Re: [svg-developers] Re: Vote for SVG Support in IE7
I dont know why but I woke up this morning thinking about this vote (probably the bad democratic shape of France ...) I wish as much as everyone does on this list that SVG becomes THE graphic Standard on the web but I am just kind of sceptical about this vote thing : * First : I cant see why democracy rules would apply in such a setting MS calls to vote might hide other purposes ... * Second : Assuming (as it seems) that there is a more or less imminent war between MS and Adobedia around RIA technologies, I cant see why MS would bundle ASV in IE and thus introduce some kind of dependency to Adobe. * Third : However if Adobe finally decides to completely abandon SVG, then including SVG support in IE maybe makes sense strategically ? This would explain why Adobe is so silent about their intent about SVG. Jean-David Jeff Schiller wrote: Francis, Not sure why I'm nominated, but thanks - I guess ;) Anyway, I did send a request to Chris Wilson on his personal blog feedback form for more information regarding SVG in IE and in particular what was said about SVG and IE at MIX06. I never received a reply, I assume he's swamped. However, tonight the IEBlog did put up links to MIX06 videos (each at 1-hour long). Go read my summary here: http://blog.codedread.com/archives/2006/05/04/the-future-of-internet-explorer-and-web-standards/ there was a small mention of SVG in the middle of one of the videos. Regards, Jeff --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Francis Hemsher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, I've looked at the recent votes, and its at about 185 and continuing. I guess we could go on for the next few months and build this to any number. I think it's time to make a statement to the IEblog, rather than extend this further. I'd like to nominate Jeff Schiller to revisit that blog to present the SVG Developers Statement, based on the comments from the voting list. This statement would assist the IE7 team to make a decision, and see the future if the right decision is made. We can quicky build this statement on this list, giving opportunity for all to provide their input. Francis --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Doug Schepers doug@ wrote: Hi, Francis- Nice work getting this ball rolling. I'm not sure how much affect it will have, but it certainly can't hurt. I also posted this to SVG.org. Francis Hemsher wrote: | | P.S. hopefully we will be a legitimate bug for IE8's native | SVG Object. There will probably be updates between IE7 and IE8... let's hope they include SVG ASAP. Regards- Doug - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Protect your PC from spy ware with award winning anti spy technology. It's free. http://us.click.yahoo.com/97bhrC/LGxNAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Vote for SVG Support in IE7
Jeff Schiller wrote: Anyway, I think it's up to us as SVG developers/evangelists to convince people that SVG is worthwhile and start building out those wow applications. Heck, let's make those applications XHTML+SVG with suggestions to IE users that they can update themselves to one of the free alternatives to use the site (and some screenshots of what they're missing, of course). I think this is one of the most effective ways to convince MS that IE should have native SVG support. Of course, they are moving at a glacial pace, so we'll all probably grow old and die first, but the pressure must be maintained. IE still doesn't have tabbed browsing natively, which I imagine is a trivial addition when compared to SVG support... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- You can search right from your browser? It's easy and it's free. See how. http://us.click.yahoo.com/_7bhrC/NGxNAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: Vote for SVG Support in IE7
Just a note here to indicate a major obstacle/opportunity for SVG in IE. IE does not currently support DOM2 (much less DOM3), and thus many of the methods and consistency of scripting that we are used to in SVG would not be there if IE implemented SVG today. So, while I am definitely hoping that IE will eventually support SVG, I don't think it will happen until they build a new DOM engine. By that same token, when/if they do build it (and they have to, in order to make a competitive modern browser), SVG will be much easier for them to add on top while they are in the process. Overall, I'm optimistic, but I'm prepared to be patient. Regards- Doug Jeff Schiller wrote: | | Francis, | | Not sure why I'm nominated, but thanks - I guess ;) | | Anyway, I did send a request to Chris Wilson on his personal blog | feedback form for more information regarding SVG in IE and in | particular what was said about SVG and IE at MIX06. I never received | a reply, I assume he's swamped. | | However, tonight the IEBlog did put up links to MIX06 videos (each at | 1-hour long). Go read my summary here: | http://blog.codedread.com/archives/2006/05/04/the-future-of-in | ternet-explorer-and-web-standards/ | there was a small mention of SVG in the middle of one of the videos. | | Regards, | Jeff | | --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Francis Hemsher | [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | Hello All, | | I've looked at the recent votes, and its at about 185 and | continuing. | | I guess we could go on for the next few months and build | this to any | number. I think it's time to make a statement to the IEblog, rather | than extend this further. | | I'd like to nominate Jeff Schiller to revisit that blog to present | the SVG Developers Statement, based on the comments from the | voting list. | | This statement would assist the IE7 team to make a | decision, and see | the future if the right decision is made. | | We can quicky build this statement on this list, giving opportunity | for all to provide their input. | | Francis | | --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Doug Schepers doug@ | wrote: | | Hi, Francis- | | Nice work getting this ball rolling. I'm not sure how much affect | it will | have, but it certainly