[svg-developers] logo design
Suppose one has come into ownership of a company made from the fusion of N equally important little companies. Let us not worry how this strange fait accompli of plutocratic shenanigan may have come to pass - doubtless there was intrigue involved! Anyhow, it is important that none of the employees or managers of any of the N little companies feel slighted as we are given the task of designing a logo that represents each of the N logos fairly. By this, we require (for sake of keeping our designers from going mad) that a) All the little logos can be inscribed in a circle of area pi/N b) The new logo will be circular and subtend area pi. c) Yet instead of slicing the circle into N tiny slices (none of which is very suitable for displaying a logo inside), we wish each of the N slices, to be as close to circular as possible, but polygonal, so as not to waste space. By close to a circle, we mean that the proportion of overlap between the polygon in which each logo is inscribed and a circle should be maximal. (minimizing the proportion of non-overlap) Explanation: First, before you think of simply dividing a circle into pie slices, take a look at http://www.mathteacherctk.com/blog/2008/02/dividing-circular-area-into-equal -parts/ . Like pie slices, though, these shapes don't work well as shrink-wraps for logos! Packing circles within circles has been studied extensively (see Ron Graham's work on the subject at http://www.math.ucsd.edu/~ronspubs/98_01_circles.pdf or more modern inquiry, for example, at: http://hydra.nat.uni-magdeburg.de/packing/cci/d2.html _ Hence, we might consider importing the centers of the N circles found from an optimal packing at letting those become the centers of a Voronoi diagram. The problem though, is that the resulting polygons will not have equal area and for certain values of N (like 20, 23, 29, or 32) the asymmetry induced will result in large area and/or shape distortion near the edges of the circle. (packings tend to be more honeycomb like toward the center, with our corncobs more likely to miss teeth at the edges) Sometimes, like when N=31, the packing is hexagonally tight in the center. So what ideas might have you folks? Clearly the concept of packing the logos so they subtend equal areas, become more complicated as their individual geometries diverge from circular and from one another. I suspect that for N=4, four circular sectors (see http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CircularSegment.html ) would be more similar to the circle than would be a solution involving a single circle placed atop three triangular sectors. For five, however, the Zia sun sign would seem to be a more effective solution (for maximizing areas of the five logos) than five circular sectors which become awfully triangular (hence cropping out too much of each of the individual logos). For nine, the solution at http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/220161/divide-circle-into-9-pieces-o f-equal-area appears quite workable. So what would be a best design for 5, 6 or 7? Cheers David Note that we may rephrase the above with, instead of circles, arbitrary polygons. It then starts to look a bit like tiling polyominoes with congruent polyominoes (which you may google, if so inclined).
RE: /offlist RE: [svg-developers] RE: RE: Re: UUgle Map of Pologonia
Obviously an apology is in order. I was intending this venting of frustration to be considerably more private. Sorry to any and all. David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Dailey Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 9:27 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: /offlist RE: [svg-developers] RE: RE: Re: UUgle Map of Pologonia /offlist Hi Francis, My own experience has been that developing to work in both Opera and IE/ASV wasn’t too difficult since they both supported most of the SVG spec. Hence one didn’t need to spend hours fiddling with things only to determine that the browser didn’t do it yet. Gradually FF came to support many things as well (with Chrome and Safari lagging behind by a few years). The problem used to be though, that things that would work in Opera and IE and FF would later stop working in FF since the FF team would decide to either take a more rigid interpretation the spec or decide that some part of the spec was a bad idea in the first place. Now, of course, Opera has taken a giant step backward by abandoning all the good work they had done in SVG and now they are slightly more broken, it seems, than Chrome. With IE deciding finally to support SVG but not SMIL or SVG fonts, it handles scripted SVG quite well (and even handles a lot of filter stuff as long as there is no SMIL). I find myself very frustrated with Opera’s backward movement, Firefox’s recalcitrance about not supporting anything that isn’t 100% kosher, Chrome’s sluggishness to implement advanced features, and Apple and Microsoft’s general attitude of not really liking SVG in the first place. My frustration with the browsers and the SVG Working Group is rather high at the moment. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fhems...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 7:20 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] RE: RE: Re: UUgle Map of Pologonia I finally decided to address the cross-browser issue, and found why firefox was such a problem...I had no issues with Opera. Both Opera and IE natively find elements that contain an id value.( divs, buttons ,text, etc), which are considered public. Firefox however requires that the code specifically request an element that has the needed id. e.g. var myElement=document.getElementById(myElementIDValue) So my cross-browser issues have mostly gone away... A few cosmetic changes still required. --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, svg-developers@yahoogroups.com wrote: I think I should consider making this cross-browser:)...I just can't do this myself UGH! Is there anyone out there with an interest in such a task? Contact me off list, thanks Francis --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, svg-developers@yahoogroups.com wrote: When I go it says This is an Internet Explorer web application. So, you've lost me at the start. Why would you build an app in SVG that only works in IE? IE is about as popular as syphilis these days. I know well IE's characteristics required to build and introduce this web app. To make it cross-browser at this time, which to me is an agonizing task, is not worth the effort. Of course, if it gains serious traction, I'll hire someone to make it cross-browser. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
/offlist RE: [svg-developers] RE: RE: Re: UUgle Map of Pologonia
/offlist Hi Francis, My own experience has been that developing to work in both Opera and IE/ASV wasn’t too difficult since they both supported most of the SVG spec. Hence one didn’t need to spend hours fiddling with things only to determine that the browser didn’t do it yet. Gradually FF came to support many things as well (with Chrome and Safari lagging behind by a few years). The problem used to be though, that things that would work in Opera and IE and FF would later stop working in FF since the FF team would decide to either take a more rigid interpretation the spec or decide that some part of the spec was a bad idea in the first place. Now, of course, Opera has taken a giant step backward by abandoning all the good work they had done in SVG and now they are slightly more broken, it seems, than Chrome. With IE deciding finally to support SVG but not SMIL or SVG fonts, it handles scripted SVG quite well (and even handles a lot of filter stuff as long as there is no SMIL). I find myself very frustrated with Opera’s backward movement, Firefox’s recalcitrance about not supporting anything that isn’t 100% kosher, Chrome’s sluggishness to implement advanced features, and Apple and Microsoft’s general attitude of not really liking SVG in the first place. My frustration with the browsers and the SVG Working Group is rather high at the moment. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fhems...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 7:20 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] RE: RE: Re: UUgle Map of Pologonia I finally decided to address the cross-browser issue, and found why firefox was such a problem...I had no issues with Opera. Both Opera and IE natively find elements that contain an id value.( divs, buttons ,text, etc), which are considered public. Firefox however requires that the code specifically request an element that has the needed id. e.g. var myElement=document.getElementById(myElementIDValue) So my cross-browser issues have mostly gone away... A few cosmetic changes still required. --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, svg-developers@yahoogroups.com wrote: I think I should consider making this cross-browser:)...I just can't do this myself UGH! Is there anyone out there with an interest in such a task? Contact me off list, thanks Francis --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, svg-developers@yahoogroups.com wrote: When I go it says This is an Internet Explorer web application. So, you've lost me at the start. Why would you build an app in SVG that only works in IE? IE is about as popular as syphilis these days. I know well IE's characteristics required to build and introduce this web app. To make it cross-browser at this time, which to me is an agonizing task, is not worth the effort. Of course, if it gains serious traction, I'll hire someone to make it cross-browser. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
[svg-developers] descriptive geometry and Gaspard Monge
I had the occasion recently to look into Monge's theorem and stumbled into his work on drawing 3-D objects in 2D. It is that sort of late 18th century stuff that portends projective geometry and is well worth looking into, I think. There are a lot of those techniques that are very relevant nowadays. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descriptive_geometry In dealing with circles, I also found out about the problem of Apollonius of Perga (272-190 BC) who showed there were eight distinct circles tangent to any three non intersecting ones. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_Apollonius The SVG drawing illustrating the eight circles at the Wikipedia page is quite cleverly drawn (though the code could be greatly simplified!). The questions of how to make Venn diagrams that make the intersections maximally distinguishable to the [typical] human eye is a fascinating one that has received very little research (unless it has been done in secret!). I didn't learn this sort of geometry in school, so it's quite a bit of fun! Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] improved SVG text support in Firefox Nightly
Hi Cameron, Thanks for the work and thanks for the notice. It looks as though you’ve not yet implemented textLength=n and lengthAdjust=spacingAndGlyphs Those two would be high on my request list for next projects to undertake. Opera, Chrome, Safari and IE have all done them and it enables effects such as at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/text/ to have text resize relative to the browser window. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cameron McCormack Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 8:52 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] improved SVG text support in Firefox Nightly Hi svg-developers, Firefox Nightly has just gained an improved SVG text engine: http://mcc.id.au/blog/2013/07/firefox-svg-text-improvements These features are on track to be in Firefox 25. I encourage people to try out today's Nightly and to file bugs if you notice any problems. Happy underlining! :) Thanks, Cameron [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] The Graphical Web 2013
The deadline for submission of abstracts is June 24th for this conference October 21-23 in San Francisco. Mark it on your calendars and plan to attend. http://www.svgopen.org/2013/index.shtml#participate Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Wrapping Text in SVG 2
of the question of what I mean by much more. Regards David -Original Message- From: Doug Schepers [mailto:d...@schepers.cc] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 1:41 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Cc: David Dailey Subject: Re: [svg-developers] Wrapping Text in SVG 2 Hi, David- Thanks for the honest response. I'll try to address your comments as best I can, and I hope you can bear with me in detailing your issues so we can arrive at a mutual understanding of the situation. On 6/5/13 10:41 AM, David Dailey wrote: I suspect you already know that I’ll not be happy until much more is accomplished What do you mean by much more? Wrapping text to arbitrary shapes? That is also coming, but as part of a more complex proposal that will also hopefully be part of SVG 2 (but may be deferred a bit, since we are trying to be have an aggressive schedule to move SVG 2 forward). Simple CSS text wrapping is meant for the most common case, a basic rectangular area. and am rather dismayed that it has taken more than a decade to get even rudimentary text areas into SVG in a way that will work across browsers. Same here, which is why I'm trying as hard as I can to push this forward, and trying to drum up support for it, to illustrate to the browser vendors that this should be a priority. Coupling the fate of SVG with developments in CSS seems like putting the cart before the horse and seems to be slowing down progress in SVG. In my view, it's just the opposite (as I may have mentioned to you before). Here's a rationale: 1) We have limited people editing the specs for SVG; having people from the CSS WG edit specs increases both the number and the range of expertise of people available to edit (for example, Alan Stearns is an expert in arbitrary text-wrapping from years of work on InDesign, etc., and is editing the CSS Shapes spec, which SVG will use); 2) SVG is *much* less popular than CSS, and is therefore a much lower priority for implementers; by piggybacking on features defined in CSS, we increase the likelihood and the speed of initial implementation, and decrease the cost and improve the rate of maintenance; this may also make the browsers more favorably disposed toward SVG in general, because it's less work for them; 3) By sharing features with CSS/HTML, we dramatically increase the number of authors (developers and designers) who are familiar with and excited by the feature, decreasing the barrier to entry for people just starting out with SVG who are already familiar with CSS and HTML (e.g., the overwhelming majority). The downside, of course, is that there is a little bit of adjustment up front... growing pains. The SVG WG is doing extra work to clean up SVG 2 and make sure things are defined in a way that works well with CSS (and working with the CSS WG to ensure that they define things in a way that works for SVG). Some implementations are being adjusted. But on the whole, it shouldn't affect authors that much (mostly the aforementioned delays on new features), and it should pay big dividends going forward. And I don't really see many other downsides. On the particular topic of this thread, text-wrapping, there is no evidence to support the notion that coordinating with CSS is slowing us down (in fact, the CSS WG's advice was extremely helpful), and explicit evidence to show that this feature would not have moved forward if it were SVG-only: SVG Tiny 1.2 has had a very well-defined textArea element [1] for text wrapping that has been around for 4.5 years (!), and has only one browser implementation, Opera (and it's possible Opera's implementation may go away as they move their engine from Presto to Blink... a real shame...). By contrast, within a day of suggesting this to Cameron MacCormack, he had a rough first-pass implementation of text wrapping using 'width', precisely because it came for nearly free by using CSS. I suspect that part of your frustration is not moving features to CSS in general, but rather the specific topic of SMIL (and maybe also SVG Fonts). This was not so much a matter of CSS, as it was the specific decisions of Microsoft, Google, Apple, and to some degree Mozilla, all disliked SMIL, and some refused to implement it (or planned to remove existing code bases); it was simply not going to be interoperable, and for most authors, that's a deal-killer. The good news is that, in addition to all the script libraries out there that let you animate in SVG, the new Web Animations 1.0 spec [2] was approved for First Public Working Draft; it is generally more powerful and easier to use than SMIL [3], and a declarative syntax for SVG is planned that should mimic SMIL as much as possible for backwards compatibility. If I've misinterpreted or misunderstood the nature of your concerns, please set me straight. I suspect my sentiments on such matters are already well known, but I would be remiss in my obligation to other
RE: [svg-developers] Wrapping Text in SVG 2
Hi Doug, I suspect you already know that I’ll not be happy until much more is accomplished and am rather dismayed that it has taken more than a decade to get even rudimentary text areas into SVG in a way that will work across browsers. Coupling the fate of SVG with developments in CSS seems like putting the cart before the horse and seems to be slowing down progress in SVG. I suspect my sentiments on such matters are already well known, but I would be remiss in my obligation to other authors who share this perspective if I did not say it again. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug Schepers Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 2:58 AM To: svg-dev Subject: [svg-developers] Wrapping Text in SVG 2 Hi, folks- Some of you may remember me, though I haven't been very active in this list for a while. I work for W3C, I'm on the SVG Working Group, and I've been developing SVG apps and docs since about 2000 (though I'm a little rusty with development :D). I'm writing today to mention a proposal for the SVG 2 spec, and to solicit feedback. Over the years, I've spoken to many people who use SVG, and one of the pain points they remark on is wrapping text (aka multi-line text or flowing text). For a while now, we've planned to allow text wrapping into arbitrary shapes, most recently as part of the CSS regions, exclusions, and shapes specs. But those might take a while. In the short term, I think there's room for simple text wrapping based on CSS's box model. Effectively, by providing a width to a text element in SVG, it would wrap the text to that width. I think this is a pretty simple proposal, and it could be implemented fairly quickly after being specced out in SVG 2. You can read more about my rough proposal here: * http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Proposals/Wrapping_Text * http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2013Jun/0007.html * http://schepers.cc/its-a-wrap * http://schepers.cc/svg/text/text-wrap-width.svg * http://schepers.cc/svg/text/text-wrap-width-tspan.svg As regular users of SVG, I'd like to know if there are any considerations we should take into account, if you feel this would meet your needs for use in SVG, or if you have any concerns. Regards- -Doug [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] How to manipulate SVG DOM tree: locate items insert nodes?
