Re: [Biofuel] Vaporized gasoline engines work as proven to theworldby Shell Oil Company in 1973
Are we talking about the hydrocarbon content on a honda before or after the catalytic converter? There is a big difference. The cat does a great job cleaning up the exhaust by re-burning this fuel after it has gone through engine combustion. This does nothing towards working to push the car down the road. This is a waste of energy! Again study propane, Propane turns from a liquid to a gasious state at 143F degrees Below zero. When it is in a pressurized tank the tank pressure is 172PSI when ambient air temperature is 100F degrees. Gasoline on the other hand does not completely vaporized unless it is heated to 300F to 400F degrees. Where is the disconnect here for you Kirk? Shell Oil was able to prove this technology back in 1973. Have you read my paper or any of the others at wwwByronWine.com or do you just believe whatever party line (lie) your fed? Do your own research and come back with some rebuttals with substance please. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk McLoren Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 11:26 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vaporized gasoline engines work as proven to theworldby Shell Oil Company in 1973 As you said - study propane. Doesnt get more vaporized than that. Running up to 35 mph and cutting the engine off and coasting to 10 and restarting the engine doesnt impress me either as NO ONE commutes to work that way. Just what do you think the unburned hydrocarbon content of for example a honda engine is? http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/14/1911225 Eco-Marathon Team Hits 2,843 mpg But - it has little relevance to everyday life. Carnot had a little bit to say about the reality of fantastic claims. Only so much energy in a gallon - even in a fuel cell which trumps your combustion engine. Kirk Mike Pelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Modern engines combust quite well?, than why the unburned hydrocarbons out the tailpipe and the need for catalytic converters? And was Shell Oil only blowing a whole lot of smoke back in 1973 when they were able to stretch 376 MPGs out of that 1959 Opel? Sorry Kirk but your going to have to do a better job than that to dispel this one. I know we have been getting fed a whole lot of bunk about this by the oil and auto companies since back 70 years ago when Charles Pogue first made this advancement famous but these are different times we are living in. Lets quit the BS'ing and take all measures we have available to address our Global Climate Change problem. Either attempt to re-enact this experiment yourself or shut up already and quit doing the bidding for the oil companies. It's real get over it. Vaporized gasoline mixes much more completely with air than sprayed liquid gasoline. Heating gasoline sufficiently turns it to a vapor. If you don't believe this than study propane carburation. Same thing just a few hundred degrees difference in properties. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk McLoren Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:12 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vaporized gasoline engines work as proven to theworld by Shell Oil Company in 1973 The level of unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust tells you beyond a shadow of a doubt whether more perfect combustion can help. Period- the end. No amount of claims and mouse milk can alter this fact - which should be intuitively obvious. Modern engines combust quite well. Kirk John Mullan wrote: How does one vaporize all the different components in today's gasoline? Don't all those additives and stuff complicate the situation? John Mike Pelly wrote: We did tests on Vaporized Gasoline carburation on a datsun/nissan 510 and the gas milage results were not all that impressive. We were not able to do any kind of test on a track or somewhere where we could drive flat and straight on a carefully measured amount of gas. In our estimate on our most careful test at the time (1992), we ended up getting about 35mpg on a car that normally got about 28. When doing this test we had (at times) everything dialed in and were able to maintain the proper temperatures and the Exhaust smelled exactly like the exhaust from a Propane Powered Vehicle (this car did not have any cataletic converter on it either. Other times while doing this same test, we did not have our temperatures correct and the car was belching copious amounts of black exhaust (unburned gasoline) and was running like crap. In writing my original paper back in 1992 I recommended this technology would work best in a toyota prius type 'hybrid-electric' car (this was before they even were building the prius) or a stationary gas powered generator. The prius type drive train would work the best because it is easy to maintain an engine RPM range like 2000-2500RPMs somewhere making it
Re: [Biofuel] Vaporized gasoline engines work as proven to theworldby Shell Oil Company in 1973
I said propane is completely vaporised. You dont get 200 mpg with a propane conversion. Stop talking rubbish. Mike Pelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are we talking about the hydrocarbon content on a honda before or after the catalytic converter? There is a big difference. The cat does a great job cleaning up the exhaust by re-burning this fuel after it has gone through engine combustion. This does nothing towards working to push the car down the road. This is a waste of energy! Again study propane, Propane turns from a liquid to a gasious state at 143F degrees Below zero. When it is in a pressurized tank the tank pressure is 172PSI when ambient air temperature is 100F degrees. Gasoline on the other hand does not completely vaporized unless it is heated to 300F to 400F degrees. Where is the disconnect here for you Kirk? Shell Oil was able to prove this technology back in 1973. Have you read my paper or any of the others at wwwByronWine.com or do you just believe whatever party line (lie) your fed? Do your own research and come back with some rebuttals with substance please. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk McLoren Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 11:26 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vaporized gasoline engines work as proven to theworldby Shell Oil Company in 1973 As you said - study propane. Doesnt get more vaporized than that. Running up to 35 mph and cutting the engine off and coasting to 10 and restarting the engine doesnt impress me either as NO ONE commutes to work that way. Just what do you think the unburned hydrocarbon content of for example a honda engine is? http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/14/1911225 Eco-Marathon Team Hits 2,843 mpg But - it has little relevance to everyday life. Carnot had a little bit to say about the reality of fantastic claims. Only so much energy in a gallon - even in a fuel cell which trumps your combustion engine. Kirk Mike Pelly wrote: Modern engines combust quite well?, than why the unburned hydrocarbons out the tailpipe and the need for catalytic converters? And was Shell Oil only blowing a whole lot of smoke back in 1973 when they were able to stretch 376 MPGs out of that 1959 Opel? Sorry Kirk but your going to have to do a better job than that to dispel this one. I know we have been getting fed a whole lot of bunk about this by the oil and auto companies since back 70 years ago when Charles Pogue first made this advancement famous but these are different times we are living in. Lets quit the BS'ing and take all measures we have available to address our Global Climate Change problem. Either attempt to re-enact this experiment yourself or shut up already and quit doing the bidding for the oil companies. It's real get over it. Vaporized gasoline mixes much more completely with air than sprayed liquid gasoline. Heating gasoline sufficiently turns it to a vapor. If you don't believe this than study propane carburation. Same thing just a few hundred degrees difference in properties. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk McLoren Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:12 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vaporized gasoline engines work as proven to theworld by Shell Oil Company in 1973 The level of unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust tells you beyond a shadow of a doubt whether more perfect combustion can help. Period- the end. No amount of claims and mouse milk can alter this fact - which should be intuitively obvious. Modern engines combust quite well. Kirk John Mullan wrote: How does one vaporize all the different components in today's gasoline? Don't all those additives and stuff complicate the situation? John Mike Pelly wrote: We did tests on Vaporized Gasoline carburation on a datsun/nissan 510 and the gas milage results were not all that impressive. We were not able to do any kind of test on a track or somewhere where we could drive flat and straight on a carefully measured amount of gas. In our estimate on our most careful test at the time (1992), we ended up getting about 35mpg on a car that normally got about 28. When doing this test we had (at times) everything dialed in and were able to maintain the proper temperatures and the Exhaust smelled exactly like the exhaust from a Propane Powered Vehicle (this car did not have any cataletic converter on it either. Other times while doing this same test, we did not have our temperatures correct and the car was belching copious amounts of black exhaust (unburned gasoline) and was running like crap. In writing my original paper back in 1992 I recommended this technology would work best in a toyota prius type 'hybrid-electric' car (this was before they even were building the prius) or a stationary gas powered generator. The prius type drive train would work the best
