Re: Fw: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
I remember someone else asked within the last few days or a week and the answer, as I remember, was "Unisol". Phil Bechtel [EMAIL PROTECTED] francisco j burgos wrote: Dear pals: Do any one knows the chemical name or trade name of red dye to color diesel fuel?. Tks, F. - Original Message - From: "Kenneth Kron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 4:42 AM Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol My dad used to work for a fuel station that sold off-road and on road fuel. He told me when they sold untaxed fuel and give you a container with enough dye to correctly dye the fuel you bought. Apparently they are audited for the amount of untaxed fuel they sell and the amount of red dye the consume with not much verification on exactly how these two items leave the premisies. kk Kirk McLoren wrote: I heard of a person who put red diesel in 5 gallon water bottles (lexan) and the sunlight caused the red dye to precipitate thus easily filterable. Lot of work I think to save a few bucks. Kirk Steve Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: don't get caught with red diesel in your tank. passenger vehicles don't usually get checked, though my buddy, Eddie, did with his diesel suburban. Steve Spence http://www.green-trust.org - Original Message - From: "Greg Harbican" To: Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 6:33 PM Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol Nothing says you couldn't do such, one thing to remember that the main difference is the additives, and that the slower running the Diesel engine is, the heavier the hydrocarbons ( and lower the cetane value of fuel ) that can be used, without to much problems. In theory, you could design a engine that ran on heavy crude oil, but, it would need to be a slow running engine. Diesel engines that run at higher RPMs, and Diesel engines that do a lot of speed changes ( low RPM / high RPM / low RPM / and high again, such as you find with around town driving ) needs a lighter hydrocarbon, and a higher cetane value for better performance. In theory a cetane value of about 45-50 is best for in city driving, although 40 would be fine for long distance hwy driving, 35 should be fine for a farm tractor and oil furnace use. Greg H. - Original Message - From: "Kirk McLoren" To: Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 15:52 Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol When I lived in Montana the local fuel supplier filled your winter tractor fuel tank and the oil stove tank from the same tank truck load. It was dyed red to stop its use on the highway. Kirk ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
F. - Original Message - From: "Leif Forer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 8:46 PM Subject: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol Do any one knows the chemical name or trade name of red dye to color diesel fuel?. Unisol. Tks, F. ~Leif --- Leif Forer Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop (919) 542-2900 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
diesel fuel?. Unisol. Tks, F. ~Leif --- Leif Forer Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop (919) 542-2900 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Fw: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
Do any one knows the chemical name or trade name of red dye to color diesel fuel?. Tks, F. - Original Message - From: "Kenneth Kron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 4:42 AM Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol My dad used to work for a fuel station that sold off-road and on road fuel. He told me when they sold untaxed fuel and give you a container with enough dye to correctly dye the fuel you bought. Apparently they are audited for the amount of untaxed fuel they sell and the amount of red dye the consume with not much verification on exactly how these two items leave the premisies. kk Kirk McLoren wrote: I heard of a person who put red diesel in 5 gallon water bottles (lexan) and the sunlight caused the red dye to precipitate thus easily filterable. Lot of work I think to save a few bucks. Kirk Steve Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: don't get caught with red diesel in your tank. passenger vehicles don't usually get checked, though my buddy, Eddie, did with his diesel suburban. Steve Spence http://www.green-trust.org - Original Message - From: "Greg Harbican" To: Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 6:33 PM Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol Nothing says you couldn't do such, one thing to remember that the main difference is the additives, and that the slower running the Diesel engine is, the heavier the hydrocarbons ( and lower the cetane value of fuel ) that can be used, without to much problems. In theory, you could design a engine that ran on heavy crude oil, but, it would need to be a slow running engine. Diesel engines that run at higher RPMs, and Diesel engines that do a lot of speed changes ( low RPM / high RPM / low RPM / and high again, such as you find with around town driving ) needs a lighter hydrocarbon, and a higher cetane value for better performance. In theory a cetane value of about 45-50 is best for in city driving, although 40 would be fine for long distance hwy driving, 35 should be fine for a farm tractor and oil furnace use. Greg H. - Original Message - From: "Kirk McLoren" To: Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 15:52 Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol When I lived in Montana the local fuel supplier filled your winter tractor fuel tank and the oil stove tank from the same tank truck load. It was dyed red to stop its use on the highway. Kirk ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
I've never seen the public given that option. Many people would find that too tempting. It is added at the refinery out here. Kirk Kenneth Kron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My dad used to work for a fuel station that sold off-road and on road fuel. He told me when they sold untaxed fuel and give you a container with enough dye to correctly dye the fuel you bought. Apparently they are audited for the amount of untaxed fuel they sell and the amount of red dye the consume with not much verification on exactly how these two items leave the premisies. kk Kirk McLoren wrote: >I heard of a person who put red diesel in 5 gallon water bottles (lexan) and >the sunlight caused the red dye to precipitate thus easily filterable. Lot of >work I think to save a few bucks. > >Kirk > >Steve Spence wrote: >don't get caught with red diesel in your tank. passenger vehicles don't >usually get checked, though my buddy, Eddie, did with his diesel suburban. > > >Steve Spence >http://www.green-trust.org >- Original Message - >From: "Greg Harbican" >To: >Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 6:33 PM >Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol > > > > >>Nothing says you couldn't do such, one thing to remember that the main >>difference is the additives, and that the slower running the Diesel engine >>is, the heavier the hydrocarbons ( and lower the cetane value of fuel ) >> >> >that > > >>can be used, without to much problems. In theory, you could design a >>engine that ran on heavy crude oil, but, it would need to be a slow >> >> >running > > >>engine. >> >>Diesel engines that run at higher RPMs, and Diesel engines that do a lot >> >> >of > > >>speed changes ( low RPM / high RPM / low RPM / and high again, such as you >>find with around town driving ) needs a lighter hydrocarbon, and a higher >>cetane value for better performance. In theory a cetane value of about >>45-50 is best for in city driving, although 40 would be fine for long >>distance hwy driving, 35 should be fine for a farm tractor and oil furnace >>use. >> >>Greg H. >> >>- Original Message - >>From: "Kirk McLoren" >>To: >>Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 15:52 >>Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol >> >> >> >> >>>When I lived in Montana the local fuel supplier filled your winter >>> >>> >tractor > > >>fuel tank and the oil stove tank from the same tank truck load. It was >> >> >dyed > > >>red to stop its use on the highway. >> >> >>>Kirk >>> >>> >>> >>___ >>Biofuel mailing list >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): >>http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ >> >> >> ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