The SVG Primer at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/resources/svgprimer.html explains how to do that sort of thing in JavaScript. I would assume that Java methods for manipulating SVG DOM would be similar. The Apache Batik project at http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/batik/ probably has information a bit more closely matched to your needs. Good luck David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of krell Krellis Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:56 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] How to manipulate SVG DOM tree: locate items insert nodes? I have a specific requirement to add a label to an SVG component that is on the canvas within an SVG editor tool. And not being a DOM / SVG expert, I have got a bit stuck. The flow I am trying to achieve is this: - user drops a component onto the canvas (derived from a rectangle-type item from an SVG file) - user selects the component with the mouse - user clicks on 'Add Label' toolbar button - code is invoked to add the label to the component The label will consist of a simple line with a disc (filled circle) fixed to one end of the line, and the disc should sit underneath a text element representing the label text to be shown: a simple numeric sequence number from one upwards. The disc, text and end of the line underneath should be able to be dragged into another position by the user. The other end of the line should appear underneath the centre-point of the selected component, and this end should remain fixed at that position and never move. Think of 'call-out' lines/labels in the old 'Haynes' car maintenance manuals (or Bosch power tool technical sheets), and this is what I'm trying to achieve. The numbers shown on the discs map to a table showing the part number the label/call-out is attached to. I have mocked this up in Adobe Illustrator and it all seems to work ok. In the mock up, after setting the Z-order/layer positions as I want them, I grouped all the items, including the label elements and the main component itself. Then, to move the disc end of the line, I selected the 'Direct selection tool' in Illustrator, dragged over the disc and label text, and part of the line, but not the over the component. This worked and I could drag the disc end anywhere I wanted. One point that I noticed was that in Illustrator when moving the line near the centre of the component to which it refers to, the word 'anchor' was displayed, but I don't know if this is relevant, as I suspect this may not be relevant. I think the grouping of the items, combined with the use of the direct selection tool to select the disc end of the line, was the signifant factor in allowing the line/disc/label to be moved. Now I want to traverse the DOM document programmatically from Java (not javascript), identify the selected component, then wrap it in a 'g' (group?) element, along with the line, the disc and the text label in the correct order, and then insert the final closing '/g' node to mark the end of the grouping, to mimic the behaviour in the Illustrator mock up. If anyone can help with this, I would be more than grateful, as I have an approaching deadline a few days from now, which cannot be moved. See more details in the attached image, as it should help understand what I'm trying to do. Thanks a lot, and I just hope someone knowledgeable can answer before my deadline approaches :( [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] super-simple typefaces
A student and I are working on a project that will involve using the browser-based manipulation and distortion of typefaces using SVG. We're interested in finding a very simple and liberally licensed typeface. We've worked with Symbola before which has a nice and full set of glyphs, but the paths of Symbola are very complex, having been created with some sort of package, exported to TTF prior to our conversion to SVG. As with many things like the familiar HTML5 logo, the geometry underlying the glyphs has not been designed with an eye to geometric accessibility [1] . The 5, in the logo, for example, consists of four separate polygons temporally displayed in the code in a completely non-intuitive order,* which would totally defy the ability of someone trying to understand the geometry of a picture haptically or tactiley. What we would like is something that has a minimal number of points in its SVG path (for example a sans-serif H would have 12 points in its outline, and a serif version might have 16). Anyone who has tried to hand edit or script typical files found at http://openclipart.org/ (typically made in Inkscape and filled with irrelevant gradients and filters, empty paths and path vertices repeated a dozen times consecutively and exported without optimization) knows what I mean. The SVG code should be as clean (as if it were hand-written by someone with knowledge of high school level coordinate geometry)! Any tips would be appreciated. [1] http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/GeometricAccessibility.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Seed 514 in feTurbulence causes squares
Wow! That is very odd. Firefox and Chrome show the squares in the same locations. Opera, which, along with IE/ASV, for years has had the most stable and complete implementation of filters, does not show the oddity, making me think it is an implementation problem. The last time I looked at Perlin noise (e.g., [1]), I didn't see anything that should cause those discontinuities. Safari doesn't seem to like SVG, as a general principle and, like IE9 shows a black rectangle. I haven't been able to test in ASV yet. That FF and Chrome and Inkscape would all behave the same way, suggest that they all just plugged in the same slightly flawed chunk of underlying source code. I would suggest submitting a bug report to Firefox and see what those folks think about the issue. Interestingly, it happens at all values of numOctaves. How did you find these funny numbers: 514, 1977, 2337, 4777, 8032, 9615 ? (They are not a sequence in the Encyclopedia of sequences [2] - I tried just on a whim.) Did you really try all 10,000 values of seed? A lot of times with things involving seeds, there is also a modulus, m, and if Euler's totient function of the seed and the modulus is other than m-1, then you get funky holes in the periodicity, but, from my experience, those holes are usually more numerous. Cheers David [1] http://webstaff.itn.liu.se/~stegu/TNM022-2005/perlinnoiselinks/perlin-noise- math-faq.html [2] http://oeis.org/ From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Richards Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:30 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Seed 514 in feTurbulence causes squares Seeds 514, 1977, 2337, 4777, 8032, 9615 (only checked 0-1) cause blank squares in feTurbulence in Firefox, Inkscape, and Batik. Is it the algorithm itself or the implementations? svg version=1.1 width=338 height=488 xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; defs filter id=Seed feTurbulence type=turbulence baseFrequency=0.1 0.1 numOctaves=5 seed=514/ /filter /defs path d=m0,0 h338 v488 h-338 v-488 filter=url(#Seed)/ /svg [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] How to file bug reports in all the different browsers
Hi Richard, Yours is a complaint I tend to share. I am sure that the browser makers want to reduce spam by requiring accounts, but it tends to ensure that the only people who will report bugs are the browser's groupies. An author trying to write content that works across browsers is probably not a groupie. Of course many of the big time authors are actually teams and they probably have, onboard, an FF groupie, a webkit groupie, an Opera groupie, etc., and those individuals probably handle the team's bug reports, and probably have a working acquaintance with the browser's development squad, possibly even being a member of said squad. It is the lone experimenter's voice, I think, that is often muffled and ignored in the big whir of progress in web standards development. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pearman Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 1:15 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] How to file bug reports in all the different browsers Hi, Sorry, just the URL's for reporting bugs isn't good enough. At least not with Mozila (which has managed to introduce some really bad bugs recently). I tried reporting bugs but I needed to log in, they made me use a fancy password thingy and that didn't work! Richard Pearman http://www.pixelpalaces.com/ The next stage in the evolution of web comics: http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/details/listing.php?comicID=4415 Read my Helium articles: http://www.helium.com/users/212199 South Alberta Cactus and succulent society: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20360241008 Make money from discussing things: http://www.myLot.com?ref=Graptopetalum For your reference and others https://bugs.webkit.org/ https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/ https://bugs.opera.com/wizard/ http://connect.microsoft.com/IE Michael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Added interactivity to Voronoi diagram
Many of you have probably seen the Voronoi diagram generator in D3 [1]. Mike Bostock showed it at SVG Open in Boston in 2011, I think. Well, Jake Weidman (who some of you met at the conferences in 2011 and 2012) has added some nice functionality to it: http://cs.sru.edu/~gravity/voronoi.html It allows one to add new points to the diagram at the position of the mouseclick and to export the resultant drawing as a set of SVG paths for later work. The plan is to be able to use the resulting geometry as a space into which one can flow other web content like text, graphics, pictures, glyphs etc. Rectangles are just so bloody boring! Cheers David [1] http://strongriley.github.io/d3/ex/voronoi.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Slight adjustment RE: [svg-developers] The Graphical Web conference -- San Francisco, October 21-23 2013
Just after sending the earlier note, we found that the three dates are still the same, but the workshop will be Monday the 21st, instead of the 23rd. These changes are reflected in the addresses http://www.svgopen.org/2013/ and https://twitter.com/thegraphicalweb We'll be posting the call for papers and sponsorship information soon, both here and at those addresses. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Dailey Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 9:20 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Cc: 'Andreas Neumann'; annburket...@gmail.com; 'Vincent Hardy' Subject: [svg-developers] The Graphical Web conference -- San Francisco, October 21-23 2013 Hi folks, I'm pleased to announce that The Graphical Web (previously SVG Open) will be held in San Francisco this year at the Moscone Center. The dates will be October 21 and 22 with workshops taking place on October 23rd. We're pleased to have worked closely with several people on scheduling this event in this very high-profile venue in the Bay Area. People at Adobe Systems, Inc., as well as Ann Burkett have been particularly supportive in our initial stages of planning. The website at http://www.svgopen.org/2013/ as well as the Twitter feed at https://twitter.com/thegraphicalweb should provide additional details on paper submission, sponsorship opportunities, and so forth. Cheers, David Dailey [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] External SVG file in an SVG
Hi Brian, Thanks for the bug number, but I'm not sure quite how to read it. When I see the word fixed in the thread, does that mean that in some experimental version of webkit, the problems will someday go away? The examples I reported at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2011Apr/0073.html still show rather enormous cross-browser inconsistencies. Regards David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Birtles Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 8:17 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] External SVG file in an SVG (2013/04/18 22:02), al_i_bi_bi wrote: Hello, I start with SVG (sorry) and sorry twice for my poor english (i'm french) ... I try to call an external SVG (made with Illustrator) in an SVG using use and xlink I think this may be the corresponding bug number: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=229081 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] How to file bug reports in all the different browsers
I'm replying to this old message, just so it is easier to find next time around. It would go in an FAQ if we had one. We used to have an SVG Interest Group, but people seemed to run out of time to maintain it. Doug Schepers mentioned another such initiative recently, but it seemed to have less energy behind it than SVG IG had had. I've heard tell of an SVG thingy on LinkedIn. Does anyone know if there is activity there? Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of meikelneu Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 5:52 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] How to file bug reports in all the different browsers --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , David Dailey ddailey@... wrote: I can't remember how to file bug reports in all the different browsers - they seem intent on making sure that only devotees are allowed to complain, David I can feel your pain, but on the other hand we should be happy that there are multiple browser vendors active and listening and at least for webkit the process is very transparent. For your reference and others https://bugs.webkit.org/ https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/ https://bugs.opera.com/wizard/ http://connect.microsoft.com/IE Michael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: External SVG file in an SVG
Curious. Is Chromium the same thing as Chrome? I thought Webkit sort of underlay both Chrome and Safari. The example at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/recent/sliderzoom.svg still pixelizes (pixelates?) when zoomed in Chrome (Version 26.0.1410.64 m ) And when I try to go the the bugzilla thing, it tells me that Bug #229081 does not exist. I'm a bit confused here, but then I'm not wearing my Google Glass. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of brianskold Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 7:23 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: External SVG file in an SVG --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , David Dailey ddailey@... wrote: Thanks for the bug number, but I'm not sure quite how to read it. When I see the word fixed in the thread, does that mean that in some experimental version of webkit, the problems will someday go away? If the bug tracker is accurate it's fixed in WebKit trunk, but not in Chromium/Blink. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] The Graphical Web conference -- San Francisco, October 21-23 2013
Hi folks, I'm pleased to announce that The Graphical Web (previously SVG Open) will be held in San Francisco this year at the Moscone Center. The dates will be October 21 and 22 with workshops taking place on October 23rd. We're pleased to have worked closely with several people on scheduling this event in this very high-profile venue in the Bay Area. People at Adobe Systems, Inc., as well as Ann Burkett have been particularly supportive in our initial stages of planning. The website at http://www.svgopen.org/2013/ as well as the Twitter feed at https://twitter.com/thegraphicalweb should provide additional details on paper submission, sponsorship opportunities, and so forth. Cheers, David Dailey [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: onmouseover effect
Hi Peter, A couple of things: 1. You might take a look at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/resources/svgprimer.html . It was written at a time that the Adobe plugin for IE (often called ASV) was more relevant (that is, before native SVG support in IE) and the examples were, except as noted, pretty much cross browser compliant for all five browsers. 2. ASV really is approaching obsolescence. While I would agree that lots of individuals do not have access to native support for SVG in IE, the SVG spec has been largely diverging from it for almost ten years now. Nevertheless, the code examples in the above reference should work most everywhere, includeing ASV. As Robert notes, Jonathan Watt's authoring notes should provide most of what you need for getting things to work across browsers. David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of PETER Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 4:40 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: onmouseover effect Robert Thank you for your prompt reply Looked at the page suggested - found relevant part. Made changes suggested In http://sst-svg.co.uk/toyellow3.svg Not only does it not work in Firefox, it doesn't work in IE with Adobe SVGview.exe I must be exceptionally dim today - what did I do wrong Pete (Northolt UK) --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , Robert Longson longsonr@... wrote: https://jwatt.org/svg/authoring/ is a good read for such things. In it it says... in ASV it is possible to write code like this: evt.getTarget().getOwnerDocument().getDocumentElement(); when the DOM and SVG specifications actually define properties, not methods, so the correct way to write this code is: evt.target.ownerDocument.documentElement; You'll find if you search in your example for getTarget() and replace it by target as suggested there, your mouseover works. Robert [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Safari SVG Script problem - help needed
I think you'll need to show an example. Though Safari seems to lag behind all other browsers in its SVG support , script, most of the time does work in Safari. David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dunbankin Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 1:59 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Safari SVG Script problem - help needed Safari 5.1 doesn't seem to like javascript inside an SVG figure. For example, try this code. It works in IE9, FF, Opera, Chrome, but NOT in Safari. It just refuses to execute the js. Can anybody help me to get this working in Safari? (My script writes a calculated string to the SVG group.) ~ http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; version=1.1 width=500px height=130px ~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: What am I overlooking?
I always assumed that if we had access to a glyph's footprint (which some browsers do) together with the various test-alignment properties in SVG 1.1, then top-aligned fonts like Hindi and the other non-Dravidian Indian scipts, as well as reverse directional scripts would be straightforward. What problems does Hindi present? I used Tamil just fine in my talk in Chennai a year ago though it is Dravidian, and my Chinese seems to have been acceptable in Guangzhou. Our paper on text and accessibility http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/GeometricAccessibility.html talks about a need for general solutions to alignment, shaping, and the like, as well, as the need to be able to create, customized, roll-your-own fonts on the fly. Half the world's writing uses standardized fonts; another half (for shop signs, graffiti, menus, logos and the like) uses roll-your-own fonts custom-built for specific problems.). Throwing away SVG fonts means dooming half the world's expressions to bitmaps. Cheers D From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Longson Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:24 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: What am I overlooking? The only way I could get text to scale properly to a viewBox (and hence to scale in a device-independent way) for most of the examples at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/text/ was to set textLength and use lengthAdjust=spacingAndGlyphs Firefox, seems to be lagging quite behind in its support of the advanced text handling features of SVG1.1 which is why, I gather, they are recommending that support for text, at least in the form of SVG fonts be dropped from SVG2.0, in the name of progress, I suppose. It remains to be seen if all other aspects of advanced text handling will be dropped from SVG. Part of it, I gather, is that the HTML CSS crowd have discovered how cool SVG effects are and they want to apply them to HTML even if it means trashing SVG in the process. I suppose some, but not all members of the SVG WG might have reason to disagree with my pessimism. It's true that Firefox is lagging behind with some text features. That has nothing to do with why we're not doing SVG fonts. SVG Fonts only support some of the world's languages. Those supported languages happen to include the one that you prefer to use - English. If your generally used Hindi for reading/writing you would be asking why you can't use SVG Fonts at all even in the UAs that support them rather than advocating that more UAs support something you just can't use. Robert. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] What am I overlooking?
It was fascinating to me to see how inconsistently Jerry’s example rendered
across browsers. IE9 did something still different and what I saw in the four
browsers Jerry reported on, my observations were quite different than his.
Would we not expect SVG in HTML to render more consistently across browsers? If
so would that be an SVG WG thing or an HTML5 WG thing?
Cheers
David
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Erik Dahlstrom
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:23 PM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [svg-developers] What am I overlooking?
On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:51:22 +0100, Jerrold Maddox jx...@psu.edu
mailto:jxm22%40psu.edu wrote:
The is site using svg that works in Chrome and Safari, but half the lower
series is cut off in Firefox and Opera.
Can anyone suggest a way to fix it?
http://clarify.site44.com/opacity.html
Thanks.
Jerry
Judging by the content you should add: viewBox=0 0 500 550. Otherwise
you might get some parts of the svg clipped no matter what (depends on the
resolved size of the CSS box for the svg).
Alternatively you could set width and height to the same absolute values
(500x550px).
Or you could add some CSS:
html, body { height: 100% }
My recommendation would be to define the coordinate system with viewBox.
Cheers
--
Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software
Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed
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RE: [svg-developers] What am I overlooking?
Hi Jerry,
At http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/font_effects_JM_IE9.jpg you can see what it looks
like in IE9 – yet one more interpretation.
I think part of this has to do with word-spacing and line height.
The only way I could get text to scale properly to a viewBox (and hence to
scale in a device-independent way) for most of the examples at
http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/text/ was to set textLength and use
lengthAdjust=spacingAndGlyphs Firefox, seems to be lagging quite behind in
its support of the advanced text handling features of SVG1.1 which is why, I
gather, they are recommending that support for text, at least in the form of
SVG fonts be dropped from SVG2.0, in the name of progress, I suppose. It
remains to be seen if all other aspects of advanced text handling will be
dropped from SVG. Part of it, I gather, is that the HTML CSS crowd have
discovered how cool SVG effects are and they want to apply them to HTML even if
it means trashing SVG in the process. I suppose some, but not all members of
the SVG WG might have reason to disagree with my pessimism.
In your play with fonts, you might enjoy this subset of the open font Symbola,
available as both glyphs and paths at
http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/SymbolaB1.svg -- the entire emoji Unicode plus
some emojiPlus characters are there.
In Firefox, you will see radically different versions of things using the same
version of Firefox in the same OS, but on different machines since it seems
intent on pulling from installed system fonts rather than relying on path data;
The score card for browsers support of SVG fonts can be seen at
http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/message/65934
Many of the SVG WG seem not to know this information, so please don’t tell them
;) It will be our secret.
David
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Jerrold Maddox
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:04 PM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [svg-developers] What am I overlooking?
David
Try this site too. Problems with both using unicode characters and svg.
Different on all four the browsers - Chrome, Firefox, Opera and Safari
http://clarify.site44.com/smallgraphics.html
Jerry
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 12:43 PM, David Dailey ddai...@zoominternet.net
mailto:ddailey%40zoominternet.net wrote:
**
It was fascinating to me to see how inconsistently Jerry’s example
rendered across browsers. IE9 did something still different and what I saw
in the four browsers Jerry reported on, my observations were quite
different than his.
Would we not expect SVG in HTML to render more consistently across
browsers? If so would that be an SVG WG thing or an HTML5 WG thing?
Cheers
David
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:
svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com ] On
Behalf Of Erik Dahlstrom
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:23 PM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [svg-developers] What am I overlooking?
