Re: [swinog] Huge retry delays in mail from Sunrise
On Tuesday 27. March 2007, Stanislav Sinyagin wrote: hi, Hi Stan We use the email greylisting policy for incoming email for us and our customers, and it appears that often the email from Sunrise network comes with huge delays, from several hours to several days. Yeah greylisting... :-) Did anyone else see such problems? Yes we've seen this from smtp-auth-be-01.sunrise.ch, too. Guys from Sunrise, plase contact me directly for more details and troubleshooting. Spam is evil. Very evil. It turns email unreliable. But is it the right treatement to add more unreliability? That's what makes greylistings questionable. cheers, Michi -- George Orwell was an optimist. ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Huge retry delays in mail from Sunrise
Stanislav Sinyagin wrote: We use the email greylisting policy for incoming email for us and our customers, and it appears that often the email from Sunrise network comes with huge delays, from several hours to several days. Did anyone else see such problems? Guys from Sunrise, plase contact me directly for more details and troubleshooting. Why bother greylisting someone who you know will be retrying anyway? Just add the sunrise mail servers to your whitelist. /Per -- /Per Jessen, Zürich ENIDAN Technologies GmbH - managed email-security. ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
RE: [swinog] Huge retry delays in mail from Sunrise
Stanislav Sinyagin wrote: We use the email greylisting policy for incoming email for us and our customers, and it appears that often the email from Sunrise network comes with huge delays, from several hours to several days. Did anyone else see such problems? Guys from Sunrise, plase contact me directly for more details and troubleshooting. Just a guess: The more retries to a certain SMTP destination, the longer the retry interval...leads to exponential delivery times. Pure greylisting is - just like blacklistsing - is useless or leads to unexpected behavior without a well-maintained and monitored whitelist for a corporate or ISP e-mail system. Up to each engineer what he is using for his own private or business server - but this is a different pair of shoes. -Kurt. ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
RE: [swinog] Huge retry delays in mail from Sunrise
--- Kurt A. Schumacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a guess: The more retries to a certain SMTP destination, the longer the retry interval...leads to exponential delivery times. no, it's quite sporadic: some emails are retried wihtin 10 minutes, and some were delaying for hours. Pure greylisting is - just like blacklistsing - is useless or leads to unexpected behavior without a well-maintained and monitored whitelist for a corporate or ISP e-mail system. it is actually a well-maintained whitelist, but of course sometimes exceptions happen... ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
[swinog] Whitelist website
What about a whitelist website, every ISP could enter the IPs of his MTA's and everybody could use for his whitelisting? Radek MrskosEmail[EMAIL PROTECTED] volume.ch Tel:+41 43 534 40 24 Baechlerstr. 12 Mob:+41 79 219 68 66 CH-8802 Kilchberg Fax:+41 86079 2196 866 PGP:0x8CB69F6D URL:http://volume.ch ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Huge retry delays in mail from Sunrise
--- Per Jessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why bother greylisting someone who you know will be retrying anyway? Just add the sunrise mail servers to your whitelist. of course I did. But I think it's better to resolve the problem at its source :) ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Whitelist website
Hello, Given the fact that there are many ISPs who volontarily provide IP's for Spamming purposes this won't work. Given the fact that there are ISPs like T-Online, where SPAM IS a problem, this might fail. Sorry, but I don't think that this would work at all... CU Tobias Radek Mrskos wrote: What about a whitelist website, every ISP could enter the IPs of his MTA's and everybody could use for his whitelisting? Radek Mrskos Email[EMAIL PROTECTED] volume.ch Tel:+41 43 534 40 24 Baechlerstr. 12 Mob:+41 79 219 68 66 CH-8802 Kilchberg Fax:+41 86079 2196 866 PGP:0x8CB69F6DURL:http://volume.ch ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Whitelist website
Am Dienstag, 27. März 2007 14.32 schrieb Radek Mrskos: What about a whitelist website, every ISP could enter the IPs of his MTA's and everybody could use for his whitelisting? s/ISP/spamer/g :-) But we already operate the SWINOG Whitelist for this purpose. Feel free to send us Mailserver Ranges still missing in this whitelist. = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mit freundlichen Grüssen Benoit Panizzon -- I m p r o W a r e A G-System Services __ Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel +41 61 826 93 00 CH-4133 PrattelnFax +41 61 826 93 01 Schweiz Web http://www.imp.ch __ pgp8crfhOA7u6.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
AW: [swinog] Whitelist website