fuel. He told me when they sold untaxed fuel and give you a container with enough dye to correctly dye the fuel you bought. Apparently they are audited for the amount of untaxed fuel they sell and the amount of red dye the consume with not much verification on exactly how these two items leave the premisies. kk Kirk McLoren wrote: I heard of a person who put red diesel in 5 gallon water bottles (lexan) and the sunlight caused the red dye to precipitate thus easily filterable. Lot of work I think to save a few bucks. Kirk Steve Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: don't get caught with red diesel in your tank. passenger vehicles don't usually get checked, though my buddy, Eddie, did with his diesel suburban. Steve Spence http://www.green-trust.org - Original Message - From: "Greg Harbican" To: Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 6:33 PM Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol Nothing says you couldn't do such, one thing to remember that the main difference is the additives, and that the slower running the Diesel engine is, the heavier the hydrocarbons ( and lower the cetane value of fuel ) that can be used, without to much problems. In theory, you could design a engine that ran on heavy crude oil, but, it would need to be a slow running engine. Diesel engines that run at higher RPMs, and Diesel engines that do a lot of speed changes ( low RPM / high RPM / low RPM / and high again, such as you find with around town driving ) needs a lighter hydrocarbon, and a higher cetane value for better performance. In theory a cetane value of about 45-50 is best for in city driving, although 40 would be fine for long distance hwy driving, 35 should be fine for a farm tractor and oil furnace use. Greg H. - Original Message - From: "Kirk McLoren" To: Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 15:52 Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol When I lived in Montana the local fuel supplier filled your winter tractor fuel tank and the oil stove tank from the same tank truck load. It was dyed red to stop its use on the highway. Kirk ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
I heard of a person who put red diesel in 5 gallon water bottles (lexan) and the sunlight caused the red dye to precipitate thus easily filterable. Lot of work I think to save a few bucks. Kirk Steve Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: don't get caught with red diesel in your tank. passenger vehicles don't usually get checked, though my buddy, Eddie, did with his diesel suburban. Steve Spence http://www.green-trust.org - Original Message - From: "Greg Harbican" To: Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 6:33 PM Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol > Nothing says you couldn't do such, one thing to remember that the main > difference is the additives, and that the slower running the Diesel engine > is, the heavier the hydrocarbons ( and lower the cetane value of fuel ) that > can be used, without to much problems. In theory, you could design a > engine that ran on heavy crude oil, but, it would need to be a slow running > engine. > > Diesel engines that run at higher RPMs, and Diesel engines that do a lot of > speed changes ( low RPM / high RPM / low RPM / and high again, such as you > find with around town driving ) needs a lighter hydrocarbon, and a higher > cetane value for better performance. In theory a cetane value of about > 45-50 is best for in city driving, although 40 would be fine for long > distance hwy driving, 35 should be fine for a farm tractor and oil furnace > use. > > Greg H. > > - Original Message - > From: "Kirk McLoren" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 15:52 > Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol > > > > When I lived in Montana the local fuel supplier filled your winter tractor > fuel tank and the oil stove tank from the same tank truck load. It was dyed > red to stop its use on the highway. > > > > Kirk > > > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
True, I'm not saying it should be done, only it has been done plenty of times. I personally wouldn't do it, due to the quality control with the furnace fuel, which doesn't meet any real standard other than combustion ability. Even sulfur can be higher than with road and off road diesel. Greg H. - Original Message - From: "Steve Spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 16:55 Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol > don't get caught with red diesel in your tank. passenger vehicles don't > usually get checked, though my buddy, Eddie, did with his diesel suburban. > > ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
I should probably mention that one web site I visited, said that furnace fuel oil, diesel for trucks, vehicles, and sometimes kerosene generally all come from the same pipe coming into town and gasoline comes out of the other pipe(s).The various companies then add their various additives to make meet their specifications for regular unleaded, super unleaded, premium unleaded, silver grade, gold grade, platinum grade or what ever else that set's it apart from what comes out of the pipe.The same thing goes for diesel, while they may call it by what ever proprietary name they give it, in the summer it is normally #2, and in the winter ( in cold regions ) generally it is a 50/50 blend of #1 and #2 (and they call it winterized ), with company additives added to it. It is just pumped into the pipe at different times, and what they do is, they test what is coming out at the receiving end and when it meets certain standards, they put a new label on it, saving the worst of the mixed fuel for the furnace.That is why the diesel at the pump varies in composition so much.Some things they adjust like the cetane rating by the addition of various chemicals ( including the red dye for non taxable use year round ), that is why Diesel #1 and #2 vary mostly by the lubrication value. Greg H. - Original Message - From: "Greg Harbican" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 16:33 Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol > Nothing says you couldn't do such, one thing to remember that the main > difference is the additives, and that the slower running the Diesel engine > is, the heavier the hydrocarbons ( and lower the cetane value of fuel ) that > can be used, without to much problems.In theory, you could design a > engine that ran on heavy crude oil, but, it would need to be a slow running > engine. > > Diesel engines that run at higher RPMs, and Diesel engines that do a lot of > speed changes ( low RPM / high RPM / low RPM / and high again, such as you > find with around town driving ) needs a lighter hydrocarbon, and a higher > cetane value for better performance.In theory a cetane value of about > 45-50 is best for in city driving, although 40 would be fine for long > distance hwy driving, 35 should be fine for a farm tractor and oil furnace > use. > > Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
