Re: [OSM-talk] Automated Edit - Bus stops status link & Bus lines timetable link (Tenerife)
Will do however this operation is geographically limited, so the author must ask the local community for their agreement, and not a global one ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automated Edit - Bus stops status link & Bus lines timetable link (Tenerife)
Sorry about that. I was just mentioning this another source of the information. But I am actuall proposing the regular QR code links, not these Ajax ones. On 26/03/2023 18:41, Sören Reinecke wrote: I speak about e.g. https[https://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_parada=4004]://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_[https://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_parada=4004]parada[https://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_parada=4004]=4004[https://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_parada=4004] (the ajax interface) Mar 26, 2023 19:39:13 Marc_marc : Le 26.03.23 à 18:39, Sören Reinecke a écrit : the resources behind these urls are in a machine readable format did you click on the link or are you talking theory? I don't see how a link intended for the general public could be "machine-only readable" content in any case when I click on it, I understand perfectly the content of https://movil.titsa.com/infoparada.php?IdParada=4004 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automated Edit - Bus stops status link & Bus lines timetable link (Tenerife)
Le 26.03.23 à 20:33, john whelan a écrit : Why would we need to have permission from the local mappers to do this? it's in the guideline of automated/mechanical edit : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct#Document_and_discuss_your_plans if your edit *affects only one country or territory*, then standard communication methods for the territory affected by the change - typically *national-language mailing lists or forums* Regards, Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automated Edit - Bus stops status link & Bus lines timetable link (Tenerife)
I'm lost here. We have something in the map and we can associate a website with it. Why would we need to have permission from the local mappers to do this? I note locally our bus stops have a reference that does much the same thing but I don't recall having to canvas local mappers about it. On a personal note anything that makes catching a bus easier has my vote. Cheerio John On Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 12:08 Marc_marc wrote: > On Fri, 2023-03-24 at 20:33 +0100, Sören Reinecke wrote: > >> If these urls are following a fixed scheme like you mentioned then I > >> see no need to add the urls > > if the url is stable (and this seems to be the case as it is hard-coded > in the QR-code), i see an added value to be able to get > the webpage from the stop. > > due the fact that the default relation isn't really in use, > the advantages (having the information from the osm data) outweigh > the disadvantages (having to delete or update the urls if they change > unexpectedly) > > however this operation is geographically limited, so the author must > ask the local community for their agreement, and not a global one > > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automated Edit - Bus stops status link & Bus lines timetable link (Tenerife)
I speak about e.g. https[https://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_parada=4004]://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_[https://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_parada=4004]parada[https://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_parada=4004]=4004[https://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_parada=4004] (the ajax interface) Mar 26, 2023 19:39:13 Marc_marc : > Le 26.03.23 à 18:39, Sören Reinecke a écrit : >> the resources behind these urls are in a machine readable format > > did you click on the link or are you talking theory? > I don't see how a link intended for the general public could be > "machine-only readable" content > in any case when I click on it, I understand perfectly the content > of https://movil.titsa.com/infoparada.php?IdParada=4004 > > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automated Edit - Bus stops status link & Bus lines timetable link (Tenerife)
Le 26.03.23 à 18:39, Sören Reinecke a écrit : the resources behind these urls are in a machine readable format did you click on the link or are you talking theory? I don't see how a link intended for the general public could be "machine-only readable" content in any case when I click on it, I understand perfectly the content of https://movil.titsa.com/infoparada.php?IdParada=4004 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automated Edit - Bus stops status link & Bus lines timetable link (Tenerife)
Data customers need to do it anyway because the resources behind these urls are in a machine readable format specified to the public transportation agency. So for each country/agency developers need to write a specified parser. There is a internationalized machine readable format for digital pt timetables but I doubt GTFS is behind these urls. Mar 26, 2023 16:50:41 Cj Malone : > On Fri, 2023-03-24 at 20:33 +0100, Sören Reinecke wrote: >> If these urls are following a fixed scheme like you mentioned then I >> see no need to add the urls. There is no need to store them if you >> can create them from a combination of the hard coded [url] and a >> variable part retrieved by reading the value of the "ref" osm >> key > > I used to agree with this, but we can't expect OSM consumers to do this > all over the globe, especially when it's not documented anywhere. I > support adding the URLs. > > CJ > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automated Edit - Bus stops status link & Bus lines timetable link (Tenerife)