Something like whitelist.swinog.ch - swinog controlled whitelist swiss ISP only -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Tobias Goeller Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. März 2007 14:38 An: swinog@swinog.ch; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [swinog] Whitelist website Hello, Given the fact that there are many ISPs who volontarily provide IP's for Spamming purposes this won't work. Given the fact that there are ISPs like T-Online, where SPAM IS a problem, this might fail. Sorry, but I don't think that this would work at all... CU Tobias Radek Mrskos wrote: What about a whitelist website, every ISP could enter the IPs of his MTA's and everybody could use for his whitelisting? Radek Mrskos Email[EMAIL PROTECTED] volume.ch Tel:+41 43 534 40 24 Baechlerstr. 12 Mob:+41 79 219 68 66 CH-8802 Kilchberg Fax:+41 86079 2196 866 PGP:0x8CB69F6DURL:http://volume.ch ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: AW: [swinog] Whitelist website
Am Dienstag, 27. März 2007 14.49 schrieb Radek Mrskos: Something like whitelist.swinog.ch - swinog controlled whitelist swiss ISP only Of course, but you got the hostname wrong. It's http://dnswl.swinog.ch aka http://antispam.imp.ch/swinog-dnsrbl-whitelist But not only Swiss Mailservers, this would be a bit useless :-) Mit freundlichen Grüssen Benoit Panizzon -- I m p r o W a r e A G-System Services __ Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel +41 61 826 93 00 CH-4133 PrattelnFax +41 61 826 93 01 Schweiz Web http://www.imp.ch __ pgpCLm8BRmxdR.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: AW: [swinog] Whitelist website
Well, In my point of view this makes about the same sense as if we'd take the decision to start up something like a new standard for inter-ISP-communications (ever thought about IPv7, maybe IPv7.25?) - for switzerland only. This would just move the source of the problem to another point - but would not help solve the problem: SPAM. Sorry, but the internet is a medium almost without any fences and doors. The whitelist would be enhanced soon by entries for german ISPs who are partners of swiss ISPs, soon then there will be all german ISPs in (and the french, and the italian, and so on). At the end we would have a 4-TB Oracle Database with the IPs of any ISPs mail server system - just for a whitelist... hmmm. Why don't we start up a second RIPE? Sponsors? The swinog mailinglist has a whitelist already - and if you're trying to reach someone participating you already have two ways of how to get in touch with who you want to contact: direct mail or via list. CU Tobias Radek Mrskos wrote: Something like whitelist.swinog.ch - swinog controlled whitelist swiss ISP only -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Tobias Goeller Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. März 2007 14:38 An: swinog@swinog.ch; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [swinog] Whitelist website Hello, Given the fact that there are many ISPs who volontarily provide IP's for Spamming purposes this won't work. Given the fact that there are ISPs like T-Online, where SPAM IS a problem, this might fail. Sorry, but I don't think that this would work at all... CU Tobias Radek Mrskos wrote: What about a whitelist website, every ISP could enter the IPs of his MTA's and everybody could use for his whitelisting? Radek Mrskos Email[EMAIL PROTECTED] volume.chTel:+41 43 534 40 24 Baechlerstr. 12 Mob:+41 79 219 68 66 CH-8802 KilchbergFax:+41 86079 2196 866 PGP:0x8CB69F6D URL:http://volume.ch ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: AW: [swinog] Whitelist website
Tobias Goeller wrote: Well, In my point of view this makes about the same sense as if we'd take the decision to start up something like a new standard for inter-ISP-communications (ever thought about IPv7, maybe IPv7.25?) - for switzerland only. Actually, in .nl this is done. All the known ISP's have registered MX's. This way one can whitelist those MX's in the local anti-spam system: http://noc.bit.nl/dnsbl/nlwhitelist/ It is indeed not very scalable, but it avoids the blacklisting of a complete ISP. There they also have a system for dutch-wide anti-virus: VirBL http://virbl.bit.nl/ I am pretty sure that they (BIT et all) are willing to cooperate with you folks on setting something similar up for Swiss providers and most likely also to exchange lists to make it beneficial in usage. For that matter, what about a big Inter-NOG, thus Swiss, Dutch, German, Austrian, Italian, French, Polish etc ISP's all coming together in a place with an ample amount of beer and other such things!? They call that NANOG in the US can it be done in Europe? This would just move the source of the problem to another point - but would not help solve the problem: SPAM. The current way is really only: SpamAssassin. At least it limits the spam coming into your mailbox. You can't control the whole Internet, thus you can't control SPAM. As long as there is $$$ to be earned spammers will exist, whatever trick they will use, they will get spam to stupid people who will buy their products or get tricked into giving out their account information. A next step which might be going to work quite well is DKIM. Both Yahoo and Gmail are already using and many ISP's are following. Greets, Jeroen signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: AW: [swinog] Whitelist website
Of course, but you got the hostname wrong. It's http://dnswl.swinog.ch aka http://antispam.imp.ch/swinog-dnsrbl-whitelist But not only Swiss Mailservers, this would be a bit useless :-) And of course there is also dnswl.org ;-) [Note that dnswl.org data also includes the Swinog whitelist, updated (ir)regularly.] -- Matthias (one of [EMAIL PROTECTED]) ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