don't get caught with red diesel in your tank. passenger vehicles don't usually get checked, though my buddy, Eddie, did with his diesel suburban. Steve Spence http://www.green-trust.org - Original Message - From: "Greg Harbican" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 6:33 PM Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol > Nothing says you couldn't do such, one thing to remember that the main > difference is the additives, and that the slower running the Diesel engine > is, the heavier the hydrocarbons ( and lower the cetane value of fuel ) that > can be used, without to much problems.In theory, you could design a > engine that ran on heavy crude oil, but, it would need to be a slow running > engine. > > Diesel engines that run at higher RPMs, and Diesel engines that do a lot of > speed changes ( low RPM / high RPM / low RPM / and high again, such as you > find with around town driving ) needs a lighter hydrocarbon, and a higher > cetane value for better performance.In theory a cetane value of about > 45-50 is best for in city driving, although 40 would be fine for long > distance hwy driving, 35 should be fine for a farm tractor and oil furnace > use. > > Greg H. > > - Original Message - > From: "Kirk McLoren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 15:52 > Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol > > > > When I lived in Montana the local fuel supplier filled your winter tractor > fuel tank and the oil stove tank from the same tank truck load. It was dyed > red to stop its use on the highway. > > > > Kirk > > > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
Nothing says you couldn't do such, one thing to remember that the main difference is the additives, and that the slower running the Diesel engine is, the heavier the hydrocarbons ( and lower the cetane value of fuel ) that can be used, without to much problems.In theory, you could design a engine that ran on heavy crude oil, but, it would need to be a slow running engine. Diesel engines that run at higher RPMs, and Diesel engines that do a lot of speed changes ( low RPM / high RPM / low RPM / and high again, such as you find with around town driving ) needs a lighter hydrocarbon, and a higher cetane value for better performance.In theory a cetane value of about 45-50 is best for in city driving, although 40 would be fine for long distance hwy driving, 35 should be fine for a farm tractor and oil furnace use. Greg H. - Original Message - From: "Kirk McLoren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 15:52 Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol > When I lived in Montana the local fuel supplier filled your winter tractor fuel tank and the oil stove tank from the same tank truck load. It was dyed red to stop its use on the highway. > > Kirk > ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
When I lived in Montana the local fuel supplier filled your winter tractor fuel tank and the oil stove tank from the same tank truck load. It was dyed red to stop its use on the highway. Kirk Greg Harbican <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Furnace oil, is Diesel #4, with anti-biological additives added, to keep bacteria down during the summer months when it just sits in the tank instead of being used. Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
Furnace oil, is Diesel #4, with anti-biological additives added, to keep bacteria down during the summer months when it just sits in the tank instead of being used. Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
stove oil is winter diesel. Kerosine is too light. even winter diesel benefits from lubrication additives. Kirk Brian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Actually, I was wondering this as well. There is a station close by that sells kerosene. In winter in Indiana (though I won't be here for the worst of it, probably), it is not wise to run B100. However, would the improved lubricity of biodiesel make a B20 kerosene blend a viable alternative which would not harm my engine? Brian - Original Message - From: "Martin Klingensmith" To: Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 4:32 PM Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol >> Any diesel engine will run on kerosene. Now that >> diesel is $2.15 per gallon in the US I'm running >> kerosene in my Jetta diesel. $1.59 per gallon. It's >> illegal but I don't really care about that. >> > > Do you know how the lubricity compares between the two? > > -- > Martin Klingensmith > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
sells kerosene. In winter in Indiana (though I won't be here for the worst of it, probably), it is not wise to run B100. However, would the improved lubricity of biodiesel make a B20 kerosene blend a viable alternative which would not harm my engine? Brian - Original Message - From: "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 4:32 PM Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol Any diesel engine will run on kerosene. Now that diesel is $2.15 per gallon in the US I'm running kerosene in my Jetta diesel. $1.59 per gallon. It's illegal but I don't really care about that. Do you know how the lubricity compares between the two? -- Martin Klingensmith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
- Original Message - From: "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 15:32 Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol > > Any diesel engine will run on kerosene. Now that > > diesel is $2.15 per gallon in the US I'm running > > kerosene in my Jetta diesel. $1.59 per gallon. It's > > illegal but I don't really care about that. > > > > Do you know how the lubricity compares between the two? > > -- > Martin Klingensmith As much as I have looked at and for lubrication numbers for Kerosene, Diesel #1, and Diesel#2 in the last 6 months, the lubrication value of kerosene is not normally published / hard to find ( and they don't always agree when you can find them ), because it is not used 'normally' as a substitute for Diesel. The owners manual for my Toyota Land Cruiser says that if Diesel #2 is not available or if during winter winterized Diesel #2 is not available, a 50/50 blend of Diesel #1 and Diesel #2 is an acceptable substitute and Diesel #1 only if nothing else was available, if the Diesel #1 & #2 mix is not available in winter, as a last resort, you can mix kerosene with the Diesel #2, but, no more than 30% kerosene otherwise excessive engine wear will occur. This tells me that the lube value for kerosene is allot lower than even the lube value for Diesel#1. I know for a fact that people doing lapidary work use deodorized kerosene as a 'wetting' agent, when cutting and polishing rocks. This in it's self shows that kerosene was not meant to lubricate, because in that situation you want the friction to cut/polish. Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
in a word, NO.