On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:51:22 +0100, Jerrold Maddox jx...@psu.edu
mailto:jxm22%40psu.edu wrote:
The is site using svg that works in Chrome and Safari, but half the lower
series is cut off in Firefox and Opera.
Can anyone suggest a way to fix it?
http://clarify.site44.com/opacity.html
Thanks.
Jerry
Judging by the content you should add: viewBox=0 0 500 550. Otherwise
you might get some parts of the svg clipped no matter what (depends on the
resolved size of the CSS box for the svg).
Alternatively you could set width and height to the same absolute values
(500x550px).
Or you could add some CSS:
html, body { height: 100% }
My recommendation would be to define the coordinate system with viewBox.
Cheers
--
Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software
Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed
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RE: [svg-developers] Re: Interesting read about scriptless animation
Hi Joe, Your examples didn't seem to make it through, so they may be needed for me to see what you mean. Usually when I want something to blink I do something like animate attributeName=opacity values=0;1;0 ./ or use a collection of sets as in the bottom illustration at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/2011/SMIL.html It seems like rotate is more naturally cyclic than translate, so I don't think I'm following the distinction (probably since I can't see the examples). I find it quite intriguing to solve problems with these approaches (whether or not declarative in the proper sense of declarative programming) Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Doll Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 3:30 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Interesting read about scriptless animation Hi David, I have noticed that when I code in SMIL that I have to break the tags into 2 categories, depending on whether they will cycle. By that I mean, rotate, skew, translate, and scale will cycle, but all other SMIL tags will only cycle if they reference a tag that cycles. For example, if you try to use a set attribute on opacity to blink a light, the light will not blink unless you reference it to a tag that will cycle such as scale ( won't cycle). Is this by intent? If it is, then I wouldn't say that SMIL passes as a declarative language. You could call the animation tags declarative, or maybe you could call the other tags a declarative markup. For example, this will not blink. But, this will blink. Best Regards, Joe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Interesting read about scriptless animation
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/web/library/x-matters42/index.html cheers D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] following a moving path
Fwiw, Bob Hopgood sent me a version using 12 interpolated paths in the animation of the d attribute that simulates rotation quite well. It is still an awfully lot of work for the author, so it seems like the ability to follow a path while said path is being transformed is a feature that will be needed in SVG 2.0. I'll float the recommendation over there. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Dailey Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 8:08 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [svg-developers] following a moving path A somewhat feeble attempt to do this can be seen at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/A2.svg Note that the middle lower example sort of works, by putting four different values of the d attribute into an interpolated animation. Perhaps with eight values the effect would be more accurate (four more at 45, 135. 225, and 315 degrees each). Not sure, but the interpolation might simulate rotation, if sufficiently many intermediate states of the pseudo-ellipse are provided, then it might sorta work. Of course, then the author would have to sit and work out all the trig of the transformed coordinates for all 8 interpolated values (the 90 degree ones were simple, since I just permuted the coordinates within the d attribute) Unless someone sees something obvious that I'm missing, would it make sense to propose that animation along a path be able to follow a path even when it is being transformed? Cheers D From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Dailey Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 2:45 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] following a moving path Observe the examples in http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/A1.svg In all browsers but Firefox (where I've filed a bug report) and IE (which seems not to yet support SVG animation) the red oval follows a path that is itself animated (by animating its d attribute). But supposing we want to have an oval (the blue one) follow a path that is not deforming but is rotating. It seems as though there is no way to do that. Can anyone think of a way to do it short of amending the SVG spec? (or using script - which is so hideously inelegant that no cultured person would seriously consider it humor/) Cheers D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: following a moving path
Hi Israel, Funny, just before you sent this, I had figured out the same thing - animate the transform of the group containing both. I somehow didn't think that would work. regards David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of israel_eisenberg Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:52 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: following a moving path Hi David http://owl3d.com/tests/aniCombo.svg Regards Israel --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , David Dailey ddailey@... wrote: Fwiw, Bob Hopgood sent me a version using 12 interpolated paths in the animation of the d attribute that simulates rotation quite well. It is still an awfully lot of work for the author, so it seems like the ability to follow a path while said path is being transformed is a feature that will be needed in SVG 2.0. I'll float the recommendation over there. Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] following a moving path
A somewhat feeble attempt to do this can be seen at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/A2.svg Note that the middle lower example sort of works, by putting four different values of the d attribute into an interpolated animation. Perhaps with eight values the effect would be more accurate (four more at 45, 135. 225, and 315 degrees each). Not sure, but the interpolation might simulate rotation, if sufficiently many intermediate states of the pseudo-ellipse are provided, then it might sorta work. Of course, then the author would have to sit and work out all the trig of the transformed coordinates for all 8 interpolated values (the 90 degree ones were simple, since I just permuted the coordinates within the d attribute) Unless someone sees something obvious that I'm missing, would it make sense to propose that animation along a path be able to follow a path even when it is being transformed? Cheers D From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Dailey Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 2:45 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] following a moving path Observe the examples in http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/A1.svg In all browsers but Firefox (where I've filed a bug report) and IE (which seems not to yet support SVG animation) the red oval follows a path that is itself animated (by animating its d attribute). But supposing we want to have an oval (the blue one) follow a path that is not deforming but is rotating. It seems as though there is no way to do that. Can anyone think of a way to do it short of amending the SVG spec? (or using script - which is so hideously inelegant that no cultured person would seriously consider it humor/) Cheers D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] following a moving path
Observe the examples in http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/A1.svg In all browsers but Firefox (where I've filed a bug report) and IE (which seems not to yet support SVG animation) the red oval follows a path that is itself animated (by animating its d attribute). But supposing we want to have an oval (the blue one) follow a path that is not deforming but is rotating. It seems as though there is no way to do that. Can anyone think of a way to do it short of amending the SVG spec? (or using script - which is so hideously inelegant that no cultured person would seriously consider it humor/) Cheers D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: article to contemplate -- was: [svg-developers] Re: Apple iOS 6 SVG Problems
Fascinating read, James, thanks. I didn't know Allaire was a person - I just knew it from products like Homesite and ColdFusion that I and many of my students used for a decade. Allaire, the company, was bought by Macromedia. I can't help but concur with most of what he says and with his concerns for the future of an interoperable web. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jamesd Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 1:11 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Apple iOS 6 SVG Problems It's not about the cursor, but the desire to segment the web into media outlets. Soon, like TV of the fifties, you'll access content from one of a handful of proprietary vendors. A return to the ABC, NBC and CBS style TV providers. Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook? Here is an interesting article to contemplate. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/16/device_religious_war/ James [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] an SVG /Javascript question
Hi Wade, yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing I'm doing. Seems like
inventing a loopless way of doing it would be sorta fun, but maybe a bit
difficult to handle all the situations in which one might do it. As you
point out though, it does seem to arise frequently!
Cheers
David
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of G. Wade Johnson
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 11:28 PM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [svg-developers] an SVG /Javascript question
Hi David,
On Thu, 8 Nov 2012 20:10:06 -0500
David Dailey ddai...@zoominternet.net mailto:ddailey%40zoominternet.net
wrote:
In order to perform transform operations in script rather than doing
it declaratively (whence the stack of transforms can become gnarly),
I was thinking about ways to simplify the code (from the human rather
than the computational perspective). By such perspective, the minimum
number of statements is to be optimized rather than minimizing
run-time - I know it is a funny metric, but people have been looking
at things like this since the 1970's believe it or not.
Anyhow, I wanted to develop a function which would take the d
attribute of paths or glyphs (of any sort):
d=M 1550 710.5 Q 1650 840 1610.5 920.5 Q 1580 1010 1130.5 970 Q 690
930 840 810 Q 990 690 1010.5 450.5 Q 1040 220 1190 190.5 Q 1340 170
1480.5 210 Q 1630 250 1540 420 Q 1450 590 1550 710.5 M 940.5 860.5 Q
610 1100 630.5 1170 Q 660 1240 770 1250.5 Q 880 1270 1110.5 1270 Q
1350 1270 1610 1300 Q 1870 1330 1920 1250.5 Q 1970 1180 1810 1060 Q
1650 940 1460.5 780.5 Q 1280 630 940.5 860.5 z
Or
d=M50,100
A100,50 0 0 1 250,100
A80,40 0 0 1 90,100
A60,30 0 0 1 210,100
A40,20 0 0 1 130,100
A20,10 0 0 1 170,100
This description reminds me of a kind of functional programming
approach I've used in the past.
In pseudo-code, it would do something like
new_d = join_command( transform_A(
function(a) { /* do something to each A */ },
split_commands( d )
)
);
The split_commands function would return a list of commands.
The transform_A function would identify A commands and apply the
supplied function to each, returning a modified A. The transform_A
function would then return the modified A commands along with the
original of any non-A commands.
Obviously, there would be a transform_M, etc. for each command type.
As an alternative, you could use a generic transform() that expects the
supplied function to recognize the command, parse it, modify the result
and put it back together.
I like the individual transform_* style because the identifying and
parsing/recombining logic would be hidden inside that one function.
The result would still require loop work, but it would be inside the
split_command, transform_*, and join_command functions.
This style takes a little getting used to, but it can be quite powerful
for problems with this structure.
HTH,
G. Wade
and then separate the subcommands (A,M, Q, L, l, s, z, etc) from the
coordinates thusly
A=d.match(/regexp/g)
B=d.split(/regexp/g)
And then perform arithmetic on all i in A and then join everything
back together in one swell foop:
C=d.gaps(/regexp/g,/regexp2/g) (where the mythical gaps method of
the array object would return an array of the number of
regexp2-delimited items between A's boundaries)
The properly defined gaps method would then allow something like
D=superJoin(A,B,C) ==d
And D=superjoin (A,arithmetic(B),C) == transform(d)
As it is, I'm going to have to write loops to walk through the
structure, pushing operators, numbers and coordinates onto separate
stacks and then to loop through again to reconstitute the whole mess.
Not a terrible thing, but .. Such tedium!
Any ideas if such a construct has been posited before? It would be
very handy for SVG path processing.
Cheers
David
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RE: [svg-developers] Creating SVG sound
Hi Jerry, It all sounds very interesting, but despite an intellectual curiosity I must express ignorance. Are you aware of the efforts at public-au...@w3.org ? They're putting together a whole sound spec. It should be able to not only control the mixture and interactive redefinition of multiple audio sources but the fabrication of new sounds as well. If your discussion results in some minutes or a link of some sort I'd be interested in seeing if I can understand what was discussed. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of raster2vectorjerry Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 6:32 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Creating SVG sound We at Accelerated I/O have developed a way to create SVG sound, not just simply embedding audio in SVG. Our technology enables us to change any sensor data into computer code, and that includes sound. The role of open source in SVG Sound will be critical, and there are several ways for 3rd party app developers to monetize this into apps. Late notice, but if you wanted to join a discussion on SVG Sound then please let me know via Email as soon as possible. We will discuss this topic at 9pm Eastern Time, Thursday night, November 8th. We are also in need of SVG experts to assist us in adding some SVG atrributes to the showcase (online animated SVG photo app) that shows just one area our technology can be applied. I look forward to comments or feedback from this brilliant group of SVG experts! Thanks! Jerry Ferguson COO Accelerated I/O [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] an SVG /Javascript question
In order to perform transform operations in script rather than doing it declaratively (whence the stack of transforms can become gnarly), I was thinking about ways to simplify the code (from the human rather than the computational perspective). By such perspective, the minimum number of statements is to be optimized rather than minimizing run-time - I know it is a funny metric, but people have been looking at things like this since the 1970's believe it or not. Anyhow, I wanted to develop a function which would take the d attribute of paths or glyphs (of any sort): d=M 1550 710.5 Q 1650 840 1610.5 920.5 Q 1580 1010 1130.5 970 Q 690 930 840 810 Q 990 690 1010.5 450.5 Q 1040 220 1190 190.5 Q 1340 170 1480.5 210 Q 1630 250 1540 420 Q 1450 590 1550 710.5 M 940.5 860.5 Q 610 1100 630.5 1170 Q 660 1240 770 1250.5 Q 880 1270 1110.5 1270 Q 1350 1270 1610 1300 Q 1870 1330 1920 1250.5 Q 1970 1180 1810 1060 Q 1650 940 1460.5 780.5 Q 1280 630 940.5 860.5 z Or d=M50,100 A100,50 0 0 1 250,100 A80,40 0 0 1 90,100 A60,30 0 0 1 210,100 A40,20 0 0 1 130,100 A20,10 0 0 1 170,100 and then separate the subcommands (A,M, Q, L, l, s, z, etc) from the coordinates thusly A=d.match(/regexp/g) B=d.split(/regexp/g) And then perform arithmetic on all i in A and then join everything back together in one swell foop: C=d.gaps(/regexp/g,/regexp2/g) (where the mythical gaps method of the array object would return an array of the number of regexp2-delimited items between A's boundaries) The properly defined gaps method would then allow something like D=superJoin(A,B,C) ==d And D=superjoin (A,arithmetic(B),C) == transform(d) As it is, I'm going to have to write loops to walk through the structure, pushing operators, numbers and coordinates onto separate stacks and then to loop through again to reconstitute the whole mess. Not a terrible thing, but .. Such tedium! Any ideas if such a construct has been posited before? It would be very handy for SVG path processing. Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: current level of support for SVG fonts by browser -- preparing for emoji and other semanticons
Hi Robert, You wrote: data:text/html,body style%3Dfont-size%3A 300px%3Bpoo %26%23x1f4a9%3B%2Fbody Does that mean that FF will provide path definitions for fonts representing all Unicode, or are emoji viewed as special? When I run the page at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/SymbolaB1.svg in Firefox, I see that FF currently provides its own examples of many of the emoji (including x1f4a9). Where in the Mozilla archives could I find the path data associated with those glyphs? Some of them are quite nice, and would be, perhaps, better than some of the Symbola characters. For example, the poo character in Symbola is rather crappy compared to the Mozilla version. I assume the Mozilla variants are liberally licensed? How about animation in emoji in FF? Some of them literally cry out for animation, polychrome, gradients, etc. I suppose if one is building them into the browser then one doesn't have to worry too much about 2MB of path data, but a canonical emoji font would clearly be much smaller. Gradients could help, in an example like foggy U+1f301 implemented in Symbola as a graduated halftone and taking 12819 bytes to encode [1] . A gradient with stop-opacity1 would bring such an effect very easily. The character U+1F53A up pointing red triangle in Symbola is represented with a half-tone (lots of dots) and currently takes up 19963 bytes in SVG. An up pointing red triangle in native SVG would take up about 40 bytes. A 500-fold reduction in font size would clearly be advantageous for portable fonts (but this is an extreme example). I'm thinking that the modifications of Symbola that we're considering will assume that most browsers will have better scores on the 4/4 test [2] in the foreseeable future, with IE and FF being the only significant holdouts. At any rate, if we can provide a 200K semanticon font (with emoji as a subset) as SVG, then incentive for expanded implementation across browsers of the spec may be added. Maybe not, but I figure that only about 1/3 of the glyphs used in the world come from font-families - the remainder, on shop signs, adverts and the like are hand drawn. In grad school I worked out a system of about 100 semantic primitives out of which one could express almost all ideas that were not bound to the molecular world: ideas of philosophy, science and abstraction. It was the hamburgers and the typhoons that were hard to express with semantic primitives, but emoji together with some other work on universal symbologies provide insight into how one might make a more comprehensive (and compact) orthography that works across cultures. Best regards David [1] http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/SymbolaB1.svg [2] http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/embedSVGfont1.html From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Longson Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 3:08 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: current level of support for SVG fonts by browser -- preparing for emoji and other semanticons It would be important for both accessibility and for the implementation of emoji (in which color is a part of the Unicode definition of many of the characters). Browsers are implementing emoji without using SVG. Firefox 19 will support colour emoji as will Safari/Chrome on Mac OS 10.7 Here's an example. data:text/html,body style%3Dfont-size%3A 300px%3Bpoo %26%23x1f4a9%3B%2Fbody You need to be on Mac 10.7 for this as it ships with an emoji font. Best regards Robert. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] current level of support for SVG fonts by browser -- preparing for emoji and other semanticons
In the four examples at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/embedSVGfont1.html Here are the scores by browser for what I think should be proper display (if I understand how font is supposed to work): IE/Adobe ASV == 4/4 Opera ==1/4 Chrome==1/4 Safari ==1/4 Firefox ==0/4 IE9 ==0/4 The four tests are 1. Support of d attribute within glyph 2. Support of simple black path as child of glyph 3. Support of simple red path as child of glyph 4. Support of path with animated gradient in glyph Several questions of different sorts follow: A. Does anyone know when any browser is likely to take the next step (to do simple paths as children of glyphs)??? It would be important for both accessibility and for the implementation of emoji (in which color is a part of the Unicode definition of many of the characters). An emoji subset of the Symbola font from George Douros can be seen here in Opera, Safari, Chrome or ASV: http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/SymbolaB1.svg The data is currently about 2MB for the 1500 some odd characters. It would be greatly reduced in size, as well as more semantically appropriate, and accessible, if we had access to gradients, color, pattern, and replicate for the definitions of the glyphs. B. Curiously I see that Firefox substitutes its own charset for many of the emoji. Does anyone know where I can get the source code for the symbols used in Firefox?? C. I was unhappy with the mushroom character U+1f344, so I played a bit with rebuilding it as follows: glyph glyph-name=MUSHROOMcandidate2 unicode=p horiz-adv-x=1940 d = M 1550 710.5 Q 1650 840 1610.5 920.5 Q 1580 1010 1130.5 970 Q 690 930 840 810 Q 990 690 1010.5 450.5 Q 1040 220 1190 190.5 Q 1340 170 1480.5 210 Q 1630 250 1540 420 Q 1450 590 1550 710.5 M 940.5 860.5 Q 610 1100 630.5 1170 Q 660 1240 770 1250.5 Q 880 1270 1110.5 1270 Q 1350 1270 1610 1300 Q 1870 1330 1920 1250.5 Q 1970 1180 1810 1060 Q 1650 940 1460.5 780.5 Q 1280 630 940.5 860.5 z /glyph The multiple Moveto commands, however result in fill-rule=evenodd being applied by default. Does anyone know if that is what is supposed to happen? It makes it rather goofy, until we get superpath in SVG since overlapping boundaries will have to trace one another unless we get support for g as a child of glyph. Support for iconographic script such as emoji, depends rather critically upon replicate -- just another use case for those keeping score. The count of distinct use cases is now 2713 - the approximate year that replicate and random will enter SVG. Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Standard Hover Effect
Hi James,
Your example makes me want to dig up some similar examples of my own
displaying cross browser inconsistencies in how use responds to events.
