ? Can't we replicate that method with a mixture of used oils ? Mike wrote that coconut oil could dry out the skin if used to much. Why does it do that ? What happens ? Why doesn't olive oil do that ? Somewhere I also read, that glycerin moisturizes the skin, but if one would use to much in soap, it would work the other way round and dry out the skin. Why is that Glycerin is a moisturiser up to a point, and beyond that point it's a hydrophiliac - ie it loves water, or water loves it. So when there's too much glycerin it will extract all the water from your skin. Best wishes Keith Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: Anti-Fossil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 3:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making I have been making my own soap for about 14 years now. The only real secret that I have found in regards to fantastic foaming action of your soaps is the inclusion of coconut oil (c.o.) in your recipe. I am aware that a few of the more popular websites, and even books written on the subject, warn against using too high a percentage of c.o. because of its drying effects on the skin. However, I keep the percentage of c.o. in my soap between 20% and 40%, and haven't had any problems with excessively dry skin. Common sense must also come in to play of course. If you start with dry skin, you would definitely want to stay on lower end of those percentages with c.o., and increase the hydrating oils like olive, and settle for less foaming soap. AntiFossil Mike Krafka USA - Original Message - From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making Dear Legal Eagle, There is an industrial and commercial method of using refined glycerin for the manufacturing of natural soaps and detergents (and the harsher soaps too). As JFT advocates, there is a personal quest too - making your own stuff. In the industrial and commercial world there is a worldwide glut of glcyerin! compared to a couple years ago. I've been following this recently. But on the personal level, me thinks the idea of making homegrown soaps is pretty neat. It can be Family get together like making ice cream! Take care and good luck! --- Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close to pure glycerine, providing we have a market for it, or we can use it to make soap. JtF has a few good articles on that too. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html I am in the process of experiementing with a couple recipes that, I hope, will give a fairly decent usable product. I have used some as a body soap and it works great, however very little foamong action and that is a problem in most circles, so I am trying three diffenrent approaches. 1) 100ml water with 10gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 2) 150ml water
[Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
Hi, I am searching for information on making aerated concrete. For those interested, basically foam is added to a mortar mix, and the mortar can be up to double the quantity, with reduced strength, but added insulation. This is achieved with an organic soap (from what I have found), but I was wondering if anyone had seen info on using home made soap? http://pelagic.wavyhill.xsmail.com/cellcrete_how.html is a site I found with a home made processor From my search on the web, protein hydrolisation seems to be the soap/additive that is used for making the foam. I have not found any more info on how this is made though. Can anyone help me?? regards Doug (I am interested in making tilt up concrete panels for a building.) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
Nothing to do with soap, but do you know about this? http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodstove-allen.html Rice-husk stoves - Appropriate technology: Journey to Forever This stuff is great! We're using it to build charcoal-burning stoves, it's an excellent insulator. Have a look at this picture: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/rhahand2.jpg Those coals are really hot! Reduced strength, as you say, but we find that a mix of 1:3 up to 1:1 cement to rice husk ash by weight is pretty strong, and since the RHA is much lighter than the cement, in fact you don't use a lot of cement. It's a bit like pumice or something. Doesn't weigh very much. The rice husk burner works very well, but if you want to put it in a 55-gal/200 litre oil drum, as we did, you'll have to make the cage slightly smaller. Hi, I am searching for information on making aerated concrete. For those interested, basically foam is added to a mortar mix, and the mortar can be up to double the quantity, with reduced strength, but added insulation. This is achieved with an organic soap (from what I have found), but I was wondering if anyone had seen info on using home made soap? http://pelagic.wavyhill.xsmail.com/cellcrete_how.html is a site I found with a home made processor From my search on the web, protein hydrolisation seems to be the soap/additive that is used for making the foam. I have not found any more info on how this is made though. Can anyone help me?? regards Doug (I am interested in making tilt up concrete panels for a building.) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
Hi, I am searching for information on making aerated concrete. For those interested, basically foam is added to a mortar mix, and the mortar can be up to double the quantity, with reduced strength, but added insulation. This is achieved with an organic soap (from what I have found), but I was wondering if anyone had seen info on using home made soap? There are many recipes for how people make/use homemade soap for dishes. I would suggest you make a batch of concrete as the directions state to get an idea how the consistency is supposed to be at each stage and then experiment substituting with homemade soap -whatever recipe you decide to use. Perhaps you will need to adjust your soap recipe (or quantities needed) to end up with a similar outcome. I would love to hear of your results, email me privately if you don't mind when you experiment. Caroline Caroline ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