Say goodbye to your injectors and pump.
Steve Spence
http://www.green-trust.org
- Original Message -
From: "Ken Riznyk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
> Any diesel engine will run on kerosene. Now that
> diesel is $2.15 per gallon in the US I'm running
> kerosene in my Jetta diesel. $1.59 per gallon. It's
> illegal but I don't really care about that.
>
> --- Gasman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hello Phil,
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:09 PM
> > Subject: RE: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing
> > Government/Now ethanol
> >
> >
> > > Hello Phil
> > >
> > > >Hello all!
> > > >
> > > >Is there anyone out there who has tried running a
> > petrol motor on
> > > >paraffin? I know the timing needs retarding and
> > that performance is
> > > >terrible, but here in Africa, the fuel is very,
> > very cheap.
> > >
> > > I'm told it's done in Sri Lanka, probably in other
> > countries. Maybe
> > > they start up on petrol (gasoline) ("in America
> > they haven't spoken
> > > it for years"), but anyway they run a paraffin
> > (kerosene) fuel line
> > > round the exhaust manifold to heat it up first. I
> > think that means
> > > "hot", not just "warm". I guess they know just how
> > to do it, and how
> > > not to do it too - probably not something to chuck
> > guesses at.
> >
> > We used to have many such engines in India called
> > kero engines which were
> > fitted to motorbikes, mainly because of subsidised
> > kerosene. One peculiarity
> > I noticed was that the engine continued to fire
> > slowly and intermitently
> > long after the ignition was switched off.
> >
> > > No, you certainly didn't ever hear such a thing
> > from me, definitely not,
> > no.
> > >
> > > >What are the environmental implications of
> > burning the stuff and
> > > >implications for engine life?
> >
> > > Dire, probably, on both counts.
> > >
> > > Best wishes
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> >
> > > >Phil Rendel
> > > >English Department
> > > >Kingswood College,
> > > >Burton Street,
> > > >Grahamstown
> > > >tel. 046 603 6600
> > > >fax. 046 622 3084
> > > >cell: 084 448 1052
> > >
> > >
> > Regards
> > balaji
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello Phil!
> >
> > If you wish, and Keith allows us to talk in depth
> > about how to arrange
> > a petrol (gasoline) motor to work smoothly on motor
> > paraffin (kerosene),
> > I can offer you my experience of 13 years and over
> > 100.000 km with two
> > of my cars. Both driven by "motorpetroleum" and
> > water"injection" (actually
> > suctioned by the motor itself, the same way as the
> > fuel).
> >
> >
> > Max Gasman
> >
> > ___
> > Biofuel mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
> > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
> >
>
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
> Any diesel engine will run on kerosene. Now that > diesel is $2.15 per gallon in the US I'm running > kerosene in my Jetta diesel. $1.59 per gallon. It's > illegal but I don't really care about that. > Do you know how the lubricity compares between the two? -- Martin Klingensmith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
- Original Message - From: "Ken Riznyk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 22:26 Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol > Any diesel engine will run on kerosene. Now that > diesel is $2.15 per gallon in the US I'm running > kerosene in my Jetta diesel. $1.59 per gallon. It's > illegal but I don't really care about that. > Ken, You have a problem developing. Kerosene does not have the same lubricating properties as diesel, running on kerosene, you are going to cause engine damage - in if or maybe, but you will.Compared to even Diesel #1 it is dry when it comes to lubrication. Mix it with BioDiesel, even DinoDiesel, at minimum of 2 diesel for 1 kerosene ratio ( and your better off at a 4 to 1 ratio ), but without the lubrication that kerosene does not have - and diesel of any form provides, you will kill your fuel pump, and likely your fuel injectors, and when that happens, the cost of repairs will make you wish you had been running the diesel at $2.15 a gallon all along. Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
Any diesel engine will run on kerosene. Now that
diesel is $2.15 per gallon in the US I'm running
kerosene in my Jetta diesel. $1.59 per gallon. It's
illegal but I don't really care about that.