In some cases evt.target seems to refer to the object from which the use
had been cloned, in other cases to the clone itself. I have a vague and
possibly imaginary memory of someone telling me that events are not supposed
to work on use -- but usually when someone tells me that things aren't
supposed to work the way we would want them to it is someone from Mozilla
who has read the spec more literally that other folks, so this makes me
think my memory is faulty, since you have this working in FF and not
elsewhere. I know I have encountered the most paradoxical and unpleasant
inconsistencies with use and events. Fortunately, replicate (the future
replacement of use) doesn't seem to be plagued with such inconsistencies
;) tease /
Cheers
David
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of jamesd
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 6:54 PM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [svg-developers] Standard Hover Effect
I am currently using the below to highlight a button using the use element.
It works in Firefox, but not in Chrome or IE.
Could someone show me the proper way to use this action. I need it to be
flexible, meaning not a specific javascript, as I use it on different
instances with different color fills.
use xlink:href=#go_fill fill=#2500B8
onmouseover=evt.target.setAttribute('fill', '#3DFF3D');
onmouseout=evt.target.setAttribute('fill','#2500B8');/
Thanks in advance.
James
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RE: [svg-developers] Filtering out a specific color from an image?
In http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/feTurbulence19.svg (working in FF and Opera) I simply used feComponentTransfer to discretize the blue channel. Not exactly what you wanted, but along those lines. Combining with feColorMatrix seems like the way to go. feComposite can certainly help too, as in http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/feComposite4.svg Cheers David -Original Message- From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marty Sullivan Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 2:35 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] Filtering out a specific color from an image? I have gotten gotten this to work. Basically, I generated a png that had the areas of the image (a jpeg in this case) that contain the color to change as black pixels and all other areas as transparent pixels. Then I did an feComposite using the xor operator on the two images. Success! although only useful in very limited circumstances, this was a fun thing to figure out. On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Marty Sullivan dark3...@gmail.com wrote: Or perhaps I could do this with a mask instead? On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:44 AM, dark3251 dark3...@gmail.com wrote: ** I am trying to figure out if there would be a way to apply a filter to an image that would filter a specific color and change it. For example, let's say I wanted to apply a filter that would take any pure blue pixels and change its alpha to 0 making it transparent. I've been looking at the feColorMatrix and/or feComponentTransfer but I'm not sure if this could be done with those. Another idea that crossed my mind was feComposite by loading in a pure transparent image and then taking the image to be filtered and somehow making the composite result change just the color I'm looking for. Anyone have any ideas here? It seems like I should be capable of doing this somehow. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] interactive art in SVG
Does anyone know of a collaborative effort to allow multi-person simultaneous drawing on the web using SVG, canvas or other web-based drawing technologies? I'm thinking that the abilities to quickly draw, clone, replicate, morph, interpolate, mutate and extrapolate the collective activities of a small real-time community might be rather fun, but I don't know of such projects. Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] animate + replicate + random
In either Opera, Chrome or Firefox take a look at this: http://granite.sru.edu/~eje8449/svg-replicate/rnd-shade-show.svg It is an illustration, created by Eric Elder, of how to use random with offsets and replicate to create a texture (as applied to a clip-region). Afterward look at the less than a screenful of markup used to create the entire demo . It is one of the most elegant pieces of declarative code I've seen anywhere, and I thought you all would enjoy. His phasing in of the different effects is not only pretty but instructive! Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: interactive art in SVG
Thanks! It looks worth investigating! David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 11:44 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: interactive art in SVG Hi David, i dunno something in SVG but maybe this node.js example ist what you looking for: http://demo.tutorialzine.com/2012/08/nodejs-drawing-game/ Cheers Pawel pixelfans.de --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , David Dailey ddailey@... wrote: Does anyone know of a collaborative effort to allow multi-person simultaneous drawing on the web using SVG, canvas or other web-based drawing technologies? I'm thinking that the abilities to quickly draw, clone, replicate, morph, interpolate, mutate and extrapolate the collective activities of a small real-time community might be rather fun, but I don't know of such projects. Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: Prague Astronomical Clock simulator
Yes, it is a delightfully well-crafted construction! Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jamesd Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 4:05 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Prague Astronomical Clock simulator Finally, fantastic graphics being used in web applications! Beautiful! James --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , honyk j.tosovsky@... wrote: Dear All, let me to introduce the Prague Astronomical Clock simulator: http://drifted.in/horologium-app/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] font stretching
Last year at SVG Open I demonstrated a bunch of text effects: http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/text/ (many of which only work well in Opera, owing to the budget crisis in the US I suppose how else could one explain it?) included were some that involved rolling bubbles through text and/or deforming the text as they move with feDisplacement Anyhow, many of the effects would work in Firefox if only they supported textLength and lengthAdjust=spacingAndGlyphs This year, I thought Id rework one of them to at least work in two browsers (since in theory the rest of the world will catch up at some point in time, ¿que no? So I chose one of the simpler ones (not using feDisplacement) at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/text/bubblesc.svg (Firefox behaves spectacularly bad for this example so it seems like a good one to target) While I was at it, I figured that Id strip out all the script and rewrite it with entirely declarative methods since 100% of the worlds population can write markup (apparently, based on HTMLs success) and only .1% of those can program (based on the success of computer science programs at least in the US). So the example at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/bubbles8R.svg gets the bubbly concoction down to a lean and mean 41 lines of markup, using, of course, replicate and random to spread the bubbles across the text and give them distinct speeds. In order to make it respectable though in FF I had to strip out the fancy text handling and instead applied at transform=scale(.25,1) to squeeze the text down to make it look marginally bubbly text length and lengthAdjust give us assurance that text will fit a device, so they are crucial for accessibility and federal laws in 48 countries and all, you know? http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/bubbles8R2.svg shows the result. Anyhow what happened there, is that the pattern I used to fill the text with gradient and bubbles, (keeping the text as text you know: for accessibility) then got squashed as well as the text. So I had to enter the pattern tag and put all the content in a group that then was scaled transform=scale(4,1) to counteract the scaling on the text. Does anyone know a good way to make patterns independent of the object to which their applied? patternUnits=objectBoundingBox seems to make things worse, but maybe Im not seeing clearly. Thanks in advance David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] new form of turbulence?
You'll have to fire up Opera to see it, but I'd not guess you could tell how it is done without looking under the hood. http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/Turbrep2.svg I've never seen anything similar. I guess it is sort of piecewise Turbulence gluing together analog chunks into discrete segments. A rectangle filled with turbulence (chained with some other things to make it glyph-y) is replicated upward with its numOctaves and seed being randomized as it is replicated. The result is a very polygonal sort of turbulence. Fun! The unrandomized unreplicated version can be seen at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/feTurbulence19.svg so you can see where the chunks of the new ones came together. D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] font for legibility of numeric characters
Does anyone have recommendations for a font-family that would be a) Widely available for use across browsers in SVG b) Rendered consistently across browsers in SVG c) Easily legible for numeric characters? The last time I experimented with font support in SVG across browsers (a year or two ago) the results were very discouraging: even if fonts were installed and visible in HTML, they might not be for some browsers in SVG. Thanks in advance David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] font for legibility of numeric characters
Hey, thanks Jerry! It seems to work even on a PC and is a bit better than arial for numbers, I think. Regards David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerrold Maddox Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 12:19 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] font for legibility of numeric characters David I have been seeing how well Palatino and Palatino Linotype work for text: http://s3.amazonaws.com/fourquartets/fourquartets.html I revised the site using them for numerals. It is a good face and has been on the Mac since the '80s. http://s3.amazonaws.com/fourquartets/numberspalatino.html Palatino Linotype also have excellent support for non-Latin scripts. Jerry On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 8:40 AM, David Dailey ddai...@zoominternet.net mailto:ddailey%40zoominternet.net wrote: ** Does anyone have recommendations for a font-family that would be a) Widely available for use across browsers in SVG b) Rendered consistently across browsers in SVG c) Easily legible for numeric characters? The last time I experimented with font support in SVG across browsers (a year or two ago) the results were very discouraging: even if fonts were installed and visible in HTML, they might not be for some browsers in SVG. Thanks in advance David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] font for legibility of numeric characters
In terms of subtle variation (shape and color), some of you may find this sort of fun http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/B0a.svg It is less than 20 lines of markup, if you get rid of the blank lines David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerrold Maddox Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 4:37 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] font for legibility of numeric characters David Yes, Palatino Linotype is, I believe, a resident font on Windows. Jerry On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 4:11 PM, David Dailey ddai...@zoominternet.net mailto:ddailey%40zoominternet.net wrote: ** Hey, thanks Jerry! It seems to work even on a PC and is a bit better than arial for numbers, I think. Regards David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com [mailto: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jerrold Maddox Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 12:19 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] font for legibility of numeric characters David I have been seeing how well Palatino and Palatino Linotype work for text: http://s3.amazonaws.com/fourquartets/fourquartets.html I revised the site using them for numerals. It is a good face and has been on the Mac since the '80s. http://s3.amazonaws.com/fourquartets/numberspalatino.html Palatino Linotype also have excellent support for non-Latin scripts. Jerry On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 8:40 AM, David Dailey ddai...@zoominternet.net mailto:ddailey%40zoominternet.net mailto: ddailey%40zoominternet.net wrote: ** Does anyone have recommendations for a font-family that would be a) Widely available for use across browsers in SVG b) Rendered consistently across browsers in SVG c) Easily legible for numeric characters? The last time I experimented with font support in SVG across browsers (a year or two ago) the results were very discouraging: even if fonts were installed and visible in HTML, they might not be for some browsers in SVG. Thanks in advance David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] browser support for Filters 1.0
Does anyone know if any browsers yet support the Shaders model of Filters 1.0? https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/tip/filters/index.html It looks like very fun stuff (Vincent's talk at SVG Open last year made me think it would be). So, it would be fun to start playing with it. Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: SVG in SVG - external CSS styling problem - Roberts response
I've not been following this closely, so this may not be at all what folks are talking about, but here's an SVG within an SVG (it wasn't that I set out to do that particular thing but it was the only way I could figure out to get the fun effect): http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/recent/sliderzoom2.svg It's working much the same in all browsers except for Safari, and even Safari is better than it used to be when I first did this a couple of years ago. At that time both versions of Webkit were dysfunctional, but now Chrome seems to have joined us, so perhaps Safari will, as well, one day. From my experience, if it works in 4 browsers, then the spec probably has it right too* ;) cheers David *unless it involves filter, replicate, animate or random From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Doll Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 11:37 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: SVG in SVG - external CSS styling problem - Roberts response Hi Marty, We run one HTML (actually it is PHP) file, and we have two divisions (HTML). In the upper division we run about 10 different SVG files, and in the lower division the user can load in their own SVG files. It is controlled by javascript and SVG. I think this is the question. The system works well for us, and it allows us to provide a more functional and appealing interface over the Internet than what most desktop programs have. Best Regards, Joe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] more declarative randomness: trees, clouds, tornado
http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/randC5.svg It uses a lot of SMIL and animateTransforms and the like, so it needs either Firefox or Opera to work properly (though Safari for Windows at least renders the tornado - I think webkit doesn't like HSL colors). It's less than 100 lines of declarative markup, including animate, replicate , random and the like - some might view these tags as less than fully sanctioned members of SVG 2.0, but I heard a rumor that they will be in SVG 3. tease / David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Another random walled city
http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/randA8.svg Hit refresh for new cities. For Firefox, IE9 or Opera. (not Webkit!) This is a bit more complex than the last one I sent: the clouds are new. It uses less than 100 lines of markup. It is an example of what replicate can do when one adds random to it. Thanks to Eric Elder for his work on both of these proposed extensions to the SVG spec! Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] random walled European medieval towns
A fun example with replicate and declarative randomness - works in Opera, Firefox or IE9 . (Webkit doesn't like it -- maybe it's the hsl stuff?) Hit the refresh button for a new city every time. http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/randA2.svg [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] fancy work with Bezier curves
You might find this work done by Lubos Brieda of particleincell.com to be informative. He's set up an interface that allows dragging the points through which a Bezier curve passes around, rather than the conventional illustration in which we drag control points. It also explains the math. http://www.particleincell.com/2012/bezier-splines cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] SVG still being developed?
I think that it is being used so seamlessly in so many applications on the web now (through D3, JQuery, various Google-thingies, etc.) that people have stopped noticing. All of the browsers have shown steady improvements in their level of support with, basically, each new release, and the standard itself is under major revision in anticipation of a new version (2.0). SVG is more alive than ever, but a bit more quietly than people seem to realize. I've recently visited India and China, where SVG is finding new forms of application in areas ranging from demographics to transportation and utility management. The number of large companies in the west and east engaged in SVG development is pretty impressive, but at the same time, SVG has sort of nestled into a quiet but important niche and is beginning to coexist relatively seamlessly with HTML5 (including canvas), CSS and WebGL. Super-accelerated SVG, using the GPU, is being developed by NVIDIA and others. A lot of developers are still using canvas instead of SVG in contexts where SVG would be more appropriate (like when a UI is needed). By way of half-hearted speculation, I think that misplaced zeal has a lot to do with the fact that a) they are programmers and declarative approaches don't provide quite the same level of job-security and b) Apple's halo (and to some extent Google's as well) has made canvas appeal to many of the hormone-driven youngsters who are slurping their Red Bull and programming at 02:30 am. Web GL provides, perhaps, some of the same testosterone rush. We older folks have gotten lazier and prefer fewer keystrokes. Maybe it is fear of arthritis. Cheers David -Original Message- From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marty Sullivan Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 9:09 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] SVG still being developed? Well, your friend is certainly wrong about it not being developed anymore. The standard has existed for quite a while, and even if it wasn't successful on the web, it would continue to be used elsewhere. However, we won't know whether it will catch on until a popular web application is made that uses SVG... so get to work guys :) On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 5:46 PM, cremnosedum rich...@pixelpalaces.comwrote: ** Hi, A while back I mentioned SVG to a friend who knows a lot about computers. He said it was no longer beind developed, rather dismisively, and didn't seem willing to elaborate on what he meant by that. I was doubtful about that as it seemed that all the major browsers were improving their SVG support. In the last couple of months, there have been a number of browser updates with little or no improvement to SVG that I've been able to detect. I use Windows XP so I don't know about IE 9. Have the browser developers basically given up on SVG or are they waiting for something or is this a statistical blip or what? Richard Pearman http://www.pixelpalaces.com/ The next stage in the evolution of web comics: http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/details/listing.php?comicID=4415 Read my Helium articles: http://www.helium.com/users/212199 South Alberta Cactus and succulent society: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20360241008 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] How to apply shadow effect on svg elements using css?
Hi Pranjal,
My experience (albeit pretty shallow so far on the CSS side) is that cross
browser support for the SVG effects being borrowed (with glee, but a bit
higgledy-piggledy, in terms of semantic purity and party doctrine) into CSS
is that you'll find better cross browser support for SVG than for the CSS
versions. Many of the CSS versions have yet to become part of any
recommended standard, I think.
Something so simple as an SVG gradient, even, seems to require lots of
switchy-thingies in order to work across browsers: see
http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/Guangzhou/g0.htm (as compared with the simpler,
and more scalable http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/Guangzhou/g1.svg ). I would
expect filters, animations, replicates and the rest of the good things in
SVG to be a few years away from cross-browser consistency.