On Fri, 2023-03-24 at 20:33 +0100, Sören Reinecke wrote: If these urls are following a fixed scheme like you mentioned then I see no need to add the urls if the url is stable (and this seems to be the case as it is hard-coded in the QR-code), i see an added value to be able to get the webpage from the stop. due the fact that the default relation isn't really in use, the advantages (having the information from the osm data) outweigh the disadvantages (having to delete or update the urls if they change unexpectedly) however this operation is geographically limited, so the author must ask the local community for their agreement, and not a global one ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automated Edit - Bus stops status link & Bus lines timetable link (Tenerife)
On Fri, 2023-03-24 at 20:33 +0100, Sören Reinecke wrote: > If these urls are following a fixed scheme like you mentioned then I > see no need to add the urls. There is no need to store them if you > can create them from a combination of the hard coded [url] and a > variable part retrieved by reading the value of the "ref" osm > key I used to agree with this, but we can't expect OSM consumers to do this all over the globe, especially when it's not documented anywhere. I support adding the URLs. CJ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automated Edit - Bus stops status link & Bus lines timetable link (Tenerife)
>> This scripts exist already, and were writtenmultiple times already >> one more would not change much >> > > @Mateusz: Any help regarding the script would be greatly appreciated. I > have worked with databases before (PostgreSQL, MySQL, SAS) and am aware > of the pitfalls. > > > Best, Klaus > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny_-_bot_account#Active_tasks lists my bot edits, what includes source code ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automated Edit - Bus stops status link & Bus lines timetable link (Tenerife)
See below ... On 24/03/2023 21:33, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: Mar 24, 2023, 20:40 by valin...@gmx.net: What do you think about this idea? What would be the best way to achieve this in an automated way? If these urls are following a fixed scheme like you mentioned then I see no need to add the urls. There is no need to store them if you can create them from a combination of the hard coded Well, as template for links is not present then it is not a good reason against it. I would be more concerned whether links will be stable or change format soon. I also don't quite understand the reasoning against such a generic web link. The only way to obtain that link would be through the QR code at the bus stop, which is an obstacle. Not even the website actually has this information on a separate page, but only through a popup clicking onto the station. And I think it would greatly improve the usefulness of the bus stop nodes in the map. Same is true for the bus line links. Why search through the Titsa website to gain this information when it can readily be associated with the node. If I click onto a restaurant or hotel and get their website, that's not different, is it? I wouldn't go though Google to find such information. It requires knowledge how databases work in general, why normalization & abstraction is important and at last you need to be developer. OSM map database is not normalized (at least as far as tags are concerned) is actually a good thing as it an obstacle to not make it too easy for "children" (in double quotes for reasons) and protects us from edit spaming. this really could be phrased better without making it insulting and it does not really protect as strongly, though maybe it could be worse This is the reason why I currently abstain from writing a python3 script to make it easier to write editing bots. This scripts exist already, and were written multiple times already one more would not change much @Mateusz: Any help regarding the script would be greatly appreciated. I have worked with databases before (PostgreSQL, MySQL, SAS) and am aware of the pitfalls. Best, Klaus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automated Edit - Bus stops status link & Bus lines timetable link (Tenerife)
Mar 24, 2023, 20:40 by valin...@gmx.net: > > >> What do you think about this idea? What would be the best way to achieve >> this in an automated way?>> >> > > If these urls are following a fixed scheme like you mentioned then I see no > need to add the urls. There is no need to store them if you can create them > from a combination of the hard coded > Well, as template for links is not present then it is not a good reason against it. I would be more concerned whether links will be stable or change format soon. > It requires knowledge how databases work in general, why normalization & > abstraction is important and at last you need to be developer. > OSM map database is not normalized (at least as far as tags are concerned) > is actually a good thing as it an obstacle to not make it too easy for > "children" (in double quotes for reasons) and protects us from edit spaming. > this really could be phrased better without making it insulting and it does not really protect as strongly, though maybe it could be worse > This is the reason why I currently abstain from writing a python3 script to > make it easier to write editing bots.> > This scripts exist already, and were written multiple times already one more would not change much ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automated Edit - Bus stops status link & Bus lines timetable link (Tenerife)