--- Gasman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Phil,
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:09 PM
> Subject: RE: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing
> Government/Now ethanol
>
>
> > Hello Phil
> >
> > >Hello all!
> > >
> > >Is there anyone out there who has tried running a
> petrol motor on
> > >paraffin? I know the timing needs retarding and
> that performance is
> > >terrible, but here in Africa, the fuel is very,
> very cheap.
> >
> > I'm told it's done in Sri Lanka, probably in other
> countries. Maybe
> > they start up on petrol (gasoline) ("in America
> they haven't spoken
> > it for years"), but anyway they run a paraffin
> (kerosene) fuel line
> > round the exhaust manifold to heat it up first. I
> think that means
> > "hot", not just "warm". I guess they know just how
> to do it, and how
> > not to do it too - probably not something to chuck
> guesses at.
>
> We used to have many such engines in India called
> kero engines which were
> fitted to motorbikes, mainly because of subsidised
> kerosene. One peculiarity
> I noticed was that the engine continued to fire
> slowly and intermitently
> long after the ignition was switched off.
>
> > No, you certainly didn't ever hear such a thing
> from me, definitely not,
> no.
> >
> > >What are the environmental implications of
> burning the stuff and
> > >implications for engine life?
>
> > Dire, probably, on both counts.
> >
> > Best wishes
> >
> > Keith
> >
>
> > >Phil Rendel
> > >English Department
> > >Kingswood College,
> > >Burton Street,
> > >Grahamstown
> > >tel. 046 603 6600
> > >fax. 046 622 3084
> > >cell: 084 448 1052
> >
> >
> Regards
> balaji
>
>
>
> Hello Phil!
>
> If you wish, and Keith allows us to talk in depth
> about how to arrange
> a petrol (gasoline) motor to work smoothly on motor
> paraffin (kerosene),
> I can offer you my experience of 13 years and over
> 100.000 km with two
> of my cars. Both driven by "motorpetroleum" and
> water"injection" (actually
> suctioned by the motor itself, the same way as the
> fuel).
>
>
> Max Gasman
>
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
>
___
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Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
Dear pal: I would be delighted to learn about your technique on how to arrange a petrol (gasoline) motor to work smoothly on motor paraffin (kerosene). Thanks in advance, F. - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 8:29 AM Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol Hello Max Hello Phil! If you wish, and Keith allows us to talk in depth about how to arrange a petrol (gasoline) motor to work smoothly on motor paraffin (kerosene), I can offer you my experience of 13 years and over 100.000 km with two of my cars. Both driven by "motorpetroleum" and water"injection" (actually suctioned by the motor itself, the same way as the fuel). You certainly don't need me to allow you, nor anyone else. I know you have an interesting story to tell, please go right ahead. Best wishes Keith Max Gasman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
Hello Phil! If you wish, and Keith allows us to talk in depth about how to arrange a petrol (gasoline) motor to work smoothly on motor paraffin (kerosene), I can offer you my experience of 13 years and over 100.000 km with two of my cars. Both driven by "motorpetroleum" and water"injection" (actually suctioned by the motor itself, the same way as the fuel). You certainly don't need me to allow you, nor anyone else. I know you have an interesting story to tell, please go right ahead. Best wishes Keith Max Gasman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
Hello Phil,
- Original Message -
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:09 PM
Subject: RE: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
> Hello Phil
>
> >Hello all!
> >
> >Is there anyone out there who has tried running a petrol motor on
> >paraffin? I know the timing needs retarding and that performance is
> >terrible, but here in Africa, the fuel is very, very cheap.
>
> I'm told it's done in Sri Lanka, probably in other countries. Maybe
> they start up on petrol (gasoline) ("in America they haven't spoken
> it for years"), but anyway they run a paraffin (kerosene) fuel line
> round the exhaust manifold to heat it up first. I think that means
> "hot", not just "warm". I guess they know just how to do it, and how
> not to do it too - probably not something to chuck guesses at.
We used to have many such engines in India called kero engines which were
fitted to motorbikes, mainly because of subsidised kerosene. One peculiarity
I noticed was that the engine continued to fire slowly and intermitently
long after the ignition was switched off.
> No, you certainly didn't ever hear such a thing from me, definitely not,
no.
>
> >What are the environmental implications of burning the stuff and
> >implications for engine life?
> Dire, probably, on both counts.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith
>
> >Phil Rendel
> >English Department
> >Kingswood College,
> >Burton Street,
> >Grahamstown
> >tel. 046 603 6600
> >fax. 046 622 3084
> >cell: 084 448 1052
>
>
Regards
balaji
Hello Phil!
If you wish, and Keith allows us to talk in depth about how to arrange
a petrol (gasoline) motor to work smoothly on motor paraffin (kerosene),
I can offer you my experience of 13 years and over 100.000 km with two
of my cars. Both driven by "motorpetroleum" and water"injection" (actually
suctioned by the motor itself, the same way as the fuel).
Max Gasman
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Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
Hello Phil,
- Original Message -
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:09 PM
Subject: RE: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
> Hello Phil
>
> >Hello all!
> >
> >Is there anyone out there who has tried running a petrol motor on
> >paraffin? I know the timing needs retarding and that performance is
> >terrible, but here in Africa, the fuel is very, very cheap.