Perhaps the implementers working on these things will see it differently -
if so I'd trust their perspective more than my own, as I've only dabbled a
wee bit in the area.
Cheers
David
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of pranjal
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 9:52 AM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [svg-developers] How to apply shadow effect on svg elements using
css?
It is required to have shadow effect on various elements of svg like path,
rect, etc.
I have tried this using filters that already given in svg , but that is not
supported in all browser.
So i want it to be done using css, as i have tried this but its not woking:
html
head
/head
body
svg xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; version=1.1
defs
style type=text/css![CDATA[
rect {
fill: red;
stroke: blue;
box-shadow: 6px 4px 10px 10px #88;
stroke-width: 3
}
]]/style
Any suggestions will be realy appreciable,
Thanks in advance...:)
/defs
rect x=40 y=40 rx=25 ry=50 width=150 height=100/
/svg
/body
/html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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RE: [svg-developers] Zoom In Out wih SVG
Hi Barkha, Take a look at this example; it may give some ideas on how to zoom on all or part of an SVG http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/recent/sliderzoom2.svg This example now seems to work everywhere but in Safari/Windows (which has pretty spotty SVG support*, lagging a half year or so behind Chrome it would seem). Chrome just recently became able to handle it, if I remember correctly. In another case: http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/newstuff/zoom.svg the viewBox is simply animated (works properly in Opera, IE/ASV, and I think old versions of Firefox - won't work in webkit since animate support is still fledgling, and new Firefox seems to have resurrected an old problem with when events fire - it could be that my code here is just old and brittle since I wrote it in 2005 or so, but the principle should be the same if one reworks all the scripted DOM stuff with simple SVG). At present, each author writes his or her own pan and zoom functionality, despite the spec having perfunctory language requiring some of that functionality to be native (albeit nonstandard). Maybe SVG 2.0 will give some relief; I'm not sure what was decided here. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of barkha Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 6:32 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Zoom In Out wih SVG Dear All, I want to Implement zoom-in and out of the static map background and all sub entities(that are placed on static map background on another layer) by point-and-click on the map. Point clicked is centered as part of the zoom operation Regards, Barkha [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Help? What sites blogs allow upload and viewing of animated SVG photos?
I experimented briefly with Google sites (I think that is what it is called) a year or so ago, hoping to find a place where the SVG community could share a repository of fun examples, but it appeared, at the time, not to allow SVG content. Perhaps that has changed a bit by now, but I've not had a chance to look. Cheers David -Original Message- From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marty Sullivan Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2012 8:02 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] Help? What sites blogs allow upload and viewing of animated SVG photos? Don't know how helpful this would be, but one of the few major sites that allows SVG uploads is Wikipedia/Wikimedia Commons. I don't think they can contain JavaScript but I've never tested it. SMIL animations and similar are allowed, On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 4:14 PM, raster2vectorjerry pnzje...@gmail.comwrote: ** I want to start displaying animated SVG photos that are created using our new online animated SVG tool; however, it's rather hard to find sites that already permit them for upload. I figure that a collaboration of SVG developers would be the perfect answer, and maybe it might help a few other people as well. Also I intend to contact various platforms to encourage them to accept SVG as an upload and download format. Anybody have any experiences on that? I'll also make a separate post on that one later. Thank you for your help!!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] clippling replicate objects
Hi Richard, I think the situation you mention is one of the shortcomings of replicate at the moment: how to confine its shading and rich gradient possibilities to a given shape? Here are some experiments: http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/gradRep1.svg If replicate were a full-fledged member of SVG, then applying a clip path to a replicated object should be straightforward; as it is, the way the JavaScript is written, we've appended all the replicates to the DOM in such a way that clipping would not seem to work. Eric Elder and I are in the midst of reworking some of the replicate code this summer (in hopes of making it handle animation for browsers like IE and webkit that are rather limited there and for handling declarative randomness) so it seems like a time to consider such things as coexistence with clipping and masks and so forth. Maybe in six months or so we can report a better version which might meet your needs better. In short, replicate is only a sketchy proposal at present, able to handle pseudo-3D objects, rich gradients, non affine transforms, non-rectangular tilings and a few of the other shortcomings of SVG1.1. The folks designing SVG2.0 seem to prefer a handful of assorted other approaches to these issues, rather than using a single construct, but we suspect that once declarative randomness is added into the arsenal, the value of replicate will become apparent to a broader audience. Regards David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cremnosedum Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 1:25 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] clippling replicate objects Hi, I'm trying to use replicate to provide realistic shading in realistic pictures. Unfortunately, it's difficult to make replicate objects the required shape (or is there a WYSIWYG replicate drawing program I don't know about?) so the obvious solution is to use clip paths. ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8 standalone=no? !-- Created with Inkscape (http://www.inkscape.org/) -- svg xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; width=100% xmlns:xlink=http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink; onload=startup(evt) viewBox=0 0 100 100 defs clipPath id=myclip path d=m 39.405204,36.05948 c 0,0 -4.089219,1.486989 -9.479554,14.498141 -5.390334,13.011153 -2.416356,21.375465 -2.416356,21.375465 0,0 7.78742,6.294142 22.862453,5.762082 15.799256,-0.557621 22.118959,-5.390335 22.118959,-5.390335 0,0 0.225529,-13.793758 -4.64684,-22.862454 -5.407224,-10.064196 -10.780669,-13.3829 -10.780669,-13.3829 z id=path2985/ /clipPath script type=text/javascript xlink:href=replicate.js/ linearGradient id=f x1=1 y1=0.45 x2=0.15 y2=0.9 stop offset=0 stop-color=#ff8/ stop offset=.3 stop-color=#000/ stop offset=1 stop-color=#ff8/ /linearGradient /defs g clip-path=url(#myclip) ellipse cy=-100 cx=200 rx=30 ry=50 fill=url(#f) stroke-width=.5 stroke=none transform=matrix(0.3,0,0,0.3,-10,-20) replicate repeatCount=80 replicateAttribute attributeName=cy from=300 to=100/ replicateAttribute attributeName=ry from=100 to=0/ replicateAttribute attributeName=rx from=100 to=0/ /replicate /ellipse /g path style=color:#00;fill:#7778dd;fill-opacity:1;fill-rule:nonzero;stroke:#0 0;stroke-width:1;stroke-linecap:butt;stroke-linejoin:miter;stroke-miterl imit:4;stroke-opacity:1;stroke-dasharray:none;stroke-dashoffset:0;marker:non e;visibility:visible;display:inline;overflow:visible;enable-background:accum ulate id=path2987 d=m 57.434945,36.431229 a 8.9219332,1.4869889 0 1 1 -17.843866,0 8.9219332,1.4869889 0 1 1 17.843866,0 z/ /g /svg Well that should do it but the clipping isn't applied. I tryed applying the clip path directly to the ellipse but then only the path (which is also an ellipse) appeared. Perhaps I should put the replicate object in a pattern? Before wasting a lot of time trying things that don't work, I thought I'd ask if anybody else knows how to do this. For that matter, why does the replicate object appear over things that are later in the file? Richard Pearman http://www.pixelpalaces.com/ The next stage in the evolution of web comics: http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/details/listing.php?comicID=4415 Read my Helium articles: http://www.helium.com/users/212199 South Alberta Cactus and succulent society: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20360241008 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com
RE: [svg-developers] Drag from DOM Element of HTML Drop into SVG Element
Hello Barkha, This is an interesting question, and is something I've never tried. What I would try is something like this (rolling my own event handlers and script rather than relying on libraries that might do some of the interface handling) a) Activate the html documentElement so that it listens to mousemove after the object has been selected b) Set the svg documentElement so that it responds to onmouseover - thereupon listening to mousemove c) Onmouseover on the svg document, trigger script to append an image element to the svg document d) Successively reposition the svg image as the mouse moves in the svg documentElement What I don't know are two rather large uncertainties a) Whether or not the onmouseover atop the SVG will be heard while the mouse is busy dragging the HTML img b) Whether any cross-browser consistency at all will be found in this sort of HTML5 embedding of SVG in HTML (generally, the use of object or embed shows considerably more cross-browser consistency than any of the newfangled things that are only in candidate recommendation status, or less) Others may have had more experience with this and/or suggest simpler approaches, but one bad idea may give others incentive to respond and improve Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of barkha Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 10:07 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Drag from DOM Element of HTML Drop into SVG Element Dear All, I want to drag HTML Div Element from a list of Div elements drop it as an image into the SVG element of SVG file that is embedded with the same HTML file that contains the list of Division Elements,what is the exact way to achieve this? Regards, Barkha [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: getBBox that takes into account clipping?
Hi Robert,
Maybe I am not understanding, but consider two equivalent crescent shapes
(or C's) that share a centroid but with one of them rotated 90 degrees. The
intersection of the bounding boxes is much larger than the bounding box of
the intersection of the shapes.
David
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Longson
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 4:45 AM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [svg-developers] Re: getBBox that takes into account clipping?
Andrew,
You could get the bounding box of the clip path and then just work out the
intersection of the two rectangles. See the answer here for more details
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10430518/getting-a-display-bounding-box-f
or-a-clipped-object/10433013#10433013
Best regards
Robert.
--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , Andrew Shellshear andrew@...
wrote:
Hello SVGers,
The getBBox method (by design) doesn't take into account clipping. Is
there
a method that does, or failing that, has anyone written some javascript to
do it?
For example:
svg id=foo x=0 y=0 width=100 height=100
rect width=200 height=200 fill=red stroke=black/
/svg
document.getElementById(foo).getBBox() would return {x:0, y:0,
width:200,
height:200}.
I need {x:0, y:0, width:100, height:100}.
(Some context: I'm writing a scrollbar widget - yes, I know, I know - and
currently I can't put a scrollable area inside another scrollable area,
because getBBox ignores my attempts at clipping.)
I started trying to write something myself, but I'm getting bogged down
with the various matrix transforms you need to do to make this work
generally.
I figure you have to rewrite getBBox() in javascript, but at each stage
checking if there's an svg element, or a clip-path, etc. and use
combinations of getBBox(), getScreenCTM(), getTranformToElement(), etc.
Have any of you done this or seen it done?
Cheers,
Andrew Shellshear.
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[svg-developers] video affected by SVG clip-path
I have put a video in an HTML5 document and have succeeded in having it
clipped by an SVG clip-path (and also filtered) as follows:
stylevideo {position:absolute; filter: url(#f1);clip-path: url(#c1); }
p{left:50%;top:5%;
position:absolute;clip-path: url(#c1);}
/style
The clip path is later defined within an SVG tag on the same page.
This only seems to work in Firefox though. Would it be absurd to think that
it might someday work elsewhere as well?
The other experiments I've done (trying to accomplish similar effects)
involve
a) Using foreignObject in svg - with an iframe containing the
video. Seems only to work in Firefox again - Opera displays the video, but
it only plays if I actively resize the window, as soon as I stop dragging
the corner of the window, the video stops
b) Using video in svg - only Opera seems to do this, but then I can't
use all the fun attributes associated with video.
So two questions really:
1. Is video in SVG likely to be improved in other browsers? Will the
other attributes (like controls=controls muted=muted loop=loop
autoplay=autoplay ) migrate into SVG 2.0?
2. Is the style approach above (and discussed at
https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Applying_SVG_effects_to_HTML_content )
supposed to work, eventually, in the other browsers, or is this another area
where they all have different ideas of how the spec reads, and or what makes
for good design?
I would show my examples, but I don't seem to know how to configure my
server to serve OGG or MP4 properly.
I guess that leads to a question: how to configure an Apache server so that
it properly serves OGG and MP4 mime types (I tried an .htaccess file in my
main html directory(each user has his or her own on this server)?
Thanks in advance
David
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[svg-developers] PlanetSVG is listed as suspicious
http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=http://planetsvg.com/tool s/mime.php http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=http://planetsvg.com/too ls/mime.phphl=en hl=en Interesting. I was trying to get to info about setting mimetypes, but the site seems to have been the target of some mischief. Cheers D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Getting current time in svg file...
You've used document.write to try to insert SVG content. I think that will only work in HTML. For SVG, you'll have to use DOM methods to do that. There are a zillion SVG clocks out there, but here's the one I can find easily: http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/ballclock.svg You'll see how it retrieves the time and then sets the clock hands. One could just as easily write the time as a string into a text Node. Good luck David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of royhoja Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 11:46 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Getting current time in svg file... Hi, I am trying to add current time to the svg file I have using Ecmascript. following is the code I have. Unfortunately its not working . can someone help me fix it? Thank you ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8 standalone=no? !DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD SVG 1.0//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-SVG-20010904/DTD/svg10.dtd; svg xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; xmlns:xlink=http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink; width=300 height=300 text x=0 y=15 fill=redIt is now script type=text/javascript ![CDATA[ var currentTime = new Date(); var month = currentTime.getMonth() + 1; var day = currentTime.getDate(); var year = currentTime.getFullYear(); document.write(month + / + day + / + year); ]] /script /text /svg [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Deadline approaching for submission of abstracts for SVG Open/The Open Web 2012
Just a reminder to all you good folks that May 7th is the deadline for submission of abstracts for this year's conference in Zurich in September: http://www.svgopen.org/2012/dates.shtml This year's conference will be sponsored by Adobe, Google, Microsoft and NVIdia and supported by the W3C and Khronos standards organizations. It marks a transition from a conference focused on SVG to one that more broadly addresses the full suite of open graphics technologies for the web. (It is not too late to join our group of sponsors either!) Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: showing full svg content whithout calculating extents
No, I don’t believe there is any such tag or attribute to set the viewBox so
that it will hold all drawn contents of a drawing. I could see the value,
though, of what you’re saying: doing it declaratively instead of via script. As
it is, I believe you’d have to do as Yannick says: render all content inside a
g and, upon the load of the svg, measure the g with getBBox(). If you’re
using D3, then you have access to JavaScript (not all viewers do), so it
shouldn’t matter too much (the computational efficiency of getBBox() should
work pretty efficiently as a function of the number of drawn objects in the
g, though I suppose the complexity of the objects would affect this as well)
Good luck
David
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Alireza
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 9:31 AM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [svg-developers] Re: showing full svg content whithout calculating
extents
Thanks, I wished I could find a tag or attribute for this but this is also
useful.
Anyhow thanks
--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com
, yannick.bochatay@... wrote:
Hi,
if all your shapes are included in a g element, you can use the getBBox
method on this node to get the dimensions.
In your example :
document.getElementById('G2').getBBox()
Yannick
- Mail original -
De: Alireza ahmadi_rad@...
À: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com
Envoyé: Jeudi 5 Avril 2012 10:19:19
Objet: [svg-developers] showing full svg content whithout calculating extents
Hello
I need help for finding extents of an svg drawing. Please take a look at this
example:
svg id=SVG1 width=5cm height=5cm viewBox=0 -100 200 200
g id=G2
line x1=0 y1=0 x2=100 y2=100 stroke=blue/
line x1=0 y1=0 x2=0 y2=100 stroke=blue/
line x1=0 y1=0 x2=100 y2=0 stroke=blue/
line x1=0 y1=0 x2=100 y2=-100 stroke=blue/
/g
/svg
For this sample it was easy to understand that viewBox=0 -100 200 200 will
fit the whole drawing. But in my real world application this will not be so
easy to calculate this. And without this viewbox or with incorrect
calculations, at least a part of drawing will not be shown which is not
desirable.
I want to show the whole drawing in svg without getting involved in
calculating the extents. Something like zoom extents in aoutocad. could you
please help?
