Paddy wrote:
Keith Todd - my real problem is 'how to make biodiesel without waste
products'. Any fool can make biodiesel.
I thought so, but I'm still not convinced you can.
It does'nt seem so easy to deal with
the waste water and glycerine, and as far as I know, nobody seems to have
come up with adequate solutions on the discussion groups. It is important
for me to get as much reliable info on the waste problem as possible
this is all I want to do! Has anybody got anything else to contribute?
Well, what have you contributed?
Anyway, I accept that this waffley and evasive answer is the best
we're going to get - obviously you can't answer the question.
Why do you think the three layers are not what Todd and I say they
are, and what do you think they are?
For no reason, and you don't have any alternative suggestion.
Anyway, what waste products? It's all been thoroughly discussed at
the Biofuel list and elsewhere. We think of co-products, not waste
products. But since you're in denial or something about neutralized
FFAs and can't be bothered to do the tests you yourself suggested to
satisfy your mysterious doubts, well then, struggle along with your
waste products, LOL!
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycsep.html
Separating glycerine/FFAs
As for the wash water, I remember you were party to a discussion on
the Biofuel list some while back about wash water. You got it into
your head that it's a severe problem and wouldn't listen to what
anyone else said. Once again, you're welcome, but the waste water is
a lot milder than most people's laundry water, especially if they
have an infant in diapers in the family, and is easily handled by a
simple greywater system.
Try another question: what is the purpose of titrating WVO before
transesterifying it?
Keith
OK Keith,
re: Why do you think the three layers are not what Todd and I say they
are, and what do you think they are? My main problem is with the bottom
layer - why is it so large and what is the oily substance that the catalyst
is associated with? I'm afraid I don't have any answers - only more
questions! I'll try and test the top layer and let you know what the results
are. I won't, however, be able to do this for a while as I'm pretty busy
with other things which have higher priorities, which is why I asked if
anybody had done it already as it would save me the bother.
Also, I hate to admit, I do like to see how ideas stand up to critiscism, so
don't take this personnally. The main thing is to get some lively
discussions going.
I don't take things personally, even when they're meant personally,
but I certainly have my opinions.
As with this.
You started this discussion (?) on another list, where I'd described
the three layers and how they're derived, and suggested the FFAs
might be suitable as diesel fuel, perhaps more so than straight
vegetable oil as it lacks the glycerine and it's less viscous.
This was your response:
I'm not sure what makes you think FFA's are less viscous than SVO. According
to the chemical data around, the fatty acids have a melting point of approx.
30 degrees C GREATER than their corresponding methyl ester. Many will be
solid at room temperature and oleic acid has a melting point of 13.4 degrees
C - so how can it be almost as thin as biodiesel? Is it because the FFA's
are dissolved in water? Also, would'nt it be more sensible to make biodiesel
out of them?
A confused exchange followed, where I posted this, among other things:
Viscosity comparison (the higher the number the more viscous):
Biodiesel 38
FFAs 41
Virgin Canola 59
Melting point:
FFAs: -3 deg C
WVO: -4 deg C
Virgin Canola: -9 deg C (winterized)
(The WVO is the same WVO which produced the FFAs.)
FFAs burn well, and no triglycerides to complicate things. No water,
mixes freely with biodiesel, and therefore I imagine with
petro-diesel or kerosene.
All of which is why I suggested it as a diesel fuel, before we got
distracted.
Then you asked me for chemical formulas:
... how would you
describe the difference between a free fatty acid (FFA) and a fatty acid
(FA), such as pure stearic acid? Please be precise - what is the chemical
formula? Does it have a COOH end group? What is the end group?
I posted quite a lot of information from good sources on FFAs and
biodiesel, since you didn't seem to understand it, and got this
response from you:
OK Kieth, I'll leave it here! But please don't send me lengthy details of
how to make biodiesel as there was a simple question that required a simple
answer. I'm not interested in your rambling, waffley and evasive answers!
So much for a lively discussion. I didn't take it personally, but I
did conclude you don't know how to make biodiesel.
And then you continued it here. And I still think you don't know how
to make biodiesel.
Keith
ps.Hope you all enjoyed reading the FFA report Paddy
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