>
> I'm told it's done in Sri Lanka, probably in other countries. Maybe
> they start up on petrol (gasoline) ("in America they haven't spoken
> it for years"), but anyway they run a paraffin (kerosene) fuel line
> round the exhaust manifold to heat it up first. I think that means
> "hot", not just "warm". I guess they know just how to do it, and how
> not to do it too - probably not something to chuck guesses at.
We used to have many such engines in India called kero engines which were
fitted to motorbikes, mainly because of subsidised kerosene. One peculiarity
I noticed was that the engine continued to fire slowly and intermitently
long after the ignition was switched off.
> No, you certainly didn't ever hear such a thing from me, definitely not,
no.
>
> >What are the environmental implications of burning the stuff and
> >implications for engine life?
> Dire, probably, on both counts.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith
>
> >Phil Rendel
> >English Department
> >Kingswood College,
> >Burton Street,
> >Grahamstown
> >tel. 046 603 6600
> >fax. 046 622 3084
> >cell: 084 448 1052
>
>
Regards
balaji
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RE: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
Hello all!
Is there anyone out there who has tried running a petrol motor on
paraffin? I know the timing needs retarding and that performance is
terrible, but here in Africa, the fuel is very, very cheap.
I'm told it's done in Sri Lanka, probably in other countries. Maybe
they start up on petrol (gasoline) ("in America they haven't spoken
it for years"), but anyway they run a paraffin (kerosene) fuel line
round the exhaust manifold to heat it up first. I think that means
"hot", not just "warm". I guess they know just how to do it, and how
not to do it too - probably not something to chuck guesses at.
No, you certainly didn't ever hear such a thing from me, definitely not, no.
What are the environmental implications of burning the stuff and
implications for engine life?
Dire, probably, on both counts.
Best wishes
Keith
Phil Rendel
English Department
Kingswood College,
Burton Street,
Grahamstown
tel. 046 603 6600
fax. 046 622 3084
cell: 084 448 1052
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RE: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
Ordinary "petrol motors" need fuel which is both volatile and resistant to detonation or "knocking". Kerosene is neither. Its use is disastrous for engine life and I surmise for pollutant emissions. Kerosene can be used in specially designed, usually rather expensive piston internal combustion engines, for example the "multi-fuel" engines which were used in military vehicles for some time by both NATO countries and the Warsaw Pact. These used injection pumps which would imply a need for clean fuel free from abrasives. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Thu, 23 Sep 2004, Phil Rendell wrote: > Hello all! > > Is there anyone out there who has tried running a petrol motor on paraffin? > I know the timing needs retarding and that performance is terrible, but here > in Africa, the fuel is very, very cheap. > > What are the environmental implications of burning the stuff and implications > for engine life? > > Phil Rendel > English Department > Kingswood College, > Burton Street, > Grahamstown > tel. 046 603 6600 > fax. 046 622 3084 > cell: 084 448 1052 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
Environmental problems for kerosene (paraffin to you, we think paraffin is something you can jellies with) are the same as gasoline and diesel. It's a finite fossil fuel that produces pollution and green house gases. Why not do yourself a favor, and run ethanol in that petrol engine, or get a diesel and run biodiesel or veggie oil. - Original Message - From: "Phil Rendell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 5:10 AM Subject: RE: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol Hello all! Is there anyone out there who has tried running a petrol motor on paraffin? I know the timing needs retarding and that performance is terrible, but here in Africa, the fuel is very, very cheap. What are the environmental implications of burning the stuff and implications for engine life? Phil Rendel English Department Kingswood College, Burton Street, Grahamstown tel. 046 603 6600 fax. 046 622 3084 cell: 084 448 1052 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: 20 September 2004 08:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol >Ken. > >Please take a look at >http://www.eesi.org/programs/agriculture/Energy%20Balance%20update.htm >on Biofuels: energy balance. >Hans Very nice too Hans, thanks. There's also this: http://www.mda.state.mn.us/Ethanol/balance.html Energy Balance/Life Cycle Inventory for Ethanol, Biodiesel and Petroleum Fuels And a whole lot more here: http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html Is ethanol energy-efficient? Best Keith >- Original Message - >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:01 AM >Subject: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol > > > > > The reason the government is promoting ethanol > > > production is because of the farm lobby. In general > > > the production of ethanol is an energy loss. The > > > fossil fuels used to plow, fertilize, ferment and > > > distill ethanol require the input of more energy than > > > is obtained from the ethanol produced. > > > Ken > > == > > Sorry Ken, but your data is about 24 years behind the times. I believe it > > was a 1980 paper from Cornell U. or something similiar, that mentioned > > that ethanol was energy negative. Some things never want to die. > > > > I remember stopping in Madison Wisconsin to gas up on my way to Chicago a > > few years ago. I pulled into a gas station and the gas station attendant > > noticed my Minnesota lic. plates (read: 10% ethanol). He proudly > > proclaimed that his gas had none of that worthless ethanol in it. I asked > > him what his feelings were about ethanol and he said it ruins engines. I > > said, "Reeeally, I have over 200,000 miles on my truck and never had a > > problem with the engine." He then asked me for the money owed for the gas > > and that was the end of that. 8~) > > > > Maybe ethanol isn't going to reduce oil dependency, but it will replace > > the use of Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE). I believe 3.3 billion > > gallons yearly of ethanol are being produced now. To replace all the nasty > > MTBE put in gas in the USA, they'll need another 11-12 billion gallons of > > ethanol for a 10% mix. > > > > When people live in California where MTBE is manufactured and they have to > > quit using it and ship in tank cars of ethanolthey will complain. > > What's surprising is that California politicians that scream about taking > > care of the environment also don't want to ban the nasty MTBE and resort > > to "importing" ethanol. Let them eat cake. > > > > Ron B. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