Thanks
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tactile accessibility as an alternative to color [was RE: [svg-developers] diagonal lines in pattern elements ]
Yes, thanks Erik, that seems to do it (except for IE9 where the line-breaks still persist). I cleaned up the code a bit (using use) and updated the example at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/V12.svg The example that is second from the left in the bottom row conveys something I’ve been thinking about for some time: would there be a canonical set of pattern primitives which when combined could give a tactile substitution for color for those who can’t see the colors? It is related to what I call “geometric accessibility.” In a textual language like HTML, the semantics is text, while in a visual language like SVG, the semantics is graphical (something to think about when we decide which attributes should be style-able and use-able). Might the use of Braille characters for the glyphs in the figure at bottom left provide better semantic labeling of the regions of overlap? Well it seems like the dot frequencies of the Braille together with the pattern harmonics would set up interference that would just be “noisy” in the tactile realm, hence the idea that something like the superimposition of patterns (in the one to its right) might remedy. So, in some basic psychophysical sense (a la Weber, Helmhotz, Fechner and S. S. Stevens) are there a set of maximally distinguishable simple glyphs, which could be used in patterns to show intersections of overlapping regions in a way which maximizes similarity between regions and subregions, while maximizing differences between the 2^n subregions of a given Venn diagram. Such would, I suppose, be old hat to those familiar with Ian McHarg’s work (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_McHarg#Design_with_Nature ) but to an non-cartographer like me, the questions are, at once, fundamental and intriguing. And I rather doubt that the problem has been “solved” in the sense of solving the relevant psychophysical differential equations. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Erik Dahlstrom Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 5:12 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] diagonal lines in pattern elements On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 03:16:27 +0200, David Dailey ddai...@zoominternet.net mailto:ddailey%40zoominternet.net wrote: http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/V12.svg In the bottom right illustration on this page, note how the diagonal lines (created through varying both size and viewBox attributes on a pattern tag) have small discontinuities. (in all modern browsers) Does anyone see an obvious way around that? Your can modify your pattern tiles, e.g like this: pattern id=NL1 patternUnits=userSpaceOnUse width=20 height=30 viewBox=0 0 25 25 preserveAspectRatio=none line x1=-5 y1=-5 x2=30 y2=30 stroke=black stroke-width=2 / line x1=-5 y1=-5 x2=30 y2=30 stroke=black stroke-width=2 transform=translate(25,0)/ line x1=-5 y1=-5 x2=30 y2=30 stroke=black stroke-width=2 transform=translate(-25,0)/ /pattern The added lines+transforms just make sure that the overflow (from the neighboring tiles) that should go on each side ends up where it's supposed to. -- Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] diagonal lines in pattern elements
http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/V12.svg In the bottom right illustration on this page, note how the diagonal lines (created through varying both size and viewBox attributes on a pattern tag) have small discontinuities. (in all modern browsers) Does anyone see an obvious way around that? Cheers David P.S. For a fun example with patterns see http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/recent/sliderzoom2.svg and drag the slider. Works the same in FF, Opera and IE (not so well in Chrome or Safari though) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] getting xor filters to work
In the mid 1980's I played a bit with MacPascal and wrote a simple thing that overlaid XOR bitblt's of circles at random locations to create some interesting (and rather paradoxical) visual effects. Consider the file at http://theory.cs.uvic.ca/~cos/venn/gifs/anim-nc.gif as discussed in http://theory.cs.uvic.ca/~cos/venn/VennWhatEJC.html . (It is a symmetric alternative to Venn's original proof of the constructability of Venn diagrams on N sets). Can anyone think of a way to do this with successive overlays of filtered SVG paths? It seems like feComposite with operator = xor ought to do the trick, but I haven't been able to get any browsers to do what I expect they should. Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] A path from SVG to MS Word?
Thanks to all who offered suggestions here. I think I'll go this direction. I used to print to PostScript files with similar effect, so this makes sense. Using PrtScrn would capture the image, just fine, but it is then a bitmap and I need to retain its vector qualities. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Bergqvist Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:50 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] A path from SVG to MS Word? I suggest that you install a PDF printer driver and then print the document in IE/Opera to the PDF driver. Search print to pdf in google for PDF printer drivers. I'm currently using Bullzip PDF driver but there are several others available too. Regards, Daniel David Dailey skrev 2012-04-02 00:31: A conference that I'm submitting a paper to allows either LaTex or MS Word as formats. It has been at least 70 years since I used TeX, so Word is the format I'm left with. The problem: most of the illustrations I have are in SVG format and use complex filters and the journal states a strong preference for vector graphics. Does anyone know of an easy path from these files to some other format. I can view the files successfully in either Opera or IE/ASV, but nothing else that I have handy. The version of Adobe Illustrator (CS2) that I have doesn't open the files properly (though I haven't tried the version 5 that I have at the office). Inkscape doesn't properly display the files either. Does anyone know a path from fancy SVG (an example can be seen using Opera at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/V1.svg ) to some vector format that can be embedded in Word or even PDF? Thanks in advance David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4908 - Release Date: 04/01/12 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: Borromean rings and Firefox SMIL -- also funky Opera and Chrome behavior
Wow, such sophisticated behavior. seeing that the car changes lanes just as it approaches the other, I was just about convinced there had to be script involved. Why would any browser not implement SMIL I wonder? It is just so delightfully expressive! Regards David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of t...@ymail.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 4:29 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Borromean rings and Firefox SMIL -- also funky Opera and Chrome behavior Love those cars! Couldn't resist and had some more fun with cars: http://wwwpub.zih.tu-dresden.de/~s9783698/svg/overtakingCars.svg There's also some funky Opera behavior, and Chrome doesn't seem to respect animateTransform. Thomas W. --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , David Dailey ddailey@... wrote: In the page at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/rings.svg I see something in Firefox that I have actually noticed, more or less, consistently but anecdotally for a couple of years. In this case it becomes more obvious: Sometimes SMIL animation in Firefox comes to a complete but temporary halt for a 100 milliseconds or so - just long enough to be annoying. Other browsers implementation of SMIL have never done this to my knowledge, yet Firefox seems to have done it ever since it started implementing SMIL. Is this just me, or have other authors noticed the same thing? While on the subject of Firefox, any idea when the sorts of filters done in the additive color model in the Venn diagram at right might be implemented? This is done using feImage and feBlend but the other approach for multiplying colors (using feComposite) is equally dysfunctional at present. Also note how funky the behavior of the Borromean rings in Opera is - the rings just disappear based on the SMIL. Assuredly this is a bug, and I think I may have reported it as such. Opera at least can do Venn diagrams properly. In Chrome, things misbehave as well, but differently. Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Issues with iOS and Android
Yes, thanks Wade. Opera running SVG does run on older Droids. I knew that but forgot. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of G. Wade Johnson Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 11:34 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] Issues with iOS and Android On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:12:28 -0400 David Dailey ddai...@zoominternet.net mailto:ddailey%40zoominternet.net wrote: This isn't a very complete answer, not having either of the relevant devices, but a couple of observations may be worthwhile: 1. Androids purchased last summer, like mine, apparently will not run SVG. I didn't realize that Droids became obsolete so quickly, but I'm told one needs the Ice Cream Sandwich OS to run SVG and that my machine will never do that. (I asked at the store, before purchasing, btw.) To extend this a little further. The Stock browser on older Android phones will not display SVG. However, I have gotten SVG to display on my Nexus One in one of the Opera browsers and in a beta of the Firefox mobile browser about a year ago. G. Wade 2. Some of the web-interface goodies like (mousedown, mouseup, drag, click) are rather hi-jacked on the i-phone by the interface. I remember trying to run some of my web apps on an i-phone I had a couple of years ago, and to my horror, it appeared that Apple misunderstood the advice I offered them in 1986 about how to create multi-touch devices (they poo-pooed the idea at the time, and now, it appears they claim to own it!). What you're seeing could be an Apple thing with their whole user-interface thingy. Attempts to reconcile application-relevant events across platforms are, as I understand it, underway. 3. Your page works fine in Windows for Opera, Firefox, Safari and Chrome, but not for IE9. I suspect getting it to work in IE9 would be prerequisite for a Windows phone. It is usually not very difficult to get code working in IE9, and what you're doing is pretty straightforward, so I think it should be within reach. 4. It looks like you have many more lines of code than would be required for what you're doing: cloning and then putting in motion with script. 5. If you ran the animations with SMIL and the object creation through script, you could probably reduce the code by a substantial fraction. If you're not targeting Windows, anyhow, then SMIL oughta be there - at least the primitive stuff is supported by Safari and Chrome. There are also, I gather, some hundreds of millions of devices out there that run SMIL but not script, so if the cloning were not so important as the animation (and the DOM overloading isn't too big an issue) then you might actually get better performance out of SMIL on some devices, particularly if they were running Opera mobile. Some of these points can be argued half a dozen ways apiece, and they are presented more as possibilities to consider than as beliefs or truths. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Brennan Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:52 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Issues with iOS and Android Hullo! This is my first post here. I am just discovering SVG. I am particularly interested in interactive SVG, using javaScript. I made a little demo based on code from carto:net, which works rather nicely on PCs, but has some problems on mobile devices: http://bgay.monline.dk/clone.svg Android loads, but doesn't render the source code. You only see the code in the browser window. Is this a MIME type issue? Or does Android require SVG to be wrapped in HTML? iOS (iPad) loads and renders the file, but clicking on the 'button' does nothing but spit out my console.log messages. I don't get the nice moving 'clones' at all. Why? I've tried hunting for any documentation about iOS limitations with SVG, but have found nothing. I don't have access to a windows phone 7 device, but I am assuming in-browser SVG doesn't work on that system. Is that correct? Thanks in advance! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -- There are two ways to write error-free programs; only the third one works. -- Alan Perlis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg
RE: [svg-developers] Issues with iOS and Android
This isn't a very complete answer, not having either of the relevant devices, but a couple of observations may be worthwhile: 1. Androids purchased last summer, like mine, apparently will not run SVG. I didn't realize that Droids became obsolete so quickly, but I'm told one needs the Ice Cream Sandwich OS to run SVG and that my machine will never do that. (I asked at the store, before purchasing, btw.) 2. Some of the web-interface goodies like (mousedown, mouseup, drag, click) are rather hi-jacked on the i-phone by the interface. I remember trying to run some of my web apps on an i-phone I had a couple of years ago, and to my horror, it appeared that Apple misunderstood the advice I offered them in 1986 about how to create multi-touch devices (they poo-pooed the idea at the time, and now, it appears they claim to own it!). What you're seeing could be an Apple thing with their whole user-interface thingy. Attempts to reconcile application-relevant events across platforms are, as I understand it, underway. 3. Your page works fine in Windows for Opera, Firefox, Safari and Chrome, but not for IE9. I suspect getting it to work in IE9 would be prerequisite for a Windows phone. It is usually not very difficult to get code working in IE9, and what you're doing is pretty straightforward, so I think it should be within reach. 4. It looks like you have many more lines of code than would be required for what you're doing: cloning and then putting in motion with script. 5. If you ran the animations with SMIL and the object creation through script, you could probably reduce the code by a substantial fraction. If you're not targeting Windows, anyhow, then SMIL oughta be there - at least the primitive stuff is supported by Safari and Chrome. There are also, I gather, some hundreds of millions of devices out there that run SMIL but not script, so if the cloning were not so important as the animation (and the DOM overloading isn't too big an issue) then you might actually get better performance out of SMIL on some devices, particularly if they were running Opera mobile. Some of these points can be argued half a dozen ways apiece, and they are presented more as possibilities to consider than as beliefs or truths. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brennan Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:52 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Issues with iOS and Android Hullo! This is my first post here. I am just discovering SVG. I am particularly interested in interactive SVG, using javaScript. I made a little demo based on code from carto:net, which works rather nicely on PCs, but has some problems on mobile devices: http://bgay.monline.dk/clone.svg Android loads, but doesn't render the source code. You only see the code in the browser window. Is this a MIME type issue? Or does Android require SVG to be wrapped in HTML? iOS (iPad) loads and renders the file, but clicking on the 'button' does nothing but spit out my console.log messages. I don't get the nice moving 'clones' at all. Why? I've tried hunting for any documentation about iOS limitations with SVG, but have found nothing. I don't have access to a windows phone 7 device, but I am assuming in-browser SVG doesn't work on that system. Is that correct? Thanks in advance! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: more on knots and traffic jams
Far preferable Thomas! The blinking is a property of the cars rather than the highways and this means that we could load, in theory, lots of cars into the highway; allowing the cars to move at different speeds would presumably be much easier this way as well. Using dasharray on a second copy of the highway makes sense rather than using multiple pen-up subcommands of the path. Dasharray would appear to preserve the slope of the discontinuities, perhaps, a bit better. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of t...@ymail.com Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 5:56 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: more on knots and traffic jams What about this boring solution: http://wwwpub.zih.tu-dresden.de/~s9783698/svg/modifiedDaileyRace.svg Boring as it doesn't use any of this exciting stuff like masking, clipping or filtering. In all browsers you can see at least some of the joints between road and bridge overlay. But it has two cars simultaneously passing over and under a bridge! I think that justifies the primitivity ;-). Thomas W. --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , David Dailey ddailey@... wrote: Just a small footnote: so long as the angles of intersection are all right angles, there's no real problem. See the second example at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/knot2.svg cheers D From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Dailey Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 5:45 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] more on knots and traffic jams A while back, some of us had discussions about traffic jams and knots. I had posted something that was sorta cute, Israel Eisenberg and G. Wade Johnson came up with some improvements as I recall. Well here's another version, borrowing some of each: http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/knot1.svg The moving vehicle has a mask applied to it that has bridge/tunnels that blink from bridge to tunnel. The problem is the non-rectangular crossing. Is there any way to bevel the end of a stroke? The problem of multiple vehicles having different speeds is still a huge one. I've been thinking that it would be fun to have a construct, sort of like a diagram (owing some of its definitional construct to the Venn and Euler diagrams - see http://theory.cs.uvic.ca/~cos/venn/VennEJC.html ) . It would allow the identification of simple overs and unders in a collection of edges of four-regular graphs such that bridge/tunnels as well as up and down path segments could automatically be constructed from paths, and accordingly motivate traffic flow diagrams, Celtic knots, and Borromean rings. Maybe we'll build one. BTW, try making some of the diagrams in the above survey of Venn diagrams. You'll find a good sampling of large realms of 2D content that SVG is quite ill prepared, at present, to handle very well! Along those lines, feComposite and feBlend (with feImage inside) are remarkably ill supported by extant browsers! Try any colors other than the six primaries in the example at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/Vplay1.svg to see bit of what I mean. Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] more on knots and traffic jams
Just a small footnote: so long as the angles of intersection are all right angles, there's no real problem. See the second example at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/knot2.svg cheers D From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Dailey Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 5:45 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] more on knots and traffic jams A while back, some of us had discussions about traffic jams and knots. I had posted something that was sorta cute, Israel Eisenberg and G. Wade Johnson came up with some improvements as I recall. Well here's another version, borrowing some of each: http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/knot1.svg The moving vehicle has a mask applied to it that has bridge/tunnels that blink from bridge to tunnel. The problem is the non-rectangular crossing. Is there any way to bevel the end of a stroke? The problem of multiple vehicles having different speeds is still a huge one. I've been thinking that it would be fun to have a construct, sort of like a diagram (owing some of its definitional construct to the Venn and Euler diagrams - see http://theory.cs.uvic.ca/~cos/venn/VennEJC.html ) . It would allow the identification of simple overs and unders in a collection of edges of four-regular graphs such that bridge/tunnels as well as up and down path segments could automatically be constructed from paths, and accordingly motivate traffic flow diagrams, Celtic knots, and Borromean rings. Maybe we'll build one. BTW, try making some of the diagrams in the above survey of Venn diagrams. You'll find a good sampling of large realms of 2D content that SVG is quite ill prepared, at present, to handle very well! Along those lines, feComposite and feBlend (with feImage inside) are remarkably ill supported by extant browsers! Try any colors other than the six primaries in the example at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/Vplay1.svg to see bit of what I mean. Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] more on knots and traffic jams
A while back, some of us had discussions about traffic jams and knots. I had posted something that was sorta cute, Israel Eisenberg and G. Wade Johnson came up with some improvements as I recall. Well here's another version, borrowing some of each: http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/knot1.svg The moving vehicle has a mask applied to it that has bridge/tunnels that blink from bridge to tunnel. The problem is the non-rectangular crossing. Is there any way to bevel the end of a stroke? The problem of multiple vehicles having different speeds is still a huge one. I've been thinking that it would be fun to have a construct, sort of like a diagram (owing some of its definitional construct to the Venn and Euler diagrams - see http://theory.cs.uvic.ca/~cos/venn/VennEJC.html ) . It would allow the identification of simple overs and unders in a collection of edges of four-regular graphs such that bridge/tunnels as well as up and down path segments could automatically be constructed from paths, and accordingly motivate traffic flow diagrams, Celtic knots, and Borromean rings. Maybe we'll build one. BTW, try making some of the diagrams in the above survey of Venn diagrams. You'll find a good sampling of large realms of 2D content that SVG is quite ill prepared, at present, to handle very well! Along those lines, feComposite and feBlend (with feImage inside) are remarkably ill supported by extant browsers! Try any colors other than the six primaries in the example at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/Vplay1.svg to see bit of what I mean. Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] ie9 and foreign namespace attributes
For IE9 (and presumably IE10 as well), the HTML document has to have the HTML5 doctype declaration: !DOCTYPE html. It should work just fine after that. regards David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of krugerboy1971 Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:42 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] ie9 and foreign namespace attributes I've got an HTML document with some inline SVG svg id=mapWindow xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; viewBox=79895.9 -55.7449 664697 664697 g xmlns:fme=http://www.safe.com/fme; transform=translate(0,664586) scale(1, -1) path id=E0627 fme:NAME=Torbay d=M 292888,54358.5 L 290285.../path .../g .../svg I'm using the fme: namespace here to store the name of a polygon to save me looking it up elsewhere - works fine everywhere except in IE9 which is not recognising it. Elsewhere, I'd quite like to create attributes using this namespace (e.g fme:Count) - again, works on other browsers except IE. Has anybody got any suggestions for forcing IE9 to recognise this or do I need to avoid foreign namespace attributes to ensure maximum browser compatibility? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: ie9 and foreign namespace attributes
Hi Alan,
My own experiments with HTML5 as a container for SVG persuade me that it's
not quite ready for prime time yet. HTML5 has some good ideas but hasn't yet
quite congealed I think. If I want the few goodies that HTML has to offer
that SVG doesn't yet (flowing text and tables), then I tend nowadays to use
object (or embed if IE6-8 support is important), with a separate SVG
document. The inline stuff is just too inconsistent across browsers, and
ideological objections to SVG from among the HTML5 cowboys are
well-established, so it may requiring either waiting a spell or casting one
'til consistency is achieved.