I don't know about using soap, but, professionals make it by mixing in aluminum chips. The aluminum reacts with the calcium hydroxide, and produces aluminum hydroxide and H2 gas. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Doug Foskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 12:52 Subject: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete Hi, I am searching for information on making aerated concrete. For those interested, basically foam is added to a mortar mix, and the mortar can be up to double the quantity, with reduced strength, but added insulation. This is achieved with an organic soap (from what I have found), but I was wondering if anyone had seen info on using home made soap? http://pelagic.wavyhill.xsmail.com/cellcrete_how.html is a site I found with a home made processor From my search on the web, protein hydrolisation seems to be the soap/additive that is used for making the foam. I have not found any more info on how this is made though. Can anyone help me?? regards Doug (I am interested in making tilt up concrete panels for a building.) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
I used Perlite mixed with refractory cement in my aluminum casting furnace. The walls saw temperatures surpassing 2000F, it was working well. The mixture was 50/50, and the perlite is very light-weight, reducing the overall mass of the structure. -- Martin K Keith Addison wrote: Hi Doug Nothing to do with soap, but do you know about this? http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodstove-allen.html Rice-husk stoves - Appropriate technology: Journey to Forever This stuff is great! We're using it to build charcoal-burning stoves, it's an excellent insulator. Have a look at this picture: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/rhahand2.jpg Those coals are really hot! Reduced strength, as you say, but we find that a mix of 1:3 up to 1:1 cement to rice husk ash by weight is pretty strong, and since the RHA is much lighter than the cement, in fact you don't use a lot of cement. It's a bit like pumice or something. Doesn't weigh very much. The rice husk burner works very well, but if you want to put it in a 55-gal/200 litre oil drum, as we did, you'll have to make the cage slightly smaller. Hi, I am searching for information on making aerated concrete. For those interested, basically foam is added to a mortar mix, and the mortar can be up to double the quantity, with reduced strength, but added insulation. This is achieved with an organic soap (from what I have found), but I was wondering if anyone had seen info on using home made soap? http://pelagic.wavyhill.xsmail.com/cellcrete_how.html is a site I found with a home made processor From my search on the web, protein hydrolisation seems to be the soap/additive that is used for making the foam. I have not found any more info on how this is made though. Can anyone help me?? regards Doug (I am interested in making tilt up concrete panels for a building.) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
Hi, I am searching for information on making aerated concrete. For those [snip] ... ... [snip] Can anyone help me?? regards Doug (I am interested in making tilt up concrete panels for a building.) A word of warning - get professional advice on this ie a structural engineer, before you actually use it. I had some experience with this type of technology in the early '90's and if I remember correctly, the strength of the aerated concrete, is between 0.1 0.2 that of normal concrete - 4.5MPa Vs 20 - 40MPa. If in turn you are doing tilt-up construction, this lower strength could cause problems when the panels are tilted - unless you get your reinforcment right, the panel will snap when being lifted, or are you tilting the whole forming bed? You might want to have a look at this site, they have some info there, CAD drawings etc that might be of interest: http://www.hebelaustralia.com.au/ Regards, Andrew Lowe ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Soap
Hi all, The more I read the messages about soap making, the more I realize that I don't understand the principle of soap making. Can anybody tell me (or give a link) what exactly is saponification ? Do only the FFA's saponify, or the total oil ? If this saponification is well known, why isn't it possible to find out how much lye is needed in an unknown oil (mixture) like WVO ? If somebody ever found out how much lye one needs to saponify (is that the right word ?) for example olive oil, how did he or she do that ? Can't we replicate that method with a mixture of used oils ? Mike wrote that coconut oil could dry out the skin if used to much. Why does it do that ? What happens ? Why doesn't olive oil do that ? Somewhere I also read, that glycerin moisturizes the skin, but if one would use to much in soap, it would work the other way round and dry out the skin. Why is that ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: Anti-Fossil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 3:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making I have been making my own soap for about 14 years now. The only real secret that I have found in regards to fantastic foaming action of your soaps is the inclusion of coconut oil (c.o.) in your recipe. I am aware that a few of the more popular websites, and even books written on the subject, warn against using too high a percentage of c.o. because of its drying effects on the skin. However, I keep the percentage of c.o. in my soap between 20% and 40%, and haven't had any problems with excessively dry skin. Common sense must also come in to play of course. If you start with dry skin, you would definitely want to stay on lower end of those percentages with c.o., and increase the hydrating oils like olive, and settle for less foaming soap. AntiFossil Mike Krafka USA - Original Message - From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making Dear Legal Eagle, There is an industrial and commercial method of using refined glycerin for the manufacturing of natural soaps and detergents (and the harsher soaps too). As JFT advocates, there is a personal quest too - making your own stuff. In the industrial and commercial world there is a worldwide glut of glcyerin! compared to a couple years ago. I've been following this recently. But on the personal level, me thinks the idea of making homegrown soaps is pretty neat. It can be Family get together like making ice cream! Take care and good luck! --- Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close to pure glycerine, providing we have a market for it, or we can use it to make soap. JtF has a few good articles on that too. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html I am in the process of experiementing with a couple recipes that, I hope, will give a fairly decent usable product. I have used some as a body soap and it works great, however very little foamong action and that is a problem in most circles, so I am trying three diffenrent approaches. 1) 100ml water with 10gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 2) 150ml water with 15gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 30 200ml water with 20gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product Firstly the methanol must be removed/recovered by raising the temps above 65C (148.5F) and then the NaOH disolved into a little more than warm water. Once the glycerine has cooled a bit, to about 43C (110F) then mix in the water/NaOH while stirring for about a minute or two. Pour into a mold and let settle. How long will be subject of another post when I have it figured out :-) The first one has had two weeks to settle out anything that was going to do that and it did. Some gelatenous substance caked a portion of the hardened glycerine and had to be scrapped off, but the result was still solid bars. The second and third recipes are yet to be finished however they already show more potential, primarily the third which began solidifying almost immediately and shows good promise. I shall keep you posted as to the success/failure of this as we go along. No sense throwing away a perfectly good product if it can be used eh? I am determined that it will. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap
Some definitions: http://www.lipid.co.uk/maintest.html http://www.snowdriftfarm.com/fatproperties2.html A cursory explanation of saponification: http://chemistry.about.com/library/glossary/bldef825.htm Do only the FFA's saponify, or the total oil ? Presuming the amount of caustic in the reaction is sufficient to match the number of fatty acid carbo chains in the oil mixture, all the carbon chains of the tri-, di- and mono-glycerides snap off and bond with the caustic to make soap. If FFAs are present in the mix (FFAs are carbon chains that have already been snapped off a mono-, di- or triglyceride) they immediately attach to the metal ion (potassium, sodium, etc.) to form soap as well. Each carbon chain from a fat or oil molecule is a fatty acid. It's called a FFA when it's roaming around unattached to anything else. It's a soap when attached to a metal ion (potassium, sodium, calcium, magnesium, aluminum, etc.). It's a glyceride when a glycerol molecule is still attached to it. Mono-glycerides are one fatty-acid (one carbon chain) attached to a glycerol molecule. Di-glycerides are two fatty-acids (two carbon chains) attached to one glycerol molecule. Tri-glycerides are three fatty-acids (three carbon chains) attached to one glycerol molecule. One thing you need to be aware of is that all oils and fats possess different types of fatty acid chains in varying combinations and ratios. An oil or fat is defined by what ratios of particular fatty acids exist within its entire makeup. For instance, palm oil is comprized of approximately 42.7% oleic fatty acids, 40.1% linoleic fatty acids, 10.3 stearic fatty acids and 1.4 myristic fatty acids. Within that ratio, a single tri-glyceride of palm oil might have one myristic fatty acid (one myristic carbon chain), one stearic fatty acid (one stearic carbon chain) and one oleic fatty acid (one oleic carbon chain). The tri-glyceride next to it might have a completely different set of fatty acids or a different ratio of some of the same. A completely different oil will have a completely different ratio of fatty acids. Some of those acids are largely universal in all fats and oils Others are found only in a specific few or perhaps single oil. A short list of fatty acids include arachidic, behenic, capric, caproic, caprylic, lauric, lignoceric, linoleic, linolenic, monoethenoic, myristic, myristoleic, oleic, palmitic, palmitioleic, ricinoleic, stearic. Here is a chart that gives sap values and an idea of what the saponified characteristics of some oils are. http://www.tlcsoaps.com/oilsapval.htm There are other charts out there. Just Google sap value or saponification chart. If you can locate a copy of The Soapmaker's Companion, by Susan Miller Cavitch, published by Storey Books, you'll find most of your answers to soapmaking, a vast percentage of which are equally applicable to making biodiesel. It's well worth the coin. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 1:48 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Soap Hi all, The more I read the messages about soap making, the more I realize that I don't understand the principle of soap making. Can anybody tell me (or give a link) what exactly is saponification ? Do only the FFA's saponify, or the total oil ? If this saponification is well known, why isn't it possible to find out how much lye is needed in an unknown oil (mixture) like WVO ? If somebody ever found out how much lye one needs to saponify (is that the right word ?) for example olive oil, how did he or she do that ? Can't we replicate that method with a mixture of used oils ? Mike wrote that coconut oil could dry out the skin if used to much. Why does it do that ? What happens ? Why doesn't olive oil do that ? Somewhere I also read, that glycerin moisturizes the skin, but if one would use to much in soap, it would work the other way round and dry out the skin. Why is that ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: Anti-Fossil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 3:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making I have been making my own soap for about 14 years now. The only real secret that I have found in regards to fantastic foaming action of your soaps is the inclusion of coconut oil (c.o.) in your recipe. I am aware that a few of the more popular websites, and even books written on the subject, warn against using too high a percentage of c.o. because of its drying effects on the skin. However, I keep the percentage of c.o. in my soap between 20% and 40%, and haven't had any problems with excessively dry skin. Common sense must also come in to play of course. If you start with dry skin, you would definitely want to stay on lower end of those percentages with c.o., and increase the hydrating oils like olive
Re: [biofuel] Soap from KoH derived glycerine
Hello Peter Hi Folks,Just joined up to your group and now produce my own biofuel using methanol and KoH, and have worked my formula down now to 160 ml of methanol and 12 grams of KoH, per liter which works for the used soy oil that I get locally.. Do you wash your biodiesel? However as many of you have the same problem of what to do with the risidual glycerine, or glycerol and I would like to lightly process the glycerol to make a nice liquid soap that I could sell back to the resturants, as most resturants now use liquid soap. It's not just glycerine, probably not even mostly glycerine. At that rate of KOH, depending on strength, you're titrating at about 5ml, right? Probably most of the by-product is FFA converted to soaps, plus glycerine, plus the catalyst, plus most of the excess methanol (though you don't have much of that, only 28% excess). Using KOH, the by-product should be liquid rather than solid, as it can be with NaOH. The problem is I cannot find any recipies to make a liquid, or a hard soap from my KoH derived glycerol.. KOH makes liquid soap. There's a recipe here: http://www.eline2000.com/eline/articles/barsoap/barsoap.htm Making bar soap from glycerin Looks like it probably works, you may have to experiment with the quantities recommended. I realize that the glycerol is dark but can't it be doctored up to make even a crude liquid soap.?? My thinking is that by selling them back liquid soap that they would have to buy anyway, I can offset my Methanol and KoH cost's considerably. Don't think I'd buy soap like that. Don't think I'd sell it either. Still, give it a try, tell us how you go. Best wishes Keith So any idea's on a liquid or a hard soap made from KoH glycerol...??? Peter Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Soap from KoH derived glycerine
Hi Folks,Just joined up to your group and now produce my own biofuel using methanol and KoH, and have worked my formula down now to 160 ml of methanol and 12 grams of KoH, per liter which works for the used soy oil that I get locally.. However as many of you have the same problem of what to do with the risidual glycerine, or glycerol and I would like to lightly process the glycerol to make a nice liquid soap that I could sell back to the resturants, as most resturants now use liquid soap. The problem is I cannot find any recipies to make a liquid, or a hard soap from my KoH derived glycerol.. I realize that the glycerol is dark but can't it be doctored up to make even a crude liquid soap.?? My thinking is that by selling them back liquid soap that they would have to buy anyway, I can offset my Methanol and KoH cost's considerably. So any idea's on a liquid or a hard soap made from KoH glycerol...??? Peter Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Soap Floaties in Biodiesel
Everyone, I made some small batches of bio-diesel about a month ago. Now when I look at them in the clear containers there are white floaties in the fuel which I believe to be soap. Is filtering the best way to remove these particles from the bio-diesel? If so what inexpensive methods would you recommend and where to look for the supplies to do it? Ben Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] soap in BD
Hi all Made a batch of BD and after letting it sit for a while ,put the BD in the wash tank and started to wash it and then went away for six hours only to find that the soap suds had over flown and ended up all over the floor This is the first time that this has happened to me . what happened to my BD from this batch and how can I fix my Bubbles so they don't bubble all over the floor again ??? I thought of reheating the BD and let it settle of a few days then scoop of the top layer again and re wash as per normal , would this work??? or is there some other trick to my BUBBLES ??? Martin R. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/Gi0tnD/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Soap product/glycerol$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Holy cow! I just saw concentrated liquid degreaser soap for sale at a discount store for US$4.80 a gallon! I had to pop the top to do a quick visual/nasal/tactile field test and to my surprise it was so similar to the waste product we are constantly trying to find a use for that I think I should open up a degreaser factory which produces biodiesel as a waste byproduct. I am going down to the local carwash today to see what they pay for the 50-100 gals of liquid soap they run through each week...and how similar it is to the stuff we are composting. Any suggestions? Dana Linscott __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