Hello all! Is there anyone out there who has tried running a petrol motor on paraffin? I know the timing needs retarding and that performance is terrible, but here in Africa, the fuel is very, very cheap. What are the environmental implications of burning the stuff and implications for engine life? Phil Rendel English Department Kingswood College, Burton Street, Grahamstown tel. 046 603 6600 fax. 046 622 3084 cell: 084 448 1052 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: 20 September 2004 08:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol >Ken. > >Please take a look at >http://www.eesi.org/programs/agriculture/Energy%20Balance%20update.htm >on Biofuels: energy balance. >Hans Very nice too Hans, thanks. There's also this: http://www.mda.state.mn.us/Ethanol/balance.html Energy Balance/Life Cycle Inventory for Ethanol, Biodiesel and Petroleum Fuels And a whole lot more here: http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html Is ethanol energy-efficient? Best Keith >- Original Message - >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:01 AM >Subject: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol > > > > > The reason the government is promoting ethanol > > > production is because of the farm lobby. In general > > > the production of ethanol is an energy loss. The > > > fossil fuels used to plow, fertilize, ferment and > > > distill ethanol require the input of more energy than > > > is obtained from the ethanol produced. > > > Ken > > == > > Sorry Ken, but your data is about 24 years behind the times. I believe it > > was a 1980 paper from Cornell U. or something similiar, that mentioned > > that ethanol was energy negative. Some things never want to die. > > > > I remember stopping in Madison Wisconsin to gas up on my way to Chicago a > > few years ago. I pulled into a gas station and the gas station attendant > > noticed my Minnesota lic. plates (read: 10% ethanol). He proudly > > proclaimed that his gas had none of that worthless ethanol in it. I asked > > him what his feelings were about ethanol and he said it ruins engines. I > > said, "Reeeally, I have over 200,000 miles on my truck and never had a > > problem with the engine." He then asked me for the money owed for the gas > > and that was the end of that. 8~) > > > > Maybe ethanol isn't going to reduce oil dependency, but it will replace > > the use of Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE). I believe 3.3 billion > > gallons yearly of ethanol are being produced now. To replace all the nasty > > MTBE put in gas in the USA, they'll need another 11-12 billion gallons of > > ethanol for a 10% mix. > > > > When people live in California where MTBE is manufactured and they have to > > quit using it and ship in tank cars of ethanolthey will complain. > > What's surprising is that California politicians that scream about taking > > care of the environment also don't want to ban the nasty MTBE and resort > > to "importing" ethanol. Let them eat cake. > > > > Ron B. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
Thank you Keith. Very helpful. Hans. - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol > >Ken. > > > >Please take a look at > >http://www.eesi.org/programs/agriculture/Energy%20Balance%20update.htm > >on Biofuels: energy balance. > >Hans > > Very nice too Hans, thanks. > > There's also this: > > http://www.mda.state.mn.us/Ethanol/balance.html > Energy Balance/Life Cycle Inventory for Ethanol, Biodiesel and Petroleum Fuels > > And a whole lot more here: > > http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html > Is ethanol energy-efficient? > > Best > > Keith > > > >- Original Message ----- > >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:01 AM > >Subject: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol > > > > > > > > The reason the government is promoting ethanol > > > > production is because of the farm lobby. In general > > > > the production of ethanol is an energy loss. The > > > > fossil fuels used to plow, fertilize, ferment and > > > > distill ethanol require the input of more energy than > > > > is obtained from the ethanol produced. > > > > Ken > > > == > > > Sorry Ken, but your data is about 24 years behind the times. I believe it > > > was a 1980 paper from Cornell U. or something similiar, that mentioned > > > that ethanol was energy negative. Some things never want to die. > > > > > > I remember stopping in Madison Wisconsin to gas up on my way to Chicago a > > > few years ago. I pulled into a gas station and the gas station attendant > > > noticed my Minnesota lic. plates (read: 10% ethanol). He proudly > > > proclaimed that his gas had none of that worthless ethanol in it. I asked > > > him what his feelings were about ethanol and he said it ruins engines. I > > > said, "Reeeally, I have over 200,000 miles on my truck and never had a > > > problem with the engine." He then asked me for the money owed for the gas > > > and that was the end of that. 8~) > > > > > > Maybe ethanol isn't going to reduce oil dependency, but it will replace > > > the use of Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE). I believe 3.3 billion > > > gallons yearly of ethanol are being produced now. To replace all the nasty > > > MTBE put in gas in the USA, they'll need another 11-12 billion gallons of > > > ethanol for a 10% mix. > > > > > > When people live in California where MTBE is manufactured and they have to > > > quit using it and ship in tank cars of ethanolthey will complain. > > > What's surprising is that California politicians that scream about taking > > > care of the environment also don't want to ban the nasty MTBE and resort > > > to "importing" ethanol. Let them eat cake. > > > > > > Ron B. > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