The little experiment at http://granite.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/svginHTML.html
shows some DOM methods working somewhat consistently across browsers I
think.
See also http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2011Sep/0087.html and
the follow on for some allied discussion.
Doug Schepers offers the following explanation about setAttributeNS and
setAttribute:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/message/64106
I think the simple explanation is that the latter should work in the context
of the SVG document alone; Doug recommends using getAttributeNS in the
context of xlink:href, but I'm not quite sure how that translates into the
still evolving world of HTML5.
Other folks may have had better luck with HTML5 and SVG and may well have
other answers, but my experiments suggest hesitation is prudent.
Cheers
David
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of krugerboy1971
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 5:01 PM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [svg-developers] Re: ie9 and foreign namespace attributes
The plot thickens - i.e. this seems nuts - even with David's Doctype
suggestion, I can't determine a cross-browser method of retrieving an
attribute with a foreign namespace. IE9 seems to use a DOM1 method(1),
safari/ff work with a method that I wouldn't expect to work (2) while the
method that seems to be endorsed officially
(3)(http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/resources/svgprimer.html#getAttribute)
doesn't seem to work in any of them.
Am I missing something obvious?
!DOCTYPE html
html
head
meta http-equiv=X-UA-Compatible content=IE=9/
script
function doCircle(evt)
{
var theCircle = evt.target;
var myName=theCircle.getAttribute(fme:COUNT);//1-works in ie9, not ff or
safari
//var myName = theCircle.getAttributeNS(null,fme:COUNT);//2-works in
safari,ff,but not ie9
//var myName =
theCircle.getAttributeNS(http://www.safe.com,fme:COUNT;);//3-works in
nothing
alert(myName);
}
/script
/head
body
svg width=300px height=300px xmlns:fme=http://www.safe.com;
text x=25 y=50 font-size=24SVG Circle Element/text
text x=25 y=275Click the circle to change its size./text
circle cx=125 fme:COUNT=20 cy=150 r=50 fill=pink stroke=green
stroke-width=5 onclick=doCircle(evt) /
/svg
/body
/html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[svg-developers] Diagrams for additive and subtractive color
See http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/V1.svg This represents two Venn diagrams illustrating the additive and subtractive color models. (using 3 circles rather than the seven paths used at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SubtractiveColor.svg ) Because of the way feImage is used with feBlend, only Opera seems to display these in a way consistent with my expectations. The filtering I've used ended up being a bit more complex than I would have hoped, so I have a question (Q) and a statement (S): -- Q. Can anyone think of a simpler way to do this than they way I've done it? It works and I think this is how it should be, though I have a pair of filters defined for each Venn diagram while it seems like one should suffice.( I consider the solution at Wikipedia to be simply wrong for any of a zillion reasons that I realize do not appeal to some people, but most of those reasons have to do with accessibility broadly defined.) --- S. My experiments with feComposite to try to accomplish the same thing were remarkably unsuccessful, with the exception being the additive color model shown here: http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/V2.svg The inconsistency of Opera, ASV, and the spec (as noted somewhat at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2011Nov/0096.html ) I will hope to make some of those experiments visible to the SVG WG sometime soon. Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] How to file bug reports in all the different browsers
Hey thanks, Michael. This is the first time I've seen these all in one place. I must remember to leave a trail for myself to find these again! Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of meikelneu Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 5:52 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] How to file bug reports in all the different browsers --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , David Dailey ddailey@... wrote: I can't remember how to file bug reports in all the different browsers - they seem intent on making sure that only devotees are allowed to complain, David I can feel your pain, but on the other hand we should be happy that there are multiple browser vendors active and listening and at least for webkit the process is very transparent. For your reference and others https://bugs.webkit.org/ https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/ https://bugs.opera.com/wizard/ http://connect.microsoft.com/IE Michael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: access svg elements from HTML5
I haven't had a chance to look at your question at all and was glad to see Jake had some suggestions. Just anecdotally, I've noticed that a lot of things governing the relationship between HTML5 (as it is ambiguously termed in the world at large) and SVG that were somewhat predictable in HTML-SVG discourse, are remarkably dysfunctional across browsers. I think much of this is due to the fact that HTML5 is not yet a stable recommendation. You might want to test to see if what you're doing works anywhere. Sometimes one uses getSVGDocument()instead of contentDocument (see http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/resources/svgprimer.html#scripting_HTML ).. I used to think of contentDocument as something that was only implemented in one or two browsers, while in the traditional HTML - SVG world, getSVGDocument() was the way to go. You might fool around with that and be sure to check out alternative browsers, since they all seem to have different ideas about many of these issues at present. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diana Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:27 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: access svg elements from HTML5 Hi Jake, Thanks for your reply. But the svg has already loaded, because it's displayed, and I push a button to execute the code that is trying to get it. Plus, this line: var a = document.getElementById(dialSvg); works well, the result is a HTMLEmbedElement. I checked what is defined in this HTMLEmbedElement, there is no contentDocument defined, thus, the following line: var svgDoc = a.contentDocument; returns null. Any idea? Many thanks -Diana --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , Jacob Beard jbeard4@... wrote: This is a pretty common question, and I think it needs to go in an FAQ somewhere. The reason why it's not currently working in your code snippet is that the SVG document inside the embed is not yet loaded. You need to add a load listener to wait for it. You can find a solution for this here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2753732/how-to-access-svg-elements-with-j avascript/3379830#3379830 Jake On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 8:01 PM, Diana diana.perpignan@... wrote: ** Hello all, I am very new to svg. I am trying to access an element (defined by id) in a svg file from HTML5, using jquery if possible, but it's not successful. Here is part of the code: *** svg definition: svg version=1.1 id=Layer_1 xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; xmlns:xlink= http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink; x=0px y=0px width=100% height=100% viewBox=0 0 100 100 enable-background=new 0 0 100 100 xml:space=preserve path id=dial fill=#F7941E d=M89.944,50c0-22.091-17.908-40-40-40c-22.092,0-40,17.909-40,40c0,22.092,17 .908,40,40,40V50 H89.944z/ /svg In HTML embed src='dial.svg' type='image/svg+xml' id=dialSvg/ // the following code is from online reading var a = document.getElementById(dialSvg); // this line is okay, the result is HTMLEmbedElement var svgDoc = a.contentDocument; // but contentDocument is not even defined in HTMLEmbedElement var d = svgDoc.getElementById(dial); ** Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks Diana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Bounding box bug in webkit
http://granite.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/B/bbox2.3.svg Both Safari and Chrome miscalculate the bounding box in this example rather dramatically. The other browsers (IE, Opera, FF, and ASV) all seem okay. I can't remember how to file bug reports in all the different browsers - they seem intent on making sure that only devotees are allowed to complain, but perhaps one of you devotees might see it in your hearts to pass it along to those good folks working on webkit SVG? I could just point them to a few score of examples where webkit fails, but that would apparently be too easy. Thanks David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Scaling from center point of element
As often as I've seen this question in the past n years (for some n k) I'd have to resurrect the suggestion that scaling and rotation relative to the center be added to the spec: transform=scale(2, centroid) or transform=rotate(90, BBCenter) , or something like it, just oughta make sense. In the meantime, see http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/resources/svgprimer.html#multiple for the basics and http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/newstuff/transformRotate1.svg for doing it with animateTransform. additive=sum is the magical key that unlocks the door! I hope this helps Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gjella Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 7:17 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Scaling from center point of element Hi! I'm having trouble scaling a g-tag from center point. The item will grow right/bottom, but I need to scale the element from its center point, growing in all directions. I'm using the animateTransform for scaling: animateTransform attributeName=transform attributeType=XML type=scale from=1 to=1.5 dur=3s fill=freeze/ I've read scaling from center point is not supported in SVG, but I refuse to believe this is true. Up to now I have compensated the bottom/right positioning with an additional translate-animation, but this is nasty :/. Anyone done this? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] SVG performance: DOM vs CSS
Some friends and I have had this discussion of late: is script (involving lots of DOM manipulation) or CSS (involving script) for efficient in terms of browser implementation. I can imagine thought experiments to resolve the issue, but the results would only prove things in certain dreams (albeit good ones). Does anyone know of any systematic studies that pit DOM against CSS when it comes to browser performance? What would things be like in the mobile world? The last time (2008) that I studied mobile performance with SVG -DOM (http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/Benchmarks.htm ), the i-phone didn't do so well, but I suspect that things may have changed in the post ASV-world, and, of course, CSS support for SVG was even more fledgling then than now that the CSS-ers have decided to annex SVG (with no response from the League of Nations). Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] eggs revisited
The example at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/eggcloning3.svg represents one of my first attempts (circa 2004) to create a non-trivial bit of dynamic SVG. It worked as I hoped and designed in IE/ASV. Later as newfangled implementations of SVG came along like Opera and Firefox, I fixed the parts that prevented it from being standards compliant, and eventually, wearing all the patience I could muster, it began to work in other browsers.. Sort of. Basically the user interface is patterned after the modal or context sensitive interfaces pioneered in the pre-Apple GUI environment of the PLATO system (Apple got more than a few things wrong, btw, but then so did Xerox - I think they were in a hurry): clicking one place does one thing; somewhere else does something else. All drawing programs should be like this, I believe. Clicking and dragging is different than clicking. Anyhow, the colors of the eggs in IE/ASV (you really should keep ASV current on your machines somewhere since in 7.34 percent of cases it is the only bug-less browser implementation of SVG and remains the only way you can actually see things!) are rich in iron and show the influence of free-range chickens. The Opera eggs, the Firefox eggs, the WebKit eggs and the Microsoft eggs all look like the chickens were raised in cages with their beaks clipped, fed steroids and stimulants to increase egg-laying and never given a chance to stretch their legs. You know what? I think that is an ASV bug with the way the filter influences the chroma. Okay, so maybe ASV wasn't perfect! [I can adjust that, though, with a little bit of RNA, to make the eggs look farm-raised - the average consumer palette will never know.] However, notice the way the eggs slide over the gradients in ASV. Each egg slithers up and down the gradient. In Opera, the first egg seems to determine the movement of all the others (unless you kill the first egg, and then the others seem to gain a bit of personality). The slithering just isn't right! Is it me and ASV or is it Opera? Firefox and Safari are no use as they don't try to deform the darn eggs at all, and Chrome (true to its name) pretends each egg is the Starship Enterprise and floats them about like Federation starcruisers in the game Empire (also a Plato thing - I will have you know I was third-ranked in the world at that game in the late 1970's!). So the question does sort of matter - is the deformation we see in Opera or in ASV correct here? A simpler case may be seen at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/svgopen2008/bouncing3.svg Note how Opera seems to deform the purple ball before it gets to the gradient, almost the way Chrome does. (Safari is just goofy, and FF and IE don't even try to play the game). Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] favorite SVG demos/examples
Hi folks, I'm giving a presentation on SVG soon (in India) and wondered if you could point me to some of your favorite examples of SVG in action. I'm particularly interested in examples that are easy to demo, but which demonstrate some nice interactivity with server-side data. I used to use the Crime and Poverty example from carto.net but it seems to have stopped working for me recently. Thanks in advance, David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: Scaling behaviour and the browser
That is consistent with my observations as well. I dont think Chrome has yet implemented SMIL à script activities. Of the approximately 80 tests contained in the first 60 links (excluding # 37) at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/2011/Galorie.html , Chrome passes 35/80. Safari does worse than Chrome but handles some text issues better than Chrome at present. I understand those will eventually break, as well, to follow Chromes lead. By comparison Firefox does 56/80; Opera 11.52 does 73/80 and Opera 12 (build 1191) does 41/80 Im a bit worried about Opera since they seem to have reinterpreted the spec in ways that break things that worked for many years in earlier versions, as well as in ASV and Firefox. The notion that if you code something to work in two or three browsers then it is probably right seems to be coming unraveled a bit. regards David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cremnosedum Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 1:01 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Scaling behaviour and the browser Hi, I've found that in Chrome, some SMIL produces error messages (these are generated by a Javascript function with try catch). I've also found that SMIL animations don't trigure other SMIL or Javascript when they should. Richard Pearman http://www.pixelpalaces.com/ The next stage in the evolution of web comics: http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/details/listing.php?comicID=4415 Read my Helium articles: http://www.helium.com/users/212199 South Alberta Cactus and succulent society: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20360241008 Make money from discussing things: http://www.myLot.com?ref=Graptopetalum --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com , Marty Sullivan dark3251@... wrote: James, we know how to look at source code. You need to address specifically what does not work for you in Chrome, I don't have time to do that for you. Like I said, every SMIL feature I've used in Chrome works just fine and I remember watching SMIL support grow in Webkit around a year ago when the Acid3 test included SMIL, so it obviously supports it. On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 4:54 PM, jamesd jcdeering1@... wrote: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Keep shapes and lines connected when moved
What you've described sounds a bit like the graph editor at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/grapher/ . It worked in all five browsers in 2009, but some of them seem to have been intent on making sure this remains no longer the case, I think. You could also use parts of SVG edit (which google) since it has path editing capabilities. Then there is the Wisemapping project from Argentina, that allows a lot of diversity in the set of nodes and links that are assembled. All three are open source, I believe. Also D3 is a pretty powerful library with a module that understands connectivity (in the graph theoretic sense) and is able to translate that into force attractors. That could be of some help. You might want to read up on Doug Schepers connectors proposal for SVG - the connectivity discussed there is logical rather than physical, but it seems likely to become a part of the future spec so developing in accordance with it would make some sense. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pradeeps_20002000 Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 9:28 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Keep shapes and lines connected when moved Hello, I would appreciate if some one could guide me as to how to keep shapes connected with a line / poly line / mulch-segmented line ( lines connected to each other)? Specifically: 1: I should be able to connect multiple lines to each other making angles and stick figures. Shape and line combination ( like circle linked to st. line tangent) 2: Should be able to connect / reconnect them at different edit points on the shapes/lines. 3: Keep them connected when on one of the connected partner is moved. Please let me resources/code or library which will help me to accomplish such task. Thank you, [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] SVG for android?
Does anyone know if it is possible to get an Android cell phone to support SVG? Near as I can tell the thing makes a decent cell phone, but despite my recent upgrade of the system software, it still doesn't display the most basic of SVG documents. Do I need to use Opera Mobile instead of whatever dysfunctional version of Chrome that they've shipped with the thing? Or is there a magical upgrade that I need to push special buttons to activate? Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] SVG for android?
Thanks Jeff. It looks like I bought mine about 5 months too early. Sigh! David -Original Message- From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Schiller Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 2:04 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] SVG for android? Any phone with Ice Cream Sandwich (ICS), the newest release of Android, has SVG support in the browser. Any tablet that has, I think, Honeycomb also has browser support for SVG. Also, Firefox and Opera have downloads for Android. Jeff On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 10:59 AM, David Dailey ddai...@zoominternet.netwrote: ** Does anyone know if it is possible to get an Android cell phone to support SVG? Near as I can tell the thing makes a decent cell phone, but despite my recent upgrade of the system software, it still doesn't display the most basic of SVG documents. Do I need to use Opera Mobile instead of whatever dysfunctional version of Chrome that they've shipped with the thing? Or is there a magical upgrade that I need to push special buttons to activate? Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Scaling behaviour and the browser
As I zoom in (using CTRL +), I see what you mean. Opera also, then does not
show the proper hover effect (rolling over to the original image).
I don't see what you mean though at regular levels of zoom.
Certainly this is a bug in at least some browsers, if not an
underspecification by the spec - these areas of HTML-CSS-SVG interaction
seem to be rather frontiersy at present.
I have found a goodly number of examples recently in which the degradation
of vectors into pixels happens with exactly the opposite ordering (Opera
best, Chrome/Safari worst), and that is staying within the relatively
civilized parts of SVG (like filters and patterns and so forth).
I find that one must almost be a member of an implementation team to figure
out where in the spec something might be covered. HTML5 has, it seems,
popularized the notion that one should read at least six specs (HTML5, DOM,
DOM events, CSS, SVG and XFORMS) before one can figure out if something is
consistent with the spec or not, but if it were otherwise, what would we
have to grouse about?
In your case, I think it has to do with the way browsers are left to their
own devices for zoom level specification - when you say
#wrapper{position:absolute; padding:1em 1em 0 2em; top:20px;
left:100px;width:300px; background:lightgrey url(spriteN.svg) 3px 30px
no-repeat; border-radius:.5em;}
#wrapper:hover{background-position:3px -160px}
It looks like you are just changing the locus of the background rather than
changing the url of the image, and browsers seem to be left to their own in
terms of how pan and zoom are specified, which means, I think, that you'd
have to script this, to get them all to agree.