can't hurt. I also posted this to SVG.org. | | Francis Hemsher wrote: | | | | P.S. hopefully we will be a legitimate bug for IE8's native | | SVG Object. | | There will probably be updates between IE7 and IE8... let's hope | they | include SVG ASAP. | | Regards- | Doug | | | | | | | | | | Yahoo! Groups Sponsor | ~-- | Everything you need is one click away. Make Yahoo! your home | page now. | http://us.click.yahoo.com/AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM | -- | --~- | | - | To unsubscribe send a message to: | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | -or- | visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click | edit my membership | | Yahoo! Groups Links | | | | | | | | -- | No virus found in this incoming message. | Checked by AVG Free Edition. | Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release | Date: 5/5/2006 | | Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- You can search right from your browser? It¿s easy and it¿s free. See how. http://us.click.yahoo.com/_7bhrC/NGxNAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Vote for SVG Support in IE7
Just a question related to this: Since they have VML for vector graphics, which looks like SVG, couldn't they reuse some of its implementation for SVG? Jeroen Doug Schepers schreef: Just a note here to indicate a major obstacle/opportunity for SVG in IE. IE does not currently support DOM2 (much less DOM3), and thus many of the methods and consistency of scripting that we are used to in SVG would not be there if IE implemented SVG today. So, while I am definitely hoping that IE will eventually support SVG, I don't think it will happen until they build a new DOM engine. By that same token, when/if they do build it (and they have to, in order to make a competitive modern browser), SVG will be much easier for them to add on top while they are in the process. Overall, I'm optimistic, but I'm prepared to be patient. Regards- Doug Jeff Schiller wrote: | | Francis, | | Not sure why I'm nominated, but thanks - I guess ;) | | Anyway, I did send a request to Chris Wilson on his personal blog | feedback form for more information regarding SVG in IE and in | particular what was said about SVG and IE at MIX06. I never received | a reply, I assume he's swamped. | | However, tonight the IEBlog did put up links to MIX06 videos (each at | 1-hour long). Go read my summary here: | http://blog.codedread.com/archives/2006/05/04/the-future-of-in | ternet-explorer-and-web-standards/ | there was a small mention of SVG in the middle of one of the videos. | | Regards, | Jeff | | --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Francis Hemsher | [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | Hello All, | | I've looked at the recent votes, and its at about 185 and | continuing. | | I guess we could go on for the next few months and build | this to any | number. I think it's time to make a statement to the IEblog, rather | than extend this further. | | I'd like to nominate Jeff Schiller to revisit that blog to present | the SVG Developers Statement, based on the comments from the | voting list. | | This statement would assist the IE7 team to make a | decision, and see | the future if the right decision is made. | | We can quicky build this statement on this list, giving opportunity | for all to provide their input. | | Francis | | --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Doug Schepers doug@ | wrote: | | Hi, Francis- | | Nice work getting this ball rolling. I'm not sure how much affect | it will | have, but it certainly can't hurt. I also posted this to SVG.org. | | Francis Hemsher wrote: | | | | P.S. hopefully we will be a legitimate bug for IE8's native | | SVG Object. | | There will probably be updates between IE7 and IE8... let's hope | they | include SVG ASAP. | | Regards- | Doug | | | | | | | | | | Yahoo! Groups Sponsor | ~-- | Everything you need is one click away. Make Yahoo! your home | page now. | http://us.click.yahoo.com/AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM | -- | --~- | | - | To unsubscribe send a message to: | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | -or- | visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click | edit my membership | | Yahoo! Groups Links | | | | | | | | -- | No virus found in this incoming message. | Checked by AVG Free Edition. | Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release | Date: 5/5/2006 | | - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership SPONSORED LINKS Xml format http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=msk=Xml+formatw1=Xml+formatw2=Svgw3=Formatw4=Datac=4s=47.sig=VBa7nBOoFldLj1xsnDMzkQ Svg http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=msk=Svgw1=Xml+formatw2=Svgw3=Formatw4=Datac=4s=47.sig=a1u0zJydFxGsmrBvlURQ4w Format http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=msk=Formatw1=Xml+formatw2=Svgw3=Formatw4=Datac=4s=47.sig=sfOdgu_KzJjmF4YOGYLFuw Data http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=msk=Dataw1=Xml+formatw2=Svgw3=Formatw4=Datac=4s=47.sig=aV25K06F7rKa6A2bKQrzpA YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group svg-developers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Everything you need is one click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Vote for SVG Support in IE7