Please take a look at http://www.eesi.org/programs/agriculture/Energy%20Balance%20update.htm on Biofuels: energy balance. Hans Very nice too Hans, thanks. There's also this: http://www.mda.state.mn.us/Ethanol/balance.html Energy Balance/Life Cycle Inventory for Ethanol, Biodiesel and Petroleum Fuels And a whole lot more here: http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html Is ethanol energy-efficient? Best Keith - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:01 AM Subject: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol > > The reason the government is promoting ethanol > > production is because of the farm lobby. In general > > the production of ethanol is an energy loss. The > > fossil fuels used to plow, fertilize, ferment and > > distill ethanol require the input of more energy than > > is obtained from the ethanol produced. > > Ken > == > Sorry Ken, but your data is about 24 years behind the times. I believe it > was a 1980 paper from Cornell U. or something similiar, that mentioned > that ethanol was energy negative. Some things never want to die. > > I remember stopping in Madison Wisconsin to gas up on my way to Chicago a > few years ago. I pulled into a gas station and the gas station attendant > noticed my Minnesota lic. plates (read: 10% ethanol). He proudly > proclaimed that his gas had none of that worthless ethanol in it. I asked > him what his feelings were about ethanol and he said it ruins engines. I > said, "Reeeally, I have over 200,000 miles on my truck and never had a > problem with the engine." He then asked me for the money owed for the gas > and that was the end of that. 8~) > > Maybe ethanol isn't going to reduce oil dependency, but it will replace > the use of Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE). I believe 3.3 billion > gallons yearly of ethanol are being produced now. To replace all the nasty > MTBE put in gas in the USA, they'll need another 11-12 billion gallons of > ethanol for a 10% mix. > > When people live in California where MTBE is manufactured and they have to > quit using it and ship in tank cars of ethanolthey will complain. > What's surprising is that California politicians that scream about taking > care of the environment also don't want to ban the nasty MTBE and resort > to "importing" ethanol. Let them eat cake. > > Ron B. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
Ken. Please take a look at http://www.eesi.org/programs/agriculture/Energy%20Balance%20update.htm on Biofuels: energy balance. Hans - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:01 AM Subject: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol > > The reason the government is promoting ethanol > > production is because of the farm lobby. In general > > the production of ethanol is an energy loss. The > > fossil fuels used to plow, fertilize, ferment and > > distill ethanol require the input of more energy than > > is obtained from the ethanol produced. > > Ken > == > Sorry Ken, but your data is about 24 years behind the times. I believe it > was a 1980 paper from Cornell U. or something similiar, that mentioned > that ethanol was energy negative. Some things never want to die. > > I remember stopping in Madison Wisconsin to gas up on my way to Chicago a > few years ago. I pulled into a gas station and the gas station attendant > noticed my Minnesota lic. plates (read: 10% ethanol). He proudly > proclaimed that his gas had none of that worthless ethanol in it. I asked > him what his feelings were about ethanol and he said it ruins engines. I > said, "Reeeally, I have over 200,000 miles on my truck and never had a > problem with the engine." He then asked me for the money owed for the gas > and that was the end of that. 8~) > > Maybe ethanol isn't going to reduce oil dependency, but it will replace > the use of Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE). I believe 3.3 billion > gallons yearly of ethanol are being produced now. To replace all the nasty > MTBE put in gas in the USA, they'll need another 11-12 billion gallons of > ethanol for a 10% mix. > > When people live in California where MTBE is manufactured and they have to > quit using it and ship in tank cars of ethanolthey will complain. > What's surprising is that California politicians that scream about taking > care of the environment also don't want to ban the nasty MTBE and resort > to "importing" ethanol. Let them eat cake. > > Ron B. > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol
> The reason the government is promoting ethanol > production is because of the farm lobby. In general > the production of ethanol is an energy loss. The > fossil fuels used to plow, fertilize, ferment and > distill ethanol require the input of more energy than > is obtained from the ethanol produced. > Ken == Sorry Ken, but your data is about 24 years behind the times. I believe it was a 1980 paper from Cornell U. or something similiar, that mentioned that ethanol was energy negative. Some things never want to die. I remember stopping in Madison Wisconsin to gas up on my way to Chicago a few years ago. I pulled into a gas station and the gas station attendant noticed my Minnesota lic. plates (read: 10% ethanol). He proudly proclaimed that his gas had none of that worthless ethanol in it. I asked him what his feelings were about ethanol and he said it ruins engines. I said, "Reeeally, I have over 200,000 miles on my truck and never had a problem with the engine." He then asked me for the money owed for the gas and that was the end of that. 8~) Maybe ethanol isn't going to reduce oil dependency, but it will replace the use of Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE). I believe 3.3 billion gallons yearly of ethanol are being produced now. To replace all the nasty MTBE put in gas in the USA, they'll need another 11-12 billion gallons of ethanol for a 10% mix. When people live in California where MTBE is manufactured and they have to quit using it and ship in tank cars of ethanolthey will complain. What's surprising is that California politicians that scream about taking care of the environment also don't want to ban the nasty MTBE and resort to "importing" ethanol. Let them eat cake. Ron B. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