Rather than handling this sort of animation through CSS sprite sheets
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprite_%28computer_graphics%29#Sprites_by_CSS
) as you have, which has the advantage of all drawings being in one file, I
would probably have tried to mimic the effect by doing it all in SVG
(including the CSS) with all instances of the image being at the same locus,
but with their display (none or block) being triggered by mouse hover .
Better yet, use SVG-SMIL which works pretty consistently everywhere where it
is implemented and don't worry about the three years it will take the
browsers and the various specs to see eye-to-eye on CSS-HTML-SVG
communication. Of course that leaves out the one browser that doesn't do
SMIL, but they have said that they're just waiting for people to use SMIL
before they implement it ;) (isn't that what they said?)
Cheers
David
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Andreas
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 3:26 PM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [svg-developers] Scaling behaviour and the browser
I 've created a simple SVG-Sprite and use this via CSS as a background:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1088569/svgsprite.html
If I scale the file, I notice different behavior in browsers.
Only Chrome (and maybe Safari(but i'm not tested this)) show a behaviour
that i expected. Opera and Fox show it blurred as any other non-vector
images.
Is this a bug or a feature?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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RE: [svg-developers] SVG developer wanted to make Online Graphic edit app for printing website
I don't know if you've seen svg-edit or not, but it's open source and pretty stable. Though it might not be what you need, it might be a good starting point for someone. http://code.google.com/p/svg-edit/ good luck, David AT: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 1:03 PM Robinangeloo WROTE: My small company is looking for a SVG developers who can create a custom SVG editing app to embed into our website. The main function is to allow customers to create and edit print ready artwork on the fly. The best I have seen this done is at: http://www.uprinting.com http://www.buildasign.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: Trying to animate two lines moving each other
While you are at it, it might not hurt to try things in both Opera and Firefox. Opera, overall is a bit further ahead than Firefox, I think, in their support for SVG/SMIL, though both are ahead of Chrome and Safari. All four, however, are making progress in their support of the spec. Usually, these days, if code doesn't work in at least two of IE/ASV, Firefox and Opera then it is likely to be a problem with the code. A couple of years ago, it was just Opera and ASV (as well as., to be fair, Batik and Abbra) that we had to test against the spec. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pranav Lal Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 6:20 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [svg-developers] Re: Trying to animate two lines moving each other Hi Robert, Many thanks for this. I read about IE's SVG support and assumed that all features would be supported. I have Firefox installed so will go play with that. Pranav [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Best data visualizations of 2011
I just found this link: http://flowingdata.com/2011/12/21/the-best-data-visualization-projects-of-20 11/ D3 is ranked number one, with a number of other compelling images that some of you may recall having seen. Congrats to Mike Bostock (cc-ed on this) and the others working with D3! David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] test suite evaluation
Someone who is closer to the process may set me straight on how it is done these days, but I recall having discussions with members of the SVG Working Group who argued that test suites should be “automatable” in the sense that the spec should specify exactly how browsers should present content down to the level of pixel-perfect rendering. Others did not seem to feel that way and I don’t know if the issue has been resolved to everyone’s satisfaction. A few things seem to be left at the viewing software’s discretion: how to support text (to call this a zoo at present, would be an understatement), compound filters, and perhaps antialiasing among them. My first foray into cross browser SVG in what must have been the 18th century, revealed enormous differences between Opera’s and ASV’s implementation of filters and much of it was latitude that might have been acceptable under the language of the spec, but would certainly not have been acceptable to an author. The spec has tightened considerably from SVG1.1 (2003) to SVG1.1 (2011) and browser implementations have converged on many issues, excepting a few (text being the most notorious). What does impress me about the test suite is the cleverness of many of the tests – creating situations in which passing the test means, in the end, either displaying something or not. A simple binary outcome that removes much of the judgment. In the Acid 3 tests, complex series of things (for much of the HTML world) were combined, though the SVG tests therein were kept rudimentary to avoid political complications, I suppose. In the end, though the politics proved too much for any attempt at objectivity to prevail and magic won out, once more, over science, as the tests were amended so that everyone could pass and, I suppose, so that shrapnel would not fly. I’m not sure that the same folks who write the specs (largely the companies developing browsers and mobile viewers, with the exception of course of W3C members) are the proper folks to oversee test-suites or evaluations, but so long as no one important fusses, then I suppose all remains cheerful. In truth, it is very hard to convince others to participate in such a “mundane activity” and we are lucky that the members of the SVG Working Group do this relatively thankless work! Jeff Schiller, for years has kept an evaluation of much of the first round of 280 SVG 1.1 tests at http://www.codedread.com/svg-support.php and you’ll note that there is a category of “almost pass” implying some human judgment. Others have spawned some of their own tests (like the CooL tests) and the SVG Interest Group had a healthy initiative for a year or so to create “torture tests” at http://code.google.com/p/svgtorture/ . I have a sense that given any document as complex as the SVG 1.1 (2011) spec, no finite collection of tests will actually evaluate every browser’s (or user agent’s) degree of compliance; the test suite is perhaps more for spec-evaluation than for browser evaluation, and with the competition in the space of “who has the best browser” ultimately boiling down to SVG (despite everyone’s tiptoeing around the issue and pretending that it is all about JavaScript, canvas and the paltry set of things that the HTML5 folks imagined) it will be interesting to see how this all shakes out in years to come. I remember in some of those same conversations with working group members, arguing that improperly administered evaluations could unfairly represent certain browsers, hence setting the stage for complaints that make patent concerns look lighthearted. I am prone to hyperbole, though. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Zdenek Kedaj Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 1:44 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] test suite evaluation I took a look in the official SVG test suites and I wonder the evaluation. Given just a bunch of html and svg files, how do the implementors run and evaluate the tests? Do they have to implement their own evaluation environment? There are also lots of tests that whose result cannot be simply compared with the expected final state SVG, because it matters how was the final state reached (animations etc.). Evaluation of these must be especially hard to automate. Is it done by human beings (not automated)? Please share any insight on how it's done I am curious. Zdeněk [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to:
[svg-developers] removing preserveAspect ratio on HTML object with src = SVG
I have an HTML document divided into two halves: left and right (each taking up 50% of the width of the document). In the right side I have the SVG source code (using a wonderful HTML thingy called a textarea); in the left side I have the document itself, displayed in an object I've tried styling the object to be 100% for both height and width to fill up the entire left half of the window. Alas, the durn thing sets its aspectRatio to be what it gets from the viewBox in the SVG, regardless of the fact that preserveAspectRatio=none has been declared in the SVG. Actually, Opera, Firefox and IE all do this but Webkit behaves the way I would have liked, A bug in O, F and IE? Or do W and I do it wrong? Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: replicate
Hi Richard, In terms of shading, the SVG WG seems to prefer mesh-gradients, though their use as a declarative tool (sans package) seems a bit prohibitive. Nevertheless, it will take some time for SVG 2.0 to be standardized and some time after that for gradient meshes to be implemented in the browsers, and in the meantime one has a pretty broad class of rich gradients available through replicate. Here are some examples I cobbled together in less than an hour this morning (unfortunately, the examples are using a different version of the base code than the trunk since it looks like we broke replicateModifier): http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/gradRep1.svg These examples are fairly simple, using replicateModifier to retrieve the gradient applied to the rectangle and to change the colors in that gradient as the gradient's footprint is changed. Basically, replicateModifier is used to retrieve some of the modifiers of an SVG object (these might, in theory, be gradients, clipPaths, masks, filters, animations, patterns, or even replicates) and to modify those as the other attributes of an object are also modified. * My own sense is that replicate makes it easier for the author, working without a tool, to design custom gradients, but I'd have to agree, that the folks who have cobbled together examples for replicate have been more worried with extending the concepts, building the code and making the examples than with explaining how to do it. One of my students points out that a political mistake we may have made was to display too broad a range of its abilities, overwhelming, perhaps, folks who didn't have time to consider the proposal seriously. On the other hand, Inkscape and Illustrator give access to very rich, customizable gradients - it is just that the code exported for such gradients is not particularly accessible to a human who might later wish to polish it, program with it, or make it accessible to those who, for whatever reason, need access to that geometry, or to search engines of the future and the like. The semantics of replicate, being based on the semantics of animate makes more sense, at least to me. In terms of the declarative randomness, I'm in general agreement. I think fire, water, clouds, and even wood grain (see http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/feTurbulence18.svg -- in either Firefox or Opera or IE/ASV) are perhaps easier with filters since feTurbulence does a nice job of pseudo-randomness with fuzzy things. When it comes to making crisp objects though, ( see for example, http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/feTurbulence19.svg ) feTurbulence is a bit hard to shape into things like grass or hair, and even though we could distort it, post-hoc, by another feTurbulence using feDisplacement (as in http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/feComposite5.svg or http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/feComposite8.svg ) so as to convey a bit of wave or wind to the grain of the grass or hair, it is ultimately going to be easier to just draw a hundred or so proto-hairs into a pattern space with declarative randomness than to try to trick filters into giving us that functionality. I rather get the sense that some are declaring (using non declarative methods) that the golden age of declarative approaches to graphics is all in the past and that all will be henceforth be done with script, CSS and packages - a curious proposition since the packages have not yet been built! While this may appeal to the community of non-authors, I'm not so sure appeals to authors. Regards David *It would be nice if animateModifier were included in SVG 2.0, since it is a natural thing to want to do; I remembered to ask for animatePath to allow more precise control over all attributes of an animated object, but forgot to ask for the more obvious animateModifier. From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cremnosedum Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 1:00 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: replicate Hi, I'd like to use replicate for my web comic, where I'm trying to make things look realistic in SVG. It would be very useful for things like realistically shading complicated shapes. Unfortunately, my big problem so far is that I haven't found a good explanation of how to use it. There are some examples but I haven't had the time or patients to figure out how they work and how to modify them for the space ship parts and things I need. I'm also interested in incorporating declarative randomness - if one wants to generate a few hundred objects into the DOM, why not have them be pseudo random? I think this would be useful for drawing things like hair, grass, woodgrains etc. Might anyone want to help contribute to such an open source project? I would consider it. Richard Pearman http://www.pixelpalaces.com/ The next stage in the evolution of web comics:
RE: [svg-developers] Re: replicate
Yes, I agree, Francis. It is already being deployed in large enterprise projects, as I know from one of my former students now at IBM. As Jon points out he's been experimenting with some uses of replicate-like ideas in D3 already. I also agree with him that it's not clear how much of it could be added into D3. For example the replicateModifier stuff such as at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/feComposite8.svg and the replicatePath stuff (e.g. http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/pathRep2JS.svg ) require awareness of the SVG DOM, but D3 is clearly very powerful already and is teeming with new development. Learning how to use D3 is next on my list of projects, once the current list frees up a bit! Of course, replicate like animate is intended as a declarative approach, so adding replicate to D3 would not likely mean discontinuing development of it by itself. Having a solution that enables our IE brethren (and sistren) to actually see existing SMIL content would be quite a nice gesture. Cheers David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Francis Hemsher Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:59 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: replicate David Wrote: a) The Working Group recently decided [3] not to adopt replicate, unless it is accompanied by concrete use cases and demonstration of author/implementor interest. Hi David, For the past few weeks I have been evaluating the d3 Javascript library that is used to generate SVG from data. I believe it will be substantially employed within svg enterprise projects. I would like to suggest that the replicate .js library file could make a nice addition to the d3 library. This would most assuredly demonstrate is usability. Regards, Francis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Replicate
A fascinating point Bob! I wonder if this sort of projection along the t axis is actually under consideration by them. Alternatively, for someone who didn't want to implement animate, wouldn't putting replicate in the spec yield, for them, animate, by just projecting z along time? regards David From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Hopgood Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 10:20 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Replicate I think the functionality proposed by the replicate element is definitely of interest even if it is only used by animators to visualise their animations ;-) David has pointed out already that everybody other than Microsoft has already implemented all the required functionality. As the WG is proposing to add a viewing transformation to SVG, my query is whether there is a need for a new replicate element? If you assume SVG drawings currently exist in a 3D space of x,y and t and the WG is proposing to add a fourth (z) plus a transformation on to a 2D space then, as long as the transformation allows parallel projections along the t-axis, don't we get all we need from animate and calcMode=discrete? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] replicate
Many of you are familiar with the replicate proposal [1,2] that the SVG Working Group has been considering. It is an effort to add declarative drawing (patterned after SVG animate) to SVG. There is news. a) The Working Group recently decided [3] not to adopt replicate, unless it is accompanied by concrete use cases and demonstration of author/implementor interest. b) Eric Elder and I are contemplating expanding the scope of the open source project [4]; it is a small JavaScript program that basically interpolates between values of a variety of attributes, and then adds things to the DOM accordingly. Part A. I'm interested in seeing if other people know about it, and are interested in it, and better yet, if you have used it. To pique your interest take a look at these things: http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/pathRep2JS.svg -- use two curves to define four attributes of an extruded shape. http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/pathRep1JS.svg To reply to the Working Group, I'd like to assemble some sort of a response. Finding that people are using it would be nice (I have gotten the occasional question about it, but have no systematic way of knowing). Finding out if people are intending to use it would be nice. Helping to emumerate use cases would be another good thing. Thus far, I'm thinking of the following use cases, * 3D text effects (e.g. http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/twist1.svg ) * Simulated rotation (like the spinning top at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/SVGOpen2010/demo9.svg or http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/text/replicatePath9.svg ) * Generation of active grids (as for game boards) * Perspective tiling Perspective drawing (as in scenes) http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/replicate/repRectsGrad2g.svg or http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/replicate/repFilter1.2.svg * 3D drawing packages (as in http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/pathRep2JS.svg) * Rich gradients (perhaps we should de-emphasize this in recognition of the WG's decision to go with gradient meshes.) * Quasi random backdrops (leaves, crowds, pebbles, etc) in which objects are replicated using declarative randomness. (see below) Part B. I'm also interested in incorporating declarative randomness - if one wants to generate a few hundred objects into the DOM, why not have them be pseudo random? Values of colors (R G and/or B and H S and/or B) , heights, widths, baseTurbulence, scale, cx, ry, transform/rotate, etc. would all be definable within selected ranges, with either fixed seeds (for repeatable scenes) or unseeded (as with JavaScript's Math.random() ) We've already worked out a fairly efficient algorithm (the first apparently) for generating random polygons [5] , so this would probably be bundled in as well. Use cases: leaves, pebbles, crowds of people, clouds (from feTurbulence with random baseFrequencies), etc. Lots of quasi random backdrops that one doesn't really want to take the time to draw, but which might be desirable for a) non-programming artists or b) machines that run SVG but not JavaScript. And, a perhaps more extensive idea: given that Microsoft has adopted the perspective that they will wait until user demand for declarative animation grows* (and some possible migration of such into CSS), we are considering expanding the scope of the code base for replicate to include animate as well. It would sort of be like taking on much of what SMILScript and FakeSMIL have done. The idea is that so long as we are already interpolating via JavaScript between a half zillion types of attribute values, why not just parse out animate and animateMotion tags as well? Might anyone want to help contribute to such an open source project? Dash off an email about this (davidDotdaileyAtsruDotedu) Cheers David [1] proposal - http://svgopen.org/2010/papers/46-A_proposal_for_adding_declarative_drawing_ to_SVG/index.html [2] examples - http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/SVGOpen2010/replicate.htm [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/10/28-svg-minutes.html [4] http://code.google.com/p/svg-replicate/ [5] http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1414592 http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1414592bnc=1 bnc=1 *Emoji and Wikipedia seem to be plausible strategies for propagating animation. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email:
[svg-developers] clouds
http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/feTurbulence11g.svg and http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/feTurbulence11h.svg (Opera is best, FF and ASV both work, but are a bit slow) Cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] feTurbulence stitchTiles=tiles
Domenico Strazzulo wrote: David, unless I'm missing something, I don't see in the spec that stitchTiles can be an attribute of rect. It should be in feTurbulence. According to my experience, if you're using x, y = 0, and width, height = 100%, you get the most homogeneous results with noStitch (FF shows an antialias line of pixels between rects but the stitching is fine). If you use stitch under the same conditions, only Opera gives a visually credible result. FF stiches well but creates a different noise pattern. Incidentally, this is very interesting precisely because you don't get a pattern (the line is still there unfortunately). Chrome repeats the pattern, like Opera, but for the stitching it could really use help from a tailor :) Yes, silly me - I was in a hurry and messed up my cutting and pasting. The examples at http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/feTurbulence5.svg and http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/feTurbulence6.svg now make the proper comparison. As you say it looks like all three of these browsers are trying to do something, but what it is and whether or not any of them works consistently with the spec is a bit of a mystery. I'm not sure that all the constraints required here can be satisfied, and it seems like both FF and Opera may have settled into some sort of local minimum in the smoothness function. Thanks for finding the mistake! cheers David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