On 5/6/06, Doug Schepers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a note here to indicate a major obstacle/opportunity for SVG in IE. IE does not currently support DOM2 (much less DOM3), and thus many of the methods and consistency of scripting that we are used to in SVG would not be there if IE implemented SVG today. So, while I am definitely hoping that IE will eventually support SVG, I don't think it will happen until they build a new DOM engine. By that same token, when/if they do build it (and they have to, in order to make a competitive modern browser), SVG will be much easier for them to add on top while they are in the process. Overall, I'm optimistic, but I'm prepared to be patient. Regards- Doug Jeff Schiller wrote: I agreed on that. To me; as the situation right now it seem to be hopeless for IE to bundle ASV. I don't think MS is not going to consider to do it until at least it get then firm commitment ASV's side; beside logistical and cost affect of the move. I do not advocate for mine, but just try inject some vitamins into this pessimistic environment -I think ?. - And also it too excit for not to say something about it, Since it very first approach all SVG players: ADOBE, FF, Batik. . . stay the direction where SVG as a 'Child development platform it is very much ind pendent from other element of the DOM tree so that why it stay in 'specialty product' this make me rethink on this issue. Believe or not making IE to support SVG is hard even it is harder than making browserS (big S). that run on windows platform I think by the end of next week I will have a link for you play with the different but paint less approach to the SVG saga. I assure you it will make your live much easier then you think. It is simple as this: img src=SVGdata:File/Load;charset=US-ASCII,SIG=abcd, http://YourDomain.com/images/Your.svg; . . . or: YourImg.src=SVGdata:Data/Load;charset=US-ASCII,SIG=abcd, +SvgXMLDocument.ToString(); Thru (AJAX but run locally at client side) you will have much more available information of that image.such as the absolute color of a pixel on your img . . . From there you will process all event as if it is the normal html. Cheers. PHI. (Just a note: If -as the community- If you decide to use it then you guy should come up with some kind of escrow to make it become public if thing happen to me or mine causing us not continue further- You never know. And also to ensure that you WILL not going to be hung). | | Francis, | | Not sure why I'm nominated, but thanks - I guess ;) | | Anyway, I did send a request to Chris Wilson on his personal blog | feedback form for more information regarding SVG in IE and in | particular what was said about SVG and IE at MIX06. I never received | a reply, I assume he's swamped. | | However, tonight the IEBlog did put up links to MIX06 videos (each at | 1-hour long). Go read my summary here: | http://blog.codedread.com/archives/2006/05/04/the-future-of-in | ternet-explorer-and-web-standards/ | there was a small mention of SVG in the middle of one of the videos. | | Regards, | Jeff | | --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Francis Hemsher | [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | Hello All, | | I've looked at the recent votes, and its at about 185 and | continuing. | | I guess we could go on for the next few months and build | this to any | number. I think it's time to make a statement to the IEblog, rather | than extend this further. | | I'd like to nominate Jeff Schiller to revisit that blog to present | the SVG Developers Statement, based on the comments from the | voting list. | | This statement would assist the IE7 team to make a | decision, and see | the future if the right decision is made. | | We can quicky build this statement on this list, giving opportunity | for all to provide their input. | | Francis | | --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Doug Schepers doug@ | wrote: | | Hi, Francis- | | Nice work getting this ball rolling. I'm not sure how much affect | it will | have, but it certainly can't hurt. I also posted this to SVG.org. | | Francis Hemsher wrote: | | | | P.S. hopefully we will be a legitimate bug for IE8's native | | SVG Object. | | There will probably be updates between IE7 and IE8... let's hope | they | include SVG ASAP. | | Regards- | Doug | | | | | | | | | | Yahoo! Groups Sponsor | ~-- | Everything you need is oneclick away. Make Yahoo! your home | pagenow. | http://us.click.yahoo.com/AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM | -- | --~- | | - | To unsubscribe send a message to: | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | -or- | visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click | edit my membership | | Yahoo! Groups Links | | | | | | | | -- | No virus found in this
RE: [svg-developers] Re: Vote for SVG Support in IE7
Hi, Francis- Nice work getting this ball rolling. I'm not sure how much affect it will have, but it certainly can't hurt. I also posted this to SVG.org. Francis Hemsher wrote: | | P.S. hopefully we will be a legitimate bug for IE8's native | SVG Object. There will probably be updates between IE7 and IE8... let's hope they include SVG ASAP. Regards- Doug - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Vote for SVG Support in IE7
Hi Andreas, i think you were on the right way. It took me another 2 minutes to apply for the programm Internet Explorer Feedback(Has to be done once), and then i got to the many different votes. (The date 3/21 stands for Start of Application, and not for End of Application) Once you´re logged in and applied for the programme, you can take the easy way and get directly to the SVG-Vote over the following link from Jeff: https://connect.microsoft.com/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?SiteID=136FeedbackID=54028 https://connect.microsoft.com/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?SiteID=136FeedbackID=54028 Cheers, Rolf Andreas Neumann schrieb: I actually wanted to give feedback, but didn't manage. They made me to create a ms passport (which I avoided so far). After creating that passport I came to a listing of programs which told me to apply for a program. What should I do here? Just wanted to give feedback. Also the program for internet explorer was already expired on 3/21 Is there an easy link to get to this feedback page or an advice to get there directly? Andreas --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Francis Hemsher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Internet Explorer 7 team is now taking input on how to support SVG in the final build of IE7, and also looking to ideas for IE8. You can cast a vote and add commments directly to that team. See: https://connect.microsoft.com/default.aspx (To vote and comment takes a few moments to join the Microsoft Passport Network) Francis - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