> What do you think about this idea? What would be the best way to achieve this > in an automated way? If these urls are following a fixed scheme like you mentioned then I see no need to add the urls. There is no need to store them if you can create them from a combination of the hard coded > " > https[https://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_parada=4004]://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_[https://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_parada=4004]parada[https://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_parada=4004]=[https://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_parada=4004] " and a variable part retrieved by reading the value of the "ref" osm key > I know the Overpass API and I could probably readily identify all the > relevant bus stop nodes and bus line relations. However, I have never > updated such things in an automated way. It requires knowledge how databases work in general, why normalization & abstraction is important and at last you need to be developer. There is a way with JOSM, saving as JOSM session file, adding the website key using python3, opening JOSM session file and uploading to OSM. But I think no reliable method. For me personally it would be easier to use the OSM Editing API (not the same as Overpass) to create new changesets assigned to node/way/relation id containing all previous tags + the one to add. If you're not a developer, just a mapper who can do editing and using Overpass, then do not touch that topic without guidance. There is no official guidance or template to do this which is actually a good thing as it an obstacle to not make it too easy for "children" (in double quotes for reasons) and protects us from edit spaming. This is the reason why I currently abstain from writing a python3 script to make it easier to write editing bots. Mar 24, 2023 13:49:25 facebook_140f8d4e-9d8f-4d51-a5a7-320f53afc...@vollbio.de: > Hi there > > I would like to update all bus stops on the island of Tenerife with a link to > the status website of upcoming connections to this bus stop: > * > An example of bus stop: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1147359056 * > Each such bus stop inhibits a reference: ref=4004 * > This reference can be used to obtain that bus stops upcoming connections: http://movil.titsa.com/infoparada.php?IdParada=4004 * > Actually, in reality each bus stop has a QR code to check this status, which leads to the latter website. * > Hence, all these QR codes are spread across the island, I assume the link will seldomly change. * > There is also an Ajax link: https://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_parada=4004 (But thats directly from the website and probably not that stable as the former one). > > I think, this link would be good to have with each bus stop for Tenerife on > OSM, so one can easily derive the upcoming departure times, even when not > being nearby the bus stop. > > > > Furthermore each bus line on the island has a timetable available online, > that I would like to link for each bus line: > * > An example bus line: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7165110 * > Each such bis line inhibits a reference code: ref=419 * > This reference can be used to obtain that bus lines timestable and overview website: https://titsa.com/index.php/tus-guaguas/lineas-y-horarios/linea-419 * > An alternative link is this: https://movil.titsa.com/infolinea.php?IdLinea=021 (But I guess, it is less useful and does not immediately display the general times.) > > Also these links would be good to have with each bus line. > > > > What do you think about this idea? What would be the best way to achieve this > in an automated way? > > I know the Overpass API and I could probably readily identify all the > relevant bus stop nodes and bus line relations. However, I have never > updated such things in an automated way. > > Many thanks > > Klaus > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Automated Edit - Bus stops status link & Bus lines timetable link (Tenerife)
Hi there I would like to update all bus stops on the island of Tenerife with a link to the status website of upcoming connections to this bus stop: * An example of bus stop: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1147359056 * Each such bus stop inhibits a reference: ref=4004 * This reference can be used to obtain that bus stops upcoming connections: http://movil.titsa.com/infoparada.php?IdParada=4004 * Actually, in reality each bus stop has a QR code to check this status, which leads to the latter website. * Hence, all these QR codes are spread across the island, I assume the link will seldomly change. * There is also an Ajax link: https://titsa.com/ajax/xGetInfoParada.php?id_parada=4004 (But thats directly from the website and probably not that stable as the former one). I think, this link would be good to have with each bus stop for Tenerife on OSM, so one can easily derive the upcoming departure times, even when not being nearby the bus stop. Furthermore each bus line on the island has a timetable available online, that I would like to link for each bus line: * An example bus line: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7165110 * Each such bis line inhibits a reference code: ref=419 * This reference can be used to obtain that bus lines timestable and overview website: https://titsa.com/index.php/tus-guaguas/lineas-y-horarios/linea-419 * An alternative link is this: https://movil.titsa.com/infolinea.php?IdLinea=021 (But I guess, it is less useful and does not immediately display the general times.) Also these links would be good to have with each bus line. What do you think about this idea? What would be the best way to achieve this in an automated way? I know the Overpass API and I could probably readily identify all the relevant bus stop nodes and bus line relations. However, I have never updated such things in an automated way. Many thanks Klaus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